JUNKYARD 8.1L CAM TEST. STOCK VS ZZ502-REAL DYNO DATA. HOW MUCH HP IS A ZZ502 CAM WORTH IN A GEN 7?
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- Опубліковано 5 кві 2023
- HOW TO SWAP AN 8.1L CAM! CAN I RUN A GEN 6 454 CAM IN MY GEN 7 496? HOW MUCH POWER IS A CAM SWAP WORTH ON MY BIG BLOCK CHEVY? DOES THE GEN 7 8.1L RESPOND WELL TO A CAM UPGRADE? HOW MUCH POWER IS A ZZ502 CAM SWAP WORTH ON A GEN 7 8.1L? SHOULD I SWAP THE CAM IN MY GEN 7 8.1L? THESE QUESTIONS ARE ALL ANSWERED IN THIS VIDEO DETAILING A CAM SWP ON AN 8.1L, GEN-7 496 BIG BLOCK CHEVY. I GO STEP BY STEP ON HOW TO SWAP THE CAM AND HOW TO UPGRADE THE SPRINGS FOR THE CAM. FULL DYNO RESULTS ARE PROVIDED AS ALWAYS.
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I love seeing the early d580 LS1 coil packs on the 8.1. It was born to be a performance motor.
582 Richard, not 482. I had to go back and rewind this to make sure I wasn't seeing/hearing something funky, lol. AWESOME to see that cam not giving up a bunch of torque down low!
I was like whoa wait a minute am I hearing him wrong or seeing it wrong😂
Ya had me confused lol. Rewind 3 times
@@thomaselliott4246 😆 🤣 me too
Thanks for clearing that up for me cause i thought was tripping lol
i know. nearly 600 ft lbs with a nearly stock motor. sure its the engine dyno and no accessories but you're still looking at 500+ with that stuff on it. all of it down low where its useful. what a beast of a truck motor.
Good to see the 8.1 getting some love .
These things just never got the attention they deserved . Can't wait to see what a decent manifold can do .
I hope they never do. The price will skyrocket, I don't think it'll ever start a fire like the 5.3 Ls engines did in the past. So, that's good news.
They won’t.
@@kensmechanicalaffair9i
@@denisemorgan9963 wut
Alot of the big name generator manufacturers use gm engines now ,they kinda switched over around 2000 from mostly fords.
It was kinda rare to see Chevy power but there was some.
Psi engines has licensing for the 8.1 ,the center bolt valve cover 5.7 and 5.0 and the 4.3 v6 and the 3.0 4cyl.
They used the 8.1 up to 100kw or so, and a turbo version for up to 130kw.
Now a turboed 5.7 has replaced the na8.1 in the last couple years, its rated 175hp at 1800 which is damn impressive.
Displacement = happiness, prove me wrong
Considering happiness is a matter of perspective it'll probably be hard. Personally Ive never found a piston engine that can put a bigger smile on my face that my peripheral port 13B & ive driven everything from 7 second drag build to time attack builds with cantilever suspension but again it's a personal preference thing. Have a good one 🤙
@JDMmike gotta agree with you. Watching rotors destroy pistons always fun. My two favorite engines are Mazda rotary anything and the Pontiac Ram Air V/VI
@@hoost3056rotarys tend to destroy themselves.
@@HioSSilver1999 Only if you don't know what your doing. Most all of the false rumors about rotary's come from guys used to piston engines tuning them like piston engines and blowing them up. The Series 4 13B in my MX-5 was built in 2015 and it runs just as good as the day I first fired it up. Puts down 457whp and has never given me an issue because I have an overbuilt cooling system & do oil changes correctly, which most owners didn't. My new peripheral port 13B in my EXOCET is putting out 561whp and while a recent build it's running amazing. I tell guys who wanna get into rotary's to pretty much forget everything you know about piston engines.
@@hoost3056I have to agree with you as well, Pontiac is definitely my favorite GM division. My uncle has a 2000 Trans-Am WS6 that we swapped a turbo LS3 into and it is such a fun car to drive. I also like messing with the C3 lovers about how Chevy robbed the design from Pontiac who built The Banshee XP-833 in '64 but when GM brass saw it was going to compete with the Vette they killed the project and lo & behold in '68 Chevy comes out with pretty much the same car with some different headlights and taillights LMAO.
Thank you for going back to these videos sir
thanks for the step by step instructions and thorough explanations of the entire swap
Good information thanks for sharing
Thanks Richard! I know the Facebook 8.1 groups are super excited for this!
Been sitting on an 8.1 build for a H2 Hummer for over a year now..this video has definitely got excited to finish tearing down the block!
Crazy how he makes awesome car content then boats now planes and it’s all enjoyable to watch
You make these videos fun to watch. You have a great sense of humor!
thnx
Been waiting for this video for months.
Thank you so much for making this video!
One hell of an engine! Gm knows the facts too hahaha...."There is no replacement for displacement" Good video Richard. Thank You for spending time with the 8.1
I want a cam in my 8.1! I want that torque! Surprised how well that cam liked the engine, almost like it was the cam they should have had from the start
Careful the stock torque converter on the L18 is only cleared to 450hp. The torque management software prevents poping the converter. Anything above 500 will warp the interior from over power until it begins slur shifting, then quits. Just looking out, lots of torque tends to rip up transmissions starting at the converter.
@@joshuaelizabethfoster6276 thanks for the tip! I was going to have the trans rebuilt when I do get around to the engine (truck does have 225k on the odometer so I'm sure that won't be the only thing needing some attention), It will be a while before I get around to it, still working on a project 76 chev, but I will take the advice and upgrade the converter with the rebuild.
I can't wait wait to see part 2 ,3,4 & part 5 tunnel ram with turbos !!!!
Big Block fun with Richard!! It looks like that intake weights 50lbs! I thought aluminum was lite lol. Great video as always!! Thanks Richard!!
Thank you Richard.
I never knew there was a newer generation of these , interested to see part 2
If you ask GM the 8.1 is still a Gen 6 BBC, it's just due to all the differences that enthusiasts call them a Gen 6.5 or 7
I wish we got those things down here in Australia! They'd be the ultimate performance base.... uh... I mean utilitarian workhorse 😅
Y'all got Barra power and boss 5.4's, so quit your damn whining!!!😅
@@Prestiged_peck not to mention we got 351 Cleveland's up until 1985... yeah I'll stop complaining haha.
The 8.1 was also in boats, busses, 3 ton trucks (box trucks like U-Haul) and a few other things. If you get lucky you might be able to find one if you know where to look
Well, I have a new ZZ502 cam. Now just need a 8.1 and they aren't as cheap a 5.3!
Plus, we need more aftermarket parts!
Thank you for this
Correction needed at 13:23 - you wrote and said 482.5 ft/lbs for the gen 6 cam, graph showed 582 ft/lbs.
I have a 2008 winnebago voyage motor home. BTW 2008 IS THE LAST YEAR GM PRODUCED THESE 8.1L FOR RV'S, Anyway it has the 8.1L and the Allison MH2100 great combo!!
Finally a regular length video! 😂
finally a regular length comment
@@richardholdener1727 i know you're being a smartass in your reply, but i DO love your content . I just don't have time for the 1 hour live sessions you do. so yea I'm legitimately excited for a shorter "results" video.
Agree. Can't do the hour long ones
LT's engine of choice. It's nuts his Gen 7 makes over 1000 lb-ft with factory internals. Can't wait till he builds the billet Gen 7 for his new project. Keep up the great work Rich 🤙
Pushing "weak" factory internals it's OK for shits and giggles and bragging rights.
But after watching what happened to Nivlac57's dad it's not worth it when you start to push it.
They completely lost a nice track car and his dad got pretty banged up.
I wouldn't say weak at all. these engine are made in the same era as Gen6 stuff. They used the same materials for both gen 6 and 7. I know bc I'm building both engines currently. As we have seen already, Richard has ran a gen6 with turbos well into 4 digit category without a hickup. Needles to say, we really don't need that much on the street for driveability's sake. Anything under 1000 ain't gonna hurt those internals.
@@GIGABACHI While I agree with you that was a very bad accident, I was extremely concerned while I was watching the live stream on Tom Bailey's channel, that was an odd freak accident & Calvin even said so. They've run WAY more boost on those rods than what it was seeing when it blew. Plus you can't really put the internals of a Gen 7 big block in the same category as an Atlas/Vortec 4200. One was built for very heavy loads seen in large capacity towing while the other simply isn't.
I love this engine!!! This is my blue eyed angel 😇 😘
Dang !! I almost thought I'd be first !
V6's a lot older came from the factory with at least roller fulcrum rocker arms - can't believe the 8.1's didn't
All cams are better with boost lol
Richard great work
That’s what I call a win win :p eazzy power
Boost will make this upgraded motor sooo much better!
They had every chance to finally cast the block so that the timing cover had a complete sealing surface all the way around...but of course....
This is so rad!!! I'm dropping g a 8.1 in my 84 c10 and wanted to came it with some head work. This helps alot thanks. Does this cam have a nice lope at idle? I found a Comp cam xtream energy 46-413-9. But I want these numbers lol I'll just have to find a shop locally to fix my firing order.
In Part 2, intake modifications, please describe/show modification made to the interior of manifold. The areas removed along with any porting.
@AMOS GARCIA did the intake mods
Randy, thanks for reply; hope to get specifics of how Amos Garcia did his manifold modifications. New to 8.1, mine is 09 block, I think w/Allison. Less then 50K miles.
Definitely a “full grown” intake manifold, reminds me of my FE Ford…a real pain. Thank god for aluminum!
Put that motor with cam in a 85 K2500 Suburban with a 4L65 trans and 4.10 gear and 35 inch tires. Ultimate off road machine
For about 5 min. Till it pukes the transmission. That monster needs a built 4l80E.
35s need a 4.88 gear.
Great video as always Richard. I was wondering how you determine the shine pack thickness?
to achieve the desired installed height and seat pressure on the springs
Nice
Yes!
Great to see more Dyno testing! I have a low mileage 8.1L I’m putting into my airstream motorhome, how big can you with a stock firing order cam with the factory computer so I don’t think I can change the firing order.
you have to tune it any way get a microsquirt and save your self issues and a bad motor diyauto tune what nice is one can hook any old android tablet or radio as a dash runs full tuning set up to so sweet stuff unlike the big names with 1200 screens
Great information on a street big block, how much cam before you start giving something up on the low end?
Great video, finally some real data on the 8.1! I ended up with a Raylar cam with very similar specs in mine - except 116 degree LSA instead of the 110 degree LSA of the ZZ502 and a bit less intake valve lift. I couldn't believe (and don't understand) how much more knock resistant the engine was with the updated cam - it seemed to like 2-3 degrees than where I was running into knock with the stock cam. Did you see the same with the ZZ502?
Looking forward to the intake test, and based on your dyno curve my 4400 rpm WOT shiftpoint left over from the stock cam is probably leaving a lot on the table.
Performance cams will generally reduce knock as they reduce dynamic compression by having an increased valve overlap interval. Dynamic compression is what effective compression is left after the valves are done closing when the piston is on the way up to TDC on the compression stroke.
Glad to see this one back on the dyno. Modded intake will be worth a bit more, but the top end won't change till those heads get replaced. When are you going to take Raylar up on their offer to test all the parts and pieces that make these motors RPM?
THE HEADS ARE NOT WHAT IS HOLDING BACK RPM
@@richardholdener1727 what is? ZZ502 is about as big as you can go before you're replacing pistons. Are you planning to cam the thing to the moon on stock heads with a forged bottom end?
So glad to see the dust blown off this ol tug boat engine
Another thing that really has to be kept in mind is whether it be Ford Chevy Dodge BMW Audi whoever the manufacturer maybe it's the precision in the build. And honestly horsepower per cubic inch.. whether it be overhead cam or LS at 496 cubic inches we should be making well over 400 stock, the motors amazing and strong compared to newer stuff I think it's the heads that are so bad and the mild Cam that is keeping power down so much
the 8.1l was not designed by the engineers for maximum power-if that was the case-it would be different
I would really like to see you run a few of the cams Raylar offers, as a comparison.
Raylar 👌
I need this in my 5th gen camaro asap
My dream is to have this engine in my Brazilian Silverado, here we use the 4.1 inline 6. I dream of buying an 8.1 V8 and putting it in it... one day I can do it!
Is that the atlas?
@@corvetteZ3r Here in Brazil this engine is very strong, with a turbo and a few more performance improvements... but it doesn't compare to a big block v8 496 8.1 engine... the v8 496 8.1 has the original 340 horsepower, my 4.1 inline has 138 original horses.
I am running 8.1 2003 with dart 2 intake msd ignition and atomic efi stock manifolds 3inch dual exhaust proflow bottle stile 150 sniper nose kit it likes it
If you want some weird 8.1 stuff, I'm currently building one with a gen 4 comparable cam, this will change the engine from roller to flat tappet. It also changes the firing order. It's getting gen 6 valve springs, and a double roller under that aluminum timing cover (needed clearance). Along with a weiand intake that can accept a regular deck distributor, and carb. Ballin on a budget.
How are you making the weiand intake work with the symmetrical port heads?
@@trentparker5223 it's the aftermarket 8.1 intake they offered for the 496. I know dart makes a dual plain manifold too (I had to use an open because the intake pulses on the dual wouldn't work with the cam swap).
Intersting!Interesting!! I'm a chic who love love loves the 8.1 and I just can't get enough and am interested in all things chevy!! Before my last 2 8.1's I loved the good Ole 454's but I can't rave enough about the 8.1 but it's all perfect back k Ed with the Allison transmission 🤩🥰
Please update with your project as I'd love to know how she turns out!!
Part number on that intake?
Richard please get with Raylar and test their cams. That 502 cam seems great but I have yet to find a good break down on Raylar cams. If u did it we would know it's legit and not some guy in his garage making up numbers.
My lifter just failed on my 8.1 taking out a cam lobe, looks like its time for a comp cams 206/212 and tune!!!
Hey Richard, can you post the spring specs and/or part numbers you used?
Thought they were gonna break out the pitchforks earlier when the other video dropped first 😂
they were ready to storm the castle
WE WANT BOOST !
WE WANT BOOST !
He did a video last year with boost on the 8.1
Preach!
Boost boost boost !!!!!! 🔥🤘🏼🤘🏼
I'd love to see you play with a late EFI 460. I know they are incredibly lean in stock form and between headers and more fuel, they have a fair bit of untapped potential.
omg the 8.1Liter... i have one, i regret it now that gas is insane.. 9 Mpg flat, 12 with a tail wind down hill.. even off throttle going down the rockies it maxed out at 25 mpg... lot's of torque and power, but will drink you out of house an home on the gasoline.
Vortec 8100 is the God's of V8!!
What valve springs did you use, im rebuilding my 8.1 and was thinking about replicating this to help with towing
Please tell me we’re gonna see how much boost this thing is going to take at some point!
Yay
Yeeyee
The ZZ502 cam has 224/234 duration @ 0.050" (~278/289 @ .006"), 110 LSA, and 0.527/0.544" lift. Can you try a cam with the same (or less) duration, 0.600" lift and 105* LSA?
Wait but that cam swap 502 brought the torque down. I liked the numbers on the stock cam better, torque was 546.7!!!! Horsepower was 422, less but still great. Although the 502 cam put out 464HP, Torque went down 😢 to 482.5. BUT WAIT THAT WAS A TYPE-0. I think you ment "582.5" 😜😃😃😃😃. Beautiful set up, you scared me there for a moment.
YES-582
Put a bigger 600lift cam with the dart carb intake on that 8.1 with a 850 carb. And watch out people
What is the lift going to do?
I got one in my suburban and after seeing stock numbers and how much work that was I’m just going to leave it alone so my wife can drive it ..
It is mind bending how much that aluminium intake weighs
I envision this torque curve then coupled to a big ass single whirley bird to increase that top end...
coming
Just picked up a Gen VI 7.4 core crate engine with broken cam. Plan on rebuilding for use in an old C60 dump truck and am wondering what is the most cost effective and reliable replacement. It had hydraulic flat tappets but does have the tapped boss for the spider so looks like roller upgrade is possible. I guess used spider and dog bones could keep costs down, is there a reliable and more importantly available replacement stock roller lifter/cam combo?
If not what other cams can be used with this generation block? I dont mind adjusting valves so a solid flat tappet would also work if I can get one. Being a few miles from the quarry I doubt the old truck will get more than 50 miles a year.
Thanks for all the info you put out, really helps us engine nerds with no dyno at our disposal. Keep up the good work!!!!
you can get a gen 6 cam and lifter assembly from a junkyard
I put the lifter from my 8.1 into my gen VI 7.4 truck. They use the same lifters
Needs even more cam
Big blocks get my blood a flowing!
Too bad you couldn't keep the LS firing order. If for no other reason than for the sound. This should be a nice little series.
I thought that cam removal was on repeat, dam it seemed long.
390 intakes where always fun…
More sbf please
the wideband on the dyno costs more than the engine cam and ecm combined
Awesome Rich did you flow these heads
see previous vids
Hypothetically, this should improve highway fuel economy
doubtful
Hey Richard, Do you have valve spring spec?
😏oh yeah,😯 ooh ooh ooh,Big block....yeah, umm hmm 😏,yeah yeah 🤤.......
Mo Powah Baby
Richard can you see the map signal in the Data of this run and see what the kpa did as the rpm went up ?
Wondering with stock intake and throttle body at what rpm it started becoming a restriction
this had a ported intake and bigger tb
@@richardholdener1727 nah that was next round lol first round with cam was before the famous Amos super dooper intake 🤣
Early in the video when you showed the AFR of 14.1, you said that was lean and brought it to 12.1. what exactly am I missing here? If it were lamda I can understand the decimal being placed 1 spot off, but 1.41 down to 1.21 would still be lean yeah?
THE MOTOR IDLED BETTER AT 12.1
Hay do a build on the ford Godzilla pushrod engine they are put in pickup trucks or change your name to Chevy Holdener
Chevy Holdener with 1000+ videos on Other Motors-swing and a miss!
Would love to see a carb on it
I have a carb vid coming
That carb intake...1 choice big money!
Where you find a 502 boss in junk yard I wanna search for one as well
8.0 dodge magnum v10 comparison?
Can you use the previous gen style headers on the 8.1? I’ve got a hold of one for a swap, will be my first big block.. I know nearly nothing about them. I the intakes are not interchangeable
yes-we just used normal BBC headers
Where can you get the valve springs and shims?
Does anyone make a camshaft like the Summit Racing Big Nasty for the Gen 3 (4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L) LS engines for the 8.1 Vortec? Obviously, the 8.1 does not need any help producing torque. Just curious. It would be really nice if a camshaft could be made to allow for more rpms (such as one that tops out at 6500rpm just below the Summit Cam mentioned for the gen LS engines) A 5.3L LS with a camshaft like the Summit Big Nasty tops out at around 6500rpm to just under 7000rpm. For a big tire 4x4 build using the 8.1 at 6500rpm would be ideal.
Tell me, how can we call- from 546.7 ft.lbs to 482.5 ft.lbs- an increase? That looks like a decrease to me.
It's an 8.1L, gotta run it down to 1000RPM 😂
It's hard finding a good cam swap for towing when almost everyone shows info from 2500RPM and up 😂
500rpm even.
zz502 cam is not for towing below 2000 it is buckingham palace
@@DarkLinkAD dyno charts have it making 400lb-ft by 1000RPM, so if you really wanted to, it probably would actually make some torque at idle 😂
@@dennisperry8579 Yeah some old specs for buses have an 8.1 making 450ftlb at 500rpms IIRC. I can see how its possible, All the older LTs used to make peak near peak at 1500-2000 and those are 5.7s
You know what, there's no replacement then displacement but there is, more displacement! 😂😂😂
What springs did u use for the swap.
I love seeing these dynos but it kind of makes me laugh when my bone stock 21 F150 with a stupid ecoboost 3.5 makes more HP and TQ with just a tune. I know its a lame comparison but gotta love technology.
Richard, you removed the factory oil pump drive. Do you reuse the same drive with the 502 cam ? I was wondering because I don't have any knowledge of the 8.1 bbc.
Yes.
Yes the only difference between the 8.1 cam and a gen 6 cam is firing order and the bolt pitch on the cam gear.
Was the cam a gen6 or gen5 you installed? You initially called the 8.1 a gen 7 then when you replaced the cam you said you were replacing gen 6 cam with a gen 5 cam.
Every Gen five had a flat tappet cam in it.. so that should answer your question lol
Rich I would really love to touch base with you I am building this exact motor it already has a Raylar cam but I'm looking to do some different things. I honestly have just a bunch of simple questions from spark plugs two heads intake xcetera I have a junkyard motor that I can pick up and bring right to the machine shop. So any input would be greatly greatly appreciated
ask away-join the live feeds
Hey rich the comments arw cut ofd in the car conversion 8.1 video do u know the deck height with that intake im interested in swapping one in my 55 bel air
deck height of the block or how high the intake is?