Hi Simon, this is certainly intriguing tech from Canon!! Having such a jump in dynamic range looks awesome .. but there may also be some downsides given each metering area has its own exposure meaning its own 'local ISO' value (because having a difference in aperture or shutter speed per area would show asap). So this tech will rule out manual ISO mode, which will only be acceptable when the jump is dynamic range is so significant the loss of control over ISO is quickly forgotten. When my math is right, a 1" sensor has 2.72 crop factor .. so this proto sensor actually has the same pixel density as a 93.7mp FF sensor. Does this also sound as R1 in your ears ???
This on a production mirrorless is all pie in the sky, at least for now, you can see from the image it is about function over quality, all parts of the image being identifiable and usable, but without the need for high-quality imaging and colour accuracy... You can get similar results, but not the dynamic range, out of some R cameras if you really push them... I think you have to be careful with HDR as an aesthetic, some of it looks awful, and it needs to be used carefully! I seldom run into DR range issues, but it will never hurt to have more to use if you need it.
The reason processing on the sensor die hasn't really been done, is the heat from on die processors causes noise in on die sensors. Perhaps this is why Canon is focusing on security applications where noise doesn't really matter as much, unless they've found a way to beat the heat.
It's just about time, any way it's done, to get computational photography in the DSLRs. I will make them super powerful and take photography to the next level a level that is is going with further technological advances along with software and AI advances. Our tools (cameras) need to keep pace or they will not be used or replaced.
Notice how we are seeing the computational capabilities first appear in the low end cameras ;) Looking to see what else they bring out in future cameras.
Great technical explanation Simon, thank you! Sounds like their high dynamic range will start in industrial applications and trickle down into their EOS range, but maybe not next cycle of releases. Canon will certainly reset the bar with the R5 MkII and R1 with innovation/performance - exciting times!
I think we will see about 15.5 to 16 stops on the R52, but computational capabilities have started with the R8 and R50. I don't expect 24 stops, but a few extra stops will make a difference.
About time Canon has been way behind on dynamic range for years. Sony has been pimp slapping them with wider dynamic range but I sold my Sony a73 because the menu is horrible. Even if Canon came out with a camera with 15 or 16 stops it be way better than what they have now.
Simon, I knew it was clickbait, and I clicked anyway. I tend to think that the R5II won't change the dynamic range much. I think the resolution bump will be the main feature in the new camera I am thinking it will be more of a minor upgrade like the R6 Mark II. the R5 and R6 were such a jump from there R and the RP I don't think this will be that much of a jump.
If they go BSI as Canon Rumours says it could, that will improve low light performance. I wonder if there is anything in this sensor that could find its way to the R52... its less clikbaity if you consider the how basic sensor building blocks could be added to the R52 sensor like Apple has done in the M1. Imagine if Canon had cores that would process exposure better ;) Or encode pro res 422 ;)
Funny I was recently thinking about exactly this technology as a leap in quality. No exposure as a whole, but seperated in segments. Nice to see Canon doing it first. Others will have no choice but to follow suit.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker Yes, but the Nikon Sensor can do that at 1000fps, while the Canon is only 60fps.There is always a trade-off between different characteristics.
A little, but I was looking for a way to make the story more interesting. New sensor announcements and patent filings can give us an idea of what is to come.
even though r5 mk2 is showing bizarre new function and technology, the expection of the R1 is far more than what we can thinking🥶and the price of the r1 is even more difficult to expect
I discussed the underlying technology of the sensor, how we might see aspects of this sensor in the R52 and what we would likely see I'm low light improvements in dynamic range.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker I know what you discussed. I watched it. The info is not the issue, it’s the implication in the title. You CERTAINLY aren’t the only person who does this so please don’t take it too much to heart. But it’s a bit bothersome when you’re waiting to hear how it applies to the relevant tech (ie actual cameras) and it doesn’t.
25 stops is 1 more as average dynamic range of human sight. Because it’s logarithmic, each stop more doubles sensitive, it is double of human vision. That would be the perfect landscape camera, never more exposure blending.
Canon does not have a cinema camera nearly close to these specs, nobody does. I doubt they would introduce this tech in a consumer level camera, so the odds of this appearing in R5ii is zero.
ehhh I'm not buying it, if the new Alexa maxs out at 17 true stops of dynamic range than I doubt Canon could even scratch the back of that level of performance in a SLR style camera. Maybe in a C series camera combined with there Dual Gain setup could break 20 but even then that feels like a stretch and would probably be inflated for sales.
It’s a new technology, so why not? Technology moves forward, improves, and changes over time. I believe the c300 MkIII is using similar technology as the Alexa which has been around awhile.
The image (singular, because that's all there is on the web as far as I know) coming from this sensor doesn't inspire much confidence. Don't get me wrong, I believe we might see a similar approach in camera sensors in the future but certainly not in the very near one. It may take some time for this tech to mature and by then we might reach ~20 stops with traditional means. Going beyond what even the human eye can capture is very appealing though so I'm curious to see more info on this technology
I can't possibly fathom that IF this technology was scaleable to a common- sized sensor -and that's a big IF-that they would put it in anything other than a flagship cine camera (eg: a c700 Mk II, etc).
I know this is about the Canon R5 Mark 11, but I have a question about the Canon R5 for anyone who might have experienced the same: Has anyone come across the situation where the EOS Utility occasionally won't transfer all the Canon R5 images from the camera to the computer? This has happened to me multiple times. I recently deleted a number of photos from my camera only to realize that maybe 10% of the photos had transferred to my computer. This never was an issue when transferring photos from my 5D cameras. I am starting to take video and so wonder if this is causing the problem. Also, my computer is less than a year old so that can't be an issue.
Yes, on both D90 and R7 after upgrading to Mac Ventura…gone on for months now and Canon seem to do nothing about it…anyone else sharing the same problems? Solutions?
@@phoootart I use Windows so good to know this is happening across both Windows and Mac. And does the following happen: when you notice that not all your photos have transferred over the EOS Utility actually thinks that all your photos have been transferred over and so you have to do a workaround to get the Utility to transfer over the missed photos.
Thats more than the human eye can see sheshh this is insane. Stick it on a R1 and watch them sell out before they hit the shelves. It would be like Sony Nikon who? Maybe it's wishful thinking but damm thats just crazy, Take my money.
Perhaps... It allows more information to be covered from the shadows and highlights which can be useful in identifying people... I'd love to see 16 stops.
2 years ago Nikon made a 1 inch sensor that can shoot 1000fps in 4K with unspecified but "particularly impressive" dynamic range and the ability to independently change the exposure of a part of an image. Still, this kind of technology is not going to be implemented anytime soon, since it's not only about sensor. So, great news from Canon, it's wonderful to see that manufacturers are improving all the time, but I believe we're going to have to wait for some time to get those sensors in commercial cameras.
I have decided to keep the camera that I have because trying to keep up with new technology can make me broke. Good news, 🏃♂️but spend your money wisely.
Sony has the starvis sensor. Let's not forget Nikon largely uses Sony sensors. Either way conventional sensors have reached a plateau and someone is gonna have to do some innovation real soon.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker Some people claim that with these 14bit CMOS sensors they keep putting in these Hybrid cameras, we are pretty much maxed out as far as dynamic range is concerned. Time will tell but I will say, there hasn't been a big jump in several generations.
Well, as we are getting rumours of the R52, there's a lot of speculation on the sensor. BSI, DR, MP and so on. Often sensor announcements and patent applications can shed light on what is to come... Beside, I wanted to make the topic more interesting.
If you look at the pictures from the garage with high dynamic range the quality is horrible. It is ok for that purpose, nobody want that in your camera.
I feel like this computational stuff has gone too far. I don't think photography will be as fun as it was during the dslr days. It's already too much with the autofocus options like for cars and stuff.
On the surface yes, but if we imagine the underlying technology of the sensor. The computational capabilities on sensor like the Apple M1, now imagine having dedicated cores on the sensor to improve dynamic range or perform other capabilities.
25 stops of dynamic range in a mirrorless camera would be awesome as we have not really seen any improvements in actual image quality in a long time. But I think it's unlikely that we will see this tech in something like the R5ii this quickly.
I cry 'BU11SHEET". 25 EV dynamic range is highly unlikely. It could be with cynalog but stills? Not stills. that is 10.3 Ev over the R5 or ~1000 times the span in light. I hope it is true but I wont be surprised that is someone's dream.
Arri has only managed to get 17 stops of dynamic range with it's new offering which costs 70000 usd, and you people hope canon to release 25 stops capable mirrorless? DR is never the strength of Canon 🤣
This is certainly a very good joke, which will probably push Canon to make cameras with a normal dynamic range, because what they are doing now is just garbage.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker I have a question R8 Shoots at 6fps in first curtain: will those images suffer from rolling shutter.? If not I'd get an R8 over R6, I do little bit of birding
Watching 1 year later and this is hillarious statement.. so please, dont make this kind of ststements in future. Its just not working with people searching for quality content, and you become irrelevant.
I wish you made some proper content instead of all the clickbaity videos. Looking at you channel content, all I see is clickbait titles. Too bad, because you obviously have the skills to make something more appealing.
Canon announced this a few weeks back. Another UA-camr touched on this saying about it being potentially used for CCTV/surveillance cameras.
I assume the B&H link is a placeholder? It says "Ordinary Filmmaker's Canon R5 II Recommended Kit" and no signs of the pre-order anywhere.
Will the IBIS of R5 mark2 be improved?
Hi Simon, this is certainly intriguing tech from Canon!! Having such a jump in dynamic range looks awesome .. but there may also be some downsides given each metering area has its own exposure meaning its own 'local ISO' value (because having a difference in aperture or shutter speed per area would show asap).
So this tech will rule out manual ISO mode, which will only be acceptable when the jump is dynamic range is so significant the loss of control over ISO is quickly forgotten.
When my math is right, a 1" sensor has 2.72 crop factor .. so this proto sensor actually has the same pixel density as a 93.7mp FF sensor. Does this also sound as R1 in your ears ???
This on a production mirrorless is all pie in the sky, at least for now, you can see from the image it is about function over quality, all parts of the image being identifiable and usable, but without the need for high-quality imaging and colour accuracy... You can get similar results, but not the dynamic range, out of some R cameras if you really push them...
I think you have to be careful with HDR as an aesthetic, some of it looks awful, and it needs to be used carefully!
I seldom run into DR range issues, but it will never hurt to have more to use if you need it.
I don't expect anything like 24 stops, but I can see some cores on the sensor being migrated to the full frame sensor.
The reason processing on the sensor die hasn't really been done, is the heat from on die processors causes noise in on die sensors. Perhaps this is why Canon is focusing on security applications where noise doesn't really matter as much, unless they've found a way to beat the heat.
It's just about time, any way it's done, to get computational photography in the DSLRs. I will make them super powerful and take photography to the next level a level that is is going with further technological advances along with software and AI advances. Our tools (cameras) need to keep pace or they will not be used or replaced.
Notice how we are seeing the computational capabilities first appear in the low end cameras ;) Looking to see what else they bring out in future cameras.
I am expecting higher dynamic range. This is the main reason I did not update to canon R5 as of to date.
24,6 stops of DR sounds really useful for R5 mk II, (wait and see) comfortable with R8 for the time being. Thanks Simon.
It would be amazing, but I suspect we will just get a boost to about 15.5/16 stops.
എമൗണ്ട് പ്ലീ
Great technical explanation Simon, thank you! Sounds like their high dynamic range will start in industrial applications and trickle down into their EOS range, but maybe not next cycle of releases. Canon will certainly reset the bar with the R5 MkII and R1 with innovation/performance - exciting times!
I think we will see about 15.5 to 16 stops on the R52, but computational capabilities have started with the R8 and R50. I don't expect 24 stops, but a few extra stops will make a difference.
Still happy with EOS R 🤷♂️
Me too I’m even thinking about getting the RP for my vacation camera
About time Canon has been way behind on dynamic range for years. Sony has been pimp slapping them with wider dynamic range but I sold my Sony a73 because the menu is horrible. Even if Canon came out with a camera with 15 or 16 stops it be way better than what they have now.
I like the idea of using on chip processing to solve problems. I wonder how this can be applied to mirrorless cameras.
SONY you’re on notice!
Simon, I knew it was clickbait, and I clicked anyway. I tend to think that the R5II won't change the dynamic range much. I think the resolution bump will be the main feature in the new camera I am thinking it will be more of a minor upgrade like the R6 Mark II. the R5 and R6 were such a jump from there R and the RP I don't think this will be that much of a jump.
If they go BSI as Canon Rumours says it could, that will improve low light performance. I wonder if there is anything in this sensor that could find its way to the R52... its less clikbaity if you consider the how basic sensor building blocks could be added to the R52 sensor like Apple has done in the M1. Imagine if Canon had cores that would process exposure better ;) Or encode pro res 422 ;)
Funny I was recently thinking about exactly this technology as a leap in quality. No exposure as a whole, but seperated in segments. Nice to see Canon doing it first. Others will have no choice but to follow suit.
NIKON literally came out with a very comparable 1 inch, 1000 fps variable exposure 110db sensor TWO YEARS AGO!
Not bad! But this sensor is 134Db.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker Yes, but the Nikon Sensor can do that at 1000fps, while the Canon is only 60fps.There is always a trade-off between different characteristics.
Simon catfished me with that thumbnail. 😁😂
Got me too. Well done Simon! 😅
A little, but I was looking for a way to make the story more interesting. New sensor announcements and patent filings can give us an idea of what is to come.
What’s about a G7X mark IV?
Haven't heard anything.
Wasn’t there a rumor a while back this high DM sensor would be for the c700ii?
even though r5 mk2 is showing bizarre new function and technology, the expection of the R1 is far more than what we can thinking🥶and the price of the r1 is even more difficult to expect
This is a little click baity Simon. The title mentions the R5 II and we all know it won’t have anything near 25 stops. It won’t even be 18 stops.
I discussed the underlying technology of the sensor, how we might see aspects of this sensor in the R52 and what we would likely see I'm low light improvements in dynamic range.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker I know what you discussed. I watched it. The info is not the issue, it’s the implication in the title. You CERTAINLY aren’t the only person who does this so please don’t take it too much to heart. But it’s a bit bothersome when you’re waiting to hear how it applies to the relevant tech (ie actual cameras) and it doesn’t.
25 stops is 1 more as average dynamic range of human sight. Because it’s logarithmic, each stop more doubles sensitive, it is double of human vision. That would be the perfect landscape camera, never more exposure blending.
Canon does not have a cinema camera nearly close to these specs, nobody does. I doubt they would introduce this tech in a consumer level camera, so the odds of this appearing in R5ii is zero.
ehhh I'm not buying it, if the new Alexa maxs out at 17 true stops of dynamic range than I doubt Canon could even scratch the back of that level of performance in a SLR style camera. Maybe in a C series camera combined with there Dual Gain setup could break 20 but even then that feels like a stretch and would probably be inflated for sales.
It’s a new technology, so why not? Technology moves forward, improves, and changes over time. I believe the c300 MkIII is using similar technology as the Alexa which has been around awhile.
Canon's new C700 are supposed to be able to hit between 17 and 20 stops.
Ok but would the human eye be able to notice it and most importantly, would it make us take better pictures?
20 stops, yes we would notice. Watch an old James Bond movie and see the difference in dynamic range film brought ;) 25 stops, not likely...
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker Yeah I thought so too. 20 yes but 25? Probably not.
Dynamic range is definitely not 14 stops in the R5. 11.5 at most according to tests.
I'm referencing the manufactures number, not testing so I'd expect the R52 to have an extra 2 stops... or 13.5 in testing as you put it.
Canon is marketing. Nikon is back to its non-marketing years. And Sony is getting stuff out quickly.
Team Nikon haha
The image (singular, because that's all there is on the web as far as I know) coming from this sensor doesn't inspire much confidence. Don't get me wrong, I believe we might see a similar approach in camera sensors in the future but certainly not in the very near one. It may take some time for this tech to mature and by then we might reach ~20 stops with traditional means.
Going beyond what even the human eye can capture is very appealing though so I'm curious to see more info on this technology
For the scenario of security cameras, it is all about identification. I don't think they are going for photo of the week
I can't possibly fathom that IF this technology was scaleable to a common- sized sensor -and that's a big IF-that they would put it in anything other than a flagship cine camera (eg: a c700 Mk II, etc).
24 stops of DR....on a 1" sensor?? Thinking a bit outside of Canon's standard box, it could be a blast to include this on a drone, actually... 😁
great update!
Thanks!
Tbh 15EV is good enough to fight Sony..... I can't imagine if it is 25EV
I know this is about the Canon R5 Mark 11, but I have a question about the Canon R5 for anyone who might have experienced the same: Has anyone come across the situation where the EOS Utility occasionally won't transfer all the Canon R5 images from the camera to the computer? This has happened to me multiple times. I recently deleted a number of photos from my camera only to realize that maybe 10% of the photos had transferred to my computer. This never was an issue when transferring photos from my 5D cameras. I am starting to take video and so wonder if this is causing the problem. Also, my computer is less than a year old so that can't be an issue.
Yes, on both D90 and R7 after upgrading to Mac Ventura…gone on for months now and Canon seem to do nothing about it…anyone else sharing the same problems? Solutions?
@@phoootart I use Windows so good to know this is happening across both Windows and Mac. And does the following happen: when you notice that not all your photos have transferred over the EOS Utility actually thinks that all your photos have been transferred over and so you have to do a workaround to get the Utility to transfer over the missed photos.
@@duanek9221 I have to manually count to see they’ve all ended up saved.
“This is a big butt here” 😜 😂
you where close..very close...🤣
The R5c has all the features I wish the R5 had. Just give me an R5c without the ugly fan and terrible battery. Meaning just unlock the R5 features.
Thats more than the human eye can see sheshh this is insane. Stick it on a R1 and watch them sell out before they hit the shelves. It would be like Sony Nikon who? Maybe it's wishful thinking but damm thats just crazy, Take my money.
If it does 8k video you could use it for the next 20 years.
Perhaps... It allows more information to be covered from the shadows and highlights which can be useful in identifying people... I'd love to see 16 stops.
2 years ago Nikon made a 1 inch sensor that can shoot 1000fps in 4K with unspecified but "particularly impressive" dynamic range and the ability to independently change the exposure of a part of an image. Still, this kind of technology is not going to be implemented anytime soon, since it's not only about sensor. So, great news from Canon, it's wonderful to see that manufacturers are improving all the time, but I believe we're going to have to wait for some time to get those sensors in commercial cameras.
Unless they improve the crappy DR, do 10 bit w/o log, use real WB and add wide DR I’m not buying the R5 ii.
I have decided to keep the camera that I have because trying to keep up with new technology can make me broke. Good news, 🏃♂️but spend your money wisely.
They’ll combine it with a logarithm that peaks at 11 stops 🫤
LOL - you might be a little bit jaded Albert.
Sony has the starvis sensor. Let's not forget Nikon largely uses Sony sensors. Either way conventional sensors have reached a plateau and someone is gonna have to do some innovation real soon.
R1 stands for 100 megapixels, they just aren't telling you.
Naah. Give us proper 16 stops of DR, not some billion computational imaginary DR bs…
What fi they do it right?
This sensor is not made for image quality. Be at least 10 years until we get this ironed out for professional photography and videography.
Its all about identification in low light and bright light. We'll likely see 15.5/16 stops
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker Some people claim that with these 14bit CMOS sensors they keep putting in these Hybrid cameras, we are pretty much maxed out as far as dynamic range is concerned. Time will tell but I will say, there hasn't been a big jump in several generations.
Thanks for putting a picture of the R5 in the thumbnail so I would click on it. Well played. 🤡🤡🤡
Well, as we are getting rumours of the R52, there's a lot of speculation on the sensor. BSI, DR, MP and so on. Often sensor announcements and patent applications can shed light on what is to come... Beside, I wanted to make the topic more interesting.
If you look at the pictures from the garage with high dynamic range the quality is horrible. It is ok for that purpose, nobody want that in your camera.
I feel like this computational stuff has gone too far. I don't think photography will be as fun as it was during the dslr days. It's already too much with the autofocus options like for cars and stuff.
then shoot dslr
Just the idea is somewhat mind numbing.
On the surface yes, but if we imagine the underlying technology of the sensor. The computational capabilities on sensor like the Apple M1, now imagine having dedicated cores on the sensor to improve dynamic range or perform other capabilities.
25 stops of dynamic range in a mirrorless camera would be awesome as we have not really seen any improvements in actual image quality in a long time. But I think it's unlikely that we will see this tech in something like the R5ii this quickly.
I cry 'BU11SHEET". 25 EV dynamic range is highly unlikely. It could be with cynalog but stills? Not stills. that is 10.3 Ev over the R5 or ~1000 times the span in light. I hope it is true but I wont be surprised that is someone's dream.
You're right - this is unlikely
Arri has only managed to get 17 stops of dynamic range with it's new offering which costs 70000 usd, and you people hope canon to release 25 stops capable mirrorless? DR is never the strength of Canon 🤣
This is certainly a very good joke, which will probably push Canon to make cameras with a normal dynamic range, because what they are doing now is just garbage.
So your wife won't be making a cameo on the channel to share what she cooked you for breakfast?
Omg
I know, you were the second to post a comment this time...
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker 😅
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker I have a question
R8 Shoots at 6fps in first curtain: will those images suffer from rolling shutter.?
If not I'd get an R8 over R6, I do little bit of birding
April fools in February 😅
Watching 1 year later and this is hillarious statement.. so please, dont make this kind of ststements in future. Its just not working with people searching for quality content, and you become irrelevant.
I wish you made some proper content instead of all the clickbaity videos. Looking at you channel content, all I see is clickbait titles. Too bad, because you obviously have the skills to make something more appealing.
Old news
Impossible
How so... it's there in their sensor so reality... in the R52, not going to happen.