Greco-Roman Mystery Religions
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- The Roman Empire went through a military, political, economic, social, and spiritual crisis in the 3rd century, which led to significant transformations (which historians mark as the end of the Classical period and the transition to Late Antiquity). Although many had earlier roots, mystery religions flourished in Late Antiquity. John Hamer of Toronto Centre Place will review various cults including the mysteries of Eleusis, Samothrace, Mithras, and Isis. Should Christianity be considered a mystery religion and/or did it absorb practices from its ancient rivals?
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#MysteryReligions #GrecoRomanMyths #AncientReligion
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All religious leaders should have to be historians like him.
He's not just a historian, I'm sure he was also top of many of his courses if not his schools and also sides with critical thinking and secular humanism/humanitarianism above factionalist tradition and dogma. Although it might help a bit, I am certain it will not be enough of a cure-all for modern religious leaders to get history degrees or personally practice history themselves for whatever length of time.
I think the problem is they know this information but choose to obscure it
religious truth is not based on history alone, as history is too often nothing more then the product of the imaginations of the victors of said history. The losers of said history would likely have a totally different history to tell
@@TechdingosThats the problem
If they become historians, they won't be religious
Yet another wonderful and informative lecture.
Open UA-cam and NEW CENTRE PLACE LECTURE!!! Was having a bad day and now it’s turned around into something much better!
Great talk. Why not include the research of David Ulansey, who has apparently discovered the astronomical mystery at the core of the Mithraic religion? (linked to the precession of the equinoxes). His interpretation pretty soundly dispenses with almost all previous theories (such as the supposed Persian origins). Is this not accepted by scholars today? The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries, Oxford University Press, 1991.
It truly seems like the roman Mithras god has nothing to do with the ancient Persian sun god Mithra.
It would be nice if YT would allow their content creators to present a slideshow for those waiting to watch a livestream. It could be a great place to put info about Center Place, its history, beliefs and approach. Another great lecture, John.
I hope you consider doing a series of lectures on insights into the life of Emma Smith
thank you again, The light truly shines in Centre Place and JH. In truth and spirit is the only way to the creator.
Thank you for all of your content. In regards to 102:45, I am wondering why you left out this quote from Justin Martyr. In his First Apology, writing on the practice of the Eucharist stated, “… after that same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “this is my blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing be done. For that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or you can learn.”
Writing in approximately 155 AD, Justin’s only defense to mend the similarities in this cultic practice is to say it was imitated; stolen from Christ.
Justin’s defense notion must have been seen as a weak defense in its historical context, as the Romans held Mithraism in high regard and persecuted Christianity. To entertain a response to Justin’s defense- Why would Mithraism, a mystery religion that existed long before Christ, steal this practice from a first-century rebel group who were then, on the brink of persecution?
I found the Literal -> Allegorical -> Tropological -> Anagogical explanation interesting
I was going to ridicule you for "tropological" but that's a word and it has nothing to do with coconuts and palm trees. You win.
So let's make a small correction to Depuis:
Jesus was not born on Dec 25th,
Mithras was not born on Dec 25th.
Clearly a striking similarity.
Jesus is King.🤎
a little light on the mystery religions and little heavy on zeitgeist rebuttle. I've heard the rebuttle before, kinda would have liked more stuff on the mysteries.
perhaps there just isn't enough besides that quotation.
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
When I listen JH lectures I lose the shame I feel about Christianity. Thank you!!!.
I'm curious what metrics you are using, regarding your christianity, that makes you feel shame and than how this video makes those feelings "less"??
True curiosity/not snark.
Right? I didn't understand this either.
Be proud to be Christian.. You need to be all in or all out.. as times and persecution is going to get rough,, Pray for strength ., God will answer you., even if it is eventually .. He doesn’t have a watch! 🙏🏻
A fantastic and level headed debunking of many of the most prolific misattributions people make between Christianity and other traditions. Thanks for your work. As someone that came out of the esoteric/occult Christian world where so many of these syncretisms are pushed with little reference to modern scholarly analysis this has been very valuable as I deprogram a lot of the falsehoods I was taught during initiations/within the writings of my past Order
Thanks for sharing your insight!
In Re Early Christians as a Mystery Religion:
Holy Mysteries is used in Catholic and Eastern Orthodox for the sacraments, both the 7 major and the many minor sacraments. And for the nature of the godhead.
One of the holdovers from the Early Church is the dismissal of the Catechumens within the liturgy of St. Basil (used by Eastern Rites Catholics and the Constantinopolitan Eastern Orthodox as well as the Copts, both Catholic and Alexandrian/Oriental Orthodox ) - After the homily, before the procession of the gifts, the unbaptized are dismissed (with a deacon or priest to teach them) and the doors to the hall are to be closed. The senior Deacon's call for this, "The doors! The doors! In wisdom, be attentive!" There is an optional prayer of dismissal, as well. Many parishes still do the dismissing of the catechumens. Even some Roman Rite parishes.
It's also been noted that the early church before being expelled from the synagogues would have been to go to synagogue, then after, to reconvene in the celebrant's house or a parishioner's house, to hold the communion service. Then, after the communion, the general parish meal.
thanks from kirtland :)☺
I love the explication of the rise of literalism. It is that idiotic literal approach that drove me away from the church I was raised in. Even now, and frankly even worse now, Christians in my home area are slavishly devoted to absurd contradictions in the name of faith. I admire your ability to know how dumb that is and still find a way to believe. I will never be able to believe anything because of the ridiculous adults who tried to force me to accept absurdities.
Thanks!
12 disciples, 12 labors Hercules, 12 labors of Jason etc. Everywhere there is twelve and one hero. The 25th is the winter solstice. The hero isn't born on the 25th but resurrected as the days get longer. The Sun moves 1 degree until the 22nd for 3 days. You can relate all the stories to the zodiac. You can't however draw a direct parallel from religion to religion. But when you look at all of them through the lense of the zodiac, you then see that they are all based on astrology.
Don't forget Jacobs 12 sons, Israel 12 judges or perhaps the 12 imans of Islam or the 12 rishi's in Hinduism, 12 Olympian gods, 12 gods of Asgard..and while you're at it don't forget the other significant number that bring 7 ..7 churches, Samsons 7 locks of hair.. The 7 Gates of the underworld that innana had to go through, Orpheus with his lyre (7 strings) while the 12 absolutely does refer to the zodiac the 7 in turn corresponding to the 7 planets of antiquity.. While they are indicative of astrotheology they also have another much deeper symbolic meaning.. The hero in some way conquers death which is the true purpose of the mysteries.. you undergo a symbolic death not a physical one but the result is the same.. You come to know by direct experience who you truly are.. You come to "know thyself" which was the purpose of the mysteries.. To unite the spirit with the mind and body.. accomplishing by uniting both the masculine and feminine aspects of your mind.. you are "anointed" (Christ, Krishna means anointed) and you become the Christ.. symbolicly depicted by the two thieves one accepts him (feminine ) one rejects him (masculine) with Christ being between the two.. they are myths but myths are the teaching tools of the great mystery tradition
John Hamer’s lectures give me the intellectual equivalent of an orgasm. Very well researched and presented and far away from the typical childishness of most UA-cam channels which either push religions in an anachronical fashion or trash religions as mere worthless delusions.
Wow Georgy what colorful wonderfull estateastful mundane .mind oh boy aha
You should listen to Terence McKenna's The Price of Miracles lecture. You'll be weeping with astonishment of his words nothing.
No mystery!!! Your Greco-Roman mystery religion is in fact the Persian religion called Mithraism. Worshippers of Light and Sun over Dark and night. It was the predecessor to the Persian Zoroastrianism, still practiced today. Mithraism was the prevalent religion in all Europe prior to Christianity, and it was called "Sol Invictus". The Temples are all over Europe, but specially in Roman Europe. The statue of a Persian soldier and the Bull is recognized everywhere.
So why there is not a single Mithreum found in Persia? All of them are in formerly Roman territory.
Because 1st: Roman Europe did not have the pleasure of being ransacked and pillaged by Arabs in the 7th century. 2nd: The religion of Zoroaster (Zarathustra) was Mithraism. Like Jesus and Jewish. So Mithraism was eventually replaced by Zoroastrianism when it was accepted by Persian Kings. The differences between the two are nominal and superficial.
Mithraism wasn't the only myster/savior cult. There were many more. Isis, Zalmoxis, Dionysus. Roman Catholicism is probably most related to the Imperial Cult, because they would have been in the position of power already.
1:10:16 is where he went off base. Many scholars exist that show that the stories of the dying and rising gods are in fact the same, and these are "modern" historians, not ones from 1890.
In this speculative scenario, let's consider Leibniz's Monad (first emanation of God), from the philosophical work "The Monadology", as an abstract representation of the zero-dimensional space that binds quarks together with the Strong Nuclear Force:
1) Indivisibility and Unity: Monads, as indivisible entities, mirror the nature of quarks, which are deemed elementary and indivisible particles in our theoretical context. Just as monads possess unity and indivisibility, quarks are unified in their interactions through the Strong Nuclear Force.
2) Interconnectedness: In the Monadology, monads are interconnected in a vast network. In a parallel manner, the interconnectedness of quarks through the strong force could be metaphorically represented by the interplay of monads, forming a web that holds particles together.
3) Inherent Properties: Just as monads possess inherent perceptions and appetitions, quarks could be thought of as having intrinsic properties like color charge, reflecting the inherent qualities of monads and influencing their interactions.
4) Harmony: The concept of monads contributing to universal harmony resonates with the idea that the Strong Nuclear Force maintains harmony within atomic nuclei by counteracting the electromagnetic repulsion between protons, allowing for the stability of matter.
5) Pre-established Harmony: Monads' pre-established harmony aligns with the idea that the strong force was pre-designed to ensure stable interactions among quarks, orchestrating their behavior in a way that parallels the harmony envisaged by Leibniz.
6) Non-Mechanical Interaction: Monads interact non-mechanically, mirroring the non-mechanical interactions of quarks through gluon exchange. This connection might be seen as a metaphorical reflection of the intricacies of quark-gluon dynamics.
7) Holism: The holistic perspective of monads could symbolize how quarks, like the monads' interconnections, contribute holistically to the structure and behavior of particles through the strong force interactions.
27:21
Excuse my modern catastrophist reading, but Mithras holding a sword and a torch with a hat that looks like a wave: the torch is the burning of the world (ekpyrosis)= solar outburst, the wave is the flood (cataclysmos), and the sword is the comet / asteroid (impactor).
The bull is Taurus (the Zodiac sign): the impactor seemed to be coming from that direction (Taurid meteor stream): the shoulder of the bull (where the sword is) is traditionally the Pleiades. - Bull fights are a very interesting issue: the running of the bulls in Pamplona down that very constricted alley: the “runner” is the Earth in its orbit, while the meteor stream is the bulls taking over and trampling down the runner every now and then. Then in revenge the Bull is killed ritually (with a sword through the shoulder into the heart). (The first killing of the Bull of Heaven is in the Gilgamesh Epos of course: the oldest written story in history).
All the other animals in the Tauroctony Altar scenes are also referring to other constellations. The coat Mithras is wearing has stars on the inside - it is the night sky. (The torch bearers left and right denote the equinox usually, which hints at time / date; Mithras is looking back in a lot of the depictions: back in time, back in history - as the event happened in the past; the ceremony remembers the catastrophe. Btw. Watch Randall Carlson talk about Halloween/ The Days of the Dead… - a different story, but truly the same).
For the Lion and the Snake: the snake (= dragon) might be a symbol for the comet again (- dragons are killed with a lance usually, which in itself is a symbol for the comet, just like the sword is). The Lion is either a symbol for the sun (- the Lions mane is like the long hair of Samson a sign for the active sun / protuberances / CMBs), or it is a way of dating the cataclysm: the Sphinx originally was a Lion and was looking due East: when the cataclysm happened 12k years ago the sun was rising in the constellation of Leo (- see Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson explaining “The Great Year” / The precession of the Equinoxes).
Sorry, but for a catastrophist like me, it is all the same story over and over again: Hercules killed two snakes while in the crib.
In the bible Adam and Eve are driven from Eden / Paradise with the fiery sword after the snake did its job.
Samson (long hair = active sun) topples the pillar (the axis of the earth) and buries the house. (Earth crust displacement theories). - Whenever a house is built, we put a little tree on top: re-erecting the pillar / the axis. Each year a tree gets erected at church fairs (and May trees): the axis needs to be re-established. Even the star ornament on top of the Christmas tree can be read multiple ways: the comet (!) (star of Bethlehem) at the birth of our age / current civilization; or again as a reestablishing of the axis: the axis points at the North Star/ Polaris, and we are lucky it does (- well: the star it points to changes over 25900 years - see precession of the equinoxes / the great year again, but the important thing is, that it is upright again)
Of course the turning over of the axis is denied by science, but I would not be so sure: the heavy icecaps do want to rotate at the equator, and IF the crust truly unlocks from the mantle during a strong solar outburst in times of a weak geomagnetic field (all of which is denied by current science), we get the world wide floods, as the oceans continue at the “normal” direction.
Watch Jimmy’s / Bright Inside Eye of the Sahara / Atlantis videos: it truly looks as if the Mediterranean once washed over the Sahara, which imho could happen if the axis suddenly tilted…
Listen to the Kalevala: the stealing of the Sampo (the great millstone) and its dropping in the sea (to create the great whirl): sounds like the stealing of the rotational axis and ensuing floods all over again. The Sampo was locked in place (nine fathoms deep) and it took the help of the Bull to unlock it (!).
Edit: The Hyades star cluster was considered the hind leg of the bull (back in the times of the Babylonians) - Samson slew thousands with the hind leg of an ass… (- “Hamlet’s Mill” is full of dozens of those hints; though it’s authors where thinking of the precession of the axis only, rather than a tilting, the book is treasure for all the different myths and traditions in the old cultures of the earth).
Edit 2: whenever you see a figure holding a staff at around 23 degrees, guess what: that’s the tilt of the earths axis.
Mithras had two helpers there in the depictions with Phrygian caps? Maybe there were two or three impacts (- younger dryas is multiple events!)
Maybe the elites are building rockets to escape the worst of the floods and land back on earth when everything has settled?
If the coiled up snake was a stand-in for the geomagnetic field, then the depictions of the lion headed man with the 23 degree staff / axis would imply that the field lines would have been at almost 90 degree to the axis though… - which isn’t currently the case. For that to be the case, the magnetic poles would have needed to be at near the equator, which would imply an extreme magnetic field excursion in living memory of humans…
It would explain all the other “staff with snake” symbolism all over the ancient world though.
(Asclepius, Moses etc.)
If Yggdrasil is the axis, maybe the Midgard Serpent is not actually the sea monster (flood) or the equator, but the geomagnetic field itself.
Even the story of Eden had a snake and a tree… - and the snake representing the “betrayal”, in effect leading to the “flaming sword” (the solar outburst) driving humanity from Paradise.
P.S.: I know: it all sounds crazy. Next thing I will claim is, that the inventor of the Smurfs made them blue, so it fits the wave theme of their Phrygian caps. Or that the makers of “The Last Unicorn” thought of the Megafauna Extinction at the Younger Dryas Boundary, when the red bull (Taurus again…) drove the unicorns into the sea…
(Or maybe the Phrygians remembered the other great Sea People (the Atlanteans) by wearing those caps?)
The problem is: once the pattern recognition system in your brain switches on, you even see them where they are not.
Be it as it may: I think humanity had a near death experience as a whole, and its cultures and traditions reflect it, even after thousands of years, no matter where you look. It’s like a trauma that has to be relived again and again: I’m pretty sure it is why we invented religion and theater in the first place: every generation has to reenact the same plays on stage over and over again, to never forget the sunken civilization, remember the dead and praise the resurrection humanity has gone through.
Yet nobody reads those things the way I do. It’s like everyone else is blind to the overarching story, or too afraid to (re)invent it, or just a sign that I’m slowly going crazy.
As a kind of bonus for reading all my silly comments, I wanted to link “The last Unicorn” Intro, but UA-cam is deleting the comment, as soon as I put the link in. 😢
It’s echoes upon echoes upon echoes, but a lot of the symbology is still there. While there is no Bull in the intro, we get to kind of see the seven stars (Pleiades) (- which technically is a kind of foreshadowing of the Taurus the Bull). We get a fountain where Birds of Paradise are drinking, and then water pours from a Lion’s head (!) on the fountain, into a lake where the Unicorn sees its reflection, like the seeing the last age as it passes before her.
And then even the text in the song about mourning and the coming winter (Younger Dryas event was a plunge back into the ice age, before it finally ended abruptly with meltwater pulse and sea level rise). Then the reminder in the text of mystery and myth, no wonder it speaks to me, even as an adult.
Edit: it’s ridiculous, but the horn of the Unicorn already has the winding in it: it’s like a merger of the 23 degree tilted staff with the snake and the lance: it’s literally three in one. Watch the intro, I linked it separately. The horn points at the 7 stars (the Pleiades?). - At the end it’s multiplying bunnies (like humanity repopulating the Earth) and an Owl watching (- like some secret knowledge brotherhood symbol, keeping watch). - I have no idea how everything seems to fit, when I’m in “the flow”: there is no way that this was all put there intentionally, yet someone designed the film / intro exactly that way.
just watched an ad for hillsdale. the chemistry professor talked about what he teaches in chemistry class. apparently he teaches everything about chemstry except acual chemistry. weird.
I would love to know the reference of the St. Augustine quote 🙏🙏
These are really good. Problem is the context is off from the actual truth. Bit of a shame. I do understand why this happens though.
why were those Smurf hats associated with the French Revolution?
The 'rock' is a reference to Matter ... Mother. He is the Sun and She is the Earth. The Sun is born on Winter Solstice and after 3 days begins to move and saves the world. In the ancient world there was one spiritual tradition. The myths are told differently, and the deities have been given different names, but it was the same worldwide tradition for all humanity ... Great Mother (Matter) and Her dying and resurrecting Son Lover (Consciousness). He is represented by the Sun and She by the Earth and Moon. He is simply Her Consciousness and She is all that exists. She is the Universe, and He is Universal Consciousness.
The Virgin is Great Mother. She is Matter ... The 'Rock', the Cosmic Mountain ... Did you just say Isis is not a Virgin? She is the Mother Goddess!!!! She is the One without a second!!! She is called a Virgin because She produces the Universe out of Herself!!! She doesn't need a spouse. You don't know what you are talking about!!!!!! So frustrating!!! Go back to drawing board and figure it out!!! By the way ... She's real.
Horus is the resurrected Osiris.
Thanks I do enjoy some of your talks ..I only caught the back end of the live stream .. Will start from the beginning and review as soon as i get a chance. There is no real doubt in my opinion, Rome Hijack monotheism via Constantine they subvert edit and compile the book ,cement the creed and apotheosis and punish all other opposing views as heresy at pain of death. The empire is loosing its grip and also cannot enforce its tax collection as efficiently due to authentic Christianity. Once they adopt it as state religion its business as usual.
Great video. I've been researching this labyrinth for a while and still haven't found all the answers. One correction though... The phrygian cap has a long history of being a symbol of liberty/freedom even up to the beginning of the US, many times put on a pole or tree top weirdly. The original phrygian caps were said to be made from a tanned bull's ball sack, but that detail doesn't seem to be important to it's symbology considering how it was made in later times... IMO all the mystery cults were about natural not visible (occult) energies electric/magnetism and their involvement and connection to nature, the human body, and the solar bodies and cycles. Electric(spark, fire), magnetism, light, and radiation can all be born from a stone.
I belong to the Taoism, Christo-Islam and Greco-Roman Religion is the known as the Great Impaling Curse.
Zoroastrianism Mithra concept is still alive in China, amongst some Taoists of course.
The virgin birth scenario was copied from the Egyptians as they depicted a similar event in their own mythological stories.
Christianity came along much later and simply modified the existing story slightly and reused it
You are wrong on so many points. Great Mother and Her dying and resurrecting Son Lover. Tells story of Sun and Earth.
Those are not Frisian hats, those are Geto-Dacian.
Ah, the historian vs the world
There is no way the development of Christianity was not greatly influenced by the Mystery Religions. Every culture (including religions) are ever evolving and changing based on the popular culture of the day. The most simple examples are music and fashion. Of course the myths, beliefs and practices of Christianity were influenced by what was popular at that time - they had to compete in order to attract new members!! Dupuis may have overstepped in his Mithraism comparison but, I believe you overstepped in throwing out ALL influence of pop culture on the formation of Christian beliefs. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Yeah, I think its a perfectly fair question to ask how much of early Chritianity was a mystery cult. Or more accuately how much of the story of Jesus was shaped to fit into a mystery cult framework.
I enjoyed most of this, however I was shocked by his absurd interpretation of the Gospels as invented by later generations of Christians based on allegorizing the Septuagint. That’s as outlandish as the claims of 18th century mystery scholars he debunks. 1 Corinthians is one of the earliest Christian documents written within 20 years of the life of Christ. In ch 15, Paul clearly attests the death and resurrection of Christ.
In re "Marked with the sign of the Cross" the method of doins so for Ash Wednesday, while itself not initiationary, is a mirror of the first sign of the cross upon the faithful in their initiation - that is part of Roman Catholic baptism and confirmation/chrismation - on the head, lips, the hands, the chest, and on the feet. Eastern Rite Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian Churches do both baptism and confirmation as a singular ceremony.
Catholics and Orthodox are, and have since the 5th C, been universally marking the faithful with the sign of the cross at initiation. "Be signed and sealed with the gifts of the Holy Spirit" being uttered when the sacred chrism is applied at confirmation/chrismation.
Likewise, the unbaptized faithful are blessed with the sign of the cross in that same manner, with the thumb.
The various Rites in Catholic, Constantinopolitan Orthodox (aka Eastern Orthodox) , Alexandrian Orthodox (aka "Oriental Orthodox") and the Assyrian churches' communions receive crosses in "Oil of Gladness" (one of the annointing oils prescribed) several times in the year, tho' exactly when varies by intividual autocepalous (Self-Heading - used by the Orthodox churches) or sui iuris (Self ruling - used by the Catholic communion) church.
christianity = paganism perfected through syncretism
No there wasn't a historical freaking Jesus. Maybe Simon and Helen were Jesus and Mary ... representing Isis and Osiris, Inanna and Demuzi etc. Matter and Consciousness. You absolutely don't know what you are talking about.
Pagan religion is Albanian, very old old religion it is all the history its self
You Should talk to an actual initiate, we still exist
Spill the beans then 😂
So: what do you think of Brian Muraresku’s book “The immortality key” then?
If psychedelics aren't involved with your ontology, then you have NO idea what's going on.
@@Stadtpark90 i honestly haven't read it but I know of it. "the light of Egypt" is the only book I've read that would be close but I'm assuming the majority will be speculative conclusions regarding the 'prisca theologia'. I'll say two things regarding the mysteries that you'll never find in any book as it's part of the oral tradition. first, everything you'll ever need to know is hidden in plain sight for all the see.. The mysteries are hidden in the myths of the ancient world. my discipline follows Odin but, All dying and rising gods contain the secret of the mysteries in complex symbolic allegory. Jesus, Osiris, Persephone, Orpheus, Dionysus, Attis, theseus, Krishna et all.. all contain the same information.. different cultures used different symbols but all teach the same truth . Who you truly are.
Second, the truth of this existence. what we call the first arcanum. "the thing that must be known before anything else can be known in its proper context" Everyone just assumes and never questions that what we are experiencing now is life and what comes next is death but that's not true. It's the opposite that's true, where's your soul? entombed in flesh, the element of earth. the Egyptian book of the dead is really called "book of coming forth by day" if the afterlife to them is day(life) then this must be night (death) and it is. When you read the myths of the underworld know that they are referring to here.. This is the underworld, this is the land of the dead.. Now look at societies like the Masons ( all "secret societies" are mystery schools.) Their first initiation involves a noose around the neck and is filled with death symbolism.. why? because this is always the first thing taught to initiates.. Yale's skull and bones, (the very name itself is telling once you know the reason) has their headquarters in an old tomb. Our job is to be like innana, Persephone, Orpheus, the Aztec hero twins and many many more and escape the underworld. How do we do this? by coming to "know thyself" directly experiencing who you truly are.. You might 'believe' you have a soul but it's a whole other ballgame when you truly KNOW who you are. All religion is spirituality in disguise, all are true and all are lies simultaneously. All these truths are hidden in plain sight, never lost in fact even the true purpose of the great pyramid was never lost to time. it too is hidden in plain sight. Those in the know mock you by putting the truth right on the back of the dollar bill in symbol for all to see and few to know. it's not the "eye of Providence" or the "eye of God" the triangle is symbolic of the mind just as the circle is spirit and the body the square. The final part of the great mysteries was the opening of the eye inside the mind. I'm sure the book is well written and researched but it's the oral tradition that has the answers and that fortunately was never written down.
@@randyallen2966 read my answer to the other comment, just don't slip on all the beans
Mithraism is originally a Persian/Iranian religion!
Not necessarily, and it's not that simple. Mithraism might simply be Hellenistic syncretism, just like many other Mediterranean mystery religions and cults. Christianity being one of them.
@@Bluesruse No! Mithraism is an Iranian/Aryan/Persian religion. Stop stealing Iranian/Persian history!
@@Bluesruse And Christianity comes from the Middle East.
@@delaramsalmassi4063 No, Zoroastrianism is an Iranian/Aryan/Persian religion. The mystery cult Mithraism of the Romans and Greeks doesn't necessarily originate from Persia, but rather is based on Hellenistic syncretism of Iranian/Aryan/Persian religion (we don't know for certain).
Likewise, some ideas and parts of Christianity come from the Middle East. That doesn't mean that the religion originated from there (and in the case of Christianity today, we know it didn't, the religion is almost completely of Hellenistic origin, and has much more to do with places like Anatolia (modern day Turkey) and Egypt (Alexandria).
Do you even what syncretism is?
@@Bluesruse No the very religion is originally an Aryan/Iranian/Persian religion which the Greeks and the Romans took to themselves. Stop stealing Aryan/Iranian/Persian history and heritage and civilization.
I've listened to Dr. Carrier and I enjoy the arguments for mythicism but he is clearly using fallacious arguments and conspiratorial rhetoric which I really hate.
What fallacious arguments or conspirational rhetoric he makes?
First perandor on Roman Empire, who put the religion to the community. Christianity is Ilir Albanian origin. It’s not Greek the Costantino is the great is from Albania, Ilir
Aphrodite was likely adopted from the Phoenician Astarte, so Semitic people at least had that influence on Greek religion
Excellent wipe out of the idiotic parallels of Jesus and Horus. Zetgeist has just got to be the most ignorant thing ever put out on the internet.
He's failing to grasp that the mystery tradition myths were always attached to real people so of course the historical Jesus doesn't equal the mythical Jesus
Almost the complete opposite is true. Isis, Zalmoxis, Dionysus, etc. none were historical, even if stories were made that claimed otherwise. Jesus would be the exception, not the rule.
@@Bluesruse I'd suggest you research that a bit more carefully my friend before making erroneous comments
@@4everseekingwisdom690 The only erroneous comment here is yours, as your claim that these were _always_ attached to real people is demonstrably and categorically false: We know 100% certain Isis wasn't historical, even if some people later claimed otherwise.
I'd suggest you respond with an actual argument my friend, and not just a petty and empty accusation.
@@Bluesruse sure. First off according to Turin royal Canon (and the pyramid texts) the period of Egyptian history known as 'zep tepi' was presided over by the actual gods. According to their literature they were real people. That's the same burden of proof you're using for your claims "a text said so" so both are equally valid. Secondly. You believe there was an actual Alexander of Macedonia right? I hope so, now educate yourself on the Alexander romance stories. Alexander mythicized into a demi god.. how about Julius Cesar who was defied after death also mythicized. How about the nag hamadi text which literally has two versions of one story one with the original character and the other version exactly the same except Jesus has replaced the main character. What my argument is is that these myths you think are just primitive attempts at explaining things they didn't understand are actually complex symbolic allegories that contain the entirety of the ancient mystery tradition. EVERY religion at its core be it pagan or Abrahamic is a mystery religion. The goal of the mysteries is to "know thyself"
A way to directly experience who you truly are., in the myths YOU are the main character.. YOU must escape the underworld like persephone and Orpheus or the Aztec hero twins.. YOU are Odin hanging on the world tree, spear in his side sacrificing himself to himself..YOU are Osiris, Krishna, attis, Apollo YOU are the one that must die on the cross..symbolically of course and what do they all have in common? They all in some manner defeat death, which is accomplished by discovering who you truly are by direct experience. The true Christians were the gnostics but all you see is the surface of what they thought focusing on the demiurge or since other allegory.. to that end when crafting and encoding these myths they often attached them to actual known people
Building the myths on historical figures..
Neither of our points are provable and to say we know anything for 100% certainty is just wearing your ignorance like a badge of honor.. my knowledge comes from experience yours comes from "faith" and a healthy dose of the dunning Kruger effect
@@4everseekingwisdom690 You are making a category mistake here. Yes, many cultures deified their rules. Typically though, this happened after their death. And yet still, Isis never existed. And we know this as certain as we can know anything about history for certain (e.g., that Julius Caesar certainly existed). So, your initial claim is still categorically and demonstrably _false_
Your ad hominem attacks just betray your own ignorance, and talking about the Dunning-Kruger effect together with your username is just a massive cherry on top of the huge cake of irony here.
Which is Christianity instead of real Ebounites which is Palestinian Judah Jewish that was called following the way and then the Greco-Roman mystery religion came in with all the fake stories about Jesus walking on water him being God that's Greco Roman man as God
Didn't Atlantis have Priests and Priestesses?
I though Atlantis was an Alegory made up by Plato to describe the hubris of nations?
This guy knows nothing about the history of
I think ancient shamanism and psychedelic use has to do with many of the origins of religion.
Thanks!
Thank you!!