THE SYLVERS Before BOOGIE FEVER One Of The Best Groups Ever!

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  • Опубліковано 28 жов 2021
  • Out the gate they wrote all their songs/Could sing 6 part acapella harmony / Did their own amazing choreography / Had 5 lead singers (including Foster) Looked better than any other group of that era / Collectively as a group The young Sylvers were one of the most impressive self contained singing groups that ever existed/ After my musical bio on The 5 Stairsteps got such an overwhelmingly positive response I thought it was time to tackle another extremely talented family. The Sylvers have endured many tragedies during their career (shout out to Olympia) but I always remembered the impact they had on 70's soul in the beginning. This is not meant as a knock on Boogie Fever or Hot Line (2 songs I happen to enjoy) Just a way to make sure their INITIAL impact is documented and NEVER forgotten
    Let me know if you want more of these . (I'm thinking of the early Jackson 5/ Jackie Wilson and more)
    petepeterkin@yahoo.com // 702-773-0497
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 113

  • @kevinfleming9423
    @kevinfleming9423 2 роки тому +34

    Leon Sylvers is a genius. WOW as a teen he wrote "Fools Paradise". Then he parlayed that into a lead songwriter and musician for Solar Records and the great artists on their label. He's still active in the industry to this day. I love the great Sylvers to this day.

    • @kevinpayton2664
      @kevinpayton2664 Рік тому +1

      I love that song.

    • @donmilland7606
      @donmilland7606 7 місяців тому +2

      He wrote "Misdemeanorf! That song remains a timeless classic. Mostly bass and drums, some guitar and a few bells. That's it. Leon had the main parts of the song down in 1971.

    • @user-lh9do6on7n
      @user-lh9do6on7n 2 місяці тому

      Rufus Fools Paradise?

  • @cliffordbeverly3551
    @cliffordbeverly3551 Рік тому +8

    July 2022, Who's Here!?- This Harmony is therapeutic!. Love&respect to Mom(Ms.Shirley)& Pop(Mr. Leon) Sylvers.

  • @tonicody4712
    @tonicody4712 Рік тому +12

    They🎤 SING!!! SO "BEAUTIFUL"♥️♥️♥️ Don't Y'all! "AGREE"???🤗💅💅💅👍

  • @electrofunk5442
    @electrofunk5442 Рік тому +4

    I still have my Boogie Fever & Hot Line singles from 76 and 77. I LOVED it WHEN THEY WERE ON Merv Griffin when Boogie Fever were hits.

  • @humanaddictions
    @humanaddictions 2 роки тому +18

    I grew up in an all white small midwestern town, and motown, Elvis, and Classic Rock boomed throughout our house. One of my first 45s was Boogie Fever, and I stood in front of my floor to ceiling mirror day after day perfecting my dance routine, playing that 45 over and over until I felt comfortable enough to play it at recess for the rest of the class and do my dance routine. I got bullied a lot because I listened to "Black" music. It didn't bother me, though, nor did it stop me from dancing. I mean, after all, we had the same last name, even though mine last name was spelled a little different. The Sylvers, as well as many other Motown hits formed me as I grew up, and I am so thankful for that......

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  Місяць тому

      Ceiling mirror Yikes 😳

    • @humanaddictions
      @humanaddictions Місяць тому

      @@PetePeterkin No, the mirror wasn't on the ceiling, just from the floor to the ceiling on one wall. I would have loved mirrors on the ceiling, though..

  • @elwin38
    @elwin38 2 місяці тому +1

    The Sylvers will always be a part of my childhood!!🎶🎶✊🏾Proud to be a 70's kid!!

  • @winsbeyond8295
    @winsbeyond8295 2 роки тому +18

    Appreciate this video! Huge Sylvers fan. My favorite era was indeed The Sylvers I, II, and III era!

  • @drummerc1795
    @drummerc1795 2 роки тому +27

    Omg, this was so wonderful. You did such a great job putting it together and I learned so much about the Sylvers that I was not aware of. They, like the Stairsteps, were so talented. I really hope you do more of these and thank you so much.

  • @syn-thee-yah9503
    @syn-thee-yah9503 2 роки тому +11

    Wow!! Absolute superbness! I’m a woman and fan in my late 50”s now, but the Sylvers were the baddest, most beautiful, exciting to watch, musically gifted by God, and magnificently talented family I had ever seen. They are a forever gem in R & B music history, although not receiving nearly as much recognition as they should’ve had. I come from a family of 11, and we all danced and clubbed to the Sylvers. Those Afros were 🔥🔥🔥🔥. Beautiful family; love the chemistry, strength, and love among them through all they’ve been through. Hey, is Leon available…… Lol! All them brothers are gorgeous, but I had mad love for that particular one back in the day……… Lol!! Thank you Sylvers for bringing so much groove and joy to millions and millions of lives you influenced and impacted throughout the decades! God bless you all today! Thank you for this production! What a treat 🤗🤗🤗!

  • @robinbarber49
    @robinbarber49 2 роки тому +18

    You did that! Thank you for highlighting my favorite group of all time.

  • @vintage7919
    @vintage7919 2 роки тому +22

    30 minuets of pure greatness. You did the damn thing with this one. The Sylvers have been slept on for sooooooo long . Its about time people wake up and give them their flowers because they truly deserve and worked hard for it💐💐💐 . Hopefully we'll get another short movie on The Sylvers -Into The Disco because that was their most underrated era in my opinion.

    • @lorindaswann5797
      @lorindaswann5797 Рік тому +1

      You are so right! They are a bad group and I mean good

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  Рік тому

      A lot of the visuals were taken from their disco shows We thought audio wise that the pre- disco era had stronger more innovative songwriting

  • @oRuTRa45
    @oRuTRa45 2 роки тому +20

    I appreciate the shout out to James Jonathan. He contributed some real gems. "I'll Never Be Ashamed Again" is one of my favorite songs from the first LP. Also "Could Be You" and "Wish You Were Here (Next To Me)" from The Sylvers III, the latter of which is one of my favorite songs from that album. I can never listen to that one just once.

    • @mocancer8485
      @mocancer8485 Рік тому +3

      Love I'll NEVER BE ASHAMED AGAIN

    • @DeeNice681
      @DeeNice681 16 днів тому

      He sang lead on one of my favorite songs by them ‘Even This Shall Pass Away’!

  • @SS-ii6nz
    @SS-ii6nz День тому

    The legendary Sylvers. I love learning about the history of a talented family group that should have gotten the same exposure like the Jacksons. The music industry picked one group like gold and completely tossed the Sylvers aside. My family was huge fans that loved their voices and how cute they were. This talented group should be honored and given their flowers for being one of the most well respected talented groups from the era of professional musicians. 🎶 🕺 💃 Cry Of A Dreamer is my favorite song.

  • @patrickwilliams5465
    @patrickwilliams5465 2 роки тому +9

    What an excellent! Brilliant video. Well done!!!! As a fan of the Sylvers I really enjoyed your video presentation. The ending was a beautiful tribute as well.

  • @debbiehampton3997
    @debbiehampton3997 Рік тому +5

    I love the 70s , we wore the best clothes, best hair style, I got a chance to see so .... many great groups at Madison Square garden, I never got a chance to see the sylvers in person , but bought there album , watch them on so many varieties show soul train, midnight special, American bandstand I love there mannerism so polite and she like the Jackson family. I always thought they were all great singers and had great harmony. , this family was really great, record companies did them wrong. the sisters were gorgeous and the brothers were fine, this was the good old day's, girl didn't have to show a certain body part I love the way they dress. All the groups , bands and solo artists ,

  • @saundraking7168
    @saundraking7168 Рік тому +3

    I have never seen the Sylvers like this. I saw them live in 1978 when filming The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh. Foster was so young and not all of them were there.

  • @crystalvspivey-briggs7959
    @crystalvspivey-briggs7959 Рік тому +4

    Been listen to these wonderful group since I was 10 and my twin brothers were five and loves them. I miss the Sylvers. Thank you Peter. Wow! Song 🕊

  • @valeriesleet5221
    @valeriesleet5221 2 роки тому +10

    Love it ., Yes Edmund had the dance steps I just don’t see anymore and that split with no hands ., not to mention when he swings that mic around., so sad he’s not with us anymore on earth ., but he is in our hearts & mind., I play the Sylvers everyday just to hear Edmund voice” forever yours, Love won’t let me go & time are my favorite ., I love all The Sylvers and the other songs., but Edmund has always been my heart & Ricky💜

    • @lorindaswann5797
      @lorindaswann5797 Рік тому +1

      Hey! I watch them too everyday on youtube. They are my favorite group. EDMUND was so very handsome and talented. He surely will always be missed

    • @conniehollins3185
      @conniehollins3185 3 місяці тому

      The Sylvers are Friends of mine. You made me recall something Angie told me years ago. She said one time on stage Edmund flung the Mic. It hit Pat right in the nose. Lol...

  • @oRuTRa45
    @oRuTRa45 2 роки тому +9

    Wow! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Bravo, Pete! Bravo! I loved the video! Great tribute to my favorite era of the best family group. Yeah, I said it! The best!

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  2 роки тому +4

      Yes NO auto tune. No bringing in session singers to fill in the harmony. No reliance on staff songwriters during this period This was pure magic. Share it with friends. Peace ✌️

  • @wblk
    @wblk 2 роки тому +14

    This is an awesome tribute to the Sylvers. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing it.

  • @SQDLVR
    @SQDLVR 2 роки тому +7

    Wow!!! Love the Sylvers.

  • @slady7072
    @slady7072 2 роки тому +6

    Edmund and I share the same birthday😎🥰😎🥰🧚🏾‍♀️🎂🎂🎂

  • @cirellaw
    @cirellaw 2 роки тому +5

    Sylver-Fros, were naturals ( or bushes ) six inches or more. Rickey Sylvers was over 36 inches.

  • @JustLex98
    @JustLex98 Рік тому +2

    The first 3 albums are no doubt my favorite albums from the Sylvers. They can seriously write. They are just criminally underrated as their recognition goes, but I am certainly glad to see their footprint is still in the sand with some of the newer music artists of today.

  • @melindamaybe8713
    @melindamaybe8713 16 днів тому +1

    I loved this walk down memory lane. I am glad that you focused on the magic and the talent of the family group, and not the down times. This was good, clean entertainment back then. Foster always amazed me how he could keep up with his older siblings. lol. 💙❤💜

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  14 днів тому

      Yes I wanted to focus on the positive. Glad you liked the video Please pass it on

    • @melindamaybe8713
      @melindamaybe8713 14 днів тому

      @@PetePeterkin I will. 💜

  • @bnb7368
    @bnb7368 Рік тому +4

    Beautifully made. Leon Sylvers is a musical genius. I love the, truly talented, Sylvers.

  • @donnamims2545
    @donnamims2545 2 роки тому +8

    This was very well done. Thank you! Pete. Truly enjoyed this video. Extremely talented group. Love the Sylvers. ❤

  • @JGSuttonJr
    @JGSuttonJr Рік тому +5

    They also played all of their instruments.

  • @bjackson1904
    @bjackson1904 Рік тому +3

    Thank you for sharing the Sylvers with us. My favorite songs were “Misdemeanor” & of course that beautiful rendition of “Yesterday!” What a talented family they are!!!

  • @mikesweeney5619
    @mikesweeney5619 2 роки тому +9

    Back when Music was REALLY music!!!!! not like the crap we have today!!!

  • @clrs6576
    @clrs6576 Місяць тому

    i remember first hearing cry of a dreamer, i was going through a strange time and it literally felt like they were talking to/about me, still resonates with me to this day, maybe the most beautiful song I've ever heard

  • @crsmith845
    @crsmith845 5 місяців тому +2

    Leon sure is a genius Amazing songs he wrote for other singers Love the. Sylvers💖🎼🎸 I had a crush on. Ricky!

    • @conniehollins3185
      @conniehollins3185 3 місяці тому

      Ricky is a sweetheart. Leon sings background on Blackstreet's song, "Before I let you go away".

  • @thecindydavisshow
    @thecindydavisshow 2 роки тому +6

    Awesome production!

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  2 роки тому +2

      That's awesome coming from you. I really admire your work as well/ Maybe we'll do something together in the future/ Peace

  • @clarascott5264
    @clarascott5264 6 місяців тому +1

    My favorite group of all time their harmonies were off the chain and all the family was so talented and beautiful very underrated they
    should have been
    up there with the
    Jackson’s God bless them all 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

  • @mariaazucenafuentessevilla1540
    @mariaazucenafuentessevilla1540 2 роки тому +3

    Está hermosa realización dió vueltas por todo el mundo,me atrevo a decir que fue el mejor grupo esas canciones realmente insuperable cuánto me encanta este grupo hoy por si siempre lo escucho 2022insuperable!!!!!💯💯🌟

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  2 роки тому +1

      I don't translate but it looks good / Thanks

  • @ericbarnes2930
    @ericbarnes2930 7 місяців тому

    Oh lord.... FINALLY!! I grew up with my older sister exposing me to the Sylvers in the early 70's, when everyone was being bedazzled by the Jackson 5, the Stairsteps, etc.

  • @conniehollins3185
    @conniehollins3185 3 місяці тому

    Thank you for posting this. The Sylvers are friends of mine. I have learned so much knowing them. The stories I have heard from them are priceless. I wish one of them would write a book. All of their recollections are not pretty. They need a Biopic for real.

  • @vinniemcgheesr.5294
    @vinniemcgheesr.5294 3 місяці тому +1

    One of my favorite family groups besides the Jacksons and Debarge

  • @mjum9014
    @mjum9014 2 місяці тому +1

    "Wish That I Could Talk To You" (written by Leon Sylvers) was the cut back in the day. I just wish they had better management/representation because Leon would have taken them to the next level with his songwriting and producing. For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about just look at their Unsung documentary.

  • @shakagirvan4501
    @shakagirvan4501 9 місяців тому +2

    soon as they invent the Time Machine , Im headed straight to 73 , to shoot my shot at Olympia

  • @cityrayman
    @cityrayman Місяць тому

    My favorite song by this talented family is "The Unfinished Letter. Very smooth harmonies.

  • @jeffalger5237
    @jeffalger5237 2 роки тому +7

    This was put together so well.

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  2 роки тому +4

      Thanks Jeff// Don't forget to share ok?

  • @getthehotstuff6292
    @getthehotstuff6292 8 місяців тому +1

    I loved your video. I still listen to Sylvers I, II and III to this day. Their harmonies were impeccable!

  • @starsworldwide
    @starsworldwide 2 роки тому +3

    Great Job! I never noticed it before you brought it out.. I can definitely see where Prince was probably influenced by Edmond's movements to say the least..

  • @nexxlevel4590
    @nexxlevel4590 Рік тому +6

    Charmaine was sooo fine

  • @Themaddprof
    @Themaddprof 2 роки тому +8

    Magnificent, and very nostalgic for those of us who were 70s children. Very well put together. By the way, what was the first song in the video?

  • @debrahumphrey5843
    @debrahumphrey5843 11 місяців тому +2

    All I can say, this is awesome!!! Ohh, how I miss my turntable.

  • @carlscott7533
    @carlscott7533 2 роки тому +4

    Thanks for the lovely upload, great work.

  • @audreydavis6500
    @audreydavis6500 Рік тому +1

    You right Edmond was ahead of his time Michael and Prince rest in peace to all your three gorgeous and thank you for what y'all gave to the world

  • @chillyg4592
    @chillyg4592 10 місяців тому

    I absolutely agree with you 100%. The most talented group pound for pound. The complexity and maturity of their songs were phenomenal.

  • @georgecrenshaw6309
    @georgecrenshaw6309 Рік тому +2

    It's been researched that the lion with the biggest mane usually maintains the pride. That's why bros with the biggest 'fros (and rastas with the biggest dreads) are the most powerful leaders of their group.

  • @debraburrows8435
    @debraburrows8435 2 роки тому +4

    Nice

  • @_P_M_
    @_P_M_ 7 місяців тому

    Those chord progressions are amazing. I had Boogie Fever on 45 as a kid, but I never caught on to the brilliant song writing until much later. Their music was accessible but never dumbed down. I don't think they ever got their due. Nice tribute.

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  7 місяців тому

      Point was Boogie Fever was a fun FINACIAL necessity and NOT an artistic triumph

  • @j.ahayward7245
    @j.ahayward7245 3 місяці тому +1

    Stay Away From Me was the Bomb The beat was off the hook.

  • @jeffalger5237
    @jeffalger5237 2 роки тому +5

    Very smooth

  • @leeleeloveshurdcrew
    @leeleeloveshurdcrew Рік тому +1

    You’re still cool & gorgeous! Thank you for this❤️👌🏾👑

  • @ryanssongrs
    @ryanssongrs 2 роки тому +3

    I was a god supper big no could mess with me 🔥

  • @reggiemunch
    @reggiemunch 6 місяців тому

    I ALWAYS did and will they are the most underrated family of all time in my opinion. J5 had the industry on lock . So they weren't popularized. But it had nothing to do with their awe striking talent.

  • @dwainwilder7337
    @dwainwilder7337 9 місяців тому

    Great compilation! Including a great ending with the Grouch segment.

  • @terrence8059
    @terrence8059 2 роки тому +1

    ooh this is Marvelous Mane thank you soooo much for this wonderful Ride.Salute my brother

  • @waynefoote3781
    @waynefoote3781 21 день тому

    FREESTYLE!!!!

  • @slv-tv5290
    @slv-tv5290 Рік тому

    Wow! This was fantastic!!

  • @saundraking7168
    @saundraking7168 Рік тому +1

    Peter Peterkin looks like a Wayans

  • @MissSweetCaviar
    @MissSweetCaviar Рік тому

    I LOVE the story about your Afro!! 😂😂

  • @XAVIERAZADI
    @XAVIERAZADI Місяць тому

    👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾✌🏾✌🏾✌🏾✌🏾

  • @eliseshaw6993
    @eliseshaw6993 7 місяців тому

    Wow

  • @lorindaswann5797
    @lorindaswann5797 Рік тому

    This one of the most bad video! Love ❤️❤️😘❤️💯 Lorinda

  • @robertconnor9884
    @robertconnor9884 8 місяців тому

    This comment is BEFORE I even view the video. I want to THANK YOU!!!

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  8 місяців тому +1

      What did you think after?

    • @robertconnor9884
      @robertconnor9884 8 місяців тому

      @PetePeterkin - It was fun, informative and mostly nostalgic. Thanks for posting! ✌️

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  8 місяців тому +1

      Thanks@@robertconnor9884

  • @DouglasWimberly-xp3mx
    @DouglasWimberly-xp3mx 6 місяців тому +1

    Ladies and gentlemen and low life LET ME TELL YOU DAT MY FATHER TOOK ME AND MY COUSIN TO SEE THE SYLVERS AND JIMMY CASTOR AND THE FUNKY BUNCH AT MADISON SQURE GARDEN DAT WAS A MAGICAL MOMENT FOR ME TO SEE THE NXT JACKSON FIVE OK AND WHEN I WAS 7 YR OLD MY MOTHER TOOK ME TO APOLLO AND I SAW THE JACKSON FIVE AT THE APOLLO DAT BLEW MY MIND COMPLETELY IMA DUDE BUT MICHEAL JACKSON WHEN HE WAS A LITTLE BOY HE WAS DAT DUDE AND FOSTER SYLVER REMIND ME OF LITTLE MICHEAL JACKSON WHEN FOSTER SYLVER SING COTTON CANDY U WOULD SWARE DAT MICHEAL JACKSON I GIVE MUCH AND MUCH TO A GROUP I GREW UP TO LOVE OK THE SYLVERS IS ONE OF THE BEST GROUP DAT EVER CAME OUT BESIDE THE JACKSON FIVE THE BEATLE THE BEACH BOYS THE BEE GEES THE DOOBIE BROTHERS HALL AND OATS THOSE GROUP I NAME THE SYLVERS GAVE THOSE GROUP A RUN FOR THERE MONEY MUCH RESPECT TO MY CHILDHOOD GROUP THE SYLVERS I SALUE YOU FOREVER

  • @dennismclaurin1487
    @dennismclaurin1487 2 роки тому +1

    6-5-22 viewer

  • @rda6029
    @rda6029 4 місяці тому

    Loved the Sylvers! I think their problem was that they used too many different lead singers!
    They should've just had Foster be lead singer for one group and had a second girl group for the sisters!

  • @ertfgghhhh
    @ertfgghhhh 4 місяці тому

    Here is a question no one answers: although leon was a premiere writer and producer for Griffey's label, why wasn't he allowed to give his family better songs and push their careers successfully to at least the minto latter 80s? Come Back lover wasn't a bonafide hit and should've been pushed. Foster had the look. Or was the problem within the family? Many times people don't respect and trust the family member/person they are familiar with. Maybe it was too hard for leon to work with and get along with the family/ too many who wanted to be the chef in the kitchen

  • @theartistmind7028
    @theartistmind7028 2 роки тому +5

    Boogie fever is not my favorite at all ....I love their first three albums the most

    • @namersongs
      @namersongs Рік тому +3

      That is why this was done/ Many feel the same

  • @rexrush5594
    @rexrush5594 2 роки тому +4

    Comparing Edmund and Prince, that’s too much of a stretch to me and quite frankly an insult…

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  2 роки тому +8

      Yes I feel your comment. I should’ve been more clear that Edmund was but one of many of Princes influences. Things were quite different before Prince got his deal There was a look and a way of dancing that put The Sylvers at the top of the food chain. Even Michael Jackson told Edmund backstage after his moonwalk performance at Motown 25 that him and his family used to scare the hell out of him I find it difficult to believe Prince was totally oblivious to what Edmund was doing upfront. Bringing back the mighty SPLITS in his dance routines a few years BEFORE the move became a Prince trademark . Yes Sly Stone / Mick Jagger / James Brown & Jimi Hendrix were his main influences but for a year or 2 early Prince sure as hell LOOKED and danced more like Edmund on his first album /// ( Albums ...wow .. remember those ? lol )

    • @rexrush5594
      @rexrush5594 2 роки тому +5

      Yeah I think that not only Edmund but the other Sylvers also influenced Prince. They were great n I still love them just as regular people, aside from entertaining. Still UA-cam their music n performances n pray that they’re all doing as well as can be expected.

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  2 роки тому +3

      @@rexrush5594 Haha thanks. I’m sure they’ll read this

    • @cah8124
      @cah8124 Рік тому +2

      Prince is my favorite artist but I have to admit some of his and Michael’s moves remind me of what Edmund was doing before they were. I humbly give credit where it is due. This group just did not get the credit they deserve. I am so glad that people are discovering their unmatched talent and beauty.

    • @rexrush5594
      @rexrush5594 Рік тому +1

      @@cah8124 agreed

  • @ertfgghhhh
    @ertfgghhhh 4 місяці тому

    Edmund and Prince got those splits from JAMES BROWN. Prince was more james brown and edmund more disco

    • @PetePeterkin
      @PetePeterkin  4 місяці тому

      They were BOTH James Brown. James was still doing splits through disco Nobody to my knowledge did a no hands split while singing other than Edmund

    • @ertfgghhhh
      @ertfgghhhh 4 місяці тому

      @@PetePeterkin although disco was indeed a black genre hijacked by others (which I also loved), jb was fonky among all others. Edmund was more disco while prince was more fonky
      I guess we see things differently, and that is okay. Perhaps it was the coke and women that limited edmund, but he seemingly more disco which limited him from transitioning out of it. He did disco pretty well but not funk as a solo artist. Prince was so fonky that he got kicked off of rick james' tour due to jealousy. And rick was fonkay, honey

  • @RobRoyR8R
    @RobRoyR8R Рік тому

    Prince did not copy Edmond R.I.P Prince and Bruce Lee are classically trained ballet dancers.

  • @eduardocantu7441
    @eduardocantu7441 Рік тому

    ed is the original way way better than all of them other singers hes brothers are equal to him family

  • @donmilland7606
    @donmilland7606 7 місяців тому +2

    I think you had to grow up doing the 70s to fully appreciate them. I mean growing up in the context of music at that time. Their demise regrettably was bad management, lackluster marketing, and sheer exploitation. Imagine if they did just one of those songs Leon wrote for the Whispers or Salimar.