I built a 7 twist 22-250 that I use these 88's in. I sent back a box with that same lot # to Hornady , it had 9 tips off. They never did tell me what the problem was but did send me a new box of 88's. The tips were in the box.I checked some rounds that I already loaded out of that box and some of the tips broke off with very little force. I'm sure they could come off when you shot them , in the barrel or in flight. I also had 1 in a box of 6mm 108's. Scott
Them using a different propellant in 7mm PRC (due to shortages) without informing the public was a pretty stupid move by them. That sort of thing weakens trust. The result was a pretty significant drop in velocity over the published box data.
A bullet with no tip would cause a point of impact change, a bullet loosing it’s tip after discharge will cause aerodynamic instability. When Hornady first determined their tips were dissolving in flight the company changed the tip formula geto a harder compound. I did a lot of experimenting with tip damage and concluded that the ogive had more to do with bullet flight than the tip. The exception would be the tip coming off in flight.
Ive got 1k of that lot number. I have had a few in each box so far that have broken or missing tips. I thought it was just me or the boxes got rattled too much. Good to know im not the only one. Keep me in the loop on what Hornady says and i'll reach out to them if things turn out okay with support.
Funny I got a 500 of the exact same bullet probably 5 years ago. Same exact issue then! Contacted customer service and they said it’s a known issue and wouldn’t give me a solution.
I had issues with the 88 tips hitting the end of my seating stems in several different seating dies. Was having the exact same issues! Drilled out the stems on the lathe and fixed the issue. Also tried a hornady “tip” that i heard a long time ago, and bedded a bullet into the seating stem for a custom fit. Not as big of fan of that, but did produce very low runout.
I have had problems with Midways "Nitro " shipping in the past with ammo just rolling around in the box and not even all there because the 2 bubbles they put in the box aren't adequate.
1st Merry Christmas Rob Reloading they all do that during feeding I only have this problem with my 22ARC and 224 Valkyrie ARs I ve never found any in the box with broken tips but the ones I fired with broken tips always impact way below target at distance
You shouldn't have that issue when feeding, unless you have a feeding issue. I've shot thousands of rounds of tipped bullets in ARs for decades with no problems
@ so have I thousands and thousands no problems, I am having feeding issues only during feeding as I stated in the comment and only with the .224 88gr ELDs in those 2 calibers with only the 88gr ELDs I have tried 3 different brand magazines all supposed to be made for the 22 ARC/6ARC/6.5 Grendel or .224 Valkyrie/6.8 SPC both rifles have adjustable gas blocks, last round lock back and eject perfectly to the 3 o’clock so no timing and gas issues, no hangover or recess of barrel extension where protrudes into upper receiver and aligns perfectly flat with upper receiver and lower so only thing I can deduct is the design/angle of the feed ramps by the barrel manufacturer with the longer narrower.224 88gr ELDs causing them to ramp into just above the chamber making forceful contact thus breaking the tips off just before either causing the rifle to jam up I made a video showing all this with all the broken tips laying on my mat after removing the mag then they fall out the mag well or get jammed up in the lugs not letting the bolt chamber the next round fully or even causing dents in the case shoulder area making the cartridge unshootable I can shoot the .224 62gr ELD vt fine no issues this only happens with only 88gr ELDs thank you
@bnicedanicest6288 Yeah, I think you're spot on with that deduction. I've not shot that particular bullet and I usually tune my metal mags to whatever rounds I'm running in a particular upper. If you haven't tried that it's worth a go. Can be finicky with dual feed mags but it is doable. If you're okay with disassembly and reassembly you can mark inside the chamber with paint to see if and where the round might be impacting. Easy enough to get it out with a solvent especially when disassembled. My Grendel fought me when I got it initially, don't recall exactly what the last tweak was to fix it but it's given me over a decade of service since with no issues. But I did tune my mags, which were old C products mags I think. But given other rounds feed fine for you it's probably just the length and shape of the bullet. The curve of the bullet ogive could also be riding on the feed ramps in such a way that it points the tip up too high. It would be worth contacting Hornady about to see if they've got suggestions
@@bnicedanicest6288 One more thing, have you tried playing with seating depth? I run Berger's and most other bullets at 2.260 but I have to run A-Max's/ELD-match bullets at 2.245 or 2.250 to get them to cycle correctly
What's funny when the ELD bullets first came out, I wanted to try them in some 22cal platforms, but they hadn't released any yet. I emailed them & asked when they would be releasing them. They replied that they would not be releasing any ELD in 22cal as there would be no benfits from the ELD in 22cal. That's when I knew the whole thing was a gimmick & I've been proven right over the years.
I gave up on the ELD-M a cpl years ago, could never get them to shoot worth a crap no matter what I tried. Never found any broken tips, just found tips in the box.
Interesting I just had one like this in the 143eldx for 6.5prc and another in 145eldx for the 270. I didn't pay close attention to see if more in box. I've reloaded 1000's and haven't noticed. I was going to shoot mine for the heck of it but probably won't now. Something in quality got missed.
The wake from the flyer seemed a little large, like the jacket was trying to come apart. I’ve never had the 88’s that fast. I can confirm that the 108’s have their limit in each barrel, usually around 3175 in a 1:7 twist barrel I’ll get 1 in every 5 or so failures.
If a tip is loose enough before firing, I can imagine the extreme RPM may cause that tip to get ripped off (spinning out of concentric like an out-of-balance tire) and possibly destabilize that round in flight.
I broke a couple of 88 tips when I was playing with 224 Valkyrie in an AR. I spun some apart in a 22 Creedmoor 1:7. The spin apart bullets don't show trace all the way to the target. They will show a little cloud not far down range. Personal experience makes me believe the shot completely off target was a non-tipped bullet.
I had to stop using the ELD-M bullets altogether due to seeing them blow up in flight several times. The jackets can't hold up to the modern twist rates and horsepower of a lot of cartridges. Usually you actually see a puff of smoke about 40 yards in front of you when they blow apart. I have personally seen it several times out of 7mm's and 6.5 calibers. I totally stopped using them.
this 22gt barrel is starting to remind me of a 222 i have. it will shoot the group of just about any load into a bughole. sgter that it was mostly 5/8 to 3/4 groups. i tried four different bullets, every primer, and four or five different powders. it drove me nuts. Hopefully these 88's work out good. merry Christmas, and thanks for the videos.
Hornady has dropped their game with quality control I've had the same with 7mm 162grn ELDM, 7mm08 factory ammo that wouldn't chamber in two different rifles and .223 factory ammo that wouldn't fire
Definitely a QC issue with those tips. I haven't tried this specific bullet yet as they are likely a bit long for my 1-8" twist 22-250 Ackley to stabilize. Even if I loaded them hot at 3300fps they would be just marginally stabilized with an SG of 1.12 using Berger's twist rate stability calculator. I have shot some of the 85.5gr Berger Hybrids at just over 3200fps and they shot very well out to 300yds (range's max) even though said calculator also shows they're marginally stabilized with a 1.32 SG.
I've had nosler AB lose the tips about 6 or 7 out of 50 i just used for fouler i order 220 swift from Hornady awhile back and the bag was missing one case so i email Hornady and they said sorry can't help but how about a hat and i told them i cant put a hat in my chamber and shoot it and about a week later one 220 swift case showed up in the mail.
Just started playing with a 22arc and was thinking about using the 88s. One thing you didn't mention was, are the tips down at the bottom of the box? Or are they having a production issue and not even getting into the box with the tips?
I’ve never had the tips just broken off in the box, I’ve been through at least 6 lots and around 1500 of the 88’s. I’ll bet Hornady will make it right.
My 22arc will break a tip off an 88 every other shot,tje tip will get crushed between the shoulder of the cases and wall of my chamber fenting my shoulder and sometimes it'll still go into battery snd firs eithout me knowing..not good..ill never buy tipped Hornady .224 and thing again..the 70cx perhaps because they shoot very well.. but failures like this eill absolutely send me off looking for a better product from a different manufacturer..
Sounds like a bad lot of bullets. Contact Hornady, and they will treat you right. About 4 years ago, I had some issues with bad 140gr ELD Match bullets. They would break apart in flight, and some would hit the target sideways. Sometimes they let bad bullets out. If you contact them, they will treat you right. I bought a couple thousand of these 88gr ELD match bullets over a year ago, and they have been perfect. They were sold in 250 pc baggies through Mid South. No issues at all with those ones, and they work damn well in my 1 in 8" twist 22-250.
This is why I will never shoot another Hornady bullet. I have had tips break off, hunting bullets not seat properly, and bullets impact the target sideways, just to name a few of the issues I have had with Hornady bullets. IMO they are cheap crap bullets that will never see the inside of my rifles again.
My friend leave hornady. Rather use berger, sierra and nosler. I am from South Africa and getting hornady bullets with out tips in the box , v- max 87gr 6mm and eldm . 🎉
Not always but most of the time polymer tipped bullets are not intended for competition long range. I would just say this.I do not know anybody who is winning on an elite level using Is using that name brand bullet.
The 88 eldm and the 80 eldx are very finicky bullets.... i have zero issues with the 80 eldm and 75 eldm. Then again i only use hornady if my gun dosnt shoot berger wich is rare
Not sure if the video author is going for ultimate BC and target focus, or wants to have a hunting sled. Either way, target projectiles work wonderfully on game as well. People don't believe that because of marketing. Marketing has to comply with the Hague Convention for military purposes, it has nothing to do with the supposed ineffectiveness of their construction for game.
I bought 6mm 103 eldm that shot inconsistent. Bullet base to ogive vary 5 to 7 thousands. Never had this problem with their 105 Amax or bthp Went back to the 105 bthp's.
Would rather you took the issue up with Hornady first before airing the issue. Not discounting the problem but the way you handled it. Let us know what Hornady says.
Merry Christmas and this is why I stick to the yellow boxes
I agree 🎉
Green and Yellow you can’t go wrong.
I built a 7 twist 22-250 that I use these 88's in. I sent back a box with that same lot # to Hornady , it had 9 tips off. They never did tell me what the problem was but did send me a new box of 88's. The tips were in the box.I checked some rounds that I already loaded out of that box and some of the tips broke off with very little force. I'm sure they could come off when you shot them , in the barrel or in flight. I also had 1 in a box of 6mm 108's.
Scott
I have a box with that same lot number. Inside are 8 with broken tips.
@@pjjd65 did u reach out to them?
@@RobsReloading I have not contacted them yet. I will do it to see what they say.
I've been blown away by Hornady customer service in the past, I really hope they still stand by their products.
Them using a different propellant in 7mm PRC (due to shortages) without informing the public was a pretty stupid move by them. That sort of thing weakens trust. The result was a pretty significant drop in velocity over the published box data.
A bullet with no tip would cause a point of impact change, a bullet loosing it’s tip after discharge will cause aerodynamic instability. When Hornady first determined their tips were dissolving in flight the company changed the tip formula geto a harder compound. I did a lot of experimenting with tip damage and concluded that the ogive had more to do with bullet flight than the tip. The exception would be the tip coming off in flight.
Ive got 1k of that lot number. I have had a few in each box so far that have broken or missing tips. I thought it was just me or the boxes got rattled too much. Good to know im not the only one. Keep me in the loop on what Hornady says and i'll reach out to them if things turn out okay with support.
Funny I got a 500 of the exact same bullet probably 5 years ago. Same exact issue then! Contacted customer service and they said it’s a known issue and wouldn’t give me a solution.
I had issues with the 88 tips hitting the end of my seating stems in several different seating dies. Was having the exact same issues! Drilled out the stems on the lathe and fixed the issue. Also tried a hornady “tip” that i heard a long time ago, and bedded a bullet into the seating stem for a custom fit. Not as big of fan of that, but did produce very low runout.
I have had problems with Midways "Nitro " shipping in the past with ammo just rolling around in the box and not even all there because the 2 bubbles they put in the box aren't adequate.
Oh really? I've never had issues with Midway. But most of the bullets I've ordered are in smaller bags and boxes so it wouldn't really be an issue
😂😅@@DanielReyes-hz1qk
Same issue here, and I even reached out to them. Despite their oppology and promises, no change was made to my next delivery, so I no longer use them.
1st Merry Christmas Rob Reloading they all do that during feeding I only have this problem with my 22ARC and 224 Valkyrie ARs I ve never found any in the box with broken tips but the ones I fired with broken tips always impact way below target at distance
You shouldn't have that issue when feeding, unless you have a feeding issue. I've shot thousands of rounds of tipped bullets in ARs for decades with no problems
@ so have I thousands and thousands no problems, I am having feeding issues only during feeding as I stated in the comment and only with the .224 88gr ELDs in those 2 calibers with only the 88gr ELDs I have tried 3 different brand magazines all supposed to be made for the 22 ARC/6ARC/6.5 Grendel or .224 Valkyrie/6.8 SPC both rifles have adjustable gas blocks, last round lock back and eject perfectly to the 3 o’clock so no timing and gas issues, no hangover or recess of barrel extension where protrudes into upper receiver and aligns perfectly flat with upper receiver and lower so only thing I can deduct is the design/angle of the feed ramps by the barrel manufacturer with the longer narrower.224 88gr ELDs causing them to ramp into just above the chamber making forceful contact thus breaking the tips off just before either causing the rifle to jam up I made a video showing all this with all the broken tips laying on my mat after removing the mag then they fall out the mag well or get jammed up in the lugs not letting the bolt chamber the next round fully or even causing dents in the case shoulder area making the cartridge unshootable I can shoot the .224 62gr ELD vt fine no issues this only happens with only 88gr ELDs thank you
@bnicedanicest6288 Yeah, I think you're spot on with that deduction. I've not shot that particular bullet and I usually tune my metal mags to whatever rounds I'm running in a particular upper. If you haven't tried that it's worth a go. Can be finicky with dual feed mags but it is doable. If you're okay with disassembly and reassembly you can mark inside the chamber with paint to see if and where the round might be impacting. Easy enough to get it out with a solvent especially when disassembled. My Grendel fought me when I got it initially, don't recall exactly what the last tweak was to fix it but it's given me over a decade of service since with no issues. But I did tune my mags, which were old C products mags I think. But given other rounds feed fine for you it's probably just the length and shape of the bullet. The curve of the bullet ogive could also be riding on the feed ramps in such a way that it points the tip up too high. It would be worth contacting Hornady about to see if they've got suggestions
@@bnicedanicest6288 One more thing, have you tried playing with seating depth? I run Berger's and most other bullets at 2.260 but I have to run A-Max's/ELD-match bullets at 2.245 or 2.250 to get them to cycle correctly
Problems with hornandy bullets isn't rare.
I use hornandy as cheap blaster bullets now and Berger or Sierra for important stuff
What's funny when the ELD bullets first came out, I wanted to try them in some 22cal platforms, but they hadn't released any yet. I emailed them & asked when they would be releasing them. They replied that they would not be releasing any ELD in 22cal as there would be no benfits from the ELD in 22cal. That's when I knew the whole thing was a gimmick & I've been proven right over the years.
I gave up on the ELD-M a cpl years ago, could never get them to shoot worth a crap no matter what I tried. Never found any broken tips, just found tips in the box.
Interesting I just had one like this in the 143eldx for 6.5prc and another in 145eldx for the 270. I didn't pay close attention to see if more in box. I've reloaded 1000's and haven't noticed. I was going to shoot mine for the heck of it but probably won't now. Something in quality got missed.
The wake from the flyer seemed a little large, like the jacket was trying to come apart. I’ve never had the 88’s that fast. I can confirm that the 108’s have their limit in each barrel, usually around 3175 in a 1:7 twist barrel I’ll get 1 in every 5 or so failures.
You missed one, there was another one at bottom left of screen.
I have encountered the same issue with the Hornady 6.5 MM, 147 grain ELD -M bullets.
If a tip is loose enough before firing, I can imagine the extreme RPM may cause that tip to get ripped off (spinning out of concentric like an out-of-balance tire) and possibly destabilize that round in flight.
I broke a couple of 88 tips when I was playing with 224 Valkyrie in an AR. I spun some apart in a 22 Creedmoor 1:7. The spin apart bullets don't show trace all the way to the target. They will show a little cloud not far down range. Personal experience makes me believe the shot completely off target was a non-tipped bullet.
I had to stop using the ELD-M bullets altogether due to seeing them blow up in flight several times. The jackets can't hold up to the modern twist rates and horsepower of a lot of cartridges. Usually you actually see a puff of smoke about 40 yards in front of you when they blow apart. I have personally seen it several times out of 7mm's and 6.5 calibers. I totally stopped using them.
When you had the box dumped out I spotted another one without a tip😳
I had this problem horrible in 2020 when I first tried them in my 300 win mag. I was hand loading the 208 gr.
this 22gt barrel is starting to remind me of a 222 i have. it will shoot the group of just about any load into a bughole. sgter that it was mostly 5/8 to 3/4 groups. i tried four different bullets, every primer, and four or five different powders. it drove me nuts. Hopefully these 88's work out good. merry Christmas, and thanks for the videos.
I’ve bought a couple hundred of the 80gr ELD M seconds from Midway and haven’t found one missing the tip in the boxes.
Hornady has dropped their game with quality control I've had the same with 7mm 162grn ELDM, 7mm08 factory ammo that wouldn't chamber in two different rifles and .223 factory ammo that wouldn't fire
Definitely a QC issue with those tips. I haven't tried this specific bullet yet as they are likely a bit long for my 1-8" twist 22-250 Ackley to stabilize. Even if I loaded them hot at 3300fps they would be just marginally stabilized with an SG of 1.12 using Berger's twist rate stability calculator. I have shot some of the 85.5gr Berger Hybrids at just over 3200fps and they shot very well out to 300yds (range's max) even though said calculator also shows they're marginally stabilized with a 1.32 SG.
Looks like the jacket is exploding
I've had nosler AB lose the tips about 6 or 7 out of 50 i just used for fouler i order 220 swift from Hornady awhile back and the bag was missing one case so i email Hornady and they said sorry can't help but how about a hat and i told them i cant put a hat in my chamber and shoot it and about a week later one 220 swift case showed up in the mail.
Were there tips in the box?
Was there a difference in groups with those with the tip?
Just started playing with a 22arc and was thinking about using the 88s. One thing you didn't mention was, are the tips down at the bottom of the box? Or are they having a production issue and not even getting into the box with the tips?
Barnes man here🎉🎉
@@bigracer3867 I’ve never really had great luck with Barnes bullets
I’ve never had the tips just broken off in the box, I’ve been through at least 6 lots and around 1500 of the 88’s. I’ll bet Hornady will make it right.
My 22arc will break a tip off an 88 every other shot,tje tip will get crushed between the shoulder of the cases and wall of my chamber fenting my shoulder and sometimes it'll still go into battery snd firs eithout me knowing..not good..ill never buy tipped Hornady .224 and thing again..the 70cx perhaps because they shoot very well.. but failures like this eill absolutely send me off looking for a better product from a different manufacturer..
Just like that, all the Hornady haters come flocking.
Hornady customer service is TERRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes i had issues woth 180eld m 4 calls differnt people al wast of time blow ups was mu issue in 2 rifles
Sounds like a bad lot of bullets. Contact Hornady, and they will treat you right. About 4 years ago, I had some issues with bad 140gr ELD Match bullets. They would break apart in flight, and some would hit the target sideways. Sometimes they let bad bullets out. If you contact them, they will treat you right. I bought a couple thousand of these 88gr ELD match bullets over a year ago, and they have been perfect. They were sold in 250 pc baggies through Mid South. No issues at all with those ones, and they work damn well in my 1 in 8" twist 22-250.
im sure you are right, and hornady will take care of it.
This is why I will never shoot another Hornady bullet. I have had tips break off, hunting bullets not seat properly, and bullets impact the target sideways, just to name a few of the issues I have had with Hornady bullets. IMO they are cheap crap bullets that will never see the inside of my rifles again.
My friend leave hornady. Rather use berger, sierra and nosler. I am from South Africa and getting hornady bullets with out tips in the box , v- max 87gr 6mm and eldm . 🎉
They will replace them you got the lot code and they will want where you purchase them.
I think Hornady makes a great product, but I haven’t seen anything to make me like the ELD series
If bullets blew up..i gurss you wouldn't see trace...looks like you could see trace on that stray shot...
I guess...
Not always but most of the time polymer tipped bullets are not intended for competition long range. I would just say this.I do not know anybody who is winning on an elite level using Is using that name brand bullet.
100% ,rather berger. 🎉
Your camera almost shat its sd card I'm sure.
There was a issue a few years ago where the tips were melting in flight. Hornady changed the tips. Good idea to research the lot numbers .
The 88 eldm and the 80 eldx are very finicky bullets.... i have zero issues with the 80 eldm and 75 eldm. Then again i only use hornady if my gun dosnt shoot berger wich is rare
Buy Berger.
Or Sierra TMK.
100% berger, sierra tgk or nosler ab.🎉
Not sure if the video author is going for ultimate BC and target focus, or wants to have a hunting sled. Either way, target projectiles work wonderfully on game as well. People don't believe that because of marketing. Marketing has to comply with the Hague Convention for military purposes, it has nothing to do with the supposed ineffectiveness of their construction for game.
Yes
You can't buy something that is never on the shelves?
Sounds like quality control, you see this with so many products these days!!
If you call Hornady, they will take care of it.
That’s why I don’t really shoot Hornady always something
I bought 6mm 103 eldm that shot inconsistent. Bullet base to ogive vary 5 to 7 thousands.
Never had this problem with their 105 Amax or bthp
Went back to the 105 bthp's.
Hornady has gone to shit lately.......
This is a common issue with the 88eld. The 22 gt and br guys have been dealing with this for years. You most likely over spun it
And Hornady QC is crap
@@MrBoostin18 and why are the tips breaking off in the packaging before they are loaded
@@RobsReloading because Hornady QC is crap. I’d say the material they are made from was made wrong and too brittle.
Well....22 arc was designed to shoot otc ammo😅😅😅
Weird
Would rather you took the issue up with Hornady first before airing the issue. Not discounting the problem but the way you handled it. Let us know what Hornady says.
@@josephjulian2503 I aired the issue to see if this was an isolated event and to get the idea if this is common or isolated to my box