Batman (60's TV Show)--The REAL Reason Frank Gorshin was REPLACED With John Astin as the Riddler!!
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- Опубліковано 14 бер 2020
- Correction: The duo episodes would not air a week apart but one day after the other.
Batman (60's TV Show)--The REAL Reason Frank Gorshin was REPLACED With John Astin as the Riddler!!
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Frank Gorshin had the physicality, the flailing limbs, the twitches, the hyperactivity, and the best evil laugh ever.
..BETTER than the Joker’s….or any Joker so far
And he looked like he was better shape than Adam West. Good thing for Adam they didn't fight for real.
Frank Gorshin is my favorite Riddler. He redefined how the Riddler should act.
As a little kid when I watched the Batman TV show, he was the one (and False Face) who actually put me on edge.
He had that certain look on his face when he had those intense moments in his acting.
He was daffy & silly, then he'd go deadly serious in the blink of an eye.
They all played the Hell outta their character, but Frank Gorshin WAS the Riddler.
No one can replace him
Awesomely maniacal laugh!
In the comics, the Riddler was at best a second tier villain. Probably third. It was Gorshin that permanently raised his status.
The whole business about giving away the crime you are next going to commit began in the comics with The Penguin. With the Riddler it really was his thing in these riddles. Why oh why would any criminal not wanting to end up getting caught follow someone most likely to get caught? It never really made sense.
Gomez and Morticia both played villains on Batman.
Lurch did a cameo too.
You're expecting sense from the Batman TV show. Just repeat to yourself it's just a silly TV show and relax.
@@rodneymarsden3003 Wasn't there an early Scarecrow story where he straight up used riddles too? Much like how Hugo Strange was actually the first person shown using fear toxin. Lol
@@johnweber4577 Hugo Strange did use fear toxin.
Frank Gorshin's laugh was one of the coolest sounds in the history of the world.
AGREED!!!!!!
he was impersonating Richard Widmark's performance as Tommy Udo in "Kiss of Death"
@@diddymuck Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out.
Got shin owned The Riddler, to me Astin’s version sucked ! 🤷🏻♂️
I can only see Frank Gorshin portraying the Riddler in the same way I can only see Caesar Romero portraying the Joker. He was born for the part. I'm not lessoning Jack Nicholson' or John Astin as great actors which they are but I about 90 percent always prefer the Original actors or actresses portraying TV or Film Characters than ones later portraying them. Sean Connery will always be my favourite James Bond no matter who else later portrays the character.
Frank Goshin is perhaps the best at playing the part of Riddler. No other actor can capture the essence of the character like Frank Goshin
agreed. by far.
Twice. You skipped the “r” twice. F-.
Jim Carrey.
@@bwtv147 How about George Burns... Frank Goshin portrayed Burns in a forgotten 2005 film titled Angels With Angles. It was also his last film role before he passed and ditto for Rodney Dangerfield.
Met Frank Gorshin several times when we lived in Westport Ct. back in the late 70s. He was so polite and soft spoken. Real class gentleman.
Nice to hear. In addition to being a great impressionist, he had a terrific natural speaking voice. It was fun hearing him speak during the Star Trek episode he was in, "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield."
I met him when he was touring in On the 20th Century back in the early '80s. I worked as an usher at the theater and he was great! Chain smoker though.
I met him at Chiller Con once. I paid him too much money for an autograph, didn't realize I handed him an extra 20. I had already started walking away and was pretty far from him but he shouted to me to come back and he gave me my 20. Honest good guy. I was sad when I heard of his passing.
Frank was the comedian on the Ed Sullivan show right before the Beatles performed
Gorshin owned the part. His portrayal still has echoes in every non-comics version. Every time I see the Astin episodes, I think Gomez.
Exactly. Gershin made the Riddler. Its like, "oh Gomez Adams has a summer job."
Astin was so good on the Adam's Family.
Gorshin was the one that could have been done seriously. He had some weight to it where he could be chilling. You could really see his version killing someone.
he sure looked better in the costume.
@@robertcarson141 The villains were all supposed to be a bit comical, cartoonish. Gershin brought a more sociopath edge to the character. He was good.
@@kevinmoore4887 that is what I mean. They all were comical but if it was done seriously his portrayal still worked. I loved how he would laugh and then just go dead serious.
No one likes to admit it, but in Hollywood, it's ALWAYS about the money.
yea, these actors, producers, directors, writers, and crews should not worry about their families and own futures, they should just entertain us no matter what
"This was due to Frank Gorshin asking for a pay rise for the second season."
I really think that the truth is somewhere in the middle of both stories. John Astin did a great job with the character. Probably nobody else at the time could have pulled off the character in Frank Gorshin's place. They both played the character very over the top but each one had their own take on it.
@@babayaga1767 lol 😆 most people missed your sarcasm but well put
Are you saying show business is a business?
There is yet to be a live-action Riddler that can nearly match Gorshin’s creation. Even the incredible Jim Carrey fell way short.
Maybe the answer is a combination of the two stories: Gorshin had a nightclub deal that was paying him 5k, and to cancel it he wanted the Batman producers to match that amount.
Sounds reasonable to me. Kind of a "Work around my other gig or pay me the same as it."
That is the most plausible
I think that you might be right. The average villain was getting 1k per episode, I would have thought about paying it if he could prove the night club contract, he was irreplaceable i.m.o.! Batman was a smash hit in the first season, they should have had some money to play with! I believe that Adam west was getting about $ 5k per episode!
@@mikeseppy7163 West was the lead though so would understandably get a lot more. I expect that if they had paid Gorshin the same then the other actors like Cesar Romero and Burgess Meredith would also have been looking for a payrise.
5K is a lot in 60's dollars for a "nightclub" gig.
Yes, Frank Gorshin had a contract to perform at the Tropicana Night Club!! John Astin did a good job but to me Frank Gorshin was, is & always will be the Riddler! Stay healthy & be hopeful 🙂
Was it the same Tropicana that Ricky Ricardo worked at?
@@jamesvickers9476 of course!!! (LoL)
Had to be more than that. Stars were lining up to be villains. Why didn’t they just film with another villain if all was well with gorshin
@@edd2771 The Puzzler episode was originally supposed to be the Riddler, but re-written because they were unable to cast Gorshin. I didn't enjoy that 2-parter anywhere near as much as any of the Riddler's. Maybe Dozier didn't either so decided that a re-cast Riddler would work better? Sometimes you don't know until you try.
Everybody in my family screamed "look, it's Gomez Addams in the Riddler costume"!
“Hey it’s Frank Gorshin’s birthday. He was The Riddler, you know.” - Hank Hill
I met Frank Gorshin several years before his death. While I never asked about the situation concerning his Riddler and Astin's Riddler, and the reasons why, I will say he was a very interesting fellow. As far as Astin is concerned, he wasn't Gorshin and wasn't trying to be. He did the Riddler with his own take on it, and I still enjoyed those episodes.
I had heard the salary demand story before, so it was probably valid. I also remember Frank Gorshin appearing on Star Trek for one episode at around the same time which caused confusion for my then 7 year old mind. No one can top Gorshin as the Riddler, especially not Jim Carey.
It was the salary demand from that agency (William Morris)
Same thing almost happened with Leonard Nimoy in the leadin to S2 of Star Trek.
NBC agreed to keep it on after S1 but they said NO INCREASE IN BUDGET...NO RAISES...AT ALL.
Nimoy's agent demanded a raise or he'd walk. Justman and Coon said no...and they started screen testing Mark Lenard and the actor that later played Staan as Spock replacements to scare Nimoy into backing down.
The agency then contacted NBC directly and finked that Norway Corp (ST staff) were trying to replace Spock.
NBC said to Roddenberry's team...are you crazy...without Spock you have nothing.
Nimoy got a raise...then everyone got a raise...then Shatner insisted on a raise....and that's why there is almost no new space VFX in S2. Budget was fixed.
@@STho205 Very interesting story, thanks for sharing.
agreed. no one was even close to frank gorshin as the riddler.
@@mattyrock2467 How about George Burns? Frank Goshin would portray George Burns in a 2005 film titled Angels With Angles and ironically the film has never gotten a DVD release. Gorshin died the same year the film was released. ❓🤔🧐📽
“There are 3 sides to every story: Your side, my side and the truth...” Frank Gorshin was the one and only Riddler. Period. I didn’t realize it was only 2 episodes for John Astin. Thanks Rick!
Doug Onodera exactly, and it’s great to hear all the nuances and sides to every story
@Enzo 1965 I vaguely remember it.
The contention that any actor owns the role or "is" the role is jarringly idiotic on it's face. People who write things like this clearly have significant problems dealing with everyday reality because everything becomes magical contests to them. Pitiful!
@@m.j.c.6969 there IS one and only Mona Lisa and only Da Vinci could have painted it as the Mona Lisa was painted . The artist is endowed to their work of art and acting is an artform
@@AK-Drakoin They're "endowed" to their work? What does that mean?
John Astin radiates kindness, he always did. He can portray "kooky" like no-one else, but he just can't pull off any degree of meanness. Frank Gorshin portrays a villain much more easily. He did it in a comical way, so as not to give little kids nightmares. He was more naughty than nasty. Astin was great in "Evil Roy Slade."
Evil Roy Slade - one of the greatest and most under-rated (and generally unknown) comedies ever.
I laughed at Evil Roy like I NEVER had at another movie as a kid. Or since. Well,where's Papa was funny too...
@@every1665 I thought his "Ani-mules" was the funniest thing I ever heard at 10.
Gorshin always played it like The Riddler was on amphetamines. All that manic, nervous energy. Great. John is great in everything else, but Gorshin nailed this role.
Gorshin is THE Riddler. It's funny, Frank Gorshin was in a Disney movie called That Darn Cat back in the 60's. It's one of my favorites. I can't watch him in it though without imagining him as the Riddler. Thanks for this, Rick!
I'm a John Astin fan. I love him as Judge Harry's Dad in "Night Court": "But I'm MUCH BETTER now..."
Now that was a part he was damn fine in.
...me too!
~RIP Harry Anderson~
EVIL ROY SLADE
Massive fan of his work in Adams Family, but Frank was always Riddler
Is that the one where he breaks down and starts quoting the 3 stooges? Amazing how those moments can stick with you..
1:55 - the stories were over two CONSECUTIVE nights, not a week apart. That is why we were asked to "Tune in tomorrow night, same Bat-time, same Bat-channel. "
Thank you for this information. I had always heard it was due to creative difficulties and Goshin's nightclub act.
@Laceykat66 You got to the correction that I was going to make. This is why I have gotten into the habit of scroll through the comments before leaving my comment.
Rick probably wasn't aware the _'Batman'_ deliberately broke from tradition of having the second part a week later.
It was the first and to my knowledge the only non-news, non-soap opera show in the 1960s to air more than once in a week.
@@pauld6967 I think you are right though does airing more than twice a week MAKE it a soap opera? I am thinking of Peyton Place. 😁
@@Laceykat66 No, no you misunderstand.
I was saying that in the 1960s the only shows that aired more than once a week on television were the network news shows and soap operas and maybe game shows. I remember _'Truth of Consequences'_ being once a week but there may have been daily games shows as there are today.
Frank Gorshin will ALWAYS be the one and ONLY Riddler on the Batman live action TV series, I saw the two part episode with John Astin as the Riddler, but it just wasn't the same not seeing Frank wearing the Riddler costume though, looked odd seeing John wearing the Riddler costume
One of my stupid asshole teachers claimed never to have heard of Astin, whilst discussing "Batman" with me. Was going to call him that to his face, but begged off..
@Simon Leib -- while I do agree with you about Ms. Newmar, Eartha Kitt was no slouch.
Howlin' Hobbit Yes indeed!,.....I was like, wait-a-minute!....yea, definitely Ms. Newmar deservess her iconic status for being catwoman,........ohhhh, but Ms. Kitt without a DOUBT! most DEFINITELY brought a unique exotic deminsion to the character of catwoman!
Which is why actors do not want to be typecast as well. Your impression of John Astin reminded you of Gomez in the costume...that is a good point. Astin was trying to avoid that all his career, and trying to shake off the "Gomez" label. He wasn't against Gomez as such, it did his career the world of good, but it is when actors want to diversify later, the public often cannot release their thought process from the characters they are familiar with. Fred Gwynne as Herman Munster was a similar situation. He could not shake off the Munsters character with the public in the future. Sorted it out eventually, but he was never appreciated for the diverse characters he could play.
Gorshin's impersonation of Burt Lancaster on the Dean Martin Celebrity Roast kills. He about had Martin and Don Rickle's falling out of their seats from laughing so hard. Brilliant entertainer.
Frank Gorshin's Riddler was an impression of Richard Widmark as gangster Tommy Udo in 1947's Kiss of Death, a character known for his high-pitched laugh. Gorshin, known for his impression of dramatic actors, did Widmark's Tommy Udo in his nightclub act.
he was one of the best impressionists ever. Far better than Little.
I had the honor of meeting Frank Gorshin. We were able to have a one on one conversation. He was a true gentleman...polite, respectable and sincere.
Incredible experience
Frank Gorshin said people use to come up to him and say "I loved the way you played "The Joker" on Batman. He had to correct them all the time.
Loved those crossword t-shirts (Across & Down)---character names, I'm guessing!
I wasn't a regular viewer of Batman, so I often confused The Riddler with The Joker. I would have to watch an episode for a few minutes before I could figure out which of the two was the villain that week.
Frank Gorshin is the only true Riddler in the 60's Batman tv series. The laugh, the quick sporadic movements.... Everything.
I always thought Gorshin’s portrayal of Riddler was what Cesar Romero’s Joker should have been.
I agree Gorshins probably the only one who could have equaled or topped Romero. There's a short clip from the movie of both Riddler and Joker laughing if only they had had the foresight to make it longer with some Penguin quacks too
Hi Willie, have you seen the joker movie with Phoenix? I'm afraid to watch 😬
romero was perfect, imo
@@brucesmith3740, Romero was about as frightening as Ronald McDonald.
@@robjones8733, I saw it and liked it. However, like with Heath Ledger, Phoenix’s character isn’t the TRUE Joker.
*ON A SIDE NOTE:* John Astin turns 90 in 14 days...🎂
Darn! He is still alive. Wish I had a train set to blow up in his honor🚂
I'm glad he's still kicking.
An actor has the magic of being anyone they play. But John Astin was fresh out of his Gomez Addams role to be the Riddler, so basically he was Gomez in the wrong show. Like if Frank Gorshln was playing Gomez.Addams. in all an awkward Batman episode.
John is the last remaining Male arch villain still alive as of April 2020.4 women are left Julie Newmar, glynnis John's, Joan Collins and Barbara Rush. John would have been a good Riddlet but people were used th Frank's version so didn't readily accept the change. When I first saw Gorshin as the Riddler my 1st thought was that any kid that acted like that would have been locked in psycho ward
Astin was fresh off of The Addams Family and fresh out of work...Worked out to ABC's advantage...but Gomez was still fresh in America's mind ,so to the average 8 year old, like myself, (an evil)Gomez was back...and after Gorshin came back, Astin jumped into the Phyllis Diller Show, also an ABC show, and played a shifty version of Gomez, but even that couldn't save that show...and don't forget...two years prior to Gomez, a mustache -less Astin starred in "I'm Dickens...He's Fenster"...also on ABC...So Astin was on ABC's payroll for a decade. You know Rick, Astin is still around and lives in New Jersey... Why don't you arrange an interview ? Us fans would love it , I'm sure!!!
I loved "I'm Dickens, He's Fenster" KAFF KAFF -- gettin' old.
@@loginregional Starring Patty Duke's future husband and Shirley Partridge's future husband (as well as the actress who played Dr Bellows' wife on I Dream of Jeannie).
Here! Here!
Astin also appeared on another A.B.C. program in the seventies entitled "Operation Petticoat".
zoperxplex Oh yea, I forgottaboutthat!
Astin has a unique way about himself but he's no Frank Gorshin.
It's simply because he played
it first. If Astin, or any other actor played it first, then the next actor seems dissimilar and wrong. Gorshin wasn't magical either.
John Astin did a decent job in the two episodes. That being said, there really can be only one Riddler - Frank Gorshin.
yep. no one else comes close.
Frank Gorshin was defining as the ‘Riddler’. Astin did a decent job, tho.
I believe it might of been a little bit of Both: I think the nightclub deal was legit but he could of had a way out but knew he would probably be taking a risk with it so he basically wanted them to give him some compensation because either he’s going to lose a big pay day or he wanted this risk to have some guarantee brightside
They also came up with “The Puzzler” played by Maurice Evans who is very very similar to The Riddler to fill in for Gorshin’s absence.
Truth be told though. Maurice was just good at everything. I love his acting mostly because you can tell he comes from a Shakespearean background. I could listen to him talk forever.
mikeface1 The Shakespeare-Spouting Riddler Rip-off was Superman’s adversary in the 1950’s. He was not created for the series.
Dr. Zaius. End of story
From my understanding, The Puzzler is a former rogue of Superman from the comic books. I mean really? They couldn't even use Arthur Brown or the Cluemaster, a criminal mastermind enemy of Batman for that show since he made his First Appearance in Detective Comics #351 (May 1966)
The Puzzler is a real character. Not a fill in.
frank gorshin will always be my favourite riddler of all time
Ahhh...Frank Gorshin.
When I mention his name to anyone, I get a blank stare.
I adored his talents to perform perfect and hilarious impersonations on the Ed Sullivan show. He impersonated the legends to a T.
He was handsome, too!
He was the one and only Riddler.
I remember seeing that Ed Sullivan show too. Frank was amazingly great! So well done, way better than Rich Little..
@@garyfisher2015 Hahaha, forgot about Rich Little. Funny impressions of Richard "Tricky Dick" Nixon!
They should have teamed him with Marsha, Queen of Diamonds.
Gomez and Morticia together again!
Ohh, Rick! You made one slight error in your narration and that was saying that the second part of the episodes would be shown the following WEEK! These shows were made to be played over two days - Wednesday and Thursday I believe! This is why the narrator would say to "Tune in tomorrow, same bat channel, etc.!" I never got to see them on air originally that way, but this was explained later! Your track record is still unmatched in great facts, though and thanks for another great video!!
I was about to make a similar comment. The pairs of episodes would air in the same week. I believe it was Tuesdays and Thursdays, though. While I'm old enough to remember the show as it originally aired, I'm also old enough to forget some of the details.
Thanks for spotting that error. You are correct. I will update that in the description below
It was originally aired on Wednesday and Thursday. Never missed an episode.
Others have already pointed out that the show was aired two consecutive nights, Wednesday and Thursday. I only am commenting to clarify--positively---that the show aired Weds&Thurs., not Tues-Wed, or any other combination of 2 days. I was first year college when the show first aired, so I remember that very distinctly.
I recollect Tuesday night and Thursday night being the schedule for this show. Some stories would have the first part on Thursday and the conclusion on the following Tuesday.
"Tune in next week. Same Bat time, same Bat channel!"
I only watched the first season regularly.
Anyone can disagree with my recollection. No problem.
As a kid when I saw the advertisement for the following week and they showed john Astin as the Riddler I was devastated , Frank gorshin was the Riddler , he was one of the reasons I watch the show those characters were great
Frank Gorshin, but John Astin held his own. I seem to favorite Gorshin's story.
John Astin is good at pretty much whatever he does. I loved his turn in Brisco County Junior, the part was probably written for him.
Totally agree! I found those to be lousy episodes but that’s just me
With respect to John Astin, a fine actor! But when you mention the Riddler, Frank Gorshin was a natural and will always be the true Riddler!
I think there's no coincidence that in the movie Batman with john Carey as Riddler, he played that part with the same manic energy as Gorshin did in the TV show.
Frank Gorshin was the Riddler & he made the unequaled standard for the role, no doubt about it.
Frank Gorshin was the man when it came to the Riddler. I still remember that first episode with him. The Derby the cross the gun that was a lighter.
I don’t know the reason, but Frank Gorshin was much better.
Manic. Energy. 😁😁😁
I agree wholeheartedly. And I saw him on The Tonight Show a couple of times. He was a great impressionist. Like his Kirk Douglas impersonation was spot on.
Raymond Gerlach
I did, too! He was great!
I remember an interview with Astin...he stated he was brought in last minute because gorshin had other commitments....and he was only filling in...
He’s a class act.
They should had dressed John Astin in the tailored Riddler suit and derby to make it work, because I
think that he looks understandably uncomfortable and embarrassed running around in those tights.
A classy guy like Gomez Addams would never dress like that.
I believe the producer... it always ends up being about money and this wasn't the only time such a situation took place in Hollywood.
The REAL reason isn't surprising or interesting, just business.
Well, there's actually a second (or first, chronologically) replacement - The Puzzler, played by Maurice Evans (Who by this time was reoccurring on "Bewitched" and this was about a year before "Planet of the Apes) Was a Riddler Script rewritten while the Gorshin-Dozier situation was being played out.
yea though Puzzler ended up being more like a Bookworm-Riddler hybrid with how they made him obsessed with Shakespearean literature. they even use the bookworm music theme in the puzzler episodes.
Thank you Rick for all your post ♥️
I remember both very well and although John did a really good job I think Frank was the one who defined the role. His insane giggling to serious demeanor was priceless. Another thing was how nimble Gorshin was at times as he seemed to be able to wildly move and jump around effortlessly.
Somehow I missed the episodes with John Astin as the Riddler. I just remember Frank Gorshin as the Riddler. I like him best as the Riddler. No offense to John Astin.
I was about 8 years old watching the actual episodes back in the 60s, and i can still remember watching the 2 episodes with Astin as the Riddler. I remenber because i was extremely confused and angry that they replaced my favorite villain"s actor with Gomez Adams. My mom even asked why i was yelling at the TV! Lol
Same as you! I don't remember seeing the episodes with Astin!
you're not alone. i remembered seeing it only after watching this video. Cake of quicksand was ridiculous, even for Batman. Shame the writers just couldn't have invented a new villain instead of re-fitting the costume. Could've been a breakout role for Astin if they had.
Thanks for the information. I always wondered what happened I agree 100% with your perspectives.
I used to watch Batman since the 60s and recall the two episode arc came on two nights a week. This is why the narrator said "tune in tomorrow night, same bat time, same bat channel."
Rick,
I agree with your assessment of Frank Gorshin. Not only was he (by far) the better Riddler, but even as a kid, he was my favorite villain. He really played up the crazy maniacal nature of his character.
And, prior to Batman, Gorshin was known as one of the premiere impersonators in show business.
In fact, he's featured as a guest star on an episode of "The Defenders" (c. 1961) in which he demonstrates his brilliant range as an impersonator.
As for Astin, great Gomez Addams (et al), but his performance as the Riddler is dwarfed in comparison by the inimitable Frank Gorshin.
Best,
Paul
During that time frame, Gorshin was primarily a stand-up impressionist. Those were at their peak then. Such performers as Rich Little, Frank, Rob Schneider, and others were in high demand. The premise of the Batman series was guest spots for high paid performers to add to the kitch of the pop culture. Many of us tuned in to see which artist would make a surprise appearance that week. Batman gave Gorshin the opportunity to show his acting chops and branch out into other roles. Given that he had just appeared in Star Trek, his demands for more money were entirely justified. Batman was making money hand over fist because of the style, and Gorshin was a prized player. Astin was not the only "replacement" actor in the series, as you know. Julie Neumar was forever Catwoman in the same fashion. Lee Merriweather was an adequate replacement, but the character was never the same. Even Eartha Kitt as Catwoman was a success, so the producers thought they could simply replace Gorshin as they had Neumar. To their surprise, it went over like a lead balloon. Gorshin forever cemented his place in that show after that, giving Romero and Meredith their bargaining chips.
Dodi Tov Rob Schneider didn’t do anything til the 1990s Dunno where you think he fits in to this situation
@@kimedmond5377 i think he meant Bob Newhart haha
@@kimedmond5377 Probably thinking of John Byner.
Frank Gorshin was the best villain...period, on 60's Batman.
I'll always love John Astin as Gomez Adams, but Frank Gorshin is Iconic as the Riddler!
I like best your end message! It's really great to hear your positive attitude, and I hope you take time out for self-care every day!
Frank Gorshin will always (in my mind) be the perfect Riddler. He gave the character a frenetic, over the top, slightly comedic and quite possibly insane nature that helped hold the viewers attention and probably helped with the shows popularity.
That laugh!
No one's come close to Frank Gorshin's portrayal of the Riddler...
Cesar Romero was able to use his deeper bass-baritone voice more as the Joker, because Gorshin was the falsetto/high tenor as the Riddler. I suppose Burgess Meredith was somewhere in the middle of those two voice-wise, and Catwoman was the alto. So they had all the vocal ranges covered really, except soprano, but I suppose Gorshin's falsetto kinda covers that as well... 😁😁😁
@@sandrasanders706
Agreed! Almost seems like the
character was made for him.
Frank’s portrayal was one of the reasons you watched that show.
Love your positive words at the end. Your passion speaks volumes!
All I can say is I agree with you, Gorshin was incredible in this and that laugh!
Actually, I am pretty sure Batman aired twice a week which is why the announcer would say, "Tune in Tomorrow. Same Bat Time, same Bat Channel." So kids didn't have to wait until next week for the continuation.
I always wondered why the switch. Thanks for explaining.
Three Mr Freezes, Three Catwomen two Riddlers.
@@johnbockelie3899 i know, but Riddler was always my favorite. (I had a crush on him 😜)
When John showed up in place of Frank, it was a shock that I just couldn't deal with. My interest in the show waned...especially when they also replaced Julie.
@@lo9893 Yeah, but I was young, impatient and needed continuity. I got used to Frank. I was in love with Julie.
In many, many interviews with film and television actors, many will state that, "my agent negotiated a better pay rate than I expected from that part." Which means that Mr. Gorshin might not have known about the agent's request for a pay raise. I remember those times, and especially Mr. Gorshin, as he was a Pittsburgh native. Being from that area, we always looked for "local" talent when watching television or movies.
Frank Gorshin as the Riddler was the best Batman villain ever. I loved him SO much, to this day The Riddler is my favorite Batman character only because of him.
John Astin also starred as the captain of the tv series based on the movie Operation Petticoat called " in the Pink " . he gave a great interpretation of the Carey Grant role . A young Jamie Lee Curtis portrayed one of the rescued nurses . Thanks for posting this story . I never knew about him filling in as the Riddler .
Gorshin was the best, the subtle changes in voice when speaking, up and down tones really made the character crazy as he was supposed to be. I think it was money, but there's nothing wrong with getting that. I have a question. Who did they audition for Catwoman after Julie Newmar couldn't do it. Was Eartha Kitt always the first choice or were others. Same goes for Batgirl. Do you have any info on that. Great channel, Keep it up. Cheers, Steve
Gorshin was such an amazing actor and crazy as they come! Always loved his work. Great Vid, Rick!
Mr. Gorshin was from Pittsburgh Pa. I'm old enough to know someone who dated him. She said he was a very nice man.
I remember when "Gomez Addams" showed up as The Riddler and it totally blew up my 7-year-old world view! All I could think there was a horrible mistake or Frank Gorshin was killed or gravely ill. I like John Astin (BTW, he's still with us at 90-plus years old, and teaching acting classes at his alma mater) and love his Gomez but he was out of his lane with Riddler. He didn't even get rid of the moustache for the role! Gorshin was THE Riddler as Astin was Gomez Addams. It would be like if Burgess Meredith was replaced by George Burns to play Penguin.
As to what happened with Frank Gorshin and the show, I think it was a classic game of chicken: Gorshin wanted more money (justifiable in my view), the production company balked at the demand so they tried the role with someone else. Both parties lose in a big way and realize it, they agree to talk, and eventually hash out a compromise deal. A latter-day version of this happened with "The Dukes Of Hazzard" when the two leading actors held out for more salary when the show was at its peak. That show's producers tried to go on without the two actors, hired look-alike replacements, and claimed the true star of the show is the car, The General Lee. It went one for a few episodes like this, the plots were now perceived as too contrived by viewers, the two parties went back to the table and hashed out a deal - and then wrote a hackneyed storyline bringing the two original stars back and sending the replacements on their way.
I don’t know the reason, but Frank Gorshin to this day is my favorite Riddler. I think he set a level that Astin (even with enough preparation) could not perform at.
1:48 - Note that the two-part Batman episodes were not aired a week apart. Batman was on twice a week for its first two seasons.
I didn't know John Astin did that. What's really amazing is that he's still alive.
Rick, I’ve seen a few of your videos, and what I love is what a real researcher would do. Give the facts in a positive light and let the people decide on their own. If only the news and politics did the same. I wish more people presented anything in this way like you do
Thank you! I research all this stuff in hopes you all enjoy the vids 😀
Astin is a great comedian... he was awesome... and of course, we were already into our original Joker mode... it gives you a lot of questions when you are young... Astin did a fine job.
The second show of each plot didn't play the week after. "Batman" was an oddity in that the show was on twice a week. That's why the cliffhanger episode would say, "Tune in tomorrow night; same bat time, same bat channel!"
Irreplaceable is right! He's THE Riddler. Gorshin was an amazing talent. His impression routines were also 2nd to none. Guys have come along over the years who are really good with the voices but no one will ever match Gorshins presentation and the humor he mixed in with the routines. I would be impressed if someone could be half as good as Frank as the Riddler.
One small correction. For the first two years, the Batman episodes were in two parts. They first part wasn't continued the next week, it was continued the next day (the episodes were two per week for the first two years.)
Its true. Batman had two new episodes on Wednesdays and Thursdays. I was a kid in the 60s. I was pissed off because I missed Batman on Wednesday because I was watching Lost In Space.
Batman had better ratings than Lost in Space did
Yes, I updated the description of the video to reflect the error. Thank you!
Wow. I thought I'd seen every episode, but damned if I can remember Gomez playing The Riddler. Bonkers! I need to hunt down and watch these 1 episodes now. Nice job, Rick! Love your work here!
Glad you enjoyed it, Dave! Very cool right?
@@ricknineg Indeed!
I want to make a correction. "Batman" did use cliffhangers, but they were not separated by a week. Instead, the first part aired (on ABC) on Wednesday, then the other part aired the next day on Thursday. I was a kid in the 60s; I watched that show EVERY WEEK!
Hey, thanks for posting. I'm with ya on Gorshin's domination of the role- my personal favorite villain. Whadda trip he was. I dont know what to make of the brief substitution, but was glad for the reprisal. (that said, I also enjoyed the Gomez cameo ).
Okay since you're talkin about The Addams Family, Carolyn Jones who played Morticia, was also on the Batman series as the villainess Marsha Queen of Diamonds. Lurch also made an appearance via the window scene. So there is a total of three actors that did crossovers from Addams Family to Batman
"Across" was played by Jim Lefebvre, whose regular job was playing second base for the Los Angeles Dodgers from 1965-1972.
cool
I forget who it was but the other henchman was also a Dodger too. Also they played natives in an episode of Gilligans Island. PS do you remember Gilligan on Batman? It was a gag because it was Alsn Hale playing a character named Gilligan
Another henchman was Roland La Starza, the boxer who lost a split decision to Rocky Marciano
@@dwlopez57 Al Ferrara was in a few episodes of Batman, and was with Lefebvre in the Gilligan's Island episode "High Man on the Totem Pole."
Frank Gorshin was the best by far.
If you want a harmless fop of a character (like all of those versions of Batman characters) sure... but I want a Riddler that'll actually KILL somebody and the best for that is Cory Michael Taylor on Gotham
@@spencerwelchii573
Yeah, that's not what I watch Batman for.
Grownups in silly costumes delivering
corny lines is what it's all about, and in
keeping with the true nature of comics.
You want drama, suspense, gratuitous
imagery of violence? Invite your in-laws
over for the weekend. Leave comics with
some dignity of authenticity at least.
FYI, as of this moment, John Astin still breathes at the ripe old age of 92.
Frank is always the riddler. I too like his mannerisms, laughter, just energy is amazing. Jon's interpretation was his own and pretty good like if Batman and Robin come he would had already set the trap for both of them when got there. He had what would the iconic question mark cane only for jon's performance and wouldn't seen again until Batman The Animated Series, The New Batman Animated Series, and Batman Forever.
His new agents were bad at dealing. They probably expected to settle for considerably less than that, but they started way too high. Any time you're trying to make a deal with somebody, if you start out too unrealistically greedy, you run the risk of insulting the other party to the point where they'll get up and leave the table just to spite you.
I met Frank Gorshon at a SupermegaFest Show in My Hometown and he told me that he was on Vacation John Astin did a great job filling in for Frank and even if he doesn't look like him.
Frank Gorshin told TV Guide that he was only able to do "the laugh" on days over 80○F.
Gorshin was a notorious Playboy at the time and had high expenses and therefore I believe he demanded more money
Interesting Rick. Thank you.
I was lucky enough to meet Frank Gorshin and get his autograph at a comic book convention a year or so before he passed away. Gorshin was a pleasure to talk to; I told him how much I enjoy watching his performances as The Riddler, which he appteciated. Nothing personally against John Aston, but to me there will always be only one Riddler! Another thing worth noting is that the producers of "Batman" were originally going to do another two part Riddler episode without Frank Gorshin but instead the writers created a new villain similar to The Riddler and named him The Puzzler.
I was hooked on Batman when I was a kid, and the standout is Frank... I didn't even remember Aston being on Batman until memory jog. I also think the Jim Carey performance in whatever batman movie he was in owed more to Gorshin. Funny how they've never had the Riddler in other movies, as I think he's my favorite villain after Joker and Catwoman.
I remember hearing something about money being a reason why Astin replaced Gorshin for the second season. I’m sure there may be some truth to Gorshin being tied up with other commitments, but the money situation could have been a big reason why he wasn’t able to play the Riddler until the following season. It’s quite likely they made a deal that would make everyone involved happy monetary wise for Gorshin to return. Astin did a fine job for what he had to do in the episodes as the Riddler, but Gorshin will always be the Riddler to me.
He needed more money for cigarettes. He had a few parts in the movie 12 monkeys and every scene he is smoking. The man could finish a cigarette with one draw according to Adam West. The guy was brilliant. He was also on Star trek on the episode he was painted half black half white and he did stand up, impersonatiins.Amazing talent.
Definitely seems that Dozier did Astin a huge disservice, using him as a way to get Gorshin to chop down his asking price. The Addams Family was recently cancelled & Astin probably took this job without being fully aware of Gorshin’s impact, because he truly WAS The Riddler. But it helps me appreciate Astin more...he didn’t make the mistake of trying to be as crazy as Gorshin was in the part...he simply played it in his own style. Dozier should’ve created a totally different villain for John. That idea would’ve surely been so much more successful & memorable than putting him in the Riddler suit.
They shouldve made John Astin the Puzzler, give him an outfit similar to Riddler's, or something. Or make him the Toyman, or the Trickster. That would have been something.
Loving Astin as much as I did, he was no Riddler. Maybe had he originated the role he would've been acceptable, but Gorshin was already indelibly ingrained as The Riddler. Please refer to 02:02 and look at Franks's face. I think that there was potential menace there that would've also made Gorshin a good Joker.
I totally agree! They created a slew of new villains just to fit the guest stars they had. They even created ones for Liberace & Ethel Merman! To think of Astin in his pinstriped suit as Gomez, he would've been phenomenal as a Capone or Dillinger-type of mob boss.
@@Bentom86 ethel merman? Say what?
The one & the same...played the Penguin's sidekick, Lola Lasagne.
Met Frank 5 times in the 70s and several times later in the 2000s. ..When I first met him in 76 I asked about being replaced, he said he had a Vegas Commitment and the producers didn't want to delay production of this episode...He had no ill feelings about it..He asked me whom I thought was a better Riddler, him or John ? No contest I told him, but John was the definitive Gomez Addams ! Frank was a great guy...just that damn smoking !
I didn't realize how interested I was in the Batman show, until I started watching this.
Well done !
That definitely means a lot to me! Thank you so much for the support
John Astin as the Riddler is comical.............
Astin has the "scary eyes" though... 😈😁😁😁
JIM CAREY showed it some justice though, but even he’s not Frank Gorshin.
No, he did not . That over the top bullshit was horrific. Laughably bad.
@@richarddecredico6098 I agree. Jim Carrey was awful.
I was really hoping that the Riddler would have been played by Robin Williams. That would have been amazing.
Frank gorshin was the best Riddler ever! He was made for the role, he was all in.
The way I remember it, each story line was broadcast in 2 parts, on 2 consecutive nights.