This is the second time that I've watched this video. The first time, I didn't really understand the importance of learning pigments. But for now, I am focusing on watercolor basics more than actually painting a picture. I live in Florida, so I don't want to tell people to avoid hanging my art in a sunny room. Best to just avoid fugitive colors all together. Thank you for all your hard work 💜
For the fun of it, I did my own lightfast test on DS Moonglow, (rated lightfast 1), and DS Mayan Blue (rated 2). I put the swatches in a southwest facing window from February to August. I was very surprised to see the color shift in the Moonglow. It went from purple to blue, so the PR177 definitely faded. The Mayan Blue faded also, becoming more greenish, but that was to be expected. Needless to say, I have no trust in DS's labeling and will certainly do more research before buying any more paint. Thank you for bringing attention to lightfastness with your research and videos!
As always, thank you so much for your work and resources, Kimberly. I *doubt* they'll reply to this, but I am curious how they'd refute these results (hilarious that their Aureolin is rated LFII - guess I never looked).
Why should they try to refute the results? DS and other manufacturers use different methods and test to different standards, so it would be like comparing apples to moon dust. This video is tested in accordance with ASTM D5398, “Standard Practice for Visual Evaluation of the Lightfastness of Art Materials by the User”. Manufacturers test to more rigid and controlled standards of ASTM D4303, “Standard Test Methods for Lightfastness of Colorants Used in Artists’ Materials”.
Carmine, Shadow Violet and Sicklerite have shown issues in a past full 1 year test, but are not notable at the 6 month mark. *There are more than a few colors I don’t have 1yr results for yet, but expect increased fading in between 6-12 mo.* Any color with PY83 in the mix, such as Aussie Red Gold will likely tip into LFIII fading levels as time goes on. Keep in mind this is the halfway mark in this test only exposing the most fragile colors. I expect another 5+ colors will be added to the list later on. You may want to avoid these colors if marginal lightfastness is not appropriate for your work (for sale/long term wall display/brightly lit business offices etc.). If for some reason I get too busy to update in video format at the 1 year mark, I'll post photo results on the brand page within the "art supply reviews and lightfast testing" section of www.kimcrick.com/
Did you notice something with the Sleeping beauty turquoise? I bought a tube recently, so I'm concerned. Few years ago it faded to a pale brown olive on Jane Blundell's window. (See her blog)
@@__A_S__ this is my second test including SBturq and I haven’t seen issues. However DS has had problem batches of colors before. I have a sodalite that turns black, another artist mentioned Mayan blue also discolored away from light in her dry pan. Sadly it would not surprise me if some batches are just bad.
@@KimberlyCrick Thank you so much for your tests! So, this is like with White Nights, depending on a batch. You never know... Will get my fingers crossed, for mine isn't spoiled. Thank you.
I wonder if 1) Our harsh Aussie sun would make more difference, 2) if using a piece of museum glass or truview glass over tests by framing a small section, with air gap, or just placing glass over it may reduce these results. 3) using a few fixative tests may help increase light fastness? 4)Jane Blundell has done her own lightfastness tests, and only came up with a few colours that changed, from the mass tone. I talk to her regularly, and so can give this site to her. She will be interested to know this.
I would love to see a video of just all the most fugitive paint colours just listed so that I can easily just reference it and avoid buying or using them
You can screen shot or just jot down the list provided... I'm betting there will be additions to the "fugitive pigments" page on her website as well as the Daniel Smith brand page, she's been updating it regularly.
She has a very detailed blog entry with amazing lists of all the problematic pigments with photos and information! You should check out Kimberly's site!
If only John Cogley could stop repeating the same "answer" and really take a look about what the users (us, painters) want to know about the actual lightfastness of the paints....
Your channel is such an amazing resource. Not only are you helping us make smart financial decisions, but you make all the information easily accessible by collating it in one place. Definitely would be curious to see any other lightfastness tests you'd perform.
TY! Not surprised in the slightest. Yet more undisclosed pigments too. UGH. This list is very helpful though and I greatly appreciate all of your hard work and investment.
I too have a large selection of Daniel Smith paints and think I will do a lightfast test of my own. It will be fun to see these colors swatched a bit larger and see how they work out for me. I seriously am not surprised by this many colors fading. I don’t think that list is terrible considering the large number of paints Daniel Smith makes. I would love to see more lightfast tests - among other professional grade paints also. I love Daniel Smith and if I’m painting something seriously important I will avoid the fading pigments. I will love and enjoy their unique beauty in my sketchbooks. Thanks Kimberly!
Definitely happy that it's a pretty small portion of the colors that have fading issues. If we could just get some proper labeling on a few of the most fugitive ones so we know what isn't ideal for sale, I think a lot of us would still love to use them in sketchbooks.
@@KimberlyCrick I heard via Steve Mitchell ,that NO H2O PAINTING SHOULD EVER BE PUT IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT...everything eventually will fade...especially more watered-down washes...especially any of the cobalts and reds...and of course opera with the uv thing.Cadmiums...I have heard, like the yellows, reds and oranges, fade much less...when exposed to sunlight
@@kookatsoonjan There are over a hundred pigments that can withstand repeat daily sunlight for many years. No watercolor should be stored in direct sunlight, unfortunately only *some* artists know this. Many people who buy art may hang it in their livingrooms across from a large sliding glass door for display. Each day around sunset or sunrise beams of light shine through onto the art, which is why it's important for those who sell work to understand which pigments are the most durable. It would be best to skip the ones we know can fade in just months, versus many years.
Super useful video! And I like how you made it short so that it’s easy to check a colour group. I will send my viewers over for DS Lightfast tests! 👍🏼😊
You're teaching me to think differently, not just about paint pigments, but about color and about both envisioning and analyzing the palette I want to assemble for a given painting or series of paintings. At this point, I'm more amazed than frustrated by how vast my ignorance is.
Rhodanite is always a bit surprise. We generally expect mineral colors to be highly lightfast, and Daniel Smith encourages this idea. But Rhodanite quickly oxidizes and loses its beautiful color and goes brown. It is simply wrong for Daniel Smith to rate this as a "I" color. I would regard it as "III" at best.
Wow, McCracken black! Considering his art style, this one is tragic! Thank you so much for all of the information you provide! You also get credit for improving our art, because we are more informed. Love and peace from Kansas. 🌻
Thank you so much for your hard work. It's great to have more resources testing lightfastness of paints. It's because of you and the handprint website that I take brands' LF ratings with a grain of salt. I'm a bit sad to see Bordeaux there because it's one of the colors I've always wanted to get but I'm trying my best to prioritize the basic mixing colors first since artist grade paints are quite expensive. Prussian Blue (and Green) are a bit funny aren't they? Made me chuckle a little bit when in handprint, it said that PB27 can ignite during grinding, and now it made me laugh again when you said _"no one really should be expected to take their paintings off the wall for a nap"_
Hehe I always laugh when I have those thoughts about Prussian too. Yes, I too was a bit disappointed about PV32. Bordeaux fades less than some, but it is a mixable color that you could try to achieve using more stable paints. Happy painting :)
Many thanks for all your work. I have got so tired of paint and pastel producers who do not do the right thing. And there is absolutely no excuse for those who label products as lightfast when they are definitely not; they can easily do the requisite lightfast tests.
Thank you *so much!* Spent down time (finally!) on your database and the brands (which I'd missed before) and it's like a treasure! I personally really appreciate this sort of video!
Thanks! Lightfast info is always useful. I do my own testing too, and am just realistic about using those pretty reds and pinks in my sketchbooks instead of something that would go on the wall. But in truth, I look at those strips and feel grateful for the immense amount of lightfast colors we do have to play with.
It's true, there's well over a hundred single pigment paints and countless mixtures that will stay completely lightfast even in years of sunlight. I am really glad we have so many to play with. Now if only we could get the ones that aren't so lightfast to be properly labeled! Happy painting :)
Thank you for the massive amount of time you put into this and for sharing your results for free. Maybe I miss something but I thought when a colour is professionally (after ASTM or blue wool), I can trust the results. I understand the inhouse tests might be wrong and the diluted paint results but not the masstone.I find this very frustrating. So it's best to just sell prints.
It is very frustrating... sometimes professional astm/bws tests are done using a pigment in another binder - such as acrylic or oil paint. Many times that same rating is put on watercolor paint labels, even though diluting with water isn’t the same as tints in white for acrylic. Then there’s brand differences, if everyone says PR177 is LFI because QOR had a good sample, other brands may assume their PR177 is fine too even if it was made in another country. It’s crazy the type of information that gets passed down to us as consumers!
@@KimberlyCrick sorry, I just saw your reply. Thanks for explaining the procedure to me. It is just confusing. Makes me wonder if it is really worth buying the expensive brands when we cannot trust the information on the label.
Fantastic! It’s wonderful to see everything you are doing to raise awareness of this critical information. 👏🏼 🙏 Several pigments DS uses were known to be fugitive decades ago. I have no doubt they knowingly use them because they’re cheaper in mixtures than the lightfast alternatives. I still use DS paint, but it’s important to look past the marketing hype. Focus on single pigments that are known to be reliable, and create your own mixtures as needed.
I love these types of videos (also your blog). They're so informative, and have really helped me choose what to buy and what to avoid, as I create work for non-artists, who don't necessarily know not to hang paintings in direct sunlight. I also don't have access to a window that's in direct sunlight enough, so it's hard to lightfast test on my own.
Kim, thank you so much for doing this, as well as providing such insightful and helpful information on your website. However disappointing, it is honest and trustworthy…two things which, sadly, I can no longer say about the brand. As always, your input is invaluable; thank you so much for all you do for the watercolor community.
Awesome video and update! I knew there were some problem pigments, but yikes.. that list is longer than I expected. I always laugh when you talk about Prussian Blue, "A painting should not need a nap" lol. Biggest surprise to me has got to be those Duo & Iridescents; you said it appears to be something undisclosed in them? That's sad. Anyways, thanks for the info! I look forward to seeing how everything looks after the 1 year mark!
Yes, there's no reason for a color made of PW20, PW6 and an iron oxide to fade the way these do. There has to be a fugitive undisclosed red pigment in those duo cactus/pinkish pearl colors and a fugitive blue in sapphire they aren't telling us about. Sad about the length of this list too! It'll be worse at one year :(
Great video and a good reminder to not blindly trust the manufacturers' words when it comes to lightfastness. To me personally Perylene Maroon was the suprise here, I thought it would hold up better.
Have you ever sprayed a UV protectant on your swatches to see if that would help? Some of these colors surprised and disappointed me. Thanks for taking the time to do this!
Yes, I tried Krylon's UV clear spray and archival sprays, both of which caused the colors to change weirdly over time. Sometimes the fading was slightly less, but instead made a pink lean orange as it faded. I know that some artists have had success with thick layers of resin instead of thin sprays (thick distorts UV better) but you're really just better off using stable trustworthy pigments from the start. Most UV protective glass is useless too, unless it's the very expensive kind used in museums that would be cost prohibitive to most artists sadly.
@@KimberlyCrick thank you for the video & this additional comment! Been researching UV sprays as a possible solution and you just save me a ton of time.
@@kookatsoonjan In general it's always a gamble if you'll ruin your painting by applying surface treatments and sealers. Cold wax application is a delicate time consuming process that results in slightly changed colors and a minor sheen in areas with even paper-thin layers of over-application. Since Krylon varnish can not only discolor watercolor, but also yellow over time (the "archival" varnish supposedly is more safe) I don't see how this type of thing would be preferable over just using the most lightfast paints. If you're trying to save a painting you've already done though, Golden acrylic makes some UV protectant varnishes that may be more effective than Krylon (the application of which still has the risk of changing the appearance of your watercolors though).
@@KimberlyCrick Thanks for your honest opinion...so many different ones out there...I guess all the pastel artists out there, that use Krylon fixative will also have colour changes...I think that is why they say that oil and acrylic paintings hold their value more so than pastel or H2O...Possibly also why there are so so many glicee prints everywhere, and way less originals...but I guess no sun is a good rule of thumb. So many reds, purples and pinks are not lightfast...like a primary colour...but I guess there are at least one of the warm and cool reds, that are more lightfast than others.
Thanks Kimberly! Honestly, in order not to go crazy with lightfastness concerns, I think it may be best to get high quality prints done for many of our works. I understand that Epson print inks used on higher quality giclee prints are more lightfast/permanent/archival than the paints used to create them. BUT I wouldn't take that as totally accurate without doing more research on the topic.
Thank you Kimberly! Yes, any you can do is always helpful. I'm doing some of my own LF tests too. I think we all need to do some for ourselves as well. 👍😊
This is extremely useful and I'm glad I accidentally stumbled upon this as I've invested quite a bit of money over the past couple of months into DS paints, and I'd definitely would like to see updates regarding these. What have happened after a year, and more. I rarely hang paintings on my own wall, so most of my work is protected from light - but this is still VERY important to me if I were to give away or sell a painting. Getting high quality lightfastness pigments, that granulates was one of the big reasons why I decided to invest in DS.. So far the most of what I've bought seem to have manage your 6months test well, but Moonglow is a big bummer I have to say..... Whished I had known that before, and could've skipped buying it and instead mixed it myself.
Thank you so very much! It’s really hard when the manufacturers call something permanent and say it has excellent staying power… I know that pigments like PR 177, have always been fugitive, so despite what Daniel Smith says about colors containing this pigment I know to avoid it. But I never would have thought that some of the colors you mentioned like permanent red deep, or fugitive! Or at least should be avoided for sellable work.
Thank you so much for shating this information. I'm saddened by the results, but glad that now we have the information to decide if we want to continue to buy their products
I've been iffy about my Mayan Blue tube for a long time and people didn't believe me when I told them! The tube is almost 2 years old now and the paint inside the tube works well. However, the paint I poured into my palettes 1 year ago and dried in my palettes has changed. It's been kept inside a palette in a dry room, no humidity and no sunlight. Yet now when you rewet it and paint with it it's a dark grey almost black hue! Even stored in a palette the paint corrupts.
That is really good to know!!! I believe you, i had the same problem with sodalite genuine actually. It turned black from blue after a couple years in a dry pan!
@@dannychen1064 it's disappointing. Regarding the recent DS controversy and how I complained about their mislabeling, someone told me I was whining and didn't have any right to complain because the paints are beautiful anyway. If this DS issue had happened with a fancy jewellery company that sells real "gold" items that are just copper with a fine gold layer while charging the price of gold, they'd complain, too!
@@Shesvii haha you're so right. In fact we should complain more when the CEO of that jewelry company issued a claim that 'that is how things are done."
I'll definitely work on that! I'm currently doing full range testing for Schmincke and Sennelier for upcoming videos, as well as a couple color spotlights for a specific pigment that many brands have lightfast issues with.
Oh my goodness, Bordeaux colour fading just broke my heart :_( And I don't use Duo or Iridescent colours but... Is it a joke?! This brand has lost the honour completly for me. Thanks again, Queen of Pigments ;)
I know, I too was sad by Bordeaux and am hoping the fading doesn't get much worse between 6 to 12 months. I'd hate to see that one fade more. I couldn't believe how long the list of iridescent problem colors was...
Thank you for your hard work at bringing up this important issue. It's so easy to buy the pretty colors but I am going to be vigilant when I buy new paints from now on. I bought DS opera pink on a whim and am now sorry I bought it.
I’m a new subscriber. Binging your videos,lol. WOW! Thank you SO much for this video, and your time, and your honest truth. They just have SO many “ convenience” colors that are so beautiful. I don’t mind mixing my own colors, it’s just so dang hard to not contaminate your colors. You need 3 brushes out at once. Or have to reload your dirty water to clean a lot. It really blew my mind when I saw your Arteza LF test. Well, I guess you get what you pay for….. usually. Anyway, thanks again. I think I’ll get a dot card for now. Really interested in M. Graham. Honey based like my Mission Golds. They rewet so well. I’ll see if u have a M. Graham LF video. 🙏🏻🖌🌞
I'm not a big fan of MGraham unfortunately I've had too many problems with them. I have enjoyed Mission Gold in the past, but Sennelier honey colors are my favorite of the honey based watercolors because they can hold gradients really well (colors stay where you put them in wet washes, keeping your blending work in place). In case you want to see my in-progress summary about my MGraham experience, you can find it at - www.kimcrick.com/pages/m-graham-watercolor-paint-review-color-chart-swatch-cards-lightfast-tests
Thank you so much for this video, it is very helpful and much appreciated! Lately I became confused by Da Vinci lightfast ratings. For some reason they rate many pigments LFII, that are rated LFI in most other brands, including some Hansa Yellow pigments, many quinacridones, phthalos, and some earth tones. I don't know whether their paints are indeed not as lightfast as others', or they're just being more conservative with their rating. I know LFII is still considered suitable for art purposes, but if that rating indeed reflect the actual lightfastness of the paints, I'd rather invest in Daniel Smith or other brand with a better LF rating... It would be extremely helpful if you could do a lightfast test for Da Vinci paints, or maybe comparing their LF to other brands!
DaVinci doesn't make too many fugitive colors (avoid opera which has dye in it and artemis that has PR177 along with 2 mixtures with weak ingredients like PY40 and PR88 and the PH/heat sensitive Cobalt Violet PV14 which is rated LFI in all brands despite its tendency to fade). DaVinci does not make paints that are more or less fugitive than other brands of the same ingredient. Every company can choose to publish ratings based on 3 common options: 1) the published ASTM record at the time (a publication listing pigment numbers and their assigned LF rating - where a different brands pigment was tested), 2)the published blue wool scale rating from the pigment manufacturer (converted into LF scale and may or may not include tints/diluted tests that reduce the rating appropriately), 3) rarely a paint company will test their own paints and not follow the common previous examples (such as golden/qor does their own amazingly in-depth testing including machine and natural light and really diluted tints, then self-rates their labels). These choices are also why brands sometimes offer conflicting information. Such as Sennelier which has a rating of LFIII but also 3/3 max stars for PR122 Magenta on their chart, because they offer the ASTM old published rating (despite being outdated from a bad brand in the 1990s) along with a more accurate self rating. Sadly that results in a confusing "fugitive and lightfast" rating at the same time despite PR122 being lightfast. I usually spend more time concerned about flagging problem pigment code numbers rather than listening to the brand rating. Yes, LFI and LFII are both considered lightfast for fine art since it would take about 50-100 years of indoor light for these to become problematic. Some LFI colors are actually BW9 (we just don't commonly test that high) so some LFI/BW8 rated colors will fade in a year or two of direct sun while others may last a lifetime (iron oxides could be BW9/converted to LF0 if we had such a rating). A pigment number known to fade in one brand will VERY likely be the same amount of fading in another brand - regardless of rating. There are some rare exceptions to this (PR177 and PV23 can have a slight chemical variation with superior UV durability). For those particular pigments I've found only Qor uses the more durable PR177 and only cheap student paints use the cheap fugitive PV23. I'm slowly working on making a list on my website for the pigment code numbers to avoid. The brand review pages on my site will likely continue to receive more image updates regarding LF rather than video updates over the next year. Testing is in progress for several thousand colors across 50+ paint brands. Happy painting :)
yes, I had no idea that so many paints are not light fast as listed. Would love to see more of these test for brands I use, includeing W & N, Sennelier, Mission Gold, Holbein and Roman Szmal, st. petersburg
Will do! Until then, I recently posted images of W&Newton's full range lightfast test results at www.kimcrick.com/pages/winsor-and-newton-professional-watercolor-review-109-color-chart-swatch-cards-lightfast-test
Thank you, so very much appreciated. I really wish these companies would be more rigorous and truthful, it's not right that we have to second guess them like this and do our own tests. It's not as though their wouldn't still be a market for the fugative paints. We ought to be able to trust and make our own informed choices when handing over our money.
Thank you for sharing your results! It's so valuable! ☺️ I'm surprised your Aussie Red Gold held up okay! Mine lost all of its intensity in under four months, and became dull and drab and pointless. I'm experimenting with finding a mix of my own to replace it with. 🙈
Its not ok, its just still within an acceptable LFII fading or hue shift at this stage. I expect all colors using PY83 will become notably worse by 1 year. There’s a couple other colors like quin red pv19 that are becoming borderline LFIII level problems too. This 6 mo update list is focusing on the very most fragile colors, sadly by 1 year there may be another 5-10 colors that become prominent issues :(
You know, it totally slipped my mind the other day, but I really should mention that this stage of the test is the least brutal sun wise as it spanned winter months. As it gets more intense summer sun the fading will increase, so if you did your test in stronger UV rays it would be faster!
@@KimberlyCrick Ah, okay! Great to know, I didn't realise that! 😊 Yeah, I'm in Sweden. I'd guess our UV index is around 6-7 in the summer (when my test was made), so not as high compared to other countries, but we have sun for a longer time per day. It should definitely exceed the UV stenght during the winter months, at least in many places. :)
Great video! I noticed that you had Anthraquinoid Scarlet (PR 168) in your Fugitive listed, but didn't see it in the video. Was it as bad as Anthraquinoid Red? I was hoping to use it for a more transparent replacement to Pyrrol Scarlett, but it seems that it might not be worth switching :). Thanks!
rewatching this video in light of ds buckling down on their bs, and i was wondering whether anyone's managed to dupe sodalite yet. it's one of the only daniel smith colours that i haven't really been able to work out a look-alike mix for, and i'm interested in other people's findings 👀
It's a tricky one for sure. I'm slowly working my way through some other Primatek dupes, but if I crack the code on Sodalite I'll be sure to make a video. I haven't gotten all my colors out to play with mixtures for it yet, but if I had to guess Schmincke's French Ultramarine (the most granulating PB29) and Lunar Black (or someones highly granulating PBk11) may be a good start. I'm pretty bummed out about DS and the Jackson's post... it was really sad to see them blow off artist findings of what are plainly LFIII-IV marginal to fugitive colors that are all sold as LFI.
Just watched this again after watching a DS live promoting the Luminescents. Glad I didn’t order any. Wondering if I add Iridescent medium to my paint if it would have the same effect.
I know this impeccable research will save me money and my reputation. Takes so much work! Thank you! Fwiw, I mix D.S. opera pink w UV-blocking medium, supposedly, and fixative or hairspray will prevent it from staining journals and often-handled works.
this is so useful!!! I need to do this myself with my coloured pencils, don't have enough watercolours at the moment to do a lightfast test with them, but plenty of pencils to try. thank you for doing this 😀
I mean, I don't even hang my illustrations on a wall, regardless it really bothers me that all the Mayan colors are so fugitive, they're my faves and I use at least one of them in every picture. Could you maybe consider making a video about alternatives for these special colors?
I made a note to look into duping them in the future. At some point I'll see what colors with better lightfastness may be able to closely mimic mayan red and blue. Luckily if you're not hanging art near a window I doubt you'll ever see problems with your paintings.
It's surprising that the purpurite genuine did not fade. It went bad in tube I've bought few years from now, from earthy violet to muddy grey and hard like rock, impossible to squeeze from the tube. The tube has been storaged in the same conditions as the other primatecs and artist quality paints that I own and that have preserved the perfect quality.
Its because of the pv16 manganese violet (purpurite is the natural form of that pigment). MV is sensitive to the slightly acidic nature of gum arabic, so tubes do not stay good forever. This is not a lightfastness issue, once painted and in a dry state it's very UV durable. Sitting in wet gum and binder additives for years has made all of my brands tubes start to have browning and hardening over time.
@@KimberlyCrick That's great to know. I've never experienced this issue with any of my paint tubes, even though I have some tubes older than this. I'd rather see separation of the binder. Is this an issue also with synthetic manganese violet? I wonder if my W&N or Rembrandt may go bad.
@@izabelacichanska5781 Yes, synthetic or natural MV can brown or harden from acids over time. It really depends on the particular type of gum arabic and the overall PH level of that specific brand's binder additives. Because it's so sensitive, a relatively minor change like a different source of tree sap, can cause one brand to harden much quicker than others. DaVinci brand had such a bad problem with their tubes going bad they had to completely remove the color from their catalog for a time. I have seen issues in my Sennelier and DS over the years, but not yet in my dry pans (bought as dry, not tube to pan). It's likely only a matter of time before all brands have some issue.
Can two light-fast pigments mixed together become fugitive? I'm planning on making a split primaries palette and wanted to know if I'd have any issues with the colors after they're mixed. I've never seen anyone ask nor answer this question.
Not usually. I've never seen two lightfast pigments become fugitive when mixed with other pigments. There are sometimes chemical interactions between colors or ingredients though. Like Malachite and honey based binder will start to turn yellow-brown when mixed together while typically stable individually. There may be rare interactions between certain chemicals like cadmiums or nickel azo with sulphides or mercury in some rare toxic pigments like Cinnabar / Vermilion PR106. These type of interactions are pretty rare in most common modern pigment mixtures.
Thank you so much for doing this Kimberly. Do you happen to know of a similar color in other brands to the D.S. Terre Verde? It is SO expensive in my country I would love to have other options. Anybody know here? Love to everybody here!
Massive undertaking! Thanks for the hard work. Is there a list of just the names of * through ***** rated pigments? I went to the page you list, but it's kinda confusing without a list. Am i jusy not seeing a list?
I am new to painting and watercolor. How disappointing to learn that even when buying an top shelf brand of paint, one can not trust that the paint will be lightfast! Lightfastness should be a major consideration!
This is super helpful as always! Thanks! I have been wondering about cobalt pigments. You mentioned PG19 (I think?) as turning solid and brown in the tube. I've also read your section on the website about Cobalt violet deep PV14 reacting weirdly to environmental factors. Do you think Cobalt green PG50 or their Cobalt Violet PV49 would experience either of these issues as well?
I am really hopeful about PV49 as a PV14 alternative, since Cobalt Violet has been so strange. I'm testing multiple types and will definitely make a video about it in the future. I have never seen any issues at all with PG50 including all of the green and teal variants - they seem stable. Thankfully, they are some of my favorites! I think Daniel Smith's PG19 might be acting a bit like Roman Szmal's malachite, having some acidic chemical reaction with the binder causing yellowing. Luckily that seems to be a rare thing.
Ooh that's very exciting news! I've separated my PV14 from my lightfast/archival pigments and was also hopeful for PV49! It's an absolutely gorgeous color! And different than Sennelier's Cobalt Violet Deep Hue (which is also super lovely but not as pink) I'm thrilled to learn my green PG50 is good to use!
Permanent alizarine crimson, rhodonite, and opera are all in a row on my palette. That is now the dunce corner! I knew Mayan blue genuine wasn't the most light-fast, but it's worse than I imagined. I'm kind of heart broken over that one. I would love to see Windsor Newton professional, thank you for your work.
Mayan Blue was very sad. The “dunce corner” made me laugh! I have posted the results for Winsor and Newton’s 1 year lf test at kimcrick.com if you’re curious about which colors fade. The really shocking one from them was cadmium free orange rated LFI but fading as bad as opera LFIV!
@@KimberlyCrick I will check out your results right away! I never bought any of the cadmium free colors, it annoyed me that they won't reveal the pigments, yet made them all series 4. Again, thank you for all your work. I'm glad I could give you a laugh, you made me laugh about the Prussian blue 💙.
How much time did it take for you to collect all this paint? Your collection is very impressive. Thanks for the video. Also please do a white nights lightfastness report next :)
I’ve been painting for about 10 years, there’s paint e v e r y w h e r e lol. White nights old lf report is in my 36 se/yarka st petesberg video. A new test has only recently started since white nights just got rid of a ton of fugitive colors in 2020, removing a lot of problem pigments from their catalog. I will be doing a spotlight on PO64 fading next, white nights orange and peach though - it’s really bad!
@@KimberlyCrick Great, that's a brand I am considering upgrading to. I am now using their Sonnet student grade set. That is pretty good, but has quite some fugitive paints in it (which is not a big deal, considering the price and overall quality of that set).
It’s been a while Daniel Smith has been claiming their watercolor to be vegan at least from 2017. That would mean there’s no ox-gall, animal glycerine neither honey. This is for elders that have been painting with DS watercolors for a long time. Have you perceived any difference regarding this watercolor performance from the old tubes to the new tubes?
Close up images for both desaturation and fading of rhodonite can be found on the written review at www.kimcrick.com/pages/daniel-smith-watercolor-lightfast-testing-reviews-demo-painting-videos
How can they ignore these FACTS, which is all you ever share. Thank You Kimberly so very much!
This is the second time that I've watched this video. The first time, I didn't really understand the importance of learning pigments. But for now, I am focusing on watercolor basics more than actually painting a picture. I live in Florida, so I don't want to tell people to avoid hanging my art in a sunny room. Best to just avoid fugitive colors all together. Thank you for all your hard work 💜
For the fun of it, I did my own lightfast test on DS Moonglow, (rated lightfast 1), and DS Mayan Blue (rated 2). I put the swatches in a southwest facing window from February to August. I was very surprised to see the color shift in the Moonglow. It went from purple to blue, so the PR177 definitely faded. The Mayan Blue faded also, becoming more greenish, but that was to be expected. Needless to say, I have no trust in DS's labeling and will certainly do more research before buying any more paint.
Thank you for bringing attention to lightfastness with your research and videos!
As always, thank you so much for your work and resources, Kimberly. I *doubt* they'll reply to this, but I am curious how they'd refute these results (hilarious that their Aureolin is rated LFII - guess I never looked).
Why should they try to refute the results? DS and other manufacturers use different methods and test to different standards, so it would be like comparing apples to moon dust. This video is tested in accordance with ASTM D5398, “Standard Practice for Visual Evaluation of the Lightfastness of Art Materials by the User”. Manufacturers test to more rigid and controlled standards of ASTM D4303, “Standard Test Methods for Lightfastness of Colorants Used in Artists’ Materials”.
Carmine, Shadow Violet and Sicklerite have shown issues in a past full 1 year test, but are not notable at the 6 month mark. *There are more than a few colors I don’t have 1yr results for yet, but expect increased fading in between 6-12 mo.* Any color with PY83 in the mix, such as Aussie Red Gold will likely tip into LFIII fading levels as time goes on. Keep in mind this is the halfway mark in this test only exposing the most fragile colors. I expect another 5+ colors will be added to the list later on. You may want to avoid these colors if marginal lightfastness is not appropriate for your work (for sale/long term wall display/brightly lit business offices etc.). If for some reason I get too busy to update in video format at the 1 year mark, I'll post photo results on the brand page within the "art supply reviews and lightfast testing" section of www.kimcrick.com/
Did you notice something with the Sleeping beauty turquoise? I bought a tube recently, so I'm concerned. Few years ago it faded to a pale brown olive on Jane Blundell's window. (See her blog)
@@__A_S__ this is my second test including SBturq and I haven’t seen issues. However DS has had problem batches of colors before. I have a sodalite that turns black, another artist mentioned Mayan blue also discolored away from light in her dry pan. Sadly it would not surprise me if some batches are just bad.
@@KimberlyCrick Thank you so much for your tests! So, this is like with White Nights, depending on a batch. You never know... Will get my fingers crossed, for mine isn't spoiled. Thank you.
I wonder if
1) Our harsh Aussie sun would make more difference,
2) if using a piece of museum glass or truview glass over tests by framing a small section, with air gap, or just placing glass over it may reduce these results.
3) using a few fixative tests may help increase light fastness?
4)Jane Blundell has done her own lightfastness tests, and only came up with a few colours that changed, from the mass tone. I talk to her regularly, and so can give this site to her. She will be interested to know this.
I would love to see a video of just all the most fugitive paint colours just listed so that I can easily just reference it and avoid buying or using them
You can screen shot or just jot down the list provided... I'm betting there will be additions to the "fugitive pigments" page on her website as well as the Daniel Smith brand page, she's been updating it regularly.
She has a very detailed blog entry with amazing lists of all the problematic pigments with photos and information! You should check out Kimberly's site!
@@Shesvii Yes. I plan to do that 👍
If only John Cogley could stop repeating the same "answer" and really take a look about what the users (us, painters) want to know about the actual lightfastness of the paints....
he's been busing making color demonstration videos left and right. Doubt he'll ever stop to look.
I imagine tge REAL Dan Smith rues the day he sold his name to Cogley et al
...stop buying his paints if he doesn't fcukn listen. .. go schminke or mgraham , etc perhaps send him emails.
This is going to come in very handy. Thank you for taking the time to do this, and share your results. Please keep this up. I really appreciate it
Your channel is such an amazing resource. Not only are you helping us make smart financial decisions, but you make all the information easily accessible by collating it in one place. Definitely would be curious to see any other lightfastness tests you'd perform.
TY! Not surprised in the slightest. Yet more undisclosed pigments too. UGH. This list is very helpful though and I greatly appreciate all of your hard work and investment.
I too have a large selection of Daniel Smith paints and think I will do a lightfast test of my own. It will be fun to see these colors swatched a bit larger and see how they work out for me. I seriously am not surprised by this many colors fading. I don’t think that list is terrible considering the large number of paints Daniel Smith makes. I would love to see more lightfast tests - among other professional grade paints also. I love Daniel Smith and if I’m painting something seriously important I will avoid the fading pigments. I will love and enjoy their unique beauty in my sketchbooks.
Thanks Kimberly!
Definitely happy that it's a pretty small portion of the colors that have fading issues. If we could just get some proper labeling on a few of the most fugitive ones so we know what isn't ideal for sale, I think a lot of us would still love to use them in sketchbooks.
@@KimberlyCrick I heard via Steve Mitchell ,that NO H2O PAINTING SHOULD EVER BE PUT IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT...everything eventually will fade...especially more watered-down washes...especially any of the cobalts and reds...and of course opera with the uv thing.Cadmiums...I have heard, like the yellows, reds and oranges, fade much less...when exposed to sunlight
@@kookatsoonjan There are over a hundred pigments that can withstand repeat daily sunlight for many years. No watercolor should be stored in direct sunlight, unfortunately only *some* artists know this. Many people who buy art may hang it in their livingrooms across from a large sliding glass door for display. Each day around sunset or sunrise beams of light shine through onto the art, which is why it's important for those who sell work to understand which pigments are the most durable. It would be best to skip the ones we know can fade in just months, versus many years.
Super useful video! And I like how you made it short so that it’s easy to check a colour group. I will send my viewers over for DS Lightfast tests! 👍🏼😊
Thanks Alyona, I appreciate that and I'm glad it was useful!
You're teaching me to think differently, not just about paint pigments, but about color and about both envisioning and analyzing the palette I want to assemble for a given painting or series of paintings. At this point, I'm more amazed than frustrated by how vast my ignorance is.
Wow! Great job!
Thank you so much! I definitely would love to see more lightfast test videos!
Thank You for all of your work here! Bright to you 😊
Rhodanite is always a bit surprise. We generally expect mineral colors to be highly lightfast, and Daniel Smith encourages this idea. But Rhodanite quickly oxidizes and loses its beautiful color and goes brown. It is simply wrong for Daniel Smith to rate this as a "I" color. I would regard it as "III" at best.
Fabulous video! Thank you so much for sharing your findings with us. We appreciate getting the truth about how lightfast these paints really are.
Wow, McCracken black! Considering his art style, this one is tragic! Thank you so much for all of the information you provide! You also get credit for improving our art, because we are more informed. Love and peace from Kansas. 🌻
Thank you so much for your hard work. It's great to have more resources testing lightfastness of paints. It's because of you and the handprint website that I take brands' LF ratings with a grain of salt.
I'm a bit sad to see Bordeaux there because it's one of the colors I've always wanted to get but I'm trying my best to prioritize the basic mixing colors first since artist grade paints are quite expensive.
Prussian Blue (and Green) are a bit funny aren't they? Made me chuckle a little bit when in handprint, it said that PB27 can ignite during grinding, and now it made me laugh again when you said _"no one really should be expected to take their paintings off the wall for a nap"_
Hehe I always laugh when I have those thoughts about Prussian too. Yes, I too was a bit disappointed about PV32. Bordeaux fades less than some, but it is a mixable color that you could try to achieve using more stable paints. Happy painting :)
this is so useful! thanks for taking the time to share it with us.
Many thanks for all your work. I have got so tired of paint and pastel producers who do not do the right thing. And there is absolutely no excuse for those who label products as lightfast when they are definitely not; they can easily do the requisite lightfast tests.
Thank you *so much!* Spent down time (finally!) on your database and the brands (which I'd missed before) and it's like a treasure! I personally really appreciate this sort of video!
Thanks! Lightfast info is always useful. I do my own testing too, and am just realistic about using those pretty reds and pinks in my sketchbooks instead of something that would go on the wall. But in truth, I look at those strips and feel grateful for the immense amount of lightfast colors we do have to play with.
It's true, there's well over a hundred single pigment paints and countless mixtures that will stay completely lightfast even in years of sunlight. I am really glad we have so many to play with. Now if only we could get the ones that aren't so lightfast to be properly labeled! Happy painting :)
Thank you for the massive amount of time you put into this and for sharing your results for free.
Maybe I miss something but I thought when a colour is professionally (after ASTM or blue wool), I can trust the results. I understand the inhouse tests might be wrong and the diluted paint results but not the masstone.I find this very frustrating. So it's best to just sell prints.
It is very frustrating... sometimes professional astm/bws tests are done using a pigment in another binder - such as acrylic or oil paint. Many times that same rating is put on watercolor paint labels, even though diluting with water isn’t the same as tints in white for acrylic. Then there’s brand differences, if everyone says PR177 is LFI because QOR had a good sample, other brands may assume their PR177 is fine too even if it was made in another country. It’s crazy the type of information that gets passed down to us as consumers!
@@KimberlyCrick sorry, I just saw your reply. Thanks for explaining the procedure to me. It is just confusing. Makes me wonder if it is really worth buying the expensive brands when we cannot trust the information on the label.
Fantastic! It’s wonderful to see everything you are doing to raise awareness of this critical information. 👏🏼 🙏 Several pigments DS uses were known to be fugitive decades ago. I have no doubt they knowingly use them because they’re cheaper in mixtures than the lightfast alternatives. I still use DS paint, but it’s important to look past the marketing hype. Focus on single pigments that are known to be reliable, and create your own mixtures as needed.
Thank you for all the work you put into this. It's great to have this information available to us and not just rely on Daniel Smith's word 🙏
Thank you for exposing the true nature of these paints! This information has helped me build a more stable palette.
I love these types of videos (also your blog). They're so informative, and have really helped me choose what to buy and what to avoid, as I create work for non-artists, who don't necessarily know not to hang paintings in direct sunlight. I also don't have access to a window that's in direct sunlight enough, so it's hard to lightfast test on my own.
Kim, thank you so much for doing this, as well as providing such insightful and helpful information on your website. However disappointing, it is honest and trustworthy…two things which, sadly, I can no longer say about the brand. As always, your input is invaluable; thank you so much for all you do for the watercolor community.
Wow, this is one of the most complete tests on this subject. Thank you
Awesome video and update! I knew there were some problem pigments, but yikes.. that list is longer than I expected. I always laugh when you talk about Prussian Blue, "A painting should not need a nap" lol. Biggest surprise to me has got to be those Duo & Iridescents; you said it appears to be something undisclosed in them? That's sad. Anyways, thanks for the info! I look forward to seeing how everything looks after the 1 year mark!
Yes, there's no reason for a color made of PW20, PW6 and an iron oxide to fade the way these do. There has to be a fugitive undisclosed red pigment in those duo cactus/pinkish pearl colors and a fugitive blue in sapphire they aren't telling us about. Sad about the length of this list too! It'll be worse at one year :(
Great video and a good reminder to not blindly trust the manufacturers' words when it comes to lightfastness. To me personally Perylene Maroon was the suprise here, I thought it would hold up better.
I'm here for this! Thank you so much for taking the time to update us.
Thanks for doing this! Very helpful and I'd love to see future updates!
Have you ever sprayed a UV protectant on your swatches to see if that would help? Some of these colors surprised and disappointed me. Thanks for taking the time to do this!
Yes, I tried Krylon's UV clear spray and archival sprays, both of which caused the colors to change weirdly over time. Sometimes the fading was slightly less, but instead made a pink lean orange as it faded. I know that some artists have had success with thick layers of resin instead of thin sprays (thick distorts UV better) but you're really just better off using stable trustworthy pigments from the start. Most UV protective glass is useless too, unless it's the very expensive kind used in museums that would be cost prohibitive to most artists sadly.
@@KimberlyCrick thank you for the video & this additional comment! Been researching UV sprays as a possible solution and you just save me a ton of time.
@@KimberlyCrick Whatcha think about the "cold wax" treatment, and then a krylon varnish...like the one you use for pastels?
@@kookatsoonjan In general it's always a gamble if you'll ruin your painting by applying surface treatments and sealers. Cold wax application is a delicate time consuming process that results in slightly changed colors and a minor sheen in areas with even paper-thin layers of over-application. Since Krylon varnish can not only discolor watercolor, but also yellow over time (the "archival" varnish supposedly is more safe) I don't see how this type of thing would be preferable over just using the most lightfast paints. If you're trying to save a painting you've already done though, Golden acrylic makes some UV protectant varnishes that may be more effective than Krylon (the application of which still has the risk of changing the appearance of your watercolors though).
@@KimberlyCrick Thanks for your honest opinion...so many different ones out there...I guess all the pastel artists out there, that use Krylon fixative will also have colour changes...I think that is why they say that oil and acrylic paintings hold their value more so than pastel or H2O...Possibly also why there are so so many glicee prints everywhere, and way less originals...but I guess no sun is a good rule of thumb. So many reds, purples and pinks are not lightfast...like a primary colour...but I guess there are at least one of the warm and cool reds, that are more lightfast than others.
Thanks Kimberly! Honestly, in order not to go crazy with lightfastness concerns, I think it may be best to get high quality prints done for many of our works. I understand that Epson print inks used on higher quality giclee prints are more lightfast/permanent/archival than the paints used to create them. BUT I wouldn't take that as totally accurate without doing more research on the topic.
Thank you Kimberly! Yes, any you can do is always helpful. I'm doing some of my own LF tests too. I think we all need to do some for ourselves as well. 👍😊
This is extremely useful and I'm glad I accidentally stumbled upon this as I've invested quite a bit of money over the past couple of months into DS paints, and I'd definitely would like to see updates regarding these. What have happened after a year, and more. I rarely hang paintings on my own wall, so most of my work is protected from light - but this is still VERY important to me if I were to give away or sell a painting.
Getting high quality lightfastness pigments, that granulates was one of the big reasons why I decided to invest in DS.. So far the most of what I've bought seem to have manage your 6months test well, but Moonglow is a big bummer I have to say..... Whished I had known that before, and could've skipped buying it and instead mixed it myself.
Excellent! Thank you for all your hard work.
This is super helpful! I scan all my work & rarely sell/give originals but it’s still important to know what I’m using. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you so very much! It’s really hard when the manufacturers call something permanent and say it has excellent staying power… I know that pigments like PR 177, have always been fugitive, so despite what Daniel Smith says about colors containing this pigment I know to avoid it. But I never would have thought that some of the colors you mentioned like permanent red deep, or fugitive! Or at least should be avoided for sellable work.
Just had a look at your website...invaluable info on lightfastness...keep up the excellent work - thanks
Thank you so much for shating this information. I'm saddened by the results, but glad that now we have the information to decide if we want to continue to buy their products
Thanks!
The moral of this story is to never trust the company and always do your own tests. I'll start on that this afternoon. Great information here. Thanks.
I've been iffy about my Mayan Blue tube for a long time and people didn't believe me when I told them! The tube is almost 2 years old now and the paint inside the tube works well.
However, the paint I poured into my palettes 1 year ago and dried in my palettes has changed. It's been kept inside a palette in a dry room, no humidity and no sunlight. Yet now when you rewet it and paint with it it's a dark grey almost black hue! Even stored in a palette the paint corrupts.
That is really good to know!!! I believe you, i had the same problem with sodalite genuine actually. It turned black from blue after a couple years in a dry pan!
@@KimberlyCrick oh noooooo! I like the subtle blue of Sodalite! it's so expensive. Why can't DS's "enhanced" chemical help maintain the color ? XD
@@KimberlyCrick I need to check my Sodalite now.
@@dannychen1064 it's disappointing. Regarding the recent DS controversy and how I complained about their mislabeling, someone told me I was whining and didn't have any right to complain because the paints are beautiful anyway.
If this DS issue had happened with a fancy jewellery company that sells real "gold" items that are just copper with a fine gold layer while charging the price of gold, they'd complain, too!
@@Shesvii haha you're so right. In fact we should complain more when the CEO of that jewelry company issued a claim that 'that is how things are done."
Very useful content. It would be interesting to see similar videos for other major brands.
I'll definitely work on that! I'm currently doing full range testing for Schmincke and Sennelier for upcoming videos, as well as a couple color spotlights for a specific pigment that many brands have lightfast issues with.
Thank you for this information. I look forward for more lightfast information videos. 😊💕
Wow! I'm somewhat surprised. This is a really helpful video. Thank you!
Oh my goodness, Bordeaux colour fading just broke my heart :_( And I don't use Duo or Iridescent colours but... Is it a joke?! This brand has lost the honour completly for me. Thanks again, Queen of Pigments ;)
I know, I too was sad by Bordeaux and am hoping the fading doesn't get much worse between 6 to 12 months. I'd hate to see that one fade more. I couldn't believe how long the list of iridescent problem colors was...
So I choose quin violet instead, similar hue with superior lightfastness.
Thank you for your hard work at bringing up this important issue. It's so easy to buy the pretty colors but I am going to be vigilant when I buy new paints from now on. I bought DS opera pink on a whim and am now sorry I bought it.
thanks a lot! would love to see more on other brands
I’m a new subscriber. Binging your videos,lol. WOW! Thank you SO much for this video, and your time, and your honest truth. They just have SO many “ convenience” colors that are so beautiful. I don’t mind mixing my own colors, it’s just so dang hard to not contaminate your colors. You need 3 brushes out at once. Or have to reload your dirty water to clean a lot. It really blew my mind when I saw your Arteza LF test. Well, I guess you get what you pay for….. usually. Anyway, thanks again. I think I’ll get a dot card for now. Really interested in M. Graham. Honey based like my Mission Golds. They rewet so well. I’ll see if u have a M. Graham LF video. 🙏🏻🖌🌞
I'm not a big fan of MGraham unfortunately I've had too many problems with them. I have enjoyed Mission Gold in the past, but Sennelier honey colors are my favorite of the honey based watercolors because they can hold gradients really well (colors stay where you put them in wet washes, keeping your blending work in place). In case you want to see my in-progress summary about my MGraham experience, you can find it at - www.kimcrick.com/pages/m-graham-watercolor-paint-review-color-chart-swatch-cards-lightfast-tests
Amazing work....thank you!
Thanks a lot…great video. I was going to re-invest in more Mayan Blue, but I don’t think I’ll bother now.🤔
Thank you so much for this video, it is very helpful and much appreciated!
Lately I became confused by Da Vinci lightfast ratings. For some reason they rate many pigments LFII, that are rated LFI in most other brands, including some Hansa Yellow pigments, many quinacridones, phthalos, and some earth tones. I don't know whether their paints are indeed not as lightfast as others', or they're just being more conservative with their rating. I know LFII is still considered suitable for art purposes, but if that rating indeed reflect the actual lightfastness of the paints, I'd rather invest in Daniel Smith or other brand with a better LF rating...
It would be extremely helpful if you could do a lightfast test for Da Vinci paints, or maybe comparing their LF to other brands!
DaVinci doesn't make too many fugitive colors (avoid opera which has dye in it and artemis that has PR177 along with 2 mixtures with weak ingredients like PY40 and PR88 and the PH/heat sensitive Cobalt Violet PV14 which is rated LFI in all brands despite its tendency to fade). DaVinci does not make paints that are more or less fugitive than other brands of the same ingredient. Every company can choose to publish ratings based on 3 common options: 1) the published ASTM record at the time (a publication listing pigment numbers and their assigned LF rating - where a different brands pigment was tested), 2)the published blue wool scale rating from the pigment manufacturer (converted into LF scale and may or may not include tints/diluted tests that reduce the rating appropriately), 3) rarely a paint company will test their own paints and not follow the common previous examples (such as golden/qor does their own amazingly in-depth testing including machine and natural light and really diluted tints, then self-rates their labels).
These choices are also why brands sometimes offer conflicting information. Such as Sennelier which has a rating of LFIII but also 3/3 max stars for PR122 Magenta on their chart, because they offer the ASTM old published rating (despite being outdated from a bad brand in the 1990s) along with a more accurate self rating. Sadly that results in a confusing "fugitive and lightfast" rating at the same time despite PR122 being lightfast.
I usually spend more time concerned about flagging problem pigment code numbers rather than listening to the brand rating. Yes, LFI and LFII are both considered lightfast for fine art since it would take about 50-100 years of indoor light for these to become problematic. Some LFI colors are actually BW9 (we just don't commonly test that high) so some LFI/BW8 rated colors will fade in a year or two of direct sun while others may last a lifetime (iron oxides could be BW9/converted to LF0 if we had such a rating). A pigment number known to fade in one brand will VERY likely be the same amount of fading in another brand - regardless of rating. There are some rare exceptions to this (PR177 and PV23 can have a slight chemical variation with superior UV durability). For those particular pigments I've found only Qor uses the more durable PR177 and only cheap student paints use the cheap fugitive PV23. I'm slowly working on making a list on my website for the pigment code numbers to avoid. The brand review pages on my site will likely continue to receive more image updates regarding LF rather than video updates over the next year. Testing is in progress for several thousand colors across 50+ paint brands. Happy painting :)
This us very useful information to me. Thank you for posting this!
yes, I had no idea that so many paints are not light fast as listed. Would love to see more of these test for brands I use, includeing W & N, Sennelier, Mission Gold, Holbein and Roman Szmal, st. petersburg
Will do! Until then, I recently posted images of W&Newton's full range lightfast test results at www.kimcrick.com/pages/winsor-and-newton-professional-watercolor-review-109-color-chart-swatch-cards-lightfast-test
Kim, thank you for this massive effort!! I really appreciate it!
Thank you so much! This video is extremely useful.
Very helpful to see the actual comparisons. Many thanks
Your research is amazing!! And the way you show all of your work is unique. Congratualitons and thanks a lot!! Best regards from Portugal:)
love this comparison!!! thanks so much for uploading it
Excellent video and info, thanks very much. Any video you make, I will watch. 🦩🌺
Thank you for this invaluable testing.
Thank you, so very much appreciated. I really wish these companies would be more rigorous and truthful, it's not right that we have to second guess them like this and do our own tests. It's not as though their wouldn't still be a market for the fugative paints. We ought to be able to trust and make our own informed choices when handing over our money.
Thank you for sharing your results! It's so valuable! ☺️ I'm surprised your Aussie Red Gold held up okay! Mine lost all of its intensity in under four months, and became dull and drab and pointless. I'm experimenting with finding a mix of my own to replace it with. 🙈
Its not ok, its just still within an acceptable LFII fading or hue shift at this stage. I expect all colors using PY83 will become notably worse by 1 year. There’s a couple other colors like quin red pv19 that are becoming borderline LFIII level problems too. This 6 mo update list is focusing on the very most fragile colors, sadly by 1 year there may be another 5-10 colors that become prominent issues :(
@@KimberlyCrick Aaah, I see! Thank you for going such thorough testing on them! I really can't thank you enough!
You know, it totally slipped my mind the other day, but I really should mention that this stage of the test is the least brutal sun wise as it spanned winter months. As it gets more intense summer sun the fading will increase, so if you did your test in stronger UV rays it would be faster!
@@KimberlyCrick Ah, okay! Great to know, I didn't realise that! 😊 Yeah, I'm in Sweden. I'd guess our UV index is around 6-7 in the summer (when my test was made), so not as high compared to other countries, but we have sun for a longer time per day. It should definitely exceed the UV stenght during the winter months, at least in many places. :)
@@KimberlyCrick what would be a lightfast alternative to PY83.
Yes I would love to see more videos like this, thankyou for sharing this!
Great video! I noticed that you had Anthraquinoid Scarlet (PR 168) in your Fugitive listed, but didn't see it in the video. Was it as bad as Anthraquinoid Red? I was hoping to use it for a more transparent replacement to Pyrrol Scarlett, but it seems that it might not be worth switching :). Thanks!
Thanks! This is a very helpful video. I appreciate your work :)
I can't wait to see the results of Mayan Orange.
Thank you for this and your amazing pigment database. I would love you to add M Graham to your future testing please.
rewatching this video in light of ds buckling down on their bs, and i was wondering whether anyone's managed to dupe sodalite yet. it's one of the only daniel smith colours that i haven't really been able to work out a look-alike mix for, and i'm interested in other people's findings 👀
It's a tricky one for sure. I'm slowly working my way through some other Primatek dupes, but if I crack the code on Sodalite I'll be sure to make a video. I haven't gotten all my colors out to play with mixtures for it yet, but if I had to guess Schmincke's French Ultramarine (the most granulating PB29) and Lunar Black (or someones highly granulating PBk11) may be a good start. I'm pretty bummed out about DS and the Jackson's post... it was really sad to see them blow off artist findings of what are plainly LFIII-IV marginal to fugitive colors that are all sold as LFI.
Just watched this again after watching a DS live promoting the Luminescents. Glad I didn’t order any. Wondering if I add Iridescent medium to my paint if it would have the same effect.
I know this impeccable research will save me money and my reputation. Takes so much work! Thank you! Fwiw, I mix D.S. opera pink w UV-blocking medium, supposedly, and fixative or hairspray will prevent it from staining journals and often-handled works.
Hi Kimberly, do you have any result and update on DS quinacridone Coral?
this is so useful!!! I need to do this myself with my coloured pencils, don't have enough watercolours at the moment to do a lightfast test with them, but plenty of pencils to try. thank you for doing this 😀
Thank you so much. ❤
Yes, please 👍🏼 will check out your website 🙏
Does a UV varnish help with light fastness?
Love this, thank you
I mean, I don't even hang my illustrations on a wall, regardless it really bothers me that all the Mayan colors are so fugitive, they're my faves and I use at least one of them in every picture.
Could you maybe consider making a video about alternatives for these special colors?
I made a note to look into duping them in the future. At some point I'll see what colors with better lightfastness may be able to closely mimic mayan red and blue. Luckily if you're not hanging art near a window I doubt you'll ever see problems with your paintings.
It's surprising that the purpurite genuine did not fade. It went bad in tube I've bought few years from now, from earthy violet to muddy grey and hard like rock, impossible to squeeze from the tube. The tube has been storaged in the same conditions as the other primatecs and artist quality paints that I own and that have preserved the perfect quality.
Its because of the pv16 manganese violet (purpurite is the natural form of that pigment). MV is sensitive to the slightly acidic nature of gum arabic, so tubes do not stay good forever. This is not a lightfastness issue, once painted and in a dry state it's very UV durable. Sitting in wet gum and binder additives for years has made all of my brands tubes start to have browning and hardening over time.
@@KimberlyCrick That's great to know. I've never experienced this issue with any of my paint tubes, even though I have some tubes older than this. I'd rather see separation of the binder.
Is this an issue also with synthetic manganese violet? I wonder if my W&N or Rembrandt may go bad.
@@izabelacichanska5781 Yes, synthetic or natural MV can brown or harden from acids over time. It really depends on the particular type of gum arabic and the overall PH level of that specific brand's binder additives. Because it's so sensitive, a relatively minor change like a different source of tree sap, can cause one brand to harden much quicker than others. DaVinci brand had such a bad problem with their tubes going bad they had to completely remove the color from their catalog for a time. I have seen issues in my Sennelier and DS over the years, but not yet in my dry pans (bought as dry, not tube to pan). It's likely only a matter of time before all brands have some issue.
@@KimberlyCrick that's really interesting and useful info, thank you for sharing😃
Such great info! Thanks Kimberly! I'd love to see the Da Vinci line of watercolors tested for lightfastness since most of my paints come from Da Vinci
Thank you for this!
thank you. very helpful
Thank you, Kimberly! 🤗🧡❤
Thank you very much
Can two light-fast pigments mixed together become fugitive? I'm planning on making a split primaries palette and wanted to know if I'd have any issues with the colors after they're mixed. I've never seen anyone ask nor answer this question.
Not usually. I've never seen two lightfast pigments become fugitive when mixed with other pigments. There are sometimes chemical interactions between colors or ingredients though. Like Malachite and honey based binder will start to turn yellow-brown when mixed together while typically stable individually. There may be rare interactions between certain chemicals like cadmiums or nickel azo with sulphides or mercury in some rare toxic pigments like Cinnabar / Vermilion PR106. These type of interactions are pretty rare in most common modern pigment mixtures.
Thank you so much for doing this Kimberly. Do you happen to know of a similar color in other brands to the D.S. Terre Verde? It is SO expensive in my country I would love to have other options. Anybody know here? Love to everybody here!
Massive undertaking! Thanks for the hard work. Is there a list of just the names of * through ***** rated pigments? I went to the page you list, but it's kinda confusing without a list. Am i jusy not seeing a list?
I have a written list of just the colors that fade in this post - www.patreon.com/posts/new-daniel-smith-76343593
@@KimberlyCrick thwnk you Kim- that's a huge help
I am new to painting and watercolor.
How disappointing to learn that even when buying an top shelf brand of paint, one can not trust that the paint will be lightfast!
Lightfastness should be a major consideration!
This is super helpful as always! Thanks! I have been wondering about cobalt pigments. You mentioned PG19 (I think?) as turning solid and brown in the tube. I've also read your section on the website about Cobalt violet deep PV14 reacting weirdly to environmental factors. Do you think Cobalt green PG50 or their Cobalt Violet PV49 would experience either of these issues as well?
I am really hopeful about PV49 as a PV14 alternative, since Cobalt Violet has been so strange. I'm testing multiple types and will definitely make a video about it in the future. I have never seen any issues at all with PG50 including all of the green and teal variants - they seem stable. Thankfully, they are some of my favorites! I think Daniel Smith's PG19 might be acting a bit like Roman Szmal's malachite, having some acidic chemical reaction with the binder causing yellowing. Luckily that seems to be a rare thing.
Ooh that's very exciting news! I've separated my PV14 from my lightfast/archival pigments and was also hopeful for PV49! It's an absolutely gorgeous color! And different than Sennelier's Cobalt Violet Deep Hue (which is also super lovely but not as pink) I'm thrilled to learn my green PG50 is good to use!
very helpful.
Permanent alizarine crimson, rhodonite, and opera are all in a row on my palette. That is now the dunce corner! I knew Mayan blue genuine wasn't the most light-fast, but it's worse than I imagined. I'm kind of heart broken over that one. I would love to see Windsor Newton professional, thank you for your work.
Mayan Blue was very sad. The “dunce corner” made me laugh! I have posted the results for Winsor and Newton’s 1 year lf test at kimcrick.com if you’re curious about which colors fade. The really shocking one from them was cadmium free orange rated LFI but fading as bad as opera LFIV!
@@KimberlyCrick I will check out your results right away! I never bought any of the cadmium free colors, it annoyed me that they won't reveal the pigments, yet made them all series 4. Again, thank you for all your work. I'm glad I could give you a laugh, you made me laugh about the Prussian blue 💙.
Thank you so much for sharing your results. What brand of paper do you use for your test swatches?
I use Arches (140# cotton cold press) for all of my swatch cards and lightfast test strips.
How much time did it take for you to collect all this paint? Your collection is very impressive. Thanks for the video. Also please do a white nights lightfastness report next :)
I’ve been painting for about 10 years, there’s paint e v e r y w h e r e lol. White nights old lf report is in my 36 se/yarka st petesberg video. A new test has only recently started since white nights just got rid of a ton of fugitive colors in 2020, removing a lot of problem pigments from their catalog. I will be doing a spotlight on PO64 fading next, white nights orange and peach though - it’s really bad!
@@KimberlyCrick Great, that's a brand I am considering upgrading to. I am now using their Sonnet student grade set. That is pretty good, but has quite some fugitive paints in it (which is not a big deal, considering the price and overall quality of that set).
It’s been a while Daniel Smith has been claiming their watercolor to be vegan at least from 2017. That would mean there’s no ox-gall, animal glycerine neither honey. This is for elders that have been painting with DS watercolors for a long time. Have you perceived any difference regarding this watercolor performance from the old tubes to the new tubes?
What happened with the rhodonite? I notice it listed but not in the strip, is it the darkening in the pan or did it fade?
Close up images for both desaturation and fading of rhodonite can be found on the written review at www.kimcrick.com/pages/daniel-smith-watercolor-lightfast-testing-reviews-demo-painting-videos
@@KimberlyCrick Thank you. I just took a look. This makes me sad, but i appreciate knowing.