Rat Rod Wagon HAULS | Built Briggs & Stratton Flathead
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- Опубліковано 2 гру 2018
- We waited to shoot this video until we had a new set of piston rings for our high performance Briggs and Stratton 5 horsepower flathead engine to fix the smoking. When we took the piston out, we discovered that it had a racing piston, and our rings wouldn't work! So we honed out the cylinder, cleaning the rust pitting out, reassembled the engine, and installed it on the rat rod wagon. Even though it smokes a lot, it's actually really fast!
Thanks for Watching!
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I guess I'm like allot of "Old Dudes" that watch. Yes I'm close(r) to 60 years old than I am to 50. I like Ike also have a soft part in my heart when it comes to old "B&S's". It's what we grew up with. It's what we used on just about every conceivable contraption we could come up with or actually build. To allot of us "Ol' Timers", a 5HP B&S is something akin to a Chevy 350 CID. Easily obtainable, fairly cheap, easy to work on and repair, there's all kinds of alterations you can do to one so the outcome is "something near" to what you wanted.
Yes Sir, you can go "new school" and get just about what you want right off the shelf, but (to me) there's nothing like spending a week-end out under the garage awning, getting grease under your nails, sweat in your eyes, skint knuckles, and the satisfaction of hearing "your creation" pop to life on the third or fourth pull.
Love and enjoy the videos Guys!!! Keep up the good work!!!
I'm 59, I'll be 60 on 9 Juan Juan....😁 I enjoy the heck out of working on everything...
I'm 68 and couldn't agree more. I still enjoy tinkering and building.
My dad's old lawnmower had a Briggs and smoked like that. He used to say he was smoking the mosquitos out lol.
😂😂😂😂 Dad jokes
That’s great never would have a bug problem for sure
Actually he was
Longer skirt keeps the Piston from rocking in the cylinder. Allows for tighter clearances and higher rpms. Being able to run a tighter clearance means the extra ring is no longer a necessity. Also having the wrist pin closer to the rings creates a more even force on the Piston as it's moving up and down by applying the force closer to where the Piston comes in contact with the cylinder wall. Having it lower would push the skirt into the cylinder wall during combustion causing excess friction and loss of rotational momentum, ie loss of power.
I imagine a longer rod would also help with rev ability as well since it would make it a better rod/stroke length ratio
@@CallumTapper shorter rod, reduces (can't remember technical name) the flexibility of the rod and general stresses on the crank and wrist pin by reducing the mass as well.
To be fair a shorter rod also increases friction since the angle it has to take is much greater. Realistically this means that if you're running weak components a short rod will be better but under ideal conditions with better components a longer rod does perform much better at high rpm, just don't bannana your rod.
C.T. …………...in auto apps longer rod helps flatten out the torque curve, and helps with cylinder leverage filling @@CallumTapper
@@dannycalley7777 Also, the longer rod means slower acceleration/deceleration stresses on the whole reciprocating mass, giving it more revability and power.
Well wouldn’t add more oil would it? Wonder why
More Briggs! 👍Who cares about practicality, a Predator will never be even half as cool as an old school flathead :)
Hollaendaren same
Yes
Yes and no
10000000% agree. Something different about an old half wore flathead
I have a shelf full of them.
The reduced compression height of the piston (the wrist pin being up higher) allows for the longer rod which in turn reduces rod angularity improving the engines ability to not fly into a million pieces at higher rpms. This is also why most stroker motors don't spin up as fast as engines with shorter strokes. The longer stroke with the same length rod increases rod angularity. Essentially more rod angularity will reduce the engines ability to spin at high rpms but can net you some low end torque. Less rod angularity will lose you some low end torque, but allow the engine to spin to higher rpms allowing it to make more horse power.
Reduced compression.........means turbo it :P
It doesn’t have reduced compression. If anything it has the same or more.
Issac, it is nice to see that someone else watching actually understands engine performance!👍
Love high compression engines and old engines. I wanna do something like this too. I learn a lot from this:) even tho I'm a car mechanic :)
Also, the lack of one compression ring reduces the drag of the piston thus decreasing internal friction. The downside is the smoking. The lack of one compression ring allows more blowby into the crankcase which increases the pressure inside the engine. This is why the oil is being pumped past the oil ring. Perhaps a better crankcase venting system would relieve some of the pressure and reduce the smoking? Worth a try.
yupyup! less drag with 1 compression ring too BUT, put a little wear on the piston and cylinder, smokes like a pig!
It's absolutely amazing to listen to someone who knows his Ka Ka. I built a go cart when I was
13, that was in 1953 Good for you guys..Looks like a blast. Brought back memories. Thanks
I thoroughly enjoyed that, but a rat rod needs a rat engine, great video , thanks guys,
Fuck yeah mustie1 on c&c
needs an kohler flathead k582s, lmao
I agree, love your stuff.
Mustie1 Idk man, think they may need a few more shoehorns to fit a bb chevy into that lil thing lol.
My favourite channel commented how they love my other favourite channel, that made my day 👍🏼
I'd like to see a Predator last 40 years. Regardless, that thing sounds good!
I agree with ike. Ol briggs have a soft spot. And yes the parts are alot harder to come buy. But dang they perform. Worn out rings and a bad valve guide and still picked up 5mph and 2 sec.
My first engine was a Brigs and Stratton 5 hp it ran fine. You just can NOT let them sit
I am 53 & when I was a kid all we had was Briggs & sometimes the odd Tecumsay , had a 3 horse briggs on my choppered mini bike , & loved it . I love Briggs but a brand new predator works too .
First off.. you guys are awesome. .. now about the smoking piston. I had a similar issue with my car pistons. They were aftermarket and the oil ring drain holes were not enough for my high reving engine. They only had 3 holes (6 total) on ech side of the piston. The stock had 5 holes (10 total) on each side. I drilled 4 more holes on the piston, being careful not to damage where the oil rings sit, this allowed the oil to drain back into the block easier. Since then my engine does not smoke, oil last longer and is less contaminated. Be careful not to hit the pin that holds the piston to the rod. You will have to drill at an angle. Good luck gentlemen.
13:49 "that you'll never be able to find parts for..."
From my rather limited experience, the majority of parts from these old flatheads are still manufactured by _B&S._ Not only that, but these engines were produced in such large numbers that it's really easy to find a "spares engine" for sale on the local classifieds.
There is quite a lot of aftermarket support as well (ARC makes a ton of parts for 5hp Briggs engines), and UA-cam is awash with people doing all sorts of crazy stuff with old Briggs engines.
Just my opinion...
that's a race piston and rod. with possibly some light overbore. NOT stock.
I'm pretty sure John was referring to stock engines, or at least B&S in general.
Briggs 5 horse flat heads were the predator of there day. And parts are easy to find. The problem they do have is that the compression realise is a extra lobe on the cam shaft so when they run they loose compression and the only or the proper way to get around the problem is to grind down that extra lobe.
Briggs still produces the flat head and even produces and supports their racing line of engines so yeah you can get parts all day long.
Brodie Bennett your right I only work with flat head Briggs engines and parts for them are so easy to find just look for the engine model number go to Google and look up preformance parts for the engine code ....
Longer rod = more torque
1 compression ring, should be a gas/pressure ring) = less friction
When you can get 15+ hp from a 5hp briggs I'm good we raced carts & built briggs with top straps on the motors to keep the heads on them they made massive hp with a few custom tweaks for internal piston weight & flywheel timing advancement etc !!
As I understand it, the longer rod causes the piston to “dwell” at TDC longer as it changes directions in its travel. It causes cylinder pressure to get higher. So good for more power. Thing to look out for though is with higher pressure you have more heat. So engines with a longer rod could me more prone to knock on cheap gas. You should be fine with that optima fuel. Hope this helps.
I grew up doing exactly what you guys are doing. I love this channel, it reminds me of all the fun I used to have. You've rekindled the flame. I'm gathering old busted up tillers and snow blowers and once the summers here I'll be building a cart.
I'd like to see a vertical shaft engine cart build. I'd like to see how y'all setup the gearing.
Love the smoke! It's awesome and adds to the rattyness of the cart. The rat rod wagon brought me to your channel and has remained my favorite project.
Same!
I think that is what brought me to this channel
Great job, guys, and lots of fun. The nice thing about old engines like that is you can find them for free...or close to it...if you keep your eyes open and are willing to elbow grease it back to life like you all did. My favorite part of this build is the front-engine-rear-drive configuration you used. It's effective and unique...as karts go anyway.
At 11:15 - Big 'ol Ike on that tiny kart flying down the road trailing a cloud of smoke - priceless!
Ike, I have an affinity for Briggs and Stratton. In the late 70's I had a Clinton 2.5 Hp I rebuilt at age 9. Cool little motor made for gokarts.
Sorry John I'm with Ike on the 5hp Briggs, it's the engine that started it all for us when we were younger. But agree with you on the predator engine if your just starting out with no mechanical knowledge etc. Build a dual Briggs rat rod with a wheel Barrow tub or something. Keep em coming guys!
Scott Govey Make it wheelie and call it the Wheelie-Barrow 😎
Fully build Briggs, just to see. Y’all went this far might as well. I’m old school too. It be like a tribute to what started it all. Thanks guys
I love the old Briggs. Gotta give respect to them because from my childhood in the 80's it brought so much fun to us all and it was about the only performance era engines we had at the time. So me id love to see more of them being brought back to life and keeping the good time rolling like the old days
Alright, jigs up. That's not Ike. Ike doesn't have a beard, but his twin brother does. You're not fooling me!
Yeah, he can't grow a beard so quick
Yall do know these videos are probably weeks old
@@2000stang5 Don't bring your logic here!
When he put a helmet on to drive and complained about the dirt Ike is always elbow deep in grease.
Illuminati confirmed
just imagine how much faster itll be when it has new rings and you can send it with all the compression
I love that y'all took it old school. I'm literally in the process of building a Briggs for my kids kart. Freaking awesome!
I agree with the look Issac is giving you John, you cant go wrong with a old school flathead briggs. You can beat the snot out of them and they just keep running plus they are extremely easy to work on.
i grew up with briggs motors. forget the chineseium. i used to beat the sh!t out of them and they just kept going. soft spot here for old school.
Build another rat rod using a wheelbarrow tub using a old b&s 5HP.
I want to do that but with a k301 koler 12 horse engine.
DirtRiderX sauer sounds even more miserable to ride than the wagon
Hey if you wipeout in a wheelbarrow,atleast it will be a good dump.
I said the same thing b4 reading comments...
my first project was an 8 hp briggs and i had no problems it had broken bolts, broken govener, valve job needed , bought new carb and it runs like a dream
The smoke balling up behind Ike’s back in his draft as he was screaming down the road is a knee slapper.
I'm with Ike on the Briggs. I won't claim to have any knowledge of go karts but at least on lawn mowers they are pretty reliable, and very fun to work on.
Perfect for summer...:) Three laps around the C&C Grand Prix.. No mosquitoes for days!!!!
I have rebuilt numerous jet ski and outboard engines and I had good luck with Wysco piston sets!
I've gotten 3 Briggs and Stratton flathead engines for free, that's how easy they are to come by. One of them is on my custom homemade minibike, you can't go wrong with an old Briggs. Also, they are a little easier to fix than any new overhead valve engine and parts are still super easy to find, these engines are where I've learned my basic mechanic skills.
The older Briggs 5 hp flatheads will outlast the cheap Predator engines. They last forever!
Not really
Not the cheap Briggs that don't have an iron liner...they last 200 hrs tops. Also, flatheads run hot and go through valves like crazy. Older doesn't always equal better.
totally disagree with you flat heads are far better then newer motors if you can get 35 hp out of a 5 hp flat head I will take it all fucken day long!!!@@T..C..M
I have a 5 hp briggs from 96.
The only problems have stemmed from me not replacing gaskets. And an incorrect coil gap (found out when it stalled and had no spark)
Although it doesn't have a cast iron liner it still is amazing
@@mr.stonerUDX714 How do I get 35hp out of my 5hp?
I absolutely love your videos, I have learned a metric shit ton of information/tips/ideas etc, please keep them coming. You guys should have a tv show. My only complaint? Watching you guys turn laps on these unsuspended rigs makes MY back hurt! I have literally found myself bracing for bumps and grimacing when you hit them ! Great stuff
Glen Piro Nice!!
the longer skirt is to help the piston from wobbling to much and some times the rings width is smaller and the ring gap can be bigger or smaller.
happy to help and teach you about that.
BTW I am 15 hahah good luck guys.
Just bought my first mini bike frame, thanks for all the advice for newbies.
Been waiting long time to see a flat head build love it
The hone you used is for brake parts. The longer stone in a piston cylinder hone guide it holding it true to the bore, your cylinder is no longer straight. More than likely egg shaped. It will need a new sleeve. Valve guides are also in the same condition. The piston is a forged piston
Made for high rev's and compression. Able to withstand hotter burning fuels. You need a new block.
or just new valve guides? and a re re hone with a proper tool?
Roger yup, time for a block and see what it'll really do.
@@Hermiwalle
The bore is trash, passing that amount of oil the cylinder is gone
@@Hermiwalle
Briggs & Stratton does not use replaceable valve guides. The amount of Machining that it would take to install them, it's not worth the hassle.
Roger Marshall: oh ok. But I also imagine that a new 2 bearing block would be kinda rare no?
Awsome vid...theese are the kinds of things that we miss out on when we get caught up and put the wholesome life aside. This is a great way to slow down...think of the 8mportant things in life and enjoy...at leat for the ones like me that love to hold a wrench...God bless every one and thanks for the vid.👍
I think when you find an old flathead, it throws you right into tinkering and getting to know the mechanics of an engine (for beginners) and you can find something that runs for 50 bucks if need be. I love the front engine, live axle, drive shaft builds. I think another "rod" build with a 420cc, and maybe some sheet metal work could be very very cool
Between the smoke when they started it outside you can see flames
More rat rod builds! The wagon is what brought me to your channel, would love to see another rat type build! Old school!!!
differences in a standard, and racing piston, weight, alloy type, change in compression, ring design.strength these are the basics. The longer rod you have is to increase the time the piston dwells at TDC (helps with low and mid range power). The single ring lowers the drag on the pistons travel.
That was a methanol motor it's the same I use to run back in my racing go cart days I still have mine still together in my dad's shop that we use to race back when I was 15-16 years old an I'll be 34 tomorrow love y'alls channel good luck guys keep up the great work
Great show guys but yea do more rat rod shows really love the strange builds the wagon was awesome and i love briggs you gotta give them props they have been around for awhile love them
I really wish you guys would pay more attention to proper ackerman. Almost all your builds have the ackerman backwards which is why they don't like turning. the inside tire should have more angle than the outside tire going through a corner.
I liked the build man. Love the old flat heads. PLEASE do more. High performance brigs vs 212
Hey guys, when youre doing a hone, slowest speed on drill and up and down as fast as you can go. The idea is to make crosshatching on the bore to retain the oil. As for the racing piston, idea is less friction and less reciprocating weight to gain the higher rpms. The small amount of compression lost by not ahing a second compression ring is more than made up for in the higher rpms. The skirt shape and design is to support this. Great video. I must say.. id love to see the ducati engine on the drag rail tho.. ... .. cheers, Levi
i think a great name for this wagon would be ' Lil Smokey"
I’ve been watching and hope you guys bring the lay down go kart back when yo bought the three race karts
Older Briggs are way better then today’s engines by a long shot there way more durable then anything built today I’m a Briggs fan by heart they have never let me down. One cold winter I went to start up my tractor that had an 1976 8hp briggs been sitting for 2 weeks or so and I kid you not I took two pulls and it fired right up them engines I have a lotta faith in them.
For many years Briggs was the primary engine in small power lawn equipment, and it still is a big brand in that business, although the new OHV engines are a different thing from the old flatheads. If I was doing a rat rod with a red wagon base like that I think I would extend it so you aren't cramped up so much, a bit more leg room would be nice. I had one of those wagons when I was a kid in the 50's.
Wanna see it fixed❤️❤️❤️ I'm and older guy so 5 horse brigs is in my heart for sure
I like the old school cool . Like the videos. Keep up the good work fella's.
I grew up with those old Briggs & old Tecumseh flat heads. They seem to make far more torque than the Chinee ohv motors of today. That ones already got the dual valve spring setup so the valves won’t constantly be floating once you hit 4500 rpm or so. As for the setup...the piston is lighter, longer rod likely means the builder is likely running a 3 1/2 crank for a shorter stroke coupled with a high lift, longer duration cam. Mic the cylinder to find out if and how much she’s overbored, get a set of rings if possible or a piston & rings...replace valve guides & seals. Add some timing with an offset flywheel key, dump some 112 in her & let her eat. Ya may also want to run a tighter clutch spring to get the r’s up before she locks.
Boy, I'm glad you guys finally did something about the mosquito problem, a good fogging can do miracles..........In December no less!
the longer rod reduces the angle at which it thrusts the crank pin, a reduction in side loading and fatigue life.
When I seen the thumbnail, I thought yea definitely ripping with that smoke trail.
I hate to say this Jon but that lil red flat top is what started all the fuss. Everyone was always trying to beat a Briggs and couldn’t. The old Honda’s made a good showing but it’s that name that made him strong!
Most oils today have detergent in it and if the motor inside was dirty from previous build up it will clean it and cause it to turn dark. Also once oil heats up especially on a air cooled engine it can burn it black quickly or if the rings are it can cause that also.
Beard is looking on point Ike.
My friend and I race open wheel mod dirt track car we run alcohol and boy does that stuff ruin anything that's not steel we have a shut off at the tank and have to let the engine run its self out of fuel. Then we fill the vent tube right away with pump gas or else you will have to rebuild the carb and fuel pump from sitting even overnight or 2 days. Also, the skirting on racing pistons are typically taller for piston slap which can crack them eventually it keeps the piston more straight up and down in the bore since shit is not built like it used to be you pull apart a brand new bred and butter car's engine the skirting is super short for MPGS and weight savings on the rotating assembly. Diesel engines have much much taller piston skirting for higher compression after all they all knock naturally. If you ask a regular engine to push more power for extended periods of time you will find with a micrometer that the cylinder walls are egged chopped more than normal
mopartshemi I race a mod too!
Absolute correct Sir. You know it.
It does foul up the engine & rebuild more often because of aluminium , flush out with gas or it will eat it up .
Maybe with alcohol it might not smoke as bad uper cylinder lube ?
The Briggs flat head is a great engine. Modified Briggs and Stratton flatheads are used in almost all oval track go karts and you can make those engines rip. There’s also still a lots of brand new parts you can buy for it online
Yes a soft spot for Briggs myself. Had minibikes back in the 70s. Gotgarts dirtbikes. But their was something more fun about riding a minibike and driving a gocart thata low to the grown. Nice vide guys. I watch u and UA-cam more the tv.
Thanks guys, it's so much more Rat Rod now.
I'm liking the "it'll be fine" avatar.
You can still buy racing raptor engines and the parts for them use a 4 stroke dirt bike piston and the engine is golden valves are also easily replaced with bigger ones I raced with Briggs power and moved to shifter carts .good to see you fellas love the vids
Sickest thing you guys have built/fixed besides the cross cart and that badass mustang ..
There is a L compresion ring and that helps whit getting more compresion because the L ring is higher on the piston then a normal ring so you get more compresion
Diggin the beard Ike. 👍🏻
Woohoo! That thing is a regular Cheech! Ol' Smokey would be a fitting name. Hopefully y'all can figure out a way to reduce the oil leaks and burn off but it still turned out great. Keep up the excellent work gents.
Thanks to yall im dead set my next project is getting a ole flat head moto cant tell you how much i love the sound of em
So Nice Dude🔥 Greetings from Germany
Looking at the 90 degree gearbox on this kart. Have you guys thought about using a lower end of an outboard boat motor? Not only will that provide a forward-reverse, but should also have a long input shaft instead of having to build one from several pieces.
There is a gear box just like that one that has forward and reverse
True, but they are way more expensive than a outboard bottom end that can easily be found at a scrap yard.
When you guys were testing it on the ground, I don't know about you, but I saw a few spurts of flame comin' out.
I also disagree the Briggs flathead is a handful. I picked up a yard kart off Craigslist with a 5 HP Briggs flathead, and it is wonderfully simple and there are really a LOT of parts OEM and aftermarket out there.
Thanks for a great clean show!
The Briggs & Stratton engine is like the Flat-Head Ford of go-cart engines. It has a cool factor the newer generic chicom clone engines lack. The Briggs is a perfect match for the Rat Rod Radio Flyer but I hope you can do a full repair of the motor with new rings and valves to see the full potential of this hopped up B&S.
Love the build and I hope to meat you some day
Heck yea love your videos keep up the good work
Just finished watching the rat rod build saga. Man it was good.
Cool to see a front engine go-kart. Cool to see a Radio-Flyer wagon can used for the body.
New overbore or sleeve/piston, valve guides and she'll be just fine... Predator Vs Briggs Raptor battle... How bout it?
Yep you're spot on sir.
I would love to see someone build another blockzilla briggs I haven't seen one of those in years
@@mudmowerregulators9559 blockzilla blocks are very expensive
Haha did the same drill to crank start on my motor and snapped the end of the crank right hahaha
High compression pistons (racing, "High performance" pistons) give the engine a higher compression ratio by bringing the stroke length up with a taller piston, tall enough to increase compression ratio, but not too tall to start smashing into valves, or in your case with the flat head, the cylinder head. More compression, in turn makes more power. Hope I was of education, love the videos.
Omg! I love the idea of a front engines go Kart! I would love to convert a lawn tractor, but this is way cooler!
I was curious about the drive shaft system....ya gotta have balls sitting that close to something spinning that fast..😂😂😂
I've seen videos of guys getting sucked into machines. Shit is fucked up. The motor doesn't care, it will twist your leg into spaghetti, and maybe suck your torso in too if it doesn't sever your leg off first.
Who else would like to see lke and John do a project with a predator 79cc?
Crankshaft Garage the smaller minibike they built came with this engine, they tried to build it with poor results, I have built one mildly, exhaust, and governor removed and it was still gutless and topped out at 30mph. The 212 is so much more power and torque you really only want the 97cc if you weigh under 100lbs.
for bigger guys who weigh around 200 like me should use a 5 HP Briggs or predator 212
That looks like a 4.5 inch rod. If you measure from the center of the crank bearing and center of the wrist pin bearing you can tell. Then a matching piston compression height (0.590) I believe for the 4.5 long rod, and bore size. ARC racing has a page on there blog about calculations for all that. And you can get reamers and valve guide installer tools and Briggs valve guides on Dynocams and some other sites. And as for the racing pistons compared to the stock Briggs pistons, the racing ones are forged or billet aluminum to handle the higher rpm. The stock cast Briggs pistons won’t hold up long past 8,000 rpm. And with forged and billet pistons you run a bigger piston to cylinder wall clearance, because the metal is denser and will expand more in heat compared to a cast piston. It would be cool to see you guys rebuild this engine with a new piston and rings and show installing valve guides.
I never thought that I would as a 39 year old man, think a go cart was cool. But I love that thing!
Guys , we would like to see you build a cart from scratch ! Race frame and a dirt bike engine !! Yeah !!! Or even a old two stroke triple ?? Yeah!!! how fast can you go ?? Big Balls needed for that !!
I love your videos :), your good and make me have dreams of the kart builds I want to do too, God bless all good :)
The rat rod wagon was such a neat iconic build, I feel like it’s one of the OG builds too.
The racing piston one is a hyper type metal very strong for boost or nitrous second longer skirt to help transfer heat through out the piston and prevent piston slap the reason it only has one compression ring is for less rotation friction which also helps with heat
A backrest would be a game changer. lol
This looks like a job for Lucas oil... 🛢
No no no, a job for Amsoil!
It's a 2 stroke Briggs lol
@@Garbasker no no no no a job for marvel mystery oil!!
How about Marvel Mystery Oil? A little in the crankcase, a little in the gas tank...
Maybe Lucas oil stabilizer or 50wt racing oil.
Reminds me when I tried to 'rebuild' the engine in my first car, a 1953 Morris Minor. I replaced the rings, but I didn't really know about honing - so it smoked more after I 'rebuilt' it. Going up a hill, it would lay down a smokescreen like a WWII destroyer. I wasn't clear on whether you replaced the rings - sounds like not.
Racing pistons typically are higher compression, more sturdy in the cylinder as the skirt design makes them less likely to wobble side to side, and they often are made either by being forged or CNC'ed instead of being cast as well as they could be a special alloy that makes them stronger and able to handle higher combustion chamber temps.