How to use legacy FireWire and Thunderbolt devices on new PCs with Thunderbolt 4
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- In this video I talk about the changes Intel made to their newer processors and the options you have to use legacy FireWire devices like a miniDV or HDV camcorder to capture the video. I also offer alternatives if your computer is no longer compatible. Below are time stamps and links to the hardware and software you'll need.
Time Stamps:
0:00 - Intro
0:28 - TL;DR - High Level Explanation
0:44 - How to find what gen processor you have
0:53 - Differences between Thunderbolt, USB, and FireWire
1:42 - 9th Gen or older
1:52 - Adapters you'll need
2:06 - 10th and 11th Gen
2:50 - 12th Gen
4:04 - Other options
6:38 - Wrap up
7:06 - End
For PC's with previous gen processors, please watch these videos:
Windows 10: • How to connect FireWir...
Windows 11: • How to capture DV & HD...
For Mac's: • How to connect FireWir...
Newer Mac's: • How to troubleshoot Th...
Links to the items mentioned in the video:
Apple Thunderbolt 3 and 4 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 1 and 2 Adapter:
amzn.to/3Y9VAaW
Apple Thunderbolt 1 and 2 to FireWire 800 adapter: (if unavailable, watch • How to use FireWire WI... for more info)
amzn.to/3EKCLEc
StarTech Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter
amzn.to/3ZxYNlR
FireWire 800 to 400 mini plug cable:
amzn.to/3J4W5yS
Dell TB16 (K16A) Thunderbolt 3 Dock
amzn.to/3nBxsBC
FireWire 400 to 800 cable:
amzn.to/41Co00g
FireWire 400 to 800 adapter:
amzn.to/41C8wJK
FireWire 400 mini to 400 mini cable:
amzn.to/3Zt4y4e
FireWire 400 mini to 400 full size adapter:
amzn.to/3YcM5b9
Have a desktop with a PCI/PCIe card slot, or a laptop with a ExpressCard/PCMCIA card slot:
amzn.to/3BAf5A5
Laptops with Thunderbolt/FireWire:
amzn.to/3dBGXfo
Other items I recommend:
www.amazon.com/shop/scottschramm
(note the links above are affiliate links which helps support my channel. Your price stays the same but a small commission may come back to me if you decide to purchase anything using my links. It's a win-win for everyone!)
Software Mentioned:
WinDV: www.videohelp.com/software/WinDV
HDV Split: www.videohelp.com/software/HD...
K-Lite Codec Pack Basic: codecguide.com/download_k-lit...
Handbreak: handbrake.fr/
Other videos that may help you:
How to connect a FireWire Audio Interface to a Mac or PC with Thunderbolt 3/USB-C
• How to connect a FireW...
How to connect FireWire devices into new Mac's with Thunderbolt 3/USB-C
• How to connect FireWir...
How to connect FireWire devices to a new M1 Mac with Apple Silicon
• How to connect FireWir...
Troubleshooting
If you are having issues with your PC connecting to the device, there are a few things you can try:
1. Ensure your PC has a Thunderbolt port (not just a USB-C/charging port). Visit the support page of your computer (support.dell.com, support.lenovo.com, etc) and verify that your drivers are up to date. Sometimes the Thunderbolt driver is separate and needs to be installed manually. Also check that your BIOS is up to date. If you're getting blue screens when you plug in, this is the solution.
2. Check the settings in your BIOS as there may be a setting in there to allow data over the Thunderbolt port. Here is an example link that shows the settings: www.dell.com/support/article/... There is also usually an app within Windows called the "Thunderbolt(TM) Software " and make sure it is set to "Always Allow" like this: www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-...
3. If your camcorder still does not communicate, then you may need to install a driver, although this is extremely rare. Here is a good webpage that may help you troubleshoot FireWire specific drivers: www.studio1productions.com/Ar... Additionally if you installed a special FireWire driver you may want to uninstall it and try the built in Windows driver as that may be all you need. You can also try installing a legacy FireWire driver by following these directions: www.startech.com/en-us/faq/fi...
4. Here is a good guide from Sony which has a few other troubleshooting steps: www.sony.co.uk/electronics/su... - Наука та технологія
In case you missed the video description, expand this comment to find the links to all of the hardware and software I referenced in this video.
*Links to the items mentioned in the video:*
Apple Thunderbolt 3 and 4 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 1 and 2 Adapter: amzn.to/3Y9VAaW
Apple Thunderbolt 1 and 2 to FireWire 800 adapter: amzn.to/3EKCLEc
StarTech Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter: amzn.to/3ZxYNlR
FireWire 800 to 400 mini plug cable: amzn.to/3J4W5yS
Dell TB16 (K16A) Thunderbolt 3 Dock: amzn.to/3nBxsBC
FireWire 400 to 800 cable: amzn.to/41Co00g
FireWire 400 to 800 adapter: amzn.to/41C8wJK
FireWire 400 mini to 400 mini cable: amzn.to/3Zt4y4e
FireWire 400 mini to 400 full size adapter: amzn.to/3YcM5b9
Have a desktop with a PCI/PCIe card slot, or a laptop with a ExpressCard/PCMCIA card slot: amzn.to/3BAf5A5
Laptops with Thunderbolt/FireWire: amzn.to/3dBGXfo
Other items I recommend: www.amazon.com/shop/scottschramm
(note the links above are affiliate links which helps support my channel. Your price stays the same but a small commission may come back to me if you decide to purchase anything using my links. It's a win-win for everyone!)
*Software Mentioned:*
WinDV: www.videohelp.com/software/WinDV
HDV Split: www.videohelp.com/software/HDVSplit
K-Lite Codec Pack Basic: codecguide.com/download_k-lite_codec_pack_basic.htm
Handbreak: handbrake.fr/
*Other videos that may help you:*
For PC's with previous gen processors, please watch these videos:
Windows 10: ua-cam.com/video/GASIuX1mqwE/v-deo.html
Windows 11: ua-cam.com/video/yT0oDYbqwwk/v-deo.html
For Mac's: ua-cam.com/video/x5ISyI3VcWo/v-deo.html
How to connect a FireWire Audio Interface to a Mac or PC with Thunderbolt 3/USB-C: ua-cam.com/video/0EhzlqH9fMo/v-deo.html
How to connect FireWire devices into new Mac's with Thunderbolt 3/USB-C: ua-cam.com/video/UW2Bbn_OjNA/v-deo.html
How to connect FireWire devices to a new M1 Mac with Apple Silicon: ua-cam.com/video/x5ISyI3VcWo/v-deo.html
*Troubleshooting*
If you are having issues with your PC connecting to the device, there are a few things you can try:
1. Ensure your PC has a Thunderbolt port (not just a USB-C/charging port). Visit the support page of your computer (support.dell.com, support.lenovo.com, etc) and verify that your drivers are up to date. Sometimes the Thunderbolt driver is separate and needs to be installed manually. Also check that your BIOS is up to date. If you're getting blue screens when you plug in, this is the solution.
2. Check the settings in your BIOS as there may be a setting in there to allow data over the Thunderbolt port. Here is an example link that shows the settings: www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln305418/restructuring-of-usb-and-thunderbolt-settings-on-new-bios-version?lang=en There is also usually an app within Windows called the "Thunderbolt(TM) Software " and make sure it is set to "Always Allow" like this: www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-3-devices-in-windows-10-platform/
3. If your camcorder still does not communicate, then you may need to install a driver, although this is extremely rare. Here is a good webpage that may help you troubleshoot FireWire specific drivers: www.studio1productions.com/Articles/Firewire-1.htm Additionally if you installed a special FireWire driver you may want to uninstall it and try the built in Windows driver as that may be all you need. You can also try installing a legacy FireWire driver by following these directions: www.startech.com/en-us/faq/firewire-cards-windows-legacy-driver-swap
4. Here is a good guide from Sony which has a few other troubleshooting steps: www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/camcorders-tape-camcorders/dcr-hc44e/articles/00235677
Thank you for this helpful video! However I think the Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter is discontinued by Apple. Do you have any suggestions for alternatives other than Apple?
@@c.c.h2348 There are no other ones that work. Only the Apple one. Your best bet is to find one on eBay
I find this guy's voice really calming
As you are aware Scott, you have been helping me to get my Sony TRV17 to transfer mini-tapes to either of my two new windows PC's. You informed me several days ago that my home- built ASUS MB Desktop with 12th Gen i7 was not going to work, now I know why after seeing this EXCELLENT video, GREAT WORK!!!! Then, you had me turn my attention to the DELL Laptop G7700 running windows 11 using a 10th Gen i7 processor. I still have a black screen using WinDV, but after watching this latest video, hope springs eternal.
You must be a video editor as well. I am blown away at how simple and easy it is to follow your videos. The animations, gifs, fade in and fade out etc etc... Are great !!
Thanks!
You are great researcher Scott . Thank you for the clarification. When it comes to me I have screwed and need change devices.
It really sucks to have to go through this much work to get some old videos once again, I am working on this process myself and whew. It's time consuming, money consuming, and just hard for people with no background knowledge to tech. But alas you are a major help!
It's easier to just buy an older Macbook or PC laptop with firewire builtin, it can be much cheaper anyway.
@@DoubleMonoLR I for sure agree, I ended up getting a chipcard for my PC and importing it that way cause it was much easier
I can't tell you how many hours of my life you have saved with your videos! Thank you for such clear and concise explanations and walk throughs with links! I'm determined to get this to work and you're the only way it was going to be possible haha Thank you!
Hi, it's just that the TB4 system was replaced by the older TB3 in the dock, that's smart - I'll give it a try. TB3 is strictly needed for this connection, otherwise it simply doesn't work (I have 11th gen Intel with TB4 without success). Thanks a lot for your research!! Saved hours of precious time... Mike👍
Tiger Lake 11th gen, Win 10 ver 21H2, TB4 + through dock with TB3 - the scheme is the same as in the video - unfortunately it doesn't work for me! :-( Most likely, the system does not support the older (win 8) wirefire driver, or the chip on the motherboard does not support IEEE 1394 (it does not appear in the device manager). Furthermore, it is probably not worth investigating other options on Thunderbolt 4 + 11.th Intel processor, just use the route via DV-AV with a loss of quality. BUT: IEEE1394b - IEEE1394a + apple wire-TB2 + apple TB2-TB3 design works reliably on older (5 yrs) nb with Win 10 ver 21H2, but with "TB 3" only connection. Here you will see both IEEE in device manager and mini dv camera driver - by itself - without adding a driver. WinDV.mourek.cz 👍and (maybe) HDsplit should work. Confirmed.
@@elzamando am about to give it a try, your notes are appreciated. To be tested on a refurb 11th gen yoga. High hopes.
Ex-tre-me-ly helpful, thank you very, very much.
Thank you so much. id seen your last video, bought all the adapters from apple and then when they didn't work I was so annoyed. I couldn't find anyone who knew what was going on. I have a Dell xps with Thunderbolt 4 so it's a shame I am going to have to buy even more to get this working but it has saved a current film project I am working on. Cannot thank you enough.
My dock arrived and I still cant seem to connect my pc to the camera. The camera picks up the firewire conenction but my computer does not. any ideas?
Curious which gen Intel processor you have. Also what dock did you purchase?
Wow. Talking about bad timing for me. I saw your original video (I didn't realize you had updated videos until now so thank you so much for that) and the method was not working and then I realize this video indicates the problem. Your original method would have worked on my previous laptop like a charm I'm sure but it died so I had to get a new one and it's 13th Gen. I'm in the business of converting people's media to a modern format but the reason I needed your method to work on the current laptop is I have specific client that wants me to convert her professional tapes to FFV1 MKV. After much research, I discovered I might need a more up to date software that my other working much older laptop cannot handle but this morning I read that VirtualDub2 captures directly to FFV1 MKV so hopefully I can capture the video on those laptops. I just hope they can handle the data transfer speed. I'm running out of options. Again, thank you immensely for your videos.
thank you for your videos. I've spent all today trying to follow the various guides with no luck. I've bought the official cables from Amazon, and linked them together to the last best Sony DV camera they made.
my set up: - DELL XPS 11th GEN Windows,
- Sony TRV50E DV in/out with the 3 Cables going into the...
- Dell WD19 TBS Thunderbolt dock
- Downloaded both WinDv 123 (2003) and the K-lite codec Pack 17.6.6 Basic (both installed)
When I plug in the camera, 'DV IN' pops up and is displayed on the Camcorders LCD display screen (as this also does when exporting onto my old VIsta setup, strange it says 'DV IN', but hey it exports fine on Vista)
The good thing is my Sony camcorder detects the DV cable from the Dell thunderbolt Dock! yey, however when I open WinDV it does not detect the DV camera, (I tried the same set up via 1394 cable on my old WIndows vista machine and that works fine, so have a comparison)
Any ideas how to trouble shoot from here?
I can't see any information in the device manager related to the Camera,
So I'm kind of out of ideas.
Is there any other DV capture software available to test. I notice WinDV wa last updated 20 years ago, so I guess may be the problem, I also tried running that software by opening its 'properties' and changing the 'compatibility mode' to Windows 98 then Vista, but no luck. Win DV just does not detect the camera.
thak you in advance if you can help
ps: Your probably wondering why i'm not using my old Sony Viao, which was the direction I was eventually giving into, but just as I set it all up the official Sony laptop power adaptor burnt out and lost power 5 mins in on my first attempt to import /capture a clip! I guess it was the first time I'd turned it on in 10 years, and I think WinDV pushed it's old capabilities!
It's odd that the camcorder detects the connection but your PC doesn't seem to. WinDV is old, but its tried and true. You can try ScenalyzerLive, AMCap, STOIK-Capturer. All of those are discontinued and may be difficult finding downloads for them. I've never used them, but have heard from a few people that have tried one of those and had better luck.
@@ScottSchramm thank you for taking the time to reply, yes its very strange.. I'll check those other capture packages you mention and let you know the outcome. thank you
After spending quite some time trying to get a workaround, I ultimately ended up ditching the laptop/thunderbolt attempts, and moved over to my desktop set up. Reasons: after more research I found others reporting the same issues I was getting but it seems it may be a Dell problem along with newer Inspiron chips from 11 onwards. My desktop was still Windows 11 v8, so I purchased a firewire Startech PCIE card, and fitted that. Once I could use that firewire cable the Codec link and WinDV links you provided set it all up fantastic, as then as of last night I could start transfering my tapes. Thank you so much for the guides, they are really good, and cover so many options for narrowing down such issues.
At some point in the future I'll purchase an laptop with Thunderbolt 3, and give it another go, as its good to be portable.
Dear Scott, Thank you so much for taking the time to create this video! I have learn tons and your effort and work has save me so much time on research!
I have a clarification, I have a laptop with a Thunderbolt 4 (USB C), can I use the Startect Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter? Or do I specifically have to buy the Dell TB16 Thunderbolt 3 Dock?
My set up will be:
DV Camera > DV male ( 4-Pin Male IEEE-1394a) to Firewire 800 > Firewire 800 adapter to Apple Thunderbolt 1 and 2 > Thunderbolt 2 Adapter to StarTech Thunderbolt 3 > Laptop with Thunderbolt 4 (USB C)
What generation is the processor in your laptop?
This is perfect timing omg
Thanks Scott for the hard work, and insight on quality difference for the options. For Mini DV is there any difference in quality or ability to use the files going forward (say later for AI enhancing etc) between getting an older Windows PC and using WinDV, OR a getting a Mac and using I-Movie? For Mac I read i-Movie 6 or earlier might be better than later versions (something about keeping original quality when editing) and I read that the current version of i-Movie changes the 4:3 aspect ratio so maybe not good for editing? Appreciate your insights.
You shouldn’t see any difference between Mac or PC but I believe you are correct about the change between iMovie 06 which would capture in MPEG2 format vs iMovie 08 and newer which capture directly to MP4. Honestly you’re better off with MP4 as the file size is so much smaller and there is barely any loss of quality due to its higher efficiency. Any modern or future upscale software likely won’t work with MPEG2 anyways, so best to stick with MP4.
Would be useful to see a follow up video on how the adapters and camera appear in Windows device manager and Thunderbolt Control Center. Couldn't get the 11th Gen on Win 11 to recognize adapter unfortunately.
DVD is interlaced, It just happens to support 480p (576p PAL). Also there is another option is to use one of the legacy Pinnacle capture devices, some are equiped with both 6pin firewire and USB 2.0 such as the 500-USB and they can route firewire data over USB and able to control the camcorder buttons, Though Pinnacle drivers stopped in 2012 and forcing those drivers on a newer OS may not work, but it's worth a try.
You are correct. I do recall reading about the Pinnacle and I believe they are applying some compression in order to make the video work over USB. It's probably doing something similar to how USB webcams work. They are extremely rare at this point so I didn't bother mentioning it in the video.
@@ScottSchramm No, There is no compression other than the DV compression itself, but they are prone to signal drop out since USB has a limited bandwidth compared to firewire, They are available on eBay but soon will be rare since people started to know about them.
@@Capturing-Memories I haven't noticed any dropouts on a Pinnacle 710-USB, the data rate of common DV is vastly below what USB2 can handle. Consumer DV doesn't use anywhere near the full data rate of firewire.
eg: MiniDV uses about 3-4MB/s, USB2 supports up to 30MB/s. Even the professional DV codecs(DVCPRO50 etc) seem well below the maximum speed of USB2, though I don't know if these converters would have suitable ICs to convert those data streams.
These converters are probably using the same types of chips that were used in DVD recorders with a firewire input, which are designed only for DV cameras.
I've had a Pinnacle 710-USB working on Windows 11, from memory I you have to turn off "memory integrity" for the drivers to work. It doesn't seem very reliable(drivers don't always load up correctly), but I'd found the same on Windows 10, it could also depend on the specific PC.
When the drivers do load up properly, it works fine to transfer videos.
Hi scott you are doing a great job.thanks for your helpful videos.
Is it possinle to connect a surface pro 6 to TC electronic studio konnekt 48?
Only the Surface Pro 9 and newer have Thunderbolt, and those models have Intel 12th gen, so I'm afraid no Microsoft Surface devices will ever work with older gear.
Just wondering if or where the camera and/or cable setup should appear in the 'device manager', I've followed the guide, but no luck, so trying to diagnose and my first port of call is usually device manager. any help much appreciated.
Hi Scott, great video and thank you for doing all of the trouble shooting that probably would have made me go insane. Is there any update on whether intel 12th gen processors will ever get support for firewire? I am wanting to plug my Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 into my Intel I9 12th Gen Laptop but don't want to shell out money for all the adaptors if it's just not going to work.
Thanks in advance!
Sorry I'm not aware of anything new but if I do find something I'll be sure to post a new video so consider subscribing to my channel and clicking the bell for updates.
Thanks for this. My panasonic camcorder has a DV connection. I don't see from your links which cable I should get to connect to my thunderbolt 3 docking station (I have a surface studio laptop that is thankfully the 11th gen that you mentioned). I don't know what adapter to get to connect to my legacy cable? Please advise. Thank you!
You'll need the Apple Thunderbolt 3 and 4 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 1 and 2 Adapter: amzn.to/3Y9VAaW and Apple Thunderbolt 1 and 2 to FireWire 800 adapter: amzn.to/3EKCLEc and FireWire 800 to 400 mini plug cable: amzn.to/3J4W5yS Good luck!
5:45 - Does this same advice apply to those capture devices that work off HDMI? I have a DV camcorder with an HDMI output. Will it also be digital-analog-digital and lose quality as well? Or is HDMI a digital capture?
Somewhat. The HDMI capture will remain digital, but there still may be a little quality loss vs capturing the stream directly. It would depend on the quality/bitrate the capture card supports. To give a different example, lets say you wanted to save my UA-cam video. You could play it full screen while using screen recording software, or you could use a UA-cam downloader and just save the video directly. The quality will be better by downloading it directly vs screen recording it. The same kind of thing would apply here. Doing it direct with FireWire will save the original data from the tape directly vs capturing the playback of it over HDMI.
Thank you for your hard work. It sucks Intel dropped the backward compatibility. I guess it’s for security reasons, because FireWire has DMA access but Intel/Microsoft should at least provide a way to enable or disable the feature by customers.
If the 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-11800H processor has core DMA protection enabled by default, then how can we even talk about the miniDV camera having access via FireWire to the processor for recording? Or did I misunderstand? And the option with a suitable Thunderbolt 3 Dock will solve the connection problem. By the way, the cheapest option is the Lenovo ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Dock, Ebay is littered with them. But are they suitable for our needs?
@@gorjnjchno idea i have 12gen. not work connect directly. my only chance is e gpu enclosure（tb to pcie） with a firewire card. but i can not justify the cost to buy one and test😂
Hi Scott, I've got a 11thgen surface pro 8 with thunderbolt 4. I've got all the cords/adapters and I've set up all necessary software to record the minidv videos but it won't recognize the camcorder is plugged in because of the thunderbolt 4 port on my surface pro 8. As you said in the video, for 11th gen I'll need to buy a thunderbolt 3 docking station. Are there any that you can recommend to me?
I can't 100% say it will work for you since I haven't tested any Surface devices, but you can try the same dock I used in this video and was recommended by audio interface manufacture:
Dell TB16 (K16A) Thunderbolt 3 Dock amzn.to/3nBxsBC
Has anyone tried this with AMD's latest Ryzen CPUs which have Thunderbolt capability? Perhaps it is just an Intel/Thunderbolt issue: would a latest generation desktop Intel CPU work with a PCIE Firewire card?
Thanks for your work, what about new Pc with Amd cpu ? I liked to use my Liquid Mix Focusrite working on a old Dell with Firewire 400, and I am searching for a new pc to buy with 8cores/16 threads for audio pro applications, any tips ? I am sincerly a bit confused (Usb3,2 gen1, gen2, Usb4, Thunderblot 3 and 4...HELP 😀
If you’re building a new PC you can use AMD with a PCIe FireWire card and it should work. I haven’t personally verified it but some other people in the comments here have mentioned they got it working.
There is a question about Thunderbolt 3 Dock that comes up frequently in the comments. This question is also relevant for me. What to choose, for not the biggest money. While searching for a device, I came across this option: Targus USB-C Thunderbolt 3 DV4K Adapter. There are 2 Thunderbolt ports on board the device. One “honest” one is Thunderbolt 3 to Laptop. And the second “suspicious” Thunderbolt™ port (Gen 1, DP Alt Mode), but made in the USB Type-C form factor. It also has a graphic designation Thunderbolt 4, that is, with a down arrow. This may be an outdated product, as it is not on the manufacturer's website. But the price of 50 euros is eye-catching.
It would be nice if those who have already tested certain Thunderbolt 3/4 Dock models would share their experience. It would be easier for all of us.
Thanks for your great videos Scott! I have a newly built pc with Asus Prime Z790-P mb and intel i7 13700K and a Asus TB4 pcie card installed, capturing with WinDV from my old Sony DV camcorder via FW works just fine (through all the dongles :) ) and Win 11, but maybe you are only refering to laptops?
Wow, glad to hear you were able to get it working. I've only heard from one other person so far that has had success and they also had a desktop. I'm not sure what or why it would be different for a laptop, but if I figure it out and find out a solution, I will make an updated video! :)
You give me some hoppe.. I have tried to install my FireWire audio interface through pcie exress card, but doesn't work. It seems that win11 have some incompatibility with this way. Could you tell me how you connect your device/dongles? I have a z690 Asus motherboard with 12900ks processor. Finger crossed.
Are you use firewire pcie e card ?
@@rjmikael i have tried it, but doesn't work.
Thanks! this is helpful but my new laptop uses AMD Ryzen 7 7730U as processor.. I also checked and it seems it is using Thunderbolt 3/4 according to the specs.. Is there a way I could transfer this? We have a dvd player here but it seems it does not have any ports that could connect with the mentioned adapters 🥲
I don't have any AMD systems, so I'm not sure, but I've heard from others that it does work with AMD so if you're able to get the adapters please give it a try. If it doesn't work, give this video a watch: ua-cam.com/video/LXXSZdOZb-k/v-deo.html
How about if you have and AMD CPU? I have a Ryzen 7 3700X. I installed a 1394 PCI-e card and Windows seems to detect it. It even makes a notification sound when I switch on a connected camcorder, and shows up in the device manager. But all the recommended capture software doesn't detect any connected devices while playing back... 😢
I don't have any experience with AMD systems but I would think it should work and should not be affected by the issues documented in this video. The only other thing I can think of is testing your camcorder with another system, or testing a different camcorder with your main system in order to rule out if the camera is the issue.
Had issues connecting a FireWire 400 device trough FireWire 400-FireWire 400 to 800 adapter-Apple FireWire to thunderbolt 2 adapter-Apple thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter-windows 11 machine with thunderbolt 4 support (It worked on my MacBook Pro). I Have a Intel 13900k cpu and asus x690 proart motherboard. Bought a pci adapter (Product ID: PEX1394A2V2) with 2 FireWire 400 ports. Everything works now. The pci card also works with my echo express se1 that is connected to my pc with thunderbolt.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Thanks for your hard work, Scott, in spite of the bad news... 12th gen i5... If I had a desktop, the options for firewire would be diverse. I was looking at exterior thunderbolt pcie slot bays, but the price is way out there - $300-800... Have you looked into those eGPU PCIe slots? They seem a bit more reasonably priced, and possibly a good solution to throw a pcie firewire card on, though everything is exposed. Or, does the lack of support for TB1 and TB2 also mean lack of support for firewire from the processor? It looks like I was reading that windows 11 has a native 1394 driver, but if it's the processor that processes it, and not any other chips, then it looks like I'll be DOA down the line with my audio gear, as far as a laptop is concerned these days...
I was able to find one device which includes the PCIe enclosure and a FireWire card: amzn.to/3FkI0ed - but I don't think it will work in a 12th gen however I am basing this off another user who commented on my past video and mentioned trying a PCIe FireWire card directly into a desktop he built with a 12th gen intel and he said it didn't work. So you could try it and return if it doesn't work.
I am in similar situation. I have an Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 audio interface with FireWire connectionm I have tried to install my FireWire pie express, but unfortunately didn't work. I think there is no other alternative than buy a new audio interface.
@@marcelo_luzdesktop PC with pcie firewire card not working ? With 12th gen processor ??
I couldn't get the adaptor to approve on my Windows 11 laptop until I logged into an Administrator account and it approved right away. I don't mean "Run as Admininstrator" - you have to be properly logged into the Administrator account. The Administrator account is usually disabled in Windows, so you may have to enable it before you can log into it. Once the approval succeeded, you can log out of the Administrator account and log back into your Standard account and the adaptors are recognised and usable no problem. The approval should also survive reboots.
It might also be worth trying this on a 12th generation in case it helps?
I will give this a try some day. What generation of processor is your laptop and what model laptop do you have where you got it to work?
@@ScottSchramm It's older than I thought - Asus ROG Zephyrus 2018 version, 7th gen Intel processor. It was supplied with Windows 10 which I upgraded I think in 2020 to Windows 11. It was only after the Win11 upgrade that I first tried the thunderbolt adaptors for DV capture.
I tried this on my Elitebook 840 G8 ADV with an 11th gen intel, and i didn't work for me.
I assume it would not help but in a desktop PC adding a firewire card would not help I assume as it cant talk to the processor anymore? thanks in advance for the help
You can try it, some people in these comments reported success while others said it didn't work. There are too many variables to figure out what components cause the issue or not.
@@ScottSchramm true we are not the hardware manufacturer will let you know how I get on
Hi Scott,
I setup a Orpheus Firewire soundcard with:
- A Firewire 400 to 800 cable.
- A Firewire 800 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter.
- Apple Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 USB-C adaptor.
Using 11th intel PC with Thunderbolt 4 port and Windows 10. All adaptors are Apple originals.
- The Soundcard works perfect and solid.
- An issue come off when i switch off the computer. - The PC don’t connect the soundcard when i switch on the computer. I have to reconnect the adaptors to USC - C Thunderbolt 4 port.
- If i reboot the computer with the soundcard working the computer keeps the soundcard working. The issue come off only when switch off the computer.
Do you know how to fix the issue?
Thank you in advance.
Check your BIOS. There are some new settings on the newer generations and all brands will call it different but there will usually be a setting in the security sections that deal with when devices are "approved" before or after the OS is loaded. If you can't find anything then I would say unplugged and replugging sounds like a simple workaround and is better then it not working at all.
@@ScottSchramm Hi Scott. I found a half solution. I'm switching the Orpheus firewire soundcard to laptop soundcard first. Then i eject the Apple Thunderbolt adaptors from windows devices (like usb pen drives) . This avoid trouble when i switch on the computer. Thank you for your help. Regards.
What about a thunderbolt 4 to pcie docking station and pcie firewire 800 card? There are cheap Chinese egpu docks that would likely work this way.
It might work but I haven’t personally tested it. If you try it, please reply back so we know if it worked or not.
One method to make it work might be a thunderbolt to pcie box(a egpu enclosure) and a pcie ieee1394 card. But I don’t have a egpu enclosure to test with.
You are correct, that is another way however I don't think it will work as I've heard from a user with a desktop that tried installing a FireWire PCIe card directly into his PC with an Intel 12th gen and it didn't work. I haven't personally tested either way (in a Thunderbolt enclosure or directly in a desktop PC) so I can't 100% confirm it or not. The cheapest enclosure I can find is $300 so I don't think I will be testing it myself since an older PC can be bought cheaper.
@@ScottSchramm yup the high price of pcie enclouser is hard to swallow. I have an AMD X2700 desktop and pcie FireWire card it works. I don’t know the 12th Gen desktop though.
That's absolutely true. I have tried to install my pcie express FireWire with win11 and 12th gen processor but unfortunately doesn't work.
@@ScottSchrammplease test with desktop pc pcie firewire card,
And if use laptop, try another cheapest method, use wlan mini pcie to egpu
@@rjmikael sorry, I don’t have any of that available to test with
hi , i try your method with my Lonovo Legion 5 Ryzen 5 but couldnt detect my camcmorder ...can help ?
Unfortunately this process is not going to work with AMD processors as Thunderbolt is an Intel technology.
Well, it seems I am in luck. I have a Razer Blade RZ09-03102 with Thunderbolt 3 USB-C port. I am just waitin for my firewire 400 mini to 800 cable.
BEST UA-cam video that brings me closer to importing Hi.8-,DV and HDV tapes via firewire. So conned into buying an expensive Windows 11 pro video editing PC as useless, but then did intel tell them they were killing off firewire support forever and never mentioned in any CPU specs. Yes the PC has 12th Gen CPU. .Even the costly firewire card card is NOT working- its a minefield is it the TI chipset or the VIA chipset needed. Plus Pinnacle software also not supporting AVI import despite stating on the boxed dvd. more money wasted my research has gone full circle - So it does appear I have to buy a 2nd hand pc or a MAC I've never used.. I had 3 canon HDV40 Camcorders and have a Sony Hi-8 cam and hundreds of tapes to import onto hard drives for editing later.
But cant do that.
What do I actually have to do not to waste any more money i.e. buy an old pc and buy a VIA chipset firewire card. what should Itry to buy given the above and what software all actually allows Importing of AVI files -
My old pc did it using windows 10 now unserviceable. However Pinnacle refuse to acknowledge I'm not a pirate stating software is not transferable to another PC read the Ula, despite me offering to give all the invoice details. The new PC has 14TB hard drives for the purpose of storing all this footage. In short what software to recognise my camcorders to import AVI then edit at a later date. Vegas pro states it should work provided certain codecs are installed. But that's not certain here lies the problem I've wasted money for over six months.
My prime objective is to conserve all this valuable footage ? LOSSY in case tapes degrade. it appears many software will edit AVI once its on hard drives- BUT CANT IMPORT VIA FIRWIRE.
Any one know for sure what I have to get exactly to achieve what I thought was a simple thing to import of AV off my camcorders to a PC . I would shell out again if I knew what would work and totally agree those cheap contraptions with cables to import cut down quality. I expect editing stage will do that ? MP4 may not be noticeable.
Any help appreciated Rob.
=
Buy a used MacBook Pro from like 2014-2016 and follow my other video. Works great on Mac's with the exception of one OS released where Apple had a bug, but they've fixed that. Once you've captured everything on the Mac, put it on an external hard drive or NAS and then move that to your high end PC for editing.
@@ScottSchramm A great many thanks for quick reply. Its funny today I was looking at a LaCie 1TB external hard drive with 400 and 800 ports. I may have a silly question can I not import camcorder AVI footage to to the the LaCie firewire ports from the camcorders ? which should be AVI FILES stored - Then Export the files to the high end PC to a file for storage and edit later. I assume there are still NLE editing software to edit AVI files as many wont accept direct import ie Pinnacle despite me having version 18 to 23 . But some can edit once the files are on the hard drive ? vegas pro or is there a better option to edit with intermediate skills.
@@gpop9878 you can’t transfer the video directly to the external hard drive. You need to use a computer to capture the video and then transfer it to the external hard drive.
So I have a 9th gen Intel CPU with an ASUS Z390 motherboard. It has a "USB-C" port on the back. But that does not mean it has Thunderbolt, correct? How would I connect my camcorder to my PC in this scenario?
Yeah that’s not Thunderbolt but if you have a desktop you can get a PCIe FireWire card. Check my video description for a link.
I wonder if it would work with an iPad pro M2 and a old Firewire Interface?
I’ve tested with the 12.9” iPad Pro with M2 (2022 model) and unfortunately it did not work. iOS does not have any FireWire support.
Here is another finding, when I opened the Thunderbolt 3 App, and checked the "approved Thunderbolt Devices", the statement written said: "no approvals needed, devices will be automatically connected." Of course, that is because I set Thunderbolt security in BIOS to NONE, as I am trying everything to get this to work. I have a bad feeling that "some" windows 11 10th generation processors are not going to allow this to work, maybe i7 processors with certain core counts. OR, maybe a docking station will work with Gen.10 i7's??
I'm on a 11th Gen Windows 11 setup, and followed all these steps exactly, but can't get WinDV to detect the camera, so I think there's more to this. my old computer just burnt out, so I think I need to buy an old computer with a 1394/firewire cable set up.
Such a pain after spending so much on these cables. Great video by Scott, but I guess maybe Dell 11th Gen windows setups dont work well with this?
@@OpticalChaos I did get WinDv to work on my Dell Laptop running Windows 11, but I needed to hook the Apple Dongles that Scott mentioned to a DELL Thunderbolt 4 docking station. Why "this" works using the TB4 station is a puzzle to me, it might be that the Dell TB4 docking station is buffering the electronics somehow and it keeps things "happy".
@@graywolf1911 this is the exact set up I've got going, using the Dell Thunderbolt Dock (but the WD19TBS model docking station)
the cable works as the Camera detects it, Its the computer that doesn't seem to be able to detect the camera??? weird
@@OpticalChaos Scott may have more ideas on this. I know that Dell TB4 docking station works , and using windows 11 with 11th generation processor. I made sure that my DELL had the TB4 docking station drivers installed also.
Hi, I have a Dell laptop with 11 gen processor and Thunderbolt 4. Am looking for options for a Thunderbolt 3 docking station ( am in Canada). Anything specific the docking station needs to have - are lots out there - would like to find one that is a reasonable price. Thanks!!
Make sure your processor is compatible.
@@ScottSchrammit’s 11 gen so if I understood your video, I will need a Thunderbolt 3 hub. Am in Canada so trying to find a reasonably priced one - any suggestions would be great!!
@@joannab499 I wasn't able to personally verify it, but the Dell dock I mentioned in my video is reported to work. I have a link in my video description, hopefully the Canada Amazon has it.
Do you think 12th gen can use thunderbolt to pcie and then just plug pcie Firewire card on there, will it work that way?
It should work. I haven’t personally tested it but other people in the comments have reported success
Scott, will purchasing a TB3 docking station potentially solve my problem? You show using a TB4 docking station (Promise Technolgy TB300 ) to try to get your 12th Gen Laptop working (failed), and for obvious reasons with what Intel in their ultimate wisdom decided to do; but what about my Gen 10 i7 processor system? I see many TB docking stations with TB3 and 4 ports, but before I open the wallet, I would like your opinion. The docking station is certainly useful regardless of my present dilemma.
Both docks I tested (Promise and Dell) are Thunderbolt 3 and did not work with my 12th gen. I don't have any Thunderbolt 4 docks to try. I read the dock workaround may for work 10th and 11th gen systems. I don't have first hand experience with it, but read posts from other people who said it works, so I included it in the video as it's worth a shot. If you get it to work with your Dell, let us know!
@@ScottSchramm Dell laptop Thunderbolt 4, Windows 11 11th gen.... the Dell lap top doesnt detect the cable/camera, but once plugged into the Dock WD19TBS it detects the Camera, it even pops up on the Camcorders LCD screen as 'DV IN', however WinDV doesn't detect the camera?
@@OpticalChaos I replied to your other comment on the last video
@@ScottSchramm thank you, got it, and i'll be looking into those software options today. cheers
Hi
First thankt you for investigating in this 🙂
Unfortenately i didnt have any luck so far.
You mention @2:20 it should work with a TB3 dock, i use a TB3DK2DPPDUE as i dont have a dell K16A, i bought a StarTech TBT3TBTADAP - but it still dont show up in Thunderbolt Control Center og Device Maneger.
What laptop are you using?
@@ScottSchramm it is HP Elitebook 840 G8 adv
@@shummidoo Hmm, I looked up your dock and PC and they should work with the 11th gen but I haven''t personally tested it so I can't guarantee it. The only thing I can recommend is reading this page as it may be similar: support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/4406516070541-Quantum-Thunderbolt-4-Crashing-Issues-with-Windows-Systems
@@ScottSchramm thanks, i already followed that. I have a USB3.1 Cable between the pc and Dock, I dont know if it is a problem, but I just ordered a thunderbolt cable.
@@shummidoo That could be your problem. You definitely need a Thunderbolt cable between the laptop and dock
Hi, I have been wating for this 🙂
But i dont work for me. I have a
11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1185G7 connected to
StarTech thunderbolt3 hub TB3DK2DPPDUE and
TB3-> TB2 -> FW etc
Only the dock shows up in Thunderbolt Control Center 😞
maybe i need a startech TB3 -> TB2 adaptor :-((((((
From my testing, the StarTech TB3 to TB2 adapter works exactly the same as the Apple one and the Apple one is cheaper. I honestly don't know what is special about StarTech's adapter since it's physically larger and more then double the cost. The only thing I can recommend is buying one and giving it a try and then if it doesn't work you can always return it.
I have a 11th Gen processor and a Thunderbolt 4 port on my Dell Inspiron 7610. I have the apple adapters going from Thunderbolt to mini Firewire, but my camcorders do no recognize them. Based upon your instructions for 11th Gen processors, will the Dell docking station that you mention in your efforts with a 12th gen processor work the same as the StarTech adapter for downgrading my Thunderbolt 4 to Thunderbolt 3? The reason I asked is a refurbished unit is only $40, vs $110 for the adapter.
It's hit or miss but the dock is probably the best choice because you can use it for other things if this use case doesn't work out.
Well, the TB16 Docking station didn't work. I was able to hook up drives and other devices but it would not connect with either camera. I would see in my device drivers a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, but no camera. I went to Dell's website and found they do not have drivers for Windows 11. That might be the issue unless you know any work around. Thanks for your research and videos. Very informative.@@ScottSchramm
@@user-by7gd4my3x You don't need any drivers for the dock in Windows 11 and the fact that it worked for drives means it's working. Really weird that the camcorder did not work with the same setup. What model camcorders do you have and what software are you using do try and do the capture?
Two different sony's. HDR-HC3 and an older Sony DCR-PC7
@@ScottSchramm
@@user-by7gd4my3x For the DCR-PC7, make sure to use the WinDV software. For the HDR-HC3, if your tape was recorded in HD, make sure you use the HDVSplit software otherwise, if the tape is SD and the camcorder is outputting DV and not HDV, then use WinDV or try the tape in the other camcorder.
let me ask this bluntly, i only have usb and usbc. am i screwed? (my laptop is a lenovo ideapad 330S-15arr if that matters)
Check out this video: How to use FireWire WITHOUT adapters to capture DV & HDV video tapes with an old computer
ua-cam.com/video/LXXSZdOZb-k/v-deo.html
do you still need the adapters to be Apple? hard to come by affordable and available ones.
Yes buy the Apple ones. For TB 3 to TB 2, the only other company that makes working adapters is Startech but they are even more experience then Apple. For TB to FW you have to use Apple because there are no other options that actually work. I have links to everything in my video description and the pinned comment.
Hurry, Amazon has the FireWire adapter back in stock: amzn.to/47fYX4J
My 8th gen will not recognize the camera. WinDV says "error device not found." Using a Lenovo X1
There are over a dozen different versions of the Lenovo X1. Are you sure you are connected to a Thunderbolt port? Have you followed the troubleshooting steps I've provided in the video description?
Problem fixed, you stated that we should use Apple branded adapters. I glossed over that initially and bought some third party. All good now. I wouldn't be able to do this without your videos. Thank you!
Just curious but does this also apply to the latest AMD processors?
Sorry I’m not sure as I don’t ha r any AMD systems to test with. Thunderbolt is an Intel technology so the only way that might work is a desktop with a PCIe card.
Hi sir. I watched many of your vídeos and i went for a computer tô work with my firewire sound card. And this vídeo câmera out. I am screwed . I bought a 12th generation by The time tou released This Last vídeo.. and didnt see before. IF there is a change..let me know pleaee
If I do find a workaround I will post a new video so please subscribe and ring the bell for notification.
Same here, I have 13th gen i7. So I might super screwed!
Have you tried a Thunderbolt to Expresscard, a Firewire expresscard and ... a cable? The Thunderbolt to Expresscard isn't cheap, though.
I have not personally tried it, but options via Expresscard or PCMCIA cards should work. I mentioned them in one of my older videos.
Does this work on a laptop with an AMD Ryzen 9 Processor?
It should as long as you have Thunderbolt.
what about AMD Ryzen 9 AM5 asking for a friend lol I can't get the device to be detected by winDV using the thunderbolt to USB-C
Not sure about AMD. But if you have a desktop you can install a PCIe card with FireWire on it. That is the cheaper and better way to go. Watch my latest video for more info on this.
10th generation Intel i7 in Windows 11 OS Dell Laptop is not working for me either. I have all the necessary cables and Apple dongles that have proven to work, still a black screen using WinDV. VERY disappointing! The Thunderbolt 3 APP shows Apple Thunderbolt adapter and firewire connectors WORKING, but it will not download Sony tapes. The Video is not appreciated by the micro-processor, I fear.
Damn, so there's no way to get a gen 12 Processor to recognize firewire. Even if you got a PCIe Card?
I think someone in the comments on this video said they built a desktop and was able to get ti working with a PCIe card but I'm unable to test or confirm it. It's worth a shot if you are able to try it!
Thanks, Intel 12th generation here. 😞 It means that I can't use my Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 FireWire audio interface anymore...
😢
not all heroes wear capes
I'm still not following the chains of adapters. You kind of speed through them at warp 6, and don't show the connectors as you do it.
I sped through it because I've made several other videos about this in the past where I provided more detail. Please give this one a watch: ua-cam.com/video/GASIuX1mqwE/v-deo.html
@@ScottSchramm Thank you! Although, looking at these adapter prices, I think it's going to be way cheaper to just buy an old laptop that has the older firewire ports on it😄
@@ZzZ-qd1zo That is a good option as well. I'm working on a video that goes over old computer options that will work.
@@ScottSchramm You're a hero for sure!
Hey do you still own a Hyundai sonata?
Yep
Hi Scott ! I'm religious viewer of your tutorials since I've decided to look for solution in connecting my old Hi8 Sony CCD TR 805E to a laptop without FireWire port. Ofcourse all the computers that are having it, reading the tapes problemless. Connecting my Sony to the Canopus 300 viad Video-S and pair of chinch audio cables does not bring me anyware. Connection starting with mini to full 1394 adaptor (A-B), and than the other end which is FireWire 800 to the famous apple adaptores doesn't do anything. After viewing the update concerning Thunderbolt 4 instead of 3 I've purchased the Thunderbolt 3 dockingstation - also no luck. The laptop: Lenovo X1 nano with Thund 4. I'm stopping believing that the connection will be ever possible. Even order second pair of "white" apple adaptors from FireWire 800 to Thunderbolt 3. Everything, what youre explaining in your videos is cristal crear understandable and very helpful. If you'd find a moment to address my problem, it will be appreciated maybe by also by others capture fanatics ! 🙂
I don't think it will work with your newer laptop. You'll need to use an older system. I made an updated video here: ua-cam.com/video/LXXSZdOZb-k/v-deo.html
@@ScottSchramm Hi and thank you for such express respond. All the adaptors are in place, Tunderbolt 3 also, laptop has 11th generation processor, everything is redy to go as per one of your videos, but apparently something is misssing. 🤔
dvds can be interlaced.
That is true.
@@ScottSchramm 5:10
@@GeorgeGraves There is nothing on that slide to indicate either format being interlaced or progressive.
@@ScottSchramm Your VO does
@@GeorgeGraves Sorry for the confusion.
My CPU is 13th gen. and I cannot use the Apple adapters I bought and am willing to sell both for $50 + shipping. DM if interested . I bought two sets and will keep on set and can no longer return the others. 1 Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter and 1 Apple Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter. Save about $30 bucks or so.
I literally have 13th gen :( This laptop is brand new new. DX
I haven't read the comments but you are wrong about the analogue capture option. With a good digitiser such as the IOData GV-USB2, the S-video quality is very, very close to the native DV quality. Certainly, it will kill your DVD recorder option if you can't get the Thunderbolt workflow going. It does require a camcorder with S-Video Out, but most higher-end units (inc D8) have this.
Going digital to analog and back to digital again is going to loose quality. It doesn't matter how great your USB capture device is, the fact is, it's not going to be as good as capturing the digital signal directly. In one of my older videos, I explained this a little further: ua-cam.com/video/yT0oDYbqwwk/v-deo.html
@@ScottSchramm Scott, I'm not comparing analogue vs Digital. Of course the preference will be to transfer digitally, but you (and I) are talking about the analogue capture because you can't do a digital transfer ie with 12th gen CPUs. I can assure you that a lossless analogue capture with the GV-USB2 is indistinguishable from a DV transfer.
@@aaprods Glad you found a method that works for you. I would rather use an older PC or a Mac and do the capture via FireWire
@@ScottSchramm Scott, very little/no difference between DV and Analogue. Certainly cheaper/easier than setting up an old computer. ua-cam.com/video/RyOdt0KM3K4/v-deo.html
@@ScottSchramm Hey Scott, appreciate video -- I am an older retired Air Force IT guy, but unfortunately technology has passed me by. I thought I had lost all of my home videos on HI 8 in flood, but have just found about 50 tapes (about half digital and half analog) . I have a Sony TRV520 that plays them on the camcorder screen, but my laptop is 12th generation Windows 11. Specs say it has two Thunderbolt 4 ports (USB-c), but they don't have any lightning bolt by them (Dell XPS) -- about half of the 50 tapes were already on DVD from almost 20 years ago using a desktop with capture card/firewire -- I took those DVD's and played them on my laptop and just used snipping tool to capture video and saved as MP4. Quality isn't as important to me as just saving the videos of my 3 daughters growing up. I purchased the firewire from camera to the two apple connections you listed but don't see anything on my computer and expected that since you said it did not work with Gen 12 - but hoped I could just get it to play and then do the snip trick again. Do you have any advice on way ahead? Willing to try to find older laptop to make work or capture box just to play and snip, whatever it takes. Thanks -- Gene
DVDs are not progressive, they are interlaced
DVDs can be either, which is why many DVD players feature "Progressive Scan," so depending on whether the setting is enabled or not, it will convert the format if needed.
😊 'promosm'