Science Vs. Creationism
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- Опубліковано 1 тра 2024
- Is religion simply magical thinking? Can science and religion work together?
This clip is from Talk Heathen, Episode 08.17 for April 28, 2024 with Jimmy Jr. and Richard Gilliver!
See the full episode: • Biblical Magic, The Me...
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No one really goes to church in the UK. They're more like museums. The church in my village is over 800 years old. Im atheist, but i love going and exploring the really old ones.
I'm former Orthodox and holy crap the icons and tapestry in our churches.
100%! I'm from the USA and I visited Denmark in 2019 and the Cathedral in Roskilde was one of the coolest buildings I've ever been in! So much history in the old churches!
@@phoenixkingtheo totally. The one I visited had the tomb of a king, with a full size of his likeness in stone, with all his armour and sword. Just amazing
@@sampeeps3371 that’s amazing! Obviously don’t agree with the beliefs in them, but you can’t deny they’re super cool buildings!
I live about 15 miles from Durham Cathedral, it is one of the most beautiful buildings I've ever seen.
The hosts do an incredible job of trying to help the caller get out of the ditch in which he is stuck. Sadly, this is what religious indoctrination does to a mind. As Mr. Hitchens said, “Religion poisons everything!” This is poignantly true when it comes to the human brain.
Man, this was just painful to listen to. "What evidence do you have?" "Well, my book says that it's true. So there's that!" Why do these people not understand that claims aren't evidence.
Worse, all holy texts claim their god or gods exists, but yet somehow only their god exists because a book says so while the other holy texts are false for some reason.
@@Ghalaghor_McAllistor Special pleading from "special" (unbelievably simple) minded people.
An adult with this pathetic of a mindset is ABSURD - but astoundingly common (I was raised in the south east of the US - people are unbelievably confident while being unbelievably uneducated. Their condescension matches their confidence, yet they simply don't understand basic concepts.)
It WOULD BE laughable if these idiots (perfect Dunning-Kruger example clowns) weren't the overwhelming majority.
How exactly would one prove God? Christians can say “Jesus” and so on.. but otherwise how would you provide evidence of something with no physical properties?
@@btipton115that’s their problem to figure out.
@@btipton115 Exactly. No evidence means no gods or other supernatural beings. Otherwise, people could claim anything exists just because they say so.
If we were made from dust why is there still dust?
This is truly a “checkmate theists using your own logic” moment
Edit: to be fair “creationists” more so than “theists”
Great job guys. The different atheist shows all have personalities that bring something unique to these discussions. I mean really, how many ways can you dispute "Genesis is true!" and other claims like that? But the atheist shows hosts different takes on how to go about that can still keep things fresh.
It always amazes me that god is so powerful yet he seems to only have human-like perspective
What is human like about creating the universe… ohhh your just talking about the Christian god
Exactly; reflecting exactly the beliefs of the believer… 🤔
"I have this absurd claim that I want everyone to believe!"
"Okay, provide evidence for the claim."
"Here's this book where the claim is originally found within!"
"Your claim is not evidence."
"YES IT IS, PEOPLE WROTE ABOUT THINGS IN THE PAST THAT WERE TRUE, SO WE SHOULD JUST GRANDFATHER THAT IN AND ASSUME ITS TRUE BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE PAST!"
"What's your evidence?"
"I don't have any."
Don’t forget “If god were to exist, then it would make sense that everything we see is evidence for god”. (Never mind that even this premise itself doesn’t make sense, let alone the implied follow-up premise that god exists that makes this whole argument circular.)
Evidence means: my book says X, how do you explain that?- someone that doesn’t care about truth.
It honestly it is sad how the arguments for religion haven’t changed in thousands of years. “I don’t know what else it could be therefore god!” Is that really the best argument people have for a deity?
It’s sad that you can’t prove the unproven either, even with science. Faith makes more sense than not having scientific proof in most cases
@@btipton115 You can't tell us why your god exists and not all the other gods whose holy texts claim they exist because their holy texts say so.
@@btipton115lol what on earth
@@btipton115 I can't wait for you to call the show.
Please call this week but in addition to that please, please call on the 12 th when I next host. This statement needs to be explored
@@btipton115
Have you heard of the god of the gaps fallacy perchance?
"I think in like Isiah 44:22 or something like that."
Oh ya, I am convinced!
The point with the Big bang should be that we can't say that it's a starting point. It's about as far as we can extrapolate current evidence, but whether that was the case or whether there was something before we don't know AFAIK.
If your god gives you nothing better than 'what else can it be?', that god doesn't care about you.
So after a painful half hour, the evidence for god is I don’t understand so what else could it be and a book written to sell the idea of god, says god exists. I’m convinced!
The observable portion of the universe appears to have begun ~13.8 Billion years ago. We have very little insight into what might exist beyond our observable region of space.
The "observable universe" is not the same as the "entire universe"
Our understanding of space/time breaks down a few.milliseconds after.that expansion began. That does not mean that there was no time before that point, it means we don't understand what that would look like.
The caller says he lost where he was for a while at 20.18. He was lost at 0.01 surely?
protip: if you have a claim and need to back it up with some evidence, the evidence will not be telling your interlocutor(s) that something about them is wrong. this will not prove your point. if you're being told to prove that you have a purple monkey in your basement, the answer will never be "well your tie is red, not blue."
Best part is the Bible says the world is a "circle." It's round, but like a penny.
It seems that more theists are using the “why don’t say oh god/jesus Christ if you don’t believe in him?” Again.
Folks, it’s a common colloquialism at this point. It is a turn of phrase now.
Sonoluminescence:"Let there be light "
I've made an observation of material evidence that demonstrates transmutation by electrical process of genetically superior creatures in my video 'Begining of understanding '
My channel is dedicated to giving examples of this
Caleb thinks the accounts of the Bible is the evidence for God, so he wasn't changing the subject and he was trying to answer the question. So, in effect, what he was probably hearing was "stop trying to answer my question, and instead, answer my question".
I think it would've been far more productive to go into why his answer isn't a good answer, i.e. why that isn't good evidence for God, rather than trying to get him to answer the question he was already trying to answer.
If we ignore that a god couldn't exist outside space time and pretend a god exits, it wouldn't create any way and this is why:
Imagine "nothing", you can't. The reason you can't is that thought requires tangibles to think about.
First and most obvious, you can't be a god of nothing, so if, there's nothing before "god" creates theres can't be a god. Well that was easy.
So, god is out there before it creates anything. There's nothing, so god can't think. In the nothingness, thought is impossible. Need, want, desire, lonely all require tangibles. So before god creates, it's not lonely, it doesn't need, want or desire anything because there is nothing to need, want or desire. Obviously god would never need want or desire to create so it wouldn't.
And that is backed up by another obvious fact: The bible says "God is unchanging". Really, okay I accept that. Theists are always saying god is the only un-caused cause, so other than a god there can't be an un- caused cause.
Okay then, gods out there fore an eternity, an infinite length of time and is unchanging. Given there can't be a cause, why would god create? Why in year 2,672,837,967,332,,234,598,306,126,28502,000~ did god decide: "I'll create now", when it is unchanging, nothing can cause it to think, it can't think and it doesn't need, want or desire to create.
It's pretty clear the only possible thing that would allow a god to create is seeing a naturally occurring universe, by which time, there's no point in creating it.
Okay, theists, time to try and think of a lie. But it had better be good because it's not going to work and we need entertainment.
I am pretty sure that there is consensus that Job is older than Genesis, but I could be wrong.
How do you have a prequel to "in the beginning"?
And there it is. A theist confusing the word theory thinking it means a guess we've pulled out of our ass and not a Demonstrable fact that's been tested and proven.
Richard accepted when called said universe was created and that suggests creator he made a mistake im sure
This guy questions how we come from dust but the universe comes from nothing he understands somehow?
The universe didn't come from nothing.
@@Gabriel_Cook but it came from infinite energy? So something did create the universe… and it’s laws of physics. Sounds like an all powerful mighty source of creation
@@btipton115 There are so many creation myths from different religions and all of them claim to be true because their holy texts say so.
@@btipton115
But there’s no good evidence that source of creation was intelligent. You’re basically stating the Kalam and drawing an unwarranted conclusion.
The universe didn't come from nothing.
I thought you said we were rubbish at debating?
Give us a call, every Sunday at 1pm central
What an insulting comparison. it should be more like one creation myth versus another creation myth Which would be no different than one creation myth versus Superman's origin story in my opinion
Presupp-God created science! Oh no......now what do we do?! Haha!
Well if he created everything including laws of physics.. then science would be proving these things exist. Science proving physics doesn’t disprove God.
@btipton115 Steady on! I was being sarcastic with the analogy. 🤣
@btipton115 Not going down a circular rabbit hole-totally pointless.
Son there is no god never was never could be.
57 “likes” in annnd….nope
The bible sausage world is round, it doesn't say the world in a sphere.
It’s not science vs religion. It’s scientists with one word view vs scientists with an opposing worldview. Now you know 😇
It’s not even science… this guy is expecting evidence of the unprovable. Science doesn’t prove everything.
You're 100% wrong, but thanks for playing.
@@AlbertaGeek So as well as not believing there is a God, you also believe there are no scientists that are creationists?😇
@@paulfromcanada5267 _"you also believe there are no scientists that are creationists?"_
I do not. What you are wrong about is that creationism and relevant scientific models are simply equal but opposite "world views". That is no different from saying that the sun being eaten by the celestial dragon and the sun being eclipsed by the moon are equal but opposite "world views".
They are not.
Like the celestial dragon, creationism is myth and superstition. And like the moon eclipsing the sun, modern scientific models re: the cosmos, the Earth, and life upon the Earth are fact.
There are no scientists with scientific reasons to be creationists.
Also, these guys always sit back on “no evidence” yet they can explain how a consciousness works. I’d love to hear your their evidence explaining the start of the universe. These guys always need evidence but can’t prove the universe around them
We're not sitting back on the 'no evidence', there is no evidence.
I look forward to hearing your call on Sunday
@@sceptictakeout6809 then the first question I would ask you is what would you except as evidence. When clearly no one can prove a god exists
@@btipton115
Did you call?
I hope they talked about the god of the gaps, the null hypothesis, and the burden of proof.
Where is the evidence where is the evidence… where is the evidence he doesn’t exist rather than being in existence
Does an invisible pink unicorn exist until *you* can disprove it or would it be on me as the claimer of such a being to prove it exists? Same with any god, if you say there is a god you need to provide evidence it exists.
Where is the evidence, where is the evidence, where is the evidence that God isn't a pedophile and pederast??? Where???
Okay can you prove what consciousness is? Give me the evidence, and please be as scientific as you like.
@@btipton115 Believers made the claim that any gods exists first so believers need to provide evidence that they exist. Until then, either all gods exists according to every holy text or no god exists.
@@btipton115
Now you’re just deflecting. We weren’t talking about consciousness. Stop waving your hands in a different direction.
Id love to hear these guys give evidence that consciousness exists… they can’t prove everything by evidence
Still no evidence that your god exists or else you would have provided it already.
@@Ghalaghor_McAllistor okay prove god doesn’t exist.. then I will prove he does exist.
@@btipton115 Prove that Odin, Vishnu, Pangu, Zeus, Horus, Quetzalcoatl and Kamuy don't exist. Until then, they all exist since you are unnable to disprove them.
@@btipton115
Which god do you believe in?
@@btipton115 You might want to google "Burden of Proof," and then explore philosophy and neuroscience for your consciousness questions.
First of all, if you are using pronouns, you couldn't be any less scientific.
You used two pronouns in your post 🤣🤣🤣
@@SurgiusMaximusbrilliant response!
👏
😂
I'm willing to bet any dollar amount that you use pronouns in everyday speech and writing and have been using pronouns since you first learned to speak. As Surgius already showed, you used two pronouns in your post complaining about pronoun usage, so it isn't looking too good for you.
What was the second point?
Shall I assume there isn't one?
These guys are the worst debaters… let me know next time you’re live and I’ll call ya
Please keep calling them until you get on their show.
@@Ghalaghor_McAllistor oh I hope I do get on and listen to the scrambling for evidence
We're live every Sunday at 1pm central, if you want to speak to these hosts in particular I'm next on on the 12th, Jimmy Jr is on the 19th.
Please give us a call, call early so we can give you plenty of time
I dunno mate. I don't think you've been doing an awesome job of debating your views here in the comments to be honest. I feel like your confidence may be a little misplaced.
Did you call in?
18:44 he might want to look into quantum mechanics, im not a quantum scientist, but last i heard from that field was that quantum particles do seem to pop in and out of our currently observable reality.
Its incredibly amazing how nature is so much cooler and amazing than an imaginary sky wizard could ever imagine being
If you meditate & open your mind to the spiritual world you meet God & Satan & figure things out for yourself. You don't need religion to teach you what is right in front of you as soon as you open your mind to it
What a vacuous statement. Could you give us a call Sunday so we can dig down into it?
Science is how we understand God's universe and our place in it.
🤦♂️
Okay. Which god? How do you know it's that god? Which methodology did you use to dismiss all other gods?
Can you do all that without making the No True Scottsman Fallacy?
He clearly lost the documentation for Quantum Mechanics, though.
@@SurgiusMaximus It's easy, God said he spoke the universe into existence and the Big Bang proves it happened. Obviously Jesus was pretty special, we are still talking about him 2,000 years later.
@@dragonfiremalus Quantum Mechanics existed AFTER the universe was created, not before..........no universe no quantum mechanics
@@TheDjnatronic and how do you know it wasn't any of the other thousands of gods throughout thousands of other religions that also have their own Genesis stories. Oh and you still have the No True Scottsman Fallacy to consider. You can't claim your religion is the true one, as others say the same.
27:52 that "IF" must play Bethesda games with the amount that it is over encumbered
NO