The Dark side of Science: The Lobotomy, the worst surgery in history? (Documentary)
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- #History #Science #lobotomy
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A lobotomy, or leucotomy as it was originally known, was a form of psychosurgery, a neurosurgical treatment of a mental disorder that involves severing connections in the brain's prefrontal cortex.
The Barbaric surgery left many a shell of their former selves, and marks a dark point in mental health treatment.
Al though originally conceived in Portugal by Doctor Egas Moniz in the 1940s It would continue well into the 1960s under the hands of Walter freeman in the US.
The surgery would win Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine of 1949 for the "discovery of the therapeutic value of leucotomy in certain psychoses".
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I can't help but feel that if you had an anxiety disorder, being informed that they were going to hammier an ice pick into your brain in a procedure with a 15% chance of killing you wouldn't help matters. I think I'd stick with the anxiety.
oddly enough, the meds they give a lot of people with an anxiety disorder (like me) now work on the GABA-a receptor, which alcohol also works on (just less targeted and has effects on more stuff. benzos aren’t ideal either, but they are more targeted towards GABA-a than ethanol). so i reckon anxious people would’ve just developed a drinking problem a lot of the time. alcohol dependence sucks in the long term (don’t know from personal experience, but yeah), but in my opinion it’s definitely less terrifying than a lobotomy overall
If you’ve ever had repeated panic attacks caused by anxiety you might want that 15% to be higher. People are desperate :/
Been there, would have taken literally anything to make it stop. Psyche is a bitch, can bring you to the edge quicker than anything
That's certainly one way to look at it Jago.
Wise words, Jago. Nice to know there’s some cool crossover with two of my favourite channels :)
As a child of the 1950's, I saw children threatened with lobotomies if they didn't behave. The procedure was published in periodicals in the US, available to anyone who could read. I always considered it death without dying. Give it a 9.
Some survived it relatively okay. For some it was really bad. Rosemary Kennedy suffered hypoxic brain damage during her birth, so her brain had to use her frontal cortex for important basic functions like walking and speaking. Lobotomy destroyed her completely (which was actually the point why her family wanted in the first place).
@@adamrak7560 Brain specialists thought that a specific function occurred in a specific place in the brain. Now we know this is not a hard and fast rule. The brain can assign a function other places, not always because of injury or disease. These lobotomy patients suffered greatly.
Royal Pain In The Ass what if he was? why do you care?
@@maeborowski1315 well you don’t see a 70 year old in UA-cam comments everyday
@@maeborowski1315 I am 71. That means I've been around the block more than twice. That is an insult aimed at Royal Pain intimating that he probably cannot count to three.
The Lobotomy became so popular that one of JFK's sisters received one due to an apparent developmental disorder as well as seizures and mood swings. This reduced her to the mental capacity of a two-year-old and was kept secret for decades. Absolutely crazy.
*Her name was Rosemary Kennedy, sorry for ommiting that.
Rose Kennedy, and her "behavior disorder" is entirely theoretical. It's been said that she was actually normal, just outspoken, and Joe Kennedy had her lobotomized to keep her quiet and docile.
Yep. Second worst thing to happen to a Kennedy's brain.
@@DeathKorpsMailman 😂
I mean at least the guy who performed the procedure on John F. Kennedy had the courage to go all the way through, removing much larger portion of brain matter and increasing fatality rate to 100%
@@DeathKorpsMailman only 32 likes?!? C'mon dark humor people wake up!
In a lot of cases lobotomy was effectively just a "legal assassination," people would force their family members to get the treatment because they were an embarrassment to the family.
If I remember correctly, one of JFK's sisters actually got the procedure done because she was slightly rebellious (like a normal teen), so she was forced to get one, which pretty much rendered her borderline brain dead.
Rosemary Kennery's issues were reportedly quite a bit heavier than being "slightly rebellious": she'd suffered hypoxia during birth (because the insane nurse had told her mother to keep her legs closed and keep the baby's head stuck in the birth canal for two hours as the doctor was not available), by all accounts she had extensive learning difficulties (although some attributed them to depressive episodes) and suffered from seizures and violent mood swings.
And she was not a teen when the operation was forced upon her, she was 23.
The operation did completely destroy her though, and worse it was done primarily for sociopolitical reasons: Kennedy Sr. feared she would embarrass the family, and never bothered visiting her after the catastrophe, an absolute monster.
@@Bob-nc5hz But old man Kennedy was a ok with Edward Kennedy leaving Mary Jo Kopechne to drown in the car he drove off a bridge, drunk as a skunk.
I haven't even watched the video yet but reading the comments already makes me feel sick.
@@Bob-nc5hz The only justice was that her father was rendered mute and disabled after a horrific stroke.
@@Bob-nc5hz I heard the nurse even went as far as to push baby Rosemary back into the womb until the doctor arrived. I know medical science was still pretty limited back then, but I don’t think you’d need advanced medical knowledge to assume that pushing a baby back into the womb for 2 hours is probably not a good idea.
My aunt had one, the family just told us when we were small that she had part of her “worry gland removed” She had been in an abusive relationship and was “hysterical” (this was before ptsd)” She had a lobotomy to “settle her down” She suffered anxiety, nerves, couldn’t work anymore amongst other things. She was a lovely, gentle lady. Heartbreaking.
Wow how terrible :(
What was her thoughts on it?
@@criticality2056 " "
@@criticality2056 She used to say “well they obviously had their reasons for doing it, I was probably unbearable to live with and at least it got me out of that hospital” My dad used to get upset when he spoke about it because he said his sister went into the hospital but only half of her came out of there. She left the mischievous, funny and outgoing part of her (basically, everything that made her, her!) in the hospital.
@@tnsmom the poor thing, she probably would've bounced back from the relationship in time. Sad that she had that done to her 😔
I’d rate it a 10. As Oseresky said, it violates the principles of humanity. This procedure literally torn people’s personality from them.
Even their soul perhaps
@@centerpoint2844 a part of their soul will be gone
@@sig_semesis1813 they probably couldn’t even think proper thoughts for the rest of their lives and had headaches and migraine until they died
@@Chuked yes, and they will always feel that a part of them is missing. Literally and illiterally
@@sig_semesis1813 their soul is there still, but the body/mind are unable to follow the commands of the soul
It's like someone coming to a doctor with a broken leg and the doctor just cuts the leg off. "The operation was a great success: the patient hasn't complained about pain in his leg when walking since".
My dad got this but it was at the dentist
@@shuttlecockgourock3948 Bruh
Your not wrong it is exactly like that
@Femboy Vigilante Lmao no basically instead of healing his aching teeth he killed them at the roots so he had to get them removed. My dad learned later on that he did this on a lot of his patients (without telling them of course)
@@shuttlecockgourock3948 Isn't that what a root canal is? Removing the roots entirely?
I worked in a small long term care home in mid 1990's. In this facility was a very elderly woman. She had the mind of a very small child. She could only articulate specific words. But could walk and feed herself. She had one surviving relative that was a niece who came around every 6 months or so, but was in contact by phone with the facility. The elderly lady really did not recognize her. This is what the niece told us. The elderly lady was Catholic and was about 16 yrs. Old. She was a active, loving, vibrant young lady. She met a young man by today's standards of 18 yrs. Old that was non catholic. They fell in love, but kept it secret bc her parents objected to them dating bc of their religious differences. The 2 secretly saw each other for about a year. Her family found out and forbade her from seeing him. He tried every way he could, but her family would not allow it. They went so far as meeting his family and demanding he stop. His family began discouraging him bc they did not want anymore problems with her family. Slowly he gave up. She became increasingly depressed. Finally, the young man reluctantly did give up. This caused her depression to dive deeper, she was giving up, so much so that they hospitalized her. Because of how deep her depression was the dr. Reccommened a frontal lobe lobotomy, the family okayed it. It was done. So a vibrant, lively in love young woman was surgically reduced to a person whom is described as the elderly woman above with 1 surviving family member. A lifetime squashed, living as small child in an adult body. Not able to think beyond the immediate with no impulse control. Now what we could NEVER figure completely out. But the niece suspected, that a pregnancy was involved in that relationship., bc this elderly lady always had to have a babydoll with her, and when she did not. She became very upset grabbing at her belly and yelling BA-ABY!,repeatedly. Her niece stated she had done that for as far back as she could remember. Did she give birth to a love child and the baby adopted out, or was it possibly aborted? We will never know. All in all, lobotomies are horrendous. She was not the first victim of lobotomies that I came across in senior healthcare facilities.
That's horrible! Lobotomies are one of the evilist medical procedures to ever exist, if not the evilist. It's close to murder, like legal assassination. Thank you for sharing, what a harrowing story.
Humans are horrible.
This is so horribly sad !
Why lie to strangers on the internet? Is it an attention thing?
@Ppstorm whats the motive in lying in a youtube comment?
So, in short, all Lobotomy did was reducing aggressive yelling mental patients into quite vegetable-like patients. Much easier to handle, but not cured at all.
Well until recently the asylums weren’t really a place to treat people. More of a prison to make sure they don’t injure others. Medicine has advanced super fast over the 100 years. Only 40 years ago did they give babies anaesthesia because doctors thought babies weren’t able to feel pain
Not always, but in many cases yes.
Idk depends on your definition of cured if your aim was to purely stop the aggression then turning the person into a vegetable sounds like a succesful cure
And current neuroleptics do the same. If you think we can "cure" mental illness in 2021, you're deluding yourself. Most treatment is meant to reduce or otherwise mask symptoms. We don't know much more about the brain than they did back then. We've found some chemicals that seem to help, that's all. An antipsychotic of today essentially does the same thing a physical lobotomy did, just with less physical consequences and kinda-sorta reversible.
@@redderater6062 It wasn't even just because they were 'dangerous'. A lot of people were committed by their families who just didn't want to deal with the stigma, by abusive spouses looking to get rid of a burden, by parents who couldn't be bothered with their children's issues, etc. etc. Almost any excuse could be used, especially if you were a man with some degree of wealth and power. Nobody much cared who was in there, once they were neatly locked away. The inmates essentially had no rights, or at least no one to enforce them. So yeah. It was hell. The closest anyone came to getting treated was being experimented on.
Because poking a hole through the organ that controls almost every bodily function is a good idea. Always🙂.
although it's known that the frontal lobe is used to process emotion, destroying some of it might get you unable to feel emotion but will still function if you survive the hemorrhage.
@@sinatraforeign too risky
@@sinatraforeign emotions are a very important function of your body... there's a reason they exist
@@maxonite that's why most psychiatrists said serial killers got dropped by their carer when they were little, damaged their frontal lobe no more empathy.
It was removing bits...
Psychiatrists in 1940s: Its weird, we just permanently damage his brain severely with an ice pick and suddenly all his bad thoughts go away….Also his good thoughts but you cant see those, its a miracle!
To be fair, it was also psychochiatrists who heavily criticized the procedure.
Neulla é réale tutto é lécito
Public but secret military experiments
@@ominous-omnipresent-they AFTER they seen the Damage that happened to their Patients.
before they thought it would be fine to destroy Parts of The Brain with no care of the Consequence for their Patients.
injecting Alcohol into the brain? cutting away some pieces? hammering and Icepick into your brain?
sure, why not, we tried everything else Right?
thats the Thoughts of the good Guys. and of course, we know better now, how can we judge them... they believed in the idea so much that they didnt even do it out of curiosity, they really did think it would actually improve the mental Health to destroy Parts of the brain, so no hurt feelings, we are fine right?
Trust the experts. Trust the science. Do not ask questions.
Fun fact. Lobotomies used to be a treatment for epilepsy- and they actually had a success rate. So we still do something similar. In people with severe epilepsy that can't be treated with meds, they can actually get brain surgery and take out a small part of the brain causing the seizures. It's the same idea, just executed better. Caused a lot of suffering overall, but they were onto something there.
Yes but thanks to technology like FMRI we can actually see where we need to operate not just cut it like it was so much ice picked jello
Often in Epileptic Children, this can be done with minimal long-term damage, because the Child's brain still will grow, meaning it will be better able to grow new connections and repair the damage done. There's one example of a 12 year old who was given a lobotomy for acting out, and he managed to recover and still live a normal life
And that’s the hard truth, as abusive and disastrous as the lobotomy is, it still had its contributions to modern medicine and helped us learn from the mistakes.
Yeah that's what happened to me. I had seizures that were not fully controlled by meds to they took a small part on the right side of my brain
Yeah except it's backed by actual science. They sever the part of the brain that connects the left and right hemisphere so that seizures can't happen anymore. Lobotomies were just scrambling the brain randomly with an ice pick.
i saw a quote from an old booklet advertising lobotomies that showed a young woman before and after the procedure with the heading; “in some instances, the best that can be done for the family is to return the patient to them in an innocuous state, a veritable household pet.” and the subtitle directly below it referencing the images said; “simple schizophrenia patients make nice household pets after operation.”
just chilling how they could even say that about a person, not once, but twice on the same page.
oh my god.....😲😞😡
Really changes our view about the "good ol' times" eh?
Yeah, anybody who did these awful expiremants was evil. Freaking real life villains. This labotomy wasn’t even the only evil expirament they did.
@@appletherapy3492 Saying that they're "evil" is pretty childish.
Oh an you know for a fact the treated women were getting pounded left and right.. daughters… fucked up times
To anyone, enthralled or appalled by this subject, I recommend "My Lobotomy" by Howard Dully, who as a 12 year-old child was lobotomized by Walter Freeman because his stepmother found him "difficult." It's a devastating story told by a lovely man.
Okay I googled it and saw an interview with him plus a picture where it happened. Seeing this made me ultimately get very sick in my stomach and I feel like I'm about to vomit. Seeing a young kid who's life is just at the start with a very raw instrument currently directly in his brain, ripping it apart at random, and literally seeing him die at that moment made me so incredibly sick now...
I read that one right after I read "The Lobotomist" which is a biography of Martin Freeman and his efforts to make the ice pick lobotomy a mainstream procedure. It was a chilling combo.
Why does lobotomized sound like sexual harassment
Why does lobotomized sound like sexual harassment
@@enviousshade1770 that is just you...
It’s absolutely horrifying to imagine that if my lovely sister who suffers from schizophrenia was born a couple decades earlier, this could’ve happened to her
To be honest psychiatric wards still perform lobotomy just with chemicals rather than ice picks and they still mistreat patients
@@brandonalexander727 source?
@@montypython3014 When people can not take care of themselves or are seen as mentally incapable they are mistreated. In all sorts of places, both in old folks homes and psychiatric wards. Because even if they tried to tell anyone who does care they can never be trusted because of their condition. Who would anyone believe? The nut or "senile" nuts in the home, or the trained and respected staff? You might find it hard to swallow but it is sadly true. My own father was mistreated in such a place, we caught them by showing up unexpectedly. They had him in 5 point restraints in a wheelchair under the TV with no access to water and the room's temperature was in the 80s. This was in the same place he was 6 months earlier when he had all his faculties. He later had 2 strokes that sent him back there. They treated him completely differently when he was no longer able to speak out and snitch on them.
@@GamerLoggos i'm sorry that happened to your father. If it were as widespread a problem as the lobotomy was i think there would be evidence for it.
@@montypython3014 Perhaps it is widespread and just not documented as it should be or covered up. Many old people are tossed away with their family just walking away. The same goes for those in insane asylums where abuses ARE well documented and known about but not actually addressed. But at the end of the day even one occurrence is one too many in my opinion.
You can make a horror movie of this, leaving people shocked. Ending the movie with the text "Based on true treatment. Last treatment less then 50 years ago."
In my opinion this just proves not every doctor is out there to help you but enjoys torture.
Sucker punch is the name of a movie about this.
@@Sara-lm8zv yea but sucker punch isn't REALLY about it, it pretends it is to seem deep but its just an excuse to have a bunch of cute girls being badass in different situations, which is fine honestly
I was literally just thinking about this the entire idea behind the Lobotomy just sounds like a horror plot
many drs are legitimate paychopaths
I got chills just seeing those pictures. My head actually hurt when seeing the ice pick mushing the brain.
This should be considered a crime against humanity. It’s absolutely sick that this was considered reasonable to anyone and outrageous that this cruelty earned a noble prize.
It still performed today only in the most extreme cases
@@jacobstewart1950 yeah, but most time it's performed today they have advanced brain mapping to plan down to the nanometer where they are going to cut. Back then it was, "Oh, I think that's about 5 cm, let's go ahead and GIVE IT A LITTLE JIGGLE WIGGLE IN THAT BRAIN."
Jesus, thinking about the audacity of these doctors makes me physically ill.
It's called the Nobel Prize and not the Noble Prize, for a reason.
What about 800.000+ abortions a year? :o
I guess you should be forced to live with an extremely mentally ill patient then, in order to understand
.Saw an interview of a young man who's parents had him given one when he was a boy. He was apparently hyperactive. He calmed down, but at age 30 he said he felt nothing--no joy, no sorrow, no sympathy, no nothing.
With more brain you lose you also lose your personality
He'd be perfect for enlistment.
@@Zanelander yes u would
@@ReplyNotificationsMuted Dude I done been in. I feel no joy every day 😕
Well, to be honest, that's kind of how people on heavy medication feel too
One of the easiest 9s. We ARE our brain- their our physical “souls” if you wanna give it a name. Cutting into it is like cutting into your very being. Absolutely horrifying.
*they’re sorry about that
@@kellispees911 it’s okay kelli
This is what lots of people, especially religious people don’t understand… we’re a biological computer, there is no true spirit
@Ryan-in-a-box 1 i mean i would not say that no spirit exists with 100 percent certainty but i could see why someone would say that because the people claiming there is a spirit have the burden of proof and have failed miserably so i could see why someone would say there is no spirit because of all the complete failures over and over again.
Until there is extremely good evidence there is no reason to believe in such things but if you want to believe that then you be you along as it does not harm anyone.
@@gabebarbieri194 there's no real proof either way. for me, the idea of us just being organic robots seems.. cynical. i don't know, it sort of sucks the beauty out of things in my eyes. i prefer to believe in souls/spirits and natural goodness in the world and all that jazz :)
When the Soviets call something inhumane, I think it’s safe to say it’s pretty horrific.
Yeah
Yeah
That goes without saying
red scare
lol they were the first country to ban it, and it's not like every other world power hadn't done infinitely more horrific shit, on a larger scale, multiple times.
the idea that this procedure was still preformed in the 70's is chilling. there are victims of this procedure that are alive today.
Oh sh*t that's horrific! I keep forgetting how recent this torture happened.
Yes, I remember a kid about 19 - 20 years old. I was a photographer at a local night club and he was the singer of the band. He smoked weed and did coke. He got caught and I believe he got a few traffic tickets and went to court. The judge gave him 2 options: Prison or lobotomy. Needless to say, the next time I saw him, I was shocked. The life had been sucked out of him. He didn't laugh or smiled, he didn't recognize anyone... he was a robot. Sit, get-up, let's go, etc. Is that life? I will never forget him. A young very talented kid whose laughter lit up an entire room.
Years later, in the 80's, my own son was given the same choice but instead he asked to be able to move in with me (out of the country). We lost a generation to drugs but to lobotomy too!
@@m.bernal9540 that’s an intriguing yet extremely disturbing story crazy it was still happening 40 years agi
The Kennedys did this to their daughter JFKs sister rosemary Kennedy its a pretty f’ed story look it up. They basically fried her brain and left her in a asylum all alone no contact with any family because they were afraid she would embarrass the family name. That’s one of americas highly esteemed families for you.
@@m.bernal9540 I think the reason why lobotomy changed people so much was because of the trauma they went through. And it didn’t actually fix them, the people who went through all of this hid their mentali illnesses for obvious reasons. I don’t think anyone would want to experience that again
Freeman: “Lobotomies for everyone.”
Me: you first.
Freeman afterwards: "WaT WaS i dooing aGaIn?"
@@IntheBay85 "Brain hurt-e..."
Freeman's tombstone: "proudly prove that his lobotomy is safe to himself"
The moral of this story is... Blindly trust scientists and doctors. They're "experts".
@@mattstorm360 Lmao! This is what I almost commented, touche' my good human.
My grandmother’s sister had this done in the 40s as a teen. She was deemed “wild” - nowadays, she’d probably have been prescribed some medication or therapy. She got the lobotomy. Turned her into basically a living vegetable and she lived in a government funded facility for more than 70 years until her death in 2015. A waste of a life and a tragedy for a human who just needed some help (This was in Europe).
It's horrifying
I've seen enough heroin addicts born from pharmaceuticals to know that barely anything changed. Now you're just given this illusion of choice
@@psychoticdaizyproductions569 i know middle school must be blowing your mind rn but things have definitely changed since the day of the lobotomy, this practice nowadays would just be assault
@@psychoticdaizyproductions569 in fact its insane just how fast humans have moved. Its amazing tbh
@@jameswashere187 again. As I watch all the zombies shambles around born from pharmaceuticals. I disagree
In 2017, at 23 years old, I received electro shock therapy once a week for 3 months to help with my bipolar type 2 disorder. My doctor assured me it would cure me since my medicine had not been working adequately. Now at 30, I realize he just got a fat bonus whenever he reccommended and got patients to agree to the procedure. Anyway, for those 3 months and about year after, I felt like I was living in a fog, walking through life with no emotions, like it wasn't real. I dont remember much of anything from that time, other than a hollow, dead feeling, It wasn't even depression. I was just there. Not really alive but not really dead either. I was lucid enough after 3 months to say I no longer wanted it. Eventually I switched doctors, and was immediately put on medicine that has changed my life in wonderful, healthy ways. I still think those shock treatments changed me in a lasting way, though. i cannot imagine what would have happened if I had been alive during the time of the lobotomy. They would have done that for me instead, and I would have never had the chance to get real help like I did now.
damn
@ghostintheshelll When did I say it was? Interesting of you to invalidate what I went through, though. Very strange.
@ghostintheshelll that was a wild assumption to make. I know what i have suffered and how it destroyed mine, my kids, my family’s and others lives. I’m also aware of how terrible full blown mania is compared to my hypomania, and I can hardly imagine it and my heart has always hurt for those that must live with it. Literally nowhere in my original comment did I mention anything about how my suffrage was worse than other bipolar humans’ suffrage. I literally just told a story, and you made a poorly worded statement that made it seem like you were responding to something I had said in my post (that I hadn’t). I was perplexed. You’re being quite insensitive here. Good luck, though, to you as well.
Pro tip from someone who has a mental desease and suffered a similar fate in 2006. No one understarnds your brain 100%. Don't waste your time with "alternate medicine" and miraculous things. If the drugs and standard therapy don't work for you, search the patterns yourself. You will realise in time that you will figure it out better than most doctors do. That being said the standard medice is your best shot. New things are being developed all the time. The corporations have far more resources to figure it out how to solve any issues than any alternative care can dream of. If they are not making it its most likely because they tested it and figure it out that it was not worth it. Keep this in mind... might help you.
Type 2 is pretty bad though. They tend to have more frequent depressive episodes than type 1's like me.
My aunt was lobotomized in the 1930 for having an affair. MY grandfather a religious minister could nor live with the idea that his daughter was a sexual being and performed a lobotomy on the young woman. The result was a persom interned in a mental institution for the rest of her life without ever uttering one single word or recognizing anyone in the family. Think about how the medical comunity is still making experiments on the vulnerable to this day
She never cheated on her man again after said lobotomy, right?
In this regard, the operation was a full success.
@@epaminon6196 not cool dude
@@epaminon6196 Yes. If the same rules applied today, you wouldnt have been born
@John Wick
Now you know which tool to get her new guy for Christmas. 😉
@@ricoingles8322 why not?
My brother was a paranoid schizophrenic during the 60's on. Several times my parents were asked if they'd consider one for him. Mind you, my brother was not violent or destructive, he just really couldn't take care of himself and needed medication control. So glad they said no. It's lazy and barbaric.
I like these types of videos, keep them coming!
so are you in your seventies or something?
@@lanthan598 Why’s that matter lmfao?
@@nymvlt he is amazed that a old person knows how to use youtube comments or has some interest on older people
lol
The main problem after deinstitutionalization is keeping people on their meds so they don't become violent and destructive.
@@arch1107 😂 Why do humans act like age makes you a different species, is it really not common sense that people of all ages use a video sharing platform? is it really that outlandish that someone older can, omg, form a sentence?! it sounds like nonsense to me hahaha
Love how their idea of “cured” was the patient becoming a silent, drooling vegetable, which made it easier to deal with them in the asylum.
Boom… CURED!! 🙄
Agreed, though now they can just use drugs, handy when you have too many patients in a care home.
I mean what else would you have done back then?
People honestly look at this stuff with the thought process of a child versus an adult.
Sometimes you have to make hard decisions and sometimes the better good comes with downstairs
@@locklear308 and sometimes its just a load of bull , lobotomy is not a viable treatment method. You may as well just shoot the patient because you are not “curing” them, you are turning them into a drooling husk.
@@MrVlad12340 I didn't say it was viable now days. But at the time, the 30s and 40s, what else would you have done for someone?
Let me ask a different question.
Say right now, you and I traveled back to the 30s:
You opposed the treatment with your reasoning.
They say, "okay", but then ask you to care for said affected patients for either free or at a very low wage as they do not have much money.
Would you say yes?
Lmao
I met a senior who was lobotomized. Why? Because she was a teen-aged girl with a vaginal infection and she acted aggressively. The lobotomy ruined her life. You couldn't have a conversation with her. She would wander around in a half vegetated state. On the cruelty scale, I give it a 10, right up there with the experiments the Nazis did on humans.
As a nursing student in the 1970’s as part of my psychiatric rotation I dealt with old lobotomy patients and those treated by strong electroshock and with antipsychotics such as Thorazine. Disturbingly, even those treated with Thorazine had permanent brain damage evident by shuffling gaits, poor cognitive skills. Mood-altering drugs of any kind, whether recreational or prescribed can cause lifelong mental changes. Great video!
I was given quitapine (seroquel) for a brief episode of acute psychosis, was told to keep taking it for years just Incase. I know for sure that had some lasting effects because I never had restless legs syndrome before that as well as several other issues
Was also given Thorazine for a few days
When I was suggested electroshocktherapy due to my depression not improving with SSRIs I started lying to my doctors about my condition to dodge that bullet.
@@Lilybun The current “electric shock“ therapy is done today it’s not like what you see in horror movies. It’s sad that comes to mind whenever you hear of the therapy. It is extremely effective for depression that does not respond to other therapies.
@@TheJoeSwanon I agree, even in 1978 when I was a student, electroshock therapy had gotten a bad rap and was just being phased back with much milder shocks for proper treatment.
I think something missing from this analysis is that lobotomies & many other “treatments” for mental illness of the time were not meant to improve patients’ quality of life. They were meant to make patients more compliant.
And this problem is not relegated to the past. In the mental healthcare industry, intensive programs often focus on making patients more tolerable and complaint to authority. Things like restraints, sedatives, and compliance-based behavioral training are all common practices forced on mentally ill or developmentally disabled patients without informed consent.
Geeze- where do you live?
And where are we seeing a push for compliance from the very same historically corrupt government and science fields🧐🧐
Staymadbaby G ding ding ding we have a winner! Who do we trust anymore nowadays. This isn’t isolated to the US, it’s not feasible
@@number1fool that was kinda rude and unnecessary to ask
@@number1fool "no way can this happen in my first-world save haven! im sure it must have happened in some poor country"
The whole idea is the equivalent of saying, “oh no, the bathroom faucet won’t stop leaking! better burn down the entire bathroom and plumbing system so it stops.”
THIS THIS THIS THIS AAAAAL THIS. The irony is by the 1950s the natzi had developed (relatively) safe medications for a lot of medical problems. Including mental health problems. the research was fairly sound and (ironicly) the medications stupidly gentle. I think some even published in journals etc. But sure lets napalm the house despite everything....w-t-f?
@@gorkskoal9315 1950s? The nazis? What?
Even apart from the fact that the nazis' go-to solution for disabilities seems to have been gas.
@@gorkskoal9315 I dont think allied powers burnt down nazi inventions
They stole them and discarded inventions that were useless
@@gorkskoal9315 The Nazi's didn't have anything "gentle" or "sound". They were wackos. THEY would have benefited from lobotomies. Wise up.
What's something cannibals and vegetarians have in common?
They both like vegetables
It's chilling that a lot of high profile figures did this to their family members like how the Kennedys lobotomized Rosemary. The most disturbing thing has to be how carefree the "surgeons" were:
"We made an estimate on how far to cut based on how she responded." When Rosemary began to become incoherent, they stopped."
“Lobotomy as a cure for Alzheimers”
ah yes, destroying the thing that thinks to help with thinking
As if removing my roof can help prevent leaks.
@@arya31ful nope, its like destroying the foundation, the wholr house breaks down and falls but hey! the roof is intact and it doesnt break so there aint no leaking under the roof. problem solved
Can't forget things if there's nothing to forget!
@@elcuy3544 💀💀💀🤣🤣
@@saphrone9749 Can't have leak when you don't even have house in the first place.
Simply genius
No matter how often I hear about the history of the lobotomy, I still shiver at the atrocity of it. It's amazing what we are willing to do to people who are different from us. I'm so happy this isn't a widespread practice anymore.
as a species we should evolve, sadly most of the time evolution proves that it can be ass or a god send
@@perturabo149 tell me about it. I am so lucky im born today, we all are. We have the same chances of this life as living in the medival ages and that's the last time I wanna be born in
@Deborah Hearne like what ? i am curious ?
@@temutemacular not exactly,medival ages was probably the lowest we were
and by evolution i meant actually evolution,there is some animals that can't live longer than 1 year because of post nut clarity,i am talking about the male octopus
or that one pig or hog that literally has a pair of horns that grows to the point that it breaks his skull and simply died because of it
or the kiwi bird that has to put a egg of almost its size with the same exact equipment, literally imagine giving birth to a baby half of your size with the same size equipment
female hyenas and there proto peniths and they give birth though that and the baby or her can die thanks to it
i could be here all day but the point is,it can happen to us but on a sociality level
How do you feel about being forced to get an injection today?
I watched a documentary on a man named Howard Dully that had an MRI showing the brain damage he suffered after having a lobotomy as a 12 year old done by Freeman. He was just a bit unruly and needed support but instead his parents sent him to an asylum ending eventually with the lobotomy. No surprises it didn't help him. I think if the doctors don't really care about the patients then things go terribly wrong.
The doctor that discovered Lithium can help with some mental disorders grew up in an institution where his father was a doctor. He roamed the grounds speaking to the patients and saw them as friends. His dad came back from WW1 with PTSD and he was a POW in WW2 so cared deeply about his patients and empathized with them. Makes a difference when the doctor actually cares and is not trying to put on a show.
The problem with institutions for people with mental illness is that those places do not treat the illness. Instead they medicate the patients to keep them passive and compliant.
lithium has terrible side-effects. but it helped me to get out of a big hypo-mania episode which lasted one month. but now I just go with sertraline and stopped taking it (I didn't tell my doctor about it yet, but the side-effects are too bad and I regained enough control, I didn't want to fuck other systems, if I relapse into hypo-mania, I'll take it again for a time, can't use that shit for prolonged time, its too terrible, we need something better), but the SSRIs is being enough to keep everything stable (for how long, who knows...)
@@colincampbell767 " Instead they medicate the patients to keep them passive and compliant." lobotomy was prescribed to asylums to solve their overcrowding problem I guess. that's a way of going, just kill off 15% of the patients, problem solved
"doctors" those were butchers
@@monad_tcp I know Lithium can have problems. The doctor that 'discovered' it had a patient pass away and he went into a depression himself. He was the man that had been a POW and was raised in an institution. It took a long time before he would try to use it again because he was scared to harm anyone but it helped a lot of people. I hope you speak to your doctor and get all the help you need. Mental health issues suck. Sending you much support 😊
On a scale of 1 to 9, this is a solid 11. Especially when you consider the criticisms of the procedure at the time and the reckless abandon in how they were performed.
It's plainly difficult to see how those with mental illnesses were treated and views at the time
The very nature of the lobotomy as a medical procedure requires the patient to almost certainly be unable to receive it voluntarily, as you can't get informed consent from basically anyone who ended up getting it, let alone be experimented on. I've also heard of people being sentenced to get one due to repeat criminality. This makes it a 9 for sure. Should be higher honestly.
Ive read that most adult people who received a lobotomy were placed under guardianship. Back in the days (and more recently too I guess), you didn't have to be critically ill to be deemed mentally unable to care for yourself. A simple doctor's note was required. The same doctor who would perform your lobotomy would be the one telling your family that you are unfit for decisions, taking away your right of consent (you may see how it is a loophole if you are facing a doctor in dire need of test subjects). The same doctor could also be bribed more easily than a room full of peers (which was required for a bigger procedure, to asses costs. Hospitals were a business after all).
Family members were not always given a true explanation of what the procedure entailed or it was described as a miraculous pain free miracle small surgery. It was not visible from the outside, which was a "plus" for the surgeon. He could say whatever he liked, the family would not be able to really check how barbaric the procedure is. this is also why the lack of drilling in the skull, hair shaving, big scars... was a significant point to "sell" the procedure to families of patients.
This procedure was also even more unethical on today's standards as a lot more conditions were considered as an illness. Being LGBT was one of them. Hysterics and "sexual promiscuity" were also a very gendered diagnosis, for which women were sent to the asylum (along with your legal and physical autonomy being taken away) for absolutely no fucking reason other than "they voiced an opinion and I didnt like that".
EDIT : okay I misunderstood, see comment below. My points still stand haha
@@p4ngolin disagrees but agrees
Yeah folks, I misunderstood that they meant you had to operate on people who were ALREADY unable to consent, which I agree with.
My bad. English isn't my first language. I got my wires crossed somehow.
all people should have bunkers to protect them from shit like this. Violation of property rights should be punished by life imprisonment.
@@p4ngolin at some point in time and space wires crossed => lobotomy. 😧😧😧 I got shivers just thinking about it in those terms
“What’s that? Your son won’t sit still in school? Don’t worry, I’ll just shove icepicks through his eye sockets directly into his brain. That’ll fix him right up!”
Worked on my little timmy like a charm. He does his skit where he behaves like his 2 yr self all day which is pretty cute for a 41 yr old.
@@sailorgaijin8838 💀💀💀💀
Now we just give them meth 🤣
@@icummins1806 cocaine
Hello my fellow warframe gamer
-Fun Fact- Fact: Rosemary Kennedy (JFK's sister) had some minor mental health issues. Her father, Joe Kennedy arranged a lobotomy for her in 1941, when she was 23 years old.
She spent the rest of her life institutionalised, and unable to speak.
The Kennedy family were able to keep the lobotomy a secret until 1987.
The Kennedy clan pretty much stopped talking about Rosemary for over 60 years, until her death in 2005. They still don't talk about her.
R.I.P. 🙏
She was absolutely beautiful as well. It’s a damn shame he did that to her.
Wait I thought the Kennedy siblings didn’t know and once they found out they created laws and stuff to help those with mental illnesses
@@emrod9577 yup
And JKF got one from a bullet.
@@DrDelon John K Fennedy
This is terrifying as I have anxiety and autism, and my family considers me "weird." If I had lived in this time period, I likely would have had a labotomy.
@@johneeeemarry34 The time period in question was less than a hundred years ago. It isn't some medieval procedure based on superstition or dogmatic reliance on ancient Greek/Roman texts concerning "bodily humors." It's an example of how a bogus "treatment" of "troublesome" individuals can quickly gain currency even in a modern environment.
Good.
@@sauerkrautvonbraun4590 ... and we can see how there are plenty of persons who would still jump at quackery to "treat" persons they consider inconvenient.
@@IsmailofeRegime no doubt. Get rid of goyim
@@sauerkrautvonbraun4590 I was going to say it is the sort of mentality that led to Nazism, but you would take that as a compliment.
When boomers say “ADHD didn’t exist back in my day!” Yeah this is why. Even though lobotomy eventuallt died out, the stigma behind mental health and treatment probably lingered for a while. You either pretended you didn’t have ADHD or go get some weird dangerous treatment for it.
Same with lgbt+ people, no we always existed, but a lot of the time we would be imprisoned, beaten or killed so it was generally a good idea to keep it a secret, now it's more safe (still not completely but it's better than it was) to be out so more people feel safe and comfortable coming out
Ikr 🥲 it’s so sad
Yea, or they d just assume it s a hyperactive kid and that s it
@@alexturner774 "We"? No, only a few people in which you cannot say "we" to.
It’s not mental it’s adhd is a neurotype
I had a craniotomy about a decade ago.
I was in Florida seeing a band I barely knew with a friend. This friend was also my boss from work at this point.
I was not inebriated, though I had a single beer by the time the 2nd band was taking the stage.
I went to the restroom. I remember washing my hands.
Suddenly I woke up a week later.
I had an emergency craniotomy which was needed to remove blood pooling around my brain itself.
I had so many wild and weird mental "blips" post surgery it was wild.
I would frequently ignore food on the left side of my plate.
The prospect of paperwork continuing on the other side of the same paper was mind boggling for some reason.
It took me 8 months in the hospital and another 6 of at home care to learn to pick up my right foot when I walked.
It was an absolute horror show.
While a lobotomy is obviously different, when I consider the state my brain was in post surgery and the passing similarities during recovery I find myself genuinely grateful for being in much more medically literate world.
For the most part.
How are you now? Are there are lingering effects? I'm sorry you had to go through that
@@dynamicpenguin55 thanks dude 👍 I'm a functioning member of society again at the least.
My gait has always been kind of odd, so my vague shuffle normally goes unnoticed. My occasional lapses in memory are brief and almost always unimportant stuff (eg: going to the store 3 times in a day because I my brain refuses to remember that I need laundry detergent)
That said I started having seizures last year which I'm now medicated for.
I asked a few of my doctors if there could be a correlation between the seizures and the craniotomy, but all of them have essentially said "probably not, but there's no way it helps."
Beyond that I think that I'm about as recovered as I'm ever going to be.
The gnarly scar is a great conversation starter though, and I get a good look at the pins and screws anytime I have x-rays done, which also reveals the outline of the square they removed to get at my brain.
Lucky to be alive for sure.
@Deborah Hearne United States. Florida back then Wisconsin now.
Hey man, just want to say that you get better and better in your life.
Such a drill you are enduring!
Keep walking!
@@batinimagus thanks dude! I do my best to push forward when I can.
1930's doctors: "Hey so you know how war veterans have permanent severe psychological and physical issues as a result of the life altering brain damage they received from their war injuries? Well, what if we did that on purpose, and call it a medical treatment?"
Other 1930's doctors: "Genius"
That’s straight up what this reminds me of, doing a lobotomy can fuck someone up so hard that i eats away at parts of their skull and brain afterwords if infected, simular to how mannered soldiers would get after intense war. Like to the point where you’d need to get a mask made for that part of your face because your actual face now scares children. It’s messed up
That is essentially how laser eye surgery came to be. A nearsighted child was in an accident which broke his glasses, and shards of glass were embedded in his eye. After removing the shards and allowing the eye to heal, he reported his vision was clearer than before the accident. That led to keratotomy, where incisions were made to the cornea to correct (well, improve) vision after healing. Eventually leading up to using a laser to sculpt the cornea into the desired shape.
The difference was that mechanical functions like focusing light are much easier to understand. And the folks doing eye surgery were careful to investigate and evaluate all the negative outcomes (not just positive) from the surgery while it was experimental, before giving it the OK. It's possible that some good could have come from precision lobotomies (much like how we kill off cancerous tumors with precisely directed radiation, or amputate a gangrenous limb). But the introduction of the generalized procedure to medicine was so botched that any genuine research into anything similar is pretty much untouchable now.
It's unfair to put it like that.
So the whole "wide disapproval" part went over your head?
Jesus this is like randomly pulling legs (or I guess damaging pads) on a CPU... *edit by a 4 year old, so there's no consistency in performance and also it's not logged anywhere for good measure.
Rewatching this, I'm surprised you didn't talk about Rosemary Kennedy's Lobotomy, honestly that specific lobotomy is one of the most haunting ones to me, considering it was performed by Dr. Watts and that her life prior to the lobotomy was fairly well recorded
This makes me think Freeman was a narcissist, or at least had narcissistic tendencies. However, the tendency of the professionals to treat mentally ill patients as less than equals is more likely the real roots of such barbarism. This procedure clearly rates as a 9.
He was insane and belonged in a prison camp, just like the people who introduced circumcision to the uncircumcised USA 120 years ago.
@@gregorymalchuk272 No, he was very sane. Insane means he is unable to verify reality from hallucinations. But being sane makes it so much worse.
Quacks love invasive procedures.
"I'd rather have a free-bottle in front of me,
than a pre-frontal labotomy."
Exactly this. No one can convince me these doctors didn't know lobotomy wasn't actually helping anyone. It was never about curing the mentally ill patients, it was about making them "convenient".
this one is off the scale unethical, 9+ it's basically killing someone without killing their body. Surviving doctors who performed them should be charged with crimes against humanity.
Tried as trolls
@@hatefulgaming1800 trolololololololololololololololol
Humans are actual trash.. the fact that the "procedure" fascinated some of these doctors is sickening
@@grantfreeman5327 nah bro they tried their actions and told the people what happens if you did that thats why our doctors dont do that
I cannot agree more but the fact about these actually happening we learned a big deal out of them. I assume no one had done them before and to think that perhaps it would solve some of humans problems. I don't think it was done for wrong doing, humans do cruel things but can often times be realized after the deeds were already done.
I felt absolutely stunned when you said as young as 4. My little sister turned 4 last month. The idea of lobotomies has always been greatly upsetting to me, especially considering that almost every member of my family that i know would have been a candidate, especially the women since it seems women were targeted more. My mother, my father, my grandfather, me, my older sisters, my younger brother. We all have a lot of issues and with how easy it was to justify it then we all would have been likely targets. Thinking about it now makes me think of the families of those people, of a kid as young as 4 who let it happen, who signed consent for it to happen and i wonder how they could have lived with their choices. I would burn down the enitre world to protect my sister.
This procedure has always terrified me.
I mean, a lot of old procedures terrify me, but this is definitely top of the list. And the fact that all these were “okay” and legal, is even more terrifying.
Yo you should of seen how really old timers "cured" head aches. Literally with a hammer and chisel to pop a hole in the head to 'release the pressure'
What even worse is major european nations and USA allow this until soviet union call this out as "violence against human", which is very obvious but how could the other nations see the obvious but keep on allowing this procedure is weird.
It's what happens when you mess with something you don't understand. In the Victorian England it was in vouge to take spoild milk and mix it with Borax. It would fix the texture, look, smell, and taste alright. The person who came up with it was a child care celebrity. Until there was an epidemic of big swollen bloated bellies and kids painfully dieing left and right in UK and USA.
@TheEvilStickman I was diagnosed with GAD once. Honestly don't believe it actually exists. It's what doctors diagnose when they don't actually understand a condition.
It was often encouraged and advertised too. Truly devastating and horrifying.
Nurse: Doctor ! The patient is having trouble with his brain !
Doctor: Hmmm, if there is no brain, there is no problem ?
Doctor receives Nobel price ! What a genius :D
Thank god these people weren’t cardiologists.
As my veterinarian would say whenever he gave our pug a shot, "No brain, no pain."
Hmm well it appears you cannot suffer medical or psychological problems if you are not alive. We have found a Nobel prize winner
@@Soundbrigade Cardiologists tried that in the ‘70s and ‘80s, actually. Some took out patients’ hearts and replaced them with artificial ones. Obviously, it never got far.
@@5roundsrapid263 I get it that there are "machines" that for very short periods keep the blood circulating that's definitely not a long term solution. Btw, my pacemaker worked for 12 years before the battery started to dwindle.
Fun fact: because he won a nobel, this doctor is actually seen as a respectable figure in portugal. at egas moniz's alma mater, there is a building named after him, the road of the hospital is av. egas moniz and the teachers will lecture you that "he invented the leucotomy, not the lobotomy! And we will now not get into the details but he was not that bad" while the first part is technically true, the leucotomy wasn't less brutal in the ammount of long term brain damage. I guess not going through the eye socket though, is a plus. It always rubbed me the wrong way that, in an effort to justify still glorifying his work, these professionals stood in front of neuroscience students (some of them doctors themselves) and really tried to sweep under the rug the terror of what he had done. Of course you can't deny that his work was a major step in the field of neurosurgery. Doesn't mean it wasn't brutal and cruel.
Ele inventou a angiografia que talvez fosse suficiente para ganhar um nobel.
Ou seja ele não foi um carniceiro como implicas no teu post, ele de facto foi um cientista bastante respeitável e pioneiro na sua área.
@@paulom8804 those things aren't mutually exclusive
@Lujan I'm pretty sure gender studies came from activism and partially from the women's rights movement.
@Lujan John Money was a vile man and NOBODY sane respects him.
Where was he burried? I’ve been looking for a nice place to piss.
I have learned a lot about how people like me (those who are mentally ill) were treated very inhumanely in my psychology class. This covers a lot of the bases. Thank you for educating others on this barbaric practice.
As someone with OCD , I really cannot express how much I appreciate being born in an era where medical science has drastically improved. I had it way worse as a kid but it has drastically improved as I matured, almost gone away, where if I was born in the era of lobotomies, an interaction with adult me says a lobotomy is the last thing I’d need, meanwhile how drastically diagnosed I was as a kid, I would have been highly qualified for a lobotomy, and also with fear that of my dad was born in a relative time period, he probably would have induced me in it.
It’s almost as if when you were a kid your body and brain were going through a ton of hormonal & overall physical changes every day and they stopped when you were an adult. You don’t have OCD. You grew up.
You dont have OCD
I have severe depression, & I know exactly how you feel, cuz I feel the same way. I would have DEF been sent to one of those horrible places if I'd been born in another time...
And sadly now we go backwards changing sexes (sorta) and letting people claim they are non-binary or some other perversion.
"Making a Killing" The untold story of psychotropic drugging. The cost to society is staggering side effects, premature death and going through life in an altered state!
Great video PD! I worked as a Chaplain in a large state-owned psychiatric hospital where frontal lobotomy procedures had been performed on patients during its clinical heyday. The patients who underwent the procedure were not cured of their various psychosis, but rather were made into brain-damaged versions of their former selves with psychosis intact but fogged. We had a saying amongst the staff, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy."
ua-cam.com/video/NIrtZaPrwSk/v-deo.html
@@marcg210 Thanks! I haven't heard that song for AGES!
As a Portuguese I was shocked to discovered that so many names of our history had a part on this horrible procedure. They don't talk about this nor mention it in our history classes when speaking about Egas Moniz :(
Can relate.
I live in America, but i don't go to college and they never talked about this ether i believe
Welp they didn't lie in your classes... they just omitted to talk about why he was famous.
I'm not saying it is deliberate but if everyone knew how often "the science" ended in horrific outcomes it wouldn't be as easy to use it for compliance!
@@feeblereptilian Look up "The Lobotomobile"... You'll find we in the U.S. have had a tendency to go a bit "overboard" on many things that have proven less than stellar over the years.
Unfortunately, no... The Germans of such an era as would've created the lobotomy, were more interested in simply getting rid of "undesirable people" rather than curing them of the "undesirability", SO they didn't invent this particular flavor of barbaric. ;o)
It's horrific to think that if i had been born 70 years earlier this would have been done for me. I stayed in inpatient for over a year, and there's no way that I could have gone that long and been that troublesome without getting lobotomised. Such a disgusting, barbaric 'treatment'.
The lobotomy was created near the same time that the nuclear bomb was created. How’d we learn to slit an atom but we didn’t know sticking an ice pick in the brain was bad
And having a different amount of melanin and liking a person of the same sex can get you prosecuted or institutionalized. The duality of man.
I wonder this too. Like how can we have airplanes floating in the sky in the 50s but we couldnt have a portable phone but they contacted the planes or whatever. Sometimes I wonder if it's a conspiracy 🤣
@@volix17990 I mean the match was invented AFTER the lighter so take that for what you will.
@@joneli5888 LOL 😂
@@deltanize9618 Don't tie it up to politics I beg you
They really just ran with it, without thinking of the intricacies of the brain. I'm a bit surprised that they weren't spoken over more often, instead it became a more mainstream procedure! Makes me glad for more modern therapy, great video PD!
Medical procedures until really recently have just been totally fucked. It's like no one gave a shit about people's wellbeing until about 30 years ago.
They ran with it because at the time there were no good treatments for severe mental illness and lobotomies “worked”
If by worked you mean it made em quiet, then yeah…
@@TheGoldenFluzzleBuff Worse than lobotomies?
@@TheGoldenFluzzleBuff are you sure about that?
@@TheGoldenFluzzleBuff How so? (Not asking out of doubt but out of curiosity + I don’t wanna click off the video to look it up)
Although it seems obvious today, let's give a shout out to all the doctors and scientists of the era who realized what a terrible idea this was. I take some comfort in knowing there were at least some reasonable people in those days.
The same goes on nowadays. There are people speaking up against questionable measurements and procedures. But they get harassed, lose their jobs and licences and slandered in the media for not following the political and public agenda.
In those days? Dude, decent people have existed throughout time. You act as if "those days" was really that long ago. 😆
@@thegreattotemaster do not
@@BlackCroft666 KKona
ive watched a video of a lobotomy, and it is stomach wrenching. no matter how bad you think this procedure is, you are underestimate how horrific it truly is. watching them hammer an ice pick into someone's eye socket was the most disgusting thing i have ever watched, and i've never been the type of person to shy away from gore.
Absolutely unbelievable that this has been practiced until the 1980s. We really have to be extremely grateful for the achievements of modern psychology. Being able to be treated like we are today with Mental health issues like PTSD, Depression etc is really something to be extremely thankful for.
And even then, it's no surprise how heavily stigmatized it is (even inside the medical community) to treat or even mention having one of these (doctors never recommending psychologists to people with visible anxiety/depression/ptsd being one of the many examples) and even psychologists themselves having a fair share of psychologists that believe if you suspect you have something, then you're lying or that you will use that diagnosis to be cruel/excuse yourself (this recorded by many patients, not just a single case).
Even with all of the current achievements, the stigma towards mental illness still prevails and *really* needs to be dropped if we want to ever advance in the field (like for example, taking the time to ACTUALLY spend any research on ADD/ADHD in anything more than white male (cis) boys.)
@@SiffrinISAT psychology is a bullshit pseudo science that favors subjectivity over objective reason, and regularly discards scientific method
They are still performed to this day
Most modern treatment you speak of is simply a doctor feeding you drugs until your problem goes away. There wouldn't be a 'mental health crisis' in first world countries if we'd mode any progress.
Nazi scientists, junior ! They actually could do "chemical lobotomies" they dip a swab in fluid and put it up your nose to the hole that provides access to the brain cavity.
Hmm... kind of in the same place they stick the swabs for the covid test !
Well, once in the brain cavity it can eat away the tissue of the brain.
You should check out that Thalamide or whatever it's called. Caused kids to be born with birth defects. Short limbs !!!
Also the fact that they wanted to adjust the procedure specifically outside of hospitals with less supervision, sterilization, and proper surgical tools. These were sadistic people that wanted to get away with doing awful things to as many vulnerable people as possible.
Nina Dees nuts, lol
Yep. Purely a sadistic powertrip for doctors who, at the time, had near unquestionable power over their patients.
Made abundantly clear by how the "doctor" halted an operation for a photo op and showed off by doing a double barrel lobotomy. Disgusting.
It was also used as a way to subjugate women into obedience and submission. If you were too vocal as a woman you risked getting labeled as “hysterical” thus risking a lobotomy. It’s really not talked about enough how women were the largest group of victims of lobotomy
Lobotomies we’re essentially done for the benefit of the career, not the patient. Not much work to do when your patient is a vegetable who can take care of their basic needs.
I remember learning about the different lobotomy procedures in college. When the professor demonstrated the transorbital technique people were so disturbed that some needed to go outside and get fresh air. I gave that lesson a serious WTF and gave thanks they weren't performed anymore. Absolutely horrifying.
Well lets see: have schitzofrania? how about beer right to the noes! yeeeeah! or lets try a shock collar! yeeeah. wait not dumb enough? how about comatose ever few days waking up with a hang over.
@@gorkskoal9315 I've got schizocalfornia. It's caused by living in California. Beer up the nose helps.
Lobotomies and asylums are my newest morbid fascination/hyperfixation and i started looking into it more online and through books and its awful. If i lived in that time, by the time i was around 8 i would have gotten a lobotomy, i can see why the doctors would think this is a fix considering mental illnesses correlation with the frontal lobe. This surgery both terrifies and intrigues me, so much so i bought a book on it called "The Lobotomist's Wife" if you are interested in more psychological fiction i would look it up, i enjoy it so far. I feel awful for the people who had to go through this, especially children.
When even the former Soviet Union calls The Lobotomy procedure barbaric, you know it's fucked up. I'd give it a 9 on the scale, no way would I trust anyone doing that procedure on my family members.
I mean USSR had great scientists, doctors I’m not surprised.
Yeah, the communists never had the eugenics craze the capitalist west had. They were much harsher in terms of their legal system, but gentler with their medical system.
@@deadmeme8011 I mean, it’s hard to have a eugenics craze when you need literally every single person alive you can just to scrape your economy into something sort of functional. Dabbling in eugenics is a luxury at that point.
I mean, the USSR called it barbaric after using it a fair bit themselves. They just jumped on the bandwagon everyone else was on when the criticism started to pick up.
@@networknomad5600 The second sentence is simply not true. The Soviet Union banned lobotomies in 1950, 17 years before America did.
The fact that the doctor would perform this procedure on two patients simultaniously gives away that even he doesn't do it because he thinks it's healing patients, but because he's a megalomanic psychopath that enjoys this feeling of power.
or they only care about money
*cough cough *
faucci
*cough cough *
Robert Liston did something similar! He thought you could speed run amputations 😬😬😬
It truly shows the lack of seriousness towards his job and patients.
@@zacariasnelson5753 these other doctors sound exactly like him too and hes been planted on a pedestal as an expert.
“This is a surgical tool. This is an ice pick.”
Jesus Christ.
I said that so many times during this "Jesus Christ!" Horrible.
Icepick lobotomy.
Well sure, because they can charge more for one of them.
And if used properly by a professional, it can also be a surgical tool.
As an Autistic person, I am very disturbed by this point in history. I can't even imagne being born around that time. And the fact that anyone could receive this horrible surgery is disturbing.
I remember learning about this when I was like 13, I was a pretty unfit kid who was abused at gome and bullied at school and this made lost all faith on people. I cried while watching this videos, it is genuinely one of the most disgusting things I've ever read about. Humans can be so cruel it's unreal.
It’s really sad, makes you look at life with disgust. It’s all about making a buck for some people, no matter the cost.
*home
same situation as you. But i have the solution. Give everyone steel bunkers/tanks and guns to protect themselves.
"this is what they do if you don't behave." yep ok i'll sit still.
it is unreal, but there are good people out there and the world is changing, just hang in there mate, people are also working very hard to change the scene because of people like you we have a hope for the future
My great aunt was diagnosed with schizophrenia, given a lobotomy, and institutionalized her whole life. As if that was not bad enough, it was most likely that she was misdiagnosed, like myself (bipolar early on) and others in my family who are actually on the Autism Spectrum (Aspergers mostly).
The things we do to “fix” each other because we are different, and different makes people uncomfortable, is just insane. Literally.
Polar bears both ways
@@bobbydazzler4389 w h a t
I've read that sooo many people are misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder and then it's even harder to get the diagnosis changed because they think it's your bipolar disorder talking. My sister was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and I still wonder if she was misdiagnosed too
Oh you're different? Put holes in his head.
Poor Apple fanbois....
I've been diagnosed all over the place from bi polar, magic depressive, ADHD... Looks to be autism as my teen daughter was diagnosed with all my same issues. Hated the SSRIs...
My great grandma was very likely autistic and was given a lobotomy. She was in a mental health institute for almost all of her life after my grandad was born. 3 generations later I'm here and autistic and very horrified at how she was treated. Man science is insane!
My mum used to love visiting her though, apparently she was a very lovely woman despite everything.
I'm horrified that if I'd been born 10 years earlier i could be a statistic. SSRIs were bad enough.
God, as a person trying to raise up for an autism diagnosis, this hits hard- truly had how mental health has been abused.
This is why "trust the science" is such a horrifying and dystopian thing to say. Science is all about distrust. Show convincing evidence, and disprove or expand prior conclusions. That is antithetical to trust. Trust is complacency.
These are inhumane people. Science is a methodology to know the truth. It is the people who're at fault here. Not science.
We're as fucked as Ethnic minorities when they start gassing people again.
Remember that.
I have fibromyalgia and chronic migraines.... This is just chilling how many people had to undergo this procedure because it was the only 'treatment' left.
My great aunt was lobotomized and subsequently instutionalized for her anxiety disorder, she died two years later. My grandmother told me about it in tears after witnessing one of my worst panic attacks, she said her father probably knew it was hereditary because his mother (my great great grandmother) most likely had it but he was more worried about his image than his daughter.
You KNOW something is effed up when even a Soviet Russia official says "Hey, bro. That's like... not ok..."
Exactly. Soviets have conducted horrible experiments themselves but if even they denounce a procedure for its cruelty you know its bad.
Surprisingly the USSR was more progressive on a lot of fronts that the West. I don't know where people get the idea that the USSR was bad at science or bad at "human rights". They just never pretended to be a democracy, unlike America.
@@MultiSciGeek Russia always had a reputation of being barbarians. That's how other countries always portrayed it.
@@blinded6502 They mostly potrayed it that way because they were the "enemy", no gov wants their civilians to feel neutral about the enemy, soviet Russia sure did some horrible stuff but saying the western side didn't is BS.
@@Tacticaviator7 Well, this reputation had existed even before the Union
"I'm gonna poke the brain with a stick"
"We gonna do it carefully, right?"
"...."
"We are gonna do it carefully.... right?"
Just Jimmy it around in there, slap on some duct tape and boom, good as new
DUAL WIELD!!
How about you do not AT ALL?
Upon researching family & local history, I started to read patient admittance documents from the late 1800 to early 1900's and the reason for them being declared insane were appalling. Some reasons for incarceration were: Alcoholism, Depression, Senility, Old Age, Promiscuity, Self Abuse (masturbation), Mania (excited, overactive or distracted).
"A patient cured, is a customer lost."
- medical doctor with a minor in business management
*dentist flashback*
Business and fianance turned med student.
I think you’re onto something here 😂🤦🏻♂️
This is just facts of the medical field especially big pharma companies
Having only worked retail so far, good. I should become a doctor and seek to cure every last patient. I don’t ever want to see them again 😂 if I do then I failed.
@@TH3C001 yes
It is hard to understand how someone could think this was a good idea. I can understand in extreme circumstances, there is an understanding that a little bit of harm is okay because there's no alternative. Arbitrarily cutting around in the brain for something like ADD though? Even if you ignore the damage it does to their personality, I find it hard to believe that doctors would be willing to risk a 15% chance of death so that you could fix something that could entirely be treated with therapy or even ignored all together in the worst case. I'd give the original inception like a 5-6 since they really had no idea what to do about mental health, and a 9 for the lobotomy.
It'd simply a product of the time. The brain was a complete mystery and while doing it now seems crazy, I can see how someone back then may think parts of the brain aren't needed like a neural appendix. As far as the death rate, 15% is high by modern standards but back then death was much more frequent and accepted and thus callusing where common sense may kick in and say "this is not worth the risk". All that said, those are good excuses for the 30s and 40s. After WW2 we learned tons and tons about the brain so this continuing into the 50s and 60s is kind of crazy.
it comes naturally if you consider that for centuries prior the established idea among the medical community had been that mental illness is caused by the pressure inside the skull being too high.
As a result as far back as the bronze age shamans had tried to "cure" people by cutting holes in their skulls to relieve said pressure.
Most "patients" of course were indeed cured, technically, because dead people don't have mental conditions.
That practice had mostly gone out of favour by the middle ages, but the idea lingered.
We used to burn left-handed people as possessed, so I honestly can't say it surprises me.
@@jwenting Trepanation is still used when there is excessive pressure on the brain, which is an actually existing problem.
To add to what was said by @Michael_O you have to remember the first antibiotics weren't developed until the middle of WW2 and didn't become widely available in many places until after the war. That meant that any infection was often fatal. Pneumonia today is serious but survivable, in the 30's and before it was virtually a death sentence. Even as lat as 1950 1 in 20 people would die between birth and the age of 15 in (as a quick example), Canada. Much of the rest of the world was similar, and there where a few older people who could still remember the days when that had been closer to or in excess of 50%.
Also until very recently things like ADD where considered very severe, more than enough grounds for padded rooms and straight jackets. Mental illness in general was treated as more like a terminal illness in severity.
I'm so fucking glad I didn't grow up in that era. I suffer from General Anxiety Disorder, so I would absolutely have been one of those victims. This video made my skin crawl.
My daughter is bipolar so I would have probably been highly encouraged to do this to her.
Good
Ye but the further in the past u live the effects of global warming and light pollution becomes less so u would see more stars at night
Ye but the further in the past u live the effects of global warming and light pollution becomes less so u would see more stars at night
Same. That, paired with Panic Disorder (random panic attacks) and Major Depressive Disorder, I wouldn’t have lived long back then.
And now, geometry dash disproves that this is the worst; it has its benefits
9, hard nine. To paraphrase a critic from the time, "they make caring for the patient easier, but so does killing them". It's equivalent to death for many, just a destruction of who you are.
@@thegreattotemaster still unethical and damaging to the paciente increasing her fatality rate
What sickens me even more, as different sexuality was seen as mental illness it was treated with electroshocks and lobotomy... Patients were often admited against their will. It was beyond cruel.
Yeah it's a physical illness lol
@@Papa_Straight During the barbaric days of lobotomy that was though, nowadays we know is not.
@@Papa_Straight wow there are even lobotomites in this comment section!
@@Papa_Straight do you find life better now that you've had your lobotomy?
@@knotical689 nah i don't think it worked? I think i should try again and again and again until my soul dies lmao
When a man from 1950s USSR says "you're violating basic humanity"
Its time to take a few steps back
How did our doctors even think sticking an ice pick in someone's brain would help them?usually someone comes in the E.R with wounds like that ,not leave the hospital with those wounds😶
People back then where Crazy
look at some of the shit they still use today in open brain surgery...it's wild There are cranial drills, hooks literally inspired by wasp stingers, chisels....terrifying
How do our doctors today think that cutting off 80% of a baby's penis skin with no anesthesia will help them?
@@Spewb very true bro, these sheep won’t understand what you’re talking about though
People back then weren’t as knowledgeable as people today, the reason why we thrive as a species is because we learned things and passed it down generation by generation.
So therapy is more helpful than shoving an ice pick into someone's face???? Who knew? That'll be a 9 from me.
It also helps criminals a lot more than just being shoved in a pressure cooker environment!
Sorry but you made me laugh with that one.. 😆
Therapy is such a vague term though, nevermind that it's not very effective today and that there are plenty of conflicting methods, back then it was even more limited. Like, believe it or not, therapy is often much more complicated than just sitting down and talking to someone. I would know, i go to a psych ward daily as a patient lol, and it's definitely a struggle to "fix" people and bring them to their desired path
That's not to say that the practice was ever valid and acceptable, like no, even by the standards of medicine AT THE TIME, the practice was barbaric and cruel. My point is that "just go to therapy" isn't a good reply to this fact lol, in fact that statement is usually (if not always) pretty meaningless
shit man i had no idea! ty for telling me
@@frankbacon1002 you know what...I totally didn't think of that. So many things pop up when you search therapy. I should always clarify what I mean. Talking to a professional therapist. I mean, imagine someone spending money because they heard of retail therapy only to find out it's a joke.
Doc: “what are ya in for today?”
Me: “Nothing much, I just randomly get nervous over random things,”
Doc:*Gets the ice pick and hammer*
I laughed wayyyy harder than I should have to this comment
Lol
@@dunnallen6773 m the👍🏽🐇🐇🐇🕊🕊🕊🦤🦤🦤🕊🦃
Back in the late 70s/early 80s I knew someone who had had this done as a young woman in the 50s. She functioned well enough-had married and had kids and a job doing cleaning work. She was quite pleasant, but everything she did was reactive- she just sat and waited for someone to say or do something, at which she would respond politely and without any sign of pleasure or revulsion... She died in her very early 60s. Only some years after that did I see a pre-operation photo of her. I could hardly believe it was the same person- in the photo she looked stunning- vibrant, sparkling, full of life. Age can strip anyone of joie de vivre, but there is usually some hint of a twinkle, even in old age.
This seems to be rather common for people who survived, even those who didn’t seem to be harmed, almost always seemed to have lost themselves afterwards. Howard dully described his as leaving him feeling like he was missing some extent of himself for the rest of his life
It’s absolutely tragic
I'm really surprised that the death rate was only 15% when they clearly didn't know what they were doing.
ye me too, i thought itd be way higher, they are literally stabbing them through the eye socket and moving the pick around like bruh
Not really just goes to show how little is needed to remain alive but we all know there is massive difference between alive and living
how was 15% death rate even acceptable? it's absolutely crazy! basically if you don't fit into the norms you're worthless anyways.
@@ZiegenMeisterV1 Yeah, a 15% death rate for a procedure that’ll cure something serious and life ending is a reasonable risk, but for “normal” mentally ill people?
@@bananahat3350 nowerdays you get free prescribed weed for the same stuff ^^
Any radically invasive brain procedure to "fix" something that isn't a damaged vessel or remove cancer gets an automatic 9. We don't know nearly enough about the brain to be poking with anything. Even some medicines make me antsy. At the absolute best, the procedure does nothing. In almost every other sense it leaves the person with irreparable damage all the way up to completely eliminating who they are as a person.
That's a hard pass.
Sometimes small lesions can be effective as a last resort for completely debilitating conditions. For example, the "split brain" procedure, or the severing of the corpus callosum that connects the two hemispheres of the brain has been effective in curing life threatening epileptic seisures. The patient suffers some minor coordination issues but gets to live a normal life without constant risk of death.
Keith Davis. Do you just said that a brain Intervention is a" radically invasive procedure "?? Do you live in the 19 century or are you idiot by nature? Do you even know what kind of brain interventions are made nowadays?? My God.... I believe you where born with a lobotomy....
What about a brain biopsy where they expose your brain just to check for tumours and stuff
@@txeco2955 do you just said "do you just said" and insult guy intelligence? Much smart from you it seem. Big brain. Very intelligent. Im not even attacking your argument i just think that is incredibly ironic
Listening about how this doctor performed his procedures and without any regard to the patient's actual well being made me feel particularly uncomfortable.
That's how male oriented medicine was. My own mother was strapped into the sturrups, not allowed to MOVE when she gave birth to me. This was very common. Not for the comfort of the mother (no one cares about that) but for the ease of the doctor. Just...just think on that for a minute.
@@troubledwaters7441
It sounds horrifying.
7:03 Because poking a hole through the brain is ALWAYS safe. Every time!
Definitely a 9 from me. They didn't have the slightest damn clue what damage they were doing by sticking an ice pick into someones brain, wiggling it around and then viewing it as a cure because the poor patient was docile afterwards. The while thing is utterly ridiculous in my opinion. Just the thought of it makes my skin crawl.
I have the same sort of sensation from this, too.
Rarely have I felt so uncomfortable watching a documentary.
This was pure cruelty, the very definition of a treatment being worse than the illness.
Absolutely sickening.
This is so utterly terrifying for me. I deal with a panic disorder, and I can't help but wonder if I was born 100 years earlier if I would have ended up as a lobotomy patient.
Probably not.
The thing I find the most disturbing is that the effects of the surgery where not merely sideeffects that where unwanted, but couldn't be avoided because of the medical knowledge of the time. Like giving people alcohol because there literaly where no anaesthetics.
The Effect where wanted, the wanted to make them into living vegetables.
So many of these people didn't even have anything "Wrong" With them. Some just had anxiety, OCD, depression or ASD. it's awful to know what kind of stuff they did to people, it's truly horrifying.
...but, anxiety, OCD, depression, and ASD are all mental illnesses, which means that they did have something wrong with them
the (proper) cure just hadn't been found yet
@@Mate_Antal_Zoltan As someone who has most of the stuff listed, I don't like saying I "Have something wrong with me." I especially don't like when others say there is something wrong with me, because it's rude... Sure, it is a mental illness, but you shouldn't go around telling people who have them that there's something wrong with them
@@jojo_uwu3742 I guess you dislike every psychiatrist in the world then
@@Mate_Antal_Zoltan No lol. I actually go to therapy every week, and I have been for a long time now. They don't tell me something is wrong with me, they actually discourage that sort of thing. Having a mental illness doesn't mean something is wrong with you and it's a really toxic stereotype to put on people.
@@Mate_Antal_Zoltan therapists don't tell us that there's something wrong with us, that's terrible practice and a sure way to make patients develop self hate
How, at any point in history, can this be seen as a good thing to do AND then get a Nobel prize? It’s insane
@Return to the Old World ok trump supporter 😭😭
@@father8729 the mans was still keeping the oil war alive. So calling Obama ka beacon of peace or any politician would be really funny.
Nazi scientist:
_"What do you mean, you lobotomize the mentally feeble? What good would that do to them if they're all about to die from heart failure, the flu, stroke, appendicitis and typhoid fever anyways?"_
@@sambhavsingh7415 Oh so that's about Obama? Yeah, he was far from being a great guy. Far from being the worst as well.
@@sambhavsingh7415 every president has been objectively shit and has invariably done some sort of war crime, get real
Joseph Kennedy had this done on his daughter, what a mistake that was. She was worse off after the Lobotomy as she was unable to walk and talk after. He did not want it know she had issues and he only made her much worse.
He didn’t tell his wife Rose Kennedy, before he did that to his daughter.
And what's another tragic thing about Rosemary Kennedy was how long she lived after her lobotomy. Having to suffer with the consequences of her lobotomy for decades before she passed away
He also literally never visited her again after that
as someone who would've been lobotomized back in those years, i rate the procedure a 10 on the scale of 1 to 9. it's one of the most barbaric, idiotic "medical practices" in history, and i can't believe it was accepted for any amount of time
This seems like a great video to inform people that while our mental health services are much better now, they're still bad.
I ended up in a psychward after having an autistic melt down (My body never relaxed after work, so after so many days of work, I had a panic attack and resorted to self harm in order to avoid work). I willingly went into the ward, but I'll never do so again. They rob you of privacy, treat you like a complete idiot, prescribe you things without awnsering basic questions about it (like what side effects you should report), you get limited phone calls in and out, they extend your stay time over normal levels of negative enotioms (like feeling anxious/angry that another patient sexually assaulted you and staff did absolutely nothing about it!), etc... The ward I went to only gave you dictionaries, a radio, and a notebook with markers (pencils too deadly) for entertainment. You literally sit in a white room all day doing nothing. There was no trips outside, no exercise equipment or areas, so you had people restlessly pacing the halls because it's all you could do to stretch your legs. Apparently some wards were a little better in the entertainment department but they were always one patient losing their shit away from taking it away.
Unironically, if covid lock downs made you feel like you were trapped, please consider looking into and spreading the word about how mental facilities are still very detrimental to its patients. They're not there to help you, they're there to soak up your insurance money and like times of old, remove you from society for the convince of others (because families CAN force you in there by saying you're a danger to yourself).
destroy and bomb mental hospitals, give guns to everyone
@@mattbanks3517 become ungovernable
@@localegoist4079 i i agrre. Guns and armor. 200mm of stell or about 8 inches. you can make your own steel by reducing iron oxide to iron iwth charcoal, coal or hydrogen or natural gas. also you can use dirt to get the iron oxide. roast the dirt with gas or coal, put it in molten naoh to remove silica and clay. wash the ore in water then add soda and limestone to the ore and roast ith again, leach it in water. then add it in naoh water solution for a hour, rmove it wash it and there's your iron oxide left behind.
@@mattbanks3517 yeah
Even children's psych wards are garbage. In fourth grade, I was hospitalized by my foster parents after I attempted suicide, and even though it was only 24 hours, it was one of the worst days in my entire life. They treated me like a criminal, and I was even placed into a room with a kid who'd apparently pulled a knife on her parents (or she claimed so at least). Because of the mistreatment, I tried to escape the hospital multiple times until they locked me into a small room for about an hour. I remember screaming and crying, begging for them to let me out, while the nurse just stared me down with a cold, blank expression, like seeing a child in emotional pain was some trivial thing to her (because it was).
They made no effort whatsoever to make me better. They didn't try to help me. They didn't even treat me with basic respect. I was treated like some freak they had the misfortune of dealing with for a day, not caring in the slightest i was a traumatized child who'd just tried to end their own life because they were abused and bullied on the daily, and was newly dealing with the effects of being taken from your parents.
Those with mental illness and issues, even children, aren't viewed as even being human by a scary amount of people, including those whose job it is to help us.
I fully agree with your cruelty rating. Anyone who performed/ordered someone else to perform this procedure was a butcher with no place in the medical world. Full stop. Perhaps not even a place in polite society.
"I'm improving their lives."
"You killed that patient."
"They aren't suffering any longer, right?"