Now is the time to start thinking about your training for 2021. Science based training plans available here: www.trainingpeaks.com/coach/dylanjohnsontraining#trainingplans
Dylan, Thank you for the great content. I'm going to try your training plans this year. I used Trainer Road last year and liked it except that it did not incorporate weigh training (which I do and just 'added it in'). Anyway, my question before I buy your plans are: How do I execute the cycling portion of the plan? Trainer Road of course has it's app that guides one through the workout... Thank for your time. Neil.
I have assioma pm pedals and Garmin Vector 3,both tested on all of my bikes and sadly for assioma accuracy with the Vector 3 are the same and Vector 3 can take more beating and it will still work, with assioma isn't good bump in to it, because after on small bump in to sidewalk they, the left pedal wasn't working and I couldn't get new under warranty. ,so the only thing assioma is better, lighter weight and price, everything else is not better in some segments is even worse . So they might be best for you or this video is sponsored so you have to say whatever they want it. Quarq pm I have on my new Sworks Tarmac sl7 P. Sagan edt.it came with 4iii,but I changed it , but I still prefer pm pedals assioma on Trek Emonda slr 9 2019 and Vector 3 pm pedals on Scott foil 10 di2 2018 with lots of upgrades and honestly I sold my Sworks Venge 2020 and keep my foil 10, btw Venge is overrated and like everything from Specialized Sworks overpriced, I'm glad that my team is sponsored by Specialized, same is with Tarmac sl7 just another overpriced bike with stupid disc breaks, I still prefer rim breaks. We Slovenians are cycling and ultra running nation, as you can see in last 3 years. POGI aka Pogačar Tadej when he train he never use power meter and cycling computer, also Rogla aka Roglič Primož, so I guess we use that because it's cool and because we will never be pro cyclists. This video honestly was just waist of time. I can see you are young, I'm over 40 and cycling is 26 years, so I understand why you youngsters need all those gadgets, most of don't know how to listen to their bodies, I learn that from ultra running. So go for a run, no power meters, no speed and cadence sensors, even GPS multi sport watch is just another piece of equipment you don't need. Ride if you are good all those tech crap is unnecessary.
@@31.8mm Crank arm power meters are even cheaper now than they were 3 years ago. I've heard that Stages has stopped production, but 4iiii also makes crank arm power meters. Sorry if I bothered you with info that's useless to you.
Since getting a power meter, it has absolutely made me a better climber. I can keep my power on check, make sure I don’t end up in a ditch with cramps!!! LOL
Same here- I’ve been using them all this year and they are invaluable, especially when hitting long climbs. I’m terrible at estimating how much power I’m putting out, and now there is no guesswork- stay just below redline and keep cranking!
I've been using Favero Assioma for a year , very reliable and thankfully idiot proof , very easy to switch from one bike to the next just remember to clean and grease every time , if you're taking longer than 2 minutes to change the pedals over you're doing something badly wrong !! another great video Dylan .
I ran Assioma Duos for a couple of years. Great, reliable units. Until I rode gravel, and the master pedal failed (probably due to a crack and water ingress). I'd definitely get them for road use again, but probably not for gravel. Can still use the slave pedal in FulGaz as the app has a setting to double power. Kind of annoying you can't configure the slave pedal as a Uno
I love the Assioma pedal! Problem was they only lasted 1 month past warranty. Left one went first and the right went when I put the new left on. It’s almost like they were meant to go as soon as warranty ran out! They are the best pedal power meter though. They are not bulky and are centered just like regular pedals unlike Garmin and power tap.
I've been quite pleased with my Stages crank based meters. Quite sufficient for my modest needs. They have led to a significant improvement to my power output over the last couple of years and serve as the ultimate reality check on one's capabilities.
Hey Dylan, you mentioned about different sustained powers at different time durations (aka power curve). Maybe a video idea would be to explain how to train targeting different zones over the power curve. Thanks and stay safe!
Dylan, Awesome video as always. Would you say there is a change in your assessment of the power meters you analyzed 2 years ago vs what is available today? Would you make the same recommendations?
Very interesting presentation of the possible metrics of effort. They all have strengths and weaknesses. RPE for example has to be learnt, and requires a level of intuition that is developed over time. It is completely free of course, can be used in any sport, and is entirely based on the individual. The same goes for NR although one does need a hr monitor; the wrist based ones are wildly inaccurate, and an individual needs to have (a coach) or the ability to read their own data and establish their own zones. One also has to consider what training protocols they are going to follow. Power meters are, from a personal perspective as good as the others however they have the same parameters as the others. If you are fatigued for example, and try riding to your power zone, you could well be overdoing it. With so many metrics, it is easy to get caught up in tech and lose sight of our built in "power meter".
Would be interesting to see any research on how single-sided power meters might change the L/R balance if you ride to power a lot. Single-sided spindle-based power meters are generally nicer looking and have more chainring options, which is useful for gravel and do-it-all non-racing bikes, where a weakling like myself appreciates having a 32 or even smaller chainring option for steep stuff, and power meters are more for fun and making sure you don't go too hard at the start of the day if it will be a long one.
Cycling commuter here. My metrics are 😃 per mile, and did I get there on time. With COVID 19, I am not as sure about the second bit but I am working on it.
Recently started following your channel and watching your videos; i seldomly comment on videos but: Gotta admit that your work is great - you put time and energy into research and actually compare factors that matter unlike many other tuber's that just open boxes and compare Aero Wheels... Keep up the good work, big thumbs up! Y.R.
I love my Assioma Duo PM. If you use a Garmin the app also shows all sorts of interesting data related to L/R balance, pedal offset , etc when riding with the Duo's
Straight to the point and I agree with the view on the two power meter brands, not only because I use both, but because they turn to make sense most of the time. I also don't struggle to connect them to my computer, no outage. The price is tricky but reasonable
Had stages, 4iiii and quarq. Favero Assioma Duos are by far my favourite, and I should have bought it first and saved myself so much money! I also have the spd pedal bodies, so I can swap from road to mtb shoes for cyclocross or gravel touring.
@@showlowitsqueentlee2737 the 4iiii started going nuts, all of sudden I was doing 1300 watts and climbing whilst soft pedalling. It would read fine for a few mins, then go nuts again, reading zero watts then just start climbing rapidly up to ridiculous numbers. Fubbured But the reality is, dual power is so much better for training. My stages is still going fine, but having dual power, I can see massive issues in the stages power readings simply because of how I produce power. Sometimes I'm stronger on my left leg, sometimes not - it depends on fatigue and even power level or gradient, on or out of saddle. Far too many variables that it makes you second guess your readings from an effort. Dual power all the way.
wait favero does spd? Can i buy one set and a separate body and swap the pm between the bodies? or do i have to get a set of road and a set of spd power meters?
like the others, have a Duo, they are great. Just need to make sure when you plug them in to charge to plug the cable properly... last time I charged one pedal wasn't connected properly, and somehow it was flat next morning. Easily fixed, but my training session was done "blind" that day. Otherwise, perfect. If I could have only one PM, this one would be it
Been looking at power upgrade for a while now and the Favero pedals especially. I think watching this video has made my decision final. Great video 👍 thanks
Thanks Dylan ! I'm using Training Peaks and my coach can't do anything without power numbers. I too am using Favero Assioma single sided pedals and I like them a lot. I have converted mine to mtn bike cleats through the conversion on U-tube. I switch these pedals around between 3 different bikes, so they are very handy for this reason. And they are accurate enough for me. I'm not a pro, just a 69yo senior athlete trying to beat other seniors :)
@@KOMHuntTV great options. I got one by me, just over 1 mile, 11% I think would be the average grade. I wouldn't be surprised if it's up to 16% in spots. Eswatini. They call it the mountain kingdom. So there is probably more but I have yet to find them. I checked out your channel. Very cool. I love a Kom hunt myself.
@@hebrews11vs5 Ooooof that's a nice hill! haha Thank you... I started the channel in lockdown as a bit of fun... initially just a tiktok that someone wanted me to share on UA-cam so they could see it. It's been a fun journey ever since. Only issue is once I started filming and editing it didn't leave much time to ride my bike hahaha!
I use Garmin Vector 3s (single sided). Had them for a year and they've been good. £380 (Great British pounds). Batteries are two LR44s and seem to get through them pretty quickly. Pedals are great. Swap them between bikes quickly and easily.
Great advice, after 10+ years using HRM I got a powermeter 2 years ago and saw that my interval sessions had always been front heavy with a significant drop during the second part of the interval, HR would climb as expected, but power would always drop. Now I can sustain a given effort across the entire duration of the interval. Wish I'd bought the power meter a year earlier instead of the carbon wheels. Have been using the Power2max Ngeco, spider based system in my bikes and have not had an issue yet. Really good in terms of price/quality. GPlama and DCrainmaker have great reviews on most powermeters out there. Meanwhile we can keep waiting for the IQsquare to start shipping, should be another 3 years.
@@MistakeUponLake Well... you're not just buying pedals. You're buying a power meter. That said, I agree about hanging a $1200 component down where they can get bashed on rocks.
@@ianfurqueron5850 I'm waiting for some other manufacturer to come up with cheaper SPD-based power meter pedals. SRM would have earned my business if it was $999.
Hi there. I’ve been using the Faverro pedals for a few months now and I think they’re great. Battery life is better than advertised (I’ve got about 60 hours on the current charge and it’s only just under 1/2 now). Easy to swap between bikes, zero issues with data dropouts, good app to manage them. All in all a great product (and they’re Italian so I think my Bianchi likes them as well 😜).
Quarq power meter user as of 15 months ago; works extremely well. As mentioned, power numbers will vary based upon weight. Therefore, I've decided as of this video to lock in my weight at 145, which is was setting for majority of summer (Strava) segments. My objective is year over year personal comparisons, since I'm just slightly well-adjusted enough to not compete with power numbers of professional cyclists. As always, good video.
Favero assioma are my choice. I haven't had an issues and been using for two years. I have a giant crank based power meter that came on another ride and it has been nothing but a pain in the ass for the past 6 months, really made me appreciate the no fuss fit and forget Favero's. Plus you can buy all the parts separately so longevity maintenance should be an issue. `
I have a Canyon Ultimate that came fitted with a a Quark power meter and i have a Cervelo R5 fitted with a Rotor 2in power meter. The Rotor is "true" dual sided, where I get pedalling metrics such as left/right balance pedalling efficiency torque efficiency and pedalling smoothness.. these are not available on the Quark. The Rotor also has an internal rechargeable battery so no changing batteries. The Rotor is more expensive but if I could swap the Quark for another Rotor I would in a heartbeat. I sound like a Rotor employee but if I were I would say to them "make a set of rings that is interchangeable with the SRAM 12 speed AXIS system".. as I want to swap out my Quark for a Rotor power meter.. For me Quark is ok it's good but Rotor is perfect.
+1 vote for the Favero Duo system because it can be transferred easily. We split the year between two separate continents and I run Campy Record in the US compared to Dura-Ace where we live in the Middle East for most of the year. Given the hassle of traveling internationally with a bike, I prefer to put my Assiomas in a pair of socks in my Sidi shoes and toss them in my laptop bag. Problem solved.
I always learn something after watching my favorite UA-cam cycling professor, Mr Dylan!!! Just when I was feeling like I know everything already. Can you do another lesson on transitioning into base miles combined w/specific gym work for the winter? #LarginalGains 😂
Thanks Dylan for another so true topic! I use two Stages v3 left side crank arms and I am quite content. I also use dual sided Assiomas for a short period now. Fortunately no significant differences between one sided Stages and dual Assiomas. Actually I converted the Assiomas to SPD MTB pedals. How? Xpedo m-force pedal bodies are compatible with the Assioma spindles. GPlama proved that the conversion works flawlessly. @Dylan: It may be just a personal preference, but the graphs and text pieces are sometimes not directly understandable. Especially if English is not your first language. I guess it is extra work but it might be easier to understand if you have a self made chart which you describe with your own words rater than showing a copied piece of text from a scientific study. Or maybe it's just the distracting cycling videos in the background. Apart from that I'm looking forward to you next video!
Love my Faveros as well. Great how much data they can give you. I'd note they also help judge conditions you may be in. Last week I felt slow, but was putting out much higher than normal power. Didn't realize until I stopped how severe the headwinds were. My only complaint about the Faveros is that they're a little narrow and can be a little harder to clip into at times. But they're lighter than Garmin, zero tech problems, and rechargeable = big ++ that offset IMO.
I just bought a quarq for my lauf gravel. I’m excited to use power for training and especially for pacing myself in gravel races. I’m guilty of going out way too hard. In a race should I shoot for IF of 71? 60-70% of ftp? There’s probably another video telling me this answer . You’re videos rock man! Thank you
Late to the party but curious if you (Dylan) ride road pedals on your gravel setup... Looking at the Assioma Power Meters they don't seem to have SPD pedals.
A PM (coupled with a HRM) will be useful if you want to compare/analyze the load of different training sessions while training in very different environments in a short period of time (hometrainer, higher altitude, different bikes, different tires, different temperature). If you train for days, like most of us, on the same routes, same weather, with the same type of training sessions, comparing the average speeds will be largely enough to assess the quality of your training. As such, a PM is above all a useful tool for....your online coach as the online coach doesn't know your circuits and usual training environment. If you're your own coach, you can make do without. So Dylan is an online coach, so of course, for him it's better to follow your training if you get a PM....
If my memory serves me correctly.... Raoul Luescher talks about where the SRM gold standard myth comes from. It was a special unit made for national track teams that had 10 or 20 strain gauges in it. Not the standard consumer version with 4.
One of the benefits of HR training and Power + HR training but is missing in power based training is the impact environment has. On a cold day I can do 270 watts for an hour. On a hot humid day it's only 250 watts. Regardless my HR limit is 150 bpm. Same goes for elevation. The power I can sustain depends on the elevation but my HR limit is the same.
A power meter was the fastest piece of equipment I have ever purchased. I was told that I was "opening Pandora's box". However, in my first year of using a power meter I was too much of a robot, I didn't act human. I made sure I hit X watts for workout 1, Y watts for workout 2, Z watts for endurance rides, etc. I didn't listen to my body and it was not healthy for my mental game. People start to become obsessive over the numbers for training, bragging, racing, etc. Moreover, most people that have power meters don't know how to properly use it.
A lot of us on this channel are gravel racers. Having made this mistake myself, I strongly discourage pedal-based power for gravel racing because the most common options (Assiomas and Garmin Vectors) require a road-based cleat. They work well - until you have to dismount. The slightest amount of debris will prevent the cleats from activating leaving you frustrated and unable to put the power down - the extra money for crank-based power is worth it.
Can the term accurate be used about consumer power meters? Hopefully, off-the-shelf power meters have a degree of precision, but accuracy, I doubt it. That said, as long as your power meter provides precise, repeatable readings between sessions, what more could the retail consumer ask for? I'd also argue that a dual-sided power meter offers no real advantages over a single-sided power meter. As you alluded to, trying to correct an imbalance may inhibit performance. So long as a single-sided power meter provides precision, all a dual sided-meter will provide is a different number. What would one do with that different number versus the data from the single-sided meter? The numbers produced from either type of meter are equal in providing data for training, pacing and racing. Although the dual-sided meter will be closer in terms of actual work done by each leg. It would be interesting if anyone has done any work to determine the difference in kilojoules regarding single and dual-sided for different distance events and if the outcomes are significant in terms of increasing or decreasing performance. Or are dual-sided power meters purely a marketing gimmick to release the buying public from some of their hard-earned cash?
Agree on both counts: training and riding with power data is more productive and effective, and the Assioma pedals are reliable, accurate, and convenient, easily swapping from spin to tri/TT to road bikes.
very informative, thanks. I didn't need persuasion for using a powermeter, what I need is a suggestion for pedal-based powermeters for MTB-type of pedal. My son is into MTB (cross country) and he's doing also cyclocross/gravel with the same type of shoes. I don't have the money to change his cranks, but a decently priced pair of MTB-pedals powermeters, that he can move from one bike to another easily... that would be a great X-max present :) Something to send data to his Garmin 530.
Interesting video just a question i use both hr and power to pace myself , im confuse when you said that if your hr is low it can be a sign that you are tired or over train i long understand that low hr mean that you are fitter
I always thought the depression of resting HR was an indicator that the heart and/or aerobic metabolism was becoming more efficient and therefore a desirable thing to see your HR be lower for the same amount of effort.
was scratching my head there too, i would think relatively elevated RHR would be the signal of stress... might need to watch this again, maybe i misunderstood
@@dannylockett9445 Yes the guy doesn't understand the cardiac drift. The more exhausted/fatigued you are, the higher your bpm for the same power output. Blind leading the blind...
Such good points! I use to confuse thinking I was getting fitter doing an endurance (z2 in 5 zone model) since my HR was lower for given power VERSUS fatigue
Hello @Dylan Johnson, I am a big fan of your videos! With off-season now well underway for much of the northern hemisphere, I would love to see a video on nutrition for the off-season. With weight training being a very important factor in the off season and when looking for strength gains, I was wondering whether a kind of “winter bulk” would actually be a worthwhile consideration. I am not talking an epic bulk, where you gain dozens of pounds of low quality mass, but a controlled slight gain in weight to support strength gain and aid with recovery. In strength training something like this is very common, while I couldn’t find many cyclists doing this. Would be awesome to here your opinion on this.
As someone with a sensitive sinus node, it doesn't take minutes for my heart rate to get super ramped up, it only takes seconds. Power meter helps me more to know if I'm going too hard, to keep out of lactate threshold #2 on a 3-zone scheme. Interestingly, I've used power meter long enough now that I can fairly accurately guesstimate how much power I'm doing based on feel. On a climb anyway. It gets trickier guessing that when you add in a headwind and/or crosswind.
I have Power2Max on 3 bikes. For the price, in my opinion, it’s the only power meter you should buy. Dual side power at under 1K$. AND built-in cadence. AND no magnets.
I know it's just an anecdote, but I can confirm the effect of position on HR. When I sit up on the trainer, my HR increases by 5-10 BPM and quickly drops when I put my hands back on the bars. Clearly the heart doesn't have to work as hard when the torso is not vertical.
Was unsure if I want one on my gravel because it might take the fun out of it. Now I love it. I simply don't want to see average watts because then I always chase averages.
Holding a consistent power over a hill can be a god send but not every hill is the same. By the time you figure out that you cant hold a certain power on a different hill, its too late. Trial and error is the same, power meter or not. Listen to your body, it knows.
I have got a cannondale spider ring in one piece so quark is not an option , so pedals it is.. how do the garmin pedal meters compare to the assimo's? Also i noticed all pedal power meters need look cleats... Arent there any with Shimano?
Great video Dylan as per - I’ll now check to find “a how to use power meter video”. I’ve been running a quark first 3.5 years on my road bike but still have no idea how to properly use - I have plenty of data :) ?? Matt
Are there any benefits using a power meter on a mountain bike. No one ever really discusses training with a power meter on a mountain bike. How would you do intervals if the terrain always changing . How would you put together a training plan for a mountain biker
Agree on the Assiomas. But I would pick Power2Max over Quarq (I have both). My Quarq DZero has a habit of getting its calibration a bit out of whack, some times mid ride. I only notice when I look at the power numbers and experience tells me its wrong... coast, calibrate, and all of a sudden it's good again. Also had the battery die once without prior warning (I now carry a spare). My 2 Power2Max spiders (original P2M and NG Eco) have been 100% flawless. They work, all the time, every time. Yes, the battery is not very common, but it lasts forever. I'll go through three CR2032 on the quarq and I'll still be on one in the P2M.
Very well explained! But how do you make decisions on a race/ride using power data or HR for that matter? You decide with your reason. You use your judgement. That's why I believe P.E. + Power data, combined and compared are the best way to go when promoting acquisition of self knowledge to evolve. I agree with you completely. I'm just afraid that... things being put that way you did, might give people the impression that they can finally retire from this exhausting duty which is controlling intensity once they have a power meter on their bikes. It must be clear, I believe, that you and yourself alone will always be the controller of this incredibly complex instrument we call a body. And I say that very humbly (if I don't sound like that, forgive me - being a non-native user of the language may spoil communication at times. I apologize) since I'm aware that your knowledge goes a lot further than my current one. I'm a fan actually! Know thyself, use power data to promote long time knowledge of what you can do on a bike. But never retire from being the boat's captain. Cheers from Brazil!
As somebody who does 90% of my training on Zwift (non stop power analysis), I have stayed away from investing in a power meter for the bike when cycling outdoors because its nice to ride now and again without having constant numbers to distract me, and ride simply on feel and enjoy the ride. I agree with everything you said about heart rate being an unreliable source for basing exertion. When competing in races (triathlon), just my adrenaline raises my heart rate by 10 - 20 bpm, for the same effort compared to a Sunday ride for example. I am on the fence, as I know it would be beneficial, especially in triathlon when you have to run off the bike, and have to save some legs for the run.
Food for thought. Much benefit of power data lies in post ride analysis and over accumulative analysis. Therefore, I’d warmly recommend using power on rides, ignoring it for a percentage of your rides (to satisfy your love of cycling), then be able to CHOOSE whether you analyze post ride or not.
@@silverbullitt24 it mostly happened after 2.30 hrs of riding. So what should i do about this. Lowering the volume? And increase it a little over time. Or should just I endure it for the last 1.30 hrs?
Dylan, I really appreciate your pragmatic and science based approach to the most popular questions cyclists like me have- Thank you! I have ridden a Stages single-sided crank PM for years on my road bike. What is your perspective on that compared to pedals? Second question - what is your perspective of best “type” of power meter for mountain bikes (efficacy) and should I expect similar FTP between on and off road given surface variability w/Mtn? Again, thank you!
Hi Dylan I love you segments, I'm 67 years young back in my day we did not have power meters. I know you deal with the young brigade but do you think I could benefit from from training this way.
@@TheMASDrummer XCadey XPower-L - 232$ was the deal I got, 267$ the normal price - I can't fully recommend it, as I don't know if their customer service is any good. For me it's worth the risk at half the price of a Stages and the benefit of the rechargeable battery.
Now is the time to start thinking about your training for 2021. Science based training plans available here: www.trainingpeaks.com/coach/dylanjohnsontraining#trainingplans
4iiii? Peter Sagan is using it lol
dylan,
thanks for all your videos. i am loving the 6 hour training plan i bought at training peaks that you designed. keep up the good work.
Let me know when BHD has a training plan we can download
Dylan, Thank you for the great content. I'm going to try your training plans this year. I used Trainer Road last year and liked it except that it did not incorporate weigh training (which I do and just 'added it in'). Anyway, my question before I buy your plans are: How do I execute the cycling portion of the plan? Trainer Road of course has it's app that guides one through the workout... Thank for your time. Neil.
I have assioma pm pedals and Garmin Vector 3,both tested on all of my bikes and sadly for assioma accuracy with the Vector 3 are the same and Vector 3 can take more beating and it will still work, with assioma isn't good bump in to it, because after on small bump in to sidewalk they, the left pedal wasn't working and I couldn't get new under warranty. ,so the only thing assioma is better, lighter weight and price, everything else is not better in some segments is even worse . So they might be best for you or this video is sponsored so you have to say whatever they want it. Quarq pm I have on my new Sworks Tarmac sl7 P. Sagan edt.it came with 4iii,but I changed it , but I still prefer pm pedals assioma on Trek Emonda slr 9 2019 and Vector 3 pm pedals on Scott foil 10 di2 2018 with lots of upgrades and honestly I sold my Sworks Venge 2020 and keep my foil 10, btw Venge is overrated and like everything from Specialized Sworks overpriced, I'm glad that my team is sponsored by Specialized, same is with Tarmac sl7 just another overpriced bike with stupid disc breaks, I still prefer rim breaks. We Slovenians are cycling and ultra running nation, as you can see in last 3 years. POGI aka Pogačar Tadej when he train he never use power meter and cycling computer, also Rogla aka Roglič Primož, so I guess we use that because it's cool and because we will never be pro cyclists.
This video honestly was just waist of time. I can see you are young, I'm over 40 and cycling is 26 years, so I understand why you youngsters need all those gadgets, most of don't know how to listen to their bodies, I learn that from ultra running. So go for a run, no power meters, no speed and cadence sensors, even GPS multi sport watch is just another piece of equipment you don't need.
Ride if you are good all those tech crap is unnecessary.
“Don’t buy upgrades, ride up grades” - Eddy Merckx -- but be smart, use a Power Meter so you can "measure upgrades" - DJ.
*thinking to get a power meter
*looking at the price
*thinking to get a new bike instead
He didn't mention the cheaper option of crank arm power meters.
@@HopyHop1 why r u dragging me to my 3years old comment
@@31.8mm
Crank arm power meters are even cheaper now than they were 3 years ago. I've heard that Stages has stopped production, but 4iiii also makes crank arm power meters. Sorry if I bothered you with info that's useless to you.
@@HopyHop1 haha okay okay, well thanks for the info, maybe someday when i go back cycling again I'll look into it
Since getting a power meter, it has absolutely made me a better climber. I can keep my power on check, make sure I don’t end up in a ditch with cramps!!! LOL
sounds like your new power meter is inhibiting your performance. Beast mode rules LOL
Everyone needs a power meter to know how inferior they really are compared to Filipo Ganna!
Who are the 5 best coaches of all time? Think about it. Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, and Dylan, because he spits hot fire.
If he recommended my company's products on his videos I'd make sure there'd be a huge box of free shit getting Fed Ex'd to his door!!!
chapelle skit?
Underrated comment. Deserves to be pinned
The scientific coach is too young to get this joke 😂😂😂
Idk man BHD is for sure up there
Love my Faveros. Good price and accurate.
I have been using my Faveros for a year now without any problems. They are awesome.
Same here- I’ve been using them all this year and they are invaluable, especially when hitting long climbs. I’m terrible at estimating how much power I’m putting out, and now there is no guesswork- stay just below redline and keep cranking!
I like them too but I think they read higher than my wahoo kickr
I've been using Favero Assioma for a year , very reliable and thankfully idiot proof , very easy to switch from one bike to the next just remember to clean and grease every time , if you're taking longer than 2 minutes to change the pedals over you're doing something badly wrong !! another great video Dylan .
The Assiomas are great pedals, better than PowerTap and Garmin.
@@dpstrial I agree
I ran Assioma Duos for a couple of years. Great, reliable units. Until I rode gravel, and the master pedal failed (probably due to a crack and water ingress). I'd definitely get them for road use again, but probably not for gravel. Can still use the slave pedal in FulGaz as the app has a setting to double power. Kind of annoying you can't configure the slave pedal as a Uno
@@joomzb hi, my left pedal failed too. How does the slave work in FulGaz? I’ll have a look at that setting, does it need to be in Bluetooth? Cheers
I love the Assioma pedal! Problem was they only lasted 1 month past warranty. Left one went first and the right went when I put the new left on. It’s almost like they were meant to go as soon as warranty ran out! They are the best pedal power meter though. They are not bulky and are centered just like regular pedals unlike Garmin and power tap.
I LOVE that pro tip at 1:07!
I've been quite pleased with my Stages crank based meters. Quite sufficient for my modest needs. They have led to a significant improvement to my power output over the last couple of years and serve as the ultimate reality check on one's capabilities.
Hey Dylan, you mentioned about different sustained powers at different time durations (aka power curve). Maybe a video idea would be to explain how to train targeting different zones over the power curve. Thanks and stay safe!
Got a Giant Power Pro with my Giant as an add-on when I bought the bike, very reliable. It's based on the Pioneer Power Meter.
Literally can’t live without a power meter for training... Got one on all my bikes 😝 Love the Quarq easy to set up and use 👌
Dylan, Awesome video as always. Would you say there is a change in your assessment of the power meters you analyzed 2 years ago vs what is available today? Would you make the same recommendations?
Very interesting presentation of the possible metrics of effort. They all have strengths and weaknesses. RPE for example has to be learnt, and requires a level of intuition that is developed over time. It is completely free of course, can be used in any sport, and is entirely based on the individual. The same goes for NR although one does need a hr monitor; the wrist based ones are wildly inaccurate, and an individual needs to have (a coach) or the ability to read their own data and establish their own zones. One also has to consider what training protocols they are going to follow. Power meters are, from a personal perspective as good as the others however they have the same parameters as the others. If you are fatigued for example, and try riding to your power zone, you could well be overdoing it. With so many metrics, it is easy to get caught up in tech and lose sight of our built in "power meter".
Power2max NGeco user here. I've had mine for 6 years and it's been flawless!
Would be interesting to see any research on how single-sided power meters might change the L/R balance if you ride to power a lot.
Single-sided spindle-based power meters are generally nicer looking and have more chainring options, which is useful for gravel and do-it-all non-racing bikes, where a weakling like myself appreciates having a 32 or even smaller chainring option for steep stuff, and power meters are more for fun and making sure you don't go too hard at the start of the day if it will be a long one.
Cycling commuter here. My metrics are 😃 per mile, and did I get there on time. With COVID 19, I am not as sure about the second bit but I am working on it.
Recently started following your channel and watching your videos; i seldomly comment on videos but:
Gotta admit that your work is great - you put time and energy into research and actually compare factors that matter unlike many other tuber's that just open boxes and compare Aero Wheels...
Keep up the good work, big thumbs up!
Y.R.
Great video! Best cycling training channel on UA-cam
I love my Assioma Duo PM. If you use a Garmin the app also shows all sorts of interesting data related to L/R balance, pedal offset , etc when riding with the Duo's
Straight to the point and I agree with the view on the two power meter brands, not only because I use both, but because they turn to make sense most of the time. I also don't struggle to connect them to my computer, no outage. The price is tricky but reasonable
Have both power meters mentioned. Quarq XX1 is a workhorse on MTB. It’s the bread and butter of most of my riding but the Favero is great in a pinch
Had stages, 4iiii and quarq.
Favero Assioma Duos are by far my favourite, and I should have bought it first and saved myself so much money! I also have the spd pedal bodies, so I can swap from road to mtb shoes for cyclocross or gravel touring.
What was the issue w/ the 4iiii? I bought one as my first power meter, and it seems fine to me. What's so much better about the FAD?
@@showlowitsqueentlee2737 the 4iiii started going nuts, all of sudden I was doing 1300 watts and climbing whilst soft pedalling. It would read fine for a few mins, then go nuts again, reading zero watts then just start climbing rapidly up to ridiculous numbers. Fubbured
But the reality is, dual power is so much better for training. My stages is still going fine, but having dual power, I can see massive issues in the stages power readings simply because of how I produce power. Sometimes I'm stronger on my left leg, sometimes not - it depends on fatigue and even power level or gradient, on or out of saddle. Far too many variables that it makes you second guess your readings from an effort.
Dual power all the way.
wait favero does spd? Can i buy one set and a separate body and swap the pm between the bodies? or do i have to get a set of road and a set of spd power meters?
I've had my eyes on the favero assioma for a while now. Will definitely get them for next summer.
I have both the Assioma Duo and Uno, and they have been flawless. I cannot recommend them enough. I also have the PowerTap P1s, which are awful.
You’ll be glad you did!
Duo user here, I recommend them.
like the others, have a Duo, they are great. Just need to make sure when you plug them in to charge to plug the cable properly... last time I charged one pedal wasn't connected properly, and somehow it was flat next morning. Easily fixed, but my training session was done "blind" that day. Otherwise, perfect. If I could have only one PM, this one would be it
Been looking at power upgrade for a while now and the Favero pedals especially. I think watching this video has made my decision final. Great video 👍 thanks
Thanks Dylan ! I'm using Training Peaks and my coach can't do anything without power numbers. I too am using Favero Assioma single sided pedals and I like them a lot. I have converted mine to mtn bike cleats through the conversion on U-tube. I switch these pedals around between 3 different bikes, so they are very handy for this reason. And they are accurate enough for me. I'm not a pro, just a 69yo senior athlete trying to beat other seniors :)
5:55 I started a 4.2mile Hill Climb at 1400watts... It didn’t end well 😂😂
4.2 mile hill. Man, that's super long.
@@hebrews11vs5 Yeah, it's a great local Hill. Porlock Hill (2 routes. 2miles 10% and the other 4miles at 5% so at least we have options haha)
@@KOMHuntTV great options. I got one by me, just over 1 mile, 11% I think would be the average grade. I wouldn't be surprised if it's up to 16% in spots. Eswatini. They call it the mountain kingdom. So there is probably more but I have yet to find them. I checked out your channel. Very cool. I love a Kom hunt myself.
@@hebrews11vs5
Ooooof that's a nice hill! haha Thank you... I started the channel in lockdown as a bit of fun... initially just a tiktok that someone wanted me to share on UA-cam so they could see it. It's been a fun journey ever since. Only issue is once I started filming and editing it didn't leave much time to ride my bike hahaha!
I use Garmin Vector 3s (single sided). Had them for a year and they've been good. £380 (Great British pounds). Batteries are two LR44s and seem to get through them pretty quickly. Pedals are great. Swap them between bikes quickly and easily.
I agree with your Duo recommendation. I’ve been using them for a couple of years now. Rock solid.
Great advice, after 10+ years using HRM I got a powermeter 2 years ago and saw that my interval sessions had always been front heavy with a significant drop during the second part of the interval, HR would climb as expected, but power would always drop. Now I can sustain a given effort across the entire duration of the interval. Wish I'd bought the power meter a year earlier instead of the carbon wheels. Have been using the Power2max Ngeco, spider based system in my bikes and have not had an issue yet. Really good in terms of price/quality. GPlama and DCrainmaker have great reviews on most powermeters out there. Meanwhile we can keep waiting for the IQsquare to start shipping, should be another 3 years.
I love my Power2Max NGEco. No issues whatsoever. Until an SPD-based pedal power meter is available, that is what I will use.
@Aramintai that’s crazy expensive and I’m not spending that kind of money on pedals
@@MistakeUponLake Well... you're not just buying pedals. You're buying a power meter. That said, I agree about hanging a $1200 component down where they can get bashed on rocks.
I use my Favero Assioma with the spd pedal bodies, feels just as great as the road pedals.
@@MrBJPitt Yeah, but you void your warranty (unless you waited for warranty period to expire to replace the pedal body)
@@ianfurqueron5850 I'm waiting for some other manufacturer to come up with cheaper SPD-based power meter pedals. SRM would have earned my business if it was $999.
Hi there. I’ve been using the Faverro pedals for a few months now and I think they’re great. Battery life is better than advertised (I’ve got about 60 hours on the current charge and it’s only just under 1/2 now). Easy to swap between bikes, zero issues with data dropouts, good app to manage them. All in all a great product (and they’re Italian so I think my Bianchi likes them as well 😜).
Thanks D-man. Very good vid. I'm on the hunt for a PM now...
Quarq power meter user as of 15 months ago; works extremely well. As mentioned, power numbers will vary based upon weight. Therefore, I've decided as of this video to lock in my weight at 145, which is was setting for majority of summer (Strava) segments. My objective is year over year personal comparisons, since I'm just slightly well-adjusted enough to not compete with power numbers of professional cyclists. As always, good video.
As always thanks for great information. I find your site to be highly valuable. Merry Christmas.
Favero assioma are my choice. I haven't had an issues and been using for two years. I have a giant crank based power meter that came on another ride and it has been nothing but a pain in the ass for the past 6 months, really made me appreciate the no fuss fit and forget Favero's. Plus you can buy all the parts separately so longevity maintenance should be an issue. `
Get a stages left side only. It is cheap and it will read high and will boost your confidence :D
I have a Canyon Ultimate that came fitted with a a Quark power meter and i have a Cervelo R5 fitted with a Rotor 2in power meter. The Rotor is "true" dual sided, where I get pedalling metrics such as left/right balance pedalling efficiency torque efficiency and pedalling smoothness.. these are not available on the Quark. The Rotor also has an internal rechargeable battery so no changing batteries. The Rotor is more expensive but if I could swap the Quark for another Rotor I would in a heartbeat.
I sound like a Rotor employee but if I were I would say to them "make a set of rings that is interchangeable with the SRAM 12 speed AXIS system".. as I want to swap out my Quark for a Rotor power meter..
For me Quark is ok it's good but Rotor is perfect.
+1 vote for the Favero Duo system because it can be transferred easily. We split the year between two separate continents and I run Campy Record in the US compared to Dura-Ace where we live in the Middle East for most of the year. Given the hassle of traveling internationally with a bike, I prefer to put my Assiomas in a pair of socks in my Sidi shoes and toss them in my laptop bag. Problem solved.
I always learn something after watching my favorite UA-cam cycling professor, Mr Dylan!!!
Just when I was feeling like I know everything already.
Can you do another lesson on transitioning into base miles combined w/specific gym work for the winter?
#LarginalGains 😂
Thanks Dylan for another so true topic! I use two Stages v3 left side crank arms and I am quite content. I also use dual sided Assiomas for a short period now. Fortunately no significant differences between one sided Stages and dual Assiomas. Actually I converted the Assiomas to SPD MTB pedals. How? Xpedo m-force pedal bodies are compatible with the Assioma spindles. GPlama proved that the conversion works flawlessly.
@Dylan: It may be just a personal preference, but the graphs and text pieces are sometimes not directly understandable. Especially if English is not your first language. I guess it is extra work but it might be easier to understand if you have a self made chart which you describe with your own words rater than showing a copied piece of text from a scientific study.
Or maybe it's just the distracting cycling videos in the background. Apart from that I'm looking forward to you next video!
"LARGINALgains!" I'm sold.
Well done mate. Thank you for a simple and easy to understand presentation. Not sounding like a pretentious cycling trainer using unnecessary jargon
Great research as always, and a timely subject. Now to find a training plan. Thank you Dylan.
Love my Faveros as well. Great how much data they can give you. I'd note they also help judge conditions you may be in. Last week I felt slow, but was putting out much higher than normal power. Didn't realize until I stopped how severe the headwinds were. My only complaint about the Faveros is that they're a little narrow and can be a little harder to clip into at times. But they're lighter than Garmin, zero tech problems, and rechargeable = big ++ that offset IMO.
Top quality content, as usual. Thank you for sharing these insights, Dylan.
I just bought a quarq for my lauf gravel. I’m excited to use power for training and especially for pacing myself in gravel races. I’m guilty of going out way too hard. In a race should I shoot for IF of 71? 60-70% of ftp? There’s probably another video telling me this answer . You’re videos rock man! Thank you
my 4iiii crank based pm has been great and excellent value if you're on a budget
Late to the party but curious if you (Dylan) ride road pedals on your gravel setup... Looking at the Assioma Power Meters they don't seem to have SPD pedals.
A PM (coupled with a HRM) will be useful if you want to compare/analyze the load of different training sessions while training in very different environments in a short period of time (hometrainer, higher altitude, different bikes, different tires, different temperature). If you train for days, like most of us, on the same routes, same weather, with the same type of training sessions, comparing the average speeds will be largely enough to assess the quality of your training.
As such, a PM is above all a useful tool for....your online coach as the online coach doesn't know your circuits and usual training environment. If you're your own coach, you can make do without.
So Dylan is an online coach, so of course, for him it's better to follow your training if you get a PM....
If my memory serves me correctly.... Raoul Luescher talks about where the SRM gold standard myth comes from. It was a special unit made for national track teams that had 10 or 20 strain gauges in it. Not the standard consumer version with 4.
damn that if true🤯
One of the benefits of HR training and Power + HR training but is missing in power based training is the impact environment has. On a cold day I can do 270 watts for an hour. On a hot humid day it's only 250 watts. Regardless my HR limit is 150 bpm. Same goes for elevation. The power I can sustain depends on the elevation but my HR limit is the same.
A power meter was the fastest piece of equipment I have ever purchased. I was told that I was "opening Pandora's box".
However, in my first year of using a power meter I was too much of a robot, I didn't act human. I made sure I hit X watts for workout 1, Y watts for workout 2, Z watts for endurance rides, etc. I didn't listen to my body and it was not healthy for my mental game. People start to become obsessive over the numbers for training, bragging, racing, etc. Moreover, most people that have power meters don't know how to properly use it.
Faveros are definitely what I choose.
you really have an excellent style and scientific knowledge which is valuable! please keep it up (yes i subscribed)
A lot of us on this channel are gravel racers. Having made this mistake myself, I strongly discourage pedal-based power for gravel racing because the most common options (Assiomas and Garmin Vectors) require a road-based cleat. They work well - until you have to dismount. The slightest amount of debris will prevent the cleats from activating leaving you frustrated and unable to put the power down - the extra money for crank-based power is worth it.
Can the term accurate be used about consumer power meters? Hopefully, off-the-shelf power meters have a degree of precision, but accuracy, I doubt it. That said, as long as your power meter provides precise, repeatable readings between sessions, what more could the retail consumer ask for?
I'd also argue that a dual-sided power meter offers no real advantages over a single-sided power meter. As you alluded to, trying to correct an imbalance may inhibit performance. So long as a single-sided power meter provides precision, all a dual sided-meter will provide is a different number. What would one do with that different number versus the data from the single-sided meter?
The numbers produced from either type of meter are equal in providing data for training, pacing and racing. Although the dual-sided meter will be closer in terms of actual work done by each leg.
It would be interesting if anyone has done any work to determine the difference in kilojoules regarding single and dual-sided for different distance events and if the outcomes are significant in terms of increasing or decreasing performance. Or are dual-sided power meters purely a marketing gimmick to release the buying public from some of their hard-earned cash?
Your recommendations are spot on Dylan!
Agree on both counts: training and riding with power data is more productive and effective, and the Assioma pedals are reliable, accurate, and convenient, easily swapping from spin to tri/TT to road bikes.
Love your videos! You should make one about the main types of workouts there are and when you should be doing them in a training cycle
very informative, thanks. I didn't need persuasion for using a powermeter, what I need is a suggestion for pedal-based powermeters for MTB-type of pedal. My son is into MTB (cross country) and he's doing also cyclocross/gravel with the same type of shoes. I don't have the money to change his cranks, but a decently priced pair of MTB-pedals powermeters, that he can move from one bike to another easily... that would be a great X-max present :)
Something to send data to his Garmin 530.
Interesting video just a question i use both hr and power to pace myself , im confuse when you said that if your hr is low it can be a sign that you are tired or over train i long understand that low hr mean that you are fitter
Great video. Valuable information. Thanks
"if a rider attacked they would just keep the tempo and reel them in"
Poor old Contador
contador paid for that cant fuk with sky train!!
all the hail the boring cycling program - "follow the computer
not the pistolero"
@@jarmelnelson getting beaten by a "boring" team would have been humiliating though.
I always thought the depression of resting HR was an indicator that the heart and/or aerobic metabolism was becoming more efficient and therefore a desirable thing to see your HR be lower for the same amount of effort.
was scratching my head there too, i would think relatively elevated RHR would be the signal of stress... might need to watch this again, maybe i misunderstood
@@dannylockett9445 Yes the guy doesn't understand the cardiac drift. The more exhausted/fatigued you are, the higher your bpm for the same power output. Blind leading the blind...
Dylan whats your opinion of the Favero Assioma compared to the Garmin Vector 3 dual pedal power meters ?.
I use a Verve Infocrank; Brilliant power meter bought from Ebay for about 350gbp with Rotor chainrings!
Hey really well explained! keep up the good work!!
Got a Power Meter on my Electra Ticino
Such good points! I use to confuse thinking I was getting fitter doing an endurance (z2 in 5 zone model) since my HR was lower for given power VERSUS fatigue
I'm still using powertap p1 pedals since its release ☺️
Thanks Dylan, as always very intuitive advice 👍
Favero Assiomas 4 the Win!
Hello @Dylan Johnson,
I am a big fan of your videos!
With off-season now well underway for much of the northern hemisphere, I would love to see a video on nutrition for the off-season. With weight training being a very important factor in the off season and when looking for strength gains, I was wondering whether a kind of “winter bulk” would actually be a worthwhile consideration. I am not talking an epic bulk, where you gain dozens of pounds of low quality mass, but a controlled slight gain in weight to support strength gain and aid with recovery. In strength training something like this is very common, while I couldn’t find many cyclists doing this.
Would be awesome to here your opinion on this.
As someone with a sensitive sinus node, it doesn't take minutes for my heart rate to get super ramped up, it only takes seconds. Power meter helps me more to know if I'm going too hard, to keep out of lactate threshold #2 on a 3-zone scheme. Interestingly, I've used power meter long enough now that I can fairly accurately guesstimate how much power I'm doing based on feel. On a climb anyway. It gets trickier guessing that when you add in a headwind and/or crosswind.
I have Power2Max on 3 bikes. For the price, in my opinion, it’s the only power meter you should buy. Dual side power at under 1K$. AND built-in cadence. AND no magnets.
I was genuinely convinced I'd buy one until I saw those prices
2004 I installed Polar’s Powermeter. In 2009 I got a new bike put an SRM. Night and day difference.
I know it's just an anecdote, but I can confirm the effect of position on HR. When I sit up on the trainer, my HR increases by 5-10 BPM and quickly drops when I put my hands back on the bars. Clearly the heart doesn't have to work as hard when the torso is not vertical.
Was unsure if I want one on my gravel because it might take the fun out of it. Now I love it. I simply don't want to see average watts because then I always chase averages.
Holding a consistent power over a hill can be a god send but not every hill is the same. By the time you figure out that you cant hold a certain power on a different hill, its too late. Trial and error is the same, power meter or not. Listen to your body, it knows.
I have got a cannondale spider ring in one piece so quark is not an option , so pedals it is.. how do the garmin pedal meters compare to the assimo's?
Also i noticed all pedal power meters need look cleats... Arent there any with Shimano?
Great video Dylan as per - I’ll now check to find “a how to use power meter video”. I’ve been running a quark first 3.5 years on my road bike but still have no idea how to properly use - I have plenty of data :) ??
Matt
Answer is yes. For training and racing
What do you now about Velocomp PowerPod power meter?
Are there any benefits using a power meter on a mountain bike. No one ever really discusses training with a power meter on a mountain bike. How would you do intervals if the terrain always changing . How would you put together a training plan for a mountain biker
Agree on the Assiomas. But I would pick Power2Max over Quarq (I have both). My Quarq DZero has a habit of getting its calibration a bit out of whack, some times mid ride. I only notice when I look at the power numbers and experience tells me its wrong... coast, calibrate, and all of a sudden it's good again. Also had the battery die once without prior warning (I now carry a spare). My 2 Power2Max spiders (original P2M and NG Eco) have been 100% flawless. They work, all the time, every time. Yes, the battery is not very common, but it lasts forever. I'll go through three CR2032 on the quarq and I'll still be on one in the P2M.
Very well explained! But how do you make decisions on a race/ride using power data or HR for that matter? You decide with your reason. You use your judgement. That's why I believe P.E. + Power data, combined and compared are the best way to go when promoting acquisition of self knowledge to evolve. I agree with you completely. I'm just afraid that... things being put that way you did, might give people the impression that they can finally retire from this exhausting duty which is controlling intensity once they have a power meter on their bikes. It must be clear, I believe, that you and yourself alone will always be the controller of this incredibly complex instrument we call a body. And I say that very humbly (if I don't sound like that, forgive me - being a non-native user of the language may spoil communication at times. I apologize) since I'm aware that your knowledge goes a lot further than my current one. I'm a fan actually! Know thyself, use power data to promote long time knowledge of what you can do on a bike. But never retire from being the boat's captain. Cheers from Brazil!
As somebody who does 90% of my training on Zwift (non stop power analysis), I have stayed away from investing in a power meter for the bike when cycling outdoors because its nice to ride now and again without having constant numbers to distract me, and ride simply on feel and enjoy the ride. I agree with everything you said about heart rate being an unreliable source for basing exertion. When competing in races (triathlon), just my adrenaline raises my heart rate by 10 - 20 bpm, for the same effort compared to a Sunday ride for example. I am on the fence, as I know it would be beneficial, especially in triathlon when you have to run off the bike, and have to save some legs for the run.
Food for thought. Much benefit of power data lies in post ride analysis and over accumulative analysis. Therefore, I’d warmly recommend using power on rides, ignoring it for a percentage of your rides (to satisfy your love of cycling), then be able to CHOOSE whether you analyze post ride or not.
If i trained 4 hrs in zone 2. By the last hours my HR would jump into z3 at the same watts. So what should I follow power or hr?...
@@kakarot2430 you are likely experiencing cardiac drift. This is a normal physiological change with sustained efforts and is related to fatigue.
@@silverbullitt24 it mostly happened after 2.30 hrs of riding. So what should i do about this. Lowering the volume? And increase it a little over time. Or should just I endure it for the last 1.30 hrs?
HI Dylan. How about Infocrank? Do you know this brand? What do you think?
love my powertap p1 and nice video
I use a quart as well nice recommendation
Dylan, I really appreciate your pragmatic and science based approach to the most popular questions cyclists like me have- Thank you! I have ridden a Stages single-sided crank PM for years on my road bike. What is your perspective on that compared to pedals? Second question - what is your perspective of best “type” of power meter for mountain bikes (efficacy) and should I expect similar FTP between on and off road given surface variability w/Mtn? Again, thank you!
I got the 4iiii crank and it seems to work pretty well
Your 3 power meters are worth more than my 2 bikes :) but good video, my first upgrade will be a power meter.
My PowerTap hub just works. It's consistent and reliable.
Nice timing. Thanks
I'll need to set mine at 1000 lbs to get good power numbers.
Hi Dylan
I love you segments, I'm 67 years young back in my day we did not have power meters. I know you deal with the young brigade but do you think I could benefit from from training this way.
Maybe I got lucky, but my 230$ aliexpress left-sided power meter with rechargeable battery works without any issues.
What's it called
Same for me. My XCadey gives me the same numbers as the 3-4 years old Stages I have on my other bike.
@@TheMASDrummer XCadey XPower-L
- 232$ was the deal I got, 267$ the normal price
- I can't fully recommend it, as I don't know if their customer service is any good. For me it's worth the risk at half the price of a Stages and the benefit of the rechargeable battery.