This is probably the most requested video I’ve ever had from this channel! I never knew whether I should go with an FRFR or cab and power amp for using with modellers so thank you!
I got a Laney FR112 to go with my Tonex pedal .. it sounds awesome on its own .. played a gig last weekend sounded great but lacked the punch of a valve amp on stage.
I would have enjoyed hearing a line out from the QC as a reference of what the un-amped sound was. Great demo, I've now spec'd my digital rig to sit beside my analog one!
My rig: Framus Teambuilt Devin Townsend Stormbender Into Headrush Prime Into Headrush Looperboard Out to a pair of Headrush FRFR 112s in stereo And a single Headrush FRFR 108 in the middle as a monitor. Absolute beast of a system.
Volume has a lot to do with speaker efficiency - which is why bass players play 500w amps while guitarists play 30w amps. The ability of the Headrush to handle bass frequencies is astonishing, it’s also based on a PA speaker, so has a heavy duty driver the may be less efficient than one aimed at guitarists. I have the previous model to use as a monitor when I’m DI'ing my bass. The frequency cut (if I remember correctly) is to compensate for positioning. An upright speaker is pushing the cone forwards and backwards, basically working against inertia and some air pressure. Sound people will tell you that when you tip a speaker away from vertical, it is then working against inertia, air pressure and gravity. - people put wheels on things because it much less effort to push them than to lift them. For speakers, the need for the driver to “lift” the cone adds extra bass frequencies while reducing treble. I imagine a secondary use would be that the Headrush can be stand-mounted. On a stand, full frequency would be the go to, while if you are putting it on the stage, the cut in low frequency response would reduce acoustic coupling withe stage. Even as a bass player, I have played places with such a resonant stage, that it becomes an issue. I'll also say that for decades i have only used 15” bass cabs and never been satisfied with smaller speakers, the 12” in the Headrush easily matches - and in some cases exceeds the low frequencies they are comfortable with. Reply
I literally use Mackie PA speakers rather than FRFR cabs because well…pretty similar concept. I roll off highs and lows for “guitar” tones with EQ, works great, sounds like a “legit” “real” guitar amp, with the HX stomp into it, more like hundreds actually.
the headrush 112 has lots of low end, i have the first version, it's now used as a bass drum and bass guitar monitor for our band, it can get pretty loud as well.
@@JeremyAndersonBoiseI tried the Costco stereo PA setup and returned it because there was a constant hiss whenever the amp was turned on. Class D amps can have problems with hiss if they are not carefully engineered to filter it out. I have a Line6 PowerCab 112 Plus now and it is much nicer. Of course it also cost a lot more.
You realize speaker efficiency (or sensitivity) is measured at 1khz right? It’s a meaningless standard. Try looking at the frequency response curve instead.
I own the Positive Grid and it tends to be a little bass heavy. So, there is often a need to make an adjustment for that somewhere in the signal chain. For the price I do like it quite a bit. Because it has the headphone line as an input, I sometimes use my Vox Adio Air GT with it and it acts like a little digital modeling amp head. That input isn’t limited to just the Spark.
I agree on the top 2 - but not necessarily the order. On clean at least - the fender sounded like a fender. The Laney sounded like a Laney. Go figure. Without the "dialed in" tone direct - you really cant tell which translated to the actual programmed tone better though - so its kind of a Moot discussion.
I have to disagree - all these FRFR cabs & the way they're mic'd colours the sound - the sound of the modeller into the DI is still the truest version of how the unit sounds.
@@soogen I couldn't agree more. Room mic is the only viable option in this scenario. Using IRs to review FRFRs makes zero sense. I can't believe some people can't comprehend this simple fact.
I get the point of using the same presets to compare the differences, but in the real world part of the reason to go FRFR is that you can always be using the same speaker so presets can be dialed in based on that sound without worrying if they sound good through multiple sources or can be easily EQ'd.
I liked that they used the same preset for everything here because FRFR should be to present an accurate sound of the preset, regardless of price or power. Any weakness in the FRFR's ability to sound accurate with presets vs. what you would hear with a direct signal let's you know immediately whether the "frfr" is, indeed, true to the sound of the preset or does it color the sound. Sure, you can tweak sounds after that, but most players want to know whether a cab is truly FRFR or not.
From experience of most of these FR's. The Headrush generally is pretty bright vs what goes out the front of the PA. The Laney is HEAVY and an awakard size/shape to carry into venues. The Fender is super light. Portable, looks/sounds like a real amp, has eq which you can adjust to your preference depending on the venue. I like that it's got a DI out as well.. I've used this function live. For me the Fender is a winner by a country mile..
And the tone cut should have most definitely been off for the fender.. That tone cut being half way massively will affect the top end of the FR. Everything else at 12 oclock will give it the most natural sounding version of the DI signal.
I do 2 Headrush on stands, daisy chained to a Fender FRFR and sometimes I AB/Y to a tube amp and run them all. In any case, I didn't like the Headrush at first until I pulled it off the floor and put them on stands, then it was a matter of trimming up some frequencies because it covers too much spectrum. But easy enough. I'd rather trim than not have enough.
Very interesting. I own the 8" speaker version of the Headrush and the Fender Tonemaster 1x12. The Headrush is small, light, and reasonably priced. I take it to jam sessions, along with a digital pedal board built around a ToneX pedal, and it has worked great as either my main volume provider, or as my monitor if I can plug my pedalboard directly into a mixer. The Fender FRFR is much, much larger and heavier, but it is also a massive improvement in sound. It's also so loud that I've never turned it up above 1/3 and even that's too much for just practicing in the man cave. I have compared the Fender to a powered Alto full range PA speaker that I have sitting right next to it, and the Fender sounds better to me.
As usual a great demo review, that we want to see and hear. My experience with FRFR while using my Fractal Axe Fx3, is that whichever FRFR you own or end up buying, you'll need to tweak your presets to make them sound as close to what you desire by using eq's amp types, cabs etc, usually cutting the lows drastically improves the tone, the only other matter is how much power in db's do you want or need, according to this demo the Laney wins, additionally the Laney requires much less tweaking. Impressive.
I have a Laney LFR-112 and my rig is just a Fractal FM9 Turbo through it. Wish this vid was out before I bought it, but I love it regardless! Best cab for the money imo
Owner of a Positive Grid CAB here. Yes, it has a boomy sound when it's laid on the floor. For this unit to really shine, you have to angle it back or put it on an amp stand. It sounds like 10x better off the ground. It's really transformative. I'm quite happy with it and it sounds amazing for its price (when it's off the floor).
@@stereoroid Nope, that's not the serial number in my unit. I bought it on pre-sale, early bird. Do you think some batches sound different than others, or that they tweaked this unit along some time after launch?
If you had the cut at 12 o'clock on the Fender, then the high's were being rolled off, that's why it "sounds like it's being rolled off" compared to the Laney.
I have the Laney and use an amp stand. Too bass heavy when its on the ground. But I have used it nearly daily for a year, it absolutely sounds amazing!
great video and playing, as usual! I do find that my quad does need re-dialling with different monitors and PA systems and they all sounded pretty different to my ears
The head rush 8" is the not pictured winner for me. It's screaming loud and doesn't have that woofy bass sound like the 12. Makes my di signal to foh much more balanced without the overhyped lows. Our other guitarist has the fender 12 and loves it. He bought 6 of the frfr amps to compare and kept the fender and 8" headrush.
A couple of thoughts - Likely any of these would sound good if you tweaked your modeler's EQ/amp/cab to it in particular. Also, (just sayin...) the Line 6 Catalyst has a power amp input that gets it close to being an FRFR while also being a full featured guitar amp with several different amp models and lots of effects, XLR out, MIDI, and is cheaper than many of the (one trick pony) FRFRs you tested. Great video guys!
I have the head rush and the spark cab. You REALLY need the spark cab off the ground for it to shine. Just being off the ground pulls a slight bit of the bass out of it to my ears which makes it sound more neutral with my ToneX + HX Effects "rig" The Headrush I have the same experience with it that you mentioned.
Here is a tip for your FRFR Powered speakers,use a small mixer like a behringer UB802,run your modeler into the mixer and then into your FRFR,you will get more volume and have 3 band EQ to shape your tone going into your FRFR!Put the mixer in a easy to reach location so you do not have to go behind your FRFR to make adjustments!
Fun fact: While Canada uses the metric system, we use pounds unless cooking, feet/inches for our height or construction materials and Faranheit for swimming pool temperature.
(Guest is blocking the dB display along the back wall.) I do appreciate this post as I may be going FRFR x 2 to enjoy stereo separation from pedal outputs.
Not being a performer, I only needed home practice use for my nano, quad and tonex. I decided on the spark 2, so have the digital amp that is the spark 2, and I can also just output the modellers into the guitar input, and turn off the signal chain of the spark 2 in the app and use it like an FRFR. Best of both worlds for me as I don’t need the really high output volume.
When you did the back to backs at the end it would have been interesting to also have a direct from the QC version as a comparison of how the patch is setup to see which one is closest to the patch. The reason for this is because the Laney is really bright to me which isn't my favourite sound but if that is the best representation of how the patch is programmed then my opinion of the cab changes.
Love the Digital John robot prompt in the beginning so entertaining :) I use two headrush 108s at home on stands and they are great for home use. I also taking them to rehearsals. Live I use a QSC. There are better out there but they get the job done.
I have positive grid cab and it sounds great, a little beefy low but it works perfect as I back and forth from bass to guitar. I see other comments on getting an amp stand and I’m going to try that out!
I’d be interested to know what level the signal is coming out of the modeler…line level or mic level? I find the FR-12 needs line level to be competitive in the loudness dept.
i have a powercab and it sounds ok. i also have gigged with a jbl powered pa speaker and that works pretty well too. i’ve been using modeling for years and have tried many, many, options and am still not happy with how it sounds to me. what’s coming out of the house is pretty much indiscernible from a mic’ed amp but what i feel coming out is not 100% there with any of the gear i’ve tried. i still use modelers though because they are WAY more convenient and versatile than an amp and pedalboard setup.
Great work, as usual guys! I’m wondering if the Headrush had been designed to excel only with a Headrush amp simulator & do just an OK job with anything else. I was expecting it to dominate all the other units, to be honest. Now, I’m on team Laney! 🤘😎🎶
I'm a bass player, and I’m not the only one using the Headrush. It’s a PA design - hence the low frequency cut, which helps when putting on a stage - especially tilted, as opposed to being on a stand - it has the socket and clamp to go on a stand. It also explains the Bluetooth. My perception (and one I’ve heard from others) is that despite claiming to be FRFR, some manufacturers - including some very good ones, do actually tune their enclosures to sound great with a guitar. If you are just using it as a stand alone rig, modeller and cab, that can be fine. However, if your modeller is set for a cab that is "sweetened", if you are using that cab as your stage sound or monitor and then running a signal direct to a PA or recording desk, it is quite possible that the actual output of your modeller is different to the way your 'FRFR' reproduces it. It’s basically the same idea as studio monitors. HiFi / home stereo speakers are all tuned and baffled to sound very pleasing. But studio monitors are intentionally “soulless” so that you can monitor what is being recorded. As a bass player, I’m going to the PA before most guitarists, having an unsweetened sound from my FRFR means i'm hearing what the PA and desk is getting
Great shootout! Be interesting to have Pete try them with something like the UA or Origin amp sim pedals too. Would also be interested to see if the Fender works better with the Tonemaster board. Have Fender tweaked it to sound best with their own gear?
Actually, I have nothing against modeling; on the contrary, I find it very practical. However, the only reason that keeps me using tube amps and traditional pedals is that as soon as I plug into an FRFR cab or an active speaker, it sounds terrible. Can someone explain how it works? I understand that for recording on a computer, you’ll always get a good sound-it’s easy. But how do you manage to play live with it? What kind of speaker do you use? That’s what I don’t understand. It always sounds bad when I try, whereas with a good old tube amp, when I plug it into a passive speaker, there’s absolutely no issue. It’s straightforward. What am I doing wrong here? This is what I can’t figure out, and it’s the reason I can’t fully switch to digital, even though it’s clearly the future. Ps: yes I’ve disabled Cab sim etc but it’s still horrible
I've fitted two Katana mk.1 100w amps with Celestion F12-X200 speakers and run the from my Helix floor and that is a very good sound (many good sounds), the big bonus is that my FOH and amp sounds are very similar, so my amp levels matches my FOH sound, I've never had this kind of control before!! Btw. I run the amps return input, not using the preamps at all.
It's not technically an frfr for guitar, but the Bose s1 pro+ is great and has other uses like busking and PA, inputs for mic etc and portable with battery.
I had a Headrush fr108 and it made a huge difference what environment it was set in as to how it sounded. I had gig in a home where we were crammed into a corner and the 108 was up against a wall and I could never get it to sound good. Also it is pretty directional. Might as well go through the pa if using a modeler. Pricing wasn’t mentioned so I’m assuming the demos were in order of low to highest?
Once starting to make guitar amplifying easy, cheap, lightweight und predictable we now need at least four pieces of hardware plus dozens of software. I still go with my Marshall SV20C.
One thing I love about my positive grid FRFR (and the reason I ended up with one) is it has a USB port. You can power a lot of pedals now with USB. I'd love to have an adapter for the 19V output to be more versatile, too.
Question, am kind of in a market to look for one since I would likely be going all amp sim/multi fx setup for home and occasionally jamming in the office Seeing how the Headrush has 2 inputs, I am looking for it to also do vocal, is that the only choice amongst all of these? Would likely add in a Vox.FX too. Still can't make a decision! Been jumping between the Headrush and Fender! But I was a bit more surprised to see Positive Grid's Cab here. Though I would be unlikely to purchase any Positive Grid stuffs until they fix the way they decide to market/release/support their existing hardware without making them redundant within the same year (looking at you Spark EDGE)
I have been using a Hot Rod Deluxe to push a Nano Cortex. Needed the extra power. A Deluxe Reverb didn't have the cojones to do it. I expect a FRFR cabinet will be in my future once I get the floor space. For now, will have to do with the Hot Rod Deluxe. It does sound pretty flat on the clean channel.
I would like to see how a Line6 Powercab 112 or 112 Plus sounds compared to these speakers. The Powercab 112 Plus can be used to model various speakers too, which could offload some DSP from your modeller. I have a 112 Plus but usually run it in FRFR mode. It has plenty of volume and works well with any modeller. Since I normally am playing at home, my FRFR system is the "free" components after upgrading my old home theater: 100 watts per channel into 2 large (stereo) speakers and a 12 inch subwoofer. Or Sennheiser HD600 headphones. The Powercab is for offsite or on the couch in front of the TV. It would be nice to use the TV home theater for my guitar to get stereo, might try to wire that up during the holidays.
From the recording I would go either Headrush or Laney. All the others sounded either too bassy (Fender) or boxy (Positive Grid). This is always tricky to record a FRFR and it may be better to try it in person...
Guys I'm a newb. I have a Friedman IR-J, VP4 and pedals and almost finished building two 4x12 cabinets with Celestion F12-X200 (FR). Should I purchase a tube amp or solid state like Seymour Duncan 700?
Depends on what you intend to do with it, what style of music you play, what the venues require. Do both eventually and you'll have your bases covered. But whatever gets you by now. Having a tube amp to run A/B with the power amp will help to EQ the power amp solution. That way you can leave the tube amp safe at home and gig the power amp.
So I’m a bit confused… these are cabinets? As in speakers alone? And need to be used with a separate tube head or a transistor head? Or are they combo amps? And if speaker cabs only what heads are you using?
Interesting video especially the last bit, where you could compare side by side. Some switching back and forth would have been nice. I’ve got an frfr from the H-brand and was looking at the Fender. Not anymore…
DIGITAL JOHN!
I like the name.
Just another DJ 😉
@@Jeremya74 😂
DI GI TAL JON
Yeah you guys had the Fender FR12 with the tone rolled half out. Would love to have listen to it as it should be set.
This is probably the most requested video I’ve ever had from this channel! I never knew whether I should go with an FRFR or cab and power amp for using with modellers so thank you!
It depends on how you like to hear your tone. FRFR (without a lot of EQ) will sound like a mic’ed amp not the a map directly.
My first FRFR cab arrives today. Went with the Laney F-112. Stoked!!!! Cheers to Andertons for the helpful videos.
As someone who sent his Laney back and got a Fender FR-12, all I can say is that I'm sorry.
The Fender is on a completely different level.
@ sorry your Laney didn’t work out for ya. This video was definitely leaning words the Laney but the Fender seems like a nice unit as well.
@@diabx0r Did the opposite. The Laney is epic, to my ears it sounds much better than the Fender I had
@@Berserker26 I agree. The Laney has way more headroom.
I got a Laney FR112 to go with my Tonex pedal .. it sounds awesome on its own .. played a gig last weekend sounded great but lacked the punch of a valve amp on stage.
I truly missed Digital John.
And hes back with an insteresting topic
was legit looking for frfr cabs this morning, the timing of this video is perfect
no cap
I just bought the Line 6 Pro Go Wireless, now I'm looking for an FRFR cabinet. the timing was superb, thank you.
I would have enjoyed hearing a line out from the QC as a reference of what the un-amped sound was. Great demo, I've now spec'd my digital rig to sit beside my analog one!
Good to see Lee’s let his son come back on for another video. I’m actually on the hunt for an FRFR, this may prove useful…
I use a Headrush 108 on an amp stand--loud as hell and sounds great.
My rig:
Framus Teambuilt Devin Townsend Stormbender
Into
Headrush Prime
Into
Headrush Looperboard
Out to a pair of Headrush FRFR 112s in stereo
And a single Headrush FRFR 108 in the middle as a monitor.
Absolute beast of a system.
Volume has a lot to do with speaker efficiency - which is why bass players play 500w amps while guitarists play 30w amps. The ability of the Headrush to handle bass frequencies is astonishing, it’s also based on a PA speaker, so has a heavy duty driver the may be less efficient than one aimed at guitarists. I have the previous model to use as a monitor when I’m DI'ing my bass.
The frequency cut (if I remember correctly) is to compensate for positioning. An upright speaker is pushing the cone forwards and backwards, basically working against inertia and some air pressure. Sound people will tell you that when you tip a speaker away from vertical, it is then working against inertia, air pressure and gravity. - people put wheels on things because it much less effort to push them than to lift them. For speakers, the need for the driver to “lift” the cone adds extra bass frequencies while reducing treble.
I imagine a secondary use would be that the Headrush can be stand-mounted. On a stand, full frequency would be the go to, while if you are putting it on the stage, the cut in low frequency response would reduce acoustic coupling withe stage. Even as a bass player, I have played places with such a resonant stage, that it becomes an issue.
I'll also say that for decades i have only used 15” bass cabs and never been satisfied with smaller speakers, the 12” in the Headrush easily matches - and in some cases exceeds the low frequencies they are comfortable with.
Reply
I literally use Mackie PA speakers rather than FRFR cabs because well…pretty similar concept. I roll off highs and lows for “guitar” tones with EQ, works great, sounds like a “legit” “real” guitar amp, with the HX stomp into it, more like hundreds actually.
the headrush 112 has lots of low end, i have the first version, it's now used as a bass drum and bass guitar monitor for our band, it can get pretty loud as well.
@@JeremyAndersonBoiseI tried the Costco stereo PA setup and returned it because there was a constant hiss whenever the amp was turned on. Class D amps can have problems with hiss if they are not carefully engineered to filter it out. I have a Line6 PowerCab 112 Plus now and it is much nicer. Of course it also cost a lot more.
You realize speaker efficiency (or sensitivity) is measured at 1khz right? It’s a meaningless standard. Try looking at the frequency response curve instead.
This was very informative. I've been looking for this kind of shootout.
I’ve tried all these except the Laney.. the Fender FR12 is the only one that felt and sounded like a real amp
I own the Positive Grid and it tends to be a little bass heavy. So, there is often a need to make an adjustment for that somewhere in the signal chain.
For the price I do like it quite a bit. Because it has the headphone line as an input, I sometimes use my Vox Adio Air GT with it and it acts like a little digital modeling amp head. That input isn’t limited to just the Spark.
Fender sounded the most naturally amp like to me. Laney sounded really good too
i think the same, and i was suprised how different they are !
I agree on the top 2 - but not necessarily the order. On clean at least - the fender sounded like a fender. The Laney sounded like a Laney. Go figure. Without the "dialed in" tone direct - you really cant tell which translated to the actual programmed tone better though - so its kind of a Moot discussion.
I know it's a pain to setup but I think this is the best way to do modelers in their videos, frfr cab with a room mic
Sounds terrible.
I have to disagree - all these FRFR cabs & the way they're mic'd colours the sound - the sound of the modeller into the DI is still the truest version of how the unit sounds.
@@andertons the reason I prefer this to the di is because otherwise you are at the mercy of the ir used which imo the majority of do not sound good
@@andertons yes
@@soogen I couldn't agree more. Room mic is the only viable option in this scenario. Using IRs to review FRFRs makes zero sense. I can't believe some people can't comprehend this simple fact.
I get the point of using the same presets to compare the differences, but in the real world part of the reason to go FRFR is that you can always be using the same speaker so presets can be dialed in based on that sound without worrying if they sound good through multiple sources or can be easily EQ'd.
I liked that they used the same preset for everything here because FRFR should be to present an accurate sound of the preset, regardless of price or power. Any weakness in the FRFR's ability to sound accurate with presets vs. what you would hear with a direct signal let's you know immediately whether the "frfr" is, indeed, true to the sound of the preset or does it color the sound. Sure, you can tweak sounds after that, but most players want to know whether a cab is truly FRFR or not.
19:36 John holding back commenting on Lee's "Most of the time you're only putting one thing in" lol
gotta stay pro ennit
I was waiting for a "That's what she said"
Tru dat
Pete wouldn't let that one pass him by. It would be total pandemonium
From experience of most of these FR's. The Headrush generally is pretty bright vs what goes out the front of the PA. The Laney is HEAVY and an awakard size/shape to carry into venues. The Fender is super light. Portable, looks/sounds like a real amp, has eq which you can adjust to your preference depending on the venue. I like that it's got a DI out as well.. I've used this function live. For me the Fender is a winner by a country mile..
And the tone cut should have most definitely been off for the fender.. That tone cut being half way massively will affect the top end of the FR. Everything else at 12 oclock will give it the most natural sounding version of the DI signal.
I do 2 Headrush on stands, daisy chained to a Fender FRFR and sometimes I AB/Y to a tube amp and run them all. In any case, I didn't like the Headrush at first until I pulled it off the floor and put them on stands, then it was a matter of trimming up some frequencies because it covers too much spectrum. But easy enough. I'd rather trim than not have enough.
Very interesting. I own the 8" speaker version of the Headrush and the Fender Tonemaster 1x12. The Headrush is small, light, and reasonably priced. I take it to jam sessions, along with a digital pedal board built around a ToneX pedal, and it has worked great as either my main volume provider, or as my monitor if I can plug my pedalboard directly into a mixer. The Fender FRFR is much, much larger and heavier, but it is also a massive improvement in sound. It's also so loud that I've never turned it up above 1/3 and even that's too much for just practicing in the man cave. I have compared the Fender to a powered Alto full range PA speaker that I have sitting right next to it, and the Fender sounds better to me.
As usual a great demo review, that we want to see and hear. My experience with FRFR while using my Fractal Axe Fx3, is that whichever FRFR you own or end up buying, you'll need to tweak your presets to make them sound as close to what you desire by using eq's amp types, cabs etc, usually cutting the lows drastically improves the tone, the only other matter is how much power in db's do you want or need, according to this demo the Laney wins, additionally the Laney requires much less tweaking. Impressive.
I have a Laney LFR-112 and my rig is just a Fractal FM9 Turbo through it. Wish this vid was out before I bought it, but I love it regardless! Best cab for the money imo
Cool. Now do FRFR cabs for bass guitars!
Owner of a Positive Grid CAB here.
Yes, it has a boomy sound when it's laid on the floor. For this unit to really shine, you have to angle it back or put it on an amp stand.
It sounds like 10x better off the ground. It's really transformative. I'm quite happy with it and it sounds amazing for its price (when it's off the floor).
Serial no. 90125, by any chance? 😂
@@stereoroid Nope, that's not the serial number in my unit. I bought it on pre-sale, early bird.
Do you think some batches sound different than others, or that they tweaked this unit along some time after launch?
If you had the cut at 12 o'clock on the Fender, then the high's were being rolled off, that's why it "sounds like it's being rolled off" compared to the Laney.
Based on this test, the only FRFR cab I would consider buying is the Fender Tone Master.
Digital John!!! Good to see you again!😅
Good to be back 🤖🫡
I have the Laney and use an amp stand. Too bass heavy when its on the ground. But I have used it nearly daily for a year, it absolutely sounds amazing!
great video and playing, as usual! I do find that my quad does need re-dialling with different monitors and PA systems and they all sounded pretty different to my ears
great shootout! We've got the Fender and the Pos Grid FRFRs in our arsenal and they're both great with the Quad Cortex
if a cab has any sort of EQ circuit, is it really "flat response"?
The head rush 8" is the not pictured winner for me. It's screaming loud and doesn't have that woofy bass sound like the 12. Makes my di signal to foh much more balanced without the overhyped lows. Our other guitarist has the fender 12 and loves it. He bought 6 of the frfr amps to compare and kept the fender and 8" headrush.
Went from 2 head rush 108s to 2 fender FRFR12s and boy they are so nice
A couple of thoughts - Likely any of these would sound good if you tweaked your modeler's EQ/amp/cab to it in particular. Also, (just sayin...) the Line 6 Catalyst has a power amp input that gets it close to being an FRFR while also being a full featured guitar amp with several different amp models and lots of effects, XLR out, MIDI, and is cheaper than many of the (one trick pony) FRFRs you tested. Great video guys!
The Laney all the way, loved the vid boys,
thanks.
I have the head rush and the spark cab. You REALLY need the spark cab off the ground for it to shine. Just being off the ground pulls a slight bit of the bass out of it to my ears which makes it sound more neutral with my ToneX + HX Effects "rig" The Headrush I have the same experience with it that you mentioned.
The same thing with MY FR-12, really shines when you tilt it or get it off of the ground, if not I have to dial the bass all the way back.
For what it's worth Guthrie Govan also uses the laney lfr series
I'm guessing they're saying it's 2500w peak as opposed to rms. I hate when manufacturers do this, it's very obviously misleading customers.
Here is a tip for your FRFR Powered speakers,use a small mixer like a behringer UB802,run your modeler into the mixer and then into your FRFR,you will get more volume and have 3 band EQ to shape your tone going into your FRFR!Put the mixer in a easy to reach location so you do not have to go behind your FRFR to make adjustments!
I use a Laney FR112 with a Tonex .. my first dip into the digital realm .. got to say, it sounds amazing.
Fun fact: While Canada uses the metric system, we use pounds unless cooking, feet/inches for our height or construction materials and Faranheit for swimming pool temperature.
We use pounds for amp weight :)
We use pounds for money
(Guest is blocking the dB display along the back wall.)
I do appreciate this post as I may be going FRFR x 2 to enjoy stereo separation from pedal outputs.
The Fender FR is the only way to go, if you’re considering an FRFR, just get the fender. Don’t over think it
RCF are good too.
Have the FR10 with UAFX pedals and sounds amazing. Light and fits in a Pelican rolling case. Very gig friendly.
For Real For Real cabs
Didn't expect to like the Laney so much..
Not being a performer, I only needed home practice use for my nano, quad and tonex. I decided on the spark 2, so have the digital amp that is the spark 2, and I can also just output the modellers into the guitar input, and turn off the signal chain of the spark 2 in the app and use it like an FRFR. Best of both worlds for me as I don’t need the really high output volume.
I would really like a comparison between powered frfrs and a Seymour Duncan PowerStage 200 into a cab.
When you did the back to backs at the end it would have been interesting to also have a direct from the QC version as a comparison of how the patch is setup to see which one is closest to the patch. The reason for this is because the Laney is really bright to me which isn't my favourite sound but if that is the best representation of how the patch is programmed then my opinion of the cab changes.
Love the Digital John robot prompt in the beginning so entertaining :) I use two headrush 108s at home on stands and they are great for home use. I also taking them to rehearsals. Live I use a QSC. There are better out there but they get the job done.
Not a fan of digital but 👍 for John’s playing
I have positive grid cab and it sounds great, a little beefy low but it works perfect as I back and forth from bass to guitar. I see other comments on getting an amp stand and I’m going to try that out!
Playing with octave effects would be a great test for these on the low end. Stick on an OC-5 or ehx bass9 and see what happens to the bottom end.
Laney for the win, and I own a Headrush so, I wanted it to win, but it didn't.
I’d be interested to know what level the signal is coming out of the modeler…line level or mic level? I find the FR-12 needs line level to be competitive in the loudness dept.
I’ve used these for many years. I run a modeling board (usually a boss) into a frfr.
i have a powercab and it sounds ok. i also have gigged with a jbl powered pa speaker and that works pretty well too. i’ve been using modeling for years and have tried many, many, options and am still not happy with how it sounds to me. what’s coming out of the house is pretty much indiscernible from a mic’ed amp but what i feel coming out is not 100% there with any of the gear i’ve tried. i still use modelers though because they are WAY more convenient and versatile than an amp and pedalboard setup.
The Fender has tilt legs And an eq. section, I would buy that today if I didn't have what i need.
This and the Fender FR10 is a great choice.
Great work, as usual guys! I’m wondering if the Headrush had been designed to excel only with a Headrush amp simulator & do just an OK job with anything else. I was expecting it to dominate all the other units, to be honest. Now, I’m on team Laney! 🤘😎🎶
I'm a bass player, and I’m not the only one using the Headrush. It’s a PA design - hence the low frequency cut, which helps when putting on a stage - especially tilted, as opposed to being on a stand - it has the socket and clamp to go on a stand. It also explains the Bluetooth.
My perception (and one I’ve heard from others) is that despite claiming to be FRFR, some manufacturers - including some very good ones, do actually tune their enclosures to sound great with a guitar. If you are just using it as a stand alone rig, modeller and cab, that can be fine.
However, if your modeller is set for a cab that is "sweetened", if you are using that cab as your stage sound or monitor and then running a signal direct to a PA or recording desk, it is quite possible that the actual output of your modeller is different to the way your 'FRFR' reproduces it.
It’s basically the same idea as studio monitors. HiFi / home stereo speakers are all tuned and baffled to sound very pleasing. But studio monitors are intentionally “soulless” so that you can monitor what is being recorded. As a bass player, I’m going to the PA before most guitarists, having an unsweetened sound from my FRFR means i'm hearing what the PA and desk is getting
I use a QSC Cp8.....Best one ive found so far.
Flat setting on the Fender FR-12 is treble, middle bass set to noon, and the Cut at minimum position.
10db is a doubling of volume (loudness). 3db is a double of power and a detectable change in loudness. 40 years as an electronic technologist.
Nevermind the cabs… that guitar!
🔥 Another great video!
Fender for the win.. press play.
Extremely relevant to my interests
I have two Headrush 1x12 with a Kemper. Sounds killer.
Digital John....I approve of the name :)
just bought the laney from you guys as its $300 more at sweetwater!!
Great shootout! Be interesting to have Pete try them with something like the UA or Origin amp sim pedals too. Would also be interested to see if the Fender works better with the Tonemaster board. Have Fender tweaked it to sound best with their own gear?
I want a squier tele in that exact color combo. A bright yellow with a white pickguard. Modern bridge pins, with a rosewood Kotzen neck.
Actually, I have nothing against modeling; on the contrary, I find it very practical. However, the only reason that keeps me using tube amps and traditional pedals is that as soon as I plug into an FRFR cab or an active speaker, it sounds terrible.
Can someone explain how it works? I understand that for recording on a computer, you’ll always get a good sound-it’s easy. But how do you manage to play live with it? What kind of speaker do you use?
That’s what I don’t understand. It always sounds bad when I try, whereas with a good old tube amp, when I plug it into a passive speaker, there’s absolutely no issue. It’s straightforward.
What am I doing wrong here? This is what I can’t figure out, and it’s the reason I can’t fully switch to digital, even though it’s clearly the future.
Ps: yes I’ve disabled Cab sim etc but it’s still horrible
I've fitted two Katana mk.1 100w amps with Celestion F12-X200 speakers and run the from my Helix floor and that is a very good sound (many good sounds), the big bonus is that my FOH and amp sounds are very similar, so my amp levels matches my FOH sound, I've never had this kind of control before!! Btw. I run the amps return input, not using the preamps at all.
It's not technically an frfr for guitar, but the Bose s1 pro+ is great and has other uses like busking and PA, inputs for mic etc and portable with battery.
I had a Headrush fr108 and it made a huge difference what environment it was set in as to how it sounded. I had gig in a home where we were crammed into a corner and the 108 was up against a wall and I could never get it to sound good. Also it is pretty directional. Might as well go through the pa if using a modeler. Pricing wasn’t mentioned so I’m assuming the demos were in order of low to highest?
Once starting to make guitar amplifying easy, cheap, lightweight und predictable we now need at least four pieces of hardware plus dozens of software. I still go with my Marshall SV20C.
I'd go for the Fender or Laney simply because of looks.
I use the fender frfr10 with my quad cortex and its perfecto
One thing I love about my positive grid FRFR (and the reason I ended up with one) is it has a USB port. You can power a lot of pedals now with USB. I'd love to have an adapter for the 19V output to be more versatile, too.
Have a look at the Cioks 4. I'm using it to power my pedalboard.
@donaldrobidoux4862 this is great! Thank you. My Valetron wants a full 1000mA input. But it's great to know this exists. It's so close.
@@JudeSkys I'm powering my HX Effects no problem with the Cooks 4, so it should works fro you Valeton.
Question, am kind of in a market to look for one since I would likely be going all amp sim/multi fx setup for home and occasionally jamming in the office
Seeing how the Headrush has 2 inputs, I am looking for it to also do vocal, is that the only choice amongst all of these? Would likely add in a Vox.FX too.
Still can't make a decision! Been jumping between the Headrush and Fender! But I was a bit more surprised to see Positive Grid's Cab here. Though I would be unlikely to purchase any Positive Grid stuffs until they fix the way they decide to market/release/support their existing hardware without making them redundant within the same year (looking at you Spark EDGE)
DJ has a nice Charvel! Not a fan of the pink but that neck looks roasted!
Thanks for doing this 😊
I have been using a Hot Rod Deluxe to push a Nano Cortex. Needed the extra power. A Deluxe Reverb didn't have the cojones to do it. I expect a FRFR cabinet will be in my future once I get the floor space. For now, will have to do with the Hot Rod Deluxe. It does sound pretty flat on the clean channel.
I would like to see how a Line6 Powercab 112 or 112 Plus sounds compared to these speakers. The Powercab 112 Plus can be used to model various speakers too, which could offload some DSP from your modeller. I have a 112 Plus but usually run it in FRFR mode. It has plenty of volume and works well with any modeller. Since I normally am playing at home, my FRFR system is the "free" components after upgrading my old home theater: 100 watts per channel into 2 large (stereo) speakers and a 12 inch subwoofer. Or Sennheiser HD600 headphones. The Powercab is for offsite or on the couch in front of the TV. It would be nice to use the TV home theater for my guitar to get stereo, might try to wire that up during the holidays.
My principal in jr. high had a paddle just like the one behind Lee on the wall. lol.
Are the mids scooped out at the source? Cos everything seemed a little bass heavy in the initial play through without tweaks.
Valeton has a new FRFR cab, the Valeton VFR-110 . It's very affordable. Thinking about buying one.
From the recording I would go either Headrush or Laney. All the others sounded either too bassy (Fender) or boxy (Positive Grid). This is always tricky to record a FRFR and it may be better to try it in person...
Final comparison at the end of- was the Fender FRFR still at 50% cut?
Pit the Headrush speaker on it’s side you donut! The writing on the front SCREAMS ‘ON ITS SIDE!’
But now i'm just wondering how they compare to the Valeton VFR-110; will you guys be taking a peek at that when it's available?
I have an Alto 8 inch and pretty much prefer plugging my Helix LT into the Catalyst 60 line in.
Any idea if Fender are going to release a tweed version? It would match my gator Tweed case for my AxeFX. :D
John is a great guitar player 👍
“Cablifier” is kind of what they should be called, thats what they are after all, just amplified cabs. Cap just coined it, he owns it, trademark!
Guys I'm a newb. I have a Friedman IR-J, VP4 and pedals and almost finished building two 4x12 cabinets with Celestion F12-X200 (FR). Should I purchase a tube amp or solid state like Seymour Duncan 700?
Depends on what you intend to do with it, what style of music you play, what the venues require. Do both eventually and you'll have your bases covered. But whatever gets you by now. Having a tube amp to run A/B with the power amp will help to EQ the power amp solution. That way you can leave the tube amp safe at home and gig the power amp.
First 🎉
Im in the market for FRFR Cabs for a while now.
This helps with my desicion. Thanks.
I Like RCF speakers.
So I’m a bit confused… these are cabinets? As in speakers alone? And need to be used with a separate tube head or a transistor head? Or are they combo amps? And if speaker cabs only what heads are you using?
0:12 that's very endearing! 😅
Interesting video especially the last bit, where you could compare side by side. Some switching back and forth would have been nice. I’ve got an frfr from the H-brand and was looking at the Fender. Not anymore…