This Will Make Harley Fans MAD... (But It Shouldn't)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- GET 25% OFF EVERYTHING IN THE CARDO STORE WITH CODE SPITE10 TODAY ONLY! bit.ly/3IUZ1hM
If you like what you saw and want to support the channel, click that subscribe and bell button. If you'd like to help out even more, you can check out / spitescorner
It's official! The Harley - Davidson X350 and X500 are headed to Australia and New Zealand. But will it stop there? Not if H - D is smart. Surely these bikes coming to America won't make anyone mad.
Save Some Cash and Support The Channel
CARDO (10% off with code SPITE10): bit.ly/3IUZ1hM
FLYING EYES (10% off with code SC10): flyingeyesoptics.com/?ref=spi...
Ever wonder what gear I use? Find it here:
STREET GEAR
JACKET - S&S Savage 2.0 - imp.i104546.net/y2eVNW
GLOVES - REV'IT! Metric: imp.i104546.net/LXnMgV
BOOTS - Alpinestars SMX 6 V2: imp.i104546.net/JzJMRe
DIRT GEAR
HELMET - Bell MX9 ADV MIPS: imp.i104546.net/m5zPr7
ARMOR - Fox Racing Titan: imp.i104546.net/NkzMeq
GLOVES - REV'IT! Metric: imp.i104546.net/LXnMgV
BOOTS - Alpinestars Tech3: imp.i104546.net/eKqLJ1
Want to get in touch or get more info about the channel? direct.me/spitescorner
00:00 - Intro
01:55 - The News
06:04 - The Important Part
11:28 - Pissing More People off... - Авто та транспорт
GET 25% OFF EVERYTHING IN THE CARDO STORE WITH CODE SPITE10 TODAY ONLY! bit.ly/3IUZ1hM
As a 17 year old who currently rides a Triumph Speed Twin 900, in my opinion Harley should bring back the Sportster, but with an advanced “441” engine available(~30hp higher than other Harleys, with hidden liquid or oil cooling). I walked into a HD dealer and they tried to sell me a brand new Heritage Softail(have a TINY bit of daddy’s money), however I left and got a new KLX300SM instead(then traded(not evenly) later for my new Triumph), this happened when I was 16 and had only passed the MSF a few days prior.
Note that I’m a little “sport bike” bitch boi and not the standard Harley rider size or masculinity level(not small, just used to ONLY playing video games and RARELY having to pick Bonnie back up).
Thanks for the discount code Spite! I needed a new cardo and 25% off pushed me to actually pick one up.
I own a CFmoto 650NK (in New Zealand) and will test ride the X500 soon. I love the Chinese motorcycles. My local Ducati/Triumph/Kawasaki dealership is my CFmoto Agent and the service is excellent.
Living in the Asia/Pacific region i prioritise quality Chinese products over items from Indonesia/Vietnam/Pakistan/India
I took my MSF course this year through Harley Riding Academy, we were told that here in the US, the X350 is only here to replace the Street 500 for the Riding Academy. Also, Harley salesmen will tell you anything they sell is a beginner bike.
IMO this is the same reason why some HD dealers are selling Royal Enfields. The most expensive RE is what, $8k out the door?
The cheapest HD in there starts at 13k. They're missing a huge market segment.
Those are the smart shops. If you have Enfields at 7-8k your probably selling bikes all day.
I'm gonna say HD probably aren't interested in catering to the entry level market or new riders. They and a lot of their users seem to be convinced that Harleys are aspirational vehicles that everyone will eventually want to buy.
I wish them a very pleasant buyout from Royal Enfield or Polaris in a few years.
I'm surprised none of the big 3 US car brands tried to buy HD
😅😅 I agree with this statement.
I agree with you about HD's preferred focus. HD feels this is where their strengths are. And this is why I disagree with the video premise that HD offer smaller displacement cycles. Leica isn't criticized for a lack of low-end cameras. The crucial difference is that Leica is with this approach while HD's circumstances are increasingly problematic. I think HD should stay open to the idea of smaller displacement cycles. But more power to them if they pull a rabbit out of the hat and come up with a way to stay high-end only.
Would it make any sense for Harley to buy/start up a second "minor league" brand for smaller, cheaper motorcycles? Like how GM has Chevy and Cadillac? Or Honda/Acura or VW/Audi? Could Harley introduce a second brand to serve as their Chevy/Honda/VW while keeping their flagship models all labeled as Harley and held in Cadillac/Acura/Audi-like esteem?
The top models from their minor brand could run the full-sized Harley engine, but just be stripped down on comfort/tech stuff. Or vice-versa... include 90% of the tech but then also require buyers to step up to a "real" Harley to get the full-size engine if Harley still wants to keep the label of being the big manly man company.
Totally agree. There's a ton of people in the millennial generation and younger that would love to own a Harley but nope out when they see the price tag. We can barely afford a place to live, don't make it any harder for us. And gtfo out of here with the financing thing, we're not all financially illiterate.
Nothing is more America post 2000 than having a Chinese company make a Harley.
Brazil and (I think) India has been building harleys for a very long time.
True lol
They'll be making clones of us soon.
I've said this before, but I don't think the Harley dealers will want to sell them because there isn't enough markup in them. Harley needs an alternate retail channel if they want to sell cheap motorcycles.
I dunno man. It's like that BMW G 310GS. You want that gateway drug. Get the new riders in and give them a taste of something awesome. Hook them on your brand and they'll be back for more expensive stuff if they did their job. The trick there is... those entry level bikes have to be super compelling while still making those riders want to upgrade a year or two after that initial purchase. But yeah, Harley will screw this up hugely. No doubt.
And those dealerships eventually will go out of business with that strategy and mindset. The majority of HD riders aren't going to want a 350cc bike, so the majority of the market will still have high markups. But if you refuse to give new customers a reason to enter your store, you will eventually run out of returning customers.
@@izaacmp That’s what’s happening.
Please don't try an Aussie accent again. 🤣 BTW Rant incoming, but not for the reasons you predicted.
I was really excited to visit a Harley dealership for the firs time in my life (I'm 53 btw) when they arrive in December after the announcement & test ride both bikes. But then HD released the pricing & the HD tax is real, even on their Chinese models.
Pricing in Australia is "Ride Away", which includes all fees & taxes plus 12 months registration. The X350 ride away price starts at $8,495 AUD & the X500 is $11,495 AUD. To put that in perspective, the CFMOTO 650MT Adventure bike is currently $200 cheaper than the X350 & the 700CL-X Adventure is $5 cheaper than the X500. CFMOTO has been in Australia for almost 2 decades, so they're not the new kid on the block like they are in the US. In Kawasaki money, the Ninja 400 is only $500 more than the X350 & the Z400 is just $35 more, while I have my pick of the entire Honda 500 range for less than the X500 - CL500 $10,154, CMX500 $10,513, CB500F $10,699, CBR500R $11,184 & CB500X $11,390. Even the KTM Duke 390, the best selling naked bike in Australia, is $8,195, $300 cheaper than the X350. To add to the insult, the Benelli Leoncino 500, essentially the same as the X500, is $8,990 here. WTF Harley Davidson?
I have no doubt that the X350 & X500 will sell in Australia, but the pricing is a big misstep, especially on the X500. I can't help but think that anyone who rides away with the X500 would feel royally ripped off if they saw the Benelli price after they'd done the deal. Australia has such a competitive motorcycle market, especially in the sub 660cc learner legal market where the X350 & X500 sits, but HD's pricing is way out. While everyone else is writing their prices with a sharp pencil, HD is writing theirs in crayon. I see a future of sales targets not being met & discounts aplenty in HD's future with these models, especially wit the Triumph 400's landing here a month later in January.
Neither bike really competes with the superb Duke 390. The 350 has way less power, the 500 has way more weight, and they both look like fugly trail bikes. And overpriced.
Those new little triumph bikes also look the business. The new import Harley Davidson bikes look pretty ugly next to them.
CFMoto is doing fine with reliability.
"youre supporting china" *posted from chinese phone after watching on a chinese laptop*
Source: He owns one.
@@spitescorner also the guy at the dealership that I bought mine from basically says they don't hardly ever see them come back in for anything mechanical.
most of the repairs that aren't caused by the actual owner are electrical but Even then they don't come in with those issues more than any other brand that they sell.
I haven't had a single issue.
Reminds me when I was a kind in the 90's, hearing a certain.. demographic... talk about japanese cars as unreliable. "Jap Crap" was the phrase thrown round. How does that opinion land today? Aged like milk. 😆
That same demographic happens to be harleys core audience. But here's the thing, that's not the audience these new bikes are targeting, so, it's kind of a non issue what they think. It's not like they're gonna sell up their Road Kings in disgust and never buy another full size harley is it?
So, why don't we have both? /el paso kid
@@SummitCoyote how long have you had your CFMoto and which model?
Soon all bikes will be built in either China or India..
as a 21 year old who got his license at the beginning this year (I'm in europe btw) and I got a 1995 softail EVO as my first bike and I absolutely love it. the issue is is that I got it second hand because even as someone who lives at home and has barely any expenses, I cannot afford a brand new harley for SURE
Excellent choice
Continue to buy bikes used
One of the best things you can do for yourself
I was in my mid 30s when I finally got my first new one
I watched a very interesting video from MC Rider where he topic was listed as something like "Harley riders are the worst riders". Of course I had to watch that! His theory is that so many young and new riders grew up around Harleys and that is the only brand they want. But Harley doesn't offer a "beginner" bike, mostly because they can't sell them. So this brand new rider goes out and buys an 800 pound Harley that is way too much for them to handle in anything except a straight line. It was interesting.
I agree with you that HD need to have a more affordable entry bike to the marque. A lot of new riders tend to stick with the brand that they started out on, so, HD will definitely missing a trick if they don't make the 500 available to beginners.
The Buell blast 500 is a Harley engine in a naked bike frame. It's qurky but you can find a good deal on one.
It is a good thing! I'm happy to see these companies like HD and Triumph coming out with these smaller displacement bikes. More affordable and practical, good competition for a lot of these other companies that have been coming out with smaller displacement bikes for years now.
Also, Harley doesn't exactly have a good choice for a beginner bike with the Nightster being their cheapest new bike for around 14 or 15 k, so these bikes would be great for them to have as an option
"more affordable" and "harley" don't go in the same sentence.
Yeah but triumph made a new bike. It was not a rebadging.
I went to the HD dealership to pick up a part for my 2005 Sportster 1200 custom and there was not a new Sportster under 17k. The floor was loaded with bikes and no one looking except me. I believe HD days are numbered. Oh, a T shirt was $50!
@@RiverRat1953 Geez! Didn't know it was that bad! Who in their right mind will buy a Sportster for 17k?!! The only bike from HD I'd be interested in is the Low Rider ST, but it's just too expensive for me to justify the purchase. I'll stick to my cheaper bikes that I can outfit to be able to do the exact same thing
Agree on your thoughts. You should check out Harley Davidson x440 build with colab from Hero India. The motorcycle has been launched 2months back and the production unit will get rolled out by October. Many Harley owners and reputed moto journalists were pissed of initially with the idea, but the product has been well received after test rides. Now they've crossed 30k bookings in 1 month, my booking has been postponed to November.
Everybody seems to forget that this isn't the first time Harley has tried this. They invested in Aermacchi in the 60's and offered many badge engineered/captive imports under their own name. They were reasonably successful but there was corporate mismanagement that almost killed the whole brand that did kill their captive imports.
I totally agree with you Spite, sometimes less is more. I also would like to watch your comments on the Harley Davidson X 440 that's been made by Hero Motocorp in India. Cheers mate.
The problem Harley is going to have is the same problems they had with the XG500 and XG750. They won't know how to market them and the dealers aren't going to want to sell them. Honestly, the dealerships will be they death of Harley because they are a huge part of why Harley's attempts to branch out fail.
That was my same reaction that you can learn on it but can't buy one. It would be such a streamlined process to sell those little bikes. They'd be minting money doing that. They could do one better and ditch the dealer fee or offer a discount if you go through their course.
Yes you are totally right. Maybe Harley just want to be in the higher luxuary segment just like Ducati. They are afraid that if everyone ride their bikes the hype goes away and decrease the brand. They want us to dream about their bikes and in the long run buy it. But to many seems to dream and their business model slowly dies
Took the MSF course over the weekend at my local Harley dealer, they had the X350 as the trainer bikes, the instructors said they will be used for 3 years and then destroyed as they aren't street legal in the US. With that said it was a fun little bike, but I opted to use the street 500. this bike certainly is not a Harley, but I'm sure some will slip through the cracks and wind up on the streets
Biggest thing with this is if they do bring it to the US, they need to follow it up with a major culture shift in the dealership. Test rode a Buell in 2003 for my second bike and was told I didn't want that thing... 5 years later went back to test ride a (sadly not well known) VRSCR Street Rod and was once again told I don't want that thing. Harley sales people only know how to sell Harley's to old guys only getting older.
Looking at a XB9R now for $3000 with 7K miles. I can tolerate taking a hit on replacing things for that price.
I can imagine them missing it, lol. Personally I have no idea why they didnt make a 883 adventure after seeing some of the custom built sportster adventure bikes.
That lump of an engine is to big and heavy for an adventure bike. What the should do is bring back the 750 revo x and build a midsize,light, adv bike around it. Without all the trills and spills from the PanAm.
BAND-MAID!!!
IDK, dude. With so many smaller CC bikes on the market for so much less, I just can’t get over that Harley just doesn’t seem to care about the consumer. I can get a brand new royal enfield for $3-5k and spend another $3-5k tricking it out in whatever style I want, and still spend thousands less than getting a stock Harley.
After taking the MSF course with Harley, I grew to like the Street 500 I used for 3 days. The instructor said the exact ones we used would be up for sale after fresh maintenance, and fixing any cosmetic blemishes. Each bike would be $3000. But taking the course in July, I didn’t want to wait until November for them to go on sale. Since there ain’t many of them out there, I opted for a Yamaha Vstar 650. They could’ve had my business early on if they sold them here.
I am an MSF coach at a Harley dealer and our new training bikes are X350s. The X350s are only here in the US as training bikes.
I will say, unless they will be offering better seat options, the X350s will not sell well. They are unbelievably uncomfortable, tall and short riders alike. I am 6'3 and put 35 miles on one for break-in.
I could not wait to get off of it. My other shorter coaches who were also riding one felt the same, so it isn't the height issues. Its not even the more sport bike riding position. The seat is like 1/2 an inch thick and the suspension is incredibly stiff. Think unloaded heavy duty truck.
Unless they make changes to the X350 or the X500 is different, no one will want one from a comfort standpoint.
“Not at this price, though.”
Amen. That’s pretty much why I don’t roll that way.
Honestly if they price it in accordance with the level of finish that it comes with, it should sell well and that will hopefully get the dealers on board. But weight, finish, price point, and getting dealers on side will all he hurdles to overcome.
Harley better keep an eye on maintaining quality....Harley had a bad history with low cap shitty rebadges in the 70/80's.
@@brokeandtired I will give 10 to 1 odds, they will have constant problems and be yet another Blackeye for HD.
@@spartanx169xbenellis are actually good bikes though not powerful but good enough for someone like a learner
@@h3llb3nt nah. I refuse to buy rebadged stuff. Hands on R&D on some level is absolutely necessary. For example BMW g310 is a good way to go about things. Or the triumph 400. Those aren't rebadged.
@@bulthaosen1169 the r&d is already done by benelli? Im sure some plastics wont affect the bike but my fear is the manufacturing and not r&d and whether you like it or not Chinese quality is vastly improving compared to indian made bikes
I think it is an excellent idea and i believe the need to do it as well. Would love for them to do the 500 and either make a scrambler version as well or at least have after market to do so, just like Triumph. This would hopefully be a good starter to then transition to ADV.
H-D should take a page from Apple's playbook and label these entry-level bikes with, "Designed in Milwaukee".
Agree with every word you said. I think the Rebel 500 is the ideal bike to compare to.
When people ask me what bike they should first buy, I always say Rebel 500. It is plenty to live with, easy to learn on, and provides enough power that you will last at least a few months before getting bored. It also has enough aftermarket support so people can get into the idea of modifying.
The fact the harley does not have adequate competition to the rebel, or the lower MTs, or *insert name of asian bike here* is a monumental fail and always has been. I think it shows in the sales numbers.
You treat someone exceptionally well when they have no money, they will remember you when they have more.
There will be a ton of used HDs on the market in the next decade as more Boomers dump them. However, they will be skipped because of HD dealer repair rates.
Same boat on Harleys. I’m a late 30s dude new to motorcycling, and I love cruisers. Not once did I consider buying a Harley because they’re too expensive. I could have afforded it, just can’t justify it. Went with a used Victory and I’ve been having a blast for a fraction of the price, and more power than I know what to do with yet. My wife checked out the Iron883 and a Rebel 500, went with the Rebel for her, again because of the price.
I've lived in China since 2011 (I'm Irish), and I've been traveling here for over 20 years. When it comes to manufacturing of engines/bikes/vehicles here, the progress in the last fifteen years or so has been incredible. In the mid 2000's-early 2010s, the idea of Chinese cars and bikes being comparable to Western/Japanese brands was ludicrous, the tech and materials were at least a decade behind the best from overseas. Today, that's not the case, and in my opinion China has already overtaken the West & Japan in one key area - EVs. There are around two dozen major EV marques all with a full range of vehicle types, from SUVs to sedans to compacts, all with amazing tech, competitive range, etc.etc.
To get back to bikes, I see it as similar to what happened with British bikes and Japanese bikes in the 70's. Chinese bikes have had such a bad reputation for so long, that a lot of riders have dismissed them entirely, and I agree with your assessment that this could be a huge oversight in the very near future. There are lots of very good, reliable, cheap bikes being made here, and if one or two companies establish a partnership to begin selling in bulk in North America, they could really take over a large chunk of the market.
I actually like the look of the Street Rod, too and totally agree, "Not at that price tho!" As far as the beginner bike thing, it seems to me that they totally rely on Honda for that. Lol I've lost count of how many Harley riders I've heard say they started on a Rebel or Shadow.
I think a smaller cc starter bike would be a great thing. I thought the street series was a great idea. HD use to have the hummer and sprints. Both great bikes
How the hell are they so heavy
It has a harley badge so it doesn't matter
Pretty sure the Benelli is heavy too. Probably just a beefy frame.
We as a nation did not choose the China route. The politicians and bus moguls did that to us.
I have owned a Chinese bike before. All the damn bolts were crap on them. Then defends sending more shit to China because "we are already doing it"
No Rage from me: I agree that HD needs to entice the younger market. This would make sense. Also, to use it in their MSF class would make for an easy bridge-to-sale. HD needs to get those newly printed "M" endorsed drivers licenses to buy a HD bike (and not a 800+ lb., 1750cc touring beast!). Something more akin to a 500 or 650 or even 750 import. Nice Vid. Keep it up!
we have the 350 here in the dealerships. had them for a while, but they are for Riding Academy use, not for sale. But a lot of us agreed that if HD made one of those bikes, but with the 975 motor of the nightster, we would buy one on a heartbeat.
When I picked up my 2006 custom 883. I asked how much of my motorcycle, was made in the USA. I was told 0. It's a great motorcycle. I've have had sense February 2006. 0 problems. I love it. I'm older and looking for a lighter motorcycle. I'm all for it. And I don't want to spend my last 10 years working to pay for a new bike. Good job on this video.👍
I noticed that the 3 local HD dealers in my area started selling off their Street 500's that were used in their MSF courses. So I guess weather or not they sell the new ones here in the US is yet to be seen but, they are replacing the MSF course bikes, have yet to see what the replacement ride is going to be.
I took the Harley course on a Street 500, then bought a new XL883N in 2022, I felt the Sporty was easier to handle than the Street 500, go figure. It's nice in town, but not so nice on the highway.
Going to learn 2 up so I can go on adventures with the old lady, so I'm thinking Heritage Classic, then Road King 114 either special or FLHP add all the touring goodies.
I hope HD figures out how to be successful in the "entry level" market, that would benefit HD and the customer base.
Man, people aren't going to buy those here. They are going to get clowned riding those China Davidsons.
For sure bring the x350 to the states. It's by far the best looking HD to date.
I don’t really believe in the term “beginner bike” the first bike I rode was a 78 shovel 25 years ago. The first bike I bought after 25 years of not riding was a 2020 street glide. You can learn on anything, as long as your comfortable with it in your head. The only problem with Harley is price point. As far as Harley’s business decisions……that’s Harley’s business. Great video!
Australia has a pretty similar geography and demographic to the USA. Our license requirements are under 660cc for the first two years and then you need to re-test for your open class. I am pretty sure we are going to be a test market for HD with the X500. I can't see the X350 doing well though. I could be wrong on the 350 though. Sydney and Melbourne are sprawling urban areas similar to LA and the 350 might be a choice as a strict commuter bike. The other cities tend to be more suburban and have a lot of hills around them, quickly transitioning to rural areas. You need a bigger engine for that type of riding. I am excited to see how it goes even though I ride a Sportster S and am not personally looking backward.
I agree with almost all of your comment, but Australia absolutely does not have a similar demographic to the states. The difference is that (35 year old from Ga) you are literally shamed by Harley riders for riding a bike that isn’t a Harley, unless you are one of the people here that ride another brand. Spite and a few others have channels that receive good views, but the market in the States is absolutely dominated by big Harley Davidsons, and we are almost programmed to only think of Harleys as motorcycles. Harley can charge so much because they are selling a lifestyle and an identity. We really don’t have any globally competitive motorcycles made here. Our entire country can’t come up with a moto GP entry. As a whole, we aren’t interested in good motorcycles. I ride a GS Boxer personally. Spite rides imports too….
But we are a really low percent of the population. Every other country I’ve been to looks at bikes differently as a whole. America is weird.
@@adammfharris nah, mate he's right. As an American who's lived/been all over in the States and spent a year riding around and working in Australia, the demographics are pretty similar. No doubt there's cultural differences, but we're more alike than not.
Actually, there’s quite a lot of Harley bashing in the States. For myself, I see the value in all bikes and find that people typically compare apples to oranges. Spite is right about the price points. Many hardcore Harley riders, including myself, buy used bikes due to the second mortgage, indentured servitude and the act of parting with a kidney that you have to go through. I wouldn’t mind a brand spanking new Harley, but my 2003 Fat Boy is pretty darn spectacular as far as cruiser riding experiences go.
Despite my rage I am still just a rat in a caaaaage!
Wait, was I supposed to be angry? *Gets off sportster*
I DO think that they need a plausible beginner friendly bike, but I just don't understand why they cannot actually make one instead of outsourcing one.
Dude no kidding! I'd love a USA made Harley beginner bike, but with 883 gone it seems unlikely.
Back in the late 60's my first bike was a used 1966 50cc Italian built Harley when I was 12 years old. I didn't know squat about cycles except that I wanted one. I rode the crap out of that thing around the farm and neighborhood and learned how to keep it running. Since then I've owned dual sports, road bikes, baggers, (Suzuki, Honda, Harley) one at a time as finances would allow. I've recently entered the adventure bike arena with a BMW gs800 added to a DRZ400, Harley Ultra limited and a Bultaco I'm restoring. I've ridden thru 49 states and 4 Canadian provinces.
All that to say you have to get young people on bikes if you're looking to have lifelong riders. I say yes to smaller, cheaper "entry level" bikes, 350's and 500's without all the bells and whistles, keep the price down and offer a more equiped model. Although the weights shown for these bikes seems quite heavy. And they would get people into the dealerships and of course everyone will buy a tee shirt.
As for the adventure market, the Pan American is a fantastic bike, but as I get older, I'm looking for smaller displacement lighter weight machines. My BMW is harder to pick up than my Harley for me so weight is a factor.
As for bikes made in China, I hate supporting the CCCP but they are the cheapest producer at this time. That may change.
I think they need to do more both small displacement and try different engine types could you imagine a sportster with a large displacement parallel twin or an inline 4 ! I can and if they do that i can almost guarantee the younger riders will definitely be on board!
I can tell you for certain from experience the most reliable thing on the hawk is that cg230 pushrod motor. I have 60k+ gps recorded miles on my 2016 hawk. Welds have failed. Suspension has failed. Swingarm has failed. Fasteners have failed. But that motor just keeps on keeping on.
There's a problem in how companies in the US treats their employees too.
Look at Harley X440 from India. It's developed along with Hero motocorp. Costs around $4k.
you're spot on regarding the sportster 975... i wanted to upgrade from my beginner rebel 500 and it was definitely in my list... i m in my mid 30s and sure i could buy that in cash... and i don't mind paying a little premium for the HD brand name... but it's just wayyy overpriced than it's competitors... plus all the accessories and HD dealer fees are over the top as well...
I liked the 500 and 750 V twins. The china parallel twins will probably be OK bikes. But the reason I would not touch them is the HD dealers and how they treat people. And the way the HD cult fan boys will treat everyone riding one of these with derision. I don't don't need that crap in my life. HD's biggest problem is Harley owners.
On the subject of things being made in China. Harley -Davidson has had a manufacturing partnership with Zongshen since 2007. Zongshen also has agreements with BMW, Piaggio and MTD lawn mowers. Also BMW has been having engines and other parts made in China since 2007. It was absolutely no surprise to me when KTM started making engines there. I have a CSC TT250 which is made by Zongshen that I commuted on for over 2 years and put over 17K miles on before I had an issue. I had a bearing in the trans go bad which was likely by fault because I got stuck in traffic and the bike got too hot. I even took it on a couple of 250 mile trips including one that was 115 miles of running wide open on the freeway. I'd say that's pretty good for a bike that only cost me $3,000 brand new.
1000% Harley needs to bring in a more affordable option for up and coming riders.
There's a reason when I went to my nearest Harley dealer I bought a used MT09 instead 🤣
I’m interested in getting the 2023 yzf-r7, I’m 5’10 & 160lbs and mostly plan on riding daily but sometimes on the backroads. I’d be switching over from a 370z w/ 16mpg and I was wondering if you would recommend it and if so some good dealership’s in the Austin area
I’m a bit crazy. I’d love to have a street Rod 750 for around town.
Right now they seem happy with the 975 but I see the logic in a smaller bike, especially for their own schools
HD is like the guy who must quit smoking or hell die- but keeps on smoking. HD knows what must be done, knows it will benefit them, are capable of doing it but REFUSES to.
Harley should bring back the Servi-Car (with springer forks like the pre-1958 ones had). Utility and style. What's not to love?
Spite isn't a young, new rider with a limited amount of money and experience, but I am and I've thought about all of these things. I think the biggest problem with Harley's are affordability and they need to thin the hurd. Royal Enfield is finding success in cheap, classic, and reliable motorcycles and Harley could do the exact same thing but they keep looking too high for the market and think they can only compete with indian and triumph in terms of modern classics like playing catch up with the Sportster s and panamerica to compete with the scout and tiger. They need to bring back the 883 at a cheap price to take from royal enfield and to get people with less money into the ecosystem and give these bikes a warranty to sweeten the deal. They also need to focus their lineup and trim the fat, so best idea is to bring back 883, keep sportster s, keep low rider and heritage softails, only keep one of the glides, and keep the panamerica. Finally, they need to introduce a middleweight sport bike with or without a fairing to compete with mt07s, r7s, triumph tridents, etc so they can actually compete with the big four as even they are losing sport bike sales to naked bikes that are more comfortable.
All the time and money HD is putting into trikes tells you all you need to know about who they view as their customers.
I would have bought a Bronx even though I don't like that name for a motorcycle. I thought it was the best looking H-D. I think they should do one better than bring a foreign made H-D. They should rename the Bronx and release here with a 500cc engine.
I have had arguments with Harley guys, the Sportster S is a mid-range bike, you can tell just by looking at it but their reply is that Harley Davidson says it's a beginner bike. Look at the power output but Harley Davidson says it's a beginner bike. Look at the price Harley Davidson says it's a beginner bike. Saying someone told you the sky is green doesn't make it so
Thanks for the cardo deal, wish they were a bit cheaper to begin with, but 25% definitely helped
It’s interesting when you start out. I had a Harley dealership try to tell me that a street bob 114 would be alright to start out on. I started on a Yamaha bolt and now moved up to a road king. If anyone asks me 500 rebel or if naked bike ktm duke 390, Harley bike sportster 883 used if starting out with no riding experience.
HD is not just a motorcycle it's a culture. Do you really think somebody buying a 350/500 badged with HD will be welcomed with open arms?
The fact that HD is coming with Benelli clones makes me excited for more aftermarket parts. I have a Leoncino 500 and absolutely love it!
I can see the getting mad, but it's not because of quality or whatever other reasons were mentioned. The issue is that if a low cost bike is introduced to the US and sells, then Harley, like every other American manufacturer before it, will be tempted to move all production to a low cost market. Again, technically there's nothing wrong with that, but there is something to be said for a product that retains a link to a place, a people and a history. Aerostitch could drop its prices dramatically by shipping their products overseas, but it's nice to be able to go for a tour of the factory and actually meet the people who make the clothes. Red Wing moved most of its production overseas, but it's nice that some boots are still 100% American made. So, sure, Harley can bring low cost bikes from China to the US. It did many times in the past from other countries. But, it should keep its identity as an American company by producing its main bikes here.
These look pretty cool. If HD would just make one a little bigger - at least a 750cc equivalent, I would buy it. I've long felt that Harley should make a naked street bike similar in style to the Triumph Bonneville or any of the Royal Enfield retro street bikes (not a cruiser, they already make plenty of those). I bet they would sell like hot cakes.
I ride a GL1100 it’s been my first bike for almost a year now, part of me wants a smaller displacement engine (EDIT:or at least a couple less cylinders) bike to try some things out on and hone skills. As long as it’s reliable and easy to wrench on the country of origin isn’t an issue.
I think I grew abs with my laughter when you hit the phrase, “Fuck you! You can’t!”
I think the x440 which they made with Hero is a truer Harley. Idk why they wont release that instead of the x350. It literally makes you feel like youre riding a little Harley.
My favorite bike ever is a 1980 XT500. Singles are a lot of fun and have a lot of character. Think if Harley had made the SV650....but nope. Seems like the people running the company are in a weird cult sometimes 😂 😂
My first bike currently is 05 yamaha vstar 650 and other than it roasting my inner thigh cause i bought exhaust with no heat shielding its a great bike for 300 dollars, not saying it has to be that cheap but get the younger generations in the brand and they will buy the 30-40k bikes when they can
"Are you ready to see all of the fireworks?". UA-cam calls "fireworks" engagement.
Well said Spite, the Brits didn't adapt to the changes brought about by the Japanese, now the British brands are owned by the Indians, who are doing a phenomenal job. Now, Americans need to adapt to what the Chinese bring to the party, because they are only going to keep getting better... it's insane to put a new rider on a big bike. I followed a guy on a V-rod this morning, it was painful watching a guy ride a bike that was clearly beyond his capabilities. Start small and build your experience up, to get to big ...
I want a blank tank from the 500 to try on my Leoncino....what makes me excited is there are bound to be a larger aftermarket for my Benelli now.
I road the 350 at MSF course. It’s a fun little bike but if you wear a shoe size 10us you will absolutely hate the foot controls. Bike felt light and very maneuverable. Several of the bikes had wiring issues with headlights. I wouldn’t pay more than $5000 out the door for one. Very low budget build.
Not a chance Harley will bring those bikes to North America/Europe. They got rid of all their cheaper entry level bikes for each class to push people to buy the more expensive ones. Those India made Harley motorcycles are for India, SE Asia, China, Africa, and South America.
I feel like if they do sell these in the states, it's just going to be the same issue they had with the Street series.
they'll barley sell, if at all mostly in mediocre numbers to enthusiast that want to ride a HD that isn't "really" a HD, or the beginners that aren't brushed off by the brands insistence that an 1200 sportster is a "beginner" girls bike.
They'll fill spots at the MSF course, last a few years and die out like the streets did. HD just isn't concerned with new riders cos the retiree's still buy the 30k road glides every year or two, once they stop getting retirement checks, if they're not floating belly up in the water they'll throw back out the 883, or they're revive the street series at double the price
HD has to change with the market. Vehicles are less important to younger generations.
They aren't going to buy motorcycles that are more expensive than the cars they are buying.
Here we go, again. Aermacchi, the Street what ever and now the Hung lee Davidson 350 and 500. Have I missed one? The Hung lee is going to have to come out at a price point, and it better be good. The light weight bike market is huge and it is filled with excellent choices for consumers, already.
As an Australian, I've got to say, Americans just don't understand this segment of the market, at all. Especially Harley Davidson. It's all about cheap and easy. A couple of thousand dollars gets an inner city student on a used Honda 125. Double the money, and the middle class kid from the suburbs in on a used R3. The rich kid in the nice part of town is on a brand new kwaka 400, for about $9k local (c.6kUSD).
The Hung Lee Davidson is going to have to come in at a seriously low price point to compete in our market. And to take a foot hold, it's going to have to be good. Honda good, Yamaha good, Kawasaki good. And that's just our market. Then there is the whole South East Asian market to contend with. Would you like a Honda Super Cub with your fries?
The Indians take brand loyalty to the next level when it comes to Royal Enfield. Good luck, Harley Davidson, making a dent in their market with a light/middle weight bike. And really good luck if you can sell a Chinese made bike to the Indians! Have you thought about that!
Yep, one of the largest emerging markets in the world and not a single consideration for social and political considerations within that market. Well done, Harley Davidson. Top market research, pat yourselves on the back and then get back to your Livewire project. That's right, where are you up to on that? Oh, still at the market research stage. Let us know what the consumers want so I can confidently by shares in the company.
I get why people love their Harleys. I really do. But the company is rudderless. Will Harley fans be mad at this decision? Probably. But not because Harley Davidson are introducing a "cheap" (yeah right) Chinese bike to the market. They'll be mad because they're the ones that are going to have to pick up the tab for it when they pick up their new Dyna. Whoops, there is no Dyna.
Or Road King. Whoops, again. VRod? Now I'm just being silly.
There's a reason that Harley Davidsons are expensive. Someone has to pay for the boardroom's mistakes.
I got to ride one of these motorcycles before they were officially rolled out as the new beginner course training bike at Harley. It was fun to ride actually. If they bring them to the US market I’d buy it but maybe only used not brand new at Harley pricing
Indian should also follow suit here. Smaller displacement is the only way to attract newer,younger people. Get them young and give them quality machines and they will be customers for life
I'm with ya, Spite. Harley needs an entry level bike. I bought an 883 (still $$$), but I might have bought my first motorcycle sooner if they had a cheaper option available. And they would have had me returning to upgrade at some point, I'm sure. As it is, they got 1 new motorcycle sale out of me and they could have had 2.
Its been almost 20 years since I've stepped foot into a Harley Davidson dealership..... It's looking like it's not happening anytime soon.
Why wouldn't Harley not want to do this. They need a true small urban bike. If they price it right it will sell. It's kinda like a gateway drug. Get them early when they are a new rider.
I like buying old bikes and restoring them for little money and riding them. You can find some serious gems out there man. Old bikes are great. Don't think you need to run out to the dealership and finance a brand new bike.. Plus then I sell them and I get another one and then I do it to that one every year
In the 90’s it was difficult to buy American products. Now you have to be a monk to achieve that. Nobody cared in the 80’s and 90’s and now they’re hungover trying to scramble out of an unfamiliar bedroom half dressed and go to the doctor to get tested, trying to remember how they got there but not wanting to.
As i recall HD said flat out that they have no interests in the entry leve motorcycle market.
I definitely would agree that HD needs a lower priced entry into the brand kind of bike.
God, I can spot a 919 from like a quarter of a mile away. I miss that bike so fucking much.
I bought an 02 roadking as my first bike. It wasnt a great idea but it never went terribly either. If harley had sold a sub $10k bike that was more tourable than a sportster I would have jumped at it. Even now id love a smaller basic dynaesque bike. My favorites bikes they sell are the street bob and softail standard but theyre way too expensive ive seen dealers mark the softail standard up to $18k when they came out they were sub 13k most places i saw selling them. They made sense. They were a basic premium motorcycle at a not insane price now? Now theyre just getting ridiculous. Id love a new harley but its just so much more unjustifiable now than it was 3 years ago
You know how you dont kill motorcycles? By adding a smaer cc for new riders. The ole ones are dying off. You need to create a new market for new riders. Price point is amazing. I love this move. Harley needs to add more smaller ccs bikes. Love this by them!!!❤❤
I live in central America there are a lot of Chinese bikes here the Freedom line which is Chinese knockoffs of Japanese bikes like the Honda Rebel 250 that have been around since the mid 80s and some adv bikes that look a lot like the African Twins to name a few are really popular and cheap. I was told that most people buy them and ride them for two or three years until it falls apart and then they junk it and go buy another one.
You are right this is one of the issues with stuff now and since the 80s stuff is not made to last. In the past people repaired things and use them for decades they are throw away now and that the governments fault they pushed it on the people. What is funny is there are people complaining about the amount of waste and the government backs them up but it is these same governments that encourage a form of consumerism that promotes a throw away society because things are make with a built in experation date so you purchase again and again instead of purchasing once and it lasting for decades.
I am not a HD person so I do not care if they do what everyone else is doing, but you asked "Does Harley Davidson need a better entry level bike?" Yes, I do not consider any HD bike an entry level bike.
Harley should be making smaller displacement bikes similar to the Nightster but less aggressive. I test rode one and although it handles perfectly, it's still a bit forward for a beginner rider to feel confidence without really getting into a forward stance.
This is coming from someone who owns a road glide.
P twin is a parallel twin ,never heard it called that before, thought they had something different,I bet it has 270 crank like most of the parallel twins
Benelli is a 360 degree crank isn't it? On the 500 range
There are so many cheaper alternatives to Harley which are better options. However, I haven’t drank the koolaid, but I can at least understand that when you buy a Harley you’re buying into a lifestyle. That being said, if you’re a new rider and want a cruiser there are MUCH cheaper and better built examples that can get you your “outlaw” card.
You’re mistaken. There may be cheaper options, but not better. And I think you need to go back and look at everyone else’s cruiser prices. Don’t compare a rebel 500 to a fucking road glide and talk about cost. So goddamn tired of this retarded argument.
I've worked in Benelli, most Benelli bikes are rebadged QJ and they are bland, generic, and boring. The only tech feature you get from it is ABS and to think, this is Leoncino 250, 500, and 800cc we are talking about, their flagship bike. 😬
But damn, that price tag is undeniably attractive. Benelli is a good beginner/starter bike.
This is nothing new for Harley, they did something similar back in the late 60's. They sold a 125cc Aermacchi called the Rapido.
Harley needs a wider range, mainly at the smaller end, to bring in new riders. BUT, will these come to the US? Maybe not. This is a mistake as Harley could continue to offer large, heavy, S-L-O-W bikes as well as a range of cheaper, lighter, faster, better handling etc etc. It doesnt have to be Either-Or, it can be both.
$11k isn't bad for a learner legal bike in Australia. There are Yamaha XVS 650 learner bikes selling for $12k USED 🤷♂️