It being a 5x open from UTG in a straddled pot with an older nitty V in UTG1 makes it pretty far from a normal single raised pot. V might have no clue about the dynamic with the bad straddler, he might just see a gigantic open from the strongest position.
@@88mphDrBrown It's a weird situation. $50 is an enormous open for most 2/5 games. But there's a $10 straddle, and they're super-deep, and hero is UTG, where a larger open size isn't unusual. It makes me wonder if V would have 3B a smaller open from hero, or if V just doesn't have any 3B range at all, perhaps because he's uncomfortable playing so deep, but then that doesn't really jive with him calling hero's over-bets on later streets. I fit the description the caller gave for this V, and I'm going to 3B here with AKs 100% of the time, regardless of stack depth. I really can't figure out how V shows up with AKs here.
@@1vailchris5x is very large and already accounting for the straddle. I'd expect a "standard" UTG open in that spot to be like 25-35. I don't know what you're talking about with "larger open sizes from UTG isn't unusual"... you gain nothing, there's almost no dead money to fight for, it just puts you at a larger risk OOP, and simplifies everyone else's decisions. I'm not trying to be mean or judgemental. I just don't know what you're talking about. Hero's justification was solely an exploit on the straddler, which seems okay.
@@88mphDrBrown as someone else point out, even if V does know the dynamic with the straddle, I could see flatting with AKs. Maybe he wants to try and keep the fishy straddle in the hand? And if someone squeezes and folds out the fun player he can easily then 4-bet and put then under a ton of pressure.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj Yeah, that's what I'm saying... that it's not unthinkable for V to show up with AKs. Caller's description of V is "a nerdy nitty older guy who reveals very strong hands that should've been 3!"... his description was literally exactly what happened. His weird gigantic open from the strongest position made it more likely for the tight passive V to play the hand passively.
I am writing this before minute 14, so before I hear the result… I think you are underestimating the number of flushes someone could have on the river. Let’s start with AhKh. Yes, I understand it wasn’t 3bet preflop, but there’s many reasons a 3bet won’t happen in this situation. One, the player is kinda nerdy according to hero. These people tend to just flat with AK in spots where you and I would 3bet. Two, the original preflop raise was already kinda big at 5x, which is usually incentive for some to flat more often instead of 3betting. And three, the player in the straddle is the big whale. So a smart player would want to only flat to keep the whale in and maneuver in position against his weak range, instead of 3betting and driving him out. Also, this is live poker. There’s definitely Ah6h that continued because they caught a pair on the turn. There’s Kh9h that calls the overbets because it’s a combo draw. Same with 9h8h that, not only is a combo draw, but picked up extra outs on the the turn. 8h7h plays like this because it became open-ended on the turn. There’s also similar reasonings for 9h7h, 8h6h, 7h6h, 6h5h. And I’m not saying I personally would have all those flushes in my range by the river. But some nerdy-looking low-stakes live player usually does. And that’s all assuming that hero is right in the “nitty” description. Because if not, silly stuff like 9h6h, 6h4h, Kh6h, AhXh are also in play.
@@jaketaylor3129 I understand what you’re saying and why you’re saying it. It’s logical. However, it has not been my experience in 20+ years playing low stakes cash. A lot of people (even if described as nerdy or tight-ish, flat AKs in that spot with the same frequency they flat 86s. It makes no damn sense, but it is my personal experience.
It's not the worst card in the deck. The worst card would be a 7 of hearts, or any low heart. The Jack of Hearts means that the villain can't have AJ, KJ, or J9 of hearts, which are three very likely hands for the villain (leaving just AK and 9-8 for the realistic flush hands for the villain, because even a 5-X of hearts probably folds the turn). A low heart would not block those three possible hands. Not to mention that a 7 would complete the 9-8 gutshot from the flop that became doublegutted on the turn.
@@gabrielrockman You aren't wrong but come on...villain was calling off chunks of his stack hoping for a flush when 6h-10h or any paired board on river had him effectively drawing dead? What was the hero suppose to have here? I sure as hell wouldn't put him on AQ with that bet sizing....screamed all day he had a set or nothing (just like the clown calling until the river)!
I was thinking that the villain would have 9-8 of hearts that became double gutted on the turn (the turn definitely wasn't a brick). But I suppose that raising to 50 when people are normally playing 2-5 without the 10 straddle, made the villain have a much tighter range. I think the preflop sizing messed things up more than the overbets on the flop and turn.
I find very very few hands that I find interesting for hand analysis Hands that are mildly interesting are mildly interesting because they might demonstrate certain poker concepts Hands that ppl argue over endlessly and can never agree on are usually uninterested, you could flip a coin, fold call and raise are all legit options I’m starting to thing hand analysis is not th3 end all be all to learning and improving
Colorado used to have a max bet limit of $100, so the only game really worth playing used to be 1/2/100 spread limit, which means that if you want to bet, it can't be more than $100, and raise can't be more than $100 on top of the previous raise (e.g. villain bets $100, you can raise to $200 total). That rule (law?) was repealed in the past year or so, which enabled some of the bigger games to go off a bit more.
Speaking as a middle-aged white father who wears glasses (though I don't think I look nerdy), it's dangerous to assume too much about someone's playing style based on how they look. Some of the nittier players I see regularly probably think I'm a maniac. I've seen really old guys who are absolute lunatics at the table. I'd be 3B'ing with AKs here nearly 100% of the time. I can't think of a scenario in which I wouldn't, even given hero's large open size. There's a straddle on, and they're playing pretty deep ($2k max, so there should be some bigger stacks behind), and V's flat call is going to incentivize more calls from behind. Hero's $50 open really isn't all that large here, given all that. Even if we think it is - so what? Hero could be betting that large with JJ, or AKo, or 22. Maybe hero is out of line, and V should charge him to see the flop.
Fun theory nugget: if hero is only betting big combo draws and sets on the turn, like he said villains responds by folding all AQ and worse catchers. Big draws only continue I believe
It's not just that but in combination of him describing him as a passive, tight player that are all too common. I personally don't always 3 bet that hand but that's just because I never do anything 100 percent of the time playing this game.
@@bookedroomer I love it when younger guys think everyone over a certain age can't keep up with the game. Keep thinking everyone with gray hair plays the same way. That's +EV for me.
@@Love1isall Who described himself as a passive tight player? The V? Did the caller say that? I must have missed it. Even if he did, what of it? I can play TAG or LAG, but I know my table image is "maniac", so I just go with it. The tighter I'm playing, the more I try to make people think I'm playing loose.
getting 10 BB in preflop with AKs seems pretty reasonable to me. I don't really get why I'd want to raise to 25 BB (or whatever) at that point, what worse hands want to get 25 BB in PF? QQ only?
BEFORE REVEAL... If he is describing the guy as a nit...this is QQ, maybe Q10 as worst possible hand or maybe AhKh how is this guy calling turn with anything else.
For me after the turn call, villian is so heavily weighted to Axhh, I think the river is a clear check and even fold to jam. We block QT and Villian can’t really call a huge turn bet with just a naked straight draw like KJ. So either he has the unlikely 55, the few combos of QT (unlikely), or turns of heart draws.
Axhh shouldn't be calling an overbet on the turn while leaving a half pot bet behind. The only Axhh that should be calling turn is AK and that hand is unlikely because there was no 3 bet preflop.
Even if the villain was “heavily weighted toward AxHH (which they are not) and you gave them *every combo* of AxHH, that is still only A2-A4, A6-A9, and AK. That is eight combos. The villain is far more likely to have top pair/two-pair IMO.
Probably AQ, AJ, KJ and QJ of spades, too. J9 or 98 of spades probably wouldn't make it there though, even though 98 becomes double gutted when the 6 comes on the turn.
55 would jam turn for 750 more (over his 500 bet), so that is not an option either. It is strange that villain didn't 3-bet AKhearts preflop, but it becomes more of a logical hand that makes sense for villain to have once you rule out everything else.
With the hero opening to 50 over the infrequent 10 straddle, I can understand why a tighter villain would just call with AK suited. If the hero had opened to 30 (which would be 3x instead of 5x), I think the villain would be 3 betting AK suited.
@@NeiltheDeal I'm a 38 year old with glasses, and I would have just flatted AK here. I know that I'm a nit, at least. But when most hands are 2-5 without a straddle, probably with a 15 or 20 open, then I'm going to be skittish about 3 betting against an open to 50. I would be worried about a lot of people coming along if I flatted a 15 or 20 open, but against an open to 50, I wouldn't be worried about a bunch of people flatting if I flatted.
Unless you really know your customer, its hard to ever fold sets or better at thesr stakes. In this hand, villian calling the big flop and turn bets are the opposite of polarizing. I read those calls as villian getting sticky with one (or maybe two) pair hands. Sure, Jh river completes all the draws, but so what? At these stakes, over time, the money is made by getting value from overvalued one and two pair hands. Occasionally your villian will show up nutted and you get stacked. So be it. You've got to accept the variance at these stakes if you're going to be profitable.
guys like this dont 3bet AKs that much. or at least there is a sizable chunk of OMCs that dont 3bet AK. So if he’s really THAT nitty and he called a 5x open with a straddle on and calls flop and turn he’s either got AQhx or AKhh (or even Queens! i see that a lot from nits like this) And if he’s really a super nit you might even fold AQ on the turn. I’m not saying I wouldve played it better. it’s super uncomfortable, but if you think it through you’ve pretty much forced his range to be hands that beat you. Even if you just cant let go of the hand you’ll lose less money overall if you check call the river since it at least lets him bluff
But is an OMC ever going to bluff the river? If you’re just going to check-call but villain never bluffs jamming is better in the hope V puts in a crying call with QTcc or 55.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj i figured somebody would say that. In my experience a lot of OMCs wait for big hands in big pots and try to snipe. So when they _are_ in a big pot without the best hand and sense weakness they’ll bluff with any hand they showed up with. Obviously no two people are the same. There’s lots of different ways you can be a nit. But I definitely see OMC’s bluff under certain situations. Betting on a crying call from 2 pair when u block said 2 pair and you’d be perceived as having a set+ anyway seems less likely than getting bluffed personally
If V is flatting pre with AKs, then calling hero's over-bet on flop and turn, I don't see what else hero could do to win before the river. V really shouldn't be that sticky facing so much aggression from hero. With the Jh on the river, it's just such a gross spot. If V is so loose and passive that he's getting here with AKs, perhaps he might also call hero's river jam with a worse hand than TT, so there are hands hero might be able to get value from. But then again, if he's flatting pre with AKs, is he also flatting with QQ? With this sort of opponent, it seems like he could show up here with almost anything. So is this really an over-play from hero, against such a loose and passive V? It sucks to get here like this, and have to check-fold. But what line makes the most sense here? I could see is betting small on flop, then massively over-betting turn. But even with that line, V doesn't look like he's folding. What else can you do but bet small on flop, bet small on turn, then check-fold river, and pat yourself on the back for losing the minimum on this disgusting runout? But then you beat yourself up for letting your opponent get there by betting small on flop and turn.
Reasonable pfr and reasonable C-bet on flop - is what a sound player can do in this scenario. 5x opening is unreasonable, 150% flop C-bet is maniacal play. That's what V exactly wanted: someone to build the pot for him (AK). (That was his job.). Then, Turn bet could be stronger than flop; to deny him equity and to have a strong reason why x/f river. If V called all your bets, and bets the river after you checked, then it's a fold on this board (too dangerous that a third set is not as strong to call). Who guarantees that V does not hold pocket QQ, JJ?? ability to fold a big hand is a mark of a strong player. Say: H raises to $30, V called, pot $70 on flop. Then a C-bet of $30 on flop and a call would've made it $130. Then I would hammer turn with $105, and if got called, ($340 river pot INSTEAD OF $1415??? ), do not touch the river even if it's a brick (which was not in this case!). So: losing a decent $170 vs $1070 speaks the difference in play approach.
1. Doesn't seem good flop play chosing a size that already makes most QX indifferent/foldable 2. Against a nit (and also vs a solid GTO V) we should never bet there in the first place Every other problem in the hand is a consequence of that flop mistakes imho
Stopped at 14:40. What has not been mentioned in hand reading, is that there was a straddle, which is both unusual for this game, and from a loose aggressive player. This means there are more hands that would normally 3 bet pre, in his flatting range, not wanting to get 4 bet from straddle. This means AhKh and QQ are more likely in his range than would be normal. Foe has a hand, as you have shown great strength every hand. What hands he could have matters. AhKh, QQ have you beat on the river, and even the unlikely AK beats you now. Your range is also very capped, you either have QQ or TT or AK, but you don't have AhKh, so foe could have that. Really, the only hands that might play this way that you have beat are 55 and QT, who didn't raise you because you bet so large. Neither or those hands will call a river bet, because any of your bluffs now beat him. I'd check the River, because only better is going to call you. Even 55 is very unlikely to call, unless you have the reputation of going wild. I'd likely call a River shove from foe, but that would be more to keep him honest in later play, because the pot odds you'd be getting would be so good, but I expect this to be AhKh the majority of time. I rarely disagree with Bart, but I think the Jh on the River is the worse Heart that could arrive, as even a weirdly played AK with a heart, now beats you. Because Bart plays at such a high level, he often does not remember how lower stake games can be played, and hands that should always be a 3bet are not at lower stakes. You have to include those hands in your street analysis.
Not that I disagree, but can you explain why hero can't have AhKh here, as played? Is it because he overbet flop and turn? Or are you just saying that hero in fact doesn't have AhKh, so it's possible V has it? I do agree about the Jh being the worst possible river card. V is never calling with any hand hero can beat, probably never folding AKo, and might decide to bluff-jam if hero checks. Just such a disgusting runout.
@@EllieBanks333 Obviously! He should have folded the turn when the over bet of $500 by the hero showed it's ugly head. Just bad play in my opinion as the odds were not in his favor a heart, a jack, or let alone the JH would appear on the river. He won, but it was luck that day for him as it was not a great call. I play the odds, you want to chase, go ahead! You'll hit once in awhile, but in the long run will lose! 😎✌🗽
caller misread his oppponet in the hand: caller stated villain was very nitty and always showed up with “it”. AhKh is a monster with straight and flush draws with this flop. all good nits will see a river 😂
I like block for 200 and fold if villain shoves. Nerdy middle aged guy is unlikely to be capable of bluffing with naked ace of hearts and expecting hero to fold a set or Q10 for only 500 more.
imo an important part of this whole hand is that he's a nerdy/conservative dude that most often is not 3 betting AK (suited or not) pre imo, especially with the big open of the Hero. I just find that if he is truly a passive and conservative type, they are not typically 3 betting AK there unless there a studied player, if he's just a casual player he is always flatting AK.
Especially since it was a straddled hand in a game that’s not usually straddled. If you figure in a 2/5 game, a 3X open followed by a 3X 3-bet is only $45 maybe the guy felt $50 was already big enough.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj It could also be that villain isn't normally that tight but wanted the fun player in the hand and a 3bet in a bloated pot was likely to drive him out.
With these overbets you've basically decided to play for your whole stack as soon as you flop that set..................especially with the turn bet. It's just too splashy..............and in these 2/5 games (even with a straddle) nobody folds the nut flush draw unless you shove on them on the flop, they should - but they don't. "How does he have a flush here?" Because he isn't a good player like you - he's a bad player who doesn't do pot odds.......
He gave enough information. There is usually only one casino in Black Hawk that runs 2-5, and only ever one that ever has this specific structure: Monarch.
I think this is a perfect example of why you shouldn't take the same actions all the time. If most people expect you to always 3 bet AK, it will be profitable to cold call with it a small amount of the time. I will do this sometimes especially from early position with a plan to 4 bet. When nobody 3 bets, then your perceived range has changed dramatically.
You're saying you might flat hero's open, next to act, expecting someone to 3B, so you can back-raise 4B? I've seen that done in higher-stakes games, like HCL, but it's really rare at lower stakes. Not that it's a bad play, but you really need to have multiple aggro opponents left behind you to take that line. I might flat here with AKo against some opponents, but with AKs, I think I'm 3B'ing at 100% frequency.
@@1vailchris I was actually referring to the villains AK play. If he were to 3 bet that hand in this scenario, hero might have taken a different line of play and the villain may have won a smaller pot. It was hard for hero to put him on AKh because of the call.
@@1vailchris I agree with you for the most part on 3 betting AKs in this scenario, but I do it 98-99% of the time. I try not to do anything 100% of the time except play my best. Especially when players are paying attention well.
@@NefariousMinds We may misunderstand each other. I was also talking about villain's AK play. I was confirming what I took your meaning to be - that you might flat with AK in V's spot, with a plan to back-raise 4B? Not wanting to sound argumentative, that's actually a genius play when it works, but in order for it to work you really need the right opponents behind you. In most games I play, in this set-up, I'd be 3B'ing AKs at such a high frequency that I can't think of a scenario in which I wouldn't. My ranges and plays are so diverse that my opponents can't exploit me simply because I'd be 3B'ing AKs at 100%. The way I see it, if any hands are always 3B, like AA/KK, then you have a 100% 3B range, and you just need to decide what's in it. If AKs is in that range, then it's a 100% 3B, barring any extremely unusual circumstances. Here, with this set-up, playing $2k max and facing a $50 open UTG, I think AKs has to be a 3B from UTG1, 100% of the time. Otherwise you're inviting other players to come into the pot behind you, and risking someone squeezing you out. Yes, it was hard for hero to put V on AK, but V's play is so weak overall. He just got extremely lucky with the runout versus hero's specific hand. If we look at hero's overall range vs V's overall range here, V is just burning money when he flats the whole way.
if villain is bad enough to call the turn with ace king of hearts I think villain is bad enough to call river with queen jack, queen ten, or a set of fives. I disagree with hero's perceived range having a lot of ace king. The only ace king hero should have is ace king of hearts. Hero is obviously a good player and triple barreling here with ace king with no flush draw would be very spewy
Yeah, I've said it before, but callers and Bart sometimes forget just how bad live cash game players are. Old guys and other assorted nits at 1/2-2/5 are flatting with AK (suited or not) pre all day every day. I've seen far, far, far more flats with AK (even suited) than 3-bets at these stakes. That said it's one combo that could ever reasonably get here and even then, they're pretty dicey calls giving the sizing - bunch of nits wouldn't have made it to the river. There are more combos of 55, AQ and one QT suited that can get here than AK or a flush easily. Another commenter said Ax of hearts, but no one nitty enough to flat AK suited pre is continuing all the way here with just a flush draw.
@@Jermo484 Nothing wrong here with villains AK. Hero is UTG in a 2-5 game & opens to $50. The following is from my general comments post: "My other thoughts were about him having AQ or KK or AA. I think AA 3 bets pre. I think caller probably ruled out AK suited when pre was a flat. That's a big mistake. This was a 2-5 game with an infrequent straddle & hero opened to $50." 3 betting gets you zero fold equity vs a UTG open of that size & you might get 4 bet.
@@EllieBanks333 If 3betting gets zero fold equity. Then hero is defending all his opens which is too wide or hero only opens premium hands that will call or 4bet, which is unbalanced. UTG should have some hands like A7s and J9s that will fold to a 3bet.
theoretically, yeah. In reality, no. lol... How many times you'll have opportunity to play him in the same hand?? How many times there will be other players (8 handed) involved who will heavily exploit your "light floatings"??? Sometimes he will hit his hand to nuts, and stack your bluffs like a pig does to a greasy rug!
I've called in a few times and has aired. Bart never asked results and I didn't give them, he said we would discuss it on air.
What is it with you fish not wanting to disclose the location?
@@stephpom5373what
This was a fantastic call in/hand. I think you should incorporate your scoring scale into each video tbh. This is one of my favs of late
Your not getting called by worse so gotta check fold especially with the sizing you went with on flop and turn
It's obvious that you are giving a fair look at the hands. You do a great job, love it. Always on the edge of over analyzed, perfect.
Great analysis. Very interesting spot and couldn't believe that opponent turns up with AhKh, especially as it wasn't a 3bet pot.
It being a 5x open from UTG in a straddled pot with an older nitty V in UTG1 makes it pretty far from a normal single raised pot. V might have no clue about the dynamic with the bad straddler, he might just see a gigantic open from the strongest position.
@@88mphDrBrown It's a weird situation. $50 is an enormous open for most 2/5 games. But there's a $10 straddle, and they're super-deep, and hero is UTG, where a larger open size isn't unusual. It makes me wonder if V would have 3B a smaller open from hero, or if V just doesn't have any 3B range at all, perhaps because he's uncomfortable playing so deep, but then that doesn't really jive with him calling hero's over-bets on later streets. I fit the description the caller gave for this V, and I'm going to 3B here with AKs 100% of the time, regardless of stack depth. I really can't figure out how V shows up with AKs here.
@@1vailchris5x is very large and already accounting for the straddle. I'd expect a "standard" UTG open in that spot to be like 25-35. I don't know what you're talking about with "larger open sizes from UTG isn't unusual"... you gain nothing, there's almost no dead money to fight for, it just puts you at a larger risk OOP, and simplifies everyone else's decisions. I'm not trying to be mean or judgemental. I just don't know what you're talking about.
Hero's justification was solely an exploit on the straddler, which seems okay.
@@88mphDrBrown as someone else point out, even if V does know the dynamic with the straddle, I could see flatting with AKs.
Maybe he wants to try and keep the fishy straddle in the hand?
And if someone squeezes and folds out the fun player he can easily then 4-bet and put then under a ton of pressure.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj Yeah, that's what I'm saying... that it's not unthinkable for V to show up with AKs. Caller's description of V is "a nerdy nitty older guy who reveals very strong hands that should've been 3!"... his description was literally exactly what happened. His weird gigantic open from the strongest position made it more likely for the tight passive V to play the hand passively.
I am writing this before minute 14, so before I hear the result…
I think you are underestimating the number of flushes someone could have on the river. Let’s start with AhKh. Yes, I understand it wasn’t 3bet preflop, but there’s many reasons a 3bet won’t happen in this situation. One, the player is kinda nerdy according to hero. These people tend to just flat with AK in spots where you and I would 3bet. Two, the original preflop raise was already kinda big at 5x, which is usually incentive for some to flat more often instead of 3betting. And three, the player in the straddle is the big whale. So a smart player would want to only flat to keep the whale in and maneuver in position against his weak range, instead of 3betting and driving him out.
Also, this is live poker. There’s definitely Ah6h that continued because they caught a pair on the turn. There’s Kh9h that calls the overbets because it’s a combo draw. Same with 9h8h that, not only is a combo draw, but picked up extra outs on the the turn. 8h7h plays like this because it became open-ended on the turn.
There’s also similar reasonings for 9h7h, 8h6h, 7h6h, 6h5h. And I’m not saying I personally would have all those flushes in my range by the river. But some nerdy-looking low-stakes live player usually does. And that’s all assuming that hero is right in the “nitty” description. Because if not, silly stuff like 9h6h, 6h4h, Kh6h, AhXh are also in play.
The type to flat Ak, folds A LOT of those hearts you mentioned pre.
@@jaketaylor3129 I understand what you’re saying and why you’re saying it. It’s logical. However, it has not been my experience in 20+ years playing low stakes cash. A lot of people (even if described as nerdy or tight-ish, flat AKs in that spot with the same frequency they flat 86s. It makes no damn sense, but it is my personal experience.
When it’s the worst card in the deck on the River
You need to accept its the worst card in the deck and play accordingly
It's not the worst card in the deck. The worst card would be a 7 of hearts, or any low heart. The Jack of Hearts means that the villain can't have AJ, KJ, or J9 of hearts, which are three very likely hands for the villain (leaving just AK and 9-8 for the realistic flush hands for the villain, because even a 5-X of hearts probably folds the turn). A low heart would not block those three possible hands. Not to mention that a 7 would complete the 9-8 gutshot from the flop that became doublegutted on the turn.
@@gabrielrockman You aren't wrong but come on...villain was calling off chunks of his stack hoping for a flush when 6h-10h or any paired board on river had him effectively drawing dead? What was the hero suppose to have here? I sure as hell wouldn't put him on AQ with that bet sizing....screamed all day he had a set or nothing (just like the clown calling until the river)!
Which makes you easy to play against...any scary run out and you're folding like a wet newspaper?
I was thinking that the villain would have 9-8 of hearts that became double gutted on the turn (the turn definitely wasn't a brick). But I suppose that raising to 50 when people are normally playing 2-5 without the 10 straddle, made the villain have a much tighter range. I think the preflop sizing messed things up more than the overbets on the flop and turn.
I find very very few hands that I find interesting for hand analysis
Hands that are mildly interesting are mildly interesting because they might demonstrate certain poker concepts
Hands that ppl argue over endlessly and can never agree on are usually uninterested, you could flip a coin, fold call and raise are all legit options
I’m starting to thing hand analysis is not th3 end all be all to learning and improving
Colorado used to have a max bet limit of $100, so the only game really worth playing used to be 1/2/100 spread limit, which means that if you want to bet, it can't be more than $100, and raise can't be more than $100 on top of the previous raise (e.g. villain bets $100, you can raise to $200 total). That rule (law?) was repealed in the past year or so, which enabled some of the bigger games to go off a bit more.
Speaking as a middle-aged white father who wears glasses (though I don't think I look nerdy), it's dangerous to assume too much about someone's playing style based on how they look. Some of the nittier players I see regularly probably think I'm a maniac. I've seen really old guys who are absolute lunatics at the table. I'd be 3B'ing with AKs here nearly 100% of the time. I can't think of a scenario in which I wouldn't, even given hero's large open size. There's a straddle on, and they're playing pretty deep ($2k max, so there should be some bigger stacks behind), and V's flat call is going to incentivize more calls from behind. Hero's $50 open really isn't all that large here, given all that. Even if we think it is - so what? Hero could be betting that large with JJ, or AKo, or 22. Maybe hero is out of line, and V should charge him to see the flop.
I agree. I just commented how the caller is being an ass by stereotyping people with glasses as nerds
When most hands are 2-5 without a straddle, and probably have like a 15 or 20 open, someone opening to 50 really is that large.
Fun theory nugget: if hero is only betting big combo draws and sets on the turn, like he said villains responds by folding all AQ and worse catchers. Big draws only continue I believe
The caller described the player just like a guy who WOULD flat AK suited right off the bat...
As a middle-aged white father, who fits caller's description of V, I can assure you some of us are 3B'ing AKs here with 100% frequency.
@@1vailchris nah imo if its a 40+ white dude I think they aren't 3betting AK as much as they should be
It's not just that but in combination of him describing him as a passive, tight player that are all too common. I personally don't always 3 bet that hand but that's just because I never do anything 100 percent of the time playing this game.
@@bookedroomer I love it when younger guys think everyone over a certain age can't keep up with the game. Keep thinking everyone with gray hair plays the same way. That's +EV for me.
@@Love1isall Who described himself as a passive tight player? The V? Did the caller say that? I must have missed it. Even if he did, what of it? I can play TAG or LAG, but I know my table image is "maniac", so I just go with it. The tighter I'm playing, the more I try to make people think I'm playing loose.
getting 10 BB in preflop with AKs seems pretty reasonable to me. I don't really get why I'd want to raise to 25 BB (or whatever) at that point, what worse hands want to get 25 BB in PF? QQ only?
Lmao
That's the trouble with bombing the flop and the turn it really tightens the villains range.
Him showing up with AKh was like an episode of Fantasy island
Block river small and fold to river jam vs specific V type
BEFORE REVEAL... If he is describing the guy as a nit...this is QQ, maybe Q10 as worst possible hand or maybe AhKh how is this guy calling turn with anything else.
Great video. appreciate these. thx
I am a CLP member. Where can I get the member code to use for my 5% HCL entry? I didn't see anything on the discord.
For me after the turn call, villian is so heavily weighted to Axhh, I think the river is a clear check and even fold to jam. We block QT and Villian can’t really call a huge turn bet with just a naked straight draw like KJ. So either he has the unlikely 55, the few combos of QT (unlikely), or turns of heart draws.
Axhh shouldn't be calling an overbet on the turn while leaving a half pot bet behind. The only Axhh that should be calling turn is AK and that hand is unlikely because there was no 3 bet preflop.
Even if the villain was “heavily weighted toward AxHH (which they are not) and you gave them *every combo* of AxHH, that is still only A2-A4, A6-A9, and AK. That is eight combos.
The villain is far more likely to have top pair/two-pair IMO.
Exactly my thinking, the river was a killer. Must fold
The solver would 100% favor a jam.
If 55 is unlikely, how is Axhh NOT unlikely as well ?
The description of the villain sounds like an exact description of me. How do I use that perception to my advantage?
Bluff more, especially when you haven't been playing hands due to being card dead.
The most middle aged white nerdy dad thing was that commercial bart cut to in the middle of this
any merit to Villain also showing up with 9h8h?
I was surprised that got no discussion. Or 87hh which turns open ended.
I think they are ruling it out based in villians image
KQ of spades is also a hand he can have on the turn.
Probably AQ, AJ, KJ and QJ of spades, too. J9 or 98 of spades probably wouldn't make it there though, even though 98 becomes double gutted when the 6 comes on the turn.
I like your betting I'm thinking he has set too set of 5s
55 would jam turn for 750 more (over his 500 bet), so that is not an option either.
It is strange that villain didn't 3-bet AKhearts preflop, but it becomes more of a logical hand that makes sense for villain to have once you rule out everything else.
With the hero opening to 50 over the infrequent 10 straddle, I can understand why a tighter villain would just call with AK suited. If the hero had opened to 30 (which would be 3x instead of 5x), I think the villain would be 3 betting AK suited.
98 78 hearts flats preflop in position in low stakes game combo draw on this board
On behalf of all mid 40’s dad’s this caller was offensive! 😂
Stop flatting AK then
@@NeiltheDeal I’m just talking about the way he physically described him… it hurt my feelings lol
@@NeiltheDeal I'm a 38 year old with glasses, and I would have just flatted AK here. I know that I'm a nit, at least.
But when most hands are 2-5 without a straddle, probably with a 15 or 20 open, then I'm going to be skittish about 3 betting against an open to 50. I would be worried about a lot of people coming along if I flatted a 15 or 20 open, but against an open to 50, I wouldn't be worried about a bunch of people flatting if I flatted.
Use nonsense sizing schemes, end up in nonsense spots
Unless you really know your customer, its hard to ever fold sets or better at thesr stakes. In this hand, villian calling the big flop and turn bets are the opposite of polarizing. I read those calls as villian getting sticky with one (or maybe two) pair hands. Sure, Jh river completes all the draws, but so what? At these stakes, over time, the money is made by getting value from overvalued one and two pair hands. Occasionally your villian will show up nutted and you get stacked. So be it. You've got to accept the variance at these stakes if you're going to be profitable.
Thanks for the giveaway opportunity Bart !! Thursday's my birthday,so that'd be cool if I won lol... Either way, I hope you CRUSH 💪💪💯
guys like this dont 3bet AKs that much. or at least there is a sizable chunk of OMCs that dont 3bet AK. So if he’s really THAT nitty and he called a 5x open with a straddle on and calls flop and turn he’s either got AQhx or AKhh (or even Queens! i see that a lot from nits like this) And if he’s really a super nit you might even fold AQ on the turn.
I’m not saying I wouldve played it better. it’s super uncomfortable, but if you think it through you’ve pretty much forced his range to be hands that beat you. Even if you just cant let go of the hand you’ll lose less money overall if you check call the river since it at least lets him bluff
But is an OMC ever going to bluff the river?
If you’re just going to check-call but villain never bluffs jamming is better in the hope V puts in a crying call with QTcc or 55.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj i figured somebody would say that. In my experience a lot of OMCs wait for big hands in big pots and try to snipe. So when they _are_ in a big pot without the best hand and sense weakness they’ll bluff with any hand they showed up with.
Obviously no two people are the same. There’s lots of different ways you can be a nit. But I definitely see OMC’s bluff under certain situations. Betting on a crying call from 2 pair when u block said 2 pair and you’d be perceived as having a set+ anyway seems less likely than getting bluffed personally
@@noThankyou-g5c yeah was just throwing it out there. It’s a shitty spot so it’s all going to come down to exact player tendencies I guess.
If V is flatting pre with AKs, then calling hero's over-bet on flop and turn, I don't see what else hero could do to win before the river. V really shouldn't be that sticky facing so much aggression from hero. With the Jh on the river, it's just such a gross spot. If V is so loose and passive that he's getting here with AKs, perhaps he might also call hero's river jam with a worse hand than TT, so there are hands hero might be able to get value from. But then again, if he's flatting pre with AKs, is he also flatting with QQ? With this sort of opponent, it seems like he could show up here with almost anything. So is this really an over-play from hero, against such a loose and passive V?
It sucks to get here like this, and have to check-fold. But what line makes the most sense here? I could see is betting small on flop, then massively over-betting turn. But even with that line, V doesn't look like he's folding. What else can you do but bet small on flop, bet small on turn, then check-fold river, and pat yourself on the back for losing the minimum on this disgusting runout? But then you beat yourself up for letting your opponent get there by betting small on flop and turn.
Reasonable pfr and reasonable C-bet on flop - is what a sound player can do in this scenario. 5x opening is unreasonable, 150% flop C-bet is maniacal play. That's what V exactly wanted: someone to build the pot for him (AK). (That was his job.).
Then, Turn bet could be stronger than flop; to deny him equity and to have a strong reason why x/f river. If V called all your bets, and bets the river after you checked, then it's a fold on this board (too dangerous that a third set is not as strong to call). Who guarantees that V does not hold pocket QQ, JJ?? ability to fold a big hand is a mark of a strong player.
Say: H raises to $30, V called, pot $70 on flop. Then a C-bet of $30 on flop and a call would've made it $130. Then I would hammer turn with $105, and if got called, ($340 river pot INSTEAD OF $1415??? ), do not touch the river even if it's a brick (which was not in this case!). So: losing a decent $170 vs $1070 speaks the difference in play approach.
1. Doesn't seem good flop play chosing a size that already makes most QX indifferent/foldable
2. Against a nit (and also vs a solid GTO V) we should never bet there in the first place
Every other problem in the hand is a consequence of that flop mistakes imho
Stopped at 14:40.
What has not been mentioned in hand reading, is that there was a straddle, which is both unusual for this game, and from a loose aggressive player. This means there are more hands that would normally 3 bet pre, in his flatting range, not wanting to get 4 bet from straddle.
This means AhKh and QQ are more likely in his range than would be normal.
Foe has a hand, as you have shown great strength every hand. What hands he could have matters. AhKh, QQ have you beat on the river, and even the unlikely AK beats you now. Your range is also very capped, you either have QQ or TT or AK, but you don't have AhKh, so foe could have that.
Really, the only hands that might play this way that you have beat are 55 and QT, who didn't raise you because you bet so large. Neither or those hands will call a river bet, because any of your bluffs now beat him.
I'd check the River, because only better is going to call you. Even 55 is very unlikely to call, unless you have the reputation of going wild.
I'd likely call a River shove from foe, but that would be more to keep him honest in later play, because the pot odds you'd be getting would be so good, but I expect this to be AhKh the majority of time.
I rarely disagree with Bart, but I think the Jh on the River is the worse Heart that could arrive, as even a weirdly played AK with a heart, now beats you. Because Bart plays at such a high level, he often does not remember how lower stake games can be played, and hands that should always be a 3bet are not at lower stakes. You have to include those hands in your street analysis.
Not that I disagree, but can you explain why hero can't have AhKh here, as played? Is it because he overbet flop and turn? Or are you just saying that hero in fact doesn't have AhKh, so it's possible V has it? I do agree about the Jh being the worst possible river card. V is never calling with any hand hero can beat, probably never folding AKo, and might decide to bluff-jam if hero checks. Just such a disgusting runout.
Would love to play poker with the AKh players, lousy player chasing that flush/straight!
Are you suggesting villain should fold AKhh at some point in this hand?
@@EllieBanks333 Obviously! He should have folded the turn when the over bet of $500 by the hero showed it's ugly head. Just bad play in my opinion as the odds were not in his favor a heart, a jack, or let alone the JH would appear on the river. He won, but it was luck that day for him as it was not a great call. I play the odds, you want to chase, go ahead! You'll hit once in awhile, but in the long run will lose! 😎✌🗽
@@TOM-C. So what is your calling range there?
@@EllieBanks333 I don't do hypotheticals! ✌
@@TOM-C. Gotcha!
caller misread his oppponet in the hand: caller stated villain was very nitty and always showed up with “it”. AhKh is a monster with straight and flush draws with this flop. all good nits will see a river 😂
I like block for 200 and fold if villain shoves. Nerdy middle aged guy is unlikely to be capable of bluffing with naked ace of hearts and expecting hero to fold a set or Q10 for only 500 more.
"A solid 9". At first I thought you were giving me a shout out.
imo an important part of this whole hand is that he's a nerdy/conservative dude that most often is not 3 betting AK (suited or not) pre imo, especially with the big open of the Hero. I just find that if he is truly a passive and conservative type, they are not typically 3 betting AK there unless there a studied player, if he's just a casual player he is always flatting AK.
Especially since it was a straddled hand in a game that’s not usually straddled. If you figure in a 2/5 game, a 3X open followed by a 3X 3-bet is only $45 maybe the guy felt $50 was already big enough.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj It could also be that villain isn't normally that tight but wanted the fun player in the hand and a 3bet in a bloated pot was likely to drive him out.
@@AT-bw4cmvery good point
Hero loses only to Akhh or Akss with only half pot size bet
On the river, it's a shove, in my opinion, villain can have qj ss AQss KQss
With these overbets you've basically decided to play for your whole stack as soon as you flop that set..................especially with the turn bet. It's just too splashy..............and in these 2/5 games (even with a straddle) nobody folds the nut flush draw unless you shove on them on the flop, they should - but they don't. "How does he have a flush here?" Because he isn't a good player like you - he's a bad player who doesn't do pot odds.......
You could do the most brilliant hand reading, but in the end the guy could do anything.
Old man strong
❤
I was putting the opponent on either the AKhh or AJss. Either way, I'm pretty sure the solver 100% favors a jam at the end.
What is with these fish not wanting to disclose locations? Only fish do that
He gave enough information. There is usually only one casino in Black Hawk that runs 2-5, and only ever one that ever has this specific structure: Monarch.
I think this is a perfect example of why you shouldn't take the same actions all the time. If most people expect you to always 3 bet AK, it will be profitable to cold call with it a small amount of the time.
I will do this sometimes especially from early position with a plan to 4 bet. When nobody 3 bets, then your perceived range has changed dramatically.
You're saying you might flat hero's open, next to act, expecting someone to 3B, so you can back-raise 4B? I've seen that done in higher-stakes games, like HCL, but it's really rare at lower stakes. Not that it's a bad play, but you really need to have multiple aggro opponents left behind you to take that line. I might flat here with AKo against some opponents, but with AKs, I think I'm 3B'ing at 100% frequency.
@@1vailchris
I was actually referring to the villains AK play. If he were to 3 bet that hand in this scenario, hero might have taken a different line of play and the villain may have won a smaller pot. It was hard for hero to put him on AKh because of the call.
@@1vailchris
I agree with you for the most part on 3 betting AKs in this scenario, but I do it 98-99% of the time. I try not to do anything 100% of the time except play my best. Especially when players are paying attention well.
@@NefariousMinds We may misunderstand each other. I was also talking about villain's AK play. I was confirming what I took your meaning to be - that you might flat with AK in V's spot, with a plan to back-raise 4B? Not wanting to sound argumentative, that's actually a genius play when it works, but in order for it to work you really need the right opponents behind you.
In most games I play, in this set-up, I'd be 3B'ing AKs at such a high frequency that I can't think of a scenario in which I wouldn't. My ranges and plays are so diverse that my opponents can't exploit me simply because I'd be 3B'ing AKs at 100%. The way I see it, if any hands are always 3B, like AA/KK, then you have a 100% 3B range, and you just need to decide what's in it. If AKs is in that range, then it's a 100% 3B, barring any extremely unusual circumstances. Here, with this set-up, playing $2k max and facing a $50 open UTG, I think AKs has to be a 3B from UTG1, 100% of the time. Otherwise you're inviting other players to come into the pot behind you, and risking someone squeezing you out.
Yes, it was hard for hero to put V on AK, but V's play is so weak overall. He just got extremely lucky with the runout versus hero's specific hand. If we look at hero's overall range vs V's overall range here, V is just burning money when he flats the whole way.
@@1vailchris
Yeah that makes a lot of sense, thanks!
Sometimes is beter to jam on the turn lol
Hand review from the typewriter
Hero needs to study up on what the strategy is for overbetting
This…this is not the flop to overbet
This is a check fold ll day
Why shove on the river? If you check then you give AQ a chance to check back. You are only going to get called by AK of hearts.
King 9 heart
89hh
Tight guy calls 500 on turn.... bink. Maybe he thought his overcards were also good.
Exactly- he might have thought he had more outs.
Ace king hearts
This flop shouldn’t be an overbet
Thats why i dont 3 bet AKs so these suckers give me their money
if villain is bad enough to call the turn with ace king of hearts I think villain is bad enough to call river with queen jack, queen ten, or a set of fives. I disagree with hero's perceived range having a lot of ace king. The only ace king hero should have is ace king of hearts. Hero is obviously a good player and triple barreling here with ace king with no flush draw would be very spewy
Bart trying to tie-in with NFL Kickoff weekend by posting a massive punt.
Yeah, I've said it before, but callers and Bart sometimes forget just how bad live cash game players are. Old guys and other assorted nits at 1/2-2/5 are flatting with AK (suited or not) pre all day every day. I've seen far, far, far more flats with AK (even suited) than 3-bets at these stakes. That said it's one combo that could ever reasonably get here and even then, they're pretty dicey calls giving the sizing - bunch of nits wouldn't have made it to the river. There are more combos of 55, AQ and one QT suited that can get here than AK or a flush easily. Another commenter said Ax of hearts, but no one nitty enough to flat AK suited pre is continuing all the way here with just a flush draw.
@@Jermo484 Nothing wrong here with villains AK. Hero is UTG in a 2-5 game & opens to $50. The following is from my general comments post: "My other thoughts were about him having AQ or KK or AA. I think AA 3 bets pre. I think caller probably ruled out AK suited when pre was a flat. That's a big mistake. This was a 2-5 game with an infrequent straddle & hero opened to $50." 3 betting gets you zero fold equity vs a UTG open of that size & you might get 4 bet.
@@EllieBanks333 AKs is a very obvious 3 bet. The villain is trash.
@@EllieBanks333 If 3betting gets zero fold equity. Then hero is defending all his opens which is too wide or hero only opens premium hands that will call or 4bet, which is unbalanced. UTG should have some hands like A7s and J9s that will fold to a 3bet.
@@AT-bw4cm You're not very bright.
k9 hrts foo
As always, nice analysis.
But, horrible title.
Villain was an idiot. What he was playing was go broke poker. The end.
Overpleeeehh! - Wesley
Middle aged white dad lol
Exactly the type of guy who flats pre with AK suited. Heck I'd even expect him to be slow playing KK here.
First
Wow, what a hero!
2nd 🎉
If you're check folding this hand, I'm going to be floating lighter and bluffing you more
But do you have a table image of a nerdy, nitty middle-aged man? And even if you do, 80% of the time the front door flush won’t come in on the river.
theoretically, yeah. In reality, no. lol...
How many times you'll have opportunity to play him in the same hand?? How many times there will be other players (8 handed) involved who will heavily exploit your "light floatings"???
Sometimes he will hit his hand to nuts, and stack your bluffs like a pig does to a greasy rug!
and hpe for qj
check fold is the best becasuue of 750 500 you just call
78 of heart
ik of heart or aq