Union labor may seem to take longer but it actually is faster. The people that disagree are the same people that say safety regulations slow work down. United we bargain divided we beg!
Jordan Bergmann Why do the large corporate construction companies want to comply with safety regulations? They are more than willing to break the laws if it makes them money. The reason behind them wanting to comply is simple, they want to make more money, they couldn't care less about workers getting injured or killed on the job. Now with all of that being said, having to follow some of the useless rules can really hurt smaller companies. I guess I should have put my first comment in context. Anyways, I have enjoyed our conversation, have fun and stay safe out there. -Thanks, Ryan Ray
Ryan Ray No... actually they comply because OSHA is more lilely to hit bigger companies with heavy fines that could cause a huge impact in there business. Smaller conpanies? Forget about it. A small company gets hit by oshas red tape beaureaucratic fines it will put them out of business but they're also less likely to be on oshas radar. And the useless rules arent just minor amnoyances they are becoming rules that make it impossible to get the work done efficiently. Im a carpenter dude... i know how it goes. Osha is self funded, once the current rules become common place and everyone is following them, osha stops making money therefore they create new rules for the sole purpose of fining companies for not following... just to keep themselves afloat. They're corrupt plain and simple. Fuck osha
Unions want productivity. I seen many men on jobs work one week. Then get laid off for no work productive. Like all companies they are trying to turn a profit. They don’t do lazy.
I just think it is funny how so many people are generalizing union vs non union. "Oh i saw a couple of union workers moving slow so all of them are slow". That is complete bull. I am a union worker and i work my ass off every freakin day. I train hard through the apprenticeship so i can learn a ton and know as much as possible to make me a better employee. The union takes care of me and protects me. They give us raises like we all deserve and that only encourages non union contractors to pay more as well. They give me great benefits for a family someday. I don't see how anyone can complain about that. I would never talk down to non union workers because frankly i don't care if they are non union. Ive seen plenty of bad non union workers but i am not going to sit here and write about how ALL of them are bad cause its simply not true for either side. Some are bad and some are good just like any career. Please grow up a little and get along. We are all electrical workers just trying to make a living.
I can't speak for all unions, but in the consrtucion field unions are far more efficient. Every unionized company requires all its journey workers at least 4 years of job related schooling and have the access to an almost unlimited amount of skilled workers needed to complete any job through the local union halls. The only reason a company would choose to go non union is so they can pay their employees less and offer no benefits. Who would you rather work for?
Apparently, very few that have commented on this topic have a clue to history or anything else going on in America. First of all, the unions helped to build this country and without it we would not be where we are today. Second, because you are union does NOT mean you voted for Obama. I am from a family that has union ties to the pipeline industry and the teaching profession and the two can not be compared. The teaching profession does not stand as one when it comes to being unionized, therefore doesn't accomplish much. As for all the comments against unions….it sounds like you want the US to become another third world country. Get educated, learn your history, and make an informed decision based on fact, not some crap you herd on main stream media.
I know the union folks are better trained, I spent 18 years training apprentices. I was also trained while doing it. We as instructors were required to complete a 5 year program ourselves. I know the United Association does this for us, I don't know about the rest. If you want to down unions go back to before they came, and flip hamburgers 85-90 hrs a week for shit wages, or quit. These unions got all the conditions that we have today. Weekends, holidays, 40 hr weeks, benifits, and a decent wage.
I worked both UNION and non-union (private). Let me tell you this, when you work non-union -- you could be fired anyday, any minute regardless of whatever, even if one person or boss hates you personally. AND you cannot choose which days you can take off (with no pay of course). I wish I worked UNION earlier in my life. When you say "I hate Union" , you're actually saying " I hate freedom". People need to wake up and smell the damn coffee. Stop throwing your freedom away.
Jack Ray You were so lucky not to work at the shipyard here in Pascagoula Mississippi they were Union and they would fire you for no reason but they sure would take your money
IBEW for life here.Unless your just clueless you would know how the unions benefit the non unions pay and benefits, holidays and over all working conditions.We all know there are lazy workers in every job field and thats a shame.But I am proud to be IBEW ans welcome all those who would want to make the switch.Have a safe holidays brothers and sisters.
@OFT94 Try actually looking up the study. It definitely shows that unions are 17% more productive, at least in the construction industry. Unions in any industry can boost productivity by decreasing turnover, by increasing motivation, and by coordinating workers and management. Not all unions raise productivity, and those unions are bad. But unions are certainly capable of boosting productivity, and many do.
Of course. We get up, go to work for what? MONEY! for what? So we can SURVIVE! more money means happier employees which means they will do a better job than someone who is not happy.
Union is 1000x better man without question lol. I'm a Red Seal Plumber (our term for licensed Plumber here in Canada.) In the private sector any local plumbing company where I live keep wages at an all time low, hours, and work load extremely high. Without warning they can lay you off or fire you without serious reason. Also non-union have no agreement with their members. Now as for Union here goes without saying here in my hometown union wages for a licensed Plumber are $16/HR more lol so what do you think lol. Plus we have excellent benefits, pension plan, excellent hourly wages, a much higher cost of living, and a brotherhood looking out for each other. A big thing with our benefits we only need to work 40 hours to get them, then it doesn't matter whatever union company were with working our benefits transfer over how easy is that. Think about this three years ago I worked Thanksgiving Tuesday to that Thanksgiving Saturday. A large group of us Pipefitters and Plumbers worked usually 14-16 hours a day the entire time. We most non union companies here would simply be straight time without question. We first of all got Industrail wage which was $42.85/HR for a Licensed Plumber, we got straight time for 8 hours, then time and a half for over 10 hours a Day, we then got double time for anything over 12 hours a day. The Saturday we worked was another holiday and we got triple time lol. Then the three last perks since we worked really long days we got a lunch and supper meal chit worth $15 each, then I got almost $500 for those 5 days to travel each way about 45 minutes all good highway. Not to mention my benefits started immediately after that week, I had a contribution made to my pension, not large but something atleast, and I was shit shocked my take home after taxes weeks pay was $3,783.98 bucks. I've worked both union and non-union no one can tell me non-union is better in any way whatsoever lol. Best of all we had to work hard long days but unlike the non-union industry we didn't have to busy our balls without recognition. Best advice you'll ever get go Union guys. Your all worth a pension, benefits, and an actual liveable salary. I worked for myself as well and the money is their to pay people these wages. Stick up for yourselves guys.
Just my two cents here... I work at a Unionized store. I look around and I see my coworkers dicking around most of the time. They don't work and when the front end people ask to go get something, they take forever. My conclusion based on my experience is YES Union workers are lazy just because they take advantage of the simple fact that Union workers can't be fired unless they steal something... If they got rid of that rule, I wonder how many workers would be competent enough to know what a "JOB" means... I'm sick of this horseshit of me being the work horse at my place. I'm quitting and looking for a Non-union job. The only real reason why Unions hate non-union is because the Non-union can't be taken advantage of. It's a sickening collective disease. Poor workers paychecks are cut by 10% or so because of their Union Fees on top of their taxes. That money could go to feed their children or take their girlfriends out on dates or something.
Now that's where u got it fucked up... I'm part of the Building Trades Union... no such thing as lazy here... we are the teamsters union... if you aren't producing work out on the field and making the company money... they'll cut you and you'll be sitting on the bench until your number is called
I am a 4th year IBEW apprentice. I busted my ass to get into this trade. It took me 3 times to get in but I put the time and effort in. I was a non-union worker for a year as well and wanted to push myself and possibly give my self a better life. I realize that some people get into unions because of who they know and not what they know. It does give unions a bad name because some people take advantage of it. For people to say all unions are bad seriously have not done enough research though. Take a hour of your life and watch "inequality for all". It gives you a great outlook on union and non-union sectors with hourly pay, health benefits, and retirement benefits. For those who say unions are politically involved, so are non-unions with right to work states. I realize it goes like this democrats- union, republicans- non-union. I wish this was not the case and both parties are ignorant and bash each other. If I am a union brain dead clown so are all the kids at NORTHWESTERN trying to Unionize.....Hmmmm it seems to me you have to be pretty damn smart to get into Northwestern if I am not mistaken?
John Johnson I've read some of your comments John ... I feel sorry for you ...you are hopelessly ignorant ... Emigrate to china ... you may be able to scrounge up a meal there ... I doubt though ..
Hey John I didn't vote for Obama...I don't vote cause I belive our political system is ignorant ... I guess you looked at what I said as well and feel the same? Thanks for being ignorant with no valid argument, but hey I'm just a "useless, ignorant piece of obama looking shit?" Thanks for giving hope to the blue collar kids who want to try and achieve the American dream ( union or non union). We should all just say screw what unions fought for, screw 40 hours a work week (cause that's not enough), screw making a decent wage with benefits to retire( cause they didn't bust their ass for 35 years of physical, back breaking labor to give people like us a place to shop for food, clothing and numerous other every day essentials). I hopr you don't have to work the rest of your life to leave your kids nothing, your house given up cause its not paid off and many other possibilities cause the unions fought to give us union, lazy.... etc that. THANK YOU for opening my eyes again to ignorance!
@OFT94 That is heavily dependent on the profession, Classic Trade's [Welding, Machine operation] Are more efficient through the apprenticeship method because of passed down knowledge and safety habits, the thing that hamstrings a union is it's unwillingness to punish the unproductive members because they fear giving up a job. And I agree with you that a sad part is opportunists that develop a poor work ethic because of the umbrella protection, but its a minority that makes us look bad.
@armymedic999 That's fallacious. The destitution of one heavily-unionized city does not prove that unions are, on the whole, are bad for the economy. Switzerland is the most competitive economy in the world. We are second. Switzerland's population is twice as unionized as ours. The third and fourth most competitive economies are Denmark and Sweden. Both have unionization rates of over 75% (in the US, it's 12%).
A majority of the coworkers I have work hard, but they start getting jaded in their place depending on their area, in my area, the mid seniority feel jaded by the high seniority, and then the company keeps the worst people for 'turnover' rate as far as newbies. I've not once put less effort in just because I'm unionized, and I have worked with non union workers that are just as dedicated to their craft in Home Improvment. Union are a balance for us to have upward mobility
Ken2234 I work for a small business. Only people working there meeting their bills are the owners. The rest of us are looking for other work. We are highly productive, but we don't have a union. Now you is the retodded won.
+Ken2234 They are if he wants you to keep working for him. You may be one of the few that treat their employees fairly. However due to your participation on this channel and anti-union attitude that probably lead you hear, I doubt it. If you are this militious towards organizations designed to protect or further a workers interest and practice this behaviour on employee nogotiations with you currently. You may wake up to find your workers rebeling and its only a matter of time before they organize
Ken2234 Well maybe you are one of the few good employers as I said. But that is a cliche saying I pay them what they are worth. I am glad to see you offer benefits and retiement plans as many employers do not. Unions are not needed everywhere but are needed when workers feel powerless and trapped. The cant feed your kids get a new job, still cant feed your kids get another job republican/conservative way is not exactly whats best for economy.
lol yeah private sector take care of their workers tahts why companys are making record profits and workers wages are at record lows in comparison stagnant since the 70s...You will be liking a conservative dream soon...cant feed your family still cant feed your family get another job=the republican way
The way I look at it if you don't have unions the people who employ people can make more but with unions the people who are the employees can make more so basically the argument is who do you think deserves the better pay/conditions
I love it when right-wingers attempt to say that, because of various worker protection laws, we don't need unions anymore. Then, of course, they also want to repeal laws like OSHA because "They're burdensome on business.".
Osha isn't a law its at this point in time a self funded corrupt buearuacratic organisation that needs to make new rules every time the revenue stops from the current rules becoming common practice. Its gotten out of control and become counterproductive.
Training, training, and more training. Thats what makes Union labor much more productive than scab labor. The Union labor is also more professional in being to work on time, and following safe practices in work. Union labor know they have to produce to command the wages and benefits they receive. Maybe instead of complaining about the cost of Union labor as a non union worker, organize and get yourself the same wages and benefits as Union workers receive.
It’s a conservative tenet that talent chases money, that the best talent is attracted to the best money. That’s why good CEOs and other executives are offered such good salaries and benefits. The same rule applies to blue collar labor-those with the most talent are attracted to the best money and conditions. Basic economics.
You can thank the unions for the 40 hour work week overtime holiday pay and prevailing wage.Yes we make more versus non union worker but we have to take training every year,and if you think safety is not important you are sadly mistaken.If your company has a bad safety record they pay out the ass for Insurance and some projects wont even let them on site unless there safety record is very good.
No, that stuff actually originated under Hitler's leadership in nazi Germany. Unions just used his ideas in America. Just saying, buddy. Same thing with environmentalism, and animal protectionism that other groups stole from Hitler.
The other two factors missing here is why do companies move to lower labor cost nations then and while they discuss skilled labor, they do not discuss unskilled labor. Many factories in North America use a lot of semi or unskilled labor (e.g., putting tires on new vehicles or bolting seats in). Skilled labor will always be more productive than unskilled labor, but unions support high wages for all workers making the total cost of factory labor unreasonable.
Tell that to a floater at GM,Chrysler or Ford that could hop on any one of 100 jobs at a moments notice,churn out 300-400 jobs a shift,at perfect quality. Tell that to the line worker that does the exact same job,hundreds of times a day,wearing their body away,risking carpul tunnel,shoulder,wrist,elbow,back and other repetitive motion injuries. Folks that work shift work,6 days two weeks out of three,with shifts of 8-11.5 hrs. mandatory. People that can spot a wrong lower control arm by site,on the car you've ordered,and gets it fixed before it leaves the line. I am an autoworker,I am a skilled tradesman. What corporate America chooses to call me in order to lessen my worth is not to be believed. Without our labor,there is no vehicle,no profit,no product. Our labor is valuable,and we demand we be paid as such. UAW Local's 110,136,and 2250,spanning almost 20 yrs.
I like hearing how the nonunion workers can do ten times the work as us lazy Union workers, and do so at half of the pay we get. Also, I love to hear how these non Union Titans will whoop all of our lazy Union asses. My only question is, is that one at a time, or all at once?
+okee dokee I was a Union member dedicated to my employer. They took great care of us and gave out plenty of extra perks. I'd never bad mouth the owner of that Company. Now I'm a retired union member and still feel the same way.
Conny Bjaaland they are prone to getting a sore jaw from talking allll day about their politics and not working. The site I'm working on a union electrician thought it was necessary to tell everyone at the morning meeting that there was a small puddle in the walkway that needed to be fixed. A PUDDLE. Typical, they would rather fuss about the smallest things in the name of "safety" rather than just avoiding a puddle on the ground and doing their job.
My uncles worked for Hoffa and Whitey Bulger in Somerville MA. They were both really pro union and were very active with the union. And by active I mean the union would hire my uncles to start riots on the picket lines, harass and physically harm those who were crossing picket lines, harass and harm politicians that would do anything the union felt wasn’t in their best interests. And my uncles used to ghost union jobs for the union all the time. Unions are a legal way for organized crime to extort money from taxpayers and hardworking people.
What about employee owned companies with unions vs non union? There are only 11? companies in the us that employee owned like Winco which is also union as well.
too bad this "Unbiased" research is not available for analysis or reading, where are the citations? i'd like to see it, if it's true and the same job types with the same year level employees from both sides, doing the same tasks yielded these results, i would believe it, if i had citations
They did not take into consideration the cost of labor compared to productivity. By looking at only productivity and not the total cost, this analysis is skewed. Once costs are factored in, lower productivity at an incrementally lower cost is better and the reason why firms move to developing nations for labor reasons. If union labor is more productive (still debatable by other studies), the price the union demands does not compensate for this increased cost (e.g., GM @ $71/hr labor cost)
Finally someone that knows what he is talking about. Study shows Union workers cost 17% more that Non Union. On a Davis Bacon construction project, there went all the profit
@@edwardfortin8422 Correct. That doesn't account for other factors such as extra benefits. Firms that don't make a profit don't last. This means union members get laid off. They often only see it one way.
every union job I've had I worked with some of the smartest hardest workers ever, you have to be a smart and hard worker to be union thats what seperates union and non union..non union might have a hard worker but he's dumb as a nail, or might be smart but can't hack it physically.
It's pretty simple. If unions were more productive than they would not need special laws requiring them to be used in union only cities. They would be used because they are the more productive choice and save the contractors money. Economics 101 folks.
It's called the Bacon Davis act you fucking useless know nothing moron... Tell me oh special one, just what laws are thou talking about ?? There is no such thing as "Union only cities".. Your about as bright as the pimple on my ass....
Really? How do you measure productivity? I want to see this study. I work for a printing company, and we often got outbid by union printers. The funny part is that Union Printer price usually double our price, and their turn around is usually twice as long, and their quality is often not as good as our (well this could be bias from me, but the person who handle the contract admitted it), But they get the priority because they are union printing companies.
Union vs Non-Union Productivity is about trained workers. When you invest in worker training, skill and ability rises. Simple enough. So I would be interested in an honest study that compares a union trained apprentice vs a trained apprentice from say ABC. If you are comparing worker productivity, safety, quality etc with a company that is NOT willing to invest in training and development, looks to save money by dodging safety regulations of course that is a problem.
I guess the super union productivity is why GM and Chrysler are doing so well. It also explains why foreign auto companies locate in right to work states. Those foreign companies obviously get the superior value unionized employees provide.
GM,Chrysler and Ford all over extended while cash and credit were easy. GM and Ford bought up European name plates and Chrysler sold off to Mercedes,which bled away our cash and engineering. You should know something about the businesses you speak of before you comment. Labor didn't create the problems but we sure suffered for them. UAW Local's 110,136 Chrysler minivan and Ram trucks,Fenton Mo.
I have worked for both all my life. The Unions in the USA are shit. They have nothing to give and everything to take. You pay dues for someone else to talk for you . If your Union doesn't like the results you are out of work for weeks and months at a time. If it is the AFLCIO then they will not do a damn thing for you. They also cause everything to go up in price all the time. Look at cars for example . The same basic car that cost $3000.00 in 1970 cast 30 grand today. The same basic house that cost $15000.00 then is 240 grand today. So yes the Union may get you more money but they have broken the country.
it I worked side by side union workers running some rigid conduit and they suck,I ran circles around there little squad.i don't think you can really compare nonunion and union workers like that,there's a lot of good and bad in both
Union workers are more productive? Thats why most of the public school teachers are such competent teachers and the teachers at the non-unionized charter and magnet schools are highly inferior when it comes to the competency of your average public school teachers.
if you want more money, and better working conditions...start your own business. why join a group? your pay will level off eventually and you'll be top tier; no more raises, hourly work is great but you can't ask the world of employers or clients for that matter who will only pay so much. without government contracts and union biased laws that force their use the market would decide quite quickly who to hire.
You cannot be serious. I've never seen lazy until I started managing a unionized workforce. They also have to be the sickest workers ever, we average 3 call ins a 24 hour period and the plant only has 54 workers.
Well thats bullshit... With the complete devide between non union residential and union commercial these days who are you to say that just because a union worker went through a "official apprenticeship" that hes any better then the worker whos been working his whole career learning from skilled custom home builders doing all aspects of a job rather then the one repetitive task union guys do day in day out... Union carpenters cant even plug in a god damn cord without a union sparky being there to do it for them. Bunch of lazy over paid entitled snooze bags.
Any time we get a rat plumber that comes to a union job and he's asked to lay out some piping he looks all confused. It's funny. They never know how to read blue prints. Stick to your shit low paying residential rat jobs and we will stick to the high-paying commercial jobs.
this is some class A bullshit... I am a truck driver; and when i go to warehouses that has union labor for their docks we get screwed; it takes them 3 to 5 hours to unload the truck. Whereas; in warehouses that dont have union labor gets us out in 1 hour to 2 tops. Not saying that union is bad but im saying it needs to be driven differently in which it keeps the flow going AND secure employees with the good pay and better job security.
+Ali Sanad Govt-connected groups have perverse economic incentives. They don't have to compete like a normal person in a market economy. They are protected by big brother govt and rewarded for failure with bigger budgets and payrolls.
Have some asshole boss bully you because he doesn't like the color of your hair,then tell me whether you'd like Union representation or not. I've worked both sides of the fence multiple times in my 45 yrs. out of necessity to keep a roof over my head. Most of the arguments here are valid to a certain degree but there is absolutely no denying that if you're faced with the same work,or work environment,Union will work best for you as a worker. Your safely is less in jeopardy,your pockets with be fatter,your long term living outlook both in health and retirement will be better. You'll know more about your trade,you'll be a true tradesman. Choice is simple for me,Union every time..UAW Locals 110,136 & 2250. Teamster's Local 525 with an honorable mention to Teamster's Local 50 for assistance and a caring,watchful eye,no dues required.
Bulls**t i work 40 damn hours a week in the damn rain and we are non-union i have never complained once about do you know why because i make a good wage and have good benefits better then any union could ever give us security guards.
What they don't really tell you is the cost. If you spend twice as much money on a project I would hope you'd see better production. They tell half the story because it benefits their political agenda. But if it were their money would they be willing to spend so much more? All government building including schools have prevailing wage which protects unions from having to compete against more efficient companies that are more than qualified. Who pays for this? We all do. And why is education so expensive? Why is the government so far in debt? To serve the few.
Prevailing wage does not protect the unions it protects the workers from scum bag contractors. My company bids against non-union companies every day and wins the work against the rats who pay half as much. This is in the union hating South. Union contractors get 95% of the work using the low bid process. Your a complete idiot the say the government in in debt because of unions. And education?? You should research before you post.
Scenario at every place I've worked at: Guy from union - which one of you guys wants to be union rep? Laziest, whiniest, chip on his shoulder worker of the group- Yeah I'll do it!
As a previous IBEW 1245 and 767.. you are full of it! I’m in the trenches and people are doing nothing at work and can not be fired! One guy fired 7 times.. I have never been trained by the union at all!!zero training from both unions.. moreover not promoted on achievements but only seniority ..
If unions are more productive, why aren't more companies using them? Union membership is declining constantly. Are companies doing things that are against their own best interests? If unions were more productive for companies, we would see companies encouraging union membership. Obviously we don't see this and this isn't true.
You know nothing and are totally uneducated...Our Carpenters union has increased by 35 % in the last 15 years...What a comical statement.. Keep believing what idiots who don't have a dam clue about the union keep filling ur head..
Mike I'm the one who is uneducated? And you are basing your information on one individual case? Obviously you know nothing about statistics. Read the facts: www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/02/24/the-incredible-decline-of-american-unions-in-one-animated-map/
ikeshia1981 Yes I know that, but the point is, unions might be more productive, but their pay is not worth their productivity. If they are 20% more productive, but want 40% more in wages, you see why companies would not want to hire them? Unions are bad for business. If they weren't, companies would hire them.
I face the stupidity that unions create every day. I am part of a small team of talented individuals that develop applications for health care. I work in government health care. We are payed at the same rate as people who type letters and push paper. We deliver applications to a large variety of people. But as soon as an application is found to 'eliminate' someones job the union steps in and this application that streamlines business processes and saves taxpayers money does not get adopted.
I did a project side by side. Us non-union and the other pipe company Union. The Union welder asked me to come over and see his 2 inch sch 40 stainless pipe weld. While he showed it to me he continued to down my partners welds. 2" pipe also. The Union welds were beautiful and my partners welds looked great but wasn't picture perfect. My partners welds were more than good enough to pass ANY visual or pictured test. ( they really looked good). The Union welder continued to call people over to look at his weld then point at my partners welds. See we had 2 fitters working to keep up with my partner. At the end of the day I sent the guys home a little early and wanted to stay back to deal with something. I went to the Union welder and told him it was wrong to belittle my partner and act like that. Its construction of course I didn't say it exactly like that. I asked the welder how many 2" welds he made today. He said I don't know. I said 5. He agreed because I counted. I told him my partner made 28. God honest truth. That is the difference everywhere I go!!!
The problem is that Unions don't "train" their workers, they just take their money and help the aformented worker become a cog in the machine that slowly dismantles their employer's business from within. As a whole, collective bargaining tactics used by unions grant raises and promotions based on seniority instead of merit, which encourages mediocrity and doing the bare minimum rather than encouraging productivity and innovation, whch is the real machine that makes the US economy competitive.
The most ridiculous thing I've read. Apprentice programs are some of the best programs on the planet for teaching. Ever have a scab work on your plumbing? How about an journeyman pipefitter? See which one you end up calling back to fix their work. Proper training,the right tools,the knowledge to get the job done quickly,and correctly. A contractor isn't making money on callbacks.
Well, probably because Detriot is largely manufacturing and automation has largely taken those jobs away. Union or non-union those jobs are gone and won't be coming back.
Not true!!! I was a non-union electrician, working under a licensed electrician who taught me everything. I joined the the IBEW. I was shocked at the laziness and the redundant safety precautions from the union workers. Union workers are like government workers, they take 3 breaks a day. Union workers are overpaid for nothing. I smoked all of these "union electricians" on my first day at work. They were in slow motion telling me to slow down. What a fucking joke! Luckily my old boss re-hired me
I keep hearing that GDP has risen significantly so workers have become more productive, while unions have been in significant decline over the past few decades. That would tend to contradict the claim that union workers are more productive.
A huge problem in this country is that many believe the hard workers should earn as much as their employers. People who think laborers should earn as much as CEOs because they "work harder" are naive. Executives are, for the most part, better educated and, to be blunt, more important than laborers. They get paid more to DESIGN what the laborers make. You don't get the bucks for building someone else's idea, you get them for coming up with the idea in the first place!
Let's see where that idea goes if there's no one there to build that idea into fruition. We want our fair share. Our cut. As corporate wages skyrocket,ours are stagnant or decreasing. Profits recorded at all time highs during peak economic cycles but we can't get a piece? We're forced to be competitive with low wage slave states,and you'd have us work for pennies? Sorry you might but this guy doesn't shop at walmart,nor do I have the mentality to subscribe to your notion of the walmart way of living.
@s1monb3lmont Unions had their place in the early 20th century as there was no OSHA back then, labor laws needed to be revamped, etc. Nowadays, those things ARE in place and the union does not need to protect the workers from those things as they are now already protected by law. Not to mention that federal/state employees don't need unions... what are the unions of those employees trying to protect them from? The taxpayer???????
By making business operations more complicated and expensive, unionization impedes productivity and competitiveness, harming companies and workers alike. Stop trying to say otherwise.
I was a mechanic for over 20 years. I've worked with both union and non-union mechanics, and the differences are like night and day. Most of the non-union mechanics I've worked with were very self motivated. They were eager to learn and take on new challenges. They cared about the customers, their co-workers and the company. Union mechanics on the other hand were by far the slowest, the dumbest, and the most selfish SOB's I've ever known. I wouldn't let a union mechanic change the spark plug in my lawn mower. In this one union dealer I worked at, the foreman picked me over guys that had much more experience to work directly under him because they need someone that actually cared about what they were doing to fix all the stupid crap that everyone else screwed up. Besides having to put up with blatant stupidity and a complete absence of work ethics on a daily basis, after deducting the very high union dues and the grossly inflated premiums on the unions horrible health care plan that we were forced to enroll in (even though my wife's employer had a much better plan at less than half the cost) it ended up being one of the lowest paying jobs I ever had. I quit in less than a year and swore to never join a union ever again. This was not the only time I have ever experienced union workers either. Virtually every union worker I've ever met across several different industries have been completely useless.
Union workers are overall lazier. You may have a few standouts. But they all want to work at a speed they can all feel comfortable with, since they normally all get paid the same. And that speed is always going to be at a slower speed...I had worked both, and been a supervisor for 17 years
Idiot moron brain washed by the powerful. Only you complete idiots, think that those at the bottom of the power totem pole, are powerful enough to spew out successful propaganda.
Union labor may seem to take longer but it actually is faster. The people that disagree are the same people that say safety regulations slow work down. United we bargain divided we beg!
Ryan Ray safety regulations have gotten out of control and absolutely do slow production down. Fuck osha and the horse they rode in on.
Jordan Bergmann Why do the large corporate construction companies want to comply with safety regulations? They are more than willing to break the laws if it makes them money. The reason behind them wanting to comply is simple, they want to make more money, they couldn't care less about workers getting injured or killed on the job. Now with all of that being said, having to follow some of the useless rules can really hurt smaller companies. I guess I should have put my first comment in context. Anyways, I have enjoyed our conversation, have fun and stay safe out there.
-Thanks,
Ryan Ray
Ryan Ray No... actually they comply because OSHA is more lilely to hit bigger companies with heavy fines that could cause a huge impact in there business. Smaller conpanies? Forget about it. A small company gets hit by oshas red tape beaureaucratic fines it will put them out of business but they're also less likely to be on oshas radar. And the useless rules arent just minor amnoyances they are becoming rules that make it impossible to get the work done efficiently. Im a carpenter dude... i know how it goes. Osha is self funded, once the current rules become common place and everyone is following them, osha stops making money therefore they create new rules for the sole purpose of fining companies for not following... just to keep themselves afloat. They're corrupt plain and simple. Fuck osha
Unions want productivity. I seen many men on jobs work one week. Then get laid off for no work productive. Like all companies they are trying to turn a profit. They don’t do lazy.
I just think it is funny how so many people are generalizing union vs non union. "Oh i saw a couple of union workers moving slow so all of them are slow". That is complete bull. I am a union worker and i work my ass off every freakin day. I train hard through the apprenticeship so i can learn a ton and know as much as possible to make me a better employee. The union takes care of me and protects me. They give us raises like we all deserve and that only encourages non union contractors to pay more as well. They give me great benefits for a family someday. I don't see how anyone can complain about that. I would never talk down to non union workers because frankly i don't care if they are non union. Ive seen plenty of bad non union workers but i am not going to sit here and write about how ALL of them are bad cause its simply not true for either side. Some are bad and some are good just like any career. Please grow up a little and get along. We are all electrical workers just trying to make a living.
ryan dehmer well said,sir!
Amen my Bruddah. Slow??? If you can do 26-52 stops a day on a beer truck and be considered slow...let me know. UNION THUG FOREVER !!!
I can't speak for all unions, but in the consrtucion field unions are far more efficient. Every unionized company requires all its journey workers at least 4 years of job related schooling and have the access to an almost unlimited amount of skilled workers needed to complete any job through the local union halls. The only reason a company would choose to go non union is so they can pay their employees less and offer no benefits. Who would you rather work for?
Apparently, very few that have commented on this topic have a clue to history or anything else going on in America. First of all, the unions helped to build this country and without it we would not be where we are today. Second, because you are union does NOT mean you voted for Obama. I am from a family that has union ties to the pipeline industry and the teaching profession and the two can not be compared. The teaching profession does not stand as one when it comes to being unionized, therefore doesn't accomplish much. As for all the comments against unions….it sounds like you want the US to become another third world country. Get educated, learn your history, and make an informed decision based on fact, not some crap you herd on main stream media.
John Johnson
VERY true, that comment. Unions are old hat.
Shawna Crabtree you dont know what youre talking about.
I know the union folks are better trained, I spent 18 years training apprentices. I was also trained while doing it. We as instructors were required to complete a 5 year program ourselves. I know the United Association does this for us, I don't know about the rest. If you want to down unions go back to before they came, and flip hamburgers 85-90 hrs a week for shit wages, or quit. These unions got all the conditions that we have today. Weekends, holidays, 40 hr weeks, benifits, and a decent wage.
Don't be an asshole. I taught all my students to be the best at what we do.
I worked both UNION and non-union (private). Let me tell you this, when you work non-union -- you could be fired anyday, any minute regardless of whatever, even if one person or boss hates you personally. AND you cannot choose which days you can take off (with no pay of course). I wish I worked UNION earlier in my life. When you say "I hate Union" , you're actually saying " I hate freedom". People need to wake up and smell the damn coffee. Stop throwing your freedom away.
Jack Ray You were so lucky not to work at the shipyard here in Pascagoula Mississippi they were Union and they would fire you for no reason but they sure would take your money
IBEW for life here.Unless your just clueless you would know how the unions benefit the non unions pay and benefits, holidays and over all working conditions.We all know there are lazy workers in every job field and thats a shame.But I am proud to be IBEW ans welcome all those who would want to make the switch.Have a safe holidays brothers and sisters.
couldn't agree with you more brother... IBEW local 104
Local 569
8 years later and this is still true!
Ibew 375
@OFT94 Try actually looking up the study. It definitely shows that unions are 17% more productive, at least in the construction industry. Unions in any industry can boost productivity by decreasing turnover, by increasing motivation, and by coordinating workers and management. Not all unions raise productivity, and those unions are bad. But unions are certainly capable of boosting productivity, and many do.
Of course. We get up, go to work for what? MONEY! for what? So we can SURVIVE! more money means happier employees which means they will do a better job than someone who is not happy.
Union is 1000x better man without question lol. I'm a Red Seal Plumber (our term for licensed Plumber here in Canada.) In the private sector any local plumbing company where I live keep wages at an all time low, hours, and work load extremely high. Without warning they can lay you off or fire you without serious reason. Also non-union have no agreement with their members. Now as for Union here goes without saying here in my hometown union wages for a licensed Plumber are $16/HR more lol so what do you think lol. Plus we have excellent benefits, pension plan, excellent hourly wages, a much higher cost of living, and a brotherhood looking out for each other. A big thing with our benefits we only need to work 40 hours to get them, then it doesn't matter whatever union company were with working our benefits transfer over how easy is that. Think about this three years ago I worked Thanksgiving Tuesday to that Thanksgiving Saturday. A large group of us Pipefitters and Plumbers worked usually 14-16 hours a day the entire time. We most non union companies here would simply be straight time without question. We first of all got Industrail wage which was $42.85/HR for a Licensed Plumber, we got straight time for 8 hours, then time and a half for over 10 hours a Day, we then got double time for anything over 12 hours a day. The Saturday we worked was another holiday and we got triple time lol. Then the three last perks since we worked really long days we got a lunch and supper meal chit worth $15 each, then I got almost $500 for those 5 days to travel each way about 45 minutes all good highway. Not to mention my benefits started immediately after that week, I had a contribution made to my pension, not large but something atleast, and I was shit shocked my take home after taxes weeks pay was $3,783.98 bucks. I've worked both union and non-union no one can tell me non-union is better in any way whatsoever lol. Best of all we had to work hard long days but unlike the non-union industry we didn't have to busy our balls without recognition. Best advice you'll ever get go Union guys. Your all worth a pension, benefits, and an actual liveable salary. I worked for myself as well and the money is their to pay people these wages. Stick up for yourselves guys.
Just my two cents here...
I work at a Unionized store. I look around and I see my coworkers dicking around most of the time. They don't work and when the front end people ask to go get something, they take forever. My conclusion based on my experience is YES Union workers are lazy just because they take advantage of the simple fact that Union workers can't be fired unless they steal something...
If they got rid of that rule, I wonder how many workers would be competent enough to know what a "JOB" means...
I'm sick of this horseshit of me being the work horse at my place. I'm quitting and looking for a Non-union job. The only real reason why Unions hate non-union is because the Non-union can't be taken advantage of. It's a sickening collective disease. Poor workers paychecks are cut by 10% or so because of their Union Fees on top of their taxes. That money could go to feed their children or take their girlfriends out on dates or something.
Now that's where u got it fucked up... I'm part of the Building Trades Union... no such thing as lazy here... we are the teamsters union... if you aren't producing work out on the field and making the company money... they'll cut you and you'll be sitting on the bench until your number is called
Tin Knocker His story is probably a lie anyway. Sounds more like he works at Home Depot. Those people barely do shit.
+Tin Knocker This Retired Laborer knows exactly where you are coming from. Thank God for that Union Pension!!! It shows up the first of every month.
When u r part of a union u feel valued and have a vested interest in being successful.
I am a 4th year IBEW apprentice. I busted my ass to get into this trade. It took me 3 times to get in but I put the time and effort in. I was a non-union worker for a year as well and wanted to push myself and possibly give my self a better life. I realize that some people get into unions because of who they know and not what they know. It does give unions a bad name because some people take advantage of it. For people to say all unions are bad seriously have not done enough research though. Take a hour of your life and watch "inequality for all". It gives you a great outlook on union and non-union sectors with hourly pay, health benefits, and retirement benefits. For those who say unions are politically involved, so are non-unions with right to work states. I realize it goes like this democrats- union, republicans- non-union. I wish this was not the case and both parties are ignorant and bash each other. If I am a union brain dead clown so are all the kids at NORTHWESTERN trying to Unionize.....Hmmmm it seems to me you have to be pretty damn smart to get into Northwestern if I am not mistaken?
John Johnson that's because you belong to the Fudge packers local.
John Johnson I've read some of your comments John ... I feel sorry for you ...you are hopelessly ignorant ... Emigrate to china ... you may be able to scrounge up a meal there ... I doubt though ..
Hey John I didn't vote for Obama...I don't vote cause I belive our political system is ignorant ... I guess you looked at what I said as well and feel the same? Thanks for being ignorant with no valid argument, but hey I'm just a "useless, ignorant piece of obama looking shit?" Thanks for giving hope to the blue collar kids who want to try and achieve the American dream ( union or non union). We should all just say screw what unions fought for, screw 40 hours a work week (cause that's not enough), screw making a decent wage with benefits to retire( cause they didn't bust their ass for 35 years of physical, back breaking labor to give people like us a place to shop for food, clothing and numerous other every day essentials). I hopr you don't have to work the rest of your life to leave your kids nothing, your house given up cause its not paid off and many other possibilities cause the unions fought to give us union, lazy.... etc that. THANK YOU for opening my eyes again to ignorance!
John is uneducated idiot that is jealous because he has to kiss ass to keep his job
OFT sounds like someone who wasnt qualified enough to get into a union, i have worked both sides of it , and union is the way to go...
The people who hate unions have this gut feeling that unions are a waste and cost money.
you heard it from a guy in a suit wearing glasses, Chrysler and General motors...."you're the best".
@OFT94 That is heavily dependent on the profession, Classic Trade's [Welding, Machine operation] Are more efficient through the apprenticeship method because of passed down knowledge and safety habits, the thing that hamstrings a union is it's unwillingness to punish the unproductive members because they fear giving up a job. And I agree with you that a sad part is opportunists that develop a poor work ethic because of the umbrella protection, but its a minority that makes us look bad.
@armymedic999 That's fallacious. The destitution of one heavily-unionized city does not prove that unions are, on the whole, are bad for the economy.
Switzerland is the most competitive economy in the world. We are second. Switzerland's population is twice as unionized as ours.
The third and fourth most competitive economies are Denmark and Sweden. Both have unionization rates of over 75% (in the US, it's 12%).
A majority of the coworkers I have work hard, but they start getting jaded in their place depending on their area, in my area, the mid seniority feel jaded by the high seniority, and then the company keeps the worst people for 'turnover' rate as far as newbies. I've not once put less effort in just because I'm unionized, and I have worked with non union workers that are just as dedicated to their craft in Home Improvment. Union are a balance for us to have upward mobility
Union = More productive for a happy community.
Non-union = Only happy for ceo's and stockholders, a.k.a the people who you aren't friends with.
Ken2234 I work for a small business. Only people working there meeting their bills are the owners. The rest of us are looking for other work. We are highly productive, but we don't have a union. Now you is the retodded won.
my employees have no problems paying bills. Your bills are also not your bosses problems.
+Ken2234 They are if he wants you to keep working for him. You may be one of the few that treat their employees fairly. However due to your participation on this channel and anti-union attitude that probably lead you hear, I doubt it. If you are this militious towards organizations designed to protect or further a workers interest and practice this behaviour on employee nogotiations with you currently. You may wake up to find your workers rebeling and its only a matter of time before they organize
Ken2234 Well maybe you are one of the few good employers as I said. But that is a cliche saying I pay them what they are worth. I am glad to see you offer benefits and retiement plans as many employers do not. Unions are not needed everywhere but are needed when workers feel powerless and trapped. The cant feed your kids get a new job, still cant feed your kids get another job republican/conservative way is not exactly whats best for economy.
lol yeah private sector take care of their workers tahts why companys are making record profits and workers wages are at record lows in comparison stagnant since the 70s...You will be liking a conservative dream soon...cant feed your family still cant feed your family get another job=the republican way
Jobs these days still have horrible problems, deeming we need unions. Also, unions help keep in place jobs we already have.
The way I look at it if you don't have unions the people who employ people can make more but with unions the people who are the employees can make more so basically the argument is who do you think deserves the better pay/conditions
better training is just a fact
I love it when right-wingers attempt to say that, because of various worker protection laws, we don't need unions anymore. Then, of course, they also want to repeal laws like OSHA because "They're burdensome on business.".
Osha isn't a law its at this point in time a self funded corrupt buearuacratic organisation that needs to make new rules every time the revenue stops from the current rules becoming common practice. Its gotten out of control and become counterproductive.
Union😊! I work damn hard!
Training, training, and more training. Thats what makes Union labor much more productive than scab labor. The Union labor is also more professional in being to work on time, and following safe practices in work. Union labor know they have to produce to command the wages and benefits they receive.
Maybe instead of complaining about the cost of Union labor as a non union worker, organize and get yourself the same wages and benefits as Union workers receive.
It’s a conservative tenet that talent chases money, that the best talent is attracted to the best money. That’s why good CEOs and other executives are offered such good salaries and benefits. The same rule applies to blue collar labor-those with the most talent are attracted to the best money and conditions. Basic economics.
You can thank the unions for the 40 hour work week overtime holiday pay and prevailing wage.Yes we make more versus non union worker but we have to take training every year,and if you think safety is not important you are sadly mistaken.If your company has a bad safety record they pay out the ass for Insurance and some projects wont even let them on site unless there safety record is very good.
No, that stuff actually originated under Hitler's leadership in nazi Germany. Unions just used his ideas in America. Just saying, buddy. Same thing with environmentalism, and animal protectionism that other groups stole from Hitler.
Sadly enough, we brought nions onto ourselves with Rockefeller, Vanderbilt and Carnegie paying their employees with rocks, basically.
yup I've worked non union not proud of it but union is by far better
The other two factors missing here is why do companies move to lower labor cost nations then and while they discuss skilled labor, they do not discuss unskilled labor. Many factories in North America use a lot of semi or unskilled labor (e.g., putting tires on new vehicles or bolting seats in). Skilled labor will always be more productive than unskilled labor, but unions support high wages for all workers making the total cost of factory labor unreasonable.
Tell that to a floater at GM,Chrysler or Ford that could hop on any one of 100 jobs at a moments notice,churn out 300-400 jobs a shift,at perfect quality. Tell that to the line worker that does the exact same job,hundreds of times a day,wearing their body away,risking carpul tunnel,shoulder,wrist,elbow,back and other repetitive motion injuries. Folks that work shift work,6 days two weeks out of three,with shifts of 8-11.5 hrs. mandatory. People that can spot a wrong lower control arm by site,on the car you've ordered,and gets it fixed before it leaves the line. I am an autoworker,I am a skilled tradesman. What corporate America chooses to call me in order to lessen my worth is not to be believed. Without our labor,there is no vehicle,no profit,no product. Our labor is valuable,and we demand we be paid as such. UAW Local's 110,136,and 2250,spanning almost 20 yrs.
They failed to mention that the Independent evaluation firm was part of the local independent evaluators union.
I like hearing how the nonunion workers can do ten times the work as us lazy Union workers, and do so at half of the pay we get. Also, I love to hear how these non Union Titans will whoop all of our lazy Union asses. My only question is, is that one at a time, or all at once?
+okee dokee I was a Union member dedicated to my employer. They took great care of us and gave out plenty of extra perks. I'd never bad mouth the owner of that Company. Now I'm a retired union member and still feel the same way.
ua-cam.com/video/vl1gdAheKDQ/v-deo.html
Who is safer . . . UNION!
Conny Bjaaland without question.
Not a whole lot of danger involved in sitting on your ass.
Conny Bjaaland they are prone to getting a sore jaw from talking allll day about their politics and not working. The site I'm working on a union electrician thought it was necessary to tell everyone at the morning meeting that there was a small puddle in the walkway that needed to be fixed. A PUDDLE. Typical, they would rather fuss about the smallest things in the name of "safety" rather than just avoiding a puddle on the ground and doing their job.
Haha exactly, union workers have perfected that!
Til' a mishap happens and your boss "forgot" to tell you he hasn't been keeping up with his workman's comp. insurance. True story.
My uncles worked for Hoffa and Whitey Bulger in Somerville MA. They were both really pro union and were very active with the union. And by active I mean the union would hire my uncles to start riots on the picket lines, harass and physically harm those who were crossing picket lines, harass and harm politicians that would do anything the union felt wasn’t in their best interests. And my uncles used to ghost union jobs for the union all the time.
Unions are a legal way for organized crime to extort money from taxpayers and hardworking people.
What about employee owned companies with unions vs non union?
There are only 11? companies in the us that employee owned like
Winco which is also union as well.
too bad this "Unbiased" research is not available for analysis or reading, where are the citations? i'd like to see it, if it's true and the same job types with the same year level employees from both sides, doing the same tasks yielded these results, i would believe it, if i had citations
when costs are put on the tax payer and government makes rules excluding non union labor from competing....what else would this "number" say?
They did not take into consideration the cost of labor compared to productivity. By looking at only productivity and not the total cost, this analysis is skewed. Once costs are factored in, lower productivity at an incrementally lower cost is better and the reason why firms move to developing nations for labor reasons. If union labor is more productive (still debatable by other studies), the price the union demands does not compensate for this increased cost (e.g., GM @ $71/hr labor cost)
Finally someone that knows what he is talking about. Study shows Union workers cost 17% more that Non Union. On a Davis Bacon construction project, there went all the profit
@@edwardfortin8422 Correct. That doesn't account for other factors such as extra benefits. Firms that don't make a profit don't last. This means union members get laid off. They often only see it one way.
every union job I've had I worked with some of the smartest hardest workers ever, you have to be a smart and hard worker to be union thats what seperates union and non union..non union might have a hard worker but he's dumb as a nail, or might be smart but can't hack it physically.
It's pretty simple. If unions were more productive than they would not need special laws requiring them to be used in union only cities. They would be used because they are the more productive choice and save the contractors money. Economics 101 folks.
+Zack Wright (RaspiWorker) Comment of the year, right there. Irrefutable.
It's called the Bacon Davis act you fucking useless know nothing moron... Tell me oh special one, just what laws are thou talking about ?? There is no such thing as "Union only cities".. Your about as bright as the pimple on my ass....
Mike
Explain Chicago ya jagoff.
Well non union are just cheaper overall and due to that fact the union is going down all us apprentices are getting fucked
Zack Wright really do u believe the bosses look at u as essential. U r just a warm body.they feel they can always get another warm body.
Really? How do you measure productivity? I want to see this study. I work for a printing company, and we often got outbid by union printers. The funny part is that Union Printer price usually double our price, and their turn around is usually twice as long, and their quality is often not as good as our (well this could be bias from me, but the person who handle the contract admitted it), But they get the priority because they are union printing companies.
Yea luckily, Glass workers don't get 3 breaks a day,I wish. Those pieces of glass and aluminum don't carry thereselves to the openings.
Union vs Non-Union Productivity is about trained workers. When you invest in worker training, skill and ability rises. Simple enough. So I would be interested in an honest study that compares a union trained apprentice vs a trained apprentice from say ABC.
If you are comparing worker productivity, safety, quality etc with a company that is NOT willing to invest in training and development, looks to save money by dodging safety regulations of course that is a problem.
I guess the super union productivity is why GM and Chrysler are doing so well. It also explains why foreign auto companies locate in right to work states. Those foreign companies obviously get the superior value unionized employees provide.
GM,Chrysler and Ford all over extended while cash and credit were easy. GM and Ford bought up European name plates and Chrysler sold off to Mercedes,which bled away our cash and engineering. You should know something about the businesses you speak of before you comment. Labor didn't create the problems but we sure suffered for them. UAW Local's 110,136 Chrysler minivan and Ram trucks,Fenton Mo.
@@satanertau2689 thank you for your comments
I have worked for both all my life. The Unions in the USA are shit. They have nothing to give and everything to take. You pay dues for someone else to talk for you . If your Union doesn't like the results you are out of work for weeks and months at a time. If it is the AFLCIO then they will not do a damn thing for you. They also cause everything to go up in price all the time. Look at cars for example . The same basic car that cost $3000.00 in 1970 cast 30 grand today. The same basic house that cost $15000.00 then is 240 grand today. So yes the Union may get you more money but they have broken the country.
it I worked side by side union workers running some rigid conduit and they suck,I ran circles around there little squad.i don't think you can really compare nonunion and union workers like that,there's a lot of good and bad in both
Union workers are more productive? Thats why most of the public school teachers are such competent teachers and the teachers at the non-unionized charter and magnet schools are highly inferior when it comes to the competency of your average public school teachers.
if you want more money, and better working conditions...start your own business. why join a group? your pay will level off eventually and you'll be top tier; no more raises, hourly work is great but you can't ask the world of employers or clients for that matter who will only pay so much. without government contracts and union biased laws that force their use the market would decide quite quickly who to hire.
Unions are more skilled, and safer
Union reps are lazy and only do as little as they can get away with! I have seen it many times!
You cannot be serious. I've never seen lazy until I started managing a unionized workforce. They also have to be the sickest workers ever, we average 3 call ins a 24 hour period and the plant only has 54 workers.
TheRedwings05 , actually these are all straight disability days...not even turned in for FMLA.
Well thats bullshit... With the complete devide between non union residential and union commercial these days who are you to say that just because a union worker went through a "official apprenticeship" that hes any better then the worker whos been working his whole career learning from skilled custom home builders doing all aspects of a job rather then the one repetitive task union guys do day in day out... Union carpenters cant even plug in a god damn cord without a union sparky being there to do it for them. Bunch of lazy over paid entitled snooze bags.
Any time we get a rat plumber that comes to a union job and he's asked to lay out some piping he looks all confused. It's funny. They never know how to read blue prints. Stick to your shit low paying residential rat jobs and we will stick to the high-paying commercial jobs.
this is some class A bullshit... I am a truck driver; and when i go to warehouses that has union labor for their docks we get screwed; it takes them 3 to 5 hours to unload the truck. Whereas; in warehouses that dont have union labor gets us out in 1 hour to 2 tops. Not saying that union is bad but im saying it needs to be driven differently in which it keeps the flow going AND secure employees with the good pay and better job security.
+Ali Sanad Govt-connected groups have perverse economic incentives. They don't have to compete like a normal person in a market economy. They are protected by big brother govt and rewarded for failure with bigger budgets and payrolls.
union workers get breaks every 2 hrs non union doesn't
Have some asshole boss bully you because he doesn't like the color of your hair,then tell me whether you'd like Union representation or not. I've worked both sides of the fence multiple times in my 45 yrs. out of necessity to keep a roof over my head. Most of the arguments here are valid to a certain degree but there is absolutely no denying that if you're faced with the same work,or work environment,Union will work best for you as a worker. Your safely is less in jeopardy,your pockets with be fatter,your long term living outlook both in health and retirement will be better. You'll know more about your trade,you'll be a true tradesman. Choice is simple for me,Union every time..UAW Locals 110,136 & 2250. Teamster's Local 525 with an honorable mention to Teamster's Local 50 for assistance and a caring,watchful eye,no dues required.
Unions are best
Bulls**t i work 40 damn hours a week in the damn rain and we are non-union i have never complained once about do you know why because i make a good wage and have good benefits better then any union could ever give us security guards.
Yeah, that guy was obviously "independent" and "unbiased".... lol!
I've never seen as many lazy workers as I did when I worked for a union.
they put up the money from the workers. just so you know.
The union is more organized
What they don't really tell you is the cost. If you spend twice as much money on a project I would hope you'd see better production. They tell half the story because it benefits their political agenda. But if it were their money would they be willing to spend so much more? All government building including schools have prevailing wage which protects unions from having to compete against more efficient companies that are more than qualified. Who pays for this? We all do. And why is education so expensive? Why is the government so far in debt? To serve the few.
Prevailing wage does not protect the unions it protects the workers from scum bag contractors. My company bids against non-union companies every day and wins the work against the rats who pay half as much. This is in the union hating South. Union contractors get 95% of the work using the low bid process. Your a complete idiot the say the government in in debt because of unions. And education?? You should research before you post.
That's kind if a stupid comment John.
Local 45
Sheet metal workers
Scenario at every place I've worked at: Guy from union - which one of you guys wants to be union rep? Laziest, whiniest, chip on his shoulder worker of the group- Yeah I'll do it!
Laborers 1184
As a previous IBEW 1245 and 767.. you are full of it! I’m in the trenches and people are doing nothing at work and can not be fired! One guy fired 7 times.. I have never been trained by the union at all!!zero training from both unions.. moreover not promoted on achievements but only seniority ..
People work more for more
If unions are more productive, why aren't more companies using them? Union membership is declining constantly. Are companies doing things that are against their own best interests? If unions were more productive for companies, we would see companies encouraging union membership. Obviously we don't see this and this isn't true.
You know nothing and are totally uneducated...Our Carpenters union has increased by 35 % in the last 15 years...What a comical statement.. Keep believing what idiots who don't have a dam clue about the union keep filling ur head..
non union = lower wages
Mike I'm the one who is uneducated? And you are basing your information on one individual case? Obviously you know nothing about statistics. Read the facts:
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/02/24/the-incredible-decline-of-american-unions-in-one-animated-map/
ikeshia1981 Yes I know that, but the point is, unions might be more productive, but their pay is not worth their productivity. If they are 20% more productive, but want 40% more in wages, you see why companies would not want to hire them? Unions are bad for business. If they weren't, companies would hire them.
I face the stupidity that unions create every day. I am part of a small team of talented individuals that develop applications for health care. I work in government health care. We are payed at the same rate as people who type letters and push paper.
We deliver applications to a large variety of people. But as soon as an application is found to 'eliminate' someones job the union steps in and this application that streamlines business processes and saves taxpayers money does not get adopted.
I did a project side by side. Us non-union and the other pipe company Union. The Union welder asked me to come over and see his 2 inch sch 40 stainless pipe weld. While he showed it to me he continued to down my partners welds. 2" pipe also. The Union welds were beautiful and my partners welds looked great but wasn't picture perfect. My partners welds were more than good enough to pass ANY visual or pictured test. ( they really looked good). The Union welder continued to call people over to look at his weld then point at my partners welds. See we had 2 fitters working to keep up with my partner. At the end of the day I sent the guys home a little early and wanted to stay back to deal with something. I went to the Union welder and told him it was wrong to belittle my partner and act like that. Its construction of course I didn't say it exactly like that. I asked the welder how many 2" welds he made today. He said I don't know. I said 5. He agreed because I counted. I told him my partner made 28. God honest truth. That is the difference everywhere I go!!!
Haha amen brotha
Got to set stakes to see if they are even moving
The problem is that Unions don't "train" their workers, they just take their money and help the aformented worker become a cog in the machine that slowly dismantles their employer's business from within.
As a whole, collective bargaining tactics used by unions grant raises and promotions based on seniority instead of merit, which encourages mediocrity and doing the bare minimum rather than encouraging productivity and innovation, whch is the real machine that makes the US economy competitive.
The most ridiculous thing I've read. Apprentice programs are some of the best programs on the planet for teaching. Ever have a scab work on your plumbing? How about an journeyman pipefitter? See which one you end up calling back to fix their work. Proper training,the right tools,the knowledge to get the job done quickly,and correctly. A contractor isn't making money on callbacks.
Demi white must not be union
Union all the way iw397
Union 2379 👍
Ok explain why Detroit is deserted if unions are perfect.
Well, probably because Detriot is largely manufacturing and automation has largely taken those jobs away. Union or non-union those jobs are gone and won't be coming back.
Governor change the water supply source and Michigan got fucked over
Team Union!
Not true!!! I was a non-union electrician, working under a licensed electrician who taught me everything. I joined the the IBEW. I was shocked at the laziness and the redundant safety precautions from the union workers. Union workers are like government workers, they take 3 breaks a day. Union workers are overpaid for nothing. I smoked all of these "union electricians" on my first day at work. They were in slow motion telling me to slow down. What a fucking joke! Luckily my old boss re-hired me
duh man hrs, . is where the money is at
I keep hearing that GDP has risen significantly so workers have become more productive, while unions have been in significant decline over the past few decades. That would tend to contradict the claim that union workers are more productive.
Union propaganda
A huge problem in this country is that many believe the hard workers should earn as much as their employers. People who think laborers should earn as much as CEOs because they "work harder" are naive. Executives are, for the most part, better educated and, to be blunt, more important than laborers. They get paid more to DESIGN what the laborers make. You don't get the bucks for building someone else's idea, you get them for coming up with the idea in the first place!
Let's see where that idea goes if there's no one there to build that idea into fruition. We want our fair share. Our cut. As corporate wages skyrocket,ours are stagnant or decreasing. Profits recorded at all time highs during peak economic cycles but we can't get a piece? We're forced to be competitive with low wage slave states,and you'd have us work for pennies? Sorry you might but this guy doesn't shop at walmart,nor do I have the mentality to subscribe to your notion of the walmart way of living.
OUTSOURCE!
+Joe Grodis Your job first!!!
How are the unionized worker "better trained"? That's an opinion.
@s1monb3lmont Unions had their place in the early 20th century as there was no OSHA back then, labor laws needed to be revamped, etc. Nowadays, those things ARE in place and the union does not need to protect the workers from those things as they are now already protected by law. Not to mention that federal/state employees don't need unions... what are the unions of those employees trying to protect them from? The taxpayer???????
Lol stop ur lies
By making business operations more complicated and expensive, unionization impedes productivity and competitiveness, harming companies and workers alike.
Stop trying to say otherwise.
union do good in big projects highrisers etc.
but on small jobs nonunion rules
I was a mechanic for over 20 years. I've worked with both union and non-union mechanics, and the differences are like night and day. Most of the non-union mechanics I've worked with were very self motivated. They were eager to learn and take on new challenges. They cared about the customers, their co-workers and the company. Union mechanics on the other hand were by far the slowest, the dumbest, and the most selfish SOB's I've ever known. I wouldn't let a union mechanic change the spark plug in my lawn mower. In this one union dealer I worked at, the foreman picked me over guys that had much more experience to work directly under him because they need someone that actually cared about what they were doing to fix all the stupid crap that everyone else screwed up. Besides having to put up with blatant stupidity and a complete absence of work ethics on a daily basis, after deducting the very high union dues and the grossly inflated premiums on the unions horrible health care plan that we were forced to enroll in (even though my wife's employer had a much better plan at less than half the cost) it ended up being one of the lowest paying jobs I ever had. I quit in less than a year and swore to never join a union ever again. This was not the only time I have ever experienced union workers either. Virtually every union worker I've ever met across several different industries have been completely useless.
Chad P
Horse...Shit...Union propaganda...straight up and down....
Union workers are overall lazier. You may have a few standouts. But they all want to work at a speed they can all feel comfortable with, since they normally all get paid the same. And that speed is always going to be at a slower speed...I had worked both, and been a supervisor for 17 years
Idiot moron brain washed by the powerful. Only you complete idiots, think that those at the bottom of the power totem pole, are powerful enough to spew out successful propaganda.
lmao, yea, ok.. Of course your gonna say that when ur not in the union...
Hey if u wanna work your ass off for less wages and disrespectful working conditions. Be my guest. I'd jus say ur a moron.
work smarter not harder...