Following the live show, I thought it might be useful to share a decent resolution version of the evidence bag image. You can zoom this copy a little more and see more details. Check out our post on the community tab to download it: ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxwOMr-cBLcw5lkpLO2wFzPmdsCeztJcMf?si=04uaBLuNmjvSYNTH
We shouldn't all have to suffer because of one idiot. When we here of a fatal accident cause by an idiot cyclist, we don't ban all cyclists. No legislation will stop idiots acting outside the law.
Agreed. Although it isn't one idiot. Take a look at any social media platform, and you will find multiple flights a day being posted that show either illegal or unsafe drone flight. The cyclist example if a good one. With cycling, you have a pastime that has been with us for many generations. So people are used to it and accept the benefits automatically. Drones are different. They are still a new technology, and as many focus on the camera and what it captures, the public are suspicious and even afraid of them. So we need to start self policing in a more effective way to show them we as a community care.
People saying a drone couldn't do this much damage are forgetting about is Kinetic Energy. If the plane is flying at 120 Knots (138MPH) and the drone is flying at 40 knots (46MPH) the combined speed is around 184 MPH. That is enough to cause huge amounts of damage, and easily enough to punch a hole through a wing. We all saw what happened to the Space Shuttle when a chunk of foam hit the leading edge of the wing, as what happened in this case. The Aluminium of the wings on aircraft is very thin, and needs to be for lightness. This is one of the reasons I have a huge dislike for these so called Audit channels on UA-cam who quite clearly, and constantly flout VLOS, and the comments section of these videos are all how wonderful a job they are doing to hold the police and security to account, yet break the law 95% of the time.
Exactly. It was a long time ago for most of us, but: Force = Mass × Acceleration, and Pressure = Force ÷ Area You don't need a huge amount of force in the first place if the point of impact is small. If it was a metre wide RC wing with the same mass then perhaps it might not have gone through, but a quad is very dense. The mass is not spread out.
well, that piece of foam damaged the fragile thermal protection tile(s) and not the airframe of the shuttle... it was the heat from re-entry that caused the failure.
You have assumed that the drone was flying towards the plane. it could have been flying away, combined speed 92 MPH. or anything inbetween 92MPH to 184MPH. However I totally agree with you about kinetic energy
@@RecklessRowly even if the drone was 'hovering' the impact of the plane flying even at 'slow' speeds for a plane would have enough energy to cause that damage. Totally reckless to be flying a drone near the fires regardless.
"perhaps as a drone community it's time we stopped talking about how little damage a drone can cause a manned aircraft, and unite to start to condemn this type of flippant drone use". 100%.
Guess you want too get rid of all living birds also. Did about the same amount of damage as a bird strike. Your name here, is contrary to you dumb idea. Thousands of bird strikes, very few drone strikes. How about you go back to the meteor, you landed in. Restrict freedoms ? Stupid.
@@tommcgrt66 a flyaway means you put the drone up near a tfr in a strong wind, still drone operators error, therefore still responsible. If dji flight log shows it wasn't due to wind and was an error in the drone, then operator can use that as a defence.
It's time for the drone rule-breakers to GROW UP. If they don't the hobby will be banned, because one care-less incident can cause hundreds of families to be bereaved of their loved ones.
I've worked in the aviation industry for more than 40 years, and I can assure all you doubters that a drone of this size can do damage like this. Birds, which are even lighter can do significant damage. And to those who point out that the drone parts are recognisable as mitigation .. Parts don't vapourise on impact. In bird strikes on A/C bits of the bird survive even fast jet impacts, so much so that the actual species can often still be identified. Feathers and all. Also consider that the space Shuttle Columbia had it wing punctured on take off by a piece of insulating foam which ultimately lead to the loss off the A/C and it's crew.
Those that need a simple physics reminder, a baseball weighs 149g, thats 100g LIGHTER than a mini drone. Imagine that baseball impacting at 160mph, the approx speed of the airplane.....
@@Geeksvana yeah, I agree, Geeks. Personally, I think it’s an attempt at claiming a drone incident. I’m a pilot, not buying the story nor the evidence.
The only thing that I think is a bit odd about the picture from the evidence bag is that the shattered drone appears to be almost complete. I am surprised to see, what appears to be at least one of the very delicate rotor blades separated but largely intact. Have these photos been independently verified.
I tend to agree. I cannot understand how the damage occurred. The front of the drone is damaged and the rear of the battery is damaged. The battery would seem to have exited the body from the underside, which would indicate that the initial impact rotated the drone. However, the damage does not support this.
I have some thoughts you might want to consider; First, DJI has Geo Fencing that should have not allowed take off in the area, so I might assume it took off outside the area. Second, this drones wind resistance is lower then the CA winds. Once it was up, the local winds were in control of the drone, not the pilot, this is still the pilots responsibility. A fully charged battery might last 20 minutes with the drone attempting a RTH, 20 minutes 70mph wind, this drone easily could have traveled 25 miles.
Those are a lot of if buts and maybes. The geofencing is easily set aside with a few clicks of a mouse. You are suggesting an incredible set of steps to have taken place, when the more obvious answer is much simpler. But that is what investigations are for and as they have the battery serial, I expect the flight paths will be confirmed.
I don't think in it will work With a disaster like this overly likely the mobile network will be damage, and mostlike people in the area did not will not receive a temperly air restrection, if you look at the current web, Elon is sending his starlink and cybertruck as a power unit in the area to provide temptery wifi station tell how bad the area is on network
26:26 fully agree this is the important point that so many seem to be missing, unless the responsible majority call out those who are willing to act recklessly, we will continue to be regulated to the point where hobby flying becomes impossible
@@littlebluedinosaur but how exactly are you going to call them out? They aren't listening to stuff like this, if they were they probably wouldn't be a problem in the first place.
@Nkkdxn45j question was to someone else but my answer would be that we need to call them out at source. On the posts. The 'community' need to stop shutting down so called 'drone police' if the complaint is reasonable. If the hobby self policed more on social media, this would not be as accepted as it is.
Simple... u own a drone and fly it... be careful, thats basically all that is asked I have owned a drone for low altitude flight... for 5 years or more... simply for photos that take out of the scene images that contain pylons, cables,.. just to get the perfect picture. Who needs a 10x10 sq mile picture from a 20mpix camera? As always, the good people will pay for the lesser respectful people. Safe flight, and respectful flights to all... 🙏
Wise words. Question I ask myself: is dji nanny no flight zone is actually a good thing if it isn't complete with a live restrictions. Most new and naive people just assume that the dji drone wouldn't take off if it wasn't legal. I've heard it many times
What is on the drones internal memory, flight data etc. Also remember with Dji drones in normal flight mode, all the information is hovered up and sent by internet link in the controller to Dji where it is stored against the drone and controllers registered serial number. This can and is recovered by Dji on a regular basis. Think what happens if you report an incident like a fly away. They pull up the flight data for analysis. With Dji, Big Brother is always watching. Last, always follow the rules. Even if you don't agree
In terms of blocking signals, that is of course possible, but is a serious thing to do. Bear in mind drones use publicly accessible bands, and there is therefore a risk of blocking devices that are quite legitimately active, possibly necessary. The reaction needs to match the threat.
People who think the cost wouldn't be that much obviously have absolutely no idea of the cost of items in aviation. Not only is there the cost of the part but then there's the cost for the engineers (they don't come cheap) and in a lot of cases there are then the costs due to recertification and downtime due to that. The one major cost that people are missing here though is the cost to life and property. With that aircraft out of service for any amount of time that could be a life on the ground lost or buildings burning down that didn't need to. Those kinds of costs are unimaginable and impossible to put a figure on.
Hi Sean It’s easy. Don’t fly your drone. The situation is dire. Don’t risk the safety of emergency services. These idiots should face the consequences of their stupidity. No excuses. Don’t launch your drone. These amazing emergency personnel have enough to deal with. They shouldn’t have to dodge drones.
Hey! Looking the remaining parts, it doesn't look like any of the body of the drone survived. Not within the pic we have. There is a board of some type, but the not the right one. If there is footage, it would likely be part of the investigation they don't want to share at the moment.
@@Geeksvana If the photo is genuine the remaining parts must have survived and also be inside the aircraft wing with the rest of drone. Those parts might be minuscule but they would still be detectable by investigators, including an SD card, Now I have no problem accepting a drone might have caused the damage, but the picture of the evidence bag looks very suspicious. Has this photo been independently verified?
The photo is directly from FBI to press office. There is more than one evidence bag in the report. This has been shown to public in response to requests for evidence. The rest of the drone is more likely to be in tiny bits across Los Angeles. The battery is the lump that likely pushed this through along with the parts ahead of it. There will be a good amount of evidence they will not release at this stage of investigation.
Great Video Sean, with you all the way and your tone is justified. Thanks also for bringing up aeromodellers whos hobby is being impacted, even threatened by irrisponsible drone use. I fly models and light aircraft and see the issue from both sides. Nothing against drones, they are a wonderful tool and a great hobby. Hoping that there is an element of a fad with drones and interest will die down soon leaving drones to the more serious hobby and professional pilot/operators. Like Segways and 3D TV
I'm sorry but this flight was NOTHING to do with regulations. Irresponsible people don't care what those are but the rules also created this drone, namely a small brick (battery) surrounded by the lightest, flimsiest plastic they can find. Even a mini 2 has a battery compartment and more integrity. A 300gm mini 3 Pro with sturdier arms, a better protected battery and perhaps prop guards all softening the impact would be safer to both humans and aircraft. I have given up flying because of my frustration that worldwide regulations designed to pander to those that don't know and show the illusion of increased safety. I'm not against rules, registrations etc but they must be relevant and increase actual safety, not just the illusion of safety ..... until something like this happens. The stronger the numerous pointless regs are, the more likely things like this happen. The harder it is to comply, the more likely this sort of thing is.
I agree it has nothing to do with regulations. No written law would stop the worst offenders of any crime. Sadly, tougher regulations are what we are likely to get. We need to start as a community calling out the blatant flights posted on social media and show that we can self police.
The talks of banning drones in America have been brought up against and they still trying to put the ban in. This incident definitely ain't going to help drone flyers in America 😢
I'm surprised that given the scale of the fires and the proliferation of consumer drones (and the minority of pilots who are irresponsible and flout drone laws and rules), that counter-drone tech wasn't deployed in The affected areas sooner to protect emergency workers. You can understand curiosity and a desire to capture a major disaster from the air, but ignoring a TFR and doing so is just stupid and reckless.
It's surprising how their is no damage to the top part of the shell of the drone and it's like they have made sure it had to be a dji, to put extra pressure on the banning of drones. The pilot of that drone has already been found and awaiting what he is to be charged for 😢
Hey Gary! I don't think it was needed. Even a motor or a single part could have been traced back. This was bound to happen with the sheer amount of people flying drones in those TFRs recently.
That wing can't be more than 9 inches thick, the chances of the drone hitting the plane wing smack in the centre of the leading edge so it doesn't deflect the force of the drone hit must be millions to one, unlucky or what? Any motorcyclist that's been hit in the face by a small insect at 50 + mph can tell you how much force is exserted when an object hits anything at speed.
Why would they plant it? There isn't an outcome to justify the cover-up. The debris looks right to punch a 6x3 hole in metal that is only about twice as thick as a coke can. Remember it hit the section of wing without anything behind the sheet metal between ribs.
@ to me I would have expected much more damage to the drone plastic body etc, also interesting that all parts were recovered? Considering the current anti DJI rhetoric in the USA? Conspiracy theory maybe… but really that drone should have more missing parts and be more broken IMO. Cheers.
9:20 but doesn’t the Mini 3 Pro always broadcast RID? So wouldn’t it have been “compliant” for RID ? But if nobody’s looking what does RID even matter? Ugh… of course it worked have to be MY model involved here too. Glad only some material damages. 🙏
Yes. Although if anything is there to read it, it wouldn't lead back to someone instantly. There are other ways to trace back but more complex. Yes, thankful for no injuries and a relatively low damage situation.
@ indeed; the serial number in the battery bay of the drone looks pretty well intact. Should be a simple track back to whoever at least originally purchased it. …. Hopefully we find the drone wasn’t rented out by “Turo” to some ex-military… oh wait that’s too soon…. 🤦
Regardless of regs, laws etc ..cant people just use common sense!. Its utterly obvious fixedwing and helicopter would be flying around..so just dont fly !!
Excellent post, thank you! As a newbie, I have been amazed at how many people blatantly publish and boast about how they break the law! Geek Piracy is alive and well! I am very new to this but love the hobby and hope that it will last a long time. I live in a FRZ but have found a model aircraft club that is drone friendly and has their own ground just outside the FRZ, they have been very positive toward me and I hope to learn from them as some of them have many years of flying experience. As far as the plane is concerned - nothing a bit of duct tape can't fix after all it does hold the universe together! 😜
It hasnt made a hole but made a nasty dent next to that intake I take it back..looking at it again it has punched a hole through its just that it's a clean line on the top.
I work in the aviation industry and you are dead right, this damage is possible by a light drone. I have had to clean up after many bird strikes and even a small bird can cause d a large amount of damage, 250g is more than enough to punch through very thin skins.
Completely agree. Have been saying it for years. I cant understand the mentality of breaking rules but hear is the main part posting and encouraging others to alao Break the rules. Its madness. If i ever thought id possibly cossed a line id never post or encourage anyone to do the same. Its madness
If one was to say they didn't know there was a TFR in place one of the basic rules should have covered it and that is that you not allowed to fly over an Emergency Scene. I know the US and Au have this rule. and a fire scene is esay to spot. The smoke gives it away. So anyone who has done the Basic trust test in the US should know this.
@adcraziness1501 El Smeghead is one of our moderators and a friend. He was making a joke, that is got. No need to put knickers in a twist for this one.
The battery would have pushed the small parts left into the void. The force would have been substantial. The picture shows a battery, top case, couple of arms and motors. The drone was smashed apart. But the battery was key.
@19Neil67 also happy to send you the pictures. I think it is great when people want to dig in. I will actually put a link on the community tab to download them later.
Someone posted on TikTok a flight that started on the pavement, up through the fog and into the sun above so no VLOS. Did he cut it and paste some in? No idea, but he was very proud that his done went 1400 ft according to his comments. But they cant see how their actions will restrict ours. Some commenting that the rotor blades started to freeze this week, well my drone app said not suitable to fly, at -1c, others complaining that the drone they got for Christmas crashed into the curtains in the front room!!!
I get this all the while in certain Facebook groups when I tell people just how much damage can occur from a bird strike. I'm a licenced helicopter pilot and have seen first hand what a bird lighter than 249g can do to an aircraft. Thankfully I wasn't in the aircraft at the time but I saw the accident haooen and what damage occurred from a bird flying into an R44 helicopter whilst on takeoff. The cockpit was completely smashed to pieces and blood, feathers and parts of the bird were left all over the cockpit and the pilot in command. Thankfully it was a very highly experienced helicopter instructor flying at the time as it happened while they were in the avoid curve so just about one of the worst times for it to happen. People are always saying that drones will be blown away by the wash of the rotors but after what I've witnessed I can say wholeheartedly that is not going to be the issue every time. Far from it.
So was this collision over the fire ground, or over the lake where the fire plane was filling its tanks? Was the TFRZ over both areas or just the fire grounds? Also in any collision, especially when speed and force is involved there is transfer of materials from both elements. The wing hole was in a red painted part of the wing, but the mini 3 showed no red transfer? I am in no way endorsing this situation but there are a lot of questions that remain unanswered and until all the facts are established we shouldn't jump to conclusions. As pilots of uav's we should understand that the risks are real, and we are responsible for reducing the risks before we fly!
No conclusions jumped to here. In fact, we held reporting until more evidence came through. The parts were recovered from the plane wing. If you throw a Mini plastic body and even scrape it, there is very little transference. This isn't two cars hitting each other, so paint won't cross in same way. Yes on total TFR coverage. We also placed caveats about several parts of the story... The main fact here is that a drone and the aircraft came together, causing damage. It is the responsibility of the unmanned drone user to give way, even if there wasn't a TFR, which there is. Jumping to assumptions the other way is just the kind of confusion and excuse the idiots need.
@@Geeksvana Absolutely Shaun, it doesn't change the fact that a mid air collision has taken place. What we as an industry need to know are the true facts, so we can learn and implement better safety strategies going forward. I fear that in terms of aviation we the commercial pilots and operators, arent going to be treated in that professional way, especially in this instance.
As someone who has worked in aviation, has friends who fly commercially and in GA (and have flown a very small amount myself.) I find this sort of behaviour criminally stupid and thoroughly reprehensible. UAV operators are already largely seen by the larger public as an annoyance and in these populist times, politicians will see banning consumer drones as an easy option and vote winner. My solution would be to make all drone operators properly licensed with a minimum cofc (UK) being required to fly ANY drone this qualification could come with a code input that allows the use of the drone (without which the aircraft is inoperable) and obviously all drones should then carry transponder id. Heavy regulation? I don't think so esp if members of the public would KNOW that any drones they see are being flown by a qualified and identifiable person - they might even give us a break! It may also be the ONLY way this pastime can be enjoyed in the future.
@geeksvana this is a PR disaster and sets back our case against unfair over-regulation greatly. I join you in condemning this flight. I am very much in the XJET school of rules, in that they are broken and unworkable but flyers still need to be safe and responsible. I cleve to the principles that a pilot should not recklessly endanger people or property as set out in the Air Navigation Order 2016. This is a clear, simple and unambiguous principle. The flight that collided with the fire fighting plane clearly violated both of those principles. One possibly positive thing is that the incident clearly demonstrates that planes are quite capable of surviving impacts with drones, as evidenced by the pilots being oblivious to the collision and landing perfectly normally. However, this will be a challenging point to make as the focus will naturally be on the negative fact that the incident happened at all. Dammit!
So, I assume we hear more about this and catch the person. Otherwise, if there is no follow-up in the media., It may be just a claim without evidence like GPS data or more. If you watch enough cop movies, there should be a "picture of the crime" scene where the drone was inside the plane, and the officer removed the drone from the wing. Without it, any court system can argue it is plant evidence. Especially if the court fines and puts someone in jail.
The only evidence released at this stage is to assist the investigation. Not to appease the public. There will be a mountain of evidence bags and paperwork.
There could well be some. This in unlikely to be the only evidence bag of the items collected. It is a shame the items were not imaged before they went in the bag, as you would get more information. But then it is likely they didn't expect people to suspect the drone they just pulled out of a wing.
Interesting and measured video. Some thoughts: 1. If it proves to be what is surmised, it is extremely stupid, and really bad news. Might be better to make no assumptions about who this was and what they were up to until there is some information on that. It just stirs it all up, the oxygen of publicity. 2. I don't fly camera drones, or frankly know anything about them so may be quite wrong, but I was led to believe those small DJI drones transmitted remote ID broadcasts anyway, requirement or not, because the rules require transmission anyway if sub 250 but not purely recreational? In fact, I think the FAA implied that publishing stuff on youtube was an indication it would not be considered recreational. 3. Confess I'm surprised about how intact those parts are. I fly carbon fibre FPV quads, all sub 250, and on the (fortunately few) occasions where while racing I've flown straight into something solid like a branch, post or tree trunk at speeds of maybe 40 to 60mph, the damage has been huge, fragments only of the plastic bits. I'd have expected more fragmentation. 4. I don't expect the hobby of flying these things to be explicitly banned, but the risk is it will be regulated pretty much out of existence in the end for the hobbyist flyer, ie the person who flies for flyings sake, leaving only those who fly what will be mainly automatic camera platforms, which in the end literally will not allow you to do anything stupid. Which is ironic really, as it is probably some (very few I guess) of such users who cause most of the problems. 5. If there is a regulation divide, I would say it should be based on the level of auto-flying in the craft, not whether there's a camera on board, UK style. Because, as pointed out here, the easier they are to fly, the less thought and knowledge has to go into using it, and it is likely to attract those who haven't, and aren't interested in, putting the time in to undertand what these things are all about from a flying perspective. Why would they, mainly they probably just want the pictures. 6. There can be no good consequence to this, just hoping the knock on effects wont be too serious. But, if it results in, or is used as the excuse for more restrictions, it won't affect the activities of those who do these things, because they probably won't care or listen. Unless of course, increased regulation results eventually in only allowing craft that auto-fly and with all the rule restrictions built in.
Sorry, I strongly disagree on banning drone on wildfire escape situation Flying a Drone to check on escape route should be a part of a basic survival training one type of death in a Wildfire is people escape to a location that they cannot escape and get trap So checking you surrounding on the sky, look of danger at a safe space before you plan for an escape route should be a must skill we just need a technical solution when airspace is congested
I’m dismayed for the drone community that this has happened - and that’s from someone who is also a fixed wing light aircraft pilot. But I think we always knew it would happen sooner or later. Its not just in drone flying - all sorts of walks of life these days (just think escooters, ebikes, etc) there are plenty of people who are prepared to ignore the rules and the law, and do whatever the heck they feel like - self entitlement syndrome?). Most of the irresponsible individuals are of course only transitory to drone flying and will move on when they are bored, leaving those of us who are in it for the long term to deal with the the longer term ramifications and especially the additional restrictions that may result. But they’ll be replaced with others who have more money than sense. Ultimately I can’t see a feasible way forward other than restriction on sales to those who are able to demonstrate appropriate competency / licensing / qualification.
Hang on, if that’s the drone parts they recovered they would be much more smashed up than the image you show, especially if they made a hole in an aircraft wing, I’m a qualified design engineer and the in damaged main body moulding makes me think this evidence may be made up….the mini 3 s bodywork is incredibly fragile …🤔🤔🤔🤔
@@dogswhistlesharam9029 I completely agree 💯 Yes sure speed of the aircraft would make it more dangerous but something there doesn't seem right, sure the aircraft maybe thin skinned in that area but something just doesn't look right.🤔
I've made a similar observation. The drone, although shattered, looks almost complete. Even one the blades appears in the evidence photo. The pierced section of the aircraft wing is only slightly bent inwards leaving little room for the entire drone to enter the aircraft wing.
It amazes me how people want to find conspiracy everywhere. I fully respect all opinions but why would they do it? If anyone wanted to push the narrative against drones, they only need to visit any social media platform and see what people are happy to share about their drone use. Show that to public and politicians and the hobby would be done. So if that was the aim, they would have done that already. For a conspiracy to work you would need the aircrew, maintenance crew, local fire, regional and national fire, police, many gov departments and FBI to all be in collusion. That just wouldn't be something they could pull off, let alone bother doing for this topic. The leading edge of that aircraft is only aluminium alloy to keep weight down. It also hit between ribs where the wing is the most vulnerable. It couldn't hit a worse point in terms of damage potential. An inch one way or the other and the strike would never have been reported, because of course the crew onboard didn't hear or see anything during flight. Gonand throw a Mini 3 Pro battery at your car using the same force and check the damage. That would also be a car that is designed to withstand impact. Which of course an aircraft wing is not. There is plenty of wrongdoing out there by gov and leaders to put energy into. It amazes me people want conspiracy at every step. Even when they simply don't need to do it. Look at the hysteria over drones in New Jersey. If the gov wanted to ban drones today, the public would already back it as they do not understand it.
@Geeksvana Surly they could recover the SD card from the drone and show it's last few seconds of flight when it hit the aircraft? Makes more sense than showing parts of a Mini drone, that would be the proof 💯% I do feel the US DJI ban will happen under Trump or at least they will try to ban any Chinese made drones. Trump has announced just 2 days ago he is going to tell everyone what the drones were flying over New Jersey, watch this space, blame china I think...
I have left at least one Facebook drone page due to a lot of photos appearing of drones being above fog, therefore being out of VLOS. I voiced my concern about his being a commercial helicopter pilot and got nothing back but comments saying it was ok and when was an aircraft crash caused by a drone. I seems the drone operators that do things right will one day have their hobby destroyed by others who don't care, big shame.
One of the problems is not just stupidity it also whats classed as a toy and how it's classed as a toy to get round the regulations. The other weekend on tv was a shop tv program selling a drone, this drone had all the bells a whistles gps,follow me and all that, in fact it was like a dji drone 4k camera and all that. Now this was a £250+ drone and they stated it didn't need flyer or pilot id as it was a toy. And they got around it by 14+ being on the box, so it's classed as a toy. Now how many of unit's like this are in the public domain and being flown anywhere and everywhere? and not having to have a pilot or flyers id? Firstly all drones need to be registered fullstop regardless of being a toy which can reach the same heights as any other drone if carried on the wind....Secondly everyone should register at the point of sale. And leaflets with rules should be in the box with a warning about hefty fines if laws are not adhered too.
Geeksvana I whole heartedly agree with your stance. People who say this weight drone can not cause this damage are completely stupid and wrong and if they think that shouldn't be allowed to fly a drone. It's something that can be easily calculated. As an example - in the UK we have air rifles that are limited to 16 joules of energy and can cause significant damage / penetration to many materials and will break through 1/4" plywood for example. A .177 cal. pellet typically weighs 0.55 grams and travels at around 240m.sec = 16 joules of impact energy. Just the battery in a mini 4 pro weighs 77g ( I've just weighted one of mine. ) The Canadian super scooper has a max flying speed of 88m/s and scoops water at 44m/s. So assuming the flight air speed when it hit the drone was 66m/s Energy = 1/2 mass x velocity^2 gives the battery impact energy = 168 joules which is 10 times that of the pellet. Easily enough to go through the aluminium leading edge of that wing.
Fact it's a dji is totally irrelevant. The drone didn't fly itself. A person took the decision to fly, probably for no other reason than to see what was going on. Looking at the bag the back of the drone looks like it may have takken the imapct which means it was either hovering or was travelling slowly or maybe decending when the plane clolided with it. Reckless that what it is given the situation.
Possibly someone taking stupid risks to get some dramatic footage for social media, not a budget end mini either so spending money doesn't equate to socially responsible piloting
Using the same logic that incidents such as this would be akin to a car accident in the USA resulting in action against UK car drivers is insane. That is just bonkers. For a start Americans in general think they have the right to do what they want where they want with zero consequences. Their own lack of car and pedestrian safety shows they think it’s more important their citizens are allowed to kill themselves or others than be denied an action.
i see tonnes of drone videos of people flying irresponsibly...as soon as you say something they call you a drone cop or karen! i would fully support any system which made it mandatory to pass a test before you can fly...i have fixed wing A and a camera drone A...you need a license to drive a car so why not to fly a drone?
Hey Sean, how you doing? I could not agree with you more, its mainly why I am not that active anymore. in the community, too many people doing stupid things with drones, this includes within the community, and get very aggressive when its highlighted. This term drone police is just a bs response when they know full well they are in the wrong. You would not post a picture of you robbing a bank or committing another crime, so why do they post stupid stuff with a drones, it's dumb and selfish. As to this, in the middle of all this stuff going on in LA, do people really think they have time to commit a "conspiracy" and frame drone hobbyists, especially when there is more than enough evidence on social media platforms of people doing dumb s**t like this with drones. Seriously, anyone calling this a conspiracy, I would quest then competency to fly a drone. I do hope they track this moron down, should not be too hard, you have to register the drone with DJI, I bet they will force DJI to give it over especially with the threat of ban looming over them. either way people need to be called out on this or the hobbit will be gone and it will bar these selfish people including some UA-camrs that will be to blame.
@Geeksvana not sure the word idiots is that helpful maybe uneducated would be better despite agreeing personally with said word used. Looking at the image it looks like the battery was hit as opposed the gimbal end? Bottom line is simply don't fly where EMS are actively saving life, limb & property unless tasked to do so.
I don't think it needs to go that far. A more realistic drone community who call people out for posting content created with illegal flights would go further.
These days I fly in SIM or indoors, because of a few irresponsible pilots people start freaking out if they see one outdoors. Seems quite a convenient Incident though, certain parties want consumer drones gone so Amazon etc have free sky to play with, if this indeed was a moron flying irresponsibly I hope they track the serial number and the pilot gets a severe penalty. Why is it always DJI pilots pulling these stunts mostly. It's shocking how silly some people can be, thanks to this fool we will probably get even more restriction, the problem is good drone pilots (a very large percentage) fly safe and without infringement, sadly more and more people are buying one without researching the rules at all and don't care about it. 🤷🤷🤷🤷🤷🤷🤷
We don't get a clear enough view in terms of transference. Also, the plastic matt plastic is less likely to pick it up. There can be a dozen reasons. Unless you think someone planted the drone in the wing?
Excellent video Sean. The number of people you see in FB groups like Drones UK with a total disregard for the law is unbelievable. Then any comments against their moronic, petulant attitude is met with "drone police" remarks. Maybe the easy availability of drones for people with such low IQ, a blatant disregard for the regulations and lack of safety considerations for others needs to be looked at again. I remember when you couldn't buy a TV anywhere without having to give your details for TV Licensing. I think it's time all drones need to be registered and an official licensing system is brought in. I'd pay whatever that entails and I'd do whatever it takes to achieve the certification and it'll remove the vast majority of these people from the airspace. Those that don't comply? There needs to be real repercussions for their actions. I've been flying a relatively short time compared to the likes of you and certainly Graham but in that short time, I'm seeing an ever increasing number of these idiots hell bent on ruining it for everyone because they think they look big and clever. Good to see someone like you telling it how it is! 👍🏿👍🏿
Not much actual good factual information. For example: more than a paragraph about airplane speed, but not the speed. Or even the speed range. If you like to hear a guy talk and say nothing, this is your guy.
@dgeastaugh the drone should not be flown in that area and is therefore at fault. Also, unmanned is legally obliged to give way. There are incidents of strikes and near misses where the drone flight was legal. In those situations fault is not automatically with the drone. There is no one answer to everything. In this case the drone is the only one at fault.
Following the live show, I thought it might be useful to share a decent resolution version of the evidence bag image. You can zoom this copy a little more and see more details. Check out our post on the community tab to download it:
ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxwOMr-cBLcw5lkpLO2wFzPmdsCeztJcMf?si=04uaBLuNmjvSYNTH
Now if that battery caught fire in the wing where fuel is usually stored could have been really bad.
We shouldn't all have to suffer because of one idiot. When we here of a fatal accident cause by an idiot cyclist, we don't ban all cyclists. No legislation will stop idiots acting outside the law.
Agreed. Although it isn't one idiot. Take a look at any social media platform, and you will find multiple flights a day being posted that show either illegal or unsafe drone flight.
The cyclist example if a good one. With cycling, you have a pastime that has been with us for many generations. So people are used to it and accept the benefits automatically.
Drones are different. They are still a new technology, and as many focus on the camera and what it captures, the public are suspicious and even afraid of them. So we need to start self policing in a more effective way to show them we as a community care.
No, but through education, maybe we can reduce the number of idiots...
People saying a drone couldn't do this much damage are forgetting about is Kinetic Energy. If the plane is flying at 120 Knots (138MPH) and the drone is flying at 40 knots (46MPH) the combined speed is around 184 MPH. That is enough to cause huge amounts of damage, and easily enough to punch a hole through a wing.
We all saw what happened to the Space Shuttle when a chunk of foam hit the leading edge of the wing, as what happened in this case. The Aluminium of the wings on aircraft is very thin, and needs to be for lightness.
This is one of the reasons I have a huge dislike for these so called Audit channels on UA-cam who quite clearly, and constantly flout VLOS, and the comments section of these videos are all how wonderful a job they are doing to hold the police and security to account, yet break the law 95% of the time.
Exactly. It was a long time ago for most of us, but:
Force = Mass × Acceleration, and
Pressure = Force ÷ Area
You don't need a huge amount of force in the first place if the point of impact is small. If it was a metre wide RC wing with the same mass then perhaps it might not have gone through, but a quad is very dense. The mass is not spread out.
well, that piece of foam damaged the fragile thermal protection tile(s) and not the airframe of the shuttle... it was the heat from re-entry that caused the failure.
You have assumed that the drone was flying towards the plane. it could have been flying away, combined speed 92 MPH. or anything inbetween 92MPH to 184MPH. However I totally agree with you about kinetic energy
@@RecklessRowly even if the drone was 'hovering' the impact of the plane flying even at 'slow' speeds for a plane would have enough energy to cause that damage. Totally reckless to be flying a drone near the fires regardless.
I mean hell - think about how much damage just throwing a 250g weight at something can do!
"perhaps as a drone community it's time we stopped talking about how little damage a drone can cause a manned aircraft, and unite to start to condemn this type of flippant drone use". 100%.
Excellent point!
@@TakeOffTime yes, but not my words, I was quoting geeksvanna 🙂
Guess you want too get rid of all living birds also. Did about the same amount of damage as a bird strike. Your name here, is contrary to you dumb idea. Thousands of bird strikes, very few drone strikes. How about you go back to the meteor, you landed in. Restrict freedoms ? Stupid.
how do you condemn a fly away
@@tommcgrt66 a flyaway means you put the drone up near a tfr in a strong wind, still drone operators error, therefore still responsible. If dji flight log shows it wasn't due to wind and was an error in the drone, then operator can use that as a defence.
It's time for the drone rule-breakers to GROW UP. If they don't the hobby will be banned, because one care-less incident can cause hundreds of families to be bereaved of their loved ones.
I've worked in the aviation industry for more than 40 years, and I can assure all you doubters that a drone of this size can do damage like this. Birds, which are even lighter can do significant damage. And to those who point out that the drone parts are recognisable as mitigation .. Parts don't vapourise on impact. In bird strikes on A/C bits of the bird survive even fast jet impacts, so much so that the actual species can often still be identified. Feathers and all.
Also consider that the space Shuttle Columbia had it wing punctured on take off by a piece of insulating foam which ultimately lead to the loss off the A/C and it's crew.
Those that need a simple physics reminder, a baseball weighs 149g, thats 100g LIGHTER than a mini drone. Imagine that baseball impacting at 160mph, the approx speed of the airplane.....
Thank you, that is an excellent example.
Can you imagine if the battery caught fire!
No better place to hide your broken drone than inside the wing of an airplane.
Not sure it would be the drone case I recommend.
@@Geeksvana yeah, I agree, Geeks. Personally, I think it’s an attempt at claiming a drone incident. I’m a pilot, not buying the story nor the evidence.
The only thing that I think is a bit odd about the picture from the evidence bag is that the shattered drone appears to be almost complete. I am surprised to see, what appears to be at least one of the very delicate rotor blades separated but largely intact. Have these photos been independently verified.
I tend to agree. I cannot understand how the damage occurred. The front of the drone is damaged and the rear of the battery is damaged. The battery would seem to have exited the body from the underside, which would indicate that the initial impact rotated the drone. However, the damage does not support this.
Exactly
I have some thoughts you might want to consider; First, DJI has Geo Fencing that should have not allowed take off in the area, so I might assume it took off outside the area. Second, this drones wind resistance is lower then the CA winds.
Once it was up, the local winds were in control of the drone, not the pilot, this is still the pilots responsibility. A fully charged battery might last 20 minutes with the drone attempting a RTH, 20 minutes 70mph wind, this drone easily could have traveled 25 miles.
Those are a lot of if buts and maybes. The geofencing is easily set aside with a few clicks of a mouse.
You are suggesting an incredible set of steps to have taken place, when the more obvious answer is much simpler. But that is what investigations are for and as they have the battery serial, I expect the flight paths will be confirmed.
I fly recreationally in the US. My Atom SE is not a strong wind fighter, 10-20 mph is the limit if I want to keep the drone.
I don't think in it will work
With a disaster like this overly likely the mobile network will be damage, and mostlike people in the area did not will not receive a temperly air restrection, if you look at the current web, Elon is sending his starlink and cybertruck as a power unit in the area to provide temptery wifi station tell how bad the area is on network
26:26 fully agree this is the important point that so many seem to be missing, unless the responsible majority call out those who are willing to act recklessly, we will continue to be regulated to the point where hobby flying becomes impossible
It feels like a wave now it has been ignored for so long. Thanks for making the point.
@@Geeksvanajust finished watching to the end and seems you made the exact point, sorry for the duplicity but glad to be agreeing
@littlebluedinosaur it is needed at the moment, so thank you for reinforcing it.
@@littlebluedinosaur but how exactly are you going to call them out? They aren't listening to stuff like this, if they were they probably wouldn't be a problem in the first place.
@Nkkdxn45j question was to someone else but my answer would be that we need to call them out at source. On the posts. The 'community' need to stop shutting down so called 'drone police' if the complaint is reasonable.
If the hobby self policed more on social media, this would not be as accepted as it is.
Simple... u own a drone and fly it... be careful, thats basically all that is asked
I have owned a drone for low altitude flight... for 5 years or more... simply for photos that take out of the scene images that contain pylons, cables,.. just to get the perfect picture.
Who needs a 10x10 sq mile picture from a 20mpix camera?
As always, the good people will pay for the lesser respectful people.
Safe flight, and respectful flights to all... 🙏
This particular idiot thought it was more important to get great footage of the fires than letting the firefighters do their job.
Wise words. Question I ask myself: is dji nanny no flight zone is actually a good thing if it isn't complete with a live restrictions. Most new and naive people just assume that the dji drone wouldn't take off if it wasn't legal. I've heard it many times
What is on the sd card?
What is on the drones internal memory, flight data etc. Also remember with Dji drones in normal flight mode, all the information is hovered up and sent by internet link in the controller to Dji where it is stored against the drone and controllers registered serial number. This can and is recovered by Dji on a regular basis. Think what happens if you report an incident like a fly away. They pull up the flight data for analysis. With Dji, Big Brother is always watching. Last, always follow the rules. Even if you don't agree
To steal a phrase... And this is why we can't have nice things... I agree with your thoughts entirely, Sean.
Well said. Thank you!
In terms of blocking signals, that is of course possible, but is a serious thing to do. Bear in mind drones use publicly accessible bands, and there is therefore a risk of blocking devices that are quite legitimately active, possibly necessary. The reaction needs to match the threat.
100% agree. I would be concerned over the competence and organisation this would take in an already dangerous and reactive situation.
They having a big problem jamming drones in Ukraine
Imagine how nervous the guy must be🤔
Hey Tentoes! I did think the same. Must be an awkward weekend.
Any chance it could be a fiy-away, considering the wind conditions?
Wasn’t remote ID supposed to prevent this kind of thing?, complete fail.
People who think the cost wouldn't be that much obviously have absolutely no idea of the cost of items in aviation.
Not only is there the cost of the part but then there's the cost for the engineers (they don't come cheap) and in a lot of cases there are then the costs due to recertification and downtime due to that.
The one major cost that people are missing here though is the cost to life and property.
With that aircraft out of service for any amount of time that could be a life on the ground lost or buildings burning down that didn't need to.
Those kinds of costs are unimaginable and impossible to put a figure on.
Hi Sean
It’s easy. Don’t fly your drone. The situation is dire. Don’t risk the safety of emergency services. These idiots should face the consequences of their stupidity. No excuses. Don’t launch your drone. These amazing emergency personnel have enough to deal with. They shouldn’t have to dodge drones.
I wonder if there is an SD card in it , would be interesting to look at the footage .
Was the drone taking video / photos, have the videos / photos been released?
Hey! Looking the remaining parts, it doesn't look like any of the body of the drone survived. Not within the pic we have. There is a board of some type, but the not the right one.
If there is footage, it would likely be part of the investigation they don't want to share at the moment.
@@Geeksvana If the photo is genuine the remaining parts must have survived and also be inside the aircraft wing with the rest of drone. Those parts might be minuscule but they would still be detectable by investigators, including an SD card, Now I have no problem accepting a drone might have caused the damage, but the picture of the evidence bag looks very suspicious. Has this photo been independently verified?
The photo is directly from FBI to press office. There is more than one evidence bag in the report. This has been shown to public in response to requests for evidence.
The rest of the drone is more likely to be in tiny bits across Los Angeles. The battery is the lump that likely pushed this through along with the parts ahead of it.
There will be a good amount of evidence they will not release at this stage of investigation.
Great Video Sean, with you all the way and your tone is justified. Thanks also for bringing up aeromodellers whos hobby is being impacted, even threatened by irrisponsible drone use. I fly models and light aircraft and see the issue from both sides. Nothing against drones, they are a wonderful tool and a great hobby. Hoping that there is an element of a fad with drones and interest will die down soon leaving drones to the more serious hobby and professional pilot/operators. Like Segways and 3D TV
Just as a point,
I was a helicopter engineer, and ive scrapped rotor blade due to contact with branches!!
I'm sorry but this flight was NOTHING to do with regulations. Irresponsible people don't care what those are but the rules also created this drone, namely a small brick (battery) surrounded by the lightest, flimsiest plastic they can find. Even a mini 2 has a battery compartment and more integrity. A 300gm mini 3 Pro with sturdier arms, a better protected battery and perhaps prop guards all softening the impact would be safer to both humans and aircraft.
I have given up flying because of my frustration that worldwide regulations designed to pander to those that don't know and show the illusion of increased safety. I'm not against rules, registrations etc but they must be relevant and increase actual safety, not just the illusion of safety ..... until something like this happens. The stronger the numerous pointless regs are, the more likely things like this happen. The harder it is to comply, the more likely this sort of thing is.
I agree it has nothing to do with regulations. No written law would stop the worst offenders of any crime.
Sadly, tougher regulations are what we are likely to get. We need to start as a community calling out the blatant flights posted on social media and show that we can self police.
The straw that breaks the camels back, don’t be that operator that ruins it for everyone
Well said Rob. Thank you.
The talks of banning drones in America have been brought up against and they still trying to put the ban in. This incident definitely ain't going to help drone flyers in America 😢
@@garylinnane917 do you think they will ban drones whilst still allowing everyone to carry a loaded gun? Or after they ban guns?
Lovely little rant that Sean, I was getting riled up with you all along the video
Thanks, Dan. It feels like a benchmark moment in drones.
I'm surprised that given the scale of the fires and the proliferation of consumer drones (and the minority of pilots who are irresponsible and flout drone laws and rules), that counter-drone tech wasn't deployed in The affected areas sooner to protect emergency workers.
You can understand curiosity and a desire to capture a major disaster from the air, but ignoring a TFR and doing so is just stupid and reckless.
It's surprising how their is no damage to the top part of the shell of the drone and it's like they have made sure it had to be a dji, to put extra pressure on the banning of drones. The pilot of that drone has already been found and awaiting what he is to be charged for 😢
Hey Gary! I don't think it was needed. Even a motor or a single part could have been traced back. This was bound to happen with the sheer amount of people flying drones in those TFRs recently.
That wing can't be more than 9 inches thick, the chances of the drone hitting the plane wing smack in the centre of the leading edge so it doesn't deflect the force of the drone hit must be millions to one, unlucky or what? Any motorcyclist that's been hit in the face by a small insect at 50 + mph can tell you how much force is exserted when an object hits anything at speed.
The odds are crazy aren't they? It has to be a perfect storm. I certainly hope to never see it again!
Well Said Sean.....We will see far more tighening up thanks to these incidents by those chasing likes putting others at risk.
Thank you, sir. Appreciate the comment.
To me that “debris” does not look right for something that punctured a wing, it’s not broken enough??? Hmmmm a plant?
Why would they plant it? There isn't an outcome to justify the cover-up. The debris looks right to punch a 6x3 hole in metal that is only about twice as thick as a coke can. Remember it hit the section of wing without anything behind the sheet metal between ribs.
@ to me I would have expected much more damage to the drone plastic body etc, also interesting that all parts were recovered? Considering the current anti DJI rhetoric in the USA? Conspiracy theory maybe… but really that drone should have more missing parts and be more broken IMO. Cheers.
9:20 but doesn’t the Mini 3 Pro always broadcast RID? So wouldn’t it have been “compliant” for RID ? But if nobody’s looking what does RID even matter?
Ugh… of course it worked have to be MY model involved here too. Glad only some material damages. 🙏
Yes. Although if anything is there to read it, it wouldn't lead back to someone instantly. There are other ways to trace back but more complex.
Yes, thankful for no injuries and a relatively low damage situation.
@ indeed; the serial number in the battery bay of the drone looks pretty well intact. Should be a simple track back to whoever at least originally purchased it. ….
Hopefully we find the drone wasn’t rented out by “Turo” to some ex-military… oh wait that’s too soon…. 🤦
Regardless of regs, laws etc ..cant people just use common sense!.
Its utterly obvious fixedwing and helicopter would be flying around..so just dont fly !!
Thanks Sean
Thank you!
@geeksvana Sorry couldn't join during live but watching now, agree with everything you're saying in the video.
Thanks for catching the replay!
Excellent post, thank you! As a newbie, I have been amazed at how many people blatantly publish and boast about how they break the law! Geek Piracy is alive and well! I am very new to this but love the hobby and hope that it will last a long time. I live in a FRZ but have found a model aircraft club that is drone friendly and has their own ground just outside the FRZ, they have been very positive toward me and I hope to learn from them as some of them have many years of flying experience. As far as the plane is concerned - nothing a bit of duct tape can't fix after all it does hold the universe together! 😜
It hasnt made a hole but made a nasty dent next to that intake I take it back..looking at it again it has punched a hole through its just that it's a clean line on the top.
Hey Pete! I presume that's a little humour? There isn't an intake there. Well there wasn't at least...
The skin will only be 24gauge Aluminium Alloy so pretty thin
I work in the aviation industry and you are dead right, this damage is possible by a light drone. I have had to clean up after many bird strikes and even a small bird can cause d a large amount of damage, 250g is more than enough to punch through very thin skins.
Completely agree. Have been saying it for years. I cant understand the mentality of breaking rules but hear is the main part posting and encouraging others to alao Break the rules. Its madness. If i ever thought id possibly cossed a line id never post or encourage anyone to do the same. Its madness
If one was to say they didn't know there was a TFR in place one of the basic rules should have covered it and that is that you not allowed to fly over an Emergency Scene. I know the US and Au have this rule. and a fire scene is esay to spot. The smoke gives it away. So anyone who has done the Basic trust test in the US should know this.
TFR or not, you have to stay away from any emergency response, they don't do TFRs for Medicvac operations
The pilot of the drone apparently looking at 185k fine and endangerment to life charge 😮
Feds just need to arrest anyone selling a Mini 3 Pro controller on its own.
I would actually feel sorry for anyone doing that legitimately. I imagine the controller is possibly at the bottom of the sea 😂
@adcraziness1501 El Smeghead is one of our moderators and a friend. He was making a joke, that is got. No need to put knickers in a twist for this one.
@@Geeksvana Maybe I should've added a "🤣" emoji for the easy-of-triggered?
👀
This isn't an airport. You don't need to announce your departure...
Surely the drone would be in many pieces if it’d hit an airplane, that’s not many pieces I’ve seen mini 3 s in pieces from a bird strike 🤷🏽♂️
The battery would have pushed the small parts left into the void. The force would have been substantial.
The picture shows a battery, top case, couple of arms and motors. The drone was smashed apart. But the battery was key.
@ I’ll watch it a bigger screen later and pause when we see the drone, there was a test done years ago with phantom 3 that’s pretty interesting
@19Neil67 also happy to send you the pictures. I think it is great when people want to dig in. I will actually put a link on the community tab to download them later.
@@Geeksvana thank you that’ll be great, I’ll email you
@@GeeksvanaI’ve sent you an email from your website
Someone posted on TikTok a flight that started on the pavement, up through the fog and into the sun above so no VLOS. Did he cut it and paste some in? No idea, but he was very proud that his done went 1400 ft according to his comments. But they cant see how their actions will restrict ours. Some commenting that the rotor blades started to freeze this week, well my drone app said not suitable to fly, at -1c, others complaining that the drone they got for Christmas crashed into the curtains in the front room!!!
I get this all the while in certain Facebook groups when I tell people just how much damage can occur from a bird strike.
I'm a licenced helicopter pilot and have seen first hand what a bird lighter than 249g can do to an aircraft.
Thankfully I wasn't in the aircraft at the time but I saw the accident haooen and what damage occurred from a bird flying into an R44 helicopter whilst on takeoff.
The cockpit was completely smashed to pieces and blood, feathers and parts of the bird were left all over the cockpit and the pilot in command.
Thankfully it was a very highly experienced helicopter instructor flying at the time as it happened while they were in the avoid curve so just about one of the worst times for it to happen.
People are always saying that drones will be blown away by the wash of the rotors but after what I've witnessed I can say wholeheartedly that is not going to be the issue every time. Far from it.
So was this collision over the fire ground, or over the lake where the fire plane was filling its tanks? Was the TFRZ over both areas or just the fire grounds? Also in any collision, especially when speed and force is involved there is transfer of materials from both elements. The wing hole was in a red painted part of the wing, but the mini 3 showed no red transfer?
I am in no way endorsing this situation but there are a lot of questions that remain unanswered and until all the facts are established we shouldn't jump to conclusions. As pilots of uav's we should understand that the risks are real, and we are responsible for reducing the risks before we fly!
No conclusions jumped to here. In fact, we held reporting until more evidence came through. The parts were recovered from the plane wing. If you throw a Mini plastic body and even scrape it, there is very little transference. This isn't two cars hitting each other, so paint won't cross in same way.
Yes on total TFR coverage.
We also placed caveats about several parts of the story...
The main fact here is that a drone and the aircraft came together, causing damage. It is the responsibility of the unmanned drone user to give way, even if there wasn't a TFR, which there is.
Jumping to assumptions the other way is just the kind of confusion and excuse the idiots need.
@@Geeksvana Absolutely Shaun, it doesn't change the fact that a mid air collision has taken place. What we as an industry need to know are the true facts, so we can learn and implement better safety strategies going forward. I fear that in terms of aviation we the commercial pilots and operators, arent going to be treated in that professional way, especially in this instance.
249g might sound light but goliath was killed by a stone at speed!!
Newtons laws of motion and energy are a better example.
@rogerhearn5243 don't even know why that one popped in my head. I'm not religious lol
As someone who has worked in aviation, has friends who fly commercially and in GA (and have flown a very small amount myself.) I find this sort of behaviour criminally stupid and thoroughly reprehensible. UAV operators are already largely seen by the larger public as an annoyance and in these populist times, politicians will see banning consumer drones as an easy option and vote winner.
My solution would be to make all drone operators properly licensed with a minimum cofc (UK) being required to fly ANY drone this qualification could come with a code input that allows the use of the drone (without which the aircraft is inoperable) and obviously all drones should then carry transponder id.
Heavy regulation? I don't think so esp if members of the public would KNOW that any drones they see are being flown by a qualified and identifiable person - they might even give us a break!
It may also be the ONLY way this pastime can be enjoyed in the future.
So true sean, there are so many idiots who will utterly wreck for law abiding flyers who respect the regs
Flying low and fly safe FPV❤❤❤
Should be finger prints if CSI Miami TAUGHT me anything and give it time the idiot that was flying it will post the video on Something
I feel the need to stand up dramatically and put sunglasses on... (I don't look as cool, though).
Should only sell drones to people with licences check they have taken some sort of care before purchase
@geeksvana this is a PR disaster and sets back our case against unfair over-regulation greatly. I join you in condemning this flight. I am very much in the XJET school of rules, in that they are broken and unworkable but flyers still need to be safe and responsible. I cleve to the principles that a pilot should not recklessly endanger people or property as set out in the Air Navigation Order 2016. This is a clear, simple and unambiguous principle. The flight that collided with the fire fighting plane clearly violated both of those principles. One possibly positive thing is that the incident clearly demonstrates that planes are quite capable of surviving impacts with drones, as evidenced by the pilots being oblivious to the collision and landing perfectly normally. However, this will be a challenging point to make as the focus will naturally be on the negative fact that the incident happened at all. Dammit!
So, I assume we hear more about this and catch the person. Otherwise, if there is no follow-up in the media., It may be just a claim without evidence like GPS data or more. If you watch enough cop movies, there should be a "picture of the crime" scene where the drone was inside the plane, and the officer removed the drone from the wing. Without it, any court system can argue it is plant evidence. Especially if the court fines and puts someone in jail.
The only evidence released at this stage is to assist the investigation. Not to appease the public. There will be a mountain of evidence bags and paperwork.
The "evidence bag" is interesting..but wouldn't there be some RED scuff marks somewhere on the plastics?
There could well be some. This in unlikely to be the only evidence bag of the items collected. It is a shame the items were not imaged before they went in the bag, as you would get more information. But then it is likely they didn't expect people to suspect the drone they just pulled out of a wing.
Thx Shaun.
True!.. yes no doubt should be left in anyone's mind,particularly OUR community. 😉
How much more destruction from the fire will happen because the plane is out of service during a critical time.
Interesting and measured video. Some thoughts:
1. If it proves to be what is surmised, it is extremely stupid, and really bad news. Might be better to make no assumptions about who this was and what they were up to until there is some information on that. It just stirs it all up, the oxygen of publicity.
2. I don't fly camera drones, or frankly know anything about them so may be quite wrong, but I was led to believe those small DJI drones transmitted remote ID broadcasts anyway, requirement or not, because the rules require transmission anyway if sub 250 but not purely recreational? In fact, I think the FAA implied that publishing stuff on youtube was an indication it would not be considered recreational.
3. Confess I'm surprised about how intact those parts are. I fly carbon fibre FPV quads, all sub 250, and on the (fortunately few) occasions where while racing I've flown straight into something solid like a branch, post or tree trunk at speeds of maybe 40 to 60mph, the damage has been huge, fragments only of the plastic bits. I'd have expected more fragmentation.
4. I don't expect the hobby of flying these things to be explicitly banned, but the risk is it will be regulated pretty much out of existence in the end for the hobbyist flyer, ie the person who flies for flyings sake, leaving only those who fly what will be mainly automatic camera platforms, which in the end literally will not allow you to do anything stupid. Which is ironic really, as it is probably some (very few I guess) of such users who cause most of the problems.
5. If there is a regulation divide, I would say it should be based on the level of auto-flying in the craft, not whether there's a camera on board, UK style. Because, as pointed out here, the easier they are to fly, the less thought and knowledge has to go into using it, and it is likely to attract those who haven't, and aren't interested in, putting the time in to undertand what these things are all about from a flying perspective. Why would they, mainly they probably just want the pictures.
6. There can be no good consequence to this, just hoping the knock on effects wont be too serious. But, if it results in, or is used as the excuse for more restrictions, it won't affect the activities of those who do these things, because they probably won't care or listen. Unless of course, increased regulation results eventually in only allowing craft that auto-fly and with all the rule restrictions built in.
Sorry, I strongly disagree on banning drone on wildfire escape situation
Flying a Drone to check on escape route should be a part of a basic survival training
one type of death in a Wildfire is people escape to a location that they cannot escape and get trap
So checking you surrounding on the sky, look of danger at a safe space before you plan for an escape route should be a must skill
we just need a technical solution when airspace is congested
I’m dismayed for the drone community that this has happened - and that’s from someone who is also a fixed wing light aircraft pilot. But I think we always knew it would happen sooner or later. Its not just in drone flying - all sorts of walks of life these days (just think escooters, ebikes, etc) there are plenty of people who are prepared to ignore the rules and the law, and do whatever the heck they feel like - self entitlement syndrome?). Most of the irresponsible individuals are of course only transitory to drone flying and will move on when they are bored, leaving those of us who are in it for the long term to deal with the the longer term ramifications and especially the additional restrictions that may result. But they’ll be replaced with others who have more money than sense. Ultimately I can’t see a feasible way forward other than restriction on sales to those who are able to demonstrate appropriate competency / licensing / qualification.
thanks
Hang on, if that’s the drone parts they recovered they would be much more smashed up than the image you show, especially if they made a hole in an aircraft wing, I’m a qualified design engineer and the in damaged main body moulding makes me think this evidence may be made up….the mini 3 s bodywork is incredibly fragile …🤔🤔🤔🤔
@@dogswhistlesharam9029 I completely agree 💯 Yes sure speed of the aircraft would make it more dangerous but something there doesn't seem right, sure the aircraft maybe thin skinned in that area but something just doesn't look right.🤔
I've made a similar observation. The drone, although shattered, looks almost complete. Even one the blades appears in the evidence photo. The pierced section of the aircraft wing is only slightly bent inwards leaving little room for the entire drone to enter the aircraft wing.
I’m wondering if it was a drone, but not necessarily the one they are showing as the one that was envolved
It amazes me how people want to find conspiracy everywhere. I fully respect all opinions but why would they do it? If anyone wanted to push the narrative against drones, they only need to visit any social media platform and see what people are happy to share about their drone use. Show that to public and politicians and the hobby would be done. So if that was the aim, they would have done that already.
For a conspiracy to work you would need the aircrew, maintenance crew, local fire, regional and national fire, police, many gov departments and FBI to all be in collusion. That just wouldn't be something they could pull off, let alone bother doing for this topic.
The leading edge of that aircraft is only aluminium alloy to keep weight down. It also hit between ribs where the wing is the most vulnerable. It couldn't hit a worse point in terms of damage potential. An inch one way or the other and the strike would never have been reported, because of course the crew onboard didn't hear or see anything during flight.
Gonand throw a Mini 3 Pro battery at your car using the same force and check the damage. That would also be a car that is designed to withstand impact. Which of course an aircraft wing is not.
There is plenty of wrongdoing out there by gov and leaders to put energy into. It amazes me people want conspiracy at every step. Even when they simply don't need to do it. Look at the hysteria over drones in New Jersey. If the gov wanted to ban drones today, the public would already back it as they do not understand it.
@Geeksvana Surly they could recover the SD card from the drone and show it's last few seconds of flight when it hit the aircraft? Makes more sense than showing parts of a Mini drone, that would be the proof 💯% I do feel the US DJI ban will happen under Trump or at least they will try to ban any Chinese made drones. Trump has announced just 2 days ago he is going to tell everyone what the drones were flying over New Jersey, watch this space, blame china I think...
I have left at least one Facebook drone page due to a lot of photos appearing of drones being above fog, therefore being out of VLOS. I voiced my concern about his being a commercial helicopter pilot and got nothing back but comments saying it was ok and when was an aircraft crash caused by a drone. I seems the drone operators that do things right will one day have their hobby destroyed by others who don't care, big shame.
welcome to america
Imagine what a Great Black seagull could do at a weight of around 1.83kg! A Golden Eagle between 2.8 to 6.7 kg, depending on sex. Fly responsibly!
One of the problems is not just stupidity it also whats classed as a toy and how it's classed as a toy to get round the regulations. The other weekend on tv was a shop tv program selling a drone, this drone had all the bells a whistles gps,follow me and all that, in fact it was like a dji drone 4k camera and all that. Now this was a £250+ drone and they stated it didn't need flyer or pilot id as it was a toy. And they got around it by 14+ being on the box, so it's classed as a toy. Now how many of unit's like this are in the public domain and being flown anywhere and everywhere? and not having to have a pilot or flyers id? Firstly all drones need to be registered fullstop regardless of being a toy which can reach the same heights as any other drone if carried on the wind....Secondly everyone should register at the point of sale. And leaflets with rules should be in the box with a warning about hefty fines if laws are not adhered too.
Duh. CAA UK report: 4 reported bird strikes PER DAY in 2022....per day. So...planes need to expect to hit heavy stuff.
Correct. Not batteries though. A bird does not have a hard battery at the centre.
Geeksvana I whole heartedly agree with your stance. People who say this weight drone can not cause this damage are completely stupid and wrong and if they think that shouldn't be allowed to fly a drone. It's something that can be easily calculated. As an example - in the UK we have air rifles that are limited to 16 joules of energy and can cause significant damage / penetration to many materials and will break through 1/4" plywood for example. A .177 cal. pellet typically weighs 0.55 grams and travels at around 240m.sec = 16 joules of impact energy. Just the battery in a mini 4 pro weighs 77g ( I've just weighted one of mine. ) The Canadian super scooper has a max flying speed of 88m/s and scoops water at 44m/s. So assuming the flight air speed when it hit the drone was 66m/s Energy = 1/2 mass x velocity^2 gives the battery impact energy = 168 joules which is 10 times that of the pellet. Easily enough to go through the aluminium leading edge of that wing.
Let face it if a bird hitting a jet engine comressor fan, will wipe out blades then a battery will destroy anything!
Does the type of drone really matter??? No. It’s a plane damaging item that shouldn’t be there. Crikey.
Fact it's a dji is totally irrelevant. The drone didn't fly itself. A person took the decision to fly, probably for no other reason than to see what was going on. Looking at the bag the back of the drone looks like it may have takken the imapct which means it was either hovering or was travelling slowly or maybe decending when the plane clolided with it. Reckless that what it is given the situation.
Possibly someone taking stupid risks to get some dramatic footage for social media, not a budget end mini either so spending money doesn't equate to socially responsible piloting
kababfpv was flying hes fpv drone over all the burned out areas
I did see the flight. No idea if it was in TFR or even before it, etc.
Using the same logic that incidents such as this would be akin to a car accident in the USA resulting in action against UK car drivers is insane. That is just bonkers. For a start Americans in general think they have the right to do what they want where they want with zero consequences. Their own lack of car and pedestrian safety shows they think it’s more important their citizens are allowed to kill themselves or others than be denied an action.
Its not for fellow.drone.pilots to police.this.sorry we.have no power leave it to the.experts
I hope they ask for help from DJI and they tell them to stick that drone......
Do you? You honestly hope that a criminal investigation is hindered over politics? That is not the line I would draw, but each to their own.
i see tonnes of drone videos of people flying irresponsibly...as soon as you say something they call you a drone cop or karen! i would fully support any system which made it mandatory to pass a test before you can fly...i have fixed wing A and a camera drone A...you need a license to drive a car so why not to fly a drone?
Hey Sean, how you doing? I could not agree with you more, its mainly why I am not that active anymore. in the community, too many people doing stupid things with drones, this includes within the community, and get very aggressive when its highlighted. This term drone police is just a bs response when they know full well they are in the wrong. You would not post a picture of you robbing a bank or committing another crime, so why do they post stupid stuff with a drones, it's dumb and selfish. As to this, in the middle of all this stuff going on in LA, do people really think they have time to commit a "conspiracy" and frame drone hobbyists, especially when there is more than enough evidence on social media platforms of people doing dumb s**t like this with drones. Seriously, anyone calling this a conspiracy, I would quest then competency to fly a drone. I do hope they track this moron down, should not be too hard, you have to register the drone with DJI, I bet they will force DJI to give it over especially with the threat of ban looming over them. either way people need to be called out on this or the hobbit will be gone and it will bar these selfish people including some UA-camrs that will be to blame.
@Geeksvana not sure the word idiots is that helpful maybe uneducated would be better despite agreeing personally with said word used. Looking at the image it looks like the battery was hit as opposed the gimbal end? Bottom line is simply don't fly where EMS are actively saving life, limb & property unless tasked to do so.
I would be ok with laws changing that required ALL pilots to fly with a Part 107 rather than change laws that affect responsible pilots
I don't think it needs to go that far. A more realistic drone community who call people out for posting content created with illegal flights would go further.
These days I fly in SIM or indoors, because of a few irresponsible pilots people start freaking out if they see one outdoors.
Seems quite a convenient Incident though, certain parties want consumer drones gone so Amazon etc have free sky to play with, if this indeed was a moron flying irresponsibly I hope they track the serial number and the pilot gets a severe penalty.
Why is it always DJI pilots pulling these stunts mostly.
It's shocking how silly some people can be, thanks to this fool we will probably get even more restriction, the problem is good drone pilots (a very large percentage) fly safe and without infringement, sadly more and more people are buying one without researching the rules at all and don't care about it.
🤷🤷🤷🤷🤷🤷🤷
if most of this is for like or clicks then defunded and instant -100000 likes remove the cause of the flights
I call BS on it being the drone in the bag. Not a speck of red paint on it anywhere 🤷🏼♂️
We don't get a clear enough view in terms of transference. Also, the plastic matt plastic is less likely to pick it up. There can be a dozen reasons.
Unless you think someone planted the drone in the wing?
DJI users are going to ruin the Hobby💚 fpv racing drone
Dum dum drone flyer don't know the rules ..
obstacle avoidance was in that bag of fake bits
Excellent video Sean. The number of people you see in FB groups like Drones UK with a total disregard for the law is unbelievable.
Then any comments against their moronic, petulant attitude is met with "drone police" remarks.
Maybe the easy availability of drones for people with such low IQ, a blatant disregard for the regulations and lack of safety considerations for others needs to be looked at again.
I remember when you couldn't buy a TV anywhere without having to give your details for TV Licensing. I think it's time all drones need to be registered and an official licensing system is brought in. I'd pay whatever that entails and I'd do whatever it takes to achieve the certification and it'll remove the vast majority of these people from the airspace.
Those that don't comply? There needs to be real repercussions for their actions.
I've been flying a relatively short time compared to the likes of you and certainly Graham but in that short time, I'm seeing an ever increasing number of these idiots hell bent on ruining it for everyone because they think they look big and clever.
Good to see someone like you telling it how it is! 👍🏿👍🏿
like guns you should have a licence to fly and buy
Not much actual good factual information. For example: more than a paragraph about airplane speed, but not the speed. Or even the speed range. If you like to hear a guy talk and say nothing, this is your guy.
Much like your comment.
Bless you. Thanks for the empty comment 🙂
Well lets just say the plane was flying faster then you can run, what kind of nonsense is you comment?
in theory we could say that if a car hits a tree the tree is getting the blame on the evidence so far
should be be asking why the tree was there?
@dgeastaugh the drone should not be flown in that area and is therefore at fault. Also, unmanned is legally obliged to give way.
There are incidents of strikes and near misses where the drone flight was legal. In those situations fault is not automatically with the drone.
There is no one answer to everything. In this case the drone is the only one at fault.