How I Found A Real Life Infinite Money Glitch
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- Опубліковано 17 січ 2025
- To download the report mentioned in the video, follow this link: kenmcelroy.com...
In this video, Ken McElroy explains the 'Infinite Return Strategy' using a 265-unit project from his company, MC Companies, as a real-life case study. He details the process of enhancing value through strategic renovations and refinancing. He explains how this approach can apply to any business or real estate venture, resulting in significant, tax-free profits and cash flow improvements.
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ABOUT KEN:
Ken is the author of the bestselling books The ABC’s of Real Estate Investing, The Advanced Guide to Real Estate Investing, The ABC’s of Property Management, and has an upcoming book: "ABCs of Buying Rental Property: How You Can Achieve Financial Freedom in Five Years." Ken is a Rich Dad Advisor.
Ken offers a wealth of personal experiences, practical advice, success stories, and even some informative setbacks, all presented here to educate and inspire. Whether you’re a new or seasoned investor, the information and resources on this channel will set you on a path where you and your investments can thrive.
Ken's company: mccompanies.com/
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#kenmcelroy #realestate #realestateinvesting #InfiniteReturn #InvestmentStrategy #RealEstate #ValueAdd #Refinancing #CashFlow #Depreciation #TaxBenefits #Equity #NetOperatingIncome #Profit #BusinessScaling #CapitalizationRates #InterestRates #MarketTrends #AssetValueIncrease #DebtManagement #FinancialGrowth #RentalMarket #ValueCreation
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It would really help us and encourage Ken to create more videos like this!
Thanks, guys!
Where is the link to the free report Ken?
Thank you: First, let me say....Ken is great because his podcast do not feel like its a funnel to a sale he's trying to make. Eventually, someone will convince him to push people to a funnel, and we'll look for the next seemingly genuine (i.e., non-used-car sales) expert. Ken also shows his back of the envelope calculations in plain sight, which shows his confidence and transparency.
Now on to my question about saying "":
I do not understand why Ken says... in Yr6, when you use the $25M loan to repay the $20M debt from Yr.3, the remaining $5M can be distributed to the investors as . How can that be pure profit when everyone is on the hook for the $5M debt? What is a pandemic tanks the cash flow, won't the banks come after their $5M from the investors? If so, then it does not seem like it's "pure profit".
It's actually just surplus money (e.g., capital) available to investors because it's not needed to pay for the property since it is cash flowing.
Why does real estate generally appreciate in value if the building is getting older?
Why don't cars and trucks do the same thing?
Its not considered pure profit because your not taxed on the money. Profit from a business is taxable, when using a cash-out refi you don't have to pay taxes on it. Just like if you cash out refinance your personal home, say they give you 100k, you don't report that as income to the IRS instead you use it like money in the bank. Of course that increases expenses but given it cash flows positive before, it just reduces the amount of cash flow@@DCC72
@@DCC72I wondered the same, but I think the increased debt is amply serviced by the rents in perpetuity. They don’t distribute the entire equity increase and keep a cushion for market swings.
Ken McElroy is a master teacher!
I've done this exact same thing just on a much smaller scale I borrowed money purchase property fixed it up refi it back out using none of your own money now I have all my money back plus properties cash flow and ready to buy some more this really does work just take your time and find the right deals
But what happens if/when you sell after several years of taking depreciation. Wouldn't the outstanding mortgage and capital gains from a much lower cost basis potentially put you into a negative situation?
I guess if you're cash-flow positive, you just hold them forever.
@eddiemalvin I'm just learning about this stuff... but maybe.. that is when you incorporate a 1031 exchange. I think that's what it is called.
Who willl lend you the money that thw bank dont cpver and what percent gain will they get ? Also what is the risk onvolved into this ? Thank you
@@Johndoe-qn9jr Hard money lender or private lender.
@@TheMrPorter what intrest rste do the normaly get and where to find them ? Thank you
My dad used to pay all utilities on his 16 unit. We rewired the place all electric deleted the gas and separated water/sewer/trash...slapped on paint, carpet and repaved the parking lot. Tenants saw a $200-$400/mo increase in costs for utilities alone with no increase in rent. As tenants turned over we deleted the stoves and fridges. We get a waaay better tenant. Out of 100 rentals we had only 2 withhold rent during koovid. They got evicted after the moratorium but later came back because they couldn't find any place to stay. They offered paying the arrears but we told them too stick it. One sued me for discrimination with Calif housing board. Board wanted me to pay a fine to the Board to "settle" (tenant gets nothing). Woman told me it was cheaper to pay than drag it out. I told her I rather pay for "good" than reward evil. Tenant dropped complaint but Board continued. It cost me $80k for attorney to have case dropped.
Jeez
@@RealLifeFinance What's funny is that the trash company wouldn't give us one dumpster with daily service. Instead, they brought out green/brown/blue mini bins for each unit (grass/trash/recyclable). 48 bins on the street on trash day.... plus each tenant has to keep the bins inside on non service days. No tenant generates green because I do the landscaping.
Wow, that's disgusting.
There are about 48 states that will treat you better than that one does. 👊😎
It is your property, you can discriminate as much as you want imho
He just doesn't say how much was spent to renovate every single unit in order to raise rent $150. That's a key part of the equation.
Most likely done through the cashflow it generated.
Indeed.
I thought he said he didn't need to do much to the property.
Reinvesting his cashflow thus reducing or negating profit entirely(for the first 3 yrs). The other rent increases were inflationary.
Also that $150 was 57% increase which most market couldn't sustain. They could do it one time, but that's it, they cant raise it again and again because they soon run out of renters.
And for a second lets focus on the fact that they increased the rent with 115% in 6 years... That's insane and not a sustainable model at all.
Yep! Never sell the property, just keep 1031 exchanging the properties to avoid capital gains tax on the profit and then it goes to your kids at the fair value (bump up in basis) at the time you die so they never pay taxes on the gain either. Win win win
You can’t 1031 a refi. A 1031 is for selling. And it’s only held there a short amount of time before you either put it toward another investment property. If not you pay the gains tax.
Thats why their saying, you refi and if you want to sell then do 1031 that way you are not affected by the depreciation on that property you had@@clayjones1933
Another great lesson with Uncle Ken. Keep em coming!
I love the new format Ken! Keep up the great work!
How or where did you get the money for the upgrades? The video doesn’t specify
Yep! It's always the same story... half of the info.
This is the clearest explanation of proper real estate investment that I've ever watched. Thanks Ken!
Are these type of evaluations in his book? This is great!
I like this new format! short and straight to the point 👍
Another amazing video with invaluable knowledge and an easy-to-understand example! This shows you why you NEED debt! The tax bill for all years shown was zero, not to mention the NOL of 200k and 100k from Year 1 and Year 3 respectively (and also Year 2, Year 4, and Year 5), would be carried over as a loss to offset future tax years, when the project becomes "profitable" against the depreciation value.
Without the debt, the NOI would have been taxed!
Thank you!
thank you ken
Learning....👍
Just one problem....how do you find someone with $millions to invest with you?
Ask 100 people and find out how much you learn. After asking 100 people, you will be a different person. And each day while you're doing this, take cold showers too. Just 3 minutes, you won't believe the change in your life.
The question is how to get the prior experience doing this successfully so that people will invest with you. They don't give millions to someone without significant experience.
There's a ton of books in syndicating
@@obie1coby reading books isn't experience. No one is giving millions of dollars to someone who has read books about syndicating.
That’s not where he started. You start with something smaller OR you invest your money with a group of other investors with someone like Ken’s organization. There are many out there. But it’s a 3-5 year commitment.
How do you find the other investors (not the bank)? How does one become an investor?
So it appears that you are planning on settling the tax bill when you sell the property. That is a valid strategy too. Can you show what strategy would you use at selling time? Thank you. Let me know if I am missing something please.
you never sell... "buy 'til you die". you live off the cashflow and cashout refi tax free in perpetuity. selling is silly.
@@mhusa2911 Thanks but that's not my question. There is a capital gains tax that will have to be dealt with. If he "dies" like you say, property receives a stepped up basis to the heirs. That's obvious. My question is how is he planning to handle that if he wants out before dying. So my question still has not been answered by him.
And, yes I am aware of 1035ing it if he wants as a potential solution.
@@siulanainad Thats why i said it's ***"Buy 'til you Die"***. You dont ever sell and you DONT NEED TO SELL. you can always extract 70% of building equity by cash out refi, which almost always returns all capital after about 3 to 5 years, and you get infinite cash flow until you die. Rinse repeat. when you can our refi, you push the cash as a down payment for a new asset, and eventually this loop produces a cash out refi ladder similar to a CD Ladder, but with much higher rates of return. while you wait for the cash out refi from any individual building, you are cashflowing in the meanwhile.
Also, You can drop the assets into irrevocable living trusts, and avoid step up in basis to heirs. I wouldnt want my heirs getting this undisciplined hands on the portfolio. Better to setup a trust and ensure the heirs live off the cashflow, same as you do.
if you need to sell for some technical reason, you can always 1031 into a newer bigger property.
@@siulanainad considering made money doing just this and won’t pay capital gains taxes ever, nor will my children. You need to raise one of them at least to have a brain though. You realize you can have this ran through a foundation, and just appoint your kid as your replacement right ? Charity can be renovating your own low income properties, increasing your cash flow and net. It’s literally an infinite cash loop.
Thank you for your videos Ken!
Quick question. In this video you did a cash out refinance. How did you finance the mortgage with the bank? Was it a FRMs or ARMs?
Is 19 mil USD the market value of the property? If not, how were you able to purchase the property for that price? Wouldn't there be a difference in the market value and the valuation of the property given by the bank?
You need a good track record in order to do this deal.
Where are the costs for repairing it? Maintenance? All costs involved.. isn’t it reducing your cash flow? Did I miss something?
Do you take the depreciation all at once or is it over the 27.5 years?
Thanks for the info!
Infinite return using 401k loan, infinite banking concept and brokerage account using margin loans and options.
Infinite money glitch scaling the leverage by setting up corporate stucture to create as many businesses as needed backed by an S corp and using business credit to start the infinite banking policy and then borrowing from the policy to do margin account and then margin loan to buy cashflow producing real estate
Great video. Thanks Ken.
Helo guis it is realidad
So if 400K is the annual interest due on 15M, that's a pretty low interest rate - around 2.7%. Dont think you can get that now.
No and even that rate back then for a commerical deal is unlikely.
Just came across this video and did the math. Checked that someone else had already picked it up. Thank you!
Thank you Ken.
Thank you for sharing this info!
So good!
This is a good overview example, but I am struggling to materialize it in reality. If you assume a low 50% expense ratio, your NET rent income is 1,400,000 going in. That means each apartment was renting for $455/month. Very very low in any state. So finding this in a good market is impossible, hence doubling the rents in about 5 years would also be very hard. What was your capital improvement budget? Even if you put only $10k per unit, that's - $2.7 mil. Loan: Annual P&I at 4.5% (which was probably the lowest commercial loan possible) would have been around $808,000 a year. So this property would be loosing money up to year 6. In year 6, assuming we come out of covid and interest rates spike up to 6.5 or 7.5 our P&I on 35m is 1.8 mil a year. The property is still loosing money like crazy. Ken, I know people pull these types of deals off, but what is the secret? Where do you get these super low rates, and such undervalued properties? Was is your actual investor level IRR? I know inverstors are looking for at least 13%+ IRR of good properties with solid track record.
Ken, It's not clear where your cut is in this scenario. Any cash from the re-fi and rent goes to the original investors that provided the $4m. Could you explain where you make your money in this deal apart from owning the property?
Also, this type of deal is near on impossible to find in Australia.
Its all his money, investment and profit. The original investors are imaginary and used to make this scenario seem obtainable.
You have to be rich already to acquire investors who'd lend you 4mil
Australia will likely get worse. Relocate
@@johnheath8882 He talks about using OPM and not his own money. I agree about Australia, relocating isn't easy as we're not regarded as 3rd world yet.
You can secure an equity (ownership) position for bringing a good deal to the table even if you have no monwy of your own in the deal. You can invest your own money as well. You can get a fee at acquisition from investors, a fee at refi, a fee at disposition and other key points. He isn't working for free. And yes, the Austrailian financial system is built the exact same way. Your belief that it isn't is a learned deficiency. Unlearn it.
Love this!!!!!
so the properties I will buy should be under company name not personal name?
What about CAPEX, considering $500k yearly depreciation??
I see rent income go from 700k to 1.5MM over 6 years.
So you more than doubled the rents on everyone over 6 years?
That's absolutely great, I'm sure the tenants who had to move somewhere else because they couldn't afford to live there any more thanked you.
Now imagine if everyone was doing this... rents would be going through the roof, everyone can barely afford to live, but YOU are making a boatload of cash.
Oh, wait... isn't that what's been happening???
Yeah the money is coming from someone else but lets be honest landlords don't see renting as taking advantage.... for some reason they love to say well people can always rent elsewhere cheaper... As if prices for housing can hover at zero or negative anywhere? Like if you can't make it work boss how is anyone else supposed to make that work.
I just don't agree with rents just going up every month. This is why things are so tough. Investors just keep looking to get 100% of your money. Use to be if you worked fulltime you could afford an apartment and save up for a home. Now you have to share an apartment with multiple people and hope rent doesn't go up the next year because your two jobs can't afford it.
The government 'creating' $6T out of thin air in one year is why things are broken.
Can someone explain to me where is the cost spent to increase the value of each units by 100$/month ? It must be at least a million $
It’s not real. He did the same video about 4 years ago. The only thing different in that video was it took 9 years and his cash flow was $600k with the same $500k depreciation and he owed $100k in taxes. Do what you want with it, but I call bullshit!
Amazing video❤
What about operating expenses where does that come into play?
So then how do you get paid Ken? You paid off investors by year 3. Are they paying you to manage during these years as well? After their capital is returned do you now participate in cash flow? Is there some sort of split going on?
And when interest rates rise? Forget the cash out refi and expect a call from the bank to give them more money when the LTV goes down... or hand over the keys.
Yep 8:04
Hey Ken! Is it standard to pay the interest on equity? Is that calculated into your monthly payment?
@taxleverage can you do a response video on this?
Ken - you're doing God's work
Real Estate has made a lot of millionaires. It won't matter for you, if you're not into it.
Good job on the video. Nice, Simple, Clear and to the Point.
This guy is the real deal
College is a waste of time and money
Your lines and language and filter is something everyone can learn show them how to learn your language keep it simple MC.
you get the loan to refinance from the same bank or a different one each time ? so basically their is no end game unless your sell the property ?
I dont fully understand what does you get at the end of year 6 ? what does the investor get out from it at year 6 he that put up the first 4 million that the bank did not cover ? Thank You
When he went back to the bank for a refinance they loaned enough to pay back original debt plus what the investors put in plus a million over that. So he returned the original equity and the property was still generating income and tax benefits. At the second refinance there was 5 million profit after paying back the refinance done at year 3 which I assume was split amongst investors plus they still had cash flow from the property. I think they did pretty well. The renters not so much.
@@nicerides9224 thank you. Do you know of a video that wxålains things like this in more details ? And what can the invwstors get for deals as this in percent returns ?
good point
Question - Since you are an expert operator, are you seeing any risk as your existing loans are maturing right now or all good because rents have increased over the 10 year loan term to increase NOI? So maybe no additional cash out refi possible on next round due to increase in rates, but you can appraise ok to just refi out existing loan maturity? So, rents when up enough over 10 year loan term to cover downside of higher rates, yes? How can I invest in your deals?
In what world is the payment on $15M 400K? The interest alone is way more.
❤❤❤
Excellent!
hi ken, I watch all your depreciation videos. are you essentially only paying the bank, partners and yourself up to zero tax with dep? I'm really slow on this, do you ever go over or is that money invested in renovations?
Where is the cost of repairs in this formula?
Thank you, Ken how can a small investor start doing this and how do I find other investors who are ready to get onboard?
my man❤❤❤
Let’s see an example of a small multifamily where you harvest equity to purchase a larger one for people that are starting out and want to grow in property count
Good stuff
Thanks ken
Fails to mention or consider the capital improvements required to reposition the property the achieve the higher rents, vacancy during the renovation of units under construction and turnover of units by those who cannot afford or qualify for more monthly rent expense.
He said it wasn't a value add.
love the channel but, is my math wrong here sub 4 cap and how do you get 15 million dollar loan for 400k a year? thats what a .75 % rate?
This model provides cash flow. Regardless, there is limited Equity on the property. This is what is fueling the "Econoimic Debt Cycle" in our culture. Too much debt- people and banks are over-extended. Not responisble.
This sounds like a fun life’s game… particularly when a person begins to learn the basic rules, collaborate with the best team of likeable people and with the profits invest in understanding their own state of consciousness so they can have more fun in their life and build upon their spiritual values to take with them when they die (: (:
Congrats - you explained basic real estate finance. Just FYI - Be wary of interest tracing rules, along with the debt-financed distribution rules. You’re likely losing 20% of the entity’s interest deduction in this scenario ($1MM of $5MM debt used for distributions), and hoping the partners can use this separately stated item on their personal returns.
I think this channel is dedicated to getting other peoples money. If values of buildings fall, competition from other new rentals enters driving rents down, then what are you supposed to do with that giant ass loan? Bankruptcy? Investing channels suck… just con men
Frickin Brilliant 🎉
Increase $150 every month, how is it possible to raise so much and keep tenants?
Such a great watch! The section on maximizing property value through strategic financial planning really got me thinking. For fellow multifamily investors, our channel is packed with invaluable insights and strategies.
that is a crazy rent increase if you are a tenant for those 6 years
hey Ken do you teach any classes ?
how do you tell or add value to an empty property if it is not rented yet or how to convince the bank or loaners to give you the money thanks, example I saw a property for I million in California
with 3 houses on it and I want to purchase it and the payment is around 6k monthly 20 percent down but I know I can rent the 3 houses for 7500-8500 with extra land for them to use for horses or cattle, goergeous land winery potential, 1 .5 hr from Sacramento here is the catch two of the homes need minor repairs and are mobile homes but the land is 168 acres in Amador county, bank won't loan because the condition and age of the homes and it is probably worth around 600k for the land only
Just answered your own questions. Selling for 1 million, only worth 600k.
When you are taking out the $25 million dollar loan to pay off the original $20 million loan don’t you need another downpaymwnt of $5 million - which you need to raise again and thus can’t be “infinite”. Am I missing something here? Can someone elaborate?
The property is worth 35mil when they take out the 25mil so there’s enough equity that doesn’t require a down payment
No. It's a cash-out refinance, not a new purchase. The original loan was on a mismanaged property. The new loan is based on the new higher value of a better run, more valuable and most importantly, stabilized property.
100% true.
BS and over simplified. Who gives you the 4million as deposit? What are they getting as a percentage of the deal, how are you and your partner making money from this with none of your own money? Sounds like a typical real estate scam where you fleece money from suckers and run. This video reeks of infomercial
Ken, thank you for your free, but highly valuable Advice! Question: In year 6, the building is valued at 35M. Based on this valuation, you were able to get a refinancing loan of 20M. What if the value of the building in year 7 is valuated at 20M only. Would the bank react and ask you for more, either other securities or change the contract completely?
What about having only two or three unoccupied houses that need renovation. What "other people's" money can you get to pay for renovation? Where do you get that money?
I need to learn this
@kenmcelroy You did not mention the cost of the “value add” at any point in this video? The cost of renovating 265 units, cost of labor, and vacancy cost to displace that many tenants. How are you not going to factor that into your cute little equation here pal??
What I don’t understand is why would you go trough all this trouble and risk if you could instead just buy an ETF like JEPQ and get a ~10% return (instead of a 7.5%)… even if the ETF price stayed the same? (Which doesn’t, but just to be conservative), am I missing anything here? Then at the end of 6 years you have $2.6 MM which translates (roughly) to ~10% over the original $4 MM. I haven’t done the whole math but I think you would still come ahead with an ETF, even after factoring taxes.
He has real assets that produce monthly cash flow. Your ETF could become valueless. Also, you can't use leverage. He is talking about using bank financing and other people's money to obtain partial ownership in a $25M apartment. To do the same in an ETF you would need to put $25M of your money into the deal.
@ you are saying that an ETF can become valueless and implying that a “real asset” like real estate cannot? Did you forget already about 2008? Also, an ETF is much more liquid. If things start going south I can sell my ETF within minutes. How fast can you sell a house? I could keep going, I just don’t have the time nor the inclination.
@Roman49837 Homes did not become valueless in 2008. Mortgage backed securities and fraud nearly bankrupted the planet. Can you live in your etf if times get tough?
But again.... you need $25M to buy $25M of your ETF. You need an education and $0 to own part of a $25M apartment complex. How is paper better?
This should be taught in schools. Thank you for being so clear cut and straightforward on how to actually do real estate. Many large company don’t even operate this way.
Perfect timing, I found a property with similar value ads.
Wow....but isn't there interet on the initial 15 million and also the 20 million?
You pay off the 15million with the 20mill and you have 5mill left over and your paying interest on the 20million but he has positive cash flow so I guess it works I’m kinda trying to figure it out myself but that’s what I got out of it lol 😂
Bank's here in Australia are very wary of 'cashout' loans
3.8k+
Also what about the interest on each bank debt? 15M (original loan debt) + 4M (borrowed equity) + 1M (equity returns) = 20M (new loan debt).
But what pays the interest on 15M (original loan debt)?
How would you do this with something other than property?
There’s no physical asset so need a different strategy
But what about the $25M debt owed to the bank from year 6?
💸💸💸💸
Can someone show this to AG Leticia James and let her see how banks determine property value... TRUMP 2024!
Leticia James should be in jail and her license revoked. TRUMP 2024!!!
BONE SPURS is a CROOk...Easy
better not let NYC or LA know about this or they will figure out how to take it from you and your investors
Yes, tRump 2024. 20 years for corruption. 24 years for treason.
@@JackFrost-wu2bq Not a cult LOL
So rents more than doubled over the six years? With the homeless situation and the way hedge funds have escalated rents, does anyone consider the impact on renters of their rent overhead doubling in a few years?
Love your videos and books, Ken! I know you are using rounded numbers for this example, but I just don't see how your annual loan payment can only be $400k on a $15 million loan. Assuming a traditional commercial loan, even at 0% interest, the monthly payment is at a minimum $50,000 or $600,000 annually. What am I missing here?
Can you make a video about how to make the papers nice for the banks you aprove your loan on the real estates ? and also how to find the investor that will lend you the rest of the money that the bank dont lend you ? Thank You
The loan interest rate, initially was $400,000 on $15m which is 2.66% assuming it was an interest only loan. You can't get that now by a long shot. So you need to do these deals when interest rates are a lot lower than now. And then factor in the cost of paying back the principal.
You do the same thing with houses, just take away a couple 0's