"Murder in the first 5 minutes... This is not what I want from Star Wars" Meanwhile Star Wars: *War crimes, beheadings , maimings, torture, burning someone alive*
except when you watch a new hope or any movie from the original trilogy you don't think about the murders. Vader doesn't even do anything other than choke some npc guy. When Luke kills a billion people you don't think about it, because they're faceless bad guys. But imagine if Luke just gunned down obi wan for no reason after he gave him the lightsaber. That would've been weird, wouldn't it?
Very much disagree. I enjoyed the mature take on the nature of rebellion that characterised 'Rogue One' and 'Andor'. It seems like he has quite a shallow idea of what Star Wars is. There's some dark stuff in the Expanded Universe.
I think people are missing his point. He is saying that it was trying to make him care about people that don't matter to the storyline. His point was that if he ends up having to care about every character in the films, then it ruins the overarching feel of the films.
I wouldn't say it was callous as he had a mission to save the galaxy and the other guy was unfortunately in the way. Obiwan hacked off a drunk guy's arm in a bar. Han straight murdered a bounty hunter. Has this guy seen star wars?
Because this has Star Wars the algorithm will probably pick this up, but for those out of the loop, this is Brandon Sanderson, accomplished Fantasy Author/book writer, his work is some of the best fantasy and this is probably just his personal opinion on what kind of star wars he likes, which I can understand from writing dramatic complex works of fiction to want to unwind with a comparative simple story of “good v evil” example: Star Wars Disney(note I do not mention Legends) and compared to Sanderson Disney can’t hold a candle to light up the surface of mercury
Right off the bat, I write long comments because I enjoy thinking about this stuff, not because I want to upset folks. I can understand why you think that but I disagree about the degree of grayness in the original trilogy. George is actively revisionist about his own lore and what he originally intended. For one he didn't originally intend anything except to write an episodic fantasy. So we can ignore George's later work and statements as well as the work of his contracted writers. They weren't influenced by a pre-Star Wars master script. So taken as they are, there are few characters in the original trilogy who commit to both good and evil actions at different times. Luke teeters on the edge but doesn't fall over. Han's dark behaviors are off screen. Anything Leia or the rebellion might have done are off screen. Most of the Imperial soldiers who the rebels kill are actively involved in--not genocide but geocide. Terracide. On Earth you generally have to volunteer to be a part of the strategic rocket force (RU) or central command (US). These people are tested to make sure they will press the button.The Air Force actually has a hard time getting people to want to man silos. And as for the architects of WMDs, people like Oppenheimer knew what they were making. Others did too and they (Einstein) refused to be involved. Culpability extends to less deadly defense projects as well. I have a friend who turned down a good job at Raytheon for ethical reasons. Meanwhile the inventor of the Uzi created that gun for political reasons. So did recently passed Jstark, gun rights advocate and 3D designer for Europe. You can argue that these people were right or wrong. You can argue about the morality of their intentions as well. It is harder to argue that they are innocent, ignorant, honest janitors. As if you'd have an unreliable slave-soldiers like Finn cleaning up the control rooms of super weapons.
His argument isn't 'I want no violence in SW,' it's that he was bothered by a cold blooded murder being committed by a protagonist, and by proxy the whole movie being about how the franchises' good guys are moral hypocrites, which breaks the simple fairy-tale morality that's at the heart of SW. And he's right: SW isn't supposed to be Game of Thrones. Turning it grimdark is a mistake and a betrayal of what Lucas was trying to do.
I love Sanderson, of course I do, but this is a really, truly awful take. Star Wars is so damn huge it just doesn’t seem right to try cramming it into a singular pleasant little box. People have likened Star Wars to myth all the time, but something we forget is that by the time something gets fo be a myth, it’s often compiled from many damaged of incomplete sources with different authors and sensibilities and we’re trying to cobble together a linear narrative from the different pieces. I’m not saying that’s one to one what these different directors are doing, but it is what’s falling together naturally. And as one more story in a great, fractured canon, I welcome Rogue One. I know I’m getting off base here, but it does renew my frustration with Disney relegating all the non film material before their takeover to alternate continuity. George Lucas insisted on tiers of continuity, but that absolutely everything written had its place. Maybe that’s not so different, ultimately, but it sounds more respectful at least.
I would not say he is wrong. He does not like those aspect of star wars. I disagree that it's scope needs to be limited as well but if that is not what he wants from a star wars movie of course he is entitled to that. He did not say it was bad ( at least in this short)
rogue one sucks tho. It's nothing but a fan-service gallery disguised as a real film. And the film fucking sucks, all the characters suck. Andor is good as it's own show, but rogue one will forever remain garbage solely because there's dumb fan service every 13 seconds.
Very much agree. Luke, Han, and Leia all have character flaws, but they are all good people and have their redeeming qualities. It’s like watching the Crying Baby Dilemma. Star Wars is about good guys, bad guys, family, and redemption. It’s not about stone cold killers making nasty ethical decisions.
I disagree, there’s always been darkness in star wars that is crucial to starwars, Anakin does kill dooku when he is defenseless because the Chancellor told him to, which he was struggling with, he murdered innocents because of what some sand people did. Do A kill to make sure a mission doesn’t go wrong, is reasonable and accepted
not to mention obi wan cutting off someones arm just for being an annoying drunk, han shooting a bounty hunter in cold blood, and a million other things
It's weird because I was basically on board with Rogue one until the introduction of adult Jyn Erso. There was some kind of montage of planet hopping where it seemed like a good few things were happening very quickly but we didn't learn much about her as a character. I was like "what the fuck is all this nonsense" and no amount of silly droids or cool force monks or Darth Vader fan service ever shook me out of just not really caring about the story being told. For all the problems with Force Awakens, at least Rey's introduction is immediately charming and lets you know what she's all about. I guess what I'm saying is that; though there's plenty of death and callousness, I guess I'm agreeing with Brandon that Star Wars tends lean more towards being fun and exciting, its world grounded and grimy but never exactly 'grim' in the mundane, 'realistic' way.
Hey as much as i love star wars and especially rogue one i get what hes saying. He doesnt want to worry about the ethics of star wars, he wants fun space battles and explosions without the horrific implications. I understand his take, even if i disagree with it (rouge one and andor are my favorite additions to the new star wars canon), hes not saying its bad hes just saying it wasnt for him which i can always respect
You can not like it but I think that's a silly reason... how do you enjoy literally ANY movie... even kids films have moments where there'd surely be some kind of casualty
One thing Disney has done amazing with Star Wars is to give detail to the brutality of the Empire and the cost of a rebellion. Star Wars Rebels, Rogue One, and Andor have done this perfectly. A scene to sum it all up is when Ezra finds Tarkin Town destroyed. What Kanan Jarrus said should be heard by everyone, Star Wars fan or not. I too also found Andor to be slow like everyone else. But after watching Rogue One again, I began to really appreciate it. But Rogue One itself was a perfect movie. Also the first ever Star Wars movie starts with people getting killed. This is a horrible take.
I think he started off sounding really dumb, especially because rogue 1 is the only good Disney star wars movie so far.. but at the end he makes a good point. I don't want to be in the mindset of looking for events that rely on shock value like assassinations, etc. Still not the smartest argument imo.. Darth Vader literally choked some dude out in the first 5 minutes
I also didn't love Rogue One, but for different reasons than Sanderson. For me the movie was overly ambitious. We didn't spend enough time with the characters for me to fall in love with them so the Game of Thrones-esq ending didn't land as hard for me as something on the level of the Red Wedding. But while I didn't love Rogue One, I LOVED Andor. I was a huge Star Wars fan as a kid, but as an adult I no longer see it as the best thing ever. Shows like Andor. though, really draw me back into that headspace. I like how it adds complexity to a universe that sometimes feel vanilla to me. To quote Emperor Palpatine: "If one is to understand 'the great mystery' one must study all it's aspects, not just the narrow dogmatic view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force." Palpatine was an evil dude, but he wasn't wrong about this.
Totally disagree, not everything can be sunshine and rainbows in a franchise that literally has war in the title. Does he forget Vader literally chokes people to death, the amount of violence in a new hope alone 😂
idk anything abt this guy but this is actually a p good critique of how classic war narratives rely on and endorse dehumanization, i just cant tell if he meant it that way or if this is just a complaint abt rogue one making him feel bad abt jedi war crimes lol
Star Wars is (mostly) fantasy with clear cut good vs evil. Sanderson is a highly successful fantasy writer so he should know a thing or two about the genre. IMO "realistic" Star Wars doesn't work b/c the trilogy movies aren't realistic. The logistics of the Star Wars universe doesn't work at all. Those movies are fairy tales.
Disagree this was the only good star wars movie that disney made. IT was more gritty and war style while still having the star wars feel. Everything else disney has made is dogshit and doesn't capture the feel of the SW universe.
That's the point. Things aren't really black and white. The rebellion killed good, honest, hardworking men and women just trying to provide for their families.
"Murder in the first 5 minutes...
This is not what I want from Star Wars"
Meanwhile Star Wars: *War crimes, beheadings , maimings, torture, burning someone alive*
lmao murder is ok after the first 5min I guess
Not to mention there Mass genocide, slavery, and sexism in the original trilogy.
@@garrettstewart5397 Did it even take five minutes for Vader to end his interrogation of a possibly civilian captain with suffocation?
Clone wars TV show is all war crimes lol
You just don’t get it
The first ever new hope Star Wars movie literally starts with a darth Vader massacre
except when you watch a new hope or any movie from the original trilogy you don't think about the murders. Vader doesn't even do anything other than choke some npc guy.
When Luke kills a billion people you don't think about it, because they're faceless bad guys.
But imagine if Luke just gunned down obi wan for no reason after he gave him the lightsaber. That would've been weird, wouldn't it?
Very much disagree. I enjoyed the mature take on the nature of rebellion that characterised 'Rogue One' and 'Andor'. It seems like he has quite a shallow idea of what Star Wars is. There's some dark stuff in the Expanded Universe.
I think people are missing his point. He is saying that it was trying to make him care about people that don't matter to the storyline. His point was that if he ends up having to care about every character in the films, then it ruins the overarching feel of the films.
Yes we know what he is saying. But why is he caring about a spy?
I mean when Vader is killing rebel soldier to open new hope then his whole premise goes out the window. Lol
@@josehernandez-mb7ihand you are still clearly missing the point even after this guy tries to explain it to you
@@extonjonas6820 i understand what he said but literally new hope start with killing. That’s all I’m saying. Not more than less
Bad experience with Rogue One? Bro, the Sequel Trilogy, that's a really bad experience.
I wouldn't say it was callous as he had a mission to save the galaxy and the other guy was unfortunately in the way.
Obiwan hacked off a drunk guy's arm in a bar. Han straight murdered a bounty hunter. Has this guy seen star wars?
I would say no.
"I'm wanted for murder in 10 systems--oh my God I was kidding!"
Because this has Star Wars the algorithm will probably pick this up, but for those out of the loop, this is Brandon Sanderson, accomplished Fantasy Author/book writer, his work is some of the best fantasy and this is probably just his personal opinion on what kind of star wars he likes, which I can understand from writing dramatic complex works of fiction to want to unwind with a comparative simple story of “good v evil” example: Star Wars Disney(note I do not mention Legends) and compared to Sanderson Disney can’t hold a candle to light up the surface of mercury
Thats the fun part about star wars. Once you get into the deep lore, there are no good guys. Its the perfect morally grey story.
Your just wrong
Right off the bat, I write long comments because I enjoy thinking about this stuff, not because I want to upset folks.
I can understand why you think that but I disagree about the degree of grayness in the original trilogy.
George is actively revisionist about his own lore and what he originally intended. For one he didn't originally intend anything except to write an episodic fantasy.
So we can ignore George's later work and statements as well as the work of his contracted writers. They weren't influenced by a pre-Star Wars master script.
So taken as they are, there are few characters in the original trilogy who commit to both good and evil actions at different times.
Luke teeters on the edge but doesn't fall over. Han's dark behaviors are off screen. Anything Leia or the rebellion might have done are off screen.
Most of the Imperial soldiers who the rebels kill are actively involved in--not genocide but geocide.
Terracide.
On Earth you generally have to volunteer to be a part of the strategic rocket force (RU) or central command (US).
These people are tested to make sure they will press the button.The Air Force actually has a hard time getting people to want to man silos.
And as for the architects of WMDs, people like Oppenheimer knew what they were making. Others did too and they (Einstein) refused to be involved.
Culpability extends to less deadly defense projects as well. I have a friend who turned down a good job at Raytheon for ethical reasons.
Meanwhile the inventor of the Uzi created that gun for political reasons. So did recently passed Jstark, gun rights advocate and 3D designer for Europe.
You can argue that these people were right or wrong. You can argue about the morality of their intentions as well. It is harder to argue that they are innocent, ignorant, honest janitors.
As if you'd have an unreliable slave-soldiers like Finn cleaning up the control rooms of super weapons.
what? are you fucking high? there's a clear good vs bad guys in star wars. Empire literally blows up a whole planet just to test their new weapon.
You can’t enjoy star wars worrying about the empires janitors? Seriously? Just listen to what you said
Dont tell this guy about vaders atrocities he might shit himself.
His argument isn't 'I want no violence in SW,' it's that he was bothered by a cold blooded murder being committed by a protagonist, and by proxy the whole movie being about how the franchises' good guys are moral hypocrites, which breaks the simple fairy-tale morality that's at the heart of SW. And he's right: SW isn't supposed to be Game of Thrones. Turning it grimdark is a mistake and a betrayal of what Lucas was trying to do.
I love Sanderson, of course I do, but this is a really, truly awful take. Star Wars is so damn huge it just doesn’t seem right to try cramming it into a singular pleasant little box.
People have likened Star Wars to myth all the time, but something we forget is that by the time something gets fo be a myth, it’s often compiled from many damaged of incomplete sources with different authors and sensibilities and we’re trying to cobble together a linear narrative from the different pieces. I’m not saying that’s one to one what these different directors are doing, but it is what’s falling together naturally. And as one more story in a great, fractured canon, I welcome Rogue One.
I know I’m getting off base here, but it does renew my frustration with Disney relegating all the non film material before their takeover to alternate continuity. George Lucas insisted on tiers of continuity, but that absolutely everything written had its place. Maybe that’s not so different, ultimately, but it sounds more respectful at least.
I would not say he is wrong. He does not like those aspect of star wars. I disagree that it's scope needs to be limited as well but if that is not what he wants from a star wars movie of course he is entitled to that. He did not say it was bad ( at least in this short)
I cannot roll my eyes harder.
rogue one sucks tho. It's nothing but a fan-service gallery disguised as a real film. And the film fucking sucks, all the characters suck. Andor is good as it's own show, but rogue one will forever remain garbage solely because there's dumb fan service every 13 seconds.
Very much agree.
Luke, Han, and Leia all have character flaws, but they are all good people and have their redeeming qualities.
It’s like watching the Crying Baby Dilemma. Star Wars is about good guys, bad guys, family, and redemption. It’s not about stone cold killers making nasty ethical decisions.
bro a whole squadron of princess leia's guards were straight up murdered defending the ship as the opening act to a new hope. wat?
Rogue One is the only good Star Wars film to come out after Disney purchased Star Wars. I bet this guy likes The Last Jedi.
That's a dumb reason bro. This guy's opinion means little if that is his take
Rogue one was really the only star wars movie I enjoyed in the last 20 years
idk about 20 years, but 10 years since disney bought it yes.
I disagree, there’s always been darkness in star wars that is crucial to starwars, Anakin does kill dooku when he is defenseless because the Chancellor told him to, which he was struggling with, he murdered innocents because of what some sand people did. Do A kill to make sure a mission doesn’t go wrong, is reasonable and accepted
The opening scene too the first star wars is filled with callous murder, but Ig rebels dont count
So the Beginning of the opening crawl of a new hope you didn't imagine it would be brutal?
L take
Get this guy off the mic, L take
Rogue One is the best of the new movies.
So you don’t like A New Hope either? Cause newsflash, Vader choked someone out almost immediately😭
Bro forgot what put the WAR in star wars 🗿
Not usual that I disagree with Brandon but Rogue one is a masterpiece
Rogue one is my favourite SW film and I was a kid when they first came out. This snowflake probably wants more Ewoks and Jar Jar Binks.
Star wars EU: laughs in Sith olocaust and Yuuzahn Vong
Vader literally chokes a guy to death in the first 5 minutes of a new hope
Vader is the bad guy. I think this is mostly a question of ethical delimmas
The action that caused Luke to leave his home and start his journey: enter burning skeleton family members.
not to mention obi wan cutting off someones arm just for being an annoying drunk, han shooting a bounty hunter in cold blood, and a million other things
I think rogue one is the best disney star wars by far. I liked the dark and adult themes and was sad they didnt go on with them in the other movies.
Best star wars film
I love Rogue One.
Does anyone remember Owen and Beru as flaming corpses? That’s Star Wars, dude!
It's weird because I was basically on board with Rogue one until the introduction of adult Jyn Erso. There was some kind of montage of planet hopping where it seemed like a good few things were happening very quickly but we didn't learn much about her as a character. I was like "what the fuck is all this nonsense" and no amount of silly droids or cool force monks or Darth Vader fan service ever shook me out of just not really caring about the story being told.
For all the problems with Force Awakens, at least Rey's introduction is immediately charming and lets you know what she's all about. I guess what I'm saying is that; though there's plenty of death and callousness, I guess I'm agreeing with Brandon that Star Wars tends lean more towards being fun and exciting, its world grounded and grimy but never exactly 'grim' in the mundane, 'realistic' way.
Rouge One was the best Star Wars film since the original 3
Hey as much as i love star wars and especially rogue one i get what hes saying. He doesnt want to worry about the ethics of star wars, he wants fun space battles and explosions without the horrific implications. I understand his take, even if i disagree with it (rouge one and andor are my favorite additions to the new star wars canon), hes not saying its bad hes just saying it wasnt for him which i can always respect
Based
Doesn't A New Hope literally start like that...
I was on my way to watch Rogue One in theater when they released the news that Carrie Fisher passed away.
Heartbreaking
Yes I also prefer my fictional wars to have absolutely no killing in them
You can not like it but I think that's a silly reason... how do you enjoy literally ANY movie... even kids films have moments where there'd surely be some kind of casualty
Nah that movie was great, especially this darker tone. Cannot agree to what he sais
the writers must have been george rr martin fans
One thing Disney has done amazing with Star Wars is to give detail to the brutality of the Empire and the cost of a rebellion. Star Wars Rebels, Rogue One, and Andor have done this perfectly. A scene to sum it all up is when Ezra finds Tarkin Town destroyed. What Kanan Jarrus said should be heard by everyone, Star Wars fan or not. I too also found Andor to be slow like everyone else. But after watching Rogue One again, I began to really appreciate it. But Rogue One itself was a perfect movie. Also the first ever Star Wars movie starts with people getting killed. This is a horrible take.
*person getting mad at senseless murder*
Everyone likening darth Vader and anakin:👁🫦👁
Episode IV start with Vader murdering a dozen men in cold blood 5 minutes AFTER ROGUE ONE ENDS!!!!!
Never disagreed more with someone, but to each their own I guess.
Master Skywalker there too many of them what are we going to do
That was actually really good
Rouge 101 my fav rapper too
Rogue one ..Best star wars film in my opinion
I think he started off sounding really dumb, especially because rogue 1 is the only good Disney star wars movie so far.. but at the end he makes a good point. I don't want to be in the mindset of looking for events that rely on shock value like assassinations, etc.
Still not the smartest argument imo.. Darth Vader literally choked some dude out in the first 5 minutes
Gonna have to stop you there my good sir
I also didn't love Rogue One, but for different reasons than Sanderson. For me the movie was overly ambitious. We didn't spend enough time with the characters for me to fall in love with them so the Game of Thrones-esq ending didn't land as hard for me as something on the level of the Red Wedding.
But while I didn't love Rogue One, I LOVED Andor. I was a huge Star Wars fan as a kid, but as an adult I no longer see it as the best thing ever. Shows like Andor. though, really draw me back into that headspace. I like how it adds complexity to a universe that sometimes feel vanilla to me.
To quote Emperor Palpatine: "If one is to understand 'the great mystery' one must study all it's aspects, not just the narrow dogmatic view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force." Palpatine was an evil dude, but he wasn't wrong about this.
Totally disagree, not everything can be sunshine and rainbows in a franchise that literally has war in the title. Does he forget Vader literally chokes people to death, the amount of violence in a new hope alone 😂
also the fact that all the characters died
idk anything abt this guy but this is actually a p good critique of how classic war narratives rely on and endorse dehumanization, i just cant tell if he meant it that way or if this is just a complaint abt rogue one making him feel bad abt jedi war crimes lol
rogue one was one of the best
Now im wondering how many dislikes this video actually has 🤔....well, there +1 from me
Star Wars killed a lot of guys
Anakin murdered a bunch of kids. TWICE, what do you think Star Wars is?
I'm sticking with warhammer 40k. Star wars is a joke
So this guy is a man-child then? I mean come on. It's a rebellion, what do you expect?
Star Wars is (mostly) fantasy with clear cut good vs evil. Sanderson is a highly successful fantasy writer so he should know a thing or two about the genre.
IMO "realistic" Star Wars doesn't work b/c the trilogy movies aren't realistic. The logistics of the Star Wars universe doesn't work at all.
Those movies are fairy tales.
I think he meant Andor. Not Rogue One.
A child is what this man is
All I gotta say about that guy is one thing and one thing only. 🤓
Disagree this was the only good star wars movie that disney made. IT was more gritty and war style while still having the star wars feel. Everything else disney has made is dogshit and doesn't capture the feel of the SW universe.
Yeah this is kind of an odd take. I loved Rogue One and the ending of it was a masterpiece. Not sure why someone dying is such a problem
That's the point. Things aren't really black and white. The rebellion killed good, honest, hardworking men and women just trying to provide for their families.
If you’re looking for deep, complicated storytelling, Star Wars isn’t what you want.
What about andor
Rogue one is easily my favorite star wars movie. Dont know what that says about me
I didn't like rogue one either but not because of this just because I thought it was boring and pointless
Greedo leaves the chat
Brandon, my beloved.. that's a really awful take, specially coming from you
Eh
Everyone has a wrong opinion from time to time
I fell asleep in the theatre watching this movie.
I disagree completely
Low T.
No, lots of bad stuff happens to take down an empire.
Oh were so good yawn
What a drone.
This guy doesn't know anything about Star Wars
Terrible take lmao
Smh..... Rogue 1 is everything that I wished Episodes 1-3 could have been.
Idk man sounds like a skill issue
Then go watch the kids shows?
Kids, this is what a 50 year old child looks like. Don't grow up to be this simple...
🤡🤡🤡
Horrible take.
Grow up
I dont really like u 😅
Rogue one is a masterpiece
Bad experience 😂
He has no Idea of what he saying cause he's not a true star wars fan
Let’s not do the whole gatekeeping thing please. That’s my biggest pet peeve.
Oooh brotherrrrr
L take