Stellaris Early Corvette Design & Pre-Contact Wars
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- Stellaris Corvette Design has changed massively since the Stellaris 3.6 Combat Rework. Let's look at Pre-Contact Wars and the ships we will use to fight them!
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We will look at the four early corvette designs that form a nice rock-paper-scissors. WE will also look at all of the excellent moves we can make to fight our alien enemies before we even learn to talk to them. Oh what fun!
Lets dive in!
Find out more about Ship Design after the Stellaris 3.6 Combat Rework: • Stellaris Ship Design ...
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:30 First Steps
2:32 Find The Capital
2:59 Spy On Their Ships
4:15 Early Corvette Design
7:00 Corvette Design Summary
7:31 Deal With Their Colonies
8:44 The Knockout Blow
12:17 Faster Growth Than Clone Army Origin
Stellaris Version 3.6
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And please comment with any feedback, any ideas or if you disagree! - Ігри
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That game is like 2016 so its a bit late:)
As missiles are small weapons, starbases do not use them. You need swarm missiles for that.
In one of the recent reports Ruslan Leviev has suggested that intentionally letting a mistake slip into the video would actually drive the engagement up, because of the viewers who would flock to the comment section trying to correct you.
I just love : Clash of Clans is free to play mobile game set on pre-FTL World.
7:07 can you please tell who beats who in a fight between pd+missile vs lasers/kinetic?(I understand that obviously pd+lasers/kinetics beat missiles only
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards"
Montus
Lmfao
just like tic-tac-toe
Checkmate!
@@BaronVonMott Beat me to it!
Ah yes, space dart-domino-cards. A popular game in the fringe regions and amongst smugglers.
Sounds like there are some rough edges around pre-contact wars that need to be ironed out over time. It's weird that conquering their worlds wouldn't count as conquering them. It would probably give them a danged complex -- they met aliens and the first thing that happened is their entire civilization was conquered.
Would also be a bit nice to have options for the envoy. If you ARE interested in aggressive contact, the envoy can instead be assigned to slow down contact efforts by coordinating attempts to hide your communications traffic, and maybe coordinate espionage to learn more about your target. After all, your desire to fight them might be based on a number of factors, such as whether you think they present a long-term threat or might stifle expansion.
We should also get basic intel on enemy ships by just being in system. Instead of squinting at models (which is not accessible for some players!) we should get basic info on their classes. Oh, this class has missile hardpoints. Oh, we fought this ship and saw lasers coming from it, so this turret is an energy weapon. We shot this ship and saw it had no shields. Etc.
Logically the effect should be the same as invading primitives, a decade of sullen sulking and hate. Or with a secret desire to strike back to end the occupation.
Ideally, the new counter-cloaking sensors could be used to provide different levels of information.
Shields and armor information can be given by looking at the ships, though sometimes it can only show the total ship and armour amount when looking at it, sometimes it'll show individual
Galactic Council: "According to our historical archives, you invaded a fellow sentient empire as soon as you discovered FTL travel, what say you?"
Montu: "I didn't invade them, I discovered them!"
I'm dead xD. I'll probably try this out though.
I've heard this story of discoveries before, right here on planet earth haha
I like the idea of pre-contact war but I love vivisection more!
In any other community, this comment would get you banned. Instead, we all just nod in agreement. Ain’t it all grand?
I never thought I'd see the day Montu was sponsored by THE Clash of Clans. Truly a man making his way up in the galaxy
I have legit never seen a youtuber do a sponsorship for Clash of Clans before. An actually good mobile game sponsorship!
Next time he will land that Raid Shadow Legends sponsor then we know he truly made it as a UA-cam content creator! lol
I've said no to Raid on repeated occasions. CoC is a fun game though, I was excited when they reached out!
@@generalfeeessh7764 shut your mouth
@@JaKingScomez Is someone mad for no reason?
Clash of Clans has really been going hard on sponsorships lately
Supercell trying to kite players since clash royale recent golden age is kinda gone now I guess
I mean, it's no wonder why everyone loves coc
First time I've ever seen a clash ad
I haven’t seen a clash of clans ad is years.
It has mostly been RAaaaaaAaaIiIiiiiiIIiIiIiIiiDdddddrdDDDD Shadow legends.
@@bkane573 True, but I've been seing more CoC sponsorships lately
Devouring swarm: *excited screeching*
Just by chance, did you confuse tic tac toe with rock paper scissors?
I don't think so ...
Yes I'm fairly certain I wouldn't do that!
Tic tac toe represents stalemate, which should be applicable to fleets with nothing but missiles and point defense, assuming they encounter another perfectly balanced fleet with nothing but missiles and point defense.
@@mushyroom9569 Hello, Doctor Faulkner. Would you like to play a game?
I use pre-contact wars quite a bit. Especially if I can see that they have a good origin like say remnants, shattered ring, or even life seeded. Sure those are great starts and make for some tough pre-contact wars but they are winnable. Once had a game where I spawned next to a shattered ring and a remnants empire and when I saw that I put everything I had into building the best fleets I could and conquered them both in pre-contact wars. So got a ringworld and relic world to play around with that I otherwise wouldn't have had.
Part of me wishes the early game would last longer. I feel envoys establish communications way too quickly, eliminating any cool first contact stories or fun with early corvette fleets. But I get this feeling in Civilization games where I want 70% of the game to be played in the bronze age lol, so could just be a me thing.
ik the feeling. For whatever reason that "bronze/classical" age in any game, even the early bits of stellaris, always appeals to me the most.
I'm playing around with changing the tech settings for just this reason. The transition from early game to mid-late feels too fast. Like "oh look I got another ship type that changes to entire balance of my military. Oh well I'll just wait 5 years to upgrade when I have the next one."
@@carteradams43 You should consider trying the game "Old World" it's a civ type game based entirely in that era. (Ancient---Classical)
@@meihu92 i have it wishlisted atm
Yeah haven’t gotten to late game stellaris yet but the mid game has been way less fun. The exploring see who I find was great then you meet 3 civs that completely box you in and before you know it the congress is formed and the whole universe is full.
I was playing on console the other day and almost destroyed another player in a First Contact war. I scouted his capital and sent ships to bombard it. As I moved my armies up to invade, he broke First Contact and diplomatically forced my fleet and army to retreat.
It was very exciting because nobody in the lobby had ever seen a First Contact war and he had no clue who was attacking him or where the came from. Two of the players actually became very scared of me after that lol
You're giving me dangerous ideas to spook people. I'm stealing this.
Do you just join random lobbies or do you find people setting them up? I usually see some lobbies on Xbox but don’t want to be invited to a party afterwards cuz anxiety (also I only play like an hour or two recently)
@@jasperwildlifeassociation5828 usually have friends who set up a game, because it's hard to find a random lobby that's still on empire selection. Plus, I work for a living so I'm only one maybe a day or two out of the week, so it's better for me to play w friends that way the game came be saved and come back to
Great video, would like to see more strategic videos like this. Especially more about ship design.
I love these videos! Keep making more of these ship design vids, they really help me get better
Oooh I have not thought to actually look at the ship models to do a counter in a pre-contact war. Nice idea!
Be me. Roleplay game online.
Playing Authoritarian Xenophile Materialist Criminal Megacorp. Roleplay as Hutt cartel.
Initiated First Contact.
"Yeah if i knock some sense into them early on, i'll be golden."
...
..
.
Fight becomes a back&forth slug. I'm losing the upper-hand. His fleets are constantly at higher fleet power than mine.
First contact finishes.
"Lemme see who these guys are"
Doomsday Determined Exterminators
"Well, there goes my game."
It’s so funny that I just had my very first pre-contact war last night and then you release this video!
i've learned so much !!! clear and precise thank you for that
good video as always mate. i would love to see late game corvete and battleship design (the only2 ship types i use)
Awesome strategy video. I think it will change entirely the way I do first contact :) A real gem!
Of course, this only works if there's another empire that starts the game very near to you. Otherwise, the distance is great enough to give them enough time to prepare their fleet.
In general, I find that most indigenous lifeforms have no shields, so a triple laser corvette is by far the best design.
My new game I had no contacts until after 2223! The weird thing is with one of them first contact happened only 3 jumps from their home world. I thought I'd been chill on the exploration and surveying, as on huge galaxy it's often smart to let the aggro empires butt heads first with each other, so I delayed scouting further afield.
I was trying to set up a nice defensible tall empire finding a gateway and Art Megastructure 1 hop from my Remnant relic home world, plus then the Rubricator world. So I had just gone for the choke points then tried to secure a black hole, see if they were L-gates etc, but in the other direction as the thin strand between me and galactic core looked unlikely to be hiding hostiles
On contact of course it was soon clear that they were going to be dicks 😁😁
The galaxy is diminished by their presence 😁
@@TheHuffur you should be sorry, you made yourself look stupid and petty. Dick/prick is common slang for disagreeable nasty belligerent types.
@@TheHuffur your communication skills are abysmal , you quoted me.
You obviously weren't joking because you're just trying to be annoying and there's nothing funny in what you said.
@@TheHuffur you don't seem to understand English properly, context is everything in languages. So you're simply making wrong assumptions and even knew it was a bad comment as you felt explanation was required.
@@TheHuffur continue making an absolute fool of yourself, the reason I told you dick's meaning in that context was because I could see your lame thought process.
That you needed to mansplain your transparent thought process says alot about you.
You're just trying to troll but you're not smart about it.
Can't wait to try this, thanks Montu!
Hope you enjoy!
I've never tried doing first contact wars, but this video was very informative. I might have to bump down the difficulty a little bit and give it a try 👍
I do have a question though. In the rock paper scissors of ship design, would it make sense to replace shields with armor when going against missile corvettes and PD missile corvettes since those ignore shields? Or are the shields important to take care of the starbase?
Maybe. Might be worth a try. Especially if you're playing as a Devouring Swarm with their regenerating armour.
The AI knows how to build units to counter you.
You skip shields? They stop equipping mass drivers eventually.
I recommend keeping a low volume of shields and focusing more on armour for durability.
After all half of all weapons ignore shields.
@@glenmcgillivray4707 The AI doesn't counter, different personalities have specific weights/preferences with their defense/weapons that they try to follow as they unlock techs.
@@magicalchicken5667 You're both wrong, they can counter but it requires intel for AI to acknowledge your ship design (which means it's not possible in a pre-contact war)
@@orkboy1621 They don't work like that though, what people likely see is actually them getting a tech and equipping/upgrading to their preferred weapons/defense weights and it just happens to be a counter to what you were doing at that time.
Late-game when they have most stuff, they will basically not change their designs beyond upgrades that may be left.
While an interesting option, it seems like this system isn't properly fleshed out, particularly with the conclusion when you win. With First Contact coming out, I think it'd be cool if they incorporated some of the new mechanics into inter-empire contact. Maybe there could be some equivalent to Awareness that tracks your intel on other empires? With stealth craft and envoy actions enabling you to reduce the "awareness" other empires have of you and raise your own of them? Or the option to just beam a bunch of data to them to raise their awareness and speed up contact? Possibly with misleading data to give them an Intel penalty on you for some amount of time?
I also think establishing communications should be an option, not automatic. Deciphering their language shouldn't _require_ you to actually establish formal diplomatic contact if they haven't deciphered yours. And even then, hostile relations could simply be formalized with a continuation of the war if one or both parties desired it.
It'd also be nice if you could actually destroy outposts during a contact war. Sometimes all you really want is to take an important chokepoint or colonizable planet, not to wipe them out completely. Maybe they could get a partial influence refund and/or retain a claim on the system?
Damn thats some high skill tactics. I will definitely try this
You can put your envoy on the first contract, but just not vlick to progress it, which helps a little bit with the oh crap response timing
Montu really hates Rock, Paper, Scissors, but he sure loves Tic, Tac, Toe ;)
Nice. Hope it still work like that - I want to try it!
I had a first contact war, I was the united nation of earth and they started the fight. and went hard as i could to deal as much damage as possible. but I was trying to make contact at the same time so the war didn't last just a couple space battles here and there, no permanent losses, that changed when I declared war on them for some of their solar systems.
The loop of what beats what at 7:07 needs an extra line between PD+Missile and Laser/Kinetic. If it's more than 3 (true rock paper scissors), then the results of what happens if you end up with stuff that isn't a direct counter can matter. (I assume that future videos will test mixed fleets as well?)
I feel like the chart is also just slightly wrong, at least based on personal tests. For some reason a 1-kinetic 2-laser / 1-shield 2-armor build beat every other early weapon combo I threw at it (makes sense against the PD ones at least), even beats the fabled 3-missile build, but that one was the closest. Unsure how it scales with numbers, only did 20v20 tests.
@@magicalchicken5667 it's important to do equal resource testing. Not just equal ships. I don't know the alloy cost of the different ones. But you want the fleets to have the same cost. There are some other things too like making sure they are in a neutral system when you do the fight.
Maybe Montu could make a video of how to do these kinds of tests because lots of people do them poorly.
@@MaxHaydenChiz Those weapons cost the same, cost isn't a factor here.
While we are not legally allowed to bomb them without their consent, we have interpreted the weird clicking noises they make when they burn as such.
The last MP tournament I think I saw had at least 1 pvp first contact war just to prevent early expansion.
The only time I tried this, I was about to invade their capital and then they made contact, it was pretty intense war. Since I left them weekend I eventually made them my vassal and integrated them out of spite for denying me their capital (this was pre overlord)
Is this the first Montu sponsor? Congrats man!
Church of Jeff, I love it!
There is one more ship design - flack + 2 lazers. Flack has big damage against shields.
Wow. Sounds good! I can see it even in late game:
Flack + S-Gauss swarm can eat up shields and then L-Plasma will eat up a face.
Hmm, I never really thought about doing that 🤔
But that's usually because I play on grand admiral with scaling to mid game and as I struggle to keep them away with starbases for a long time until I have superior fleets and use pre-ftl wars to only slow their expansion 😂
Somehow even though my ship is presented in the enemy capital system, the enemy starbase keep repairing and building ships during fight.
And there are a couple of stations too close to the star base, if attacked, the whole fleet will be drawn into the starbase.
Tic-tacs beat toes everyday in my book! 🤣
This is hilarious. I suggest shooting this idea over to Lathland and see what he can do with it. It would be so funny.
maaan. if only this would've come out 2 days sooner xD
Indeed, Jeff wills it !!!
You sir, are awesome.
Hey Montu. Are you going to be doing a fresh beginners guide to planets, economy, ships etc etc for the upcoming release of the "First Contact" expansion??
Hey! I have been following your channel recently because i started playing stellaris again after a break. I have a question: I recognize the term „dark forest“ from a book series „the three suns“, where it basically describes that the universe is a forest and species are Hunters trying to survive. Does this add up with „dark forest“ in stellaris? Or what does that mean in the game?
And to think. Autobuild seems to love loading my starbases and corvettes with mass mass drivers.
Montu's in the big leagues now he got the CoC sponsorship
I dig it. I don't start precontact wars, but there are plenty of hostile empires in my lineup. As soon as one attempts to hijack my ships, I send my fleet straight at him.
Where is that clip from in the beginning
I didn't know Clash of Clans still existed
I feel like the doomsday origin could make incredible use of this origin as your economy and thereby fleet in the early game should be superior to anything else and an easy war should make up for the lack of guaranteed worlds
How long until they program the ai to do this. That sounds like a nightmare
I think they won't, or only genocidal empire s
Certain types of AI like devouring swarms will already attack you pre-contact if they can. I don't know if they land assault armies or not, but I've been hit with fleets of unidentified corvettes that turn out to be a purifier type empire plenty of times.
didnt realize hearing montu call it tic tac toe instead of rock paper sicssors three separate times would bother me
Love all the Tic Tac Toe in this game.
I actually usually attack the very first empire I contact, didn’t know I could attack them before that.
Does anyone know what show is the footage at the beginning from? Thanks in advance.
Saw this and thought I’d try it out. First empire conquered - doomsday origin 😭
Where is that intro video from?
This...changes everything.....
Against missile ship... would it not be better to switch from 2shield1armor to 3armor? that way that shield pen bonus is negated
They list that first contact war achievement as very easy on the wiki. Still haven’t gotten it!
Whats the opening animation from?
YES YES
I swear I recognize that first few seconds of footage from some movie I saw a long time ago. Can anyone confirm? What was it called?
And then they complete the first contact as your assault force is landing :D
So use all four
Tbh next dlc/update they should do next is completely integrate 'real space mods' into the game the mechanics and features that the mod has would greatly improve the game
Dont people do 1/4 PD-Kinect-Laser + 3/4 Kinect-Laser-Laser vettes? Or similar?
Jeff wills it!
The hive is early
Why not use point defense, missile and laser?
I suppose you can easily role-play an explanation - the corvettes that destroyed the fleet and starbases are clearly some 'pirates' or some 'evil empire' - it's not like the civilian pops on the planet ever saw them up close. The invading armies? Anyone who saw them is dead.
But then comes the colony ship... and the colonists say they come from ANOTHER empire that saw what happened, dealt with the pirates, and now comes to help the local populace to rebuild after that terrifying war that just wiped out their previous government. They even offer humanitarian (xenoitarian?) help and all, doing their best to rebuild the broken civilization... (because it's profitable to do so, but who cares?)
No shout out to Kizzy? She does this stuff in almost every pvp lobby I see her in.
(Also, the is no end card for follow up video on my end)
It's tic-tac-toe with 4 pieces! 😆
I can’t ever bombard planets it always says protected by start base even after I destroy it
BRING ME MORE ART-DECO STYLE SHIPS PLEEAAAAAASSSEEEEEEEE!!!
I tried attacking a colonizing planet, the progress bar stopped but just stayed there, I couldnt get my fleet to bombard the planet anymore and it said the planet was under my control but still owned by the other empire, something about them surrendering? whats going on?
Does this work vs. very high difficulty AIs? I am trained on civilization, where they get multiple settlers and military units to start with, so you need some very special sauce to tackle them early.
Advanced AI, not really as they have multiple worlds. You can only force one world with pops to be lost. In this case the capital!
Difficulty won't have much of an effect though! Unless you can't beat Thier navy ofc
The combat mechanics mean a weaker fleet set up right can beat a stronger one.
There are "Advanced AI starts", if Montu tries it on one, he probably will have to do that diplomatic plan B.
In general with that Galaxy option on, you disable Advanced Neighbours, as otherwise you'll probably be road kill.
In Stellaris even pacifist empires start proposing vassalisation if they catch you with irresponsibly low fleet power. So you build alloy pile and build fleet during the contact phase to avoid misunderstandings 😁😁
I would say turn off advanced start, it makes the game much better (I also put random placement instead of next to you to make it interesting but that’s just me)
10:51 It's they're own fault too, for being on our planet before we got there.
I can say from recent experince that this strategy doesn't easily work. The problem is stopping a planet from colonising, when I tried to stop a planet with 8 missile corvettes all it did was slightly slow down the inevitable and if you take their capital while colonising they don't get killed off and it appears their planet automatically finishes colonising
I’m excited about your Clash sponsorship. Getting paid to promote something that isn’t garbage is rare.
I'm pretty clueless with the diplomatic side of things as well as wars
Congrats on the clash of clans sponsorship!
I play way too peacefully in the game now ever since the update that brought envoys, I would have never used this
I think you mean “Rock, Paper, Scissors” 😊
Wish they would allow for first contact wars to continue, although i suppose it's a question of which casus belli it would be, as you have no claims on the alien race, but its still annoying. Although i love the ad style montu, getting into the big leagues!
i like to pre contact war with post apocalyptic origin and bombard them to a tomb world. very funny.
lol and I wondered why multiplayer servers so often ban precontact invasion
ep3o was also sponsored by CoC right?
The secret message around 5 min 30 sec is glorious. 😂❤
“Oh my goodness me that’s sexy” to having 69 pop is just perfect
What's the film at the beginning? I remember seeing it as a kid
I think its called Battle for Terra.
If memory serves me right, that's "Battle for Terra" quite an old one but a good one
@@OceanSpirit881i remember now! The one were the humans are the bad guys, Truth?
@@martinromerostrack9138 yes, but they are in a pretty dire situation. Compared to the humans in avatar, they are not so petty evil
For the bloody algorithm
this seems like a pipe dream against grand admiral ai lol
Just bring in a mix of ships 3 of each so multiples of 3.
jeff!!!
I think somebody might have been playing Star Control Origins at some point in the past..
I can certainly appreciate a content creator who can laugh at themselves, leaning into an "oops" because it was funny rather than doing it again to make the video "perfect".
Mistakes? I would never!
I do Flak + 2 Lasers for my early corvette.
The Flak is still decent against missiles, however unlike Point Defense it has 50% Tracking, so it also does decent damage against the corvettes themselves.
Lasers are better than Kinetic, as Montu pointed out. Anti-shield is already covered by the Flak, so you can safely opt to use the other two slots for anti-armor & hull Lasers.
Bold of you to assume that it takes shorter than 30 days for your ships to show up after an retreat.