Probably something of an exploit, but you can always replace the defence grid super computer with a disruption field generator after you build the defence platforms out to max. Defence platforms above the capacity aren't automatically destroyed, so it would just mean an extra couple hundred alloys after each battle where you took losses to swap the module back & forth
@@rory8182 yea, it's something I regularly do in any turtle-y single player campaigns. The views of MP groups on whether or not it is an exploit (at least one severe enough to be banned) varies, in my experience
Pulsars make for excellent choke points. Sure, you can't design an armor-only starbase to take full advantage, but the AI doesn't consider the complete loss of its own shields when comparing combat power and deciding whether to attack. Combine that with the fact that you can design defense platforms which are armored and have solely anti-armor weapons, and that starbase will chew through enemy fleets.
Good luck with that rng, in however many hundreds of playthroughs I've gotten maybe one pulsar chokepoint? They always seem to spawn one off from a choke and gets easily bypassed.
Pulsars(antiarmor focus), black holes(range focus), nebulas(fleet camping) and multiplanetary systems(habitats with and orbitals with FTL inhibitors) are all usefull checkpoints in their own way. You just need to adapt to each one. Takes time and knowhow, but usually pays back.
I really wish the starbases in shield negating systems would reflect that with their equipment. It just doesn't make sense in gameplay or realism that a fortification would have half its equipment be not suitable for the environment.
Yesterday I had a game where the Pulsar wasn't precisely a choke point, but I funneled the enemy into it anyways. I could only afford one decent fleet in my early game so I parked it at the "not a pulsar" system on our two shared border systems. AI dutifully ran their corvette swarms to their deaths 3 times at that Pulsar system with it's special crafted defence platforms
I used to almost always build resource silos on my starbases. But after they buffed how much capacity it gives you it went from "nice to have" to "must-have". Feels great having such a large alloy stockpile late-game to rebuild several fleets at once xD I really wish we could design the starbase weapon/defense loadouts :/
Honestly its something we should have had LONG ago when they changed the game from placeable defense platforms, fortresses and citadels into starbase based platforms. Especially when you consider there are system types that nullify shields yet will still apply shield based weapons on the starbase because..... reasons??
@@cyanide7270 yeah i remember the version 1 the defence platforms used to be part of the starbase i acutally liked that alot more. losing 15 defence platform and have to wait for 900 days to rebuild them is just silly (450 if you use the late game edict)
@@sunso1991 yknow whatd also be a nice QoL change? An autobuild toggle so they just replace lost platforms automatically with the same design. Obviously you wouldnt toggle it unless you had the economy for it, but itd just be nice to not have to manually rebuild over and over and over again
Finally, a comprehensive guide to starbases. When i started to learn the game from your videos, i was always missing the explaination for war-type starbase designs. Every guide video i watched had different view on them which made me very confused back then.
Not really comprehensive. The whole trade station aspect is missing (hubs, OTCs, registrars). Especially newer players often fail to grasp how trade in space works, how it is collected and/or routed via starbases (and later gateways) to your capital, and how you can prevent piracy entirely by chaining starbases in adjacent systems (trade then only jumps from starbase to starbase) with a dedicated trade station at the end of each such chain to cover and collect more trade in remote regions of your space.
@@berlindude75 i didnt notice since i dont like playing trade but montu has covered the trade aspect in another video. I think it was in one of the beginner guides.
about the anchorage, I wouldn't necessarily agree on that: a solider gives you 6 naval capacity as well as the anchorage (plus 1.5 unity). this slot could also be filled up by a solar panel for 8.1 energy (in the following i will assume that the energy tech as well as prosperity and unyielding is finished) . however a pop in mid to late game will produce 30-42 (with capacity subsidies, robots, dependend on what level your leader is and wether you got a machine world, orbital ring) energy, meaning you get 3 armies for min 22 energy. These three armies are about as good as two battle frame armies, costing 4 upkeep total, meaning you get 18 energy more and slightly superior armies that you also can use offensively while only loosing 1.5 unity if you have the unyielding tree. So if you want to build economical stations, i would say the most economical are the anchorages provided you need the naval capacity.
important to not is that the defense armies are defined as armies that defend the planet, meaning that assault armies landed on your own planet will also benefit from defensive modifiers from e.g. Fortress World or the unyielding tree
@@BogusAmogusss but planet position is determined by rng, and sacrificing what could be a top notch foundry world for soldiers, or investing thousands into a Fortress habitat is rather painful. Wouldn't it be better to keep your planets as economic powerhouses, your starbases for high Fleet cap and then spend your alloys on fleets to dissuade and defend?
@@mariomario-dy1kc thats about the point. Ive included solider upkeep to show that even if you want them, using pops for energy credits is more efficient.
@@mariomario-dy1kc But then you bet everything on one encounter. While with fortress world you just win time (and you could win a LOT of time with huge fortress world if you queue armies just before launch) and rebuild. So enemy would either risk losing due to jump drive debuff or wait till armies die.
So are you accounting for the amount of star base's you would need to equal the amount unit copasity a single planet could generate? Cos iirc a star base gives you 36 unit copasity max, 6 each anchorage, where as a planet gives 24 per Fortress as you say 6UC per soldier, with 15 slots that's 360UC for one planet so you'd literally need 10 star base's to equal one planet.
8:31 that's because tier 4 and 5 of weapons/shields require advanced resources(gas,dust,crystals), and not just technology, but some in the stockpile. Otherwise, you'll be stuck with tier 3 unless you downgrade your base and start upgrading again. (Don't remember if upgrading starbase after you got resources will change weapons to higher tier tho)
Yes, sorry I didn't make that point in this video. I was trying to really drive home the important need to check and keep track of the weapons on your starbases, as the modules might provide less powerful weapons than your best
@@MontuPlays You didn't really talk about any of the defence platform set ups? O assime once you get ion cannons you just get those but what about the mid and early game?
One of the best things about Hangar Bays is that they have double the Piracy Suppression of the three offensive starbase modules without sacrificing any of the other stats they give, so there really is no reason not to use them over Missile Batteries or Gun Batteries, all things being equal.
I think the point of naval starbase is to make pop free naval capacity. Trading alloys for that instead. Since pops could be used for research instead.
If be interested in a video on defeating 5x or 25x crisis fleets. I once played against 25x and found the -20% shield debut was utterly useless, because it meant the crisis fleets had 24.8x shields rather than 25x shields (or whatever the precise numbers are).
Is that how the calculation is performed? I thought it would take their total shield, and then reduce it by 20% of that. Meaning instead of say 10,000 Shields it would have 8,000.
@@Ranto294 really depends on how they calculate it/where they apply it in the formula, it could be -20% of 2500% so it's 2000% Bonus shields. Or any of the others mentioned.
I noticed that fortified stations are a tool of niche. Its pointless to build fortified stations if you have to move wars, but it could represent a kind to deterrence in case you want to delay attacks or postpone specific conflicts with some neighhboors to just make a war at the time. By rotating the specialization of these stations you can easily turn a fortified station to a shipyard to support your advance deep inside enemy territory. Once conquest is done, the same station can again be turned into a trade hub in order to gather energy by trade. That its not bad in the great picture. Or eventually, if there are no colonies around, you can still repurpose the station for support your naval capacity. It depends to what you want to do in that specific moment.
Thing about anchorages is that they're really the only reliably useful thing for that slot, especially for non-gestalts. Everything else is extremely situational. Shipyards? Well, you really only need one or two dedicated shipyard starbases, and I like to keep that at the capital for a number of reasons. You don't need to have them on every base. In fact, it's not recommended you do for a number of reasons (not the least of which is Naval Academy synergy) Solar Panels? Only Gestalts get those. Gun/Missile/Hangar Bays: Really only useful on Chokepoints, and even then, very questionably so. There is absolutely no reason to slap these onto every starbase. On top of that, only the hanger one is of any real use, and on top of that, is really only useful as backup for your DPs and Fleets. Trade Hub: Up until you get gateways, you'll really only want ONE dedicated trade hub close to your capital collecting trade, you don't want long trade routes because then you get pirates, and pirates are ultra annoying. Also, I really don't put much stock into fortress worlds, because 1st of all it's a complete waste of pops that could be doing far more productive tasks, and 2ndly, due to the way ground warfare works, Fortress worlds are more annoyance than an actual obstacle. if it comes to ground warfare and the enemy invades, unless the enemy is being REALLY stupid about it, you're pretty much screwed no matter how many soldiers you have on a planet.
8:40 You're definitely missing something here. All my starbases use Tier 5 (or the highest available tier) weapons on respective modules. They are NOT limited to only Tier 3.
He's just saying to keep an eye on your weapons tech level here when choosing the module because tier 3 cannons/lasers are only middling while tier 3 fighters are the best of that tech line.
He said he had access to all of the available technology in the game but for some reason he seems to only be getting tier 3 weapons. I am also seeing tier 5 weapons on my star base. I have no out of date weapons, armor, or shields.
8:58 I believe he is talking about how tier 3 hanger bay is the max level, while tier 3 gun battery isn’t. So you need to check your defense platforms to make sure they “auto updating” or that you go in and manually update your platforms to the highest grade. And if you do have “auto update and auto fill” to make sure that the game actually puts in the best weapons in the slots because otherwise sometimes you’ll uncheck a box or two and end up with less tier guns and not realize your platforms aren’t selecting the preferred guns. I’m pretty sure that he knows that tier 5 is the highest for most guns, armor and shields, lol. I also believe, with what he was talking about wasn’t necessarily being illustrated or demonstrated on screen at that point in time. So it looked confusing.
@@LCInfantry I see what they meant, back around 8:24 or so he says that even with all the right tech available the game borked a bit and only had tier 3 guns on the station itself. Still the point he's trying to make remains the same, keep an eye on what's being put on your stuff automatically and adjust or fix accordingly.
early game starbases equipped with hangar bays is a double edged sword, because AI will either challenge it or keep away (since with hangar bays you can easily match their firepower if not possible to defend with corvettes or destroyers) but if they challenge you are probably dead since AI corvettes mostly contain Point-defense design.
AI corvettes are just randomly designed but never seem to have missiles. They definitely don't always have point defense as otherwise they'd always win if you went up against them with missile corvettes. You can also check the battle summary to see what weapons were used, and most of the time in my experience they just run interceptor corvettes.
I wish we could design the starbase modules like platforms. that would open up alot of interesting choke point applications i also wish we got like double the amount of ship sections in the unmodded games. would be cool to have battlecruisers with all Medium and small weapons like a space disco ball. battlecruiser with 12 missile bays, or destroyer with a single carrier bay plus some point defence slots
Great content as always! I think that to use upper tier (4 or 5) weapons, you need to have a positive net on the rare resources in your empire, just a complement.
Yes, i failed to mention why they were stuck at tier 3. The important point I was trying to make is that you need to check the actual weapons that end up on your starbase, not assume they are amazing
The tier of the starbase seems to be part of the reason for having lower tier weapons. I noticed that the weapons were being upgraded as I upgraded the starbase itself.
Hey Montu! So yesterday I noticed something about defense platforms that I don't remember you mentioning in your video. If you have a level 3 Bulwark subject you can get -75% build cost and -75% build time for your defense platforms! For me that was 80 alloys for each platform and only 60 days to build!! Absolutely insane!
In my experience, the most important part is engagement and weapons range, especially in larger systems like Terminal Egress. Pretty much anything that means the enemy fleet has to move a long way towards your starbase while being in attack range (Target Uplink, Com Jammer, defense stations with hangar/kinetic artillery/neutron launchers, ion cannons). The AI and fleet strength calculation doesn't really seem to take that into account, which results in the AI wasting a lot of fleets on that system instead of simply ignoring the system. My Terminal Egress defense was able to destroy fleets with up to 4x its fleet power without taking loses. It was just satisfying to watch 400k prethoryn fleets getting obliterated over and over.
@@deanwilliams433 just make the game last 25-50 years longer and focus on getting a stronger base economy early then auto research later, sure you won't ever truly decimate something but then again you can always find a way to fight back.
Montu, I think the weapons the game puts on starbases is a bit more complicated than we think which is making the second half of this video incorrect. The starbase details you show don't look like the ones I'm getting in my save files so I did some testing myself and found some weird stuff. First, your max tech starbase examples are capped at tier 3 weapons, but in all of the multiplayer saves I've been playing with my friends the weapons on my starbases are equal to the tier of my best weapon tech. Ex: when I loaded the save they were tier 4 and when I used the console to get all tech the weapons upgraded to max tier. But when I created a new game, console commands to get all tech, instant build, etc., my starbases capped out at tier 3 like yours. My current theory is that starbase weapons are capped before mid-game starts or something relating to the game year. Second, I believe the weapons put on by the Gun Battery module are influenced by ethics. One of the save files I loaded was Fanatical Spiritualist and Gun Batteries would only add mass drivers to the starbase, even in a pulsar system. I was previously under the assumption that pulsar starbases only used energy weapons because on other saves I've looked at pulsar bastions and saw only energy weapons which makes sense because ships will have no shields there. I've heard that the AI ship's weapons are based on ethics so the auto-design of the starbase may work the same way. In your example I believe you are playing Gestalt Consciousness which is why your starbase has 50/50 kinetic to energy weapons ratio. I haven't thorough tested any of this, but I think it's worth looking into.
I really like adding the listening posts on my border star bases to give me a bit more heads up with incoming troops. They fall off soon after though after you get more vision
I build anchorage stations over habitated systems, the Deep Space Black site and Transit hub are wonderful for your economy. The +5 stability and 100% resettlement chance will boost production by 2.5%(Per planet/hab in system) and help get pops where they need to be and save the time and cost of doing it manually. The Transite hub also allows slaves and robots/droids to move from that system so it can save you a building slot on planet from building the Slave Processing Building. Also while you definitely get more from fortress worlds/habs, that requires population you may not have. In the early game Anchorages are the easiest access to naval cap aside from tech, you need every pop to be producing resources as going over naval cap in the early game is less serious but it isn't negligible.I do not start building fortress worlds/habs till the mid game when I start building battleship fleets. Also one thing to note if you are playing a Trade empire, Hangar bays DOUBLE the trade protection of guns/missiles, a Hangar bay Bastion gives +60 protection vs +30. Shield and armor tech also affects your stations, even if you don't plan on using armor for your ships(crystal hull) it gives your stations that much more that the enemy has to chew through. Stations will also use DRAGON SCALE armor if you manage to get it, at no extra cost.
Lol idk how you're doing this, but whenever I'm starting to "look closer" on something in Stellaris, in 1-2 weeks you send a new video about this topic xD
Not long just started playing the game and buying DLC, my last 2-3 games i only just settled on how I'm going to build defence platforms and star base's, now from this and last video I'm going to have to rethink it a little.
Strike Craft Spam! I always load my Star Bases with Strike Craft since I usually place Defense Platforms anyways which can actually be improved and edited with different weapons unlike the Star Base weapons. Plus their ability to ignore shields and chew off armor makes it easier for your defense to take out what ever is left of the enemy ships. And if they have no armor? Well, then that 100% shield penetration means they will just attack the hull directly.
Also another fun thing about starbases. Starbase bonuses apply to the system, not just the starbase. Juggernauts are both ships and starbases (closer to mobile starbases really). One particular bonus with a starbase is +armour (up to 20k dependent on level), and +10% armour/hull per module, depending on modules. Abusing this, you can park a juggernaut on a maxed out citadel, and get +60% armour/hp from weapons modules, add in the +large percentages from traditions/perks, and you have a nigh impossible to kill juggernaut in a system with massive armour, and gargantuan hull points.
To get higher than tier 3 weapons on your starbases, I find that producing enough of that resource normally makes them update. Not buying through trade, only producing I found works
These Starbase designs would certainly be useful as I can combine this with a Void dwellers origins. Focusing on securing strategic chocke points while also boosting my Research to astronomical levels and investing my resources to boost the economy. An ideal method for those who don't have the means to manage wide spans of the galaxy or for those who wish to boast their prowess while possessing a small piece of the Galactic pie
I always built 2 Missile 2 Kinetic and 2 Hanger modules on my citadel starbases, but I might just start doing 1 Missile and 1 Kinetic with 4 Hanger Modules and I’ll fill the rest of the defense platforms with Neutron Launchers
i will forever hate that we cannot design our starbases... ¿¿why?? are you telling me that i am the god emperor of mankind, i can design every individual freaking corvette, but the starbases that hold the eye of terror at bay are left to chance?? nonsense i tell you!
I think you also forgot to mention that the techs that increase food, energy and minerals from jobs also applies to starbases meaning you can get around 12 energy per solar network and probably around 16 food from hydrophobic bay and is powerful for early game especially if you go heavy tech as machines
Station build Al needs an update badly, if only to stop them building shields and anti-shield weapons in pulsar systems. Amazed this is still in the game after all these years.
As a gestalt consciousness that food production is always great for trading with other empires. They tend to value it highly early game and it's real easy for me to trade it away for something more valuable.
it is also great as a deficit reserve i also play mainly Gestalt, and that giant stockpile of food gets sold into energy to avoid shortage sometimes is critical especially in long wars where i often switch production to focus on alloy to rebuild fleet loss
It does seem kind of weird that the weapons cap at tier 3. Starbases are so much bigger than ships, so you'd think it could support more the same level of weaponry as them. Regardless, I always do a full loadout of strikecraft and supplement with defense platforms and ion cannons.
So, AFAIK its about having a net positive income for the rare resources to get the higher tier weapons on a starbase. I was mainly trying to highlight the need check the actual weapons that each module adds to your starbase
Montu, any sort of "Don't build anchorages" take is a take so hot that it could melt through neutronium armor. I don't think I could disagree harder. It's not an either-or prospect. Anchorages give fleet capacity for module slots. Fortresses give fleet capacity for pops and building slots. Pops are a far more versatile and powerful resource than module slots, but neither prevents the other. An empire with both will have more than an empire with just one or the other. An infinite supply of shipyards doesn't do anything and you don't need nor want a fully built out defensive starbase everywhere (that's expensive). Trade hubs barely pay for their own existence unless you're actually grabbing trade, and not just a 2 trade node you could have built an anchorage on *anyway*. More ships is good. Anchorages can give you more ships.
Well I think it's more about weighing up how much fleet cap you get from either option. 36 max from a anchorage star base, where as a fortress world gives 360 max, so you'd need 10× the number of star base's. Obviously anchorages aren't completely useless, early game required imo, but late game the bang for your buck just isn't there when you've got a single fleet taking up hundreds of fleet cap.
@@BAGELMENSK Fleet cap is just a number. Higher fleet cap means you can go even further off the same economy. Just because you can go past it doesn't mean you don't want more of it.
@@Willow4526 A single anchorage costs 50 alloys at most. On par with the cost of other starbase modules. Six of them is 300. You're gonna want to build to starbase max for the buildings anyway, and leaving those slots barren is a waste of a perfectly good 6 slots. Of course fortress worlds with tons of pops give more. You're consuming pops to get ships. Mind you, you get a LOT of ships from them, so it's totally worth it. But it is REALLY not hard to dedicate 8-10 starbases to anchorages as well as that fortress world and now you have 720 fleet cap instead of 360 fleet cap from constructions. Both is good. Don't disregard fortress worlds for anchorages. Don't disregard anchorages for fortress worlds. Build both, so you have more fleet cap, then go over fleet cap anyway because the penalty is based on how far over you go.
Don't build is a bit stronger than the message i want to send. "They are the worst use for a starbase module" at certain ponts in the game is my opinion here. 36 naval cap for a starbase slot is a low trade.
I get that from a statistic point of view strikecraft are only good against corvette on a starbase. But i have always found that strikecraft starbases perform better overall even against bigger ships. (had mine hold of the khan at max lvl and wasnt even completely done)
I really hope Star bases get an upgrade, so eventually they have large slot weapons, it’s kinda crappy that their entire ability to defend themselves late game is from defence platforms.
I think the dev team should adopt something similar to the NSC mod with their extra levels of starbases. It made it a contender for actual system defense without fleet and without being utterly invulnerable. In addition I think it'd be cool if the ship designer had leveled starbase design in it.
I've used a mod for ages that gives anyone solar arrays because in what world would normally people not think hey solar panels in space, what an awesome idea. 🙂 seriously though thanks for this video, it gives stuff to think about when using the large numbef of extra Starbases it seems i habd by the endgame! As always your videos are helpful like that 🙂
Unfortunately, hangar bays are no longer the ultímate answer to corvettes. On my most recent run in GA as an inward perfection empire, I rushed starholds and hangar bays, but my enemy, an honorbound warrior, who only deployed corvettes, defeated my Starbase with equal fleetpower because they specced for point defense corvettes, leading strike craft to be shut down without dealing damage and barely any enemy losses. I would recommend mixing hangar bays with gun modules in case the AI gets cheeky in the early game.
3:23 I am shocked at the weird claim here about Anchorages. It is a fact that anchorages are the most optimal way to get naval cap mid to lategame, as there is nothing else to do with those slots! Sure you can get soldiers and fortresses, BUT the pops have unlimited scaling when employed as workers compared to having them as soldiers where they have almost zero scaling since planetary fighting is so less of a factor. Why waste a pop which can produce 30-40 Energy Credits to generate just 6 naval cap? For a defensive chockpoint it's fine, BUT with hyperjumps the enemy can always bypass it :).
Void Dwellers and civilizations making heavy use of habitats will want to take a different approach to central economic starbases, imo. Transit Hubs (100% automatic resettlement chance) and Deep Space Black Sites (+5 stability and 25% governing ethics attraction) provide good bonuses to a system with a settled planet. But that value scales upwards with every additional settled world or habitat in that system. As a Void Dweller, or any civilization that plans on making heavy use of habitats, it's highly beneficial to consolidate your habitats wherever possible, to maximize the value of your economic starbases. For those players, the setup I find most effecient is Trade Hub x5, Hanger Bay x1 with Hydroponics Bay, Transit Bay, Deep Space Black Site, and Offworld Trading Company. The +10 trade protection of the hanger bay has always proved sufficient, while the 20 trade value will more than pay for the credit upkeep of the citadel and all modules. For defensive citadels at chokepoints, I 100% agree with picks Montu made. Great to know the bonuses are confirmed to stack with the Titan auras, too.
The game uses far too many shield modules, it causes the starbase to not have enough power for higher tier components, when it would've been more optimal to go for 50/50 shield/armor split, which could actually result in more shield hit points from fewer higher tier shields.
I dislike service umbilicals because at some point I'm gonna want to move the fleet at which point the balance of my economy might destabilize. I'd rather have a more constant, more reliable energy income even if that number is lower.
For the economic starbases, why is the anchorage module not considered good? They give 4 naval capacity per module slot, 6 if you have the logistics office. If you compare that to say, the solar panels, you're trading off 4 capacity for 6 energy. Unless you've got one or more of the civics or traditions which boost soldier production, this is more naval capacity than an entire pop gives in dedicated production towards that. On the other hand, a technician can produce a hell of a lot more than 6 energy.
I think it is more related to fact that Fortress world VS Anchorage starbase is very different story in how to conquer them. Fortress world must be conquered or bombarded for FTL jammer to stop working but fortresses themselves are last to fall to bombardment and you can stack anti bombardment buildings like planetary shield and Unyielding to make it so that you basically need to crack the planet to proceed making conquest very slow process meanwhile Anchorage starbases get instantly popped and allow enemy to flow into your core worlds So Combat capable starbase and fortress world is a good combo while Anchorage starbase and generator world isn't when you weight in which one you would put your fleet in for combat Doesn't mean Anchorage bases aren't worth it just means that putting a choke point has more chances of being utilized in a war vs the points Anchorage provides so you have to weight in pros and cons of having starbase support VS having few more ships in the fleet
Not quite, on the historical model. The purpose of a castle was a fortified seat of a lord, so the point was to exert control over the local area ( usually full of a foriegn population). But then governments have changed so much since then, that unless people ( or crazies like me) make a deliberate effort to understand something that really has no practical effect, no one's gonna know
Maybe its the space battles mod im using but my starbases equip themselves with the best laser and guns all up to their Max Level like gauss Canons and so on
Personally I think that starbase's should be a little more powerful. Cause honestly by late game, even even early game just a decently sized fleet and cruise through any military based starbase.
Okay, what? Only tier-3 weapons are allowed? It's bizzare. Like, T3 hangars are basically on the same power level as T5 kinetics/lasers iirc but in-game logic doesn't think so. Also, why the hell missile launchers still stay T1 despite everything else being at least somewhat upgraded? I'm never even mentioning shields. Thank you Paradox, have a nice day. P.S. Which module adds Disintegrator thingie to the base and have you tried to get T6/7 defense? (psi/dark matter shields and dragon scales) If you did, did it change behavior or not?
If only it was that simple... Basically, the system works very poorly. It will automatically select weapons the same way it does with ships. So all weapons with a strategic resource (SR) upkeep will only be selected if you have a positive income of said SR when choosing the weapons. It doesn't care about the fact that you will never actually need to pay the SR upkeep for starbase components. Then there is also the issue of power. When adding too many defensive modules, you can end up with so many weapons that the starbase won't have enough power for them all, and it will downgrade some weapons/shields. It can also happen if you have too many shields, which is determined by the "personality" of your empire, which you can't change. T6/7 defense have the same issues, but because T7 defense components are not considered direct upgrades of T6 defenses, they can sometimes not be used at all, or only partially, even if you have a positive SR income and enough energy. Before, even T6 defenses had that bug. And that's only what I know.
@@Mcgan99 Woah. Thank you for explanation. So, you're saying that if Monti hypothetically had there a proficit of SR he would actually get higher tier weapons? Sounds stupid as hell but alright I get why they did that - I guess it would require quite a bit of coding and overhauling of auto-generator just to improve it for starbases (although it would have been really desirable outcome). But why not give Starbases more power then? It wouldn't make them OP because they would still be restricted by the amount of modules. Or maybe each attacking module would come with reactor booster or something to accommodate for energy requirements. BTW, why not exchange some of the shields for armour but make what's left higher tier? Isn't it what autogenerator does for ships? This whole system is just not particularly reasonable sometimes to say the least
@@VasiliyOgniov Yes, at least that's how it worked last time I tested, and I am not aware of any change since then. The power issue appeared when they added the Juggernaut: it uses the same reactor as Starbases (for some reason) and they decided to reduce its energy capacity to fit that ship. I know that some people made mods which add a new reactor line specifically for juggernauts and restore the original energy capacity of starbases. No idea why we still need a mod for that, I'm pretty sure everyone agrees this should be in the base game. As for your last point, I believe the auto-generator for ships is the same for all ships. Technically, starbases are classified as ships, so they use the same rules. That's part of the problem. For example, starbases can't move to another system, so they shouldn't automatically get shields in a pulsar system. But they do, and we can't do anything about it. The split for hull, armor and shield modules by the auto-gen is decided by "empire personality", which is dependent on authority, ethics, civics, species traits... For example, Rogue servitors will have 0% on hull, 40% on armor and 60% on shields. Devouring Swarms will have have 40% on hull, 20% on armor and 40% on shields... so ~33% on armor and ~67% on shields if they don't have access to any hull boosting module. You can see more about that there: stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/AI_personalities
+ Василий Огнёв No module can add extra disruptors, though they are automatically added to all upgraded starbases, assuming you've researched the tech. I've no idea what would happen if you avoided acquiring disruptors for the entire game, or at which upgrade stage they start being added. All starbases (and outposts) automatically upgrade to the best armour/shield tiers, but I'm reasonably certain they will never add crystal plating etc... I think.
Dont agree with your economy setup, Check the map and see where there is lots of space trade still unused ( ring symbols ) that pick a strategic safe system, and build a starbase with 4 or 5 trade hubs, hyperlane registar and offworld trading comp, you can fill in the other slots as you wish, placed correctly between your colonized worlds and available unused space trade your economy gets a massive boost.
Tiny thing I've thought about for a long time. Starbases should be able to equip "Scout Wing" hangar modules from the getgo (like cruisers/battleships if you never researched strike craft). Also not looking at the game right now. But did you not have any sources of crystals/motes in the game while showing that the starbase was stuck at tier 3 weapons. As I'm pretty sure I've seen higher tier gun modules before (Though I rarely actually look at starbase equipment, and that may have been a modded game)
Yes, you can get higher tier weapons on your starbase. I was trying to highlight the issue that you cant assume your best tech will automatically end up on a starbase
@@MontuPlays Suddently hit with at thought then. If you did "Research_all_technologies" for this video, you should have gotten the rare resource techs, but obviously not a supply. I wonder. If the player gets a supply of motes or whatever, and all their starbases upgrade. Then they run out of motes/lose their supply... Do the starbases downgrade?
Great video as always. Just one question, does someone know which tech is needed to produce exotic gas with a nebula rafinery (mentioned at 2:23) ? Just did game where I secured 6 starbases with nebula early, hoping to swim in exotic gas ... and 70 years into the game still no gas income !
Hello Montu Plays. I wanted to ask if, despite the young age of the video here, you plan to make an actual video of it regarding the "First Contact" DLC. In my rounds, both in single player and in multiplayer, I keep asking myself whether the tracking posts are worthwhile or not and if so, where is the best place to put them, because if I put them at the front, they can be switched off quickly in the event of war. Best regards
not sure why the AI always spams a bunch of anchorages, I always end up way over my starbase cap with a huge fleet cap every time I take another empire
Is there way to actually have useful defensive starbase in lategame? I usually just ignore military starbases as it is irrelevant and does nothing. All fighting is done by ships and military starbase is not even bump on the road, they are so weak that they literally do nothing.
I think depends. It would require you to be deep into starbase repetable tech, which I think is a bit of a waste as repeteable tech is better suited for your fleets.
Probably something of an exploit, but you can always replace the defence grid super computer with a disruption field generator after you build the defence platforms out to max. Defence platforms above the capacity aren't automatically destroyed, so it would just mean an extra couple hundred alloys after each battle where you took losses to swap the module back & forth
Absolutely brilliant my dude
Exploit? Yes absolutely
Reasonable? Yes of course
Nice. We love exploits.
@@rory8182 yea, it's something I regularly do in any turtle-y single player campaigns. The views of MP groups on whether or not it is an exploit (at least one severe enough to be banned) varies, in my experience
This comment 👏👏👏
Pulsars make for excellent choke points. Sure, you can't design an armor-only starbase to take full advantage, but the AI doesn't consider the complete loss of its own shields when comparing combat power and deciding whether to attack. Combine that with the fact that you can design defense platforms which are armored and have solely anti-armor weapons, and that starbase will chew through enemy fleets.
Good luck with that rng, in however many hundreds of playthroughs I've gotten maybe one pulsar chokepoint? They always seem to spawn one off from a choke and gets easily bypassed.
Pulsars(antiarmor focus), black holes(range focus), nebulas(fleet camping) and multiplanetary systems(habitats with and orbitals with FTL inhibitors) are all usefull checkpoints in their own way. You just need to adapt to each one. Takes time and knowhow, but usually pays back.
I really wish the starbases in shield negating systems would reflect that with their equipment. It just doesn't make sense in gameplay or realism that a fortification would have half its equipment be not suitable for the environment.
@@iRedEarth This my starbase even went for like 60% shield i just wanted to cry.
Yesterday I had a game where the Pulsar wasn't precisely a choke point, but I funneled the enemy into it anyways. I could only afford one decent fleet in my early game so I parked it at the "not a pulsar" system on our two shared border systems. AI dutifully ran their corvette swarms to their deaths 3 times at that Pulsar system with it's special crafted defence platforms
Despite having close to 1000 hours in Stellaris, I ALWAYS learn something new from your videos. Amazing.
I hope you enjoy them too!
It's a huge game, i have almost 7k hours played, and I can still learn , especially with the changes, thx montu good vids
I used to almost always build resource silos on my starbases. But after they buffed how much capacity it gives you it went from "nice to have" to "must-have". Feels great having such a large alloy stockpile late-game to rebuild several fleets at once xD
I really wish we could design the starbase weapon/defense loadouts :/
Honestly its something we should have had LONG ago when they changed the game from placeable defense platforms, fortresses and citadels into starbase based platforms. Especially when you consider there are system types that nullify shields yet will still apply shield based weapons on the starbase because..... reasons??
@@cyanide7270 yeah i remember the version 1
the defence platforms used to be part of the starbase
i acutally liked that alot more.
losing 15 defence platform and have to wait for 900 days to rebuild them is just silly (450 if you use the late game edict)
@@sunso1991 yknow whatd also be a nice QoL change? An autobuild toggle so they just replace lost platforms automatically with the same design. Obviously you wouldnt toggle it unless you had the economy for it, but itd just be nice to not have to manually rebuild over and over and over again
Finally, a comprehensive guide to starbases.
When i started to learn the game from your videos, i was always missing the explaination for war-type starbase designs.
Every guide video i watched had different view on them which made me very confused back then.
I hope this helps!
Not really comprehensive. The whole trade station aspect is missing (hubs, OTCs, registrars). Especially newer players often fail to grasp how trade in space works, how it is collected and/or routed via starbases (and later gateways) to your capital, and how you can prevent piracy entirely by chaining starbases in adjacent systems (trade then only jumps from starbase to starbase) with a dedicated trade station at the end of each such chain to cover and collect more trade in remote regions of your space.
@@berlindude75 i didnt notice since i dont like playing trade but montu has covered the trade aspect in another video. I think it was in one of the beginner guides.
Glad to know I'm not the only one what thinks of DS9 and Trek in general when playing Stellaris
about the anchorage, I wouldn't necessarily agree on that:
a solider gives you 6 naval capacity as well as the anchorage (plus 1.5 unity). this slot could also be filled up by a solar panel for 8.1 energy (in the following i will assume that the energy tech as well as prosperity and unyielding is finished) .
however a pop in mid to late game will produce 30-42 (with capacity subsidies, robots, dependend on what level your leader is and wether you got a machine world, orbital ring) energy, meaning you get 3 armies for min 22 energy. These three armies are about as good as two battle frame armies, costing 4 upkeep total, meaning you get 18 energy more and slightly superior armies that you also can use offensively while only loosing 1.5 unity if you have the unyielding tree. So if you want to build economical stations, i would say the most economical are the anchorages provided you need the naval capacity.
important to not is that the defense armies are defined as armies that defend the planet, meaning that assault armies landed on your own planet will also benefit from defensive modifiers from e.g. Fortress World or the unyielding tree
@@BogusAmogusss but planet position is determined by rng, and sacrificing what could be a top notch foundry world for soldiers, or investing thousands into a Fortress habitat is rather painful.
Wouldn't it be better to keep your planets as economic powerhouses, your starbases for high Fleet cap and then spend your alloys on fleets to dissuade and defend?
@@mariomario-dy1kc thats about the point. Ive included solider upkeep to show that even if you want them, using pops for energy credits is more efficient.
@@mariomario-dy1kc But then you bet everything on one encounter. While with fortress world you just win time (and you could win a LOT of time with huge fortress world if you queue armies just before launch) and rebuild. So enemy would either risk losing due to jump drive debuff or wait till armies die.
So are you accounting for the amount of star base's you would need to equal the amount unit copasity a single planet could generate? Cos iirc a star base gives you 36 unit copasity max, 6 each anchorage, where as a planet gives 24 per Fortress as you say 6UC per soldier, with 15 slots that's 360UC for one planet so you'd literally need 10 star base's to equal one planet.
8:31 that's because tier 4 and 5 of weapons/shields require advanced resources(gas,dust,crystals), and not just technology, but some in the stockpile. Otherwise, you'll be stuck with tier 3 unless you downgrade your base and start upgrading again. (Don't remember if upgrading starbase after you got resources will change weapons to higher tier tho)
Yes, sorry I didn't make that point in this video. I was trying to really drive home the important need to check and keep track of the weapons on your starbases, as the modules might provide less powerful weapons than your best
@@MontuPlays You didn't really talk about any of the defence platform set ups? O assime once you get ion cannons you just get those but what about the mid and early game?
@@dan7564 there's a separate video about that: ua-cam.com/video/Sh5iIAdatpA/v-deo.html
@@RagnellAvalon ty, would love a consolidation.
One of the best things about Hangar Bays is that they have double the Piracy Suppression of the three offensive starbase modules without sacrificing any of the other stats they give, so there really is no reason not to use them over Missile Batteries or Gun Batteries, all things being equal.
I think the point of naval starbase is to make pop free naval capacity. Trading alloys for that instead. Since pops could be used for research instead.
and Unity points
rushing Unity early is a huge boost
If be interested in a video on defeating 5x or 25x crisis fleets.
I once played against 25x and found the -20% shield debut was utterly useless, because it meant the crisis fleets had 24.8x shields rather than 25x shields (or whatever the precise numbers are).
Is that how the calculation is performed? I thought it would take their total shield, and then reduce it by 20% of that. Meaning instead of say 10,000 Shields it would have 8,000.
@@AeonStaite that's because, iirc, that 25x applied as the bonus itself, meaning -20% from that giant 2500% shield bonus is just 2480%.
@@Ranto294 really depends on how they calculate it/where they apply it in the formula, it could be -20% of 2500% so it's 2000% Bonus shields. Or any of the others mentioned.
Yeah sounds like the -20% is applied the the base amount or original amount.
@@Willow4526 : bonuses and maluses are added up, they don't multiply together. And the Crisis power is a normal bonus. Just a particularly big bonus.
I noticed that fortified stations are a tool of niche.
Its pointless to build fortified stations if you have to move wars, but it could represent a kind to deterrence in case you want to delay attacks or postpone specific conflicts with some neighhboors to just make a war at the time.
By rotating the specialization of these stations you can easily turn a fortified station to a shipyard to support your advance deep inside enemy territory.
Once conquest is done, the same station can again be turned into a trade hub in order to gather energy by trade. That its not bad in the great picture.
Or eventually, if there are no colonies around, you can still repurpose the station for support your naval capacity.
It depends to what you want to do in that specific moment.
Thing about anchorages is that they're really the only reliably useful thing for that slot, especially for non-gestalts. Everything else is extremely situational.
Shipyards? Well, you really only need one or two dedicated shipyard starbases, and I like to keep that at the capital for a number of reasons. You don't need to have them on every base. In fact, it's not recommended you do for a number of reasons (not the least of which is Naval Academy synergy)
Solar Panels? Only Gestalts get those.
Gun/Missile/Hangar Bays: Really only useful on Chokepoints, and even then, very questionably so. There is absolutely no reason to slap these onto every starbase. On top of that, only the hanger one is of any real use, and on top of that, is really only useful as backup for your DPs and Fleets.
Trade Hub: Up until you get gateways, you'll really only want ONE dedicated trade hub close to your capital collecting trade, you don't want long trade routes because then you get pirates, and pirates are ultra annoying.
Also, I really don't put much stock into fortress worlds, because 1st of all it's a complete waste of pops that could be doing far more productive tasks, and 2ndly, due to the way ground warfare works, Fortress worlds are more annoyance than an actual obstacle. if it comes to ground warfare and the enemy invades, unless the enemy is being REALLY stupid about it, you're pretty much screwed no matter how many soldiers you have on a planet.
In Terminal Egress, you can build 3 planetary orbital rings with defense modules to compliment the main starbase’s effects.
Kinda requires each of those planets to have 25 pops for those rings to do much, but yeah you can. It's my current project
8:40 You're definitely missing something here. All my starbases use Tier 5 (or the highest available tier) weapons on respective modules. They are NOT limited to only Tier 3.
He's just saying to keep an eye on your weapons tech level here when choosing the module because tier 3 cannons/lasers are only middling while tier 3 fighters are the best of that tech line.
He said he had access to all of the available technology in the game but for some reason he seems to only be getting tier 3 weapons. I am also seeing tier 5 weapons on my star base. I have no out of date weapons, armor, or shields.
8:58 I believe he is talking about how tier 3 hanger bay is the max level, while tier 3 gun battery isn’t. So you need to check your defense platforms to make sure they “auto updating” or that you go in and manually update your platforms to the highest grade. And if you do have “auto update and auto fill” to make sure that the game actually puts in the best weapons in the slots because otherwise sometimes you’ll uncheck a box or two and end up with less tier guns and not realize your platforms aren’t selecting the preferred guns. I’m pretty sure that he knows that tier 5 is the highest for most guns, armor and shields, lol. I also believe, with what he was talking about wasn’t necessarily being illustrated or demonstrated on screen at that point in time. So it looked confusing.
@@LCInfantry I see what they meant, back around 8:24 or so he says that even with all the right tech available the game borked a bit and only had tier 3 guns on the station itself. Still the point he's trying to make remains the same, keep an eye on what's being put on your stuff automatically and adjust or fix accordingly.
Nice to see you throw in clips of good Trek for once. 👍
early game starbases equipped with hangar bays is a double edged sword, because AI will either challenge it or keep away (since with hangar bays you can easily match their firepower if not possible to defend with corvettes or destroyers) but if they challenge you are probably dead since AI corvettes mostly contain Point-defense design.
AI corvettes are just randomly designed but never seem to have missiles. They definitely don't always have point defense as otherwise they'd always win if you went up against them with missile corvettes. You can also check the battle summary to see what weapons were used, and most of the time in my experience they just run interceptor corvettes.
Having PDS means that you should melt them with your fleet :).
I wish we could design the starbase modules like platforms. that would open up alot of interesting choke point applications
i also wish we got like double the amount of ship sections in the unmodded games.
would be cool to have battlecruisers with all Medium and small weapons like a space disco ball.
battlecruiser with 12 missile bays, or destroyer with a single carrier bay plus some point defence slots
Great content as always! I think that to use upper tier (4 or 5) weapons, you need to have a positive net on the rare resources in your empire, just a complement.
Yes, i failed to mention why they were stuck at tier 3. The important point I was trying to make is that you need to check the actual weapons that end up on your starbase, not assume they are amazing
The tier of the starbase seems to be part of the reason for having lower tier weapons. I noticed that the weapons were being upgraded as I upgraded the starbase itself.
Hey Montu! So yesterday I noticed something about defense platforms that I don't remember you mentioning in your video. If you have a level 3 Bulwark subject you can get -75% build cost and -75% build time for your defense platforms! For me that was 80 alloys for each platform and only 60 days to build!! Absolutely insane!
What if I told you it could become 0 allloys per defence platform and 60 days...
@@MontuPlays is it possible to learn this power?
@@tanker00v25 I think he is referencing some stacking bugs that were present around 1 year ago :D. Quite absurd.
In my experience, the most important part is engagement and weapons range, especially in larger systems like Terminal Egress. Pretty much anything that means the enemy fleet has to move a long way towards your starbase while being in attack range (Target Uplink, Com Jammer, defense stations with hangar/kinetic artillery/neutron launchers, ion cannons). The AI and fleet strength calculation doesn't really seem to take that into account, which results in the AI wasting a lot of fleets on that system instead of simply ignoring the system. My Terminal Egress defense was able to destroy fleets with up to 4x its fleet power without taking loses. It was just satisfying to watch 400k prethoryn fleets getting obliterated over and over.
Did you have a lot of repetable starbase tech? I ask as I thend to ignore starbase repetables.
@@deanwilliams433 just make the game last 25-50 years longer and focus on getting a stronger base economy early then auto research later, sure you won't ever truly decimate something but then again you can always find a way to fight back.
Montu, I think the weapons the game puts on starbases is a bit more complicated than we think which is making the second half of this video incorrect. The starbase details you show don't look like the ones I'm getting in my save files so I did some testing myself and found some weird stuff. First, your max tech starbase examples are capped at tier 3 weapons, but in all of the multiplayer saves I've been playing with my friends the weapons on my starbases are equal to the tier of my best weapon tech. Ex: when I loaded the save they were tier 4 and when I used the console to get all tech the weapons upgraded to max tier. But when I created a new game, console commands to get all tech, instant build, etc., my starbases capped out at tier 3 like yours. My current theory is that starbase weapons are capped before mid-game starts or something relating to the game year. Second, I believe the weapons put on by the Gun Battery module are influenced by ethics. One of the save files I loaded was Fanatical Spiritualist and Gun Batteries would only add mass drivers to the starbase, even in a pulsar system. I was previously under the assumption that pulsar starbases only used energy weapons because on other saves I've looked at pulsar bastions and saw only energy weapons which makes sense because ships will have no shields there. I've heard that the AI ship's weapons are based on ethics so the auto-design of the starbase may work the same way. In your example I believe you are playing Gestalt Consciousness which is why your starbase has 50/50 kinetic to energy weapons ratio. I haven't thorough tested any of this, but I think it's worth looking into.
I don't know how I always know and understand your cutaway references but I am pleased.
I really like adding the listening posts on my border star bases to give me a bit more heads up with incoming troops. They fall off soon after though after you get more vision
I build anchorage stations over habitated systems, the Deep Space Black site and Transit hub are wonderful for your economy. The +5 stability and 100% resettlement chance will boost production by 2.5%(Per planet/hab in system) and help get pops where they need to be and save the time and cost of doing it manually. The Transite hub also allows slaves and robots/droids to move from that system so it can save you a building slot on planet from building the Slave Processing Building. Also while you definitely get more from fortress worlds/habs, that requires population you may not have. In the early game Anchorages are the easiest access to naval cap aside from tech, you need every pop to be producing resources as going over naval cap in the early game is less serious but it isn't negligible.I do not start building fortress worlds/habs till the mid game when I start building battleship fleets. Also one thing to note if you are playing a Trade empire, Hangar bays DOUBLE the trade protection of guns/missiles, a Hangar bay Bastion gives +60 protection vs +30. Shield and armor tech also affects your stations, even if you don't plan on using armor for your ships(crystal hull) it gives your stations that much more that the enemy has to chew through. Stations will also use DRAGON SCALE armor if you manage to get it, at no extra cost.
2:22
What colossus is that? I don't think I've ever seen it before.
Imperial shipset.
Here's a new story idea skynet from another universe won but it was a rouge servitor instead of a determined exterminator
Lol idk how you're doing this, but whenever I'm starting to "look closer" on something in Stellaris, in 1-2 weeks you send a new video about this topic xD
Similarly, every time I think I have a handle on something in Stellaris there's a patch that makes my 'mastery' obsolete.
Not long just started playing the game and buying DLC, my last 2-3 games i only just settled on how I'm going to build defence platforms and star base's, now from this and last video I'm going to have to rethink it a little.
Thanks Montu, you made me want to play Stellaris again and be bad at it again
Also i LOVE starbases
Haha we just had a guy who was kinda struggling with this in yesterday's game. Props for being responsive!
Strike Craft Spam! I always load my Star Bases with Strike Craft since I usually place Defense Platforms anyways which can actually be improved and edited with different weapons unlike the Star Base weapons. Plus their ability to ignore shields and chew off armor makes it easier for your defense to take out what ever is left of the enemy ships. And if they have no armor? Well, then that 100% shield penetration means they will just attack the hull directly.
Also another fun thing about starbases.
Starbase bonuses apply to the system, not just the starbase.
Juggernauts are both ships and starbases (closer to mobile starbases really).
One particular bonus with a starbase is +armour (up to 20k dependent on level), and +10% armour/hull per module, depending on modules.
Abusing this, you can park a juggernaut on a maxed out citadel, and get +60% armour/hp from weapons modules, add in the +large percentages from traditions/perks, and you have a nigh impossible to kill juggernaut in a system with massive armour, and gargantuan hull points.
Loving the videos you been putting out. Solid work for sure.
To get higher than tier 3 weapons on your starbases, I find that producing enough of that resource normally makes them update. Not buying through trade, only producing I found works
These Starbase designs would certainly be useful as I can combine this with a Void dwellers origins. Focusing on securing strategic chocke points while also boosting my Research to astronomical levels and investing my resources to boost the economy. An ideal method for those who don't have the means to manage wide spans of the galaxy or for those who wish to boast their prowess while possessing a small piece of the Galactic pie
I'm surprised you didn't go into some of the other late game economic buildings like the deep space black site. Some of those are quite nice.
I always built 2 Missile 2 Kinetic and 2 Hanger modules on my citadel starbases, but I might just start doing 1 Missile and 1 Kinetic with 4 Hanger Modules and I’ll fill the rest of the defense platforms with Neutron Launchers
Can you do a video on the planetary ascension tiers. When to use them and if they are worth it?
Appreciate all of your videos.
i will forever hate that we cannot design our starbases... ¿¿why?? are you telling me that i am the god emperor of mankind, i can design every individual freaking corvette, but the starbases that hold the eye of terror at bay are left to chance?? nonsense i tell you!
a Citadel with full armor/hull defense platforms loaded with proton launchers on a system with a pulsar... that is freaking unassailable
Love the "Mitchell and Webb" clips!
I think you also forgot to mention that the techs that increase food, energy and minerals from jobs also applies to starbases meaning you can get around 12 energy per solar network and probably around 16 food from hydrophobic bay and is powerful for early game especially if you go heavy tech as machines
Station build Al needs an update badly, if only to stop them building shields and anti-shield weapons in pulsar systems. Amazed this is still in the game after all these years.
Ahh A Dominion War Clip, the best part of DS9 IMO.
Thanks for the tips Montu, i'll have to toy with ACOT and Starbase weapons 🤔
As a gestalt consciousness that food production is always great for trading with other empires. They tend to value it highly early game and it's real easy for me to trade it away for something more valuable.
it is also great as a deficit reserve
i also play mainly Gestalt, and that giant stockpile of food gets sold into energy to avoid shortage sometimes is critical
especially in long wars where i often switch production to focus on alloy to rebuild fleet loss
Im really loving this game especially after playing ck3 for a while
It does seem kind of weird that the weapons cap at tier 3. Starbases are so much bigger than ships, so you'd think it could support more the same level of weaponry as them. Regardless, I always do a full loadout of strikecraft and supplement with defense platforms and ion cannons.
So, AFAIK its about having a net positive income for the rare resources to get the higher tier weapons on a starbase. I was mainly trying to highlight the need check the actual weapons that each module adds to your starbase
I'm gonna presume this aged like milk and we now need a complete rewrite.
Montu, any sort of "Don't build anchorages" take is a take so hot that it could melt through neutronium armor. I don't think I could disagree harder.
It's not an either-or prospect. Anchorages give fleet capacity for module slots. Fortresses give fleet capacity for pops and building slots. Pops are a far more versatile and powerful resource than module slots, but neither prevents the other. An empire with both will have more than an empire with just one or the other.
An infinite supply of shipyards doesn't do anything and you don't need nor want a fully built out defensive starbase everywhere (that's expensive). Trade hubs barely pay for their own existence unless you're actually grabbing trade, and not just a 2 trade node you could have built an anchorage on *anyway*. More ships is good. Anchorages can give you more ships.
Fleet cap is just a suggestion, I regularly exceed it and use edicts to redline my economy and support massive fleets.
Well I think it's more about weighing up how much fleet cap you get from either option. 36 max from a anchorage star base, where as a fortress world gives 360 max, so you'd need 10× the number of star base's.
Obviously anchorages aren't completely useless, early game required imo, but late game the bang for your buck just isn't there when you've got a single fleet taking up hundreds of fleet cap.
@@BAGELMENSK Fleet cap is just a number. Higher fleet cap means you can go even further off the same economy.
Just because you can go past it doesn't mean you don't want more of it.
@@Willow4526 A single anchorage costs 50 alloys at most. On par with the cost of other starbase modules. Six of them is 300. You're gonna want to build to starbase max for the buildings anyway, and leaving those slots barren is a waste of a perfectly good 6 slots.
Of course fortress worlds with tons of pops give more. You're consuming pops to get ships. Mind you, you get a LOT of ships from them, so it's totally worth it. But it is REALLY not hard to dedicate 8-10 starbases to anchorages as well as that fortress world and now you have 720 fleet cap instead of 360 fleet cap from constructions.
Both is good. Don't disregard fortress worlds for anchorages. Don't disregard anchorages for fortress worlds. Build both, so you have more fleet cap, then go over fleet cap anyway because the penalty is based on how far over you go.
Don't build is a bit stronger than the message i want to send. "They are the worst use for a starbase module" at certain ponts in the game is my opinion here.
36 naval cap for a starbase slot is a low trade.
Honestly it’s so easy to swarm in and overwhelm a starbase I just use them for ship yards or anchorage.
I get that from a statistic point of view strikecraft are only good against corvette on a starbase. But i have always found that strikecraft starbases perform better overall even against bigger ships. (had mine hold of the khan at max lvl and wasnt even completely done)
could we get a video about all your created civs? would love to see all the cool nations you have buildt :)
I really hope Star bases get an upgrade, so eventually they have large slot weapons, it’s kinda crappy that their entire ability to defend themselves late game is from defence platforms.
I think the dev team should adopt something similar to the NSC mod with their extra levels of starbases. It made it a contender for actual system defense without fleet and without being utterly invulnerable. In addition I think it'd be cool if the ship designer had leveled starbase design in it.
A starbase designer would be nice
I've used a mod for ages that gives anyone solar arrays because in what world would normally people not think hey solar panels in space, what an awesome idea. 🙂 seriously though thanks for this video, it gives stuff to think about when using the large numbef of extra Starbases it seems i habd by the endgame! As always your videos are helpful like that 🙂
Unfortunately, hangar bays are no longer the ultímate answer to corvettes. On my most recent run in GA as an inward perfection empire, I rushed starholds and hangar bays, but my enemy, an honorbound warrior, who only deployed corvettes, defeated my Starbase with equal fleetpower because they specced for point defense corvettes, leading strike craft to be shut down without dealing damage and barely any enemy losses. I would recommend mixing hangar bays with gun modules in case the AI gets cheeky in the early game.
Well Montu you answered the one question I needed answering: Does Command Center boost the Starbase itself? Thankfully the answer is yes.
omg that intro so awesome! :)
Okay I see the modules at a middling tier, then I look at my own saves without mods and I’m getting the class 5 lasers and Gauss weapons.
3:23 I am shocked at the weird claim here about Anchorages. It is a fact that anchorages are the most optimal way to get naval cap mid to lategame, as there is nothing else to do with those slots! Sure you can get soldiers and fortresses, BUT the pops have unlimited scaling when employed as workers compared to having them as soldiers where they have almost zero scaling since planetary fighting is so less of a factor. Why waste a pop which can produce 30-40 Energy Credits to generate just 6 naval cap? For a defensive chockpoint it's fine, BUT with hyperjumps the enemy can always bypass it :).
Void Dwellers and civilizations making heavy use of habitats will want to take a different approach to central economic starbases, imo. Transit Hubs (100% automatic resettlement chance) and Deep Space Black Sites (+5 stability and 25% governing ethics attraction) provide good bonuses to a system with a settled planet. But that value scales upwards with every additional settled world or habitat in that system. As a Void Dweller, or any civilization that plans on making heavy use of habitats, it's highly beneficial to consolidate your habitats wherever possible, to maximize the value of your economic starbases. For those players, the setup I find most effecient is Trade Hub x5, Hanger Bay x1 with Hydroponics Bay, Transit Bay, Deep Space Black Site, and Offworld Trading Company. The +10 trade protection of the hanger bay has always proved sufficient, while the 20 trade value will more than pay for the credit upkeep of the citadel and all modules.
For defensive citadels at chokepoints, I 100% agree with picks Montu made. Great to know the bonuses are confirmed to stack with the Titan auras, too.
Surely at some point, we'll see an overhaul for starbases to allow design templates, right?.... Right?? D:
Isn't designing a Starbase was a thing waaaay back in the ancient times? Or am I mistaken?
@@VasiliyOgniov Couldn't say! I only started playing sometime just before the lithoids were released.
The game uses far too many shield modules, it causes the starbase to not have enough power for higher tier components, when it would've been more optimal to go for 50/50 shield/armor split, which could actually result in more shield hit points from fewer higher tier shields.
Is there a video anywhere on the side? That explains why some star bases just don’t get built
Way of the Warrior best DS9 episode
WTB Starbase editing in ship editor!
I dislike service umbilicals because at some point I'm gonna want to move the fleet at which point the balance of my economy might destabilize. I'd rather have a more constant, more reliable energy income even if that number is lower.
This is not Montu, this is ROGAL DORN talking
Maybe in the example of "late game"you have only tier 3 because you don't have rare resources for higher tiers
Excellent use of DS9 footage!
Glad you liked it!
For the economic starbases, why is the anchorage module not considered good? They give 4 naval capacity per module slot, 6 if you have the logistics office. If you compare that to say, the solar panels, you're trading off 4 capacity for 6 energy. Unless you've got one or more of the civics or traditions which boost soldier production, this is more naval capacity than an entire pop gives in dedicated production towards that. On the other hand, a technician can produce a hell of a lot more than 6 energy.
I think it is more related to fact that Fortress world VS Anchorage starbase is very different story in how to conquer them. Fortress world must be conquered or bombarded for FTL jammer to stop working but fortresses themselves are last to fall to bombardment and you can stack anti bombardment buildings like planetary shield and Unyielding to make it so that you basically need to crack the planet to proceed making conquest very slow process meanwhile Anchorage starbases get instantly popped and allow enemy to flow into your core worlds
So Combat capable starbase and fortress world is a good combo while Anchorage starbase and generator world isn't when you weight in which one you would put your fleet in for combat
Doesn't mean Anchorage bases aren't worth it just means that putting a choke point has more chances of being utilized in a war vs the points Anchorage provides so you have to weight in pros and cons of having starbase support VS having few more ships in the fleet
Not quite, on the historical model. The purpose of a castle was a fortified seat of a lord, so the point was to exert control over the local area ( usually full of a foriegn population).
But then governments have changed so much since then, that unless people ( or crazies like me) make a deliberate effort to understand something that really has no practical effect, no one's gonna know
There are plenty of castles that the lord never sat foot in. Exerting control over the area is correct but tying it to a lord is utter bollocks.
@@ruukinen ua-cam.com/video/RFvDV5j3Q5s/v-deo.html
Maybe its the space battles mod im using but my starbases equip themselves with the best laser and guns all up to their Max Level like gauss Canons and so on
Their should be a space fortress megastructure.
Can you do some meta build’s videos again? Or even some underrated builds?
Personally I think that starbase's should be a little more powerful. Cause honestly by late game, even even early game just a decently sized fleet and cruise through any military based starbase.
Seems like a bug that the auto designer for bases doesnt use any weapon above tier 3 weapons...
Also help keep your population subjugated if you’re into that sort of thing
the reason you get only tier 3 weapons on the starbase at max tech is because you don't have the special resources income.
Okay, what? Only tier-3 weapons are allowed? It's bizzare. Like, T3 hangars are basically on the same power level as T5 kinetics/lasers iirc but in-game logic doesn't think so. Also, why the hell missile launchers still stay T1 despite everything else being at least somewhat upgraded? I'm never even mentioning shields. Thank you Paradox, have a nice day.
P.S. Which module adds Disintegrator thingie to the base and have you tried to get T6/7 defense? (psi/dark matter shields and dragon scales) If you did, did it change behavior or not?
If only it was that simple...
Basically, the system works very poorly.
It will automatically select weapons the same way it does with ships. So all weapons with a strategic resource (SR) upkeep will only be selected if you have a positive income of said SR when choosing the weapons. It doesn't care about the fact that you will never actually need to pay the SR upkeep for starbase components.
Then there is also the issue of power. When adding too many defensive modules, you can end up with so many weapons that the starbase won't have enough power for them all, and it will downgrade some weapons/shields.
It can also happen if you have too many shields, which is determined by the "personality" of your empire, which you can't change.
T6/7 defense have the same issues, but because T7 defense components are not considered direct upgrades of T6 defenses, they can sometimes not be used at all, or only partially, even if you have a positive SR income and enough energy. Before, even T6 defenses had that bug.
And that's only what I know.
@@Mcgan99 Woah. Thank you for explanation. So, you're saying that if Monti hypothetically had there a proficit of SR he would actually get higher tier weapons? Sounds stupid as hell but alright I get why they did that - I guess it would require quite a bit of coding and overhauling of auto-generator just to improve it for starbases (although it would have been really desirable outcome). But why not give Starbases more power then? It wouldn't make them OP because they would still be restricted by the amount of modules. Or maybe each attacking module would come with reactor booster or something to accommodate for energy requirements. BTW, why not exchange some of the shields for armour but make what's left higher tier? Isn't it what autogenerator does for ships? This whole system is just not particularly reasonable sometimes to say the least
@@VasiliyOgniov Yes, at least that's how it worked last time I tested, and I am not aware of any change since then.
The power issue appeared when they added the Juggernaut: it uses the same reactor as Starbases (for some reason) and they decided to reduce its energy capacity to fit that ship. I know that some people made mods which add a new reactor line specifically for juggernauts and restore the original energy capacity of starbases. No idea why we still need a mod for that, I'm pretty sure everyone agrees this should be in the base game.
As for your last point, I believe the auto-generator for ships is the same for all ships. Technically, starbases are classified as ships, so they use the same rules.
That's part of the problem. For example, starbases can't move to another system, so they shouldn't automatically get shields in a pulsar system. But they do, and we can't do anything about it.
The split for hull, armor and shield modules by the auto-gen is decided by "empire personality", which is dependent on authority, ethics, civics, species traits...
For example, Rogue servitors will have 0% on hull, 40% on armor and 60% on shields.
Devouring Swarms will have have 40% on hull, 20% on armor and 40% on shields... so ~33% on armor and ~67% on shields if they don't have access to any hull boosting module.
You can see more about that there: stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/AI_personalities
+ Василий Огнёв
No module can add extra disruptors, though they are automatically added to all upgraded starbases, assuming you've researched the tech.
I've no idea what would happen if you avoided acquiring disruptors for the entire game, or at which upgrade stage they start being added.
All starbases (and outposts) automatically upgrade to the best armour/shield tiers, but I'm reasonably certain they will never add crystal plating etc... I think.
Dont agree with your economy setup, Check the map and see where there is lots of space trade still unused ( ring symbols ) that pick a strategic safe system, and build a starbase with 4 or 5 trade hubs, hyperlane registar and offworld trading comp, you can fill in the other slots as you wish, placed correctly between your colonized worlds and available unused space trade your economy gets a massive boost.
Tiny thing I've thought about for a long time.
Starbases should be able to equip "Scout Wing" hangar modules from the getgo (like cruisers/battleships if you never researched strike craft).
Also not looking at the game right now. But did you not have any sources of crystals/motes in the game while showing that the starbase was stuck at tier 3 weapons. As I'm pretty sure I've seen higher tier gun modules before (Though I rarely actually look at starbase equipment, and that may have been a modded game)
Yes, you can get higher tier weapons on your starbase. I was trying to highlight the issue that you cant assume your best tech will automatically end up on a starbase
@@MontuPlays Suddently hit with at thought then. If you did "Research_all_technologies" for this video, you should have gotten the rare resource techs, but obviously not a supply. I wonder. If the player gets a supply of motes or whatever, and all their starbases upgrade. Then they run out of motes/lose their supply... Do the starbases downgrade?
finally thank you so much
Great video as always. Just one question, does someone know which tech is needed to produce exotic gas with a nebula rafinery (mentioned at 2:23) ? Just did game where I secured 6 starbases with nebula early, hoping to swim in exotic gas ... and 70 years into the game still no gas income !
Hello Montu Plays. I wanted to ask if, despite the young age of the video here, you plan to make an actual video of it regarding the "First Contact" DLC. In my rounds, both in single player and in multiplayer, I keep asking myself whether the tracking posts are worthwhile or not and if so, where is the best place to put them, because if I put them at the front, they can be switched off quickly in the event of war. Best regards
It would be really interesting to see you go through the meta for mods like you could do this again but with nsc2 and extra ship components
No timestamps? Sad...
army tier list next？
@munto I can't see all the peace offer how can I see it all or can't you see it all? Are you able to suggest to the devs to improve it
You get so many cool cutscenes for your videos, where do you find them?
What's the weather like ollie?
1:20 ... shouldn't it be a net output of 11 energy credit and 10 food?
Or am I wrong here?
It is 6+6-3(upkeep of hydroponics) +10 food which can be sold for 7 more ducats
@@VasiliyOgniov but doesn't it say that the upkeep of the hydroponics is only 1 energy credit?
@@as-ng5ln Yes, and the starbase itself will have an upkeep of 2 energy. 2+1 = 3 energy upkeep
and the upkeep of the starbase?
@@as-ng5ln yeah, my bad, but I have already been corrected
What i can do instead of the solar panels one?
Hey Montu - is this still relevant in the current state, how has things changed in a year?
I hope you're gonna be playing Vicky III
not sure why the AI always spams a bunch of anchorages, I always end up way over my starbase cap with a huge fleet cap every time I take another empire
anchorages are a cheap way to expand fleet cap without tying pops to less valuable jobs
as for defensive aura on platform, i do not see them on mine end game, how did you get those? do i need some specific dlc? i do not have only overlord
Is there way to actually have useful defensive starbase in lategame? I usually just ignore military starbases as it is irrelevant and does nothing. All fighting is done by ships and military starbase is not even bump on the road, they are so weak that they literally do nothing.
I think depends. It would require you to be deep into starbase repetable tech, which I think is a bit of a waste as repeteable tech is better suited for your fleets.
They could make starbased 400000 times more enjoyable by making them placable upon building like megastructions
Do you ever play with mods? Like acot or giga structures
Is it tracking that counters evasion or accuracy?