I've seen cold seizure more than once. It does happen. I will say I've only seen it on new builds that haven't had the heat cycles to season the piston. One being a big Jonsered. I've also seen it on air cooled dirt bikes. I've been doing this since I was a kid, and I'm fifty four now. I'm glad you found the problem with this one,and it makes sense. I do agree that on a saw that's been run in correctly that a cold seize is almost impossible.
The only cold seizure with a two stroke motor is on a liquid cooled 2 stroke. This happens on a dirt bike if the bike is not let to warm up at idle! I’ve seen many of experienced operators fire up their saw and straight into wood while others let them warm up and that goes pad well the motor loading up if the saw is tuned properly it can idle for a long time with no problems! Boedy you admitted your oversight on the saw and that’s what any honest person would do so it’s all good!
Lmao Boedy! You are great entertainment for sure! I know I've started my old 61 Husky I'm 20 below Temps and went straight to cutting with no issues at all! When I hear cold seizure it's someone trying to cover their ass!!
My first impressions of you seem to be holding strong, youre a decent guy. A garden tool....haha thats what the chinese call them. I explained to one factory that chainsaws dont dig up carrots......they laughed.....and took garden tools off all their chainsaw logos. And just went witg a TM. I demanded my products didnt say garden tools and they changed it for the whole world. Cold siezure is something my wife understands very well, hence i call her my Nun.
Haven’t played with wiscos have you lol. They most definitely will and very easily. But it doesn’t look like that. Four lines on all four corners where the skirts end. Only stock saw I’ve personally seen look like it could possibly have cold scoring is the 500 a couple times.
A a custom forged piston in an air cooled setup is a whole different story, you know that. But yeah, if it was gonna do it, it would show up in multiple places. Thanks for your input.
On every saw with transfer caps I put I light coat of MotoSeal or 1184 on the gaskets and let it dry.. then mount them. They can be a real pain in the ass. 562 is what taught me that lol 😆
Now a lean seizure is very common. I still advocate a warm up process regardless as a safety net and to get oil on the surfaces before you go to town. I do see saws that are scored from being hammered on right from the get go but I think that's more a lubricant quality/ratio issue than a heat/swelling issue.
Nice new to echo saws. 4910 on my bench my wife wanted me to fire it up today Nope have to wait until tomorrow so I can say it was born on the 4th of July🔥
I also am a student of the 2 stroke . When you start modifying chainsaws for higher performance you need to start discussing 2 stroke oils. Red armor is more than adequate for a stock chainsaw, but really the bare minimum for a modified saw in my opinion. There are much, much better oils available even at the same price. You want to turn a saw up, start with an understanding of oils. Michael Forrests channel is a good place to start.
Happens even to the seasoned pro's bud. Even master mechanics round a few nuts. No biggie. Thanks for being honest about it and standing behind your work. Edit- agreed on the cold siezure argument with one caveat. The only time it would worry me is on a brand new built. All of those machining marks and imperfections haven't slicked out yet, and they are as tight as they are ever going to be. Once everything mates you should have more than enough clearance for it to not be an issue.
For a “cold seizure” in a chainsaw to happen…and it definitely does happen and I’ve needed to repair one in 20 years! It’s a 10 degree’s below zero and you go grab your chainsaw out of the barn and walk out to the road and fire up your frozen saw and you’re hitting your trigger to warm it up and then immediately walk over and drop your saw into a three foot diameter tree and the ambient temperature outside is below freezing then you can have a cold seizure. If it’s 50-60 degrees and you just start pounding on your engine then it won’t cold seize your aluminum cylinder needs to be shrank by the lower temperature and then you have a chance of the piston expanding enough to stick! Also depending upon what fuel and oil are being used there’s a really good chance that they have separated sitting out in the barn at 10 below zero and with the ethanol pump gas there’s that additional water molecules present possibly that has formed into little ice cubes in your fuel tank… and there’s a real problem with a piston face on your exhaust side getting scraping from just starting up a cold 15-20 degrees Fahrenheit type temperature and just going right into cutting those decent size branches because that aluminum piston top and back side is growing larger and your cylinder is a little bit slower so there’s that exhaust port window edges shape and if they don’t have a nice bevel so they are actually helping to guide your piston rings back into the ring grooves on your piston and your exhaust port roof is a little curved and not flat… I had the same farmer fellow who got a Stihl 036… I put his estate action find that was pretty complete back into running order with used Stihl parts! Then I used it for a couple hours on a tree removal day for the ground saw and I thought it was a great find… he got it for around a $100 bucks with the bar and several chains and it had been opened up… the cylinder was off it and it was perfect so he had to bid against someone else and paid that much money for it originally. Needed a coil… no spark was the reason it wasn’t working so I fixed it and sent it back and in a week… it was 20-30 degrees then he fired it up and started cutting and the piston ring hit the exhaust port and knocked a little hunk off the roof of his piston! I got the meteor kit and made a little bevel smoothing action and off it went… it was still in the 30’s I’m guessing because it wasn’t that cold and he did it again… start it up and just start cutting and in a couple minutes whamO! Piston hit the exhaust port window or a ring doesn’t get all the way back into the ring grooves and hits something and a chunk came off that time and it was mashed around and took out the whole topend… crank was okay so I got a meteor topend kit and said “let it warm up for a couple minutes before you cut!” And it’s not happened again! I gave him a 290 to 390 project saw because those clamshell design saw’s warm up better in the winter and that is one of their major advantages to a pro design… actually probably one of their only advantages!!! LMFFAO! But there’s a lot of cold start damage done and aluminum transfer and scraping or scratching that builds up and then it’s just assumed that it’s from something else possibly. Had I not had the experience with my buddy Danny finding the 036 pro! At an auction and wanting it for the farm then I wouldn’t have ever believed that in 30 degrees Fahrenheit you could be tight enough to make contact with the piston and cylinder… but a 036 will! And there’s some other saw’s that are similar and they can be an issue. The coldest temperature or winter is where you want to be grabbing your clamshell design saw’s so they can really shine because they heat faster across the entire engine and they will run much better then the pro design saw’s. I’m just guessing with why but a 036 has a pretty big hunk of aluminum cylinder for a little 60cc size saw… it’s bigger then a 372! So it’s just a little bit slower to warm up and expand to accommodate the rapidly growing piston… so never thine two shall meet! Ain’t the case… and wack! Wampum Wammo! She’s broken 😡!
Cold seizure could only happen in EXTREAM - temps or on water cooled applications. I agree. Maybe with a shot of liquid nitro 😂 pretty easy to say I messed up let’s learn. Loved this video ❤️🔥🧬☀️🦾
You hit the nail on the head when you said, unless the piston is to big! That’s kinda the definition of a cold seizure, the piston was to large for the bore diameter. And that happens 👍🏼
Why would it take five? It should happen with just one. Correct? If cold seizing is real, it should happen to any saw, anytime I do as you suggest. I'll do it. But not with five saws, that's just annoying.
@novicelumberjack Some saws pistons fit a little tighter in the cylinder than others. At least try 3 saws. A quality Stihl or Husky, a clone saw and see how your fancy little poulan holds up.
So the saw acting up wasn’t completely user error haha but let me know if there’s anything you need from me boedy. Also, I’d like to ask if it’s not too late to have my plastics dyed?
To me it sounds like an air leak to me. Did you remove transfer caps when you ported it? They are tricky to seal. Should be doing a pressure and vacuum test when you Re-assemble to ensure she’s not leaking. If there was a clutch spring going bad it wouldn’t cause the piston to get scuffed.
Steve's Small Engine Saloon guy says cold seizure happens to guys who use their saws for carpentry because they fire up their saws and start cutting right away.
Cold seizure on snowmobiles is not unheard of, most other 2 strokes, definitely not something I expect to see, but I did get a 55 once that 100% had a 4 corner cold seize. The reason that I expect that most of those reading this will never see it are the climate conditions that caused it to happen. It was started and immediately put to work, at -40.
Lol I'm with the sheep. Cold seizure my arse. Shall we discuss the coefficient of linear expansion & the micro structures of alloy steels. Cold seizure lol.
That's like the Texas chainsaw massacre. Leatherface wrote a book and in it he said the saw was a poulan 306 with a tank handle and muffler off a poulan 245. I have no reason to doubt him cuz if they did that it would look exactly like it does in the movie. But if you say it was a 306 OH. MY. GOD. Some of these guys are ready to fight about it like you just talked bad about the Bible lol. You'd think i was making fun of garden tools or something with the way these guys get offended about that hot topic
I've only ever hear of cold seizure from someone whom I trust and believe once. And apparently the bike had been sitting outside for several hours at below freezing temperatures. Oh... yes it was water cooled. A yz250.
You ain't lying! I'll summarize- It has an air leak around the transfer caps. My fault, not gonna charge to fix it. Cold seizure in chainsaws is bs. Barring any wild builds with a forged piston or something like that as Gary Buxton mentioned.
What are you using on those caps for a bonding agent? I agree with you though about having your own experience with something. Thats why i like your channel even though you dont like stihl! 🫢 I hope to meet you at saw fest this year with any luck!
Cold sizing happens ob liquid cooled just like you said. Take for instance a 500 quadzilla. Go hammering up a snowmobile trail and run that sucker into a drift where the rad gets covered by the snow! Youll have a bad day i promise. But air cooler nope not gonna happen but you should let them get some heat in them.
I've seen cold seizure more than once. It does happen. I will say I've only seen it on new builds that haven't had the heat cycles to season the piston. One being a big Jonsered. I've also seen it on air cooled dirt bikes. I've been doing this since I was a kid, and I'm fifty four now. I'm glad you found the problem with this one,and it makes sense. I do agree that on a saw that's been run in correctly that a cold seize is almost impossible.
I cant get over the heard of animals than came threw I didn’t think the the line was gonna end haha 😂 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
👍🆙J&K
👍👍
I agree. Been out in very cold many times- never had a grand mal, not even a petite mal.
😆
The only cold seizure with a two stroke motor is on a liquid cooled 2 stroke. This happens on a dirt bike if the bike is not let to warm up at idle! I’ve seen many of experienced operators fire up their saw and straight into wood while others let them warm up and that goes pad well the motor loading up if the saw is tuned properly it can idle for a long time with no problems! Boedy you admitted your oversight on the saw and that’s what any honest person would do so it’s all good!
Lmao Boedy! You are great entertainment for sure! I know I've started my old 61 Husky I'm 20 below Temps and went straight to cutting with no issues at all! When I hear cold seizure it's someone trying to cover their ass!!
My first impressions of you seem to be holding strong, youre a decent guy. A garden tool....haha thats what the chinese call them. I explained to one factory that chainsaws dont dig up carrots......they laughed.....and took garden tools off all their chainsaw logos. And just went witg a TM. I demanded my products didnt say garden tools and they changed it for the whole world. Cold siezure is something my wife understands very well, hence i call her my Nun.
Haven’t played with wiscos have you lol. They most definitely will and very easily. But it doesn’t look like that. Four lines on all four corners where the skirts end. Only stock saw I’ve personally seen look like it could possibly have cold scoring is the 500 a couple times.
A a custom forged piston in an air cooled setup is a whole different story, you know that. But yeah, if it was gonna do it, it would show up in multiple places. Thanks for your input.
On every saw with transfer caps I put I light coat of MotoSeal or 1184 on the gaskets and let it dry.. then mount them. They can be a real pain in the ass. 562 is what taught me that lol 😆
Now a lean seizure is very common. I still advocate a warm up process regardless as a safety net and to get oil on the surfaces before you go to town. I do see saws that are scored from being hammered on right from the get go but I think that's more a lubricant quality/ratio issue than a heat/swelling issue.
Interesting video! Always trying to take in information and learn.
Nice new to echo saws. 4910 on my bench my wife wanted me to fire it up today Nope have to wait until tomorrow so I can say it was born on the 4th of July🔥
I also am a student of the 2 stroke . When you start modifying chainsaws for higher performance you need to start discussing 2 stroke oils. Red armor is more than adequate for a stock chainsaw, but really the bare minimum for a modified saw in my opinion. There are much, much better oils available even at the same price. You want to turn a saw up, start with an understanding of oils. Michael Forrests channel is a good place to start.
Happens even to the seasoned pro's bud.
Even master mechanics round a few nuts. No biggie. Thanks for being honest about it and standing behind your work.
Edit- agreed on the cold siezure argument with one caveat. The only time it would worry me is on a brand new built. All of those machining marks and imperfections haven't slicked out yet, and they are as tight as they are ever going to be. Once everything mates you should have more than enough clearance for it to not be an issue.
Im with u on cold seizure my non ported saw i run as soon as they fire there in wood
For a “cold seizure” in a chainsaw to happen…and it definitely does happen and I’ve needed to repair one in 20 years! It’s a 10 degree’s below zero and you go grab your chainsaw out of the barn and walk out to the road and fire up your frozen saw and you’re hitting your trigger to warm it up and then immediately walk over and drop your saw into a three foot diameter tree and the ambient temperature outside is below freezing then you can have a cold seizure. If it’s 50-60 degrees and you just start pounding on your engine then it won’t cold seize your aluminum cylinder needs to be shrank by the lower temperature and then you have a chance of the piston expanding enough to stick!
Also depending upon what fuel and oil are being used there’s a really good chance that they have separated sitting out in the barn at 10 below zero and with the ethanol pump gas there’s that additional water molecules present possibly that has formed into little ice cubes in your fuel tank… and there’s a real problem with a piston face on your exhaust side getting scraping from just starting up a cold 15-20 degrees Fahrenheit type temperature and just going right into cutting those decent size branches because that aluminum piston top and back side is growing larger and your cylinder is a little bit slower so there’s that exhaust port window edges shape and if they don’t have a nice bevel so they are actually helping to guide your piston rings back into the ring grooves on your piston and your exhaust port roof is a little curved and not flat… I had the same farmer fellow who got a Stihl 036… I put his estate action find that was pretty complete back into running order with used Stihl parts! Then I used it for a couple hours on a tree removal day for the ground saw and I thought it was a great find… he got it for around a $100 bucks with the bar and several chains and it had been opened up… the cylinder was off it and it was perfect so he had to bid against someone else and paid that much money for it originally. Needed a coil… no spark was the reason it wasn’t working so I fixed it and sent it back and in a week… it was 20-30 degrees then he fired it up and started cutting and the piston ring hit the exhaust port and knocked a little hunk off the roof of his piston! I got the meteor kit and made a little bevel smoothing action and off it went… it was still in the 30’s I’m guessing because it wasn’t that cold and he did it again… start it up and just start cutting and in a couple minutes whamO! Piston hit the exhaust port window or a ring doesn’t get all the way back into the ring grooves and hits something and a chunk came off that time and it was mashed around and took out the whole topend… crank was okay so I got a meteor topend kit and said “let it warm up for a couple minutes before you cut!” And it’s not happened again! I gave him a 290 to 390 project saw because those clamshell design saw’s warm up better in the winter and that is one of their major advantages to a pro design… actually probably one of their only advantages!!! LMFFAO! But there’s a lot of cold start damage done and aluminum transfer and scraping or scratching that builds up and then it’s just assumed that it’s from something else possibly. Had I not had the experience with my buddy Danny finding the 036 pro! At an auction and wanting it for the farm then I wouldn’t have ever believed that in 30 degrees Fahrenheit you could be tight enough to make contact with the piston and cylinder… but a 036 will! And there’s some other saw’s that are similar and they can be an issue. The coldest temperature or winter is where you want to be grabbing your clamshell design saw’s so they can really shine because they heat faster across the entire engine and they will run much better then the pro design saw’s. I’m just guessing with why but a 036 has a pretty big hunk of aluminum cylinder for a little 60cc size saw… it’s bigger then a 372! So it’s just a little bit slower to warm up and expand to accommodate the rapidly growing piston… so never thine two shall meet! Ain’t the case… and wack! Wampum Wammo! She’s broken 😡!
I'm with you because it's always after a rebuild on a 2 stroke people say cold sezie and its an air leak
I've always warmed my saws up especially in winter jus a personal preference.
I got your vacuum pressure tester adapters and block off plates. Going to try and mail them today.
He's heard that before! 😆
Ohhh yeah! I'll be able to see exactly where the leak is. Pin-point it! This is gonna be great.
@@novicelumberjackthreebond 1207D is the OEM spec sealant for echo clamshells and transfer caps.
@@novicelumberjackthey work on other saws too.
@@novicelumberjackdropped em off, UPS says thursday
Cold seizure could only happen in EXTREAM - temps or on water cooled applications. I agree. Maybe with a shot of liquid nitro 😂 pretty easy to say I messed up let’s learn. Loved this video ❤️🔥🧬☀️🦾
I agree with you on cold seizure, unlikely. More of piston sizing problem? I am more worried about piston rattling around in cylinder when cold!
If I had a dollar for every air leak I've fought with.......I would buy a saw that didn't leak air.
You hit the nail on the head when you said, unless the piston is to big! That’s kinda the definition of a cold seizure, the piston was to large for the bore diameter. And that happens 👍🏼
Take your top 5 most valuable saws, fire them up, pin the throttle and bury the bars. Let's see if you're right.
Why would it take five? It should happen with just one. Correct? If cold seizing is real, it should happen to any saw, anytime I do as you suggest. I'll do it. But not with five saws, that's just annoying.
@novicelumberjack Some saws pistons fit a little tighter in the cylinder than others. At least try 3 saws. A quality Stihl or Husky, a clone saw and see how your fancy little poulan holds up.
The livestock think it’s bullshit. And, I’m agreeing with them.
So the saw acting up wasn’t completely user error haha but let me know if there’s anything you need from me boedy. Also, I’d like to ask if it’s not too late to have my plastics dyed?
No problem!
ST ZACHARIE QUEBEC CANADA
Hi good Day
And cold seizure was such an issue, then the first idle would not rev so high.
First time i ported mine i had an air leak on the transfer caps because motoseal didnt bond correctly or i didnt prep the surface correctly.
Cold siezure is to the 1st Law of Thermodynamics as two horny squirrels humping in a wool sock is to Global Warming.
To me it sounds like an air leak to me. Did you remove transfer caps when you ported it? They are tricky to seal.
Should be doing a pressure and vacuum test when you Re-assemble to ensure she’s not leaking.
If there was a clutch spring going bad it wouldn’t cause the piston to get scuffed.
Shit happens man ur good for standn by ur work.
Steve's Small Engine Saloon guy says cold seizure happens to guys who use their saws for carpentry because they fire up their saws and start cutting right away.
What does a cold seizure look like?
👍🆙BigGuy
Only time I have ever seen anything that closely resembles "COLD SEIZURE" is in water cooled Moto Cross bikes in cold weather
Only have heard of a cold seizures on liquid cooled 2 strokes with FORGED pistons! Even then it’s normally bad machine work.
I think the goats/sheep don’t believe cold seizure happened either.
Cold seizure on snowmobiles is not unheard of, most other 2 strokes, definitely not something I expect to see, but I did get a 55 once that 100% had a 4 corner cold seize. The reason that I expect that most of those reading this will never see it are the climate conditions that caused it to happen. It was started and immediately put to work, at -40.
Ive never seen that and I live in Canada. I cut in snow
are those giant rats??
Comment from me today 😅
Lol I'm with the sheep. Cold seizure my arse. Shall we discuss the coefficient of linear expansion & the micro structures of alloy steels. Cold seizure lol.
Never heard of cold seizure. 🤔
👍👍
That's like the Texas chainsaw massacre. Leatherface wrote a book and in it he said the saw was a poulan 306 with a tank handle and muffler off a poulan 245. I have no reason to doubt him cuz if they did that it would look exactly like it does in the movie. But if you say it was a 306 OH. MY. GOD. Some of these guys are ready to fight about it like you just talked bad about the Bible lol. You'd think i was making fun of garden tools or something with the way these guys get offended about that hot topic
If it was a liquid cooled snowmobile, then yes it maybe cold seizure. An air cooled chainsaw nah.
I've only ever hear of cold seizure from someone whom I trust and believe once. And apparently the bike had been sitting outside for several hours at below freezing temperatures. Oh... yes it was water cooled. A yz250.
Are your goats out??
Your sorta wanting the cake and the crumbs to mate it dont really work that way.
And I work on dirt bikes not chainsaws
Sir i have no money want chainsaw in webi mayabunder North and middle Andaman
ask IRON DONKEY for some words of wisdom, maybe he can enlighten you? put it on the back shelf for 8 months and dont answer phone is his go to move!
Man you can talk alot and not say anything. And i was listening also.
You ain't lying! I'll summarize- It has an air leak around the transfer caps. My fault, not gonna charge to fix it. Cold seizure in chainsaws is bs. Barring any wild builds with a forged piston or something like that as Gary Buxton mentioned.
What did the sushi say to the bee?
Wasabi?
Metal and Wood channel is talking shit about you @Novice Lumberjack
Oh yeah? What video?
No he wasn't. Stop lying.
@@novicelumberjack /watch?v=O_fNIcxm7TU Chainsaw diary #13
What are you using on those caps for a bonding agent? I agree with you though about having your own experience with something. Thats why i like your channel even though you dont like stihl! 🫢 I hope to meet you at saw fest this year with any luck!
Cold sizing happens ob liquid cooled just like you said. Take for instance a 500 quadzilla. Go hammering up a snowmobile trail and run that sucker into a drift where the rad gets covered by the snow! Youll have a bad day i promise. But air cooler nope not gonna happen but you should let them get some heat in them.