Very simple to me. I got into Fd to get away from the crowds and go where only assisted foils or wings can go. So after 3 years using FD I've never had a run in with a surfer or other water craft.
Ive switched back to a 20cm motor cable (from a 15cm) to reduce noise pollution on smaller foils as I was very self conscious about it. It’s much quieter on the 20cm.
Great vid, Do u remember when skateboarding was banned? Also, I’ve been surfing my whole life ( I’m 71) and get the surf etiquette thing, but who hast the “right of way” when it’s foil on foil?
*MASSIVELY EDITED* The introduction of Foil Drive into the surf lineup, a crowded playing field to begin with, undoubtedly raises questions about etiquette. In a simpler time, when the variety of wave riding vehicles were fewer, there was a surf etiquette and there were so-called enforcers of it. Obviously, times have changed, the variety of ways to tap into a wave's energy have multiplied. Consequently, the guidelines have had to evolve and now we're throwing Foil Drive into the mix and, of course, etiquette will have to evolve once again. Etiquette is location specific. Guidelines governing behavior change from place to place. What's acceptable in a bowling alley will not likely pass muster on a golf course. Behavior on the ocean, lakes and rivers is already governed by a formalized etiquette, if you will, we sometimes refer to as "rules of the road." For example, there is a rule that says a vessel under motor power must give way to a vessel under sail power, unless inside designated shipping lanes. These guidelines only apply in navigable waters, leaving mainly the surf zone uncharted. When Foil Drive is used to get away from the crowds, which is how Paul and a lot of others use it, etiquette is dictated by existing right of way rules governing navigable waters. I'm curious if others agree with this assertion? Surf etiquette already exists. It's less formal than the rules that govern vessels on the open seas, but it is acknowledged if not followed universally. Foil Drive introduces motor power, neither assist nor fully dedicated, which is not something surf etiquette currently account for. As this video makes clear, It's in all of our interest to acknowledge this fact and grapple with it. A foil is like any other surf riding vehicle in the sense that it taps into a wave's energy. It just happens that a foil assist, like Foil Drive, makes it possible to do so at an earlier point along the line. Paul says that his local break has plenty of beach where Foil Drive allows him to ride away from surfers. He acknowledges that this isn't the case in everywhere. A lot of us do in fact compete with surfers for waves. What is the proper etiquette in these places. It is in this context, in the breaking surf, where other varieties of surf craft are being used, that questions of etiquette related to Foil Drive arise. I want to add that common sense is not always the best guide in such instances. When we say something is "common sense," we are actually saying that it is the popularly held view at the time. Unfortunately, popularity is not always arrived at by sound reasoning. Paul says same thing, more or less, something like, "We need to look to the facts to determine what is to be done." I bring this up, not to quibble with the use of the expression, common sense, but to warn against the kind of group think that apparently lead to the banning of foils in Sydney. Foil Drive the company may be putting this video out in an effort to get out in front of the backlash to Foil Drive some predict is coming. I'd say that's a bit cynical and uncharitable. If predictions of a coming ban hold water, it does pose an existential threat to the company. I, for one, do not believe it will come to that. At least I hope it doesn't. And that's why I applaud Foil Drive, the company, for getting out in front of this. Hope is fine and good, but it's not an effective strategy for achieving one's goals. Only an honest and open discussion can accomplish that.
Loved the conversation as have had a lot of negative responses from friends re Foiling but totally agree with the concept of getting away from crowds and exploring the unrideable zone. I am on the Sunshine Coast but have had injuries restricting my progression from flat water to waves which is the dream so if you are up this way on a demo trip or there is someone that wants to offer some guidance and location selection as it is limited at Peregian to get suitable conditions. Would enjoy catching up with someone to get me out there.
Thanks Andrew, We're in such an important time with foiling and foil assist to educate and communicate with each other. Communication goes a long way in forming mutual understanding when something is new. We would have missed you in Queensland, we were over for the Wake World Champs and had a demo event with Ocean Addicts last weekend. We'll have some more demos over summer but the local dealers are amazing, or you could message Dave West, he's done some coaching with Foil Drive before and sounds like he would be pretty close by!
Aggression in the water is mostly driven by a scarcity mindset and territorial posturing to control a scarce resource. Foil Drive is a 10X wave riding machine that has the potential to liberate the surfing community from this crippling condition.
Definitely is a powerful too that is an amazing enabler for so many people to get on the water. All we look for is for people to understand and respect they power they have, being mindful of those who don't have the opportunity to capture 10+ waves in a session. There's room for everyone out there, observation and communication is so important to find a place where everyone is out there having fun. As you mentioned, switching to a 20cm for your particular riding style reduces some noise, it doesnt seem like a huge deal, but to some makes the word of difference when riding in shared spaces. Appreciate your thoughts!
Wouldn't standard boating rules apply as a board with a FD would be classified as a motorised vessel or PWC? Therefore for example in Queensland "you must reduce your speed to no more than 6 knots if you are within 60m of people in the water"
Thanks for sharing your experience and wisdom with this issue.
Very simple to me. I got into Fd to get away from the crowds and go where only assisted foils or wings can go. So after 3 years using FD I've never had a run in with a surfer or other water craft.
Well presented .Thanks.
Ive switched back to a 20cm motor cable (from a 15cm) to reduce noise pollution on smaller foils as I was very self conscious about it. It’s much quieter on the 20cm.
Great vid,
Do u remember when skateboarding was banned?
Also, I’ve been surfing my whole life ( I’m 71) and get the surf etiquette thing, but who hast the “right of way” when it’s foil on foil?
*MASSIVELY EDITED*
The introduction of Foil Drive into the surf lineup, a crowded playing field to begin with, undoubtedly raises questions about etiquette. In a simpler time, when the variety of wave riding vehicles were fewer, there was a surf etiquette and there were so-called enforcers of it. Obviously, times have changed, the variety of ways to tap into a wave's energy have multiplied. Consequently, the guidelines have had to evolve and now we're throwing Foil Drive into the mix and, of course, etiquette will have to evolve once again.
Etiquette is location specific. Guidelines governing behavior change from place to place. What's acceptable in a bowling alley will not likely pass muster on a golf course. Behavior on the ocean, lakes and rivers is already governed by a formalized etiquette, if you will, we sometimes refer to as "rules of the road." For example, there is a rule that says a vessel under motor power must give way to a vessel under sail power, unless inside designated shipping lanes. These guidelines only apply in navigable waters, leaving mainly the surf zone uncharted. When Foil Drive is used to get away from the crowds, which is how Paul and a lot of others use it, etiquette is dictated by existing right of way rules governing navigable waters. I'm curious if others agree with this assertion?
Surf etiquette already exists. It's less formal than the rules that govern vessels on the open seas, but it is acknowledged if not followed universally. Foil Drive introduces motor power, neither assist nor fully dedicated, which is not something surf etiquette currently account for. As this video makes clear, It's in all of our interest to acknowledge this fact and grapple with it.
A foil is like any other surf riding vehicle in the sense that it taps into a wave's energy. It just happens that a foil assist, like Foil Drive, makes it possible to do so at an earlier point along the line. Paul says that his local break has plenty of beach where Foil Drive allows him to ride away from surfers. He acknowledges that this isn't the case in everywhere. A lot of us do in fact compete with surfers for waves. What is the proper etiquette in these places. It is in this context, in the breaking surf, where other varieties of surf craft are being used, that questions of etiquette related to Foil Drive arise.
I want to add that common sense is not always the best guide in such instances. When we say something is "common sense," we are actually saying that it is the popularly held view at the time. Unfortunately, popularity is not always arrived at by sound reasoning. Paul says same thing, more or less, something like, "We need to look to the facts to determine what is to be done." I bring this up, not to quibble with the use of the expression, common sense, but to warn against the kind of group think that apparently lead to the banning of foils in Sydney.
Foil Drive the company may be putting this video out in an effort to get out in front of the backlash to Foil Drive some predict is coming. I'd say that's a bit cynical and uncharitable. If predictions of a coming ban hold water, it does pose an existential threat to the company. I, for one, do not believe it will come to that. At least I hope it doesn't. And that's why I applaud Foil Drive, the company, for getting out in front of this. Hope is fine and good, but it's not an effective strategy for achieving one's goals. Only an honest and open discussion can accomplish that.
Great conversation. The human psychology of competition for limited wave resources is so interesting.
Both interesting and every changing. Glad you enjoyed it
Loved the conversation as have had a lot of negative responses from friends re Foiling but totally agree with the concept of getting away from crowds and exploring the unrideable zone. I am on the Sunshine Coast but have had injuries restricting my progression from flat water to waves which is the dream so if you are up this way on a demo trip or there is someone that wants to offer some guidance and location selection as it is limited at Peregian to get suitable conditions. Would enjoy catching up with someone to get me out there.
Thanks Andrew, We're in such an important time with foiling and foil assist to educate and communicate with each other. Communication goes a long way in forming mutual understanding when something is new. We would have missed you in Queensland, we were over for the Wake World Champs and had a demo event with Ocean Addicts last weekend. We'll have some more demos over summer but the local dealers are amazing, or you could message Dave West, he's done some coaching with Foil Drive before and sounds like he would be pretty close by!
Aggression in the water is mostly driven by a scarcity mindset and territorial posturing to control a scarce resource. Foil Drive is a 10X wave riding machine that has the potential to liberate the surfing community from this crippling condition.
Definitely is a powerful too that is an amazing enabler for so many people to get on the water. All we look for is for people to understand and respect they power they have, being mindful of those who don't have the opportunity to capture 10+ waves in a session. There's room for everyone out there, observation and communication is so important to find a place where everyone is out there having fun. As you mentioned, switching to a 20cm for your particular riding style reduces some noise, it doesnt seem like a huge deal, but to some makes the word of difference when riding in shared spaces. Appreciate your thoughts!
Wouldn't standard boating rules apply as a board with a FD would be classified as a motorised vessel or PWC? Therefore for example in Queensland "you must reduce your speed to no more than 6 knots if you are within 60m of people in the water"