I have recently purchased a TinySA through R&L Electronics, and can't wait for it to show up! I was bit by the counterfeit market with a fake NanoVNA, but I wasn't out much, thankfully! The real unit works very well, and makes VNA measurements a breeze. But the ability to hook it to my computer and use the monitor is a big help with my eyes, and the ability to do the same with the Tiny SA was a big plus in my decision to buy it.
It´s scary. Sorry for you. After seeing your video, I gave up to buy a TinySA from Ali Express. I´ve just placed an order from R&L Electronics. Ali Express refused to take your evidences, it´s quite clear. Ali Express, never again. Totally unsafe. Greetings from Brazil.
I was somewhat annoyed at Ali but have had many good experiences through them that I just let it pass... I did end up buying again through Ali but from the recommended outlet - which of course passes all tests fine for just a few quid more...
If you were to plug "stopband fail" into a search engine, the first hit links to a post asking about a self test 7 failure on a new unit. The link also includes a reply from some dude named Erik Kaashoek: Ah, test 7, the band pass filter. The critical part of the stop band is at a rather large offset of -4MHz from center (at the far left of the screen) so this will not have any impact on the performance of the tinySA. The shape of the band pass filter is excellent. I may have set this selftest a bit too strict given the (at the moment of definition) not know spread over a large amount of products.
I understand and sympathize with your experience. Yes, Aliexpress can be hit and miss but just because there are some bad apples selling on the platform doesn't necessarily mean Aliexpress should be avoided, I'm a regular shopper there and my experience has been mostly good, the occasional issue has been sorted out for me but I appreciate your case being a tricky one!
They should definitely refund in such a clear case where there is documentation from the project about which products are fake. Don't jip your customers. This is also the downside of getting products shipped from half-way around the world, they can't afford returns except in the most glaring circumstances.
FYI the version string "tinySA_v1.1-66-g2015f17" looks like the output of the "git describe" command, which can be interpreted as: "commit SHA-1 hash starting with 2015f17 (hex) which is 66 commits after tag tinySA_v1.1 in the history". Of course this doesn't tell much about what was changed, for that one would need an access to the actual source repository.
Hi Melvyn, your video provoked me to check mine. Fortunately it appears to be genuine, Unusually I have not looked inside but it was not running the "patched" firmware and does have "HIGH" spelt correctly. Have just uploaded the very latest NOV 2022 firmware (V1.3-504) and it continues to pass self test.
Can you not claim through your Credit Card protection? Also, is the problem fixable? I.e could you get the proper parts and replace to make it pass the test?
Since the TinySa project is open source, could an individual take the gEDA files and schematics from get hub, send them to a PCB manufacturer and essentially build their own TinySa? Thanks for the video! BTW , nice Lastname -Jason Burchell
Just more Chinese junk. I bought mine from R&L Electronics and it works great. I don't think the Chinese can design anything themselves. They have to copy everything. Great well-docuemented video. Maybe it will save someone else the grief you had to go thru.
Rubbish, these days China has more original technology patents a year than the US and has vastly better engineering. But hey, don't let facts and the real world destroy your delusions.
Thanks for this info, Melvym . I'm on the verge of buying the Big Brother Tiny SA Ultra, which I'm sure will similarly attract fakers. Mirfield are the place to go, I think. Forty more quid but peace of mind. "Caveat Emptor" as someone once said .
You mentioned that since it failed the full self test it could not be relied upon for accuracy. Did you assume this or did you actually put the clone thru a series of measurement tests and comparing them to an original unit? If you did it would be nice to know the results. Thanks for the video.
To be fair it can be used for a number of functions and where a Sig gen is required works well... The filter differences are on the front end which might ultimately be swappable for items that do work correctly
You overwhelmed them with information they couldn’t easily understand, so it became a he said/she said. If you had just said “failed self-test” then it would have been fine. I think in particular, pointing out the mis-spelling would trigger “this guy is a whiner, a misspelling is no big deal.” Also, they don’t know what a “project owner” is. The vendor did a good job of adding to the “noise” by making irrelevant comments that they claimed refuted your comments, even though they had nothing to do with anything. Obviously this isn’t about the money. Everyone involved has spent more time than is warranted for a sub-$100 project. :)
I don’t think they’re clones. I think they are units that were rejected in quality control and were somehow obtained by a seller who tried to sell as authentic.
It DID pass the "self test," initially. Why was its performance not then tested? Nowhere, in this video, is any testing done. A proper test would be, to feed it a square wave, and see if the frequencies and amplitudes, of the harmonics, are what they should be. Ideally, the result should be compared with that of a "real" spectrum analyzer, to make sure the waveform, itself, contains no unexpected distortion. Who cares what "firmware" version it has, whether it has a serial number, whether it was made by Hottentots in a thatch-roofed shop in the Kalahari, etc, etc. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."
@@mrtechie6810 -- Zeenko is the factory store. They're the people who make them for the designers/R&L Electronics. All of these things are made in China. There aren't factories full of Americans making this stuff. The designer recommends Zeenko as a reliable place to purchase them.
Ok? So nowhere in the video are you actually USING the thing? It's a counterfeit, sure, but does it work?? Can it actually "analyze spectrums" as it's supposed to do?
Yes but you might as well not bother as the measurements it may display cannot be relied upon whatsoever to be accurate nor worthy of further investigation if it does show anything. Might as well play the frequency as a tone and ask Granny if it sounds OK, for the good that this clone will do.
@@elmodiddly nonsense. Just because it’s a clone does not mean that it isn’t a usable instrument. After all the stuff is open sourced. To really know one would have to compare it with a known good SA not just assume that because it’s a clone it can’t be relied upon.
I'd guess that 90+% of the things that Ali sells are knockoffs of one thing or another. It's what they do. You've proven it's a knock off, and demonstrated that Ali doesn't care. That's useful. You've proven that you likely can't trust the data from the device, but you haven't proven that the device doesn't work. Those are two separate things. I basically view Ali as a company without any ethics. But, here in the US, we kind of expect companies to not have any ethics. If you contract with thieves to manufacturer your product, don't be surprised that the thieves will rip you off. That's how clones are often started. The original designer outsources the manufacturer to overseas production. They do that to lower the price point, but it comes at a cost.
re: "but you haven't proven that the device doesn't work." Do you catch what Test 7 conveys? Missing internal components involving a front end filter? Que?
@@uploadJ Sure! But what's the impact on the real world use? You're not going to use a TinySA, any version, at a busy radio site and expect it to work, or even not get the front end blown out. It's a hobby tool, or one for a pro to use to check things on isolated sites. For simple troubleshooting, probably even tuning duplexers for a ham, it's going to be fine. None of this is lab quality gear.
@@tomsmith3045 re: "You're not going to use a TinySA, any version, at a busy radio site" Surely you're not a noob? I have a water tower that shows within the 1/2 mile range marker on a shipboard X-band RADAR, and the amount of RF coming off that tower (ATT, Verizon, T-Mob, etc) with the spectrum that the 5G air-interface protocol allows presents a problem JUST using a regular scanner nowadays let alone a device w/o proper LP or BP filtering in the front end ... we aren't living in your Dad's RF environment anymore.
@@tomsmith3045 BTW, I'm the original designer of the 1 5/8" Heliax-based 6m duplexer (over 30 yrs back now), and I've had more than just 'tune up' experience in making measurements of 90 dB notches and pass bands on that tech. Best tool when tuning up individual notch stubs was an HP8640B generator and the 8405A vector voltmeter, and later used an HP8591E.
You are buying it at what is the internet equivalent of a flee market. What do you expect? A clever shopper can get some great deals but shopping there for precision equipment is silly.
Well... a lot of bla bla around a 1 minute test described on the website in 10 lines... no proof of what the real difference is in measuring or signal generating . Maybe it´s still usable for people who just want to see spurious signals or harmonics for a small amount of money ?. Someone else was describing the differences much deeper and , honestly, my 25000$ 1980 Ailtech is probably not more reliable than this clone... i still can use it for what i need mostly. ( i own a genuine ultra )
I am now in the market for a TinySA or a TinySA Ultra. Banggood are offering the Ultra for about £ 100.00. Obviously I am not able to check the Serial Number or the Firmware Version until I have the device to hand. I have just subscribed to Erik's UA-cam channel "just in case".
Chinese stores sell original goods as well. So welcome to the desire to save a couple of dollars. Just pay a little more and buy the original product 🙂
Thank you for confirming their business practices. I will NOT buy any more from AliExpress.
i got burnt once and i was still buying but this makes me think again.
@@andrewskater8813 TinySa wiki has a list of approved vendors one of which is on aliexpress so is better to so your research first
Thank you for sharing your bad experiences about these clones with us. You saved us a lot of trouble and spent money for nothing.
Thanks so much for this, I think you may have saved me from a lot of angst. I will certainly be taking your advice.
Good explanation.
Refreshing to see that I'm not the only one with dozens of tab's open at any one time 😅
Dozens, I only have 20 open at the moment.
I have recently purchased a TinySA through R&L Electronics, and can't wait for it to show up!
I was bit by the counterfeit market with a fake NanoVNA, but I wasn't out much, thankfully!
The real unit works very well, and makes VNA measurements a breeze.
But the ability to hook it to my computer and use the monitor is a big help with my eyes, and the ability to do the same with the Tiny SA was a big plus in my decision to buy it.
Very useful information about buying this kind of thing, very good tips on precautions to take. Ali Express doesn't exactly distinguish themselves.
It´s scary. Sorry for you. After seeing your video, I gave up to buy a TinySA from Ali Express. I´ve just placed an order from R&L Electronics. Ali Express refused to take your evidences, it´s quite clear. Ali Express, never again. Totally unsafe. Greetings from Brazil.
I was somewhat annoyed at Ali but have had many good experiences through them that I just let it pass... I did end up buying again through Ali but from the recommended outlet - which of course passes all tests fine for just a few quid more...
If you were to plug "stopband fail" into a search engine, the first hit links to a post asking about a self test 7 failure on a new unit. The link also includes a reply from some dude named Erik Kaashoek:
Ah, test 7, the band pass filter.
The critical part of the stop band is at a rather large offset of -4MHz from center (at the far left of the screen) so this will not have any impact on the performance of the tinySA.
The shape of the band pass filter is excellent.
I may have set this selftest a bit too strict given the (at the moment of definition) not know spread over a large amount of products.
I understand and sympathize with your experience. Yes, Aliexpress can be hit and miss but just because there are some bad apples selling on the platform doesn't necessarily mean Aliexpress should be avoided, I'm a regular shopper there and my experience has been mostly good, the occasional issue has been sorted out for me but I appreciate your case being a tricky one!
They should definitely refund in such a clear case where there is documentation from the project about which products are fake. Don't jip your customers. This is also the downside of getting products shipped from half-way around the world, they can't afford returns except in the most glaring circumstances.
Thanks for that, been meaning to brush up a bit on my rf stuff and get one of these, I'll take extra care where i spend my dosh!.
Is there also a counterfeit tiny SA Ultra?
Should you not recalibrate the device before the sef test after reflashing the firmware?
Sound advice.
FYI the version string "tinySA_v1.1-66-g2015f17" looks like the output of the "git describe" command, which can be interpreted as: "commit SHA-1 hash starting with 2015f17 (hex) which is 66 commits after tag tinySA_v1.1 in the history". Of course this doesn't tell much about what was changed, for that one would need an access to the actual source repository.
I have just disputed payment on my credit card when they give me hard time about refunds.
What is the best way not to get ripped off and buy junk?
Hi Melvyn, your video provoked me to check mine. Fortunately it appears to be genuine, Unusually I have not looked inside but it was not running the "patched" firmware and does have "HIGH" spelt correctly. Have just uploaded the very latest NOV 2022 firmware (V1.3-504) and it continues to pass self test.
Good Information
Can you not claim through your Credit Card protection? Also, is the problem fixable? I.e could you get the proper parts and replace to make it pass the test?
The battery capacity is also way smaller than the cell in a genuine device.
Since the TinySa project is open source, could an individual take the gEDA files and schematics from get hub, send them to a PCB manufacturer and essentially build their own TinySa?
Thanks for the video! BTW , nice Lastname
-Jason Burchell
Just more Chinese junk. I bought mine from R&L Electronics and it works great. I don't think the Chinese can design anything themselves. They have to copy everything. Great well-docuemented video. Maybe it will save someone else the grief you had to go thru.
Rubbish, these days China has more original technology patents a year than the US and has vastly better engineering. But hey, don't let facts and the real world destroy your delusions.
Thanks for this info, Melvym .
I'm on the verge of buying the Big Brother Tiny SA Ultra, which I'm sure will similarly attract fakers.
Mirfield are the place to go, I think. Forty more quid but peace of mind.
"Caveat Emptor" as someone once said .
You mentioned that since it failed the full self test it could not be relied upon for accuracy. Did you assume this or did you actually put the clone thru a series of measurement tests and comparing them to an original unit? If you did it would be nice to know the results. Thanks for the video.
To be fair it can be used for a number of functions and where a Sig gen is required works well... The filter differences are on the front end which might ultimately be swappable for items that do work correctly
If you paid by PayPal, raise a case with them within 6 months.
thanks for this video, i was about to buy one from same place.
As with ANY online purchase you have to do your due diligence don't just look at price.
Thank you !
thank you so much!!!!
You overwhelmed them with information they couldn’t easily understand, so it became a he said/she said. If you had just said “failed self-test” then it would have been fine. I think in particular, pointing out the mis-spelling would trigger “this guy is a whiner, a misspelling is no big deal.” Also, they don’t know what a “project owner” is. The vendor did a good job of adding to the “noise” by making irrelevant comments that they claimed refuted your comments, even though they had nothing to do with anything.
Obviously this isn’t about the money. Everyone involved has spent more time than is warranted for a sub-$100 project. :)
I don’t think they’re clones. I think they are units that were rejected in quality control and were somehow obtained by a seller who tried to sell as authentic.
Not with the incorrectly spelt "High" they're not!
@@SarahC2 incorrectly spelt "High" is exactly why they could be.
It DID pass the "self test," initially. Why was its performance not then tested? Nowhere, in this video, is any testing done. A proper test would be, to feed it a square wave, and see if the frequencies and amplitudes, of the harmonics, are what they should be. Ideally, the result should be compared with that of a "real" spectrum analyzer, to make sure the waveform, itself, contains no unexpected distortion. Who cares what "firmware" version it has, whether it has a serial number, whether it was made by Hottentots in a thatch-roofed shop in the Kalahari, etc, etc. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."
"It DID pass the "self test," initially." the self test lied - it was not in spec. When a real firmware was flashed, the failure showed up.
“Who cares if the pudding is bug infested and might get you sick if it tastes good.”
Mine from Zeenko was patched .
So is it real?
@@mrtechie6810 -- Zeenko is the factory store. They're the people who make them for the designers/R&L Electronics. All of these things are made in China. There aren't factories full of Americans making this stuff. The designer recommends Zeenko as a reliable place to purchase them.
I got ripped off on Amazon. I don’t even feel like trying with these gadgets anymore. Juice not worth the squeeze
Ok? So nowhere in the video are you actually USING the thing? It's a counterfeit, sure, but does it work?? Can it actually "analyze spectrums" as it's supposed to do?
Yes but you might as well not bother as the measurements it may display cannot be relied upon whatsoever to be accurate nor worthy of further investigation if it does show anything. Might as well play the frequency as a tone and ask Granny if it sounds OK, for the good that this clone will do.
@@elmodiddly nonsense. Just because it’s a clone does not mean that it isn’t a usable instrument. After all the stuff is open sourced. To really know one would have to compare it with a known good SA not just assume that because it’s a clone it can’t be relied upon.
@@cube1us That has been done if you explore UA-cam, the clones fall far short of providing accurate measurements and the noise floor is higher.
@@chrislx2006 Perhaps you could refer me to a specific one?
@@cube1us ua-cam.com/video/I5IzLAGgKg0/v-deo.html
I'd guess that 90+% of the things that Ali sells are knockoffs of one thing or another. It's what they do. You've proven it's a knock off, and demonstrated that Ali doesn't care. That's useful. You've proven that you likely can't trust the data from the device, but you haven't proven that the device doesn't work. Those are two separate things. I basically view Ali as a company without any ethics. But, here in the US, we kind of expect companies to not have any ethics. If you contract with thieves to manufacturer your product, don't be surprised that the thieves will rip you off. That's how clones are often started. The original designer outsources the manufacturer to overseas production. They do that to lower the price point, but it comes at a cost.
re: "but you haven't proven that the device doesn't work."
Do you catch what Test 7 conveys? Missing internal components involving a front end filter? Que?
@@uploadJ Sure! But what's the impact on the real world use? You're not going to use a TinySA, any version, at a busy radio site and expect it to work, or even not get the front end blown out. It's a hobby tool, or one for a pro to use to check things on isolated sites. For simple troubleshooting, probably even tuning duplexers for a ham, it's going to be fine. None of this is lab quality gear.
@@tomsmith3045 re: "You're not going to use a TinySA, any version, at a busy radio site"
Surely you're not a noob? I have a water tower that shows within the 1/2 mile range marker on a shipboard X-band RADAR, and the amount of RF coming off that tower (ATT, Verizon, T-Mob, etc) with the spectrum that the 5G air-interface protocol allows presents a problem JUST using a regular scanner nowadays let alone a device w/o proper LP or BP filtering in the front end ... we aren't living in your Dad's RF environment anymore.
@@tomsmith3045 BTW, I'm the original designer of the 1 5/8" Heliax-based 6m duplexer (over 30 yrs back now), and I've had more than just 'tune up' experience in making measurements of 90 dB notches and pass bands on that tech. Best tool when tuning up individual notch stubs was an HP8640B generator and the 8405A vector voltmeter, and later used an HP8591E.
I no have clue about this device,,does it hocking naibor wifi and clone other stuff? feel free t answer, I'm not able to buy or do any things
Thank you, it's clearly a fake.
You are buying it at what is the internet equivalent of a flee market.
What do you expect?
A clever shopper can get some great deals but shopping there for precision equipment is silly.
Well... a lot of bla bla around a 1 minute test described on the website in 10 lines... no proof of what the real difference is in measuring or signal generating . Maybe it´s still usable for people who just want to see spurious signals or harmonics for a small amount of money ?. Someone else was describing the differences much deeper and , honestly, my 25000$ 1980 Ailtech is probably not more reliable than this clone... i still can use it for what i need mostly. ( i own a genuine ultra )
I am now in the market for a TinySA or a TinySA Ultra.
Banggood are offering the Ultra for about £ 100.00.
Obviously I am not able to check the Serial Number or the Firmware Version until I have the device to hand.
I have just subscribed to Erik's UA-cam channel "just in case".
So many clones.
Welcome to Chinese goods...
Chinese stores sell original goods as well. So welcome to the desire to save a couple of dollars.
Just pay a little more and buy the original product 🙂
For every great Chinese product there is also junk...not any difference than in the US or other country.
Thank you!