Why Were Secret Texts Left Out Of The Bible? - Alex O'Connor
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- Chris and Alex O’Connor discuss the lost Gnostic gospels. What are the Gnostic Gospels according to Alex O’Connor? Why doesn’t the church adopt these teachings according to Alex O’Connor?
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Why is no one talking about the discovery of Gospel of Barnabas
Lazy interview prep.This guy knows nothing. Get real experts
please have Dr Ammon Hillman on
wisdom of soloman was left out cause the solomon used the demons to help build the temple. then the templars caught the demons from the book and used it to write the banking system of fiat. so this booked was taken out cause 1561 the ganstrers told king james omit this book. enouch was read by abraham to his people, enouch talks bought fallen angels that are running us, so that books is out
These texts weren't "secret" at all, the orthodox Bishops owned and cited them regularly and in great detail in their refutational works.
No, they did not. While they talked about those texts they certainly didn't cite them. We didn't know what was in the gospel of Thomas until the 1950s when we found the text.
@@DDDarwin27 What are you talking about? Yes, WE didn't have copies of these books, but the Bishops writing against the Gnostics back THEN all had copies. Thus the books were never "secret", they just went "out of print". Also of course they were cited in detail, some were even literally fully copied into the polemic works like the "Summer Harvest" or the Epistle to Flora.
@@rxvyy "they were out of print" why do you think that happened? Quite a lot of people wrote against them. You say that all of them had copies... Text by saint Thomas in christian Europe that bishops write about (without citing any parts of the text) just goes out of print because nobody cares about it and it is only discovered in 1950s... How do you think that happened?
@@DDDarwin27 They went out of print because nobody believed in them anymore, not that complicated.
@@rxvyy interesting... I guess the bishops were that good huh... But why did they never cite any parts of the texts? They just wrote about how bad they are but never cited them in the refutations..
Asking why they were left out is a bit misleading given we have no evidence of anyone suggesting they should be included. There certainly was debate over a number of texts which could have been included but eventually weren't, such as Shepherd of Hermas or the Epistle of Barnabas, but none of the early canons we have included any of the gnostic works
By that logic, why should any text be involved in the Bible at all? Surely the authority of what should be in the book, is God and then lower down the ranking is Jesus’s disciples to decide what is worth keeping and what isn’t? Oh wait no, they died and then every religious institution after them cherry picked which ones to keep and throw out even though they have flawed human minds and don’t have divine authority. It’s all woo woo.
@@Jaanikinswell that’s not true at all. There were plenty of criteria New Testament scripture had to meet to be included in cannon, those early documents that didn’t meet the appropriate standard were rejected.
It wasn’t cherry picked 😂
They weren’t secret ffs
I think he acknowledges that the religious authority at the time knew of their existence
ffs man. come on! hahahaha
@@garethflook5706 the Biden defence, clever move bro
@@billytheripper4 ;0 come on man
That anyone is still seriously discussing why the Gnostic Gospels were not included in the canon betrays their lack of knowledge. The Gnostic Gospels are not "secret" and have been studied for years. This same topic was the subject of multiple books thirty years ago. Their development and transmission have been studied by scholars for decades. We know the community responsible for their authorship and why they were not considered authoritative by the early church. To present them with any level of mystery or conspiratorial intrigue is fatuous.
Bingo
Gnosticism is a collection of ancient religious ideas and systems which originated in the early centuries of the Christian era. Gnostic beliefs emphasize esoteric knowledge (gnosis) as the path to spiritual enlightenment and salvation. Here are some key features of Gnosticism:
1. Dualism. Gnostics often believe in a stark dualism between the material and spiritual worlds. The material world is seen as flawed or evil, created by a lesser deity (often called the Demiurge), while the spiritual realm is associated with a higher, true God.
2. Knowledge (Gnosis): Salvation is achieved through secret knowledge that reveals the divine nature within humans and the reality of the spiritual world. This knowledge is typically imparted by a revealer, often identified with figures like Jesus Christ in Christian Gnosticism.
3. Cosmogony: Gnostic texts often include elaborate mythologies about the origins of the universe, involving various divine beings and emanations from the ultimate source of all being.
4. Human Nature: Humans are seen as divine sparks trapped in a material body. Gnostics believe that through gnosis, individuals can awaken to their true divine nature and return to the divine realm.
5. Scriptures: Gnosticism has its own set of scriptures, many of which were discovered in the Nag Hammadi library in 1945. These texts include the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, the Apocryphon of John, and the Gospel of Judas, among others.
6. Diverse Beliefs: Gnosticism was not a unified movement but consisted of various sects and schools of thought, each with its own specific teachings and interpretations of the divine.
Gnostic ideas were considered heretical by the early orthodox Christian church. Church fathers like Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Hippolytus wrote extensively against Gnostic teachings, arguing that they deviated from what they viewed as true Christian doctrine.
@@rogerc23you mean like Christianity 😂
@@andredecock8361 you can say that. But then you need to ask yourself, why did Christianity succeed when Gnostics failed. Why did this religion thrive and change the world and create the greatest source of peace and wealth and growth in humanity and the others didn’t. What are the success factors. And you can say war and try to be funny but the fact is when they prayed to the Christian God and fought in his name they won.
@@rogerc23the idea that Christianity created the greatest source of peace and wealth is just laughably wrong. Peace in Europe is as recent as the development of the nuclear weapons. Meanwhile the Christian west used its technological advantages to enslave, oppress, and steal any where they were able. What a wonderful witness for the testament of Jesus!
These texts were not secret in fact some were actually considered for inclusion into the canon but rejected. The gnostic heresy itself was well known from early times also repudiated and rejected.
@@Friardavidosss Why isn't anyone talking about Gospel of Barnabas?
@@Friardavidosss What happens to the people that died before jesus came?
@@Friardavidosss Who created Mary the mother of Christ?
Why do they parrot the same already refuted points over and over?
Because they have nothing else.
Because "secret text" is a great title to gain more clicks.
@@jayjaygeez For clicks
Most of them were found to be fake, written long after the biblical texts (fragments of the biblical gospels go back to the first century). They also didn't line up with the Old Testament, which is a requirement.
That's just wrong, many of them were discovered in the Dead Sea scrolls and even older ticks.
Where there's power there's Taboo .... exclusion ...
Why is no one talking about the discovery of Gospel of Barnabas
@@marcusbillings1644the apocryphal books in the Nag Hammadi scrolls are not found in the dead sea scrolls, the Nag Hammadi scrolls are 4th century.
@faza553 nah, they simply don't meet the requirements to be included, and most were fake attempts to mislead early believers.
Most of the Gnostic texts are dated far later than the books Christians consider scripture. Some are reliably dated to the first century, but even then there are other Christian documents, letters, treatises, etc that are also dated to the first century that are not considered scripture. The Didache for example is a tour de force to orthodox Christian history and is dated to the first century, functions as a manual for "what christians must do and believe" in a lot of senses. It's like a distilled, action guide to being a Christian. It's not Scripture, but it's functionally identical to what Orthodox and Catholics claim is the foundation of the Christian faith even now, 2000 years later.
Gnostic texts don't really live up to scrutiny like that. Some of that is due to repression as the number of ecumenical councils grew and limited fringe Christian expressions, but mostly, the Gnostic takes just can't be reconciled with the historical record of what Christian leaders had been teaching since the first century writ large. Arianism was far more widespread than Gnosticism, including having the support of the Roman (Byzantine) Emperor but even still it died out while Nicaean Christianity lived on. There's a better case for non-Chalcedonian Christianity than there is for Gnosticism.
Easy they weren't consistent with both the old and new testament. Probably a good idea to leave out fake texts that say everything in the world is evil and women need to become men in order to be saved (so called gospel of Thomas for example).
St. Irenaeus
Every text in every holy book is fake😂
@@mdmazing183 so why do you care?
@@sdrc92126 Irenaeus didn't consider the Gospel of Thomas as reliable, authoritative or accurate.
@@Watheverable cant say they left it out cause its fake when everything else is also fake. It probably just didn't go with their agenda as what they wanted people to believe
The question is a fallacy. And secondly why are we asking Alex? Invite Bart Ehrman or John Lennox!!
They were left out because they were secrets. Secrets are often best in a non-published state.
The discovery of the Gnostic gospels raises the question, what part of our current culture will survive 2000 years from now?
Elvis.
That's about all.
People will write Trump 4024 but not really know why.
Meanwhile in an alternative universe comment section: "No, Genesis and Exodus wouldn't have been part of the canon because it's a heresy that is not considered authoritative nor orthodox"
@chriswillx ..when is the FULL podcast coming out
How do they know if these Gospels are wrong?
How do we know any gospel is right?
I hope he talks about the Ethiopian bible and the old testament as well.
Chris, it seems like you are exploring/seeking out a connection to Christianity. Is this influenced by your move to Texas, desire to date conservative American women, Peterson's increased religious focus, Eric Weinstein's comments on prayer in the most recent interview, or some combination?
Not expecting an answer, obviously, as it's no one's business. That said, I think it could be useful to you to delineate between religion & faith first. The factors that make them different alongside the benefits & the pitfalls. One can be present without the other.
All of that aside, there are some archeologists that would make for fascinating interviews from a different angle on this discussion.
Also, how are the new team hires doing? Everyone getting settled in to gear up for more awesomeness?
✌️💚 Modern Wisdom team
Elaine Pagels. Been there…..
Now bring NT Wright on the show to get information from a real Biblical scholar..
Ah yes the "secret" books that were either deemed heretical by early church fathers, forgeries, late additions or just factually wrong...
Better mention the Nag Hammadi scrolls (4th century) to add an air of legitimacy! People love exotic names!
You two could make a great couple.
Looks like he's wearing blue eye shadow on one of his eyes 😂
Alex!! Go man go
Should probably back up a bit and interview Theology scholars. I don’t get the craze of interviewing all these people who aren’t experts, in fact, in most cases they have no place to even speak on religion, let alone the apocrypha and pseudepigrapha….would be nice to get some actual intellectual discussion going on this. Guys putting his foot in his mouth.
No disrespect intended, but i encourage you to check out his content. His an extremely intelligent individual who regularly does religious debates.
He debated Ben Shapiro and recently also Dinesh, so I can reliable say that he is an expert in Christianty after watching a lot of his content.
He has a theology degree as well as a philosophy degree. So what are you on about 😂 you want to hear the things you want to hear follow your Shepard you 🐑
@@lukaipavle7776 I’ll look more into him! Thank you.
@@ItsZay999 yeah anyone who can’t even get the definitive title of the books he’s actually referencing, I’m not interested in whatever else they have to say. A degree in psychology is nice, but my mother has one of those and that doesn’t make her scholar of religion, she owned a rehab once 🤣😂🤌🏻 I’d rather people know the definitions of the books they are talking about because there’s 100s and 100s of books that people “say” are missing from the Bible, but when you dig a lil deeper, turns out….not so! Philosophers including Socrates ended up citing fake scriptures. This is something you’d know, if you bothered to listen to any THEOLOGY scholar on these books. Doesn’t matter what religion, either; Muslim, Christian, Jewish….they all say the exact same things. Have a blessed day 😎
He has a degree in theology and philosophy from Oxford. Also talking about religion is his job for the past 7 years... Just because he's an atheist and you are not doesn't mean he knows nothing about religion.
Gnostic gospels were left out of the Bible for the same reason the Harry Potter books were left out of the Bible.
Those early Christian's sure knew how to destroy a mystery and replace it with fuckery!
So they claim… much of what was left out of the modern Bible, was for controlling the masses and keeping knowledge restricted for the higher members of the church and society. There are plenty of fakes and bogus works that have been claimed to belong to these older collection of works, but the real, authentic ones promote ideas and messages that the early Vatican and rulers of the lands didn’t want their subjects to be aware of. Things that undermined their authority, under God. So, as usual, they hid it from their lessers.
@@barnz008 those Christians in the first couple of centuries were wild!
They were clearly anti-trans.
So because they were awesome and people actually wanted to read them, got it.
The issue with these gospels is that they were written much later than the gnostic gospels. An interesting fact is that we actually have the earliest Christian believes before the gospels were even written. If you want to know what the earliest Christians thought, look at the early creeds and hymns. They were created long before the gospels. This lays a foundation for what would later be expanded upon in the NT.
@@ActionRicker Why is no one talking about the Gospel of Barnabas?
@@nevergiveup5939 because it was written in the 14th-15th century
@@ActionRicker There are some of the current Bibles that contradict each other, Inspite of that People follow it, so why?
@@nevergiveup5939 because the Bible isn’t necessarily holy in the since of perfection, but rather it points to a holy being. The finger pointing to the moon isn’t the moon itself.
@@ActionRicker If god's word is supposed to be the accurate word of god himself,how are we supposed to trust it enough to model our lives after it 100% when hundreds of books were excluded from the original text throughout so many transactions ans revisions in History
These are not secret and to say they are is misleading. They were left out primarily because they were written by an unknown author, in a time period long after the author it's attributed to has died or was taken away, and contradicts the proven texts. This is nothing new and has been thoroughly discredited.
i wish we could see the like to dislikes ratio on this. i suspect theres far more dislikes than likes judging by the comments
No.
What
#11) Thou shallst not bro-out on the Sabbath.
#12) Thou shallst equally loveth thy redheaded stepchild.
Come on, gentlemen! , It's armchair theology! An idea for the next episode: Erich von Däniken's view of the Bible as the proof that we were created by aliens.
I'd watch that ngl.
Simon Peter: "What about Mary Magdalene? She should leave us."
Jesus: "But she's such a hottie! Can we just pretend she's a man if she stands close enough to me?"
Doesn’t “Draw her close to to me to make her a man” represent a particle split and reunion of that particle in Quantum Physics?
And doesn’t that correlate biblically to Adam + Eve = One, Ribs.
Why was the Book of Mormon left out of the Bible?
The Mormons are polytheistic! They are not trinitarian. They don’t see Jesus as the messiah!
Same reason the gospels were left out of the tanakh, it's made up nonsense
@@abelbabel8484 What are you talking about? The Gospels were written after the Old Testament, do you have any education about religion at all? Do you seriously not know that the Old Testament is part of the Bible?
@@rxvyy Oh that's pitiful, fine, I'll educate you.
Jewish canon was still debated back and forth in the 2nd century when the gospels were around. They actively called bullshit and left them out of their stuff cause it's some Mormon tier nonsense.
@@abelbabel8484 The scriptures were always Christian, Jewish opinion on Christian scriptures is not relevant.
uuugh ... UA-cam and personal ads
No. It was bad fan fiction -- and a hot topic -- not "secret".
This guy is a charisma vacuum
Some of those gnostics back in those days sounded rather queer.
seems the word "secret" has triggered some. Which i get, the titkes clickbait. Conetent was good tho
After reading a thousand books...you discover the kjv bible is the only true word of God.
Now add twenty five thousand audio sermons, as well and you realize nothing comes close to divine inspiration and perfection except for the bible. ❤
So you believe in every word on the King James Bible?
@@johnking5174 yep
@@S33THEFUTURE Right. And here we have the problem.
Get Dr. DC Ammon Hillman on.
Why an agnostic or atheist it's so obsessed with Christianity he has plenty of subject matter talking of Islam or other religions but what is his obsession with the religious beliefs that create the best morals standards
We are "obsessed" because these books are used by people to rule other people's lives. It can become dangerous.
Blah, blah, blah………Alex passes himself off as this biblical scholar, it’s quite humorous!
Alex has interviewed a great number of scholars and experts and his approach is very unbiased. I think he's acquired enough knowledge by now to speak freely on this topic.
@@user-vb4ws8jk8t whatever you say. Joe Scarborough also interviews a lot of scholars and important people and he is an idiot. I’m an idiot too and i can still spot when one hasnt studied a particular subject very well. Alex is an educated sophist.
What are you talking about? He has a philosophy and theology degree from St. Johns?
@@robsawalker so?
Why is no one talking about the discovery of Gospel of Barnabas
Because it's blatantly anachronistic and one of the most obvious forgeries in the history of religious texts.
@@rxvyy What if what is in it is a special truth? Most of the famous Gospels contradict each other
@@nevergiveup5939 Special truth? It pure nonsense, the author wasn't even literate in Greek or Hebrew. It's blatantly false and absolutely rejected by every scholar for centuries. The only debate was about the "Epistle of Barnabas" an entirely different text from the early Church, which is largely polemics against the Judeans.
@@rxvyy But there are contradictions in the current Gospels, and Inspite of that people are believed in it
@@nevergiveup5939 Bruh, the differences in the Gospels are about minor details, the "Gospel of Barnabas" got pretty much everything wrong you can possibly get wrong, including the places by 400 MILES. That's almost impressive to be that wrong.
i could listen to Alex for hours.
I’m truly sorry.
...are you sleeping during those hours?
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Elaine Pagels
Acharya S
Now invite William Lane Craig, Gary habermas or another REAL Bible expert to “un-Terrence Howard” the conversation about the Bible. 😂
Why is no one talking about the discovery of Gospel of Barnabas
Those aren't Bible experts. They are joke apologists. Craig is really really bad.
@@nevergiveup5939because it's insanely unreliable, not worth a mention.
That's a silly equivalency, especially as Alex has had folks like Bart Ehrman on his own show.
@@Watheverable What if what is in it is true, especially that there are many famous Gospels that contradict each other?
Super
A lot of religious folks in the comments here coping real hard 😂
Do better, Greenday
This guy has no ligitimate right to be talking about the gnostic gospels or any gospels at all. Pop speculation peppered with ŵiki fact.
So an atheist can not question the validity of any religious books? Nice to see dictatorship arriving from the Christians with that comment.
Phenomenally enlightening. ⚔️ Thank you! 🙏🏽
Why do you say so motivating quotes ❤
The answer is simple. Adding the secret texts to the official Bible would reveal the existence of Gakdar.
Before a bunch of Minimal Christians respond with "wHy wOuLD GaKDar HiDe frOM Us?"... I remind you that Gakdar is not just "hidden", He is the anti-revelatory aspect of Nature itself.
For the triggered Christians calling Alex a fraud, he has a degree in Theology and Philosophy from Oxford and has been engaging with top philosophers and theologians of our time for around 10 years now.
@@Zazacollector he should ask Oxford for a refund.
lol, imagine thinking Oxford is a respectable institution.
Well "Oxford" is not really an argument for credibility these days. And no amount of titles will change the basic facts about the matter.
We've seen in the last few years how "valuable" some degrees are
But he’s still a fetus.
Because Jesus is not God and they never wanted you to know that
@@Bun-N-Cheese the gnostic gospels defends he was ONLY God, not that he wasn't God.
The funny part is that Jesus is actually Super-God in the Gnostic texts. Might wanna read the texts before speaking about them my friend :)
[Unificationism, Rev Moon]
*Jesus resurrected spiritually.* Matthew, Mark, Luke and John contradict each other - they differ in how many people saw Jesus and how he appeared. Also, humans can touch angels that are spiritual (ex. in Sodom the people had sex with angels, an angel unlocked the jail cell for an apostle, etc). This explains Thomas's experience. The book of John is different in that it is the only book that says that immediately after Jesus's death on Friday afternoon, the priests oiled Jesus's body, and we can assume in a rush, because Friday evening is when Jewish Sabbath starts, and it is illegal to do any work all Friday night and all Saturday. So, the priests would have to oil and bury the body quickly by Friday evening, because the stench would have been too great. So, Jesus was in an unguarded tomb all Friday before the Roman soldiers came Saturday night.
[Unificationism, Rev Moon]
Genesis says that God's original plan for humans was for them to fufill the 3 Great Blessings, which was to "be fruitful, multiply and have dominion over the creation." In other words, humans are supposed to grow to maturity by attaining individual perfection, get married, have children, and have dominion over the creation as it's good lords.
The first Adam disobeyed God. When Adam and Eve "ate the fruit," they didn't cover their mouths, they covered their *sexual organs.* It's human nature to cover the body part with which we did something wrong. The "eating of the fruit" actually symbolizes a sexual act of fornication. In other words, Eve had a sexual relationship with a snake-like adulterer and came back to Adam and enticed him to fall sexually as well in a way where she dominated him and led them both to fall under servitude to the adulterer Satan. This is symbolized as passing fruit. They bore children of the wrong lineage - us. That's why being evil is like second nature to us - we are born with fallen nature.
As a result Adam blamed Eve, which led to their children, Cain and Abel, having a rivalrous and hateful relationship. They inherited selfish genes - "fallen nature" - tendencies to be selfish, jealous, murderous, arrogant, etc. This led to Cain killing Abel, the first murder in history and to humans inheriting fallen blood lineage, because we are their descendants. This is how evil came into the world and how society started off wrong by the older brother and established institutions dominating the younger brother and latter institutions. Cain as the firstborn inherited the fallen love of Adam and committed murder, so God had to side with the younger brother and latter institutions.
Originally, God did not create flesh to be evil. Physicality and sex is originally good.
The first Adam failed. So, after many generations of people who descended from the younger sons - Jacob, Joseph etc and from women who conceived in untraditional ways to change lineage outside their fallen marriages to fallen husbands - Tamar, Ruth, Bathsheba, etc Jesus could be born. Jesus had good lineage. He was the Only Begotten Son of God.
JESUS CAME TO MARRY AND HAVE CHILDREN WHO WOULD INTERMARRY WITH FALLEN HUMANS to help the latter restore their wrong blood lineage. He was supposed to fulfill God's original purpose of creation - the 3 Great Blessings.
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