This video was way more honest about the limitations with the Jessem than the other one I watched. Totally understandable that people don’t want to pay for the domino. It just comes down to how much you value your time
It's a lot less clumsy with the station and it will mortise on a bevel. Never as fast as domino but the setup he's using isn't ideal and when using the workstation it speeds things up drastically
The more I see videos on less expensive alternatives to the Festool tool, the more convinced I am that if I ever wanted to make a project with floating tenons I would save up to buy the more expensive tool. I learned an edict a long time ago and it is to always buy the best tool available that you are able to. It has not let me down in 40 plus years of working with tools.
I look at tools like this, after a few jobs I'll have made my money back, usually 2 or 3 fold. Tools can always make you money, a more expensive tool may hot your wallet harder initially but it'll pay off before you know it.
The dowelmax system is worth taking a look at if you haven’t checked it out before. It’s obviously not a domino, but it is fast, accurate, and repeatable (also quickly) and I think that makes it valuable for anyone who isn’t ready for a domino. Even my wife said “wood is expensive and you’ll make less mistakes with that right? So get it”. That’s the😊 easiest tool purchase I had in a while
@@liquidrockaquatics3900 I also got the DowelMax and have had great results with it. I've built benches, now building a door, and I'm sure there will be many others down the road. Get the holes in the right places (easy with DowelMax), no alignment issues whatsoever. I'm done with biscuits unless it's for something quick & dirty. I'm not going to consider something that's not self-aligning, like the Domino system. Dowels are also the strongest of these systems (lab testing done by DowelMax). Dust collection IS an issue with most dowel systems. I use a setup where the drilled piece is clamped upright, and another upright piece in proximity holds the end of the vac hose (clamp, bungee, rubber bands, or tape). Spring clamp to get workpiece aligned to vacuum, then screw clamp it rigidly in place. Working on a downdraft table would probably be easier but I don't have one.
Let's say you want to make a door and need 12 domino joint to put it together. That means you need to cut 24 mortices, which can be done very swiftly with the Festool, while you would still be fiddling with setting up this drill jig. If you make a lot of doors, or windows, or table tops, or furniture with floating tenons, it really does make a lot of sense to get the Festool because even if it is a big investment it is just such an efficient tool to work with. If you only need to cut floating tenons once in a blue moon you can of course not justify to pay the price of such a premium tool, and for those people I would recommend to either go old school and do hand cut mortices and tenons - taking your time and enjoying the process - or use a biscuit joiner, or a basic dowel jig depending on the application.
I agree with this. I really don't see what niche these other floating tenon jigs are trying to fill. Sure, you get to use Dominos for less than half the price, but also half the usefulness, convenience, safety, etc. If you're not in the market for a Festool, go with a solution that doesn't try to be a replacement -- dowels, pocket screws, traditional M&T, and glue will get you everything you need with less headache.
I was thinking the same thing. While this is technically an alternative, it is absolutely not an alternative as far as time goes. If you are doing any kind of production work, the domino pays for itself in time saved for sure.
I kind of agree. I think each tool definitely has a place. As for using a biscuit joiner or dowel jig in place of a floating tenon, I disagree to a degree. Biscuits are good for alignment but don't really offer any strength. Dowels offer good strength but don't have any wiggle room so it is much more difficult to line things up. With the horrible instructions aside a lot of the issues he faced in the video could have been solved by either getting the workstation (expensive for what it is IMO) or simply screwing the jig to the workbench. He was trying to wrestle the board and the jig at the same time compounding the issue. I personally feel this is well suited for the hobbyist teetering the line of being a startup business where you can't yet justify the domino but need something quicker and more precise than old-school techniques that take years to master. All that said I do hope to own my own domino one day.
@@davidp5492 you’re probably going to continue waiting. It’s been about to expire for years and years and they keep altering something on the design to extend the patent. But hey, anything is possible.
Even when I was a weekend warrior, I bought a Domino. My time as a weekender was even more important as I had less of it, juggling the shop work with my day job. 2 hours to cut mortice & tenons that won't be seen or 2 minutes to rout out loose tenons (that add just as much strength and STILL won't be seen) using the Domino... Hmm, let me see!. I'm not a Festool fanboy or advocate and do think that some of their tools are vastly over-priced considering alternatives are available (e.g. my Bosch Professional sander does, for me, a better job than a Festool Rotex for about £300 less) but in some cases, they do make excellent kit that in some way justifies the price tag.
I bought the TianLi jig a day or two after the previous video about it, I got it through United Clamps for $298 CAD ($222 USD) shipped. I use it with my Milwaukee M18 fuel hand router, but had to remove the back cross beam to make clearance for the battery. I also built a dust port that I attach via the jigs handle and holds my hose over the router bit, and it drastically cuts down on dust. In the last 1.5-2 months I've had it I've built a bookcase, a twin bed frame, and a kitchen island/cart all with floating tenons. The TianLi jig is quite well made, but is a little fiddly to set up and use so there was a bit of a learning curve to make it work at its full potential. On my last project it only took me a 5-10 minutes to set it up for use, and I got rock solid results. The first project I used it with took more time and some rework as I figured the jig out. As a hobbyist I can't justify the cost of the festool, but I bet it's much faster and a lot easier to setup and adjust, based on all the youtube videos I've watched.
Pask Makes a channel on here which shows you how to build a router mortising jig that has dust collection and looks easy to use and to do the job really well. It's made out of wood and the video is quite clear and easy to copy. He uses it for loads of his videos and it always appears to do the job quickly, accurately and cleanly and it'd costs basically nothing to make as you could basically use cut offs from other projects. Honestly I'd say it's by far the best option for a non professional/casual wood worker as it does the job really well, it's as good as free and at least as good if not better than the choices he's shown on here apart from the Fastool Domino.
"plus mine's ripped" got a good laugh out of me. It's a really neat device, and it's going to be helpful for someone out there. I don't need a Domino in my life currently, but when I do I'll put in the money for one rather than get the "like a Domino" stuff. Sometimes the ease of use is worth the price (plus the engineering). But for now my biscuit joiner is good enough for me!
I just got my JessEm Pocket Mill Pro the other day, and I must say it is pretty slick. I’m not a professional and couldn’t justify the extra $$ for the Domino. I think to be fair to JessEm you should have used it a few more times before doing the review and you would have gotten more comfortable with it. That said, I did also get the extra Workstation and it does make the setup very easy. Different strokes for different folks, but I am very pleased with my purchase. Also to be fair, I do enjoy your videos and have learned from them over the years, so keep of the good work!
It's great to hear you've had a good experience with yours. This is why it's important to get more than one opinion when researching tools. Thanks Brett!
The jessem dwelling jig is actually a best alternative to the domino ..its affordable and if you use it with the 1/2 " dowels it makes insanely accurate and stong joints ..pretty fast too
Exactly. Domino is proprietary and only intended for pro shops anyway. High quality doweling jigs are much cheaper because dowels are not patented and trademarked. So they will always be much cheaper. Even a dedicated doweling tool will be cheaper than the Domino simply because it can be made for the consumer market, not just cabinet shops. Also because the Domino is intended for a small market, they don't make enough of them to bring the price down. For most of us the dowel jib wins hands down.
I know is "socially correct" not to recommend expensive tools but is each person's decision. Is my money and my free time, that I value a lot, so I use Festool Domino in my occasional projects. In my 40 years of experience as a recreational woodworker, fabricator and machinist I always found better to buy fewer tools but of high quality, and take my time and save for the next one.
exactly, hobbyist does not mean poor but it does mean it's our side passion so less time for it. For that reason, I chose a domino. I can make more money, but I can't make more time.
Wow, we must be related. I’ve been a toolmaker and avid woodworker / fabricator for over 50. + years. Ain’t it great! I was doing mortis and tenon joinery on a Bridgeport back in the beginning. Hey you can always cut wood on a metal working machine, of course not the other way around 😜
It seems like a good alternative but I agree with you that it would be better with the jig. That being said, this makes price almost half the price of the 500 domino which would make a strong argument for me to go ahead and spend the rest and get the domino. I actually just purchased my very first ever Festool at age 63. I got the ct15 and the etc125 and the edge guide. The quality is insanely good and I do plan on more. Love all of your work but these cheaper tools and alternatives are really good.
A Domino is the one tool in my whole shop that I splurged on and I'm glad I did. I keep seeing gizmos that make joints "just like a Domino," but none of them do it as stupid easy and fast. All of those jigs will go into the junk drawer the second Festool's patent on the Domino expires and the market is flooded with less-expensive loose tenon cutters.
You're right in saying that a lot of "weekend Warriors" baulk at the price of the Domino, it takes a hell of a lot of wood working to make it worth your money. Part of the problem is that every UA-camr / influencer woodworker seems to use Festool / Dominos, it would be really nice to see more people use biscuits, dowels or traditional methods which are more accessible to most budgets and for the best part strong enough once you have slathered everything in glue. Don't get me wrong the Domino is cool and makes sense for a "professional", I'd love one but I just can't justify it. The Tianli jig looks great but I can't seem to find them to buy in Europe. There's a lot of benefits to UA-camrs showing off the alternative joining methods and teaching skills especially on more accessible channels.
I would pay a $1000 extra just to go back in time and not have to watch the struggle with that jig. It gave me the heebie jeebies to think how long it would take to do the 500 domino mortises I did on my last project.
He didn't set it up correctly at all and you don't need a centre line. I could see the whole jig moving while he is clamping. It is way more repeatable when mounted properly
Nice review. Despite what some UA-camrs say, it's always interesting to me to see how different a review is when someone has to spend their own money. I also wish UA-camrs didn't feel they needed to apologize for or keep caveating the price of Festool tools. Good tools cost money. If you can afford them, great. If you can't, then don't complain about those who can. Some weekend warriors like good tools and have money to afford them, and also have limited time to enjoy the hobby. There are always tiers of tools based on what folks can afford or justify spending, just like there are tiers of vehicles, houses, electronics, cameras, etc. Shouldn't be any judgment either way.
I JUST bought the e-bay tool. When I saw the title of the video my heart went to my throat. I'm glad that the tool I chose wasn't the focus of the video. I'm not sure I'd like to spend $500+ for a tool that required 2 or 3 packages and a few purchases to be usably quick. If I damaged my $195 jig I'd be very upset, and if I had the potential to damage both the tool ($350) and $195 jig I'd ask myself why didn't I just get one of the other tools. Thank you for demonstrating this tool!!
This series has reaffirmed "Buy Once, Cry Once" for me. If these alternatives were a $50 Harbor Freight jig ($25 with coupon), maybe it would be worth the pain. But at these price points, they're still moderately expensive with a lot of shortcomings.
Can’t thank you enough for the honest and very detailed review of the unit! I was contemplating to downsize my Domino dream but after seeing non-staged, actual use case of the unit I clearly see why Domino’s price is more than justified. Had very same finicky experience (to say the least) with BeadLock Joinery System by Rockler. Engineering quality of Festool’s systems and equipment is top notch and extremely robust, safe and user-friendly, whereas other manufacturers might be simply copying each other. I’m also a very loyal customer of Makita and some (not all) of their tools are extremely good. Great video, great content - you’ve earned a subscriber! ❤
I appreciate this. You pointed out some of the exact issues I thought I might be seeing on Lincoln's vid. I bought a similar "ebay" jig years ago, and it served me very well once I got familiar with it. The jessem looks cool, but clunky without the fence option. So I'd call this a necessary part, so a 550 tool. Still much better for a hobby shop than a festool, but I think they've got to refine it a good bit.
Using a Festool Drill to avoid using the Festool Domino. Classic. I still might try the previous one you tested and try to fabricate so type of dust collection for it.
Come on Jessem, it's 2023, get it together. Colored instructions or at the very least a full color pdf manual. And the launch issues could have been avoided. As for the jig itself, this doesn't offer anything over the jessem or dowelmax doweling jigs. Joints will be just as strong, the doweling jigs are easier to use (even more so with the dowelmax's integrated clamping) and you'll be saving a good bit of money overall. Even fully kitted out, this tool is approaching half the cost of a domino, which may seem like a huge savings, but that's not factoring in our most valuable resource: time. And fully kitted out is almost a necessity for this jig, otherwise it's too cumbersome IMHO. And that time factors in even more if you're making your own loose tenons. Buying festool's domino tenons is of course an option, but compare a pack of 190 6x40mm dominos for $31, while 200 1/4" dowels will be $14, or 200 3/8" dowels for $17. I've said it before, I'd love a domino for the speed and ease of use it brings to woodworking joinery, but my dowelmax has been serving me well. It's fast enough for me and the price was right.
It looks like there were some screw holes on the Jessem jig where you could screw it into the face of your bench. It seems like having the jig attached to the bench would go a long way to making it easier to use, if you didn't want to pay the extra $190 for the Jessem clamping jig.
You hit the target on the manual(s). I opted to buy the jig and it does handle the wood very easily and very well. The naming of parts between the mill manual and the jig manual do not always match. I fussed to JessEm about their manuals. I was also missing two screws, I sent them an email with what was missing and they shipped immediately, without question. I am certainly just a DIYer and do not want to sink the money in the Festool. With working with the JessEm tool, the setup will become easier. Good video.
Absolutely love my festool domino. So easy to use… expensive but definitely worth it. Once you use it you really don’t want to use something else. Quality product for sure. Just my opinion.
I don't have a Domino or that jig. That jig and the clamping system are $540 and the Domino is $1200. To me, the Domino is worth twice as much but for the weekend warrior like me; Dowelmax is a good alternative.
Yep. Dowelmax is amazing. Not as fast as the domino, but 1/5 the price, joints are just as strong, it's just as accurate, and it's incredibly easy to use. My dowelmax changed my domino purchase from "actively saving for" to "I'd love to have one, but no rush.".
As a hobbyist (at best) this seems like a valid option. The additional workstation doesn't seem too complicated to make. 100% get that if I did this for a living getting the domino makes sense. I might give this a try.
I'm a weekend warrior and I work mostly with metal fabrication but I love working with wood. As clever as the engineering is, I don't think I would use this more than the initial time. It looks really well made but seems too fiddly to be useful - even for me.
I think you should try it with the optional fence. Still not as fast as domino but much faster than the way it was setup in the video. The dust collection is top notch!
I watched the Lincoln St Woodworks video he mentioned in this video. Another view on whether this Jessem jig is worth it. He had the optional fence. Its $250. The jig is $350. Total of $600. The smaller 500 Domino is $1069. By the time you buy the Jessem fence and jig, you are nearly 60% of the cost of the Domino. Are you really saving enough money to justify going with the cheaper and far less convenient option of the Jessem over the Domino?
People shouldn't complain about the Festool products. They are for a very specific market...like you say, the Professional. For most of us, a really good dowel system will be every bit as good, it will just take a little more time to put the joints together. I have invested in the Dowelmax system as many others have, and have no regrets. Again, it is a bit pricier than some doweling systems, but is worth every penny due to it's accuracy. I may have to try one of these tools out though, it does appear to work really well.
Looks like a good idea for what you said Dave for a DIYer the only problem I can see 1 is that the tool is 350.00 OK that's fine 2 is now you have to buy the jig to go with it what's that cost 100.00 or even 200.00 now you spent 450.00 to 550.00 , I would just buy the Ebay tool for 200.00 and most wood works have Dewalt routers
I had access to a similar rig on a massively larger scale for cutting my had-built entry door for an old fashioned mortise lock. It had a crank that would step it down with each rotatiojn. This thing used a 3-HP router and clamped to the door. You had to center it and make the stop limits. The mortise was roughly 3-1/2" deep and 5-1/2" long, and used a 1/2" bit. Needless to say, it needed multiple passes to cut that out. And, don't even get me started on the pucker factor! Jessum makes some good tools, and I have their stock rollers on my tablesaw. It is nice to cut down on kickback, but I especially like how it the angle of the wheels keep your stock tight against the fence.
Here for the comments... Nice review I was able to get a domino early on here at my school. These others attempts are good but too fiddly for HS students, frustration would shut them down quickly. Thanks again David for the videos, I'm having my class watch your bandsaw box and use your book tomorrow to start their bandsaw box ideas.
I am by no means a professional, I maybe build 3/4 projects a month. I finally took the plunge and bought a domino 3 years ago. Although expensive, the domino is a game changer and IMO worth every penny.
I'm assuming the top part slides off so you have a more managable bottom piece, then you manoeuvre both your wood and that and clamp it at the same time?
Hi, I watched the Lincoln St Woodworking vid yesterday, and I guess it's all about preference, and you being a fussy knickers 😆. Someone said that he didn't go into the dislikes as much as you, I didn't see that. He did point out the things he didn't like they were just different to yours, but as you said it's not for the pro, more for a hobbyist/DIYer. Your finicky ways don't distract from your information vids, they're quite funny and add to the charm... Looking forward to more. Missed you getting done again watching that next.
The workstation clamping jig would make all the difference in the world. I have their dowel jig which also works with the same workstation jig. For the doweling jig it makes operations faster and the biggest reason I got the workstation is the ability to make fast repeated angled dowels, or tenons for this tool. I had to make 8 chairs that had angled dowels on the side aprons and stretchers (would have been 64 tenons if using this tool) it was as easy due to being able to set up stops and hold downs. You really should try it. Would probably change your mind.
I think that one idea you proposed is what I'm going to ultimately go with; I'm already making my own custom workbench on wheels, so I might as well make my own place to mount this. I don't currently do woodworking for income, so I had a tighter budget. My time is valuable, but not "$1200 for an average of 1-2 dominoes per week" valuable. My garage is also very space limited, so my workshop, gym, and bike rack take turns using shared space, and I need to be mindful of dust. So far, I'm quite glad I was able to pick it up for sale - only $250 for the Pocket Mill Pro.
Your description of the Jessem, and all the fiddly setup steps, make it look like a pre-production prototype, the kind of item you send to third party testers and incorporate their feedback into the design, then iterate the process until the major complaints have been addressed. Then you finalize production. For example, why are you struggling with aligning the surface in the jig? Wouldn't it be nice if it were self-aligning? Using your first generation purchasers as beta testers is a poor, but widely used, production strategy. I'll use the Microsoft purchase rule of thumb and wait for version 3. richard -- The engineering triad: - Reliable, cheap, efficient: pick two.
I don’t have any dedicated loose tenon making tools but I have seen most of them, the one feature that I don’t see on anything other than the domino is the ability to cut a mortise on the face of a large piece, like if you were going to put a fixed shelf in the middle of a large piece of plywood
I can't afford the domino and while I think its a really cool tool, I'd rather use the plethora of other joinery options than trying to futz with some hobbled together alternative that does the same thing. So many other joinery options out there. I do appreciate your time putting together videos on them, it's worth the content to do them. thank you for putting these out there for people who wish to try them out.
I'm with you, Joseph. As a weekend woodworker, I could quickly and easily use my inexpensive dowelling jig or almost as easily create a spline to join these two boards. Since I am a rank rookie who builds small, easy projects, I can't justify spending all of that cash for any of these tools. Heck, I could spend that cash on lumber instead.
With all that faffing in the first 7 minutes, I almost gave this up as a bad idea at that point. I endured to the end but with all the issues you had my first impression was reinforced. I'll save up for a Festool!
A lot of companies are doing similar photocopying instructions and the user can't read them clearly. Pictures are dark and flip back and forth between the pages to try making sense of them. One company at least had well folded pages in a booklet form that open out like a folded cloth you can spread out to extend the page and read everything you need to know in one place
As you said we that are just hobbyist woodworkers can take time to do the joinery. I do the loose tennons with a fixed base router and a fence just do it carefully so for me a domino is not even on my mind, about the jigs the Tiali looks very good option and if I ever get one can make many improvements like change the knob handle for a better one more similar to the handle of the domino, the router model or brand is not a problem is you have an smaller one you can 3d print a collar and if is bigger you can also print spacers and use longer bolts, also for the dust collection something can be made even for me is no problem since I work on the backyard and when the sawdust piles up just spread it around 😁
Thanks for video! I will be doing the patent bourbon moth hip thrust in the not so much distant future. Been saving up for it and want the no mess no fuss!
I don't mind paying for quality. But there is a difference between paying for quality and what Festool is doing. Festool makes good tools, no doubt about it. Where I object is they appear to set their price point for making a good profit, then tack on 50%. It's an advertising gimmick to make the public think their tools are better than they really are. They would make their profit at $500 and still have a good mark up, but sell five times the amount of product. I have paid, without flinching for top tier tools. I compare what Festool is doing to Snapon tools, way, way over-priced for the quality. Even if Festool gave me the domino, I wouldn't accept it because of their marketing policy. Besides I'd ratther make a true tenon. That's my opinion. I know others will dis-agree. Good video.
It looks like there are a couple of holes in the lower part of the Jessem that would allow you to screw it down. I think if you had screwed it to the side of your bench inside your clamp it wouldn't have been near as fussy.
It’s a big NEVER for me with the Jesums (?) piece I would launch it out the window within minutes of trying to set up!! So still FES for me (weekend warrior) as I do enjoy the best tools. However the EBay piece looks very usable to me?! Bob England
I struggled spending the money for my Festool Domino but in the end I am glad I did. It is a great tool. Is it overpriced -- maybe. That is the great thing about our free market system. The company can charge what they want and the customer can choose if they want to pay that price.
I guess the good thing is they give you an option to not spend an extra $200 if you are will to put the work into a shop made jig. Depends on how you value your time though. Seems worth the extra money to just get a Domino if you can, it just works so well.
I watched the other channel with his review and now yours and I will stick with my Tianli jig that I got a few years ago on Ebay. It is well made. It works for me. It is not perfect but I spent a lot less money than either the Jessem or the Festool Domino. I am not doing my projects for mass production and I don't always need to use loose tenons. One day, if I need more speed then I will consider the Festool. I have already decided that once my needs go up, I will go to the Festool and skip another jig. Great video and very informative.
This REALLY drove home what was apparent to me from Lincoln Street's video: This is just a cumbersome, finickey waste of money. I had a feeling that the "optional" jig was pretty critical to making the tool itself work smoothly, but this confirmed my suspicions. So the bottom line is that you can pay $200 + whatever the router and bit costs for the ebay option, which'll put you at at least $350 and then you have dust all over, $550 for the jessm + the "optional" jig and have a cumbersome, finickey toy that is capable of making loose tennon joints, or you can just drop the $1,200 once and never worry about the issue ever again. How many folks are going to buy multiple domino substitutes before they've just spent as much as they would have on a domino in the first place?
Good review, valid points, and props for mentioning Lincoln St. He did a good job too. PS, I bought my Domino last month after borrowing a buddy's for a project last fall that made that project's build-time cut in half...or more. Domino for the overall efficiency.
Is that Andrew Kline's Turbo Vice you're using? He has great ideas for new products. Loved the honest unopinionated and unbiased video you posted. Keep up the good work!
Looks like a good product for a hobbyist woodworker that doesn’t want or need the domino. I’ll take my domino all day over that though because time is money.
I think it's wise to hold off and wait until Jessem releases an upgraded version which hopefully will address the set-up and alignment issues. I'm sure their reply to complaints is that they offer the set-up jig as the solution. I suspect/hope the router based based system will be upgraded to include dust collection and a flip up guard over the router bit. For the $$ the router system makes more sense for weekend woodworkers. I'm sticking with dowels until improved domino units are offered.
I'd say this is true about pretty much any new tool or even most new products these days. It's rare for companies to put in the time and money on development and testing that's really needed when making something totally new. It's easier and cheaper unfortunately for them to get it good enough then use the first buyers comments etc to help them develop and improve it and remove all it's rough edges so to speak. It's rare to find something never made before that's a perfect product from it's first iteration. Also let's face it things always get cheaper after being made for a few years.
This is the 2nd vid I've seen about this product. Jessem is a great company that makes good products. But this isn't one of them, imo. It's over-engineered and the problems I see you having without purchasing the expensive other jigs just seems ridiculous. But, like fishing lures, sometimes the lure is meant more to catch the fisherman than it is to catch the fish.
Seems like with all the fuss that a simple, inexpensive ( less than $50) dowel jig is still the way to go when you can't afford the festool. But I guess everyone has their preferences. Nice video Dave!
Try securing the material in your bench vise then clamp the jig to the material with a small c-clamp. That should male the repositioning of the jig much easier.
Been looking at this tool since it came out. Looks like the price on the Pocket Mill Pro has been reduced to 250 USD (July 2024). I saw a sale from Jessem last week for another 10% off.
Oh btw, you can get a dedicated good quality doweling tool that drills two dowel holes at one time that has most of the features of a Domino joiner (adjustable angles etc.) for less than half of a single Domino. Just saying dominos are not the only game in town.
I don't make enough furniture to need a Domino but do have a biscuit joiner that I got cheap. I think I used that twice to make a panel for something - and I've used it to cut splines in a few boxes.
Like the other people covering this it all makes the Domino look like a bargain. At least it makes the leap a little smaller because it highlights how good the domino really is for that premium price tag.
For nearly 6 bills you’re half way to a domino, which is what everyone is trying to emulate. I will save up for a domino just like I saved up for my jointer, planer, sprayer, track saw and every other tool I have.
Great video. Would have liked to see you using it with the option fence jig. It looked very frustrating watching you using it in your bench vise. The other video I saw they had the extra jig, and the experience looked completely different. I also have the Jessem miter fence and stock guides and love them. As well I have the Jessem dowel jig, which I bought before owning my Domino, and highly recommend.
Thanks for the review, Dave! 😃 For me, if I could buy it, it would be more than enough. But, again, woodworking is just a hobby for me, so... 😬 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I see your comments on a lot of the same woodworking channels I watch, including lesser known ones. Keep that passion going! If you really want a higher end joinery system without a huge cost, consider the jessem or dowelmax jigs. The jessem is cheaper, but the dowelmax is easier to use since it has integrated clamping.
So what you're saying is, if I just buy more tools, all my problems will be solved. 🤔 My biscuit jointer is 1/8" slot cutter bit for my router. Think I've maybe used it once, a *long* time ago. It's clear to me that Festool is the obvious winner if you have a need for this kind of efficiency, but it's good to know there are viable (and not so viable) alternatives for those who want them and are willing to put up with their idiosyncrasies. I like having choices. Thanks for sharing!
The bit with the instructions in the beginning of the video....pretty funny. Especially the "plus mine were ripped" comment. That was great.
This video was way more honest about the limitations with the Jessem than the other one I watched. Totally understandable that people don’t want to pay for the domino. It just comes down to how much you value your time
Exactly! All the "it's just one extra step" issues really add up at the end of the day. Time is money, after all.
@@christopher_hawn It's a dozen extra steps and no one is going to use this product after the first day.
It's a lot less clumsy with the station and it will mortise on a bevel. Never as fast as domino but the setup he's using isn't ideal and when using the workstation it speeds things up drastically
But are you charging enough 'for your time' to pay for the Festool Domino? That is the question.....
@@brucewilliamsstudio4932 absolutely, I was very lucky to get a big enough job that it was paid for in that job alone.
The more I see videos on less expensive alternatives to the Festool tool, the more convinced I am that if I ever wanted to make a project with floating tenons I would save up to buy the more expensive tool. I learned an edict a long time ago and it is to always buy the best tool available that you are able to. It has not let me down in 40 plus years of working with tools.
I look at tools like this, after a few jobs I'll have made my money back, usually 2 or 3 fold. Tools can always make you money, a more expensive tool may hot your wallet harder initially but it'll pay off before you know it.
Definitely thinking Domino is buy once, cry once too... every Domino killer video shows nothing is killing the Domino
The dowelmax system is worth taking a look at if you haven’t checked it out before. It’s obviously not a domino, but it is fast, accurate, and repeatable (also quickly) and I think that makes it valuable for anyone who isn’t ready for a domino. Even my wife said “wood is expensive and you’ll make less mistakes with that right? So get it”. That’s the😊 easiest tool purchase I had in a while
@@liquidrockaquatics3900 I also got the DowelMax and have had great results with it. I've built benches, now building a door, and I'm sure there will be many others down the road. Get the holes in the right places (easy with DowelMax), no alignment issues whatsoever. I'm done with biscuits unless it's for something quick & dirty. I'm not going to consider something that's not self-aligning, like the Domino system. Dowels are also the strongest of these systems (lab testing done by DowelMax).
Dust collection IS an issue with most dowel systems. I use a setup where the drilled piece is clamped upright, and another upright piece in proximity holds the end of the vac hose (clamp, bungee, rubber bands, or tape). Spring clamp to get workpiece aligned to vacuum, then screw clamp it rigidly in place. Working on a downdraft table would probably be easier but I don't have one.
Let's say you want to make a door and need 12 domino joint to put it together. That means you need to cut 24 mortices, which can be done very swiftly with the Festool, while you would still be fiddling with setting up this drill jig. If you make a lot of doors, or windows, or table tops, or furniture with floating tenons, it really does make a lot of sense to get the Festool because even if it is a big investment it is just such an efficient tool to work with. If you only need to cut floating tenons once in a blue moon you can of course not justify to pay the price of such a premium tool, and for those people I would recommend to either go old school and do hand cut mortices and tenons - taking your time and enjoying the process - or use a biscuit joiner, or a basic dowel jig depending on the application.
I agree with this. I really don't see what niche these other floating tenon jigs are trying to fill. Sure, you get to use Dominos for less than half the price, but also half the usefulness, convenience, safety, etc. If you're not in the market for a Festool, go with a solution that doesn't try to be a replacement -- dowels, pocket screws, traditional M&T, and glue will get you everything you need with less headache.
I was thinking the same thing. While this is technically an alternative, it is absolutely not an alternative as far as time goes. If you are doing any kind of production work, the domino pays for itself in time saved for sure.
I kind of agree. I think each tool definitely has a place. As for using a biscuit joiner or dowel jig in place of a floating tenon, I disagree to a degree. Biscuits are good for alignment but don't really offer any strength. Dowels offer good strength but don't have any wiggle room so it is much more difficult to line things up. With the horrible instructions aside a lot of the issues he faced in the video could have been solved by either getting the workstation (expensive for what it is IMO) or simply screwing the jig to the workbench. He was trying to wrestle the board and the jig at the same time compounding the issue. I personally feel this is well suited for the hobbyist teetering the line of being a startup business where you can't yet justify the domino but need something quicker and more precise than old-school techniques that take years to master. All that said I do hope to own my own domino one day.
@@davidp5492 you’re probably going to continue waiting. It’s been about to expire for years and years and they keep altering something on the design to extend the patent. But hey, anything is possible.
@@michaellang9443 Its for pro cabinet shops. Its supposed to speed up assembly line work. Its not intended for hobbyist use.
Even when I was a weekend warrior, I bought a Domino. My time as a weekender was even more important as I had less of it, juggling the shop work with my day job. 2 hours to cut mortice & tenons that won't be seen or 2 minutes to rout out loose tenons (that add just as much strength and STILL won't be seen) using the Domino... Hmm, let me see!.
I'm not a Festool fanboy or advocate and do think that some of their tools are vastly over-priced considering alternatives are available (e.g. my Bosch Professional sander does, for me, a better job than a Festool Rotex for about £300 less) but in some cases, they do make excellent kit that in some way justifies the price tag.
I bought the TianLi jig a day or two after the previous video about it, I got it through United Clamps for $298 CAD ($222 USD) shipped. I use it with my Milwaukee M18 fuel hand router, but had to remove the back cross beam to make clearance for the battery. I also built a dust port that I attach via the jigs handle and holds my hose over the router bit, and it drastically cuts down on dust.
In the last 1.5-2 months I've had it I've built a bookcase, a twin bed frame, and a kitchen island/cart all with floating tenons. The TianLi jig is quite well made, but is a little fiddly to set up and use so there was a bit of a learning curve to make it work at its full potential. On my last project it only took me a 5-10 minutes to set it up for use, and I got rock solid results. The first project I used it with took more time and some rework as I figured the jig out. As a hobbyist I can't justify the cost of the festool, but I bet it's much faster and a lot easier to setup and adjust, based on all the youtube videos I've watched.
I have the Milwaukee m18 hand router as well, which Tianli jig did you buy? Makita or Dewalt?
Thank you for another unbiased review. It seems like the extra $200 for the jig is needed…which is not an insignificant amount of added cost.
That brings it to close to half the cost of the Festool. Bring in the awkwardness of the Jessem, it seems the Festool would be better to save up for.
even with that extra jig, which takes up space, you would not want to use this. that would be almost 600 bucks in the trash
Pask Makes a channel on here which shows you how to build a router mortising jig that has dust collection and looks easy to use and to do the job really well. It's made out of wood and the video is quite clear and easy to copy. He uses it for loads of his videos and it always appears to do the job quickly, accurately and cleanly and it'd costs basically nothing to make as you could basically use cut offs from other projects. Honestly I'd say it's by far the best option for a non professional/casual wood worker as it does the job really well, it's as good as free and at least as good if not better than the choices he's shown on here apart from the Fastool Domino.
"plus mine's ripped" got a good laugh out of me. It's a really neat device, and it's going to be helpful for someone out there. I don't need a Domino in my life currently, but when I do I'll put in the money for one rather than get the "like a Domino" stuff. Sometimes the ease of use is worth the price (plus the engineering). But for now my biscuit joiner is good enough for me!
I couldn't afford $1200 for a Domino. So I bought a $14,000 CNC Router instead, which cuts slots for floating tenons perfectly! -- Great video.
Haha! I’ve been there!
LOL
Hahaha I bitch about festool being overpriced all the time yet I have no problem dropping the same on some veritas or vintage Stanley planes lol
@@MintStiles Ha! I'm pretty sure we all do that!
You sir have earned your man card.
I just got my JessEm Pocket Mill Pro the other day, and I must say it is pretty slick. I’m not a professional and couldn’t justify the extra $$ for the Domino. I think to be fair to JessEm you should have used it a few more times before doing the review and you would have gotten more comfortable with it. That said, I did also get the extra Workstation and it does make the setup very easy. Different strokes for different folks, but I am very pleased with my purchase. Also to be fair, I do enjoy your videos and have learned from them over the years, so keep of the good work!
It's great to hear you've had a good experience with yours. This is why it's important to get more than one opinion when researching tools. Thanks Brett!
Agree, he made it look sloppy. Gotta have it set up properly. Also, his detent isn't working? Mine doesn't slide off the back.
The jessem dwelling jig is actually a best alternative to the domino ..its affordable and if you use it with the 1/2 " dowels it makes insanely accurate and stong joints ..pretty fast too
Exactly. Domino is proprietary and only intended for pro shops anyway. High quality doweling jigs are much cheaper because dowels are not patented and trademarked. So they will always be much cheaper. Even a dedicated doweling tool will be cheaper than the Domino simply because it can be made for the consumer market, not just cabinet shops. Also because the Domino is intended for a small market, they don't make enough of them to bring the price down. For most of us the dowel jib wins hands down.
I’ve got old festool items and I use them atleast every other day. Even though they are plastic they have held up and stand the test of time for me.
I know is "socially correct" not to recommend expensive tools but is each person's decision. Is my money and my free time, that I value a lot, so I use Festool Domino in my occasional projects. In my 40 years of experience as a recreational woodworker, fabricator and machinist I always found better to buy fewer tools but of high quality, and take my time and save for the next one.
exactly, hobbyist does not mean poor but it does mean it's our side passion so less time for it. For that reason, I chose a domino. I can make more money, but I can't make more time.
Wow, we must be related. I’ve been a toolmaker and avid woodworker / fabricator for over 50. + years. Ain’t it great! I was doing mortis and tenon joinery on a Bridgeport back in the beginning. Hey you can always cut wood on a metal working machine, of course not the other way around 😜
It seems like a good alternative but I agree with you that it would be better with the jig. That being said, this makes price almost half the price of the 500 domino which would make a strong argument for me to go ahead and spend the rest and get the domino. I actually just purchased my very first ever Festool at age 63. I got the ct15 and the etc125 and the edge guide. The quality is insanely good and I do plan on more. Love all of your work but these cheaper tools and alternatives are really good.
A Domino is the one tool in my whole shop that I splurged on and I'm glad I did. I keep seeing gizmos that make joints "just like a Domino," but none of them do it as stupid easy and fast. All of those jigs will go into the junk drawer the second Festool's patent on the Domino expires and the market is flooded with less-expensive loose tenon cutters.
You're right in saying that a lot of "weekend Warriors" baulk at the price of the Domino, it takes a hell of a lot of wood working to make it worth your money. Part of the problem is that every UA-camr / influencer woodworker seems to use Festool / Dominos, it would be really nice to see more people use biscuits, dowels or traditional methods which are more accessible to most budgets and for the best part strong enough once you have slathered everything in glue. Don't get me wrong the Domino is cool and makes sense for a "professional", I'd love one but I just can't justify it. The Tianli jig looks great but I can't seem to find them to buy in Europe. There's a lot of benefits to UA-camrs showing off the alternative joining methods and teaching skills especially on more accessible channels.
I would pay a $1000 extra just to go back in time and not have to watch the struggle with that jig. It gave me the heebie jeebies to think how long it would take to do the 500 domino mortises I did on my last project.
He didn't set it up correctly at all and you don't need a centre line. I could see the whole jig moving while he is clamping. It is way more repeatable when mounted properly
Is this really the way to use it? I'd imagine putting your board in a vise and clamping the jig to the board would be easier??
Nice review. Despite what some UA-camrs say, it's always interesting to me to see how different a review is when someone has to spend their own money.
I also wish UA-camrs didn't feel they needed to apologize for or keep caveating the price of Festool tools. Good tools cost money. If you can afford them, great. If you can't, then don't complain about those who can. Some weekend warriors like good tools and have money to afford them, and also have limited time to enjoy the hobby. There are always tiers of tools based on what folks can afford or justify spending, just like there are tiers of vehicles, houses, electronics, cameras, etc. Shouldn't be any judgment either way.
I JUST bought the e-bay tool. When I saw the title of the video my heart went to my throat. I'm glad that the tool I chose wasn't the focus of the video. I'm not sure I'd like to spend $500+ for a tool that required 2 or 3 packages and a few purchases to be usably quick. If I damaged my $195 jig I'd be very upset, and if I had the potential to damage both the tool ($350) and $195 jig I'd ask myself why didn't I just get one of the other tools. Thank you for demonstrating this tool!!
This series has reaffirmed "Buy Once, Cry Once" for me.
If these alternatives were a $50 Harbor Freight jig ($25 with coupon), maybe it would be worth the pain. But at these price points, they're still moderately expensive with a lot of shortcomings.
Can’t thank you enough for the honest and very detailed review of the unit! I was contemplating to downsize my Domino dream but after seeing non-staged, actual use case of the unit I clearly see why Domino’s price is more than justified. Had very same finicky experience (to say the least) with BeadLock Joinery System by Rockler. Engineering quality of Festool’s systems and equipment is top notch and extremely robust, safe and user-friendly, whereas other manufacturers might be simply copying each other. I’m also a very loyal customer of Makita and some (not all) of their tools are extremely good. Great video, great content - you’ve earned a subscriber! ❤
Dowelling Jigs
are also very very useful for reinforcing joinery
And very high quality ones cost 1/4 of a Domino. Just saying.
I appreciate this. You pointed out some of the exact issues I thought I might be seeing on Lincoln's vid. I bought a similar "ebay" jig years ago, and it served me very well once I got familiar with it. The jessem looks cool, but clunky without the fence option. So I'd call this a necessary part, so a 550 tool. Still much better for a hobby shop than a festool, but I think they've got to refine it a good bit.
Every domino alternative I see makes me realise just how easy we really have it 👍🏻
Using a Festool Drill to avoid using the Festool Domino. Classic. I still might try the previous one you tested and try to fabricate so type of dust collection for it.
Come on Jessem, it's 2023, get it together. Colored instructions or at the very least a full color pdf manual. And the launch issues could have been avoided.
As for the jig itself, this doesn't offer anything over the jessem or dowelmax doweling jigs. Joints will be just as strong, the doweling jigs are easier to use (even more so with the dowelmax's integrated clamping) and you'll be saving a good bit of money overall. Even fully kitted out, this tool is approaching half the cost of a domino, which may seem like a huge savings, but that's not factoring in our most valuable resource: time. And fully kitted out is almost a necessity for this jig, otherwise it's too cumbersome IMHO. And that time factors in even more if you're making your own loose tenons. Buying festool's domino tenons is of course an option, but compare a pack of 190 6x40mm dominos for $31, while 200 1/4" dowels will be $14, or 200 3/8" dowels for $17.
I've said it before, I'd love a domino for the speed and ease of use it brings to woodworking joinery, but my dowelmax has been serving me well. It's fast enough for me and the price was right.
It looks like there were some screw holes on the Jessem jig where you could screw it into the face of your bench. It seems like having the jig attached to the bench would go a long way to making it easier to use, if you didn't want to pay the extra $190 for the Jessem clamping jig.
You hit the target on the manual(s). I opted to buy the jig and it does handle the wood very easily and very well. The naming of parts between the mill manual and the jig manual do not always match. I fussed to JessEm about their manuals. I was also missing two screws, I sent them an email with what was missing and they shipped immediately, without question. I am certainly just a DIYer and do not want to sink the money in the Festool. With working with the JessEm tool, the setup will become easier. Good video.
Absolutely love my festool domino. So easy to use… expensive but definitely worth it. Once you use it you really don’t want to use something else. Quality product for sure. Just my opinion.
I don't have a Domino or that jig. That jig and the clamping system are $540 and the Domino is $1200. To me, the Domino is worth twice as much but for the weekend warrior like me; Dowelmax is a good alternative.
Yep. Dowelmax is amazing. Not as fast as the domino, but 1/5 the price, joints are just as strong, it's just as accurate, and it's incredibly easy to use. My dowelmax changed my domino purchase from "actively saving for" to "I'd love to have one, but no rush.".
As a hobbyist (at best) this seems like a valid option. The additional workstation doesn't seem too complicated to make. 100% get that if I did this for a living getting the domino makes sense. I might give this a try.
for $150, I'd rather just buy the workstation.
I'm a weekend warrior and I work mostly with metal fabrication but I love working with wood. As clever as the engineering is, I don't think I would use this more than the initial time. It looks really well made but seems too fiddly to be useful - even for me.
You hadn't even got the first board in the jig before I was grateful for my Domino 😂
Just knock together a quick doweling jig - DONE! It has worked for hundreds of years.
I think you should try it with the optional fence. Still not as fast as domino but much faster than the way it was setup in the video. The dust collection is top notch!
I watched the Lincoln St Woodworks video he mentioned in this video. Another view on whether this Jessem jig is worth it. He had the optional fence. Its $250. The jig is $350. Total of $600. The smaller 500 Domino is $1069. By the time you buy the Jessem fence and jig, you are nearly 60% of the cost of the Domino. Are you really saving enough money to justify going with the cheaper and far less convenient option of the Jessem over the Domino?
People shouldn't complain about the Festool products. They are for a very specific market...like you say, the Professional. For most of us, a really good dowel system will be every bit as good, it will just take a little more time to put the joints together. I have invested in the Dowelmax system as many others have, and have no regrets. Again, it is a bit pricier than some doweling systems, but is worth every penny due to it's accuracy. I may have to try one of these tools out though, it does appear to work really well.
Looks like a good idea for what you said Dave for a DIYer the only problem I can see 1 is that the tool is 350.00 OK that's fine 2 is now you have to buy the jig to go with it what's that cost 100.00 or even 200.00 now you spent 450.00 to 550.00 , I would just buy the Ebay tool for 200.00 and most wood works have Dewalt routers
I had access to a similar rig on a massively larger scale for cutting my had-built entry door for an old fashioned mortise lock. It had a crank that would step it down with each rotatiojn. This thing used a 3-HP router and clamped to the door. You had to center it and make the stop limits. The mortise was roughly 3-1/2" deep and 5-1/2" long, and used a 1/2" bit. Needless to say, it needed multiple passes to cut that out. And, don't even get me started on the pucker factor! Jessum makes some good tools, and I have their stock rollers on my tablesaw. It is nice to cut down on kickback, but I especially like how it the angle of the wheels keep your stock tight against the fence.
The manual is now on their website, and has color pictures and line drawings.
Oh that’s great! Thanks!
Here for the comments... Nice review I was able to get a domino early on here at my school. These others attempts are good but too fiddly for HS students, frustration would shut them down quickly. Thanks again David for the videos, I'm having my class watch your bandsaw box and use your book tomorrow to start their bandsaw box ideas.
Oh man, how cool is that! ♥️
I am by no means a professional, I maybe build 3/4 projects a month. I finally took the plunge and bought a domino 3 years ago. Although expensive, the domino is a game changer and IMO worth every penny.
It looks like the optional jig is something that you might be able to build yourself. Get on it, David!! 😂
I'm assuming the top part slides off so you have a more managable bottom piece, then you manoeuvre both your wood and that and clamp it at the same time?
Hi, I watched the Lincoln St Woodworking vid yesterday, and I guess it's all about preference, and you being a fussy knickers 😆. Someone said that he didn't go into the dislikes as much as you, I didn't see that. He did point out the things he didn't like they were just different to yours, but as you said it's not for the pro, more for a hobbyist/DIYer. Your finicky ways don't distract from your information vids, they're quite funny and add to the charm...
Looking forward to more. Missed you getting done again watching that next.
Thank you for showing up this tool, David P. Shootoe.
Domino came out in 2007. 3-4 more years on that patent. We're almost there.
The workstation clamping jig would make all the difference in the world. I have their dowel jig which also works with the same workstation jig. For the doweling jig it makes operations faster and the biggest reason I got the workstation is the ability to make fast repeated angled dowels, or tenons for this tool. I had to make 8 chairs that had angled dowels on the side aprons and stretchers (would have been 64 tenons if using this tool) it was as easy due to being able to set up stops and hold downs. You really should try it. Would probably change your mind.
I think that one idea you proposed is what I'm going to ultimately go with; I'm already making my own custom workbench on wheels, so I might as well make my own place to mount this.
I don't currently do woodworking for income, so I had a tighter budget. My time is valuable, but not "$1200 for an average of 1-2 dominoes per week" valuable. My garage is also very space limited, so my workshop, gym, and bike rack take turns using shared space, and I need to be mindful of dust.
So far, I'm quite glad I was able to pick it up for sale - only $250 for the Pocket Mill Pro.
Your description of the Jessem, and all the fiddly setup steps, make it look like a pre-production prototype, the kind of item you send to third party testers and incorporate their feedback into the design, then iterate the process until the major complaints have been addressed. Then you finalize production. For example, why are you struggling with aligning the surface in the jig? Wouldn't it be nice if it were self-aligning? Using your first generation purchasers as beta testers is a poor, but widely used, production strategy. I'll use the Microsoft purchase rule of thumb and wait for version 3.
richard
--
The engineering triad:
- Reliable, cheap, efficient: pick two.
It’s interesting to see new technology in this area. Perhaps one day someone will beat the domino.
Until then I'll keep giving you all my Festool sustainers. 😁
Even as a weekend warrior the domino looks like the way to go. I only have limited time to do projects so the quicker a process is the better
I don’t have any dedicated loose tenon making tools but I have seen most of them, the one feature that I don’t see on anything other than the domino is the ability to cut a mortise on the face of a large piece, like if you were going to put a fixed shelf in the middle of a large piece of plywood
You could easily clamp the wood to the inside face of the moving part of the vice then move the drill jig in to place with the board clamped.
I can't afford the domino and while I think its a really cool tool, I'd rather use the plethora of other joinery options than trying to futz with some hobbled together alternative that does the same thing. So many other joinery options out there. I do appreciate your time putting together videos on them, it's worth the content to do them. thank you for putting these out there for people who wish to try them out.
I'm with you, Joseph. As a weekend woodworker, I could quickly and easily use my inexpensive dowelling jig or almost as easily create a spline to join these two boards. Since I am a rank rookie who builds small, easy projects, I can't justify spending all of that cash for any of these tools. Heck, I could spend that cash on lumber instead.
Bingo. You can do floating tenons with a router and edge guide. If your router has dust collection you're ahead of most of these contraptions.
I'm glad the fan made a cameo on the bandsaw. That guy's family now.
I’m use my hollow chisel morterser set up on my drill press. Works great. Bu then, I’m a weekend wood worker so I have lots of time.
With all that faffing in the first 7 minutes, I almost gave this up as a bad idea at that point. I endured to the end but with all the issues you had my first impression was reinforced. I'll save up for a Festool!
A lot of companies are doing similar photocopying instructions and the user can't read them clearly. Pictures are dark and flip back and forth between the pages to try making sense of them. One company at least had well folded pages in a booklet form that open out like a folded cloth you can spread out to extend the page and read everything you need to know in one place
I used to complain about the price of the Domino. Now that it is a business expense, I don’t mind it anymore.
I purchased these with my own money.....from selling drugs 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 ya got me good with that one!
As you said we that are just hobbyist woodworkers can take time to do the joinery. I do the loose tennons with a fixed base router and a fence just do it carefully so for me a domino is not even on my mind, about the jigs the Tiali looks very good option and if I ever get one can make many improvements like change the knob handle for a better one more similar to the handle of the domino, the router model or brand is not a problem is you have an smaller one you can 3d print a collar and if is bigger you can also print spacers and use longer bolts, also for the dust collection something can be made even for me is no problem since I work on the backyard and when the sawdust piles up just spread it around 😁
Thanks for video! I will be doing the patent bourbon moth hip thrust in the not so much distant future. Been saving up for it and want the no mess no fuss!
Something like Rockler Jawhorse that you clamp by leg instead of hands could make the clamping without the jig easier.
I don't mind paying for quality. But there is a difference between paying for quality and what Festool is doing. Festool makes good tools, no doubt about it. Where I object is they appear to set their price point for making a good profit, then tack on 50%. It's an advertising gimmick to make the public think their tools are better than they really are. They would make their profit at $500 and still have a good mark up, but sell five times the amount of product. I have paid, without flinching for top tier tools. I compare what Festool is doing to Snapon tools, way, way over-priced for the quality. Even if Festool gave me the domino, I wouldn't accept it because of their marketing policy. Besides I'd ratther make a true tenon. That's my opinion. I know others will dis-agree. Good video.
It looks like there are a couple of holes in the lower part of the Jessem that would allow you to screw it down. I think if you had screwed it to the side of your bench inside your clamp it wouldn't have been near as fussy.
It’s a big NEVER for me with the Jesums (?) piece I would launch it out the window within minutes of trying to set up!! So still FES for me (weekend warrior) as I do enjoy the best tools. However the EBay piece looks very usable to me?!
Bob
England
I struggled spending the money for my Festool Domino but in the end I am glad I did. It is a great tool. Is it overpriced -- maybe. That is the great thing about our free market system. The company can charge what they want and the customer can choose if they want to pay that price.
Always good to see you stick to your upper Mid-west values and honesty in your reviews. Thanks for another good video!
I guess the good thing is they give you an option to not spend an extra $200 if you are will to put the work into a shop made jig. Depends on how you value your time though. Seems worth the extra money to just get a Domino if you can, it just works so well.
I watched the other channel with his review and now yours and I will stick with my Tianli jig that I got a few years ago on Ebay. It is well made. It works for me. It is not perfect but I spent a lot less money than either the Jessem or the Festool Domino. I am not doing my projects for mass production and I don't always need to use loose tenons. One day, if I need more speed then I will consider the Festool. I have already decided that once my needs go up, I will go to the Festool and skip another jig. Great video and very informative.
When you want to use it with your bench screw the angle mount to your bench and remove it when you're done.
This REALLY drove home what was apparent to me from Lincoln Street's video: This is just a cumbersome, finickey waste of money. I had a feeling that the "optional" jig was pretty critical to making the tool itself work smoothly, but this confirmed my suspicions. So the bottom line is that you can pay $200 + whatever the router and bit costs for the ebay option, which'll put you at at least $350 and then you have dust all over, $550 for the jessm + the "optional" jig and have a cumbersome, finickey toy that is capable of making loose tennon joints, or you can just drop the $1,200 once and never worry about the issue ever again. How many folks are going to buy multiple domino substitutes before they've just spent as much as they would have on a domino in the first place?
Good review, valid points, and props for mentioning Lincoln St. He did a good job too. PS, I bought my Domino last month after borrowing a buddy's for a project last fall that made that project's build-time cut in half...or more. Domino for the overall efficiency.
“Plus my instructions are ripped.”
“I bought these with my own money, by selling drugs.”
You’re killing me, David.
wouldn't taking the top piece off make it easier to clamp it? then once clamped put the top part back on to make the mortise.
Is that Andrew Kline's Turbo Vice you're using? He has great ideas for new products. Loved the honest unopinionated and unbiased video you posted. Keep up the good work!
"these instructions suck! I looks like it has been ripped in half!"
lol hey we're just havin' fun. Can we have fun?
Looks like a good product for a hobbyist woodworker that doesn’t want or need the domino. I’ll take my domino all day over that though because time is money.
I think it's wise to hold off and wait until Jessem releases an upgraded version which hopefully will address the set-up and alignment issues. I'm sure their reply to complaints is that they offer the set-up jig as the solution. I suspect/hope the router based based system will be upgraded to include dust collection and a flip up guard over the router bit. For the $$ the router system makes more sense for weekend woodworkers. I'm sticking with dowels until improved domino units are offered.
I'd say this is true about pretty much any new tool or even most new products these days. It's rare for companies to put in the time and money on development and testing that's really needed when making something totally new. It's easier and cheaper unfortunately for them to get it good enough then use the first buyers comments etc to help them develop and improve it and remove all it's rough edges so to speak. It's rare to find something never made before that's a perfect product from it's first iteration. Also let's face it things always get cheaper after being made for a few years.
Lol at the “plus mine’s ripped!”
This is the 2nd vid I've seen about this product. Jessem is a great company that makes good products. But this isn't one of them, imo. It's over-engineered and the problems I see you having without purchasing the expensive other jigs just seems ridiculous. But, like fishing lures, sometimes the lure is meant more to catch the fisherman than it is to catch the fish.
The more Domino alternatives I see, the better value the Domino appears!
Seems like with all the fuss that a simple, inexpensive ( less than $50) dowel jig is still the way to go when you can't afford the festool. But I guess everyone has their preferences. Nice video Dave!
It may just be easier to fit dust collection to the cheap jig...
Yeah 3d print something
Try securing the material in your bench vise then clamp the jig to the material with a small c-clamp. That should male the repositioning of the jig much easier.
Been looking at this tool since it came out. Looks like the price on the Pocket Mill Pro has been reduced to 250 USD (July 2024). I saw a sale from Jessem last week for another 10% off.
clamp the stock FIRST then attach the jig------much easier nice video thanx rick
Oh btw, you can get a dedicated good quality doweling tool that drills two dowel holes at one time that has most of the features of a Domino joiner (adjustable angles etc.) for less than half of a single Domino. Just saying dominos are not the only game in town.
I don't make enough furniture to need a Domino but do have a biscuit joiner that I got cheap. I think I used that twice to make a panel for something - and I've used it to cut splines in a few boxes.
You did a great job on selling the Domino - I am going out to buy one - and I already own one.🤣
I saw the Jessem tool and wondered about it.
I’m glad to see your review. It gave me an idea about what way I would prefer to go.
Like the other people covering this it all makes the Domino look like a bargain. At least it makes the leap a little smaller because it highlights how good the domino really is for that premium price tag.
Thanks for your review
For nearly 6 bills you’re half way to a domino, which is what everyone is trying to emulate. I will save up for a domino just like I saved up for my jointer, planer, sprayer, track saw and every other tool I have.
Great video. Would have liked to see you using it with the option fence jig. It looked very frustrating watching you using it in your bench vise. The other video I saw they had the extra jig, and the experience looked completely different. I also have the Jessem miter fence and stock guides and love them. As well I have the Jessem dowel jig, which I bought before owning my Domino, and highly recommend.
Your demo is a great advertisement for the Domino. ;D
Thanks for the review, Dave! 😃
For me, if I could buy it, it would be more than enough. But, again, woodworking is just a hobby for me, so... 😬
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I see your comments on a lot of the same woodworking channels I watch, including lesser known ones. Keep that passion going!
If you really want a higher end joinery system without a huge cost, consider the jessem or dowelmax jigs. The jessem is cheaper, but the dowelmax is easier to use since it has integrated clamping.
Clamp the board in the wise, set the jig on to of the board and use a pair of clamps to fix the jig on the board.
that would work on boards over 5" wide for sure.
So what you're saying is, if I just buy more tools, all my problems will be solved. 🤔 My biscuit jointer is 1/8" slot cutter bit for my router. Think I've maybe used it once, a *long* time ago. It's clear to me that Festool is the obvious winner if you have a need for this kind of efficiency, but it's good to know there are viable (and not so viable) alternatives for those who want them and are willing to put up with their idiosyncrasies. I like having choices. Thanks for sharing!