I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, Dave. Interestingly, I frecently purchased this recording and listened to it for the first time last week. I have to say that I was blown away by Ormandy's rendition of the "Symphonic Dances," which is my favorite of all Rachmaninoff's works. I just don't hear what you hear, or what you find missing in this splendidly played, vividly recorded and truly exciting account of the score. Yes, Ormandy is not as angular and modernistic here as some other interpreters (such as Askenazy's Brilliant account with the Concertgebouw). Ormandy brings out the Romanticism in the score, and there's even a lement of schmaltz, never a bad thing in this composer. And the coupling with Offenbach makes for a delightfully contrasted program. I listened to the recording again just now to make sure I wasn't imagining things, but my second auditon called forth the same response as last week's. Usually I agree with you when it comes to these "bad day" reviews, but not this time.
Well, I don't hear what you hear. I think Ashkenazy is sloppy and mediocre, fast but hardly "brilliant,", and whatever one can say of the performance, Ormandy's sonics are indisputably lackluster. To each his own.
My first encounter with this work, as a teen with little cash, was a cheap Turnabout recording with Donald Johanos and the Dallas Symphony. It is still a favorite.
In the last couple of weeks I have been exploring Ormandy's version of the Dances. I actually prefer this version to that of Petrenko that I also hear often. Ormandy refuses to emphasise the score's most bombastic moments. His understated approach makes us more aware of the overal narrative, not to mention the beauty, and singing quality of the most lyrical passages. I am intrigued by your statement that Ormandy (the work's dedicatee and an admirer of Rachmaninoff) did not like the composer's last work. I would be interested to read more about this - can you provide a reference for this statement?
@@DavesClassicalGuide I see your point (but also the full polychromy of Ormandy's version :) ) - in the meantime, I just found the info in Marston's CD booklet, ie. Ormandy's claim that the dances were not Rachmaninoff's best work, but also Rachmaninoff's letter suggesting that Ormandy's first performance of the dances was only partly acceptable - he seems to have preferred Mitropoulos! How interesting!
I’m right there with ya about collective nouns, Dave. I cringe when I here commentators pluralize individuals’ names; especially when they add, “… of the world”.
this amazing....on you tube music and amazon, ,where i see this cd ,that indicate the smetana and the rachmaninoff ( symphonic dances ) is conducted by szell....and the offenbach by ormandy....who make the mistake....?
Yes, the hit to miss ratio of this guy is astounding considering his very prolific (what an understatement!) output. And wow, what a legacy he left behind...
No spark, no swagger, no punch. He clearly didn't think much of the work. And it's not very late Ormandy. Other potential candidates for this series may be explained by old age (Klemperer's Bruckner 8) or (more tragically) by illness (Fricsay's ponderous Beethoven 5)...
I still like the performance even though Rachmaninoff didn't like the performance. The original LP was coupled with the Casella Paganiniana which is a unfairly neglected work.
I played the two piano version of Symphonic Dances, I love this last word of Rachmaninoff. It is such colourful music, obvious even in two pianos version beside orchestral version, by means of lush Rachmaninoff harmony and counterpoint. Sad, Ormandy and Philadelphians whom Rachmaninoff dedicated the work, sounds really uninterested in the recording. We can compare easily with another late work, 3rd Symphony, recorded by them as well (especially remake, released on Sony.) My favorite is still Kirill Kondrashin with Moscow Philharmonic in that case. The intensity in his recording is terrific. Thank you Mr. Hurwitz!
No surprise about this. There are a lot of us who love Rachmaninoff's earlier music but have never been as enamored of the later works like Symphonic Dances, the Fourth Piano Concerto, The Bells. Only the Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini is as loved as the 2nd piano concerto. Thank goodness for that 18th variation! That's a tune that the Symphonic Dances needed.
Good grief! I had earlier today listened to one of Svetlanov’s recordings of the dances. Then this video popped up and I had to listen to Ormandy’s version. What a dud. Listless, uninspired, blah. No life at all. It’s as though the orchestra was just playing it through in rehearsal and left it at that. I guess with as many great recordings as Ormandy had made he was allowed to mail one or two in, but this is a shame. The Philadelphians could have really nailed this one down. Oh, well. What might have been!
I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, Dave. Interestingly, I frecently purchased this recording and listened to it for the first time last week. I have to say that I was blown away by Ormandy's rendition of the "Symphonic Dances," which is my favorite of all Rachmaninoff's works. I just don't hear what you hear, or what you find missing in this splendidly played, vividly recorded and truly exciting account of the score. Yes, Ormandy is not as angular and modernistic here as some other interpreters (such as Askenazy's Brilliant account with the Concertgebouw). Ormandy brings out the Romanticism in the score, and there's even a lement of schmaltz, never a bad thing in this composer. And the coupling with Offenbach makes for a delightfully contrasted program. I listened to the recording again just now to make sure I wasn't imagining things, but my second auditon called forth the same response as last week's. Usually I agree with you when it comes to these "bad day" reviews, but not this time.
Well, I don't hear what you hear. I think Ashkenazy is sloppy and mediocre, fast but hardly "brilliant,", and whatever one can say of the performance, Ormandy's sonics are indisputably lackluster. To each his own.
Just remembered i have this on vinyl. Got to listen again. I remember not being blown away.
I believe there is a private recording of Ormandy and Rachmaninov rehearsing the work for its premiere. It is on Marston CDs or UA-cam.
My first encounter with this work, as a teen with little cash, was a cheap Turnabout recording with Donald Johanos and the Dallas Symphony. It is still a favorite.
And it's excellent.
If a conductor doesn't like a particular work it's unlikely we're going to get an inspired reading of it.
Ya think?
In the last couple of weeks I have been exploring Ormandy's version of the Dances. I actually prefer this version to that of Petrenko that I also hear often. Ormandy refuses to emphasise the score's most bombastic moments. His understated approach makes us more aware of the overal narrative, not to mention the beauty, and singing quality of the most lyrical passages. I am intrigued by your statement that Ormandy (the work's dedicatee and an admirer of Rachmaninoff) did not like the composer's last work. I would be interested to read more about this - can you provide a reference for this statement?
I am my own primary source ;). You can rationalize Ormandy's dull, colorless interpretation, but boring is as boring sounds!
@@DavesClassicalGuide I see your point (but also the full polychromy of Ormandy's version :) ) - in the meantime, I just found the info in Marston's CD booklet, ie. Ormandy's claim that the dances were not Rachmaninoff's best work, but also Rachmaninoff's letter suggesting that Ormandy's first performance of the dances was only partly acceptable - he seems to have preferred Mitropoulos! How interesting!
I’m right there with ya about collective nouns, Dave. I cringe when I here commentators pluralize individuals’ names; especially when they add, “… of the world”.
this amazing....on you tube music and amazon, ,where i see this cd ,that indicate the smetana and the rachmaninoff ( symphonic dances ) is conducted by szell....and the offenbach by ormandy....who make the mistake....?
Yes, the hit to miss ratio of this guy is astounding considering his very prolific (what an understatement!) output. And wow, what a legacy he left behind...
No spark, no swagger, no punch. He clearly didn't think much of the work. And it's not very late Ormandy. Other potential candidates for this series may be explained by old age (Klemperer's Bruckner 8) or (more tragically) by illness (Fricsay's ponderous Beethoven 5)...
I like the Fricsay
@@DavesClassicalGuide I find it far too slow but respect the context.
I dont care. I still crave for the Ormandy stereo box!
So do I. Of course not everything is wonderful. But a lot of it is.
I still like the performance even though Rachmaninoff didn't like the performance. The original LP was coupled with the Casella Paganiniana which is a unfairly neglected work.
Rachmaninoff never heard the performance in question. He was long dead.
@@DavesClassicalGuide sorry, conflating ideas. SR didn't like Ormandy's original performance at the premiere.
I played the two piano version of Symphonic Dances, I love this last word of Rachmaninoff. It is such colourful music, obvious even in two pianos version beside orchestral version, by means of lush Rachmaninoff harmony and counterpoint. Sad, Ormandy and Philadelphians whom Rachmaninoff dedicated the work, sounds really uninterested in the recording. We can compare easily with another late work, 3rd Symphony, recorded by them as well (especially remake, released on Sony.)
My favorite is still Kirill Kondrashin with Moscow Philharmonic in that case. The intensity in his recording is terrific.
Thank you Mr. Hurwitz!
No surprise about this. There are a lot of us who love Rachmaninoff's earlier music but have never been as enamored of the later works like Symphonic Dances, the Fourth Piano Concerto, The Bells. Only the Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini is as loved as the 2nd piano concerto. Thank goodness for that 18th variation! That's a tune that the Symphonic Dances needed.
Oh, you are sooooooo wrong! The first movement has one of R's great tunes.
Good grief! I had earlier today listened to one of Svetlanov’s recordings of the dances. Then this video popped up and I had to listen to Ormandy’s version. What a dud. Listless, uninspired, blah. No life at all. It’s as though the orchestra was just playing it through in rehearsal and left it at that. I guess with as many great recordings as Ormandy had made he was allowed to mail one or two in, but this is a shame. The Philadelphians could have really nailed this one down. Oh, well. What might have been!