Boarding Action! How And Why ALL 40k Factions Boards Enemy Warships! Warhammer 40k Lore
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- In a world of skyscraper sized guns, why would you want to board an enemy warship? For the space marines it's necessity, for the for the Tyranids it's efficiency and for the Orks it's because FUNNY! And now i kinda wanne talk about it all over again but ONE MATCH UP AT A TIME! For the world of warhammer 40k is ever full of fun detail
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I feel like the best guard against the space Marines invasion is just simply have your hallways too small for them to fit 😂
I feel like this would come up if they invaded a Votann ship.
While this is true, I can’t think of anyone really who would actually do this.
The problem is that all the sides which would conceivably do that either want the ability to transport their own marines, or they have similarly large units they need to move around.
I guess the Eldar might be the exception, but at least the dark eldar need to move cages full of variously sized animals and sometimes they capture Marines.
It might make sense for some imperial ship designed after the Hersey to have small corridors connecting the important elements like the bridge and enginarium, but most of the imperial ships were designed during or before the great crusade when the idea of imperial ships fighting against space marines would have sounded insane.
Chaos needs to move its own marines around and demons can get pretty big. They’re also mostly using imperial patterns of warships.
Orcs would probably want space most of all given the large size of many orcs, plus they wouldn’t care about being boarded.
Necrons don’t really need to board anything anyway, and their ships were designed long before Marines were conceived.
The Nids have big numbers of small creatures, but they also have to birth and transport the big bugs.
Brother I am pinned here!
That's kinda moot point, because door and hallways tend to be death traps for attackers anyway, so boarders probably prefer going through walls.
MUD would stop a space marine lol.
Orks boarding actions include: Ramming ship into enemy, crashing ship into enemy, or teleporting ship into enemy.
Yeah I was about to say, I am pretty sure that theoretically the Imperial Navy and Space Marines, aswell as the occasional and ambitious/war-minded Rogue Trader would be capable of engaging an enemy ship in an old fashioned 'ramming' boarding action.
One shouldnt forget that also the actual Boarding Parties and Armsmen aswell as any Ratings in the involved ship would probably put on Void-Suits as soon as the alarm sirens are to be heard.
You forgot teleporting the enemy ship into theirs somehow.
Also, *jumping* onto the ship. Because _orc._
Roman style baby
Don't forget leaping off their ship to leap at the enemies ship. It even works...Sometimes.
And boarding torpedo's.
I like the description in The Infinite and the Divine where the Ork Boyz are pack into a boarding torpedoes with dials and instrument panels painted on the hull. Those things don't do anything, but it give the Boyz something else to think about apart to the shoddy designed and built vessel.
I really like the boarding action from the devastation of Baal and especially the one in the talon of Horus
They don't do anything that *we* know about. Remember, Orks are all latent psykers and have a tendency to frak about with reality if enough of them think about something hard enough. Could be possible in a large enough boarding torpedo they actually would "do something" if you had enough Orks convinced they did, in fact, do something.
Based Orks
common ork W
Well yes and no. Orks know from other factions what a boarding vessel is supposed to look like, so they perform their crude understanding of the 'rituals', without actually understanding what any of it is supposed to do. It looks correct enough to an Ork, and that fact alone is enough to make it work.
There was a case in the lore where a Dark Eldar corsair was stupid enough to try and capture a dormant Tyranid hive ship that naturally woke up and proceeded to give a demonstration how they size a ship. The hive ship was still sleepy though and before the giant tubes got involved the ship of fools cut the tow cables and raced off still fighting the small army that had gotten on board. The Orks tried something similar but it was no surprise from them.
For Orks it was the intent for a fight.
How dumb do you have to be to board a Tyranid hive ship? Especially as a Dark Eldar? Do Tyranids even make for good torture slaves? I really doubt it... Maybe as an attempt to capture something homunculi want?
@@ActualDrunkAtheist For Orks, they just took the party over to another boat.
in the deamon kin codex there is a group that use warp talons to board hive ships and call in there force and dig in and get ready for a fight.
Just saying I like your Icon 😁😁😁
And don’t forget the One-Man Chaos Space Marine boarding party, ANGRON. Who, on a whim, is likely to open an airlock and hurl himself at an enemy ship, singlehandedly breach the hull, and who knows what next.
And remember, most of the World Eaters’ ships are specialized for boarding parties!
No party like a World Eaters boarding party!
@@Andri474 A World Eaters Boarding Party, Eh !!
That is the equivalent of that scene in Doom Eternal when the slayer loads himself into a canon. In both case, an actual spaceship grade weapon shot would be the more humane and least destructive option.
In the highly entertaining novel "Lucius: The Faultless Blade" we see an Emperor's Children warband (the Cohors Nasicae of Lucius the Eternal) *purposefully and unnecessarily* board a World Eaters vessel, partly to take all the mortals aboard (for various unspeakable purposes) and partly for the sheer gratification of humiliating and killing followers of the despised Blood God in close combat...
Sounds like he is just copying the orks
An hour long lore video of one of the best moments in 40k. Nothing says "Making an entrance!" like drilling into an enemy ship and just dumping dozens of Space Marines, or worse Terminators, to flood the ship/spacehulk.
Terminators teleport onto the ship.
My favorite description of this is Arch's video on what happened to the Nightlords that attacked a Blood Angels successor chapter. I imagine they would've PREFERRED it to have just been Terminators, rather than 300 frothing Black Company SMs screeching about Horus.
It’s a shame you never mentioned how the Iron Warriors boarded and used a Tyranid ship against the Imperial Fists…
Summary they kidnapped a ship from the hive fleet.
Pumped it full of obliterate virus, slapped all types of guns, canons and metal plates to it.
Then released it onto a world that the fists had a super base on and said “Fortify against this.”
“Parry this, you filthy f’king casuals.”
Oh God; using the Obliterator Virus on Xenos and the 'Nids in particular seems absolutely horrifying...
When the Expanded Universe came up with the Yuuzhan Vong, someone mentioned their use of boarding tactics were a threat the various Star Wars militaries were surprised by and completely unprepared for.
If they tried that in 40k it would be a great way to become every greenskins new best friend.
Because its a genuinely dumb idea that works exactly once - because stopping boarding in SW is as simple as slapping automated missile pods on the hull.
@@AlvorReal the only factions that routinely used boarding tactics were pirates and the separatists, the pirates used them for obvious reasons and the separatists only did it because they used battle droids.
But yeah, overall the factions in Star Wars will only do boarding actions if they have to but they were usually ready for them.
Aye. And for both it makes sense. The former would mostly be picking on merchants and civilian traffic, while the latter had as expendable an army as you possibly could.
The tech in starwars just doesn't quite facilitate boarding as a common tactic, imo, not the least for the relative closeness of most battles.
No boarding craft would go unnoticed and point defense guns would most likely shred them before any made contact... assuming the fleets weren't totally intermingled, which would only cause new problems.
@@AlvorReal especially given star wars fleets are both carrier heavy and not known for shoddy accuracy
Vong had a lot of capabilities that made that way more effective than anything the Empire managed to pull off. Especially those mini black hole shields making a joke of defenses. Though I did love the Spacetroopers from the EU, they were pretty awesome and served a similar purpose.
In the novel "Execution Hour" the second officer of the Dictator class cruiser "Lord Solar Macharius" led a boarding action against a ship recently turned traitor to recapture it. He figured the traitors would be far fewer than what their ship could send over and the Imperials would need every ship they could get.
How'd that work out for him?
They succeded well enough. Honestly Execution Hour and the sequel Shadow Point are well worth reading, with excellently written naval combat sequences.@@inquisitionagent9052
Never underestimate how remarkably expendable naval armsmen are. But yeah with the slave population of Chaos ships as long as you can deal with the occasional Chaos Marine and avoid ships with daemon shenanigans those would be good targets.
Tau boarding Tyranid ship.
*Hive mind: It's a bold strategy, let's see if it pays off for them.*
Tyranid: ooohhhh, they do delivery here! Yummy!
I do love to imagine how a boarding action takes place against a Tyranid ship, when the walls themselves are made of chompy teeth.
In the "Let The Galaxy Burn" omnibus, there was a story about boarding a hive ship, I believe.
Boarding a nid ship really just sounds like it would be a 3 day proctology examination
@@krissteel4074Gotta pull the rubber gloves waaaay above the elbow for this sphincter examination
@@Yokoto12343 The idea of SM terminators wearing rubber gloves is pretty funny
This was the entire premise of Advanced Space Crusade back in the day.
I always wondered why there was no Astartes Chapter/Legion that explicitly specialized in naval warfare.
Aren't the Imperial Fists meant to be the naval experts of the Space Marines? They have the biggest star ship in the Imperium at least.
@@imerror6224I never heard that they were naval experts
Because that is the job of the Imperial Navy. Space Marines are, despite their name, specifically meant for surface warfare.
True. It's implied that fleet-based chapters have such specialty by necessity, but the only chapters I can think of that are regularly credited with putting the "marine" in Space Marine are the Black Templars and Imperial Fists.
What is the point of creating the ultimate ground soldier, just to stick him in a position that a brain in a jar can do?
As an imperial gunner your immediate notification for when things are going horribly wrong is when the particular gun deck you’re stationed at, starts to slowly decompress of oxygen as vacuum fills in the space, the best naval combat I’ve ever seen was in the cartoon
Angels of death, in which an imperial battle barge is under attack by eldar raiders, in which the animation shows the resilience and resolve of you average imperial citizen, even if they’re expecting to die in the process and it shows you just how mentally insane they truly are, firing a macro battery broadside at the enemy knowing full well that the thermal shields are down and despite their world crashing all around them, their devotion to duty and sacrifice shouldn’t be underestimated and again, whilst your average imperial citizen isn’t entirely expected to die in combat and are weaker willed than soldiers, most imperial citizens tend to be more mentally capable compared to other civilizations due to their disposable and disproportionate nature of soviet in which everyone is a smelly, starving, poverty stricken cog in a galactic machine, and considering the religious and fanatical nature of most imperial citizens, not to mention the religious indoctrination since birth makes even the most humble of imperial citizens far more hardened than other civilizations like the federation or republic
In regards to space marines using melee, I recently modded a first person shooter game (Ravenfield) into a bit of a simulation. My side was Imperial Guard, and the enemy side were Space Marines.
The battle was predictably one-sided (even if we severely outnumbered the Astartes) but it was pretty interesting. Surprisingly, the easiest marines to deal with were the ones that hung back and allowed themselves to be pummelled with gunfire. The ones that were absolutely *impossible* to deal with were the ones that charged headfirst into your ranks, chainswords roaring. What are you even supposed to do in that situation? You can’t fight back. You can’t cut through their armour with sustained lasfire, because you’ll be cut to ribbons if you don’t run.
In the end, it seems like engaging in a firefight with space marines would be a far more winnable situation than if they just tore into your ranks with melee weapons. Your only survivable option in that situation would be to run screaming into the hills.
People who say that melee is unrealistic in 40k have no idea
Ah, Ravenfield. A school computer room classic.
Hey can you upload it? I’m a raven field fan myself
So worst to fight would be black templars while best would be pretty much any other fist successors
I think you're forgetting the fact that your friends aren't spacemarines, they're just covered in armour. Spacemarines have vastly superior reaction times and dexterity. They're typically hyper-intelligent as well with decades or centuries of experience, of which is mostly training and combat and very little else. Imagine if all of your friends were almost twice as accurate and fast as a Olympic target shooter. They almost wouldn't miss, modern soldiers miss almost every shot they take, spacemarines would hit almost every shot they take.
Arch showing Astral Claws when talking about loyalist space marines, nice!
At the time they were.
LUFT HURON DID NOTHING WRONG!
@@CallMeMrChainmail he did nothing wrong, until he did
@@mitchell3593 Dirty inquisition lies!
And then showing the Red Corsairs when talking about the heretics is even better
Orks are also known to perform boarding action on planets, by raming their vessel into it. Hoping to get entangled with it to swarm it and fight whatever is to be found their.
The novel Execution Hour does a very good job of showing off Imperial navy boarding actions. They are extremely bloody and brutal as you could probably expect.
1 hour of Arch lore and a takeaway. Today has been blessed by the God-Emperor!
Everybody asks wy boarding actions... nobody asks hw boarding actions..
I laugh every time I do a terminator lightning strike in Battlefleet Gothic, with the ship exploding 5 seconds after.
I remember in the Rogue star (a novel following a rogue trader family) they fought the tau.
While not boarding, they did describe tau suits landing on the hull disabling point defence and starting up their plasma cutters, so I think tau might at least strike surface systems pretty effectively.
That's a pretty ballsy move for the Tau, you'd think they would make drones for that, like ones filled with explosives and fired from a starfighter or something.
The only weakness I can see for Tyranids is biomass used for spore swarms and other space combat is probably going to be unrecoverable and replenishment in space is impossible. They probably have some hefty stockpiles but over a long series of engagements it could put the hiveships in jeopardy.
Actually the best tactics to kill a hivefleet is to try and kill the huge storage ships they have usually near the centre of the fleet and just watch the fleet starve to death. There are essentially two ways to do this: either through concentrated volleys of heavy firepower on extremly long range (which is gonna be hampered by every single hiveship even remotely in the path of the volley trying to through itself in the way to stop it) or by suicide runs just trying to bullrush your way to the storage ships (which is gonna be difficult because every single hiveship even remotely in your path is gonna try and stop you).
Actually the Tau may have the best chance to kill a hivefleet exactly because of their specialisation in long range firepower. Though they simply lack the numbers to actually pull it off.
Far as the Voss ships go, I think Arch is mixing 2 different bits of lore that came out during the Armageddon worldwide campaign, Armageddon class battlecruisers were heavily damaged Lunar class cruisers which were pulled in and in effect rebuilt, having their side batteries upgunned and a spinal kount lance added to create a new and easy to build/upgrade class of battlecruiser to the Imperial Fleet.
Voss was a Forgeworld near Armageddon which produced a series of ship classes that made up much of battlegroup armageddon, notable the Falchion escorts and Endurance, Endevour and Defiant light cruisers which were more line combat focused than the Dauntless found in most other fleets, the thing about Voss was its plasma reactor tech was a bit dodgey so the ships are characterised by a thin 'neck' which seperates the engineerium from the rest of the vessel (with big armoured panels on either side to mitigate the rather obvious issue with incoming fire) given where the bridge is likely located on these ships, whether the Imperial Navy Officers were aware of this particular reason behind the design quirk is unclear
I'd say the Tau boarding action is actually a fair bit better than your standard Navy Breacher/Scion. A swarm of Drones are quite good as a first wave then follow that swarm by a breacher team with the equivalent of a melta shotgun or a team of stealth suits with burst cannons. Not to mention Crisis Suits can actually fit in most corridors of a ship if the books are to be believed. There is also some esoteric lore about Void Suits which are meant for Space Hulk clearing with fusion blades but thats little known.
Tau use special XV46 Vanguard Void Battlesuit for boarding action rather than drones, breacher squads or XV8. Crisis suits are somewhat big for a range of aisles and corridors.
Also Tau drones aren't small enough to be putted in swarm-like quantities inside most transports without sacrificing other troops. Moreover, Imperial Navis Void-Jammers can use EMP devices on their Gheistkulls to easily disable drones en-masse and damage electronic systems in battlesuits, combat armour and energy weapons to a point of inoperability.
Imagine boarding an ork ship. Shoot the weirdboy and suddenly gravilty stops working and everyone gets sucked out the window the orks left open to get a breeze.
The closest reason I can think of for why an Eldar/Necron/Tau would want to board something (as opposed to disable/destroy it from a distance) would be to rescue someone or recover something valuable (a leader, someone with intel, a one-of-a-kind superweapon, an ancient artifact, etc). Plus the urgency of bringing it back undamaged would force said boarding faction to risk charging in while the guns are blazing instead of biding their time in a battle if a thousand cuts.
You're forgetting that the necrons have canoptic scarabs, which if they don't want to actually capture the ship in any way shape or form would double as quite possibly double as resources ready for extraction after the battle.
Those rams on the front of imperial ships as well as their superstucture that's the skeleton of the ship are made of a very useful metal indeed
Edit: also I think they would understand that doing this would double as a terror weapon on the people manning whatever systems are nearby
If Battle Fleet Gothic gets a 2nd edition, I propose we replace the Ordnance Phase with a Boarding Phase (also used for planetary landings).
Also the Imperial Navy the Emperor Class Battle ship has Shark Class Assault Boats used for Offensive Boarding.
Having played a lot of BFG, I'm not sure boarding happens enough to get a phase, I played Imp Navy vs mainly Orks and Chaos and although I always took the Sharks I don't think I ever used them, bombers and normal torps were just a better method of delivering damage, as for the Orks and Choas players, I never really had an issue getting boarded, decent use of fighters stops most boarding pods or torpedos and by the time vessels were close enough in for the other methods one or the other was usually about to explode due to all the broadsides and ordnance. Boarding happened to be sure, it just tended to be very situational.
Well, I also would like to make crews (as well as Squadrons) more integral to the game. To include Officers (for those duels) Aces and Heroes as well as crew tokens (using a single 40k model for one crew or officer unit) to add in more personality to the game. Correct me if I'm wrong but the only hero character in the 1st ed. is just Abbadon.
@Marinealver Honestly, that sounds a lot like the fantsy naval game Man-O-War (which Im only passingly familiar with, it was on its way out when I started seriously in the mid-90's) it had crew tokens and I believe functioned in the kind of way your describing, BFG was tbh didn't really fit that sort of personalised scale, it was very much in the Andy Chambers philosophy of 'Balance is all'. Personally, I'd of liked a larger, more active role for strike craft, but they were limited in scope due to that balance philosophy. Tbh, the character tended to be more in the fleet lists themselves, so a Segmentum Solar fleet looked different to a Gothic Sector or Cadian Sector fleet.
As for named actual characters, each fleet had an Admiral equivalent, but they were iust a stat line, it was more on the ships, so there were a few uniques like Terminus Est, Planet Killer etc. unfortunately, stuff like the surviving Gloriana's wouldn't be introduced till long after BFG had faded... I think there were a few bits in the Warpstorm semi-canon supplement like that (it was a 'offical' collection of White Dwarf and citadel journal BFG articles and rules) but I can't remember for sure.
@@maddlarkin I think it would be cool to have characters like Admiral Spire and Da Black Barron in the game.
@Marinealver maybe, but I'm not sure it would be BFG, the personalised scale or special abilities just wouldn't 'feel' the same, practically I gotta think the truly huge ships like Maccrages Honour, Phalanx or a Ramilies Class Star Fort would be a nightmares to keep track of... that said a Patrol game using BFG models, something akin to kill-team focused around a small group of ships like a single cruiser and escorts these ideas would be really cool in
Ship's Captain: Where are you going!?
Astartes: To go meet the new neighbors.
you can always open airlock (that's what colonel of 13 penal legion did when eldar's boarded his transport) he got rid of all attackers and half of the crew and his own legion in one move
Hey, they were criminals anyway.
Let us examine the kills:
Xenos: killing Xenos is always good.
The crew: it is better to die for the Emperor than to live for yourself.
The legion: They have found redemption through this sacrifice.
1:00:24 Apparently the Tau also developed a Pulse "Shotgun" of sorts in the latter parts of M41 too; would be handy for boarding.
pretty baffling this "40k expert" didn't know they exist. they, and the Breachers are made for this. typical imperial fanboy
boarding actions are probably the most actually absurd things in 40k to me but i love that they somehow exist
A boarding defense video would definitely be cool!
30:00 ah yes, I remember this tactic. It was the horror squads from across the map tactic as a chaos legion in DoW1 You get your main force (or decoy team-mate) to lock down the enemy forces then spawn streams of anti-infantry horrors behind them or next to their production facilities to cripple their ability to react.
Repeat until sufficient tears and victory points have been extracted.
I am surprised you didn't discuss the shark assault boat used by the imperial navy.
Loving me some hour-long lore videos. By the way, Arch, I'm looking forward to more Horus Heresy lore breakdowns.
real
Here here!
I want to point out that Commander Farsight boarded a Space Marine Battle-Barge in a battlesuit, and sabotaged the gellerfield generator that caused the ship to be flooded with deamons.
Good times, and it fun to read Farsight sightseeing around and finding exterminatus ordinance😂😂😂
I would like to see "Alterative Space Hulks" which keeps the same formula like Space Marine Terminators vs Genestealers but changes the factions a little
Tau Battlesuits vs Orks
Eldar Aspect Warrior Exarchs vs Chaos Daemons
How the fuck did a tau manage to board a space marine ship
@@moxtordoki96 plot armour invisibility. And more sales.
Farsight went from low key stereotype breaker to colossal plot armour arsehat. Thanks GW
@@moxtordoki96 Plot armour mostly. It was the Commander Farsight, using the first ever made Coldstar Battlesuit, flying into the Battle Barge (?), being ignored by point-defence somehow and then getting inside the ship through one of it's mass driver cannon barrels just as it was being reloaded.
Then, without triggering any ship-wide alarms, he managed to get into many corridors practically unnoticed (or, if noticed, ignored) until the Coldstar couldn't fit in the narrowed corridors towards the gellar field generator. So he went on foot from there.
Picture the image in your head, a semi naked Tau elder adorned in a anime tight-fitting pilot-suit, walking around Imperial corridors with naught but a Pulse Pistol.... It's kinda ridiculous, but arguably really fun to read.
Orkz once again have proven to be the patrician's choice in all things.
The Red Baron would play orkz wouldnt he. Red ones go faster 😎
On the one hand, the Tau do have close quarters weapons teams like Arch is suggesting they get: Fire Warrior Breachers, armed with pistols, grenades, and the Pulse Blaster which is their equivalent to a shotgun with Pulse technology. On the other hand....everything I just said.
It's Friday night, so I'm sure we all hope to be doing a bit of boarding action later on. You know what I'm talkin' about, lads!....
ahem
When did 40k first include boarding action? I’m curious as to whether it predates its inclusion in Star Wars via the Thrawn trilogy.
Since the late 80's. Been a thing since Space Hulk.
If i was a tau commander, i would just board with only drone. Just hundreds of drones, in the vents, ducts, ect.
sick, was just watching old lore vids
"Wy" did you misspell the video title?
Nope he wrote it right, I even checked. Feels like a Mandela effect tbh.
@leantondemartin3582 ugh I can't keep up with 40k lore sometimes I guess 😪
At this point im convinced he spells things wrong on purpose to get people to comment.
@@LethargicGMding ding , we have a winner
Darktide should add mission about boarding small heretic vessel and blowing it up:D
That would be hell.
That said, Deathwing see exists so they could rip plenty from it.
The simplest solution for the Eldar are warp spiders. They can just pop in and pop out where they want to.
There was one event where a tyranid spore had the poor taste to board a Carcharodon Astra ship. Unfortunately for it, Tyberos The Red Wake, Chapter master of the Space sharks was in a bad mood that day.
He told his chief librarian "one second" and slaughtered the entire SHIP and it's "crew" singlehandedly before coming back, uninjured, to continue the conversation with the Librarian.
I disagree with arch in the point of Imperial Navy don't do Boarding. There are specialized vessels, like the Shark Assault Boat, design to board assault, and Specialized navy personal as well: Imperial Navy Breachers, an elite force utilized exclusively to Board Action and Armed with Specialized weapons, such as Shields, Shotguns, Demolition charge and Chainfists (to cut through Locked Doors)
16:15 One nitpick: In space, speed and velocity are irrelevant in the context of boarding or void warfare. It is the relative velocity between two objects, also called deltas (at least in the Star Citizen community) that is the real kicker. But again, that's just a nitpick.
Eldar: Boarding? Ew. Why?
Eldar are the Apple of the 40K universe. If it's not already Eldar technology then there's no point in capturing it.
"When the target is immobilised, you can flood it with disposable minions."
Did I hear FIRE THE URSUS CLAWS?!
The Tyranid boarding tactics really seem well suited to using raveners and mawlocs - the former for slithering through vents and crawl spaces at high speed, and the latter for simply barreling down corridors with an open mouth, gambling that there will be insufficient firepower to kill them before they run into their next meal... XD
Thank god, some new lore to listen to while working.
Had to do a pepper spray certification today.
Thank God for a good lore video and Mexican food to make me forget my burning face.
HA HE MISS SPELLED WHY EVERYONE POINT AND LAUGH
CACKLE CACKLE
any video I watch, I like and comment on. Don't worry doing my part to help out with youtube. Love your work keep it up always hobby well listening to you. I am an old warhammer guy will never leave 7ed 40K, that or older. And Aos does not exist at all other than the models that still exist for old hammer example Blood dragons.
Arch just casually forgetting Tau Breachers are a thing who specialize in this type close quarters combat with Pulse Blasters (shotguns)
Well yes, but ONLY shotguns runs into the problem of those long corridors of murder.
Those are for urban fighting tho. Not boarding
@@johnj.spurgin7037 you realise shotguns have an effective range of over 200 meters right?
@@bartomiejboguski9676 they're for close quarters in general
I know they can@@Azorees-oj5zr, but this is a tau energy weapon (not a kinetic shotgun, ) and according to the stats on the tabletop they have dramatically diminishing potency as range increases, unlike kinetic shotguns. Hell, the Pulse Blaster's range is shorter than a pistol!
For anyone remotely unfamiliar of what an assault terminator is, imagine an eight foot tall man with an a10 strapped to their arm and a massive gauntlet in the other, as for their effectiveness, imagine parking an A10 warthog at the end of a corridor and on the other is the mass of unfortunate targets in which case they’ll be simply pulverized into chunks of meat, ofel and bodily fluids as a literal wall of 20mm HH velocity armor piercing rounds flies toward the again luckless target.
I would like a lore video on boarding defense from the individual species and factions and how it might change depending on the enemy
Orc boarding defense tactic: None. The orcs welcome any and all boarders and every single ork within the vicinity will just happily and recklessly without even the slightest hesitation charge the boarders with whatever he may have at hand at the moment.
Tau would want to board to rescue diplomats or politicians to create propaganda of a daring rescue. Assassinations on table too although foolishly. They would be focused on stealth battlesuits instead of breachers/Kroot/pathfinders. Rate of fire and avoid detection.
Ahhh, my favorite type of light cruisers. The Endeavor, Defiant, and Endurance classes. They may be slow, but they are tough little cookies. The Falchion class frigate was also developed at Voss and is another favorite of mine.
I loved the Falchions but I could never quite find a niche in my fleets for the other Voss ships cool as they were
@@maddlarkin I use them extensively in BFGA 2, especially with admirals with fast burn torps, Good for eyes and setting up melta torp runs on unsuspecting enemy ships
May the Emperor smile upon you, Arch 🤟
You know that boarding actions are powerful, since they used one to take away one of Arch's "H" in the title. An impressive feat to be sure.
Your whole pondering of why necrons don't just telebomb people makes me come up with two in universe answers.
1.Necrons have a code of honor and it is possible that "cowardly" destroying a fleet from behind would shame them in the eyes of other tomb worlds.
2. Going back to the war in heaven when Necrons had to fight the Krork, who we could make the assumption had a much more powerful "waagh field" back then, simple where unaffected by the telebombing. Think of it like this, the value of the Krorks are that they are huge bruisers who as along as they believe "It was made by the old ones, oh course my weapons/armor/tech will work" and will just keep going . There is every possibility that simple ignorance is what kept the Krorks ships going, so anything short of major bodily destruction of the ship would simply be ignored by the nascent green menace, just cause "The old ones made it, so it will keep working".
I would argue that Necrons having weapons on their ships would make sense despite having perfected boarding actions. Simply because the weapons they have were not meant for the current factions that exist in the current era. Their weapons were made to fight literal Gods. Species like the Old Ones, precursor Eldari, Krorks and other nasty things, and even then, they had trouble despite their advancement in technology. Not to mention the C'tan, which they barely succeeded against mainly due to surprise, throwing *everything* they had at them, and luck. All that with massive casualties.
Of Necrons fighting Tyranids in a boarding action: one thing to consider is the fact that Necrons actually do damage to the Tyranids. If you blast a Warrior with a bolter to chunks, the biomass is still there to recycle and make something else out of it. Getting hit by Necrons green beams of friendship is a one way ticket on a Nothingness Express. There's nothing to salvage there. Just poof. So the damage they will do to Tyranids of any size be it the smallest gaunt or the largest ship-creature is going to stick and cut into the resources way harder.
Necrons have actual chance in hell to out-attrition the Nids.
Necrons would stomp Tyranids. They offer no biomass to replenish Tyranid numbers with, but Canoptek Scarabs can eat dead Tyranids to build new defenses and units.
Basically one can replenish its numbers and the other can't.
2:50 One cold argue that not bringing your own oxygen when boarding a space spip is a bad idea anyway.
Black Library should have looked at how Battlefleet Gothic plays and lay down ship combat guidelines from that.
Last message from Pathfinder boarding team on ork ship sir mistakes with made. By the way, if my ship was being boarded by someone who wants to give me a very hard time, if they were to caption me, or the ship would be an asset to them, I would just blow up a ship. With them on it
Where a marine can go, a small Tau battlesuit can go. After all didn't the XV series have it's origins in space hulk exploration?
The navy has whole squads of breachers for the express purpose of boarding... Not sure why they got ignored.
Space Marine Captain : “Gentlemen, we seem to have neglected to return our good friends ammunition. We’re correcting that in person”
2:13 I'd like to see a full video on defending against Boarding Actions
Who would board a Tyranid ship? going inside the thing trying to eat you doesn't seem like a great idea, It sounds closer to food delivery rather than boarding
Arch forgeting names looks like an Old Administratum scholar giving an essay 😂
When it comes to terminator armor I always found it strange that in 40k it would be delegated to closer quarter roles. That makes little sense in regards to how armor works, usually heavily armored units with slow movement speed are delegated to positions were there is very little cover to begin with, making use of the unit being basically its own cover.
were as in close quarter engagements like in a urban environment you dont really see that armor being so effective since enemies can get closer and make use of armor piercing weapons more effectively. In close quarters you'd want a faster more maneuverable unit that can chase and evade using the variety of cover close quarters zones provide.
Frankly Depends on the opponet and enviroment.
If one imagines a guardsman as a baseline. The only "hand held"weapons they can potentially use in close combat is melta weapons / charges and lascanons (might be another but i cant remember)
The armor prevents anything smaller from being effective. The "energy " shield of terminators also prevents the "usefull weapons" from killing the marine from time to time.
A terminator also has better auspecs and the marine has faster reflexes allowing them to outshoot most ambushes or just plant himself and setting up a corridor of fire and simply shoot anyone stupid enough to peak. Also due to the teleportation tactic of the T800 marines. An enemy would have to anticipate the teleportation of the terminators , and reserve a lot of their heavy weapons to anticipating them. Ofc terminators are not used willy nilly , they are used in very important actions (survival of the chapter for example, or quieting down heavy weapons untill the rest of the marines arrive) , missions that only they can complete (a very hot/radioactive area), as a final hammer blow. At range however a termi is open to a lot of shit unless he is at extremely long range so only the longer range artillery can shoot at them , rocketlaunchers, artilery , aircraft, tanks , a lot of heavy weapons at extreme range ecc. In close , a terminator is the biggest fish in the sea (barring primarchs and some tyranids). Most combat (especially modern combat) relies (optimally) on combined arms , a terminator by it self is not that great but combine it with regular marines running wild, heavy weapons, tanks , artillery, guardsmen ecc. Basically if all you have is a potent lasgun, frag grenades , a chainsword , (hell even a heavy bolter mounted down a halway) you can not sucesfully engage a terminator in close and win you need to get a guy with an antitank weapon that can (unlike a rocketlauncher) be used up close and psyche him up enough to actually try.
@@JB-ls5pq Any sort of heat/krak explosives should be able to take down a space marine I would think. All they would have to do is get close to a regulars marine and boom that explosions is going right past the marines armor and pulping anything inside. These weapons are hand held like grenades or small rocket launchers. Because of how how heavy terminator armor it is cuts the marines movement and reaction speed in half basically. Giving them less time to react to sudden changes that are common in up close scenarios. Compared to range where the added sensors can track enemies from father away while also giving the marine more reaction time. Even the teleportation tactic makes more sense if you were gonna say port the marines into an open area with little cover thus reducing the risk of teleporting them into the wall of a cramped ship that they dont know the layout of, which would not only kill the marine but ruin the armor. Teleporting them in an open area means that its less likely the enemy will know where exactly they got teleported to as well. A terminator may be open to more attacks at range but the attacks themselves should be less effective compared to a group of people being able to literally run up right next to him and just explode.
@@GiRR007 who (besides an ork, a marine or a krieger ) would fire an explosive warhead at close range hoping that the terminator doesnt pull the trigger of his storm bolter before you can fire (a terminator might not turn as fast as his other bretheren , or parry as well but he can make minor aiming adjustements and pull the trigger just as fast hence holding angles/corridors and moving in a squad of termis to cover more angles, preferably supported by normie marines) also for rocket launchers, backblast can be quite an issue inside a building for anyone not in a fully enclosed suit (there are vids from the middle east and backblast is very lethal , they are ways to mitigate it such as salt water plugs in the exaust part of the tube butveven then you can not use it safely in every room) , one tactic that is basically available only to terminators is engulfing the area in flames and simply walking through (make the enviroment so hazzardus that nobody else but the termi can survive, or even moving through a heavily irradiated area where the enemy will have a difficult time of flanking you because they simply can not go many places) . And in order to commit to a possible suicide by explosive tactic(depending on the lenght of the corridor might not be suicide, but then again i do not know exactly how powerfull krak grenades for grenade launchers are but it seems like it could work, and if the first one doesnt do it , shoot him again) you need to have at the very least a grenade launcher loaded with krak grenades (not super rare but most of your boys will be running with different stuff) and if you blind fire kraks , you have probably missed him and the termi knows exactly where to send his high explosive shells thorwards (or his autocannon) .
What makes terminators quite effective (THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT) is the fact that they are ussually deployed (by vehicles or teleportation) into the location where the enemy does not expect to fight tanks (inside their own trench , bunker, building, gunline). They are not immortal and require spacemarine support to be effective outside of small scale engagements. Onto the grenades : In modern day at least most grenades for a grenade launcher need to cross a certain distance before the explosive is armed , it is a safety mechanism that exists to prevent you from accidentally hitting a wall near you and injuring your comrades through stupidity (40k OSHA might not be that strict however so it might not be a problem, or at least your problem anymore )
Problem with fighting a marine of any kind is that he has stupidly powerfull weapons that dont even have to hit you directly while most of your weapons (quantity wise) are near useless against them. Thing of The concept of severe overmach where the opponet has such advanced weapons , skills ecc. That you basically have to get lucky to take him out, imagine a bunch of spitfires going up agains an f22, technically they can hit him or make him run out of fuel and turn tail but it is not a good time for the poor sods piloting a spitfire , ofc you throw the dice enought times you are bound to get lucky , one example of that is a parachuting american pilot (ejected out of his aircraft) killed a japanese pilot (still in his plane) with his pistol but i wouldnt bet on similar situations happening often enough to be an issue.
I did forget to mention plasmaguns, dont know how effective those would be but i imagine quite effective at least at damaging the armor if not outright wrecking the marine inside (just reading from the 40k wiki, they can damage ork nobs quite heavily, a terminator is much better protected but a high powered shot or multiple hits by various weapons ought to do it). A terminator is a specialist that can either lock down a corridor , suprise the enemy by "spawing" a "tank" among them or supress a lot of the guns by just being there (nobody wants to get shot at by an autocannon ) and drawing fire from the heavyer ones till his quicker bretheren can close the distance. A terminator withouth proper deployment is dead weight and a massive waste of resources.
@@JB-ls5pq Id imagine anyone who is about to be gunned down by a bolter would try and take the chance to kill the thing that's about to kill them so quite alot of characters. Minor aiming adjustments and faster trigger pulling sounds like something that would be better suited for further ranges where you have a longer line of sight. And yeah true back blast is more of a problem in confined spaces making it less likely rocket would be used but as I said there are other armor penetrating tools that can be used used such as what basically amounts to an anti tank sticky grenade or what amounts to a bomb on a stick that you poke them with.
@@GiRR007 I have read the lexicanum just now and (this could easily be a case of writeritis) but apparently the chestpiece (thickest part) can survive a krak missle, even if we assume that a krak missle would go through the chest (and by extention the thinner parts) , that still ends up making krak nades less usefull (not completely, any piece of gear will eventually start falling appart given enough aplication of firepower, historical example is of one tigertank being disabled not by being penetrated but by being hit somany times most of the shit on it didnt work properly anymore, jammed turret, destroyed tracks ecc), melta would probably work but those are rare (not plasma rare but still rare), and finding a melta gunner willing to duel a marine instead of reloacating to another position with more firepower is difficult, and emperor help you if you do not hit the chest or the head (a "disarmed " marine is still a marine, and now he is pissed). flamers do not work at flushing them out, blowing up your previous position means it is now permanently abandoned and might not actually kill the bastard. like a lot of things in war the point is to make you abandon your previous position (for example: the position raining heavy bolter fire over normie marines) and make the enemy pull back, and not to slaughter every living breathing enemy (unless xenos or chaos are involved), (A bit of a digression here) a chaos marine will likely outmanouver a terminator so they work, while a chaos cultist is unlikely to have a meltagun but might have krak grendes and krak rockets of sorts (not terribly effective but can kind of work) . eldari likely have a lot of shit to kill a terminator or a marine, tyranids rip a terminator bit by bit (or with one gigantic claw), orks are orks and can either hack a terminator in a swarm of greenskin or splode a lot of shit untill something fails, the atrition of terminator suit is slightly below their production, a lot of suits (relative to their production) are lost ,
a lasgun (most common human gun besides an autogun) can technically kill a marine given enough volume of fire while it stands no chance against a terminator and a large portion of your manpower is useless against them, big explosive charges(traps for example) can kill a marine but a termi has a good chance at surviving, engulfing an area in promethum will kill/disable a marine while a termi can walk through. you limit the options of your enemy when it is very important to do so. and even with very sparring usage a lot of suits (and by extention marines in them) are being lost because they are the only ones who stand a decent chacne at succeding at certain very dangerous tasks. example of the calculusof terminator usage is "i have an x chance of loosing 2 terminators at worst or I am almost guarantied to loose 5 marines at best" which one should I choose?
Flesh terrers birding action = Yeet a few pods of angry angry guys in scary black armor and wait then send in a cleaning crew then tada you got yourself a new ship
Would you ever consider covering a home brewed chapter of space marines such as the Angry Marines?
General stubbs could do it as far as getting humans to the ship. I mean the guy managed to ship 100 baneblades in a day.
Out of all the things in science fiction boarding actions in particular make the least sense considering how fast ships would be going in the void of space. But at least in warhammer it has a place.
Speeds are relative, if both ships are travelling at that speed then crossing between them becomes a little more straight forward... but most boarding actions you see in the books are targeted operations, usually going for the bridge or a specific target to kill or capture a commander or high value target, occasionally to recover an artifact
Damnit. Now I'm going to end up designing and statting boarding action tau units.
Thanks Arch. My muse is insufferable when it's attention is piqued and you just did it.
But yes, video(s) on boarding defense would be fascinating.
The reason I see tau capturing vessels is resources. Even then, that would likely be supply vessels or pirates. The tau empire is supposed to not have the most resources, hence a major reason for expansion. So if they got the opportunity, and they do have breachers, drones, stealth suits, auxilleries, and maybe crisis suits to go in there. I think in the Jericho reach in the deathwatch rpg, there is lore of Tau marines that board and defend vessels. Is it likely tau make use of it? No but their not incapable and have some nasty options.
The orks would board the enemy ship simply because their captain told them "Get me that captains hat" and just to get into a scrap.
tight, cramped spaces help the marines, their unit efficiency is so high that lancasters square law just melts the lesser defenders
I would think that the reason you would want to practice boarding actions is because the spaceships are too massive to be fully destroyed, and you can't sink and be lost in outer space as you would on Earth, so it becomes economical to capture vessels.
Also, these ships are so voluminous that you could literally be fighting for weeks or months aboard the bigger ones. You could literally return to base after a space battle, with enemy boarders still locked in combat in the bowels of your spaceship.
Sorry I'm late to this one. I love playing boarding actions. The rules in imperial armour volume 9 blood in void are still awesome to use. Fighting outside on the ship as well as inside. Also their is story's that some ships are so big that they have their own micro atmospheres that surround them. So space marines can survive without helmets if lost.
46:00 Believe it or not we actually get to see a tyrranid ship digest an Imperial one from the POV of the crew in real time in a Black Library novel about the White Scars called Last Hunt. It was messed up.
As a massive Blood Angels fan and now owner of Space Hulk board game, I love this topic.
Tyranids don't board ships because nids are not a canonical part of 40k.
Your mother knows all about boarding actions.
Space Marines boarding enemy vessels really does strike me as the modernised version of how the Roman's tackled naval warfare; by turning it into an improvised land war with corvus boarding ramp.
Lore for the lore God! Bridges for the Arch!
This video makes me want to play Battlefield Gothic again
Sisters of battle being told no flamer is the fastest way to be found a burned corpse
56:07 Tau do sometimes harvest gellar fields from imperial ships
Time to play some Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 again
Tau boarding - torpedo with thousands of shotgun drones.
The DE even had a specialised enlarged boarding craft fitted to some of there ships called an “impaler assault module” that allowed for a force considerably larger than a squad to be put aboard
The imperial Navy would use Shark Assault boats for its primary boarding transport
SM forces as you said use the assault ram along with the good old classic thunderhawk
Chaos even use the dreadclaw drop pod for the job
Well I am curious about knights and titans
I in the Rogue Trader TTRPG Humans do indeed make Boarding Actions and even make use of Flame weapons whilst wearing environmentally sealed suits or armor like standardized Boarding Armor that even comes with a Light Carapace Chest Piece and Helmet with night vision. They can sometimes even use flamers in hard vacuum if it's using fuel with its own oxidizer as a nasty surprise in the void. Frag Grenades are still useful as they really don't have much armor piercing punch or a tremendous amount of explosive filler but make narrow corridors and especially airlocks absolute deathtraps. Melta Weapons/Charges can be used to breach bulkheads or walls if you don't care about collateral damage and don't aim them at the hull. There's even a Dark Heresy supplement called the Inquisitor's Handbook that has a lovely substance called Melta-Paste which is this tube of orange goop that can be squeezed onto doors like toothpaste and ignited with a potent electric spark and will burn through considerable amounts of metal in a minute or so without needing a Las/Plasma/Melta Cutter. Plus You're Forgetting even "Mere Mortals can have occasional access to the Shark Assault Boat To get high priority boarding parties to their targets.
I don't think a meltagun could do all that much harm to the outter hull of a ship that is meant to absorb and resist the energy of what amount to supernukes impacting it. Not even a puncture. I imagine you'd need very specialized equipment to start even attempting to puncture the hull.
The danger of heavy weaponry aboard a ship is less puncturing hulls and more about damaging critical equipment or starting a fire that would sap the oxygen around you (and kill you in the heat of the room, even if you were away from the fire the heat would absolutely start to cook you inside your spacesuit)
Considering the required manpower as well as sheer numbers of specialized equipment and personnel required undertaking such an action would be close to impossible, as arch said, given the sheer ranges most void battles tend to take place means that the ability to get close enough to either land or crash into said target is going to be incredibly difficult not to mention the numerous obstacles and AAA weapons in place, not to mention that anything too small can only carry about a dozen or so soldiers,trying to get more troops In would require more space and ergo requires a much larger ship which in turn makes the assault ship much larger and much easier to hit with flack weapons, not to mention the numerous other things like debris from damaged or destroyed ships blocking your path or colliding with the assault vehicle, resulting in the deaths of a dozen or so highly valuable resources, as an example look at the Star Wars LAAT gunship, it has a troop capacity of about twenty to thirty troopers along with a pilot, co pilot and two gunners resulting in a mere force of about thirty four average soldiers, again whilst clones may be tough and well trained, thirty regular soldiers against an entire warship with thousands of troops onboard as well as its dedicated defense systems, makes it dam near impossible, however replace the clones with say a shark assault boat which can carry twenty or so marines or hell a thunderhawk gunship in comparison can carry thirty fully equipped space marines is a different story entirely, not to mention that when it comes to boarding where ships have to be extremely close, there are ships which aren’t really ships for example necrom ships tend to be more sentient than anything else, not to mention that you’re trying to invade a massive shove stuffed full of angry necroms which can one shot soft or light targets in a single shot, not to mention their regenerative abilities and resurrection abilities makes them incredibly dangerous and extremely difficult to commit any boarding actions against, not to mention things like Tyranid bioships aren’t ships in the more conventional sense would be swamped with maggots as well as lesser organisms acting more like white blood cells in which case the hapless invaders would be swamped by a hoard of rippers and the same could be said for chaos ships, especially nurgle and zeeneech following warships in which, despite their external appearance are completely different on the inside where rooms are unimaginably large to incredibly small as well as having a different time scale in which an hour could’ve passed by in one room and in the next seconds could’ve passed and yet a thousand years would’ve passed by on the outside, as for nurgle warships it’s the fact that they are soo infested and rotting in which mere contact with the ship could lead to death via some disease or virus and if the invaders do survive, outside of a full decontamination they’ll simply pass on any diseases or infections to the others they encounter eg if a tau escapes they’re simply a walking plumage bomb waiting to go off