Jesus prayed to God, his father to show us to pray And because he is fully human, and fully divine, he had a very human moment, where he prayed to the Father for strength
With respect, saying that you 'don't have to play by those rules' when questioned about polytheism (which by the way you are, if you maintain that Jesus is *a* god, you are merely avoiding answering.
I'm sorry, but you guys absolutely butcher what Christians teach about the Trinity. Read St. Thomas Aquinas for a robust account of the doctrine, and then re-make this video. You do not understand the early church, because understanding the early church would make you realize that the apostasy put forth by restorationist groups to account for their radical divergence from historical Christian doctrine never occurred. I would urge you to read documents like the Didache (80 AD) and other extra-biblical documents written around the death of St. John, the last Apostle. For you to use Origen in defending your position is laughable, as Origen, a Father of the Church, is Catholic to the core. I think you must also recognize that the Mormon doctrine of God is not as clean as the modern LDS establishment would make it out to be--the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham offer radically different depictions of God, complicated by the visions of Joseph Smith and conflicting statements by authorities in your church; you also teach that God was a man. I enjoy your videos, but this is incompetent.
While your clarification that the Trinity is not Modalism at the beginning is valuable, and your initial definition is mostly correct, your perspective is deficient throughout the video. When you offer a counterpoint at 2:55 to Ian's explanation of Mormon doctrine by saying that it is identical with Trinitarian doctrine, you imply that the Trinitarian Godhead is composed of three beings--in God, being is identical with essence, as Being is God's very nature (Exodus 3:14), thus making God one Being who happens to subsist in three persons. At 3:02, you state that if Jesus is God, He must "encompass" the other Persons of the Godhead--each person of the Trinity is God given the divine essence that is their unity. God is also simple, and has no "parts" as you imply. I will not address Ian's flippant treatment of the councils of the Church, but he makes the most egregious errors. God is not a "unit," because God is not a thing in space and time, and Ian basically describes the Trinity in the modalist terms you rejected earlier in the video by saying that God is one person who functions in three purposes (modes). The Godhead cannot "separate" and the Father cannot be the Son, and neither can be the Holy Ghost, as each is a distinct person that shares a divine essence and is eternally united in the Godhead. Kwaku, there were "apostles"--they're called bishops, and the Catholic and Orthodox churches have an unbroken line of succession stretching from the Apostles who laid their hands on successors, on and on until the present day, which makes sense if you wish to avoid calling Jesus a liar (Matthew 16:18). Origen is Trinitarian, and has a systematic approach in addressing the subject. When Christ is on the Cross, he is not crying out to "himself," but to the Father, the one by whom he is eternally begotten. Also, in your treatment of Christology, you fail to realize that in the traditional Christian perspective, Christ is God AND Man, and that it is fitting for man to pray. A thorough treatment from St. Thomas: www.newadvent.org/summa/4021.htm There is no way you are getting three separate gods from the material of the New Testament without the teachings of Joseph Smith. This is a good treatment of the subject of the Trinity as a whole: www.aquinasblog.com/16-trinity.html
1. My counterpoint to Ian was of rhetorical nature, I asked him a question so we could explain things more. I clearly don't think the Trinity and the Godhead are the same. This is just a technique talkshows do, and we do it on the show all the time. 2. If The Father, Son and the Spirit make up God, then they have parts. That's just how counting works. 3. You're mixing the conversation about the Trinity and Apostolic authority into one, which is an impossible conversation to have. We really just have to deal with the one. 3. Well if Jesus isn't simply a part of God (he is God) and the Father isn't simply a part of God (he is God) then by all manner of logic, Jesus is crying out to himself. 4. I understand it's a mystery, but one can't honestly claim that we have butchered the understanding of something, while holding that understanding it is impossible. That is fallacious. 5. Your claim that you cannot get separate Gods from the material of the New Testament, without Joseph Smith is historically dishonest. If that was true, there would be ZERO record of multiple Gods in christian theological history before Joseph's ministry, and we show in this video that what you've stated isn't true. 6. Joseph Smith was right, because God the Father and Jesus Christ told him :)
Let me reply to each point: 1) I understand that you do not believe the Mormon doctrine of the Godhead is identical with the orthodox understanding of the Trinity. I was arguing that in your rhetorical rebuttal intended to clarify the LDS position in contrast with the orthodox one, you mischaracterize traditional Trinitarian theology, so the distinction you attempt to make is all but meaningless. 2) Nothing in my first response would suggest that the orthodox position holds that the Three Persons of the Trinity "make up" God. Such a notion is much closer to the LDS position. A Person is not a part. The One God subsists in Three Persons who share one divine essence. Just as you are one being, though you possess a self, self-knowledge, and self love that proceeds from this awareness of yourself, so God is one being who subsists in (1) the Father, the foundation of the Godhead, (2) the Son, the Father's cognition of Himself, the Word, who eternally is begotten as a Divine Person, and (3) the Holy Spirit, the Personal Love that is shared between the Father and the Son. A Person is a relation, not some kind of cog in a divine machine. 3a) The reason I bring up Apostolic authority is because you bring it up in the video to discredit the Council of Nicaea by erroneously claiming that there was no God-given authority on the earth at the time of its convening. 3b) As was established by my response to your second point, the Father is not the Son. See the First Chapter of John in any standard Protestant or Catholic Bible to clarify this point. I don't think you're getting what we mean by person and substance and the implications this has for our understanding of the One God in Three Persons. 4) God is beyond our intellects. He is transcendent, utterly majestic, infinite, and holy. What we can say of God we can say with certainty because of revelation, but we cannot say that our minds can sum up entirely the inner life of the Most High. We can discuss the Trinity, and come to a clear picture of it, as I have shown by my rigorous treatment of the subject. 5) To compare the polytheism of Smith with the theology of Arius is wrong. Arius taught of the Father and a created Son. Joseph Smith taught an infinite regression of gods spanning universes, councils of gods, and the copulation of gods to produce spirit children. To think Arius would countenance any positions similar to these is impossible. 6) Which first vision? There are several conflicting accounts of the First Vision. Any Google search will verify this, as it is well documented by LDS and non-LDS scholars.
For sake of not getting lost in the comments, I'll just respond to the big questions! 1. If the trinity is not possible to understand, than I can't be wrong for misrepresenting what no person can understand, because one cannot misrepresent or accurately represent what humans cannot understand. 2. The council of Nicaea was not literally organized by Jesus Christ or any of his Angels, just by men. I'm willing to accept the argument that the Bishops were the Apostles, but I do not see this argument as historically valid. 3. Your comment said "There is no way you are getting three separate gods from the material of the New Testament without the teachings of Joseph Smith." You did not say anything about The New Testament espousing Esoteric LDS doctrine regarding godhood. You're original comment is inaccurate, to say there is no idea of polytheism/monolatry in all of Christendom (before Joseph Smith) is false. We also never mentioned Arius as the sole idea of multiple Gods, so I'm not sure where you're getting our claims about him. You may want to watch our episode with Stephen Smoot, you may want to figure out what we're saying. 4. All of the First Vision accounts harmonize together, God and Christ are separate people, separate personages, separate beings.
I’m sorry guys but saying “ we don’t have play by the rules” is an incorrect thing to say especially if you’re claiming to be Christian . Trinity is one of the central aspect of Christianity . Trinity was taught way before 325 . Not believing in the correct biblical God is kind of problem for the religion . What hurts Mormonism so much is that everyone can be Gods , and that means every God is created , even the son (Jesus) and the “orthodox “ belief in Christianity is that the son has always been .
We will never not worship one God. God the Father will always be our God. He has glorified Jesus Christ through him finishing His atoning sacrifice. And Jesus Christ glorified the Father in saving us all from mortal death. He is our mediator with the Father. Many other Christians actually believe this too they just don't talk about it at church because they know how the people paying the preachers feel about it. But the scriptures are very clear. Very clear that we are the offspring of God, we are God's or better yet eons away we can be God's. I truly think the word God has been defined separately from what it originally meant. I think the word God in God's definition means eternal glorified being. But we will always love and worship our Father. And now Jesus and God will reign together forever and we will always turn to them and worship them because they have given us the chance at glorified physical bodies. I think the Ancient Aliens people gave us the best evidence of all time. Because God has a physical body it is just a glorified and eternal body. So of course people who don't understand who God a d Christ actually are, would perceive the stories, petroglyphs, and legends on the white God through out the world, as Alien's. If the standard Christian teaches you a lesser history on what God is, When you consider the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints stand people go oh wow so they're really are aliens! And yes I think we could perceived them as extra terrestrial. Glorified physical beings of eternal existence. Stop listening to your paid pastors who are trying to brainwash you into believing one way that they have governed as being the only way of thinking. Dive into your Bible and read and pray that God will enlighten your mind, and if you truly want to do His will, he will guide you to the truths.
The trinity was taught before 325 AD. You are missing the point. A lot of different Christologies were taught. There were many opinions. Arianism, Nestorianism, and Justin Martyr taught that there were two Gods Jesus being the lesser God. Some also taught that the Holy Ghost was a force and not a person ect.
Got a mouthful here. One thing I love about the Godhead is that it's actually mentioned several times at least in the new testament. The trinity belief that many people depend on so much, judge people with, is not mentioned in the bible whatsoever. Not at all because it came freaking over 300 years after Christ was born.. A term not like bible that just means library, but one that apparently dictates whether any is Christian at all... If you can't even show me one time in the bible that says trinity, at least show me where it says God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one and the same God. Or, show me where in the bible it says I aint Christian for not believing the Godhead is all one God. I bet you that's also unbiblical as well. I only worship one God the Father in Jesus Christ's name and believe the Holy Ghost helps reveal truth. That's not any different than someone who believes in the trinity praying the same way. I won't flip out if someone believes anyone of the Godhead is God too. But they likewise should be giving me the same respect if I believe Jesus Christ is a God in his own right but not as great obviously than God the Father. I believe the Holy Ghost is very Godlike for sure. I'm aware the bible says things like there is no other God besides me, no other God before me, or after me being formed. No savior but I. Any God besides me? No God. I know not any. Hence, I ask as well, who is talking? Because If Heavenly Father is talking, or Jesus Christ, are they lying because they are the same God?? Or is one lying because one of them is a God?? I know this was Jehovah, AKA Jesus Christ talking and no he was not lying. No question about it. Trinitarian believers would argue, the trinity has to work in this case because all three of the Godhead are all God. However, sorry but bible still says Godhead. Not the trinity which also claims the Holy Ghost is God too. But this was not the Holy Ghost speaking in these passages which people love to try to use against lds or non trinitarian belief. I can understand why and where any disagreements over who is God and whether there is more than one God happens. It still however doesn't change other things God the Son, Jesus Christ, also said. Responding to Jews wanting to stone Him for saying He and the Father are one, Jesus said is it not written, I said, ye are Gods? Referring obviously to when Jehovah, (Jesus) said ye are Gods and children of the most high. This is the same God the Son who also said no other God he knows of before or after but Him right? Right! I agree. Just as I agree with Him when He said ye are Gods and children of the most high. It is further taught in the new testament that the spirit, no doubt the Godly Holy Ghost, beareth witness with our own spirit that we are God's children. And if His children, then heirs, and joint-heirs with Christ. Christ is most definitely God the Father's ultimate child. The chosen one given godly power even before being born then becoming more, totally like God when He was resurrected. This all simply gives me hope that quite evidently like God the Father did with Jesus Christ, we all can be resurrected, glorified, and ultimately exalted or become godlike, or gods in our own right. We are all God's kids and heirs like Jesus if we so choose. I know we are already like God having spirits, bodies, and an imagination we can create absolutely anything with in our mind. Just as God can with the universe creating whatever he wants. No matter what you believe, you don't anger me for believing so different and Jesus Christ still taught to love one another. To love your enemy, love your neigbor, do good to those that do you wrong. No one here is my enemy. Trinitarian or not. No matter who you are from whatever Christ believing faith, if you can't follow at least what Jesus taught of loving one another then you're wrong. Because of Christ too, my strong faith does not dictate at all who my friends or family are. I suggest we all do the same to really show what wonders Christianity, what teamwork in general can do. 💛✊🏿💛✊🏾💛✊🏽💛✊🏻💛✊💛
This is a big reason why Latter Day Saints are not Christian or disciples of Jesus in any traditional or biblical way. The triune Godhead concept - 1 God in 3 Persons - is a central doctrine in biblical Christianity and predates the Council of Nicaea. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are co-equal and co-eternal Persons. LDS beliefs about God are, by definition, most certainly polytheistic/monolatristic. To deny this is simply disingenuous and false. Whether someone reveres or worships one god or not, the belief in the existence of more than one god, is by definition polytheism. "Mormons" believe in more than one God. Christians do not. Christianity and "Mormonism" cannot be reconciled. Subordinationism or ontological subordination was a belief, albeit a heretical one, held by some early Christians. This only proves that is was a belief along with many other heretical beliefs. Relational subordination is biblical, but it still is not in line with LDS doctrine. In LDS teaching, the Son is also ontologically subordinate to the Father. In Christianity, the Godhead (theion) and "trinity" are two words representing the same concept. The terms are distinct in "Mormonism" because "Mormons" hold a distinct view of God from biblical Christianity, among other things.
THE LDS WEBSITE TEACHES THE TRINITY AS DOCTRINE! www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/morm/7.5-7?lang=eng Book of Mormon, Mormon 7:7 "And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end." This UNambiguously states that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are ONE GOD, i.e. the Trinity. This agrees with the original 1830 Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi, at the end of Chapter 13, on page 120, where it is stated: "And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." (2 Nephi 31:21) FURTHER.................. In Mormon material, the Trinity is very clearly taught & emphasised as ONE GOD. For example: In the original 1830 printing of the Book of Mormon (I own a copy), in 2 Nephi, at the end of Chapter 13, on page 120, it is stated: "And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." (2 Nephi 31:21) The doctrine of the Trinity is on the Mormon website: " And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." The Trinity is taught AS ONE GOD in Mormon 7:7: " unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end." Further, the Trinity is also taught in Doctrine and Covenants 20:28 "Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God , infinite and eternal, without end. Amen." FOUR instances, taken from Mormon writings, stating that the three parts of the Trinity are ONE GOD. Therefore, I do not understand how a Mormon can deny the Trinity. If they do not believe in the Trinity, then WHY is it given as doctrine in these four locations ~ including their website? #
Shaun Anderson, come on, why would God create a state of confusion? The bible is incomplete, and many changes added in, due to the influence of the Roman Empire! The doctrine of the trinity is easily debunked, if you study the whole bible, and not just quote things out of it. You need to get your house in order please, before throwing unintelligent arguments and accusation's, that's going to have no legs to stand on, in this day and age!
The Trinity has been clearly disclosed by Jesus and is true, but the Trinity Doctrine - made in Nicea BY MEN ! - is false, against logic, those people simply didn't correctly understand the gospels. It is simply absurd maintaining that the Son of God existed before his generation!!! Sorry, what was then the purpose of it? This was stated by those people, not by Jesus : He said "before Abraham was I am" and this does NOT imply He always existed. In that theory the role of the Holy Spirit is simply TRAGIC : as God He should possess a mind and points of view, but neither the Father nor the Son EVER converse with Him: absolutely ignored; as GOD He is further BLASPHEMOUSLY represented (by a bird), as God's "Helper", He is not in a sufficient prominent position to have at least a Chair in heaven (only two of them !!)...a mistreated God. Absurd. Why do we go further defending an untenable doctrine ?
Shaun Anderson so you really believe Jesus prayed to himself.....and at his baptism he did ventriloquist and said he was proud of himself.....it’s in the Bible very clearly separates them..
@@daleroyster2144 Let's now focus just on the DIFFERENCES between the almighty God and God the Son (Jesus): the almighty God is the almighty God, whilst the Son IS A NORMAL MAN EXACTLY AS WE ARE, all different from God. Thus, we are in the SAME CONDITIONS as the Son : as we can talk to God, He can also talk to God exactly in the SAME WAY, thus, no ventriloquism ! It should be noted that God OPERATES in OUR dimension, but HIS PERSON LIES in a DIFFERENT DIMENSION, this is why Jesus said "no one has ever seen God". And now let's focus on the points IN COMMON between the almighty God and the Son, there's only ONE point in common: THE IDENTITY. Once I was a three years old kid. Now, my body has RADICALLY CHANGED and my mind has changed even more. Though, I still AM that three years old kid, my NAME and my IDENTITY DIDN'T CHANGE. Something similar happened to God: He got rid of THE EXCEEDING PART which distinguished Him from human beings to BECOME A NORMAL MAN. A quite dramatic evolution, but GOD'S IDENTITY DIDN'T CHANGE ! The Son thus "talks to Himself" but why should it be that weird ? For example you could read some instructions you wrote some years before to recall the steps needed in disassembling a determined car engine: in this example YOU GIVE SOME INFORMATION TO YOURSELF by means of a piece of paper. The Son thus talks to the Father to get information to always do correct things, He asks for miracles (the Father could even refuse to make them if harmful), the Son is guided by the almighty God when necessary...Jesus however CANNOT WORSHIP GOD because He IS that God, worshipping Himself would be a nonsense. ua-cam.com/video/8aQsGnoP80g/v-deo.html
Trinity = 3 persons, 1 God in substance or essence Godhead = 3 persons, 1 God in unity or purpose Mormons worship 1 God in unity, not 1 God in substance.
Black Dahlia “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD:” Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV Where does the Bible teach polytheism? There is ONE God my friend.
Vinsanity997 I am not advocating the Trinity at all. I am saying that they explained it well from a Trinitarian point of view to their opponents. I am a Latter Day Saint myself, and in no shape or form hold to the doctrine of the Trinity. My apologies for not clarifying what I meant. Have a good rest of your day bro.
As I understand the Trinity, it is defined this way by traditional/creedal Christians: - 3 persons, not separate beings - as Leo says below, according to creedal Christians the Trinity members are united in substance; not separate beings Christians understand the term "person" -- in relation to the members of the Trinity -- differently than in other contexts. These 3 Trinity members are referred to by Christians as 3 separate persons, but not separate in terms of substance. Not separate beings or individuals. The LDS Godhead is not based in creeds, but in revelation. The LDS Godhood is composed of 3 completely separate beings, personages, beings. No special definitions.
@@jjfresh343 The Holy Spirit is separate in the same way -- according to our LDS faith -- the Father and Son are separate. They're completely separate individuals, beings. The Trinity is based on Greek philosophy. It's a philosophical explanation to solve a problem that existed in the Church at the time: they didn't want to be labeled as polytheists (believing in 2 Gods: God the Father and God the Son). Nothing known in the universe is composed on 3 persons but 1 being. It's a metaphysical description of an idea. An idea that is contradictory.
This is polytheistic, there are 3 gods being worshipped and there are other gods in existence equal to the father because the father is only one god among many that became god, this is somewhat hypocritical.
I can help you understand the Triune God (Trinity) using a ONE word answer. Ready? Trinity, Trinity, Trinity. How many words did I use? One, and yet Three. One word and yet three distinct, but no different. Totally equal in nature and each one a complete representation of the others and the three as a whole, that there are three, (a Trinity). One in nature, three distinct, co-equal and one in purpose also. God bless.
Practical Faith - Do you not see three distinct words? Each one playing a different role, the first starting the sentence, the third finishing the sentence and the second bridging to two? Yet, all one in nature and purpose.
everyday tenor - I think you completely missed the point. And just because a word isn’t used till later doesn’t mean that the truth of what that one word isn’t found in scripture. The word ‘Atonement’ isn’t actually in any scripture or ever used until centuries after by Tyndale in 1530 when he created it to explain the Greek structure in the English by bringing multiple words together ‘at’ and ‘one’, to describe being brought back to God to to be ‘at one’ with him, or in harmony with him. But hey.. somehow even though its known fact that it was created by Tyndale in 1530, it’s found in Mormon scripture apparently written hundreds of years before... 🤔 hmm it’s almost as if Joseph Smith made it all up by ripping off and twisting real scripture and then backdating it.
Jesus didn't often claim equality with God the Father when He was incarnate because in condescending from being in very nature God to taking on a human nature He emptied Himself and took the form of a servant. (Phillipians 2) God is the ruler over all flesh (Jeremiah 32:27) including the incarnate Word of God, Jesus.
“There are 3 separate Gods” There are many passages in the BOM that say there is only 1 God and the the father, son and Holy Ghost are 1 God. Can you share a verse that says there are 3?
I still can't believe how much sense this version of Christianity makes. I'm so glad I didn't give up because I never thought this kind of interpretation of Christianity existed. This is brilliant guys. Just brilliant. You are extremely open minded and practical.
@angelrose The trinity they explained doesn’t come from mormon beliefs, it comes from 4th century church fathers where they officially established the doctrine of the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea. Don’t let them take credit for doctrine that has been soundly agreed upon for at least 1700 years ☺️
@@Abigail1Sam25-3 The Trinity they explained is a distorted version. The Trinity is ONE GOD, not three. Even the LDS official website says they don’t believe in the Trinity like it is traditionally taught.
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370). Polytheism
Still that is how we believe. Whether you call us polytheist or not. We worship God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. Just as Christ prayed to God when He was on the earth, so do we. Just as Christ is our advocate with the Father, all of our prayers we do in the name of Jesus Christ so that He may be our advocate. The Spirit testifies of these things, pray and you may know of the truth. Or you can keep privately interpreting the scriptures like the Bible tells you to right?
Nope. Not polytheism. Polytheism is the belief in many Gods and the WORSHIP of many Gods. That would be in line with the Greek pantheon and Hinduism. If you want the more accurate representation of what the Church believes, it would (technically) fall in line with monolatry. The definition from Dictionary.com is "the worship of only one god although other gods are recognized as existing". However, I'd like to note that it's not like we look down the line of, say, the Greek pantheon... we look at Zeus, Athena, Ares, Aphrodite, Hermes, etc. and say "I'll only worship Ares by himself. The others are there and valid, we know who they are, but we don't worship them". That's not what we believe. We don't know who the other Gods are. They are quite literally _so insignificant_ to our core mission here that we just don't talk about them. Our focus is God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost only... and that's what matters.
The same way you feel about your white skin and the horrible things Christians did to black folks all around the world and still called themselves Christians.
Thank you for posting. Mock the trinity and those who believe in it all you want but you might be surprised that both the Bible and the Book of Mormon support the concept. The trinity formula is reveled in Alma 11:44 and 3 Nephi 11:25. Mosiah 4:19 makes it clear that there is one being who is God. The Book of Mormon also says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God (2 Nephi 31:21; 3 Nephi 11:27; Mormon 7:7). Again, there is but one God (Alma 11:28,29; 33:1, 1 Nephi 13:41). Most people have no problems acknowledging the Father and Holy Ghost as God. However, when it comes to the person of Jesus it's a whole different story. In the 1830 Book of Mormon Jesus was identified as God in 1 Nephi 11:18 and 1 Nephi 11:32. Modifications were made in late editions to remove such divinity. But there are other places in the Book of Mormon that clearly identify Jesus as God (2 Nephi 1:10, 11:7, 26:12; Mosiah 3:17; Mosiah 7:27 and 15:1-5 which speak of the incarnation). In fact 3 Nephi 11:14-17 refers to Jesus as "God of Israel" and "God of the whole Earth." So at 3:00 in the video when you say it doesn't make sense to you why people believe Jesus is God I have to wonder if you have read the Book of Mormon. Part of the reason the trinity does not make sense to Mormons is that Smith decided to place Heavenly Father in a body of flesh and bones. He did this several years ago the Book of Mormon had been published. If God does have a body of flesh and bones then of course the trinity would not make sense (nor should it). But the Bible tells us that God is a spirit (as does the Book of Mormon) and that a spirit does not have flesh and bones. So God does not have a body of flesh and bones. Yes, there are human attributes given to God within Scripture but it is done as a literary device (anthropomorphism).
I baptize you in the name NOT NAMES Of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit If it is a Godhead, why would Jesus tell us to baptize in name singular, if it’s plural
Many people think that 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” Is saying that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one being but really they are just one in purpose. In 1 Corinthians 1:10, we as followers of Christ are commanded to have no divisions between each other, in essence, being “one”. Obviously we aren’t a literal “one” body, but our purpose is to be united as one, just like Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost in the Godhead.
That is a presupposition you are putting into the text. The "in purpose" clause is essentially what you are adding to the text. John 1:1 is clear the Word (Christ) is God, and 2 Corinthians 3:17 is clear the Spirit is God as well. Therefore, they are the one in essence, but separate as individuals. Also known as, the Trinity.
The sad thing about the LDS church is that Joseph Smith in his beginning of making up the story for the Mormon church is that he believed in the Trinity. An April 1830 revelation to Joseph Smith, for instance, affirms that they "are one God, infinite and eternal, without end" it was in the years of 1834 and 1835 he changed to making the Godhead 3 separate parts. This is when the god (Satan) of this World did not like JS teaching that God was Triune, he decided to teach JS that God was not so special, he did not want God to have the preeminence, what He so rightfully deserves. He has tried to take the Deity of God away but we as the True Christian know that God will have the final say, My God does not have to prove anything.
That is one thing I most definitely agree with you guys on is the God head it makes better sense to me and the other way no matter how you try to slice it no matter what kind of english or spin on it you put to make me understand it..it doesn't add up to make any sense..if Jesus and God are the same than you are basically saying god has prayed to God or another god..it makes better sense to look at them like me an my dad or you and yours you may come from him but you are in fact not him you may be like him but you are in fact not him
Trinity as defined by the Nicene Creed is a "one substance entity" (homoousia) Those bishops who voted **against** this creed were punished by the Emperor Constantine, so .....duh.. pretty much all the bishops voted "YES". Shouted Hallelujah.... Amen.... (not really) Anyway, this is rather odd considering that Christ was resurrected with a physical body of flesh and bones, but Trinitarian Christians believe that the Father is a spirit.... They are still working on that.
cdowis - Yeah... because the Father is a distinct person of the triune Godhead.. therefore we CAN say the Father *is* spirit and the Son *has* a physical resurrected body. Jesus said in John 3:23-24 “But the hour comes and now is when the worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, the for the Father seeks such to worship him. God *is* a spirit” And then in Hebrews 1:8 the Father calls the Son “God”, saying “But unto the Son, he saith (the Father) ‘thy throne O God is forever and ever’ And in Isaiah is says Isaiah 45:21-22 “..who hath told it from that time? Have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me, a just God and a Savior , there is none beside me. Look unto me and be saved, all the ends of the earth, for I am God and there is none else” Isaiah 43:10 “ye are my witnesses saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he, before me there was no God formed and neither shall there be after me, I even I and the Lord and beside me there is no savior” Isaiah 44:8 “Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God, I know not any” Finally Deuteronomy 6:4 ‘Hear O Israel, the LORD our God is one Lord’ John 1:1 ‘In the beginning was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God and the Word was God’
The confusion arises because "Christians" believe the God of the Old Testament is really Jesus Christ (which of course He is). This is something we actually share with "Christians" but they fail to see (or acknowledge ) the Father/Son relationship in either the Old or New Testaments, despite the fact that it perneates both. They claim to read, study and cherish the Bible, but then defer to 4th Century ecumenical councils to interpret it.
The thing about the early church and the councils, is that having "councils" to decide what the Christian community as a whole was going to do, what would be their belief and their practice, that a lot of people don't really get, is that this wasn't something enforced upon them by the Romans, this was something that they had already been doing amongst themselves. The first ever council, the council of Jerusalem, which took place is AD 60 is actually recorded in the Bible itself and both James and Paul are present. The debate for that one was whether or not non-Jewish converts should have to be circumcised in order to join the church. Also, there's no historical evidence that Constantine intervened or meddled in any of the councils, the first council of Nicea was called because there was a lot of heresy and confusion going on, so Constantine called the leaders of the Christian community, those who had been taught by the apostles and/or their students was basically said "Look, if I'm going to tolerate this in my empire, I need to know what it is and what it isn't so you guys need to figure your crap out."
Roochka the important thing to know is that the DOCTRINE of the Trinity was not taught amongst the earliest Christians until the last decade of the 3rd century.
Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, “Anani'as, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? [4] . . . You have not lied to men but to God.”
Whether Constantine meddled directly or not, The Trinity doctrine was voted on there by the Bishops of Rome. It was not a doctrine put forth by the Apostles.
See there's that confusion again, there was only ever 1 "Bishop of Rome" the Roman Church was not a distinct entity until much later in 1054 when the officially recognized church (which was not the same thing as the RCC that exists today) split in half into the RCC and EOC (Eastern Orthodox Church) over doctrinal, administrative, and Linguistic disagreements. Christianity wasn't even the official religion of the empire until the end of the 4th century. Also, the original 5 bishops of Rome, Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople also compiled the Bible. So, if you want to claim that the councils were all false or were this big manmade conspiracy and just an excuse for the Roman Empire to pollute the church, you shouldn't trust the Bible either.
Then that being said...that is what makes Mormonism a false religion. Anyone who denies Jesus' deity is in trouble. Jesus is God incarnate (taking on the flesh). He is 100% man as well as 100% God. There is Jesus that is not God, and Jesus that is fully God. There are TONS of scriptural evidence that backs this up in the Bible.
You should consider that the god of Mormonism can't preserve his own text (scriptures), because the mormon religion believes that have gave his word (the bible) and it was currpted. Who's to say that the mormon scriptures can't currupted. You can't say that the mormon scriptures can't be currupted, because it already has been and then it was supposedly "restored". You can use this same reasoning to jehovah witness and muslims... may the Holy Spirit open the eyes of all who read this, amen.
This is something I always think about. Can the Mormon god and Allah truly be omnipotent and to be trusted if time and time again men show up and scribble on their writings and render them corrupt to a point there needs to be a Ctrl+Alt+Del?
Mormons do not believe in the Trinity. They affirm the unity of three personages, but the unity is a relational unity in purpose and mind, not a unity of essence. The three separate beings of the Godhead are three distinct Gods.
You guys should talk about how 1Nephi 1:1-3 is a perfect example of an Egyptian Colophon and how the name Nephi is Egyptian for good or goodly or fine which means nephi used a pun in the first verse. Also the origins of other names in the Book of Mormon that used to be laughed at and now has been proven to be authentic Hebrew and Egyptian names.
@@duanefreeman3152 The Stone of Jacob appears in the Book of Genesis 28:18 as the stone used as a pillow by the Israelite patriarch Jacob at the place later called Bet-El. As Jacob had a vision in his sleep, he then consecrated the stone to God.
U guys truly should do your homework what Christians believe. you guys got it 80% but still u miss represent jesus and the holy spirits relationship with the father.
When is this video either going to have a correction or be pulled down? Kwaku, it was demonstrated both in your conversation with Dr. White and with Jeff Durbin and the subsequent follow up, that you absolutely do not understand the historic, orthodox, and Biblical truth of the Trinity. Do the right thing and correct this lie or take it down or is “lying for the Lord” still acceptable among the saints?
Exactly! This is an example of an objection against modalism, not the trinity. Strange because he mentions modalism at the beginning of the video. They must not understand it even though they think they do.
If the Mormon "god" is a functioning godhead, then who created the original god? I know that Mormons believe that their god was once like us and became perfected. So Mormons worship the god of their universe, which gets very complicated. To humanize god is to make him less than god.They are all the same species. In the Christian world, we have only one supreme being who was never a man who came to perfection. He is perfect, and always was perfect. He is the alpha and the omega, with no beginning and no end. He created everything. He is not Satan's brother. And why would anyone worship someone who is just like you? I worship the being who is above everyone and everything. THAT is who God really is - all loving almighty and all eternal.
You are over thinking this. Latter Day Saints believe that there is one almighty and all loving god who sent his son Jesus Christ to save us. There is no God who created another God and the Godhead does not mean that god isn’t almighty or all powerful. And if you’re still confused go talk to a Latter Day Saint face to face you are bound to get a better answer.
You guys decry so-called Christian "modalism" but then say you believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are 3 separate personages in the LDS faith. Aside from that being polytheistic, you have grossly mischaracterized real Christianity. Christians believe they are three separate personages AND YET simultaneously one personage. That is the mystery of the trinity to Christians (or at least Lutherans). It is thought to be a mystery beyond our human comprehension. I would compare it to quantum physics - the idea that things simultaneously exist in ALL states while being individual states as well. Big miss, guys. Big miss.
LDS believes that there are 3 persons that build up the godhead. the Father,The Son,The Holy Spirit. the Father is god,the son is god,the holy spirit is god,but in different medium as said in john 14:28
I’m slowly gathering that LDS don’t believe that Jesus is God. They believe he is a god with a little g and not coequal to The Father. Is this accurate?
3:21 not a trinitarian myself, but here we see semantic confusion. The three personages of the Nicene trinity are: God the Father, (Jehovah) God the son, (Jesus) and God the holy spirit (The holy spirit). Of course, because many don't want to use God's name Jehovah, it can be confusing to tell between God the Father and God the participated in.
As far as I know, Mormons do believe the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all divine. Despite this, they believe they are three separate beings. Beings, to get our terminology correct, meaning substance, and actually who/what they are. The Father, Son, and HS are united in this single substance. They are a single being/substance/deity, and we know this because of these Bible passages: John 1:1-14, John 10:30, Matthew 28:19, Matthew 3:16-17. Now, in these passages, some say the Son is united with the Father (John 10:30), yet the story of Jesus's baptism presents them as three separate individuals. This is the mystery of the Trinity. Jesus is united with His Father in substance, yet He is separate from His Father because they are separate individuals. And to believe that they are separate beings implies they are separate divine entities, which means they are separate deities. If they are separate deities, that means there's more than one God. And the Bible teaches there is only one God: YHWH, Jehovah, Yahweh, whatever you would like to call Him. Our God is one, and, when we say that, our human mind instantly equates that with God being one individual. This isn't necessarily the case, especially considering in Genesis 1:26 when God says, "let US make man in OUR image." In the video, brother on the left (not sure of his name) had an issue with the phrase "Jesus is God." I've already quoted Scripture, but let's quote from Christians who learned from John the Apostle, starting with Ignatius in his letter to the Ephesians: "There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." As I said earlier, Ignatius learned this from John. The Holy Spirit is truly God as well: 2 Corinthians 3:17, 1 Corinthians 3:16. If Jesus is God and if the Holy Spirit is God, then they are not separate beings from the Father. If they were, they're three separate deities/Gods. There is one God, and there's three people who are each equally and fully the same God and substance, yet they are still three separate individuals.
Except Jesus existed prior to his human form, he is the Angel of the Lord. The commander of heavens armies and He was the word and the word was with it and the word was God.
Platonic thought…. Look up Plotinus interpretation on the triune god. Looks to me like the three degrees of glory.. Except it’s not top down view commonly drawn. It’s emanations upon itself…. 🤷🏻♂️
Has Elohim got a name? Yes: Tetragrammaton; the four Hebrew consonants YHWH. This name appears in the Old Testament 6,823 times. In the KJV the translators used the name Jehovah FOUR times; with the word LORD (upper case) in the other 6,819.
Maybe if it weren’t for people like you he would actually listen to what you would have to say instead of you being cynical and spiteful towards our religion and overall disrespectful. Christ taught love before anything and if you go in with the attitude of proving someone wrong you’re going to get nowhere. I hope one day that you will be more respectful to those who have a differing opinion than you. If your God is the true God then he is evil deity who sends people who have no knowledge of his existence to eternal torment simply because they had no experience with his gospel. However I believe in a more loving God who will never let such a thing like that happen
John 1 of the Bible quite plainly says that Jesus is God. Almost verbatim. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word *was* God [...] and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us” It is really quite plain. I’m the Bible. Not an idea that came after the apostles or Jesus.
So basically you believe in 3 gods father the god Jesus the son of god who created the world and the Holy Spirit is god so you are worshipping three separate gods which paganism. Never the less wouldn’t it be easier if god the father is the one true god eliohim and that’s it . His son Jesus Christ that’s all not god and the Holy Spirit which is the comforter. We cant have three gods worshipping just 1 god end of
The Mormon Doctrine is completely contrary to the Biblical Doctrine, the Mormon doctrine is completely different than Christianity, Mormons should never call themselves Christians. The Bible has all the answers, it is obvious that you have no knowledge of the scriptures. Your religion is polytheism, you believe in many Gods, and your religion teaches that God is an exalted man and that men can also be just like God and can be exalted and become Gods, so this makes you a polytheism religion. The Bible is the Word of God, it is the authority of the Christian faith, it is not of man but of God. The Bible reveals that a triune man is created in the likeness of a triune God. Man has three elements spirit, soul, and body, but in one personality. There is a correspondence between the nature of God and the nature of man. Three in one. Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely: and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1Thess 5:23. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. Romans 10: 2-3
While I don't know if you would miss out on salvation for not believing in the Trinity, you CANNOT be saved if you deny that Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah is the one true God. If you deny this, there is no salvation for you because you reject the one true gospel.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God.” John 1:1 KJV From what I understand, the LDS church believes in the Bible. Since this verse from the Bible, how can they believe that God the Father is different from, and therefore above, God the Son. Since the Word is Jesus, and it says that the Word was both God and with God, isn’t that in support of the idea of the Trinity not a Godhead? I’m not trying to call you out or play “gotcha” or whatever, I’m simply trying to understand your religion and demystify it for myself. I am a Methodist so this is not me badmouthing Christianity. If someone could help explain this, it would be very appreciated.
Hello Jesus is the Messiah The Son of God The Son of David The Son of man The man God has chosen to be his anointed king The man God will judge the world through Jesus has a God There is no triune god in scripture Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
Orthodox Christian here, I want to set the record straight with the nicene creed. We do not believe God is “one person three purposes”, the creed does not state that. It’s 3 persons, one in essence; the essence-energy distinction is very important.
We are more than a physical body. If so where did our spirits come from. Here is a good way to explain it . I am only one and the Father of my children that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers. God is only one and the Father of our spirit that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers in heaven to..the essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. A baby can grow up and become an adult. We can grow up and become like our Heavenly Father. We all lived as a big Family befor we came to earth as just babes or spirit children of real Heavenly parents. We could see that our Heavenly parents had already been through a process. They had glorified resurrected bodies of flesh and bones. We as just babes and spirit children desired to grow up and become more like our Heavenly parents. We could see that faith while we primarily lived by sight. We could see that they had been through a lot to become all they were are .a lot of testing and experiences for the calisstecticks of growth. They are grown up and are parents..to recap. They had been through a resurrection. They had faith while we primarily lived by sight. They had been through a lot of experiences of becoming to be complete . We lived there as their children spirit children. We did not have these bodies yet .just as most children want to grow up and become more. We to desired to become more like our Heavenly parents. So our Heavenly Father created this spinning blue planet. So when we came to earth they placed a veil of forgetfulness over our minds thus giving us the opportunity to develop faith and I know of no other way. The holy ghost is a testifier of truth . I know that the great prophet Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. Sweet to know truth . Be happy and know that you are love . Thanks guys great job . When are you going to have me on your show program. You will love it .
How do all you guys not understand the trinity. The lds church understands the godhead as the way they did in the old testament and before that. Maybe study some religions that were before Christianity. They still testify of Christ, but nobody ever said he would be God. Show me that in old testament prophecies. The Trinity is one in the same sense that all people on earth are one person.
So how can they be Co equal col eternal. When you have a father and a son and they say the son is the begotten son. And begotten has a beginning. And who is Jesus's father? The Bible says that the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary. So is the Holy Ghost the father or is the Father the father of Jesus?
1:56 "Three separate beings in one" This is explicitly not what the Christian doctrine of the Trinity is. It says God is one being, not three. Also, the fullness of each person is in each other person, so not "separate" either, if we're gonna be super strict
God is only one. God is not woman nor man. God does not have children. Jesus is not God, nor the son of God. Jesus is His messenger, just like all our other prophets. In islam we use the word Allah, when we refer to God. This because the word has no plural and no gender. The concept of God is so simple and easy to understand for all human beings, but men have made that concept illogical introducing the trinity.
@kwaku, a perfect example of how the Trinity comes to play is found in the Book of Mormon, with regards to King Lamoni and his Father who is also a King but he is above Lamoni. God is just a title referred to deity. So Jesus is God not the Father, but a deity. If I have the same name as my father, that doesn't make me my father. I can even have similar physical features yet I am not and will never be my father. That is how I believe the Trinity works.
David Hurtado - Yes in his role, not in nature. Much like a Father is ‘greater’ than his Son, in that a good sin submits to his fathers authority, yet they are both equally human and have an equal nature.
This is great :D Ian is so good at explaining things and Kwaku makes you really feel what they're talking about 💚 Thanks Kwaku for what you said about about getting crud from others, man is it hard to explain that Christianity isn't owned being in a country where the Catholic Church technically shouldn't but in reality controls e v e r y t h i n g and people all around you including leaders of that church feel they have the right to basically bully you. Like all the time. And just be so unfair. Luckily it's totally true that if we have the light of Christ and let it shine people will see it and are willing to actually listen to what you have to say (or click on the link to a 3 Mormons video you send them 😏)
In Trinity - People believe that because God is so powerful and nothing is impossible so Heavenly Father is Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ is Heavenly Father and Holy Ghost, Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father that's why they have 1 God. For them this is not impossible because He is God. For me the Godhead of LDS has a lot of sense that there are separate beings namely Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost but one in purpose only to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of men. Joseph Smith is a powerful witness that God the Father is separate being from Jesus Christ. In LDS everything we do, we do it and address to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ❣️🙏 peace and love everyone 💓
Uhh no the trinity does not work like that. The Son is NOT the Father, and so on. Trinitarians believe that all three persons are 1 God, despite the Son, the Father, and the Holy Spirit not being the same person, and each person of the trinity is 100% God (not 1/3 of God.)
As a non LDS member who believes in the Trinity, anyone who wants to learn about the Trinity, PLEASE watch another video or read a book or article on it. These two are well intentioned, but the way they describe the historic doctrine of the Trinity is horribly inaccurate. I was cringing the whole way through.
Jesus Is God Scripture List • John 1:1 New King James Version (NKJV) The Eternal Word 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. • John 1:14 New King James Version (NKJV) The Word Becomes Flesh 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. • There seems to be a direct connection between the Septuagint and Jesus’ usage of ego eimi. In Isaiah 43:10 we read, “that you may know, and believe, and understand, that I am He” (personal translation). In the LXX this is rendered thus: hina gnote kai pisteusete kai sunete hoti ego eimi. In John 13:19, Jesus says to the disciples, “from now on I tell you before it comes to pass in order that when it does happen, you may believe that I am.” (personal translation). In Greek the last phrase is hina pisteusete hotan genetai hoti ego eimi. When one removes the extraneous words (such as hotan genetai which connects the last clause to the first) and compares these two passages, this is the result: Is. 43:10: hina pisteusete … hoti ego eimi, Jn. 13:19: hina pisteusete … hoti ego eimi, -Alpha and Omega Ministries • John 8:58 New King James Version (NKJV) 58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” • John 10:30 New King James Version (NKJV) 30 I and My Father are one.” • Isaiah 9:6 New King James Version (NKJV) 6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. • John 20:27-28 New King James Version (NKJV) 27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” • John 17:21 New King James Version (NKJV) 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. • Colossians 2:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV) 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead [a]bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all [b]principality and power. There Is Only One God Scripture List • Compare Isaiah 44.6, Revelation 2.8 and Revelation 1:17-18: -Isaiah 44:6 New King James Version (NKJV) There Is No Other God 6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. -Revelation 2:8 New King James Version (NKJV) The Persecuted Church 8 “And to the [a]angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: -Revelation 1:17-18 New King James Version (NKJV) 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying [a]to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of [b]Hades and of Death • 1 Corinthians 8:6 New King James Version (NKJV) 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. • Acts 20:28 New King James Version (NKJV) 28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church [a]of God which He purchased with His own blood. A Note: There are other scriptures as well that confirm Jesus as God. This is a good list, but is incomplete. However, it is more than enough to reveal the truth and make all who read it with an open mind and with honesty confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Deuteronomy 6:4 says God is one. John 3:16 says Jesus is God's son. Jesus says God is Spirit, thus Jesus is not God because Jesus is a man. The holy spirit is God, not another person. God is called many things, Father of lights, Jehovah, Jah. The spirit of God dwelled in Jesus, a mouthpiece in the most immaculate sense because his issue was not from the issue of fallen man. Jesus now is on God's right hand and has all authority in the heavens and earth until God has made his enemies Christ's footstool, once this has been done Jesus will subordinate himself to the Father so God can be all in all.
I have no issues with referring to Christ as 'God the Son', since Christ is indeed a god. We don't believe this verbage changes the fundamental doctrine of the Godhead within our faith.
God's Word is rich with the Triunity, as it mentions all 3 nature of the Triune Godhead: God the Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit throughout the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation relevant to Hebrew/Greek. Here is just ONE basic example: Deuteronomy 6:4 (English concept) "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." (on the surface this sounds like Unitarian Godhead in today's basic literal English language). In Hebrew translation: Shema prayer- Yisrael, Yehowah, Elohainoo, Yehowah aichod--"`Hear, Israel Jehovah, our God,is one Jehovah." (meaning): God God=ONE--->Triunity. God "LORD" in all caps is the tetragrammaton for YHWH (Yahweh is the Father's name) in the OT.While Elohim in Hebrew is simply his title. On this passage the Jews lay great stress and it is one of the four passages which they write on their phylacteries: On the word {elohim}, Seimeon Ben Joachi says: "Come and see the mystery of the word Elohim: that there are three degrees, and each degree is by itself alone, and yet they are all one, and joined together in one, and are not divided from each other." Evidently, Joseph Smith Junior never understood Hebrew (OT) nor Greek (NT) relative to his 1779 edition of the KJV. Which is why he violated the very fundamental tenet in Biblical Christianity--->the Trinity. The problem with Mormons is that they rely heavily on English while reading God's Word in a literal sense instead of contextually relevant to Hebrew/Greek.
For minute 6:13 Paul says Jesus is equal to the Father. Phil 2:6, “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:” . the Father is Greater (John 14:38), because Jesus was submitted to the Father and never did anything He did not see the Father doing (John 5:19).
Something interesting I discovered as I'm reading through the book of Mormon. It seems very Trinitarian. But you misrepresented the Trinitarian position. No Trinitarian who knows what they believe would call God 3 beings. The Bible is full of references to God being ONE. Mormons believe in 3 separate gods. It seems really hard to square that circle.
@@saintpaxman4403 Grace And Peace. seems to me "Trinitarian" because: *"In the mouth of TWO or THREE witnesses, let TRUTH Be Established"* Correct?: Friend(s), SURELY, you _"Believe"_ your OWN book? The one you asked me TO PRAY ABOUT, TO: "receive A BURNING IN MY BOSOM, that *it is The TRUTH!"?* Correct? Q: Can we Absolutely "trust" an angel {that told} Zeezrom, And Also these: Amulek, Alma, Abinadi, And Mosiah? Is the "testimony" of: THESE SIX "witnesses" *_"Reliable"?:_* “And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest *There Is A True And Living God?* “And Amulek said: *YEA, There Is A True And Living God!* “Now Zeezrom said: *Is there MORE THAN ONE God?* “And he answered, *NO!* “Now Zeezrom said unto him again: How knowest thou these things? “And he said: An angel hath made them known unto me.” (Alma 11 : 21-22, 26-31) { Is this a KNOWN *TRUTH!* or a "lie"? } “Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, Which IS *ONE ETERNAL God!"* (Alma 11 : 44) *TRUE!* OR "False"??? ------------------------- And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand *That God HIMSELF* Shall come down among the children of men, and Shall Redeem His people. And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son- The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son- And *THEY Are ONE God, YEA, The Very ETERNAL Father* of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to *The Spirit, or* *The Son to The Father, Being ONE God,* suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people. (Mosiah 15 : 1, 2, 5) And ONE Last Question: *The Truth Of ONE God,* or yet Another "Lie"? ----------------------------- Next? "Salvation"? by *The ONE TRUE God!?* or, will you STAY with: "Plural godS"? Saint Christopher
I am LDS but I have a Catholic education. Mormons believe in 3 Gods and 3 persons. They are one in purpose. One team, and one Godhead but they are three. Catholics and other Trinitarians believe in one God and three persons. They believe that because monotheism is important to them. But the Old Testament and New Testament and the Apostolic Fathers are not completely clear on this.
Joseph Smith talks about one God infinite and eternal in D&C Section 20 verse 12,17,19 & 28 How do we understand today as Three Seperate Gods? *Asking this question with love and curiosity*
Should a guy that hasn't even seen Star Trek be talking about the church? I'm just sayin'. #deepspaceninerules. He doesn't even know what the Rules of Acquisition are. Jeeez.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Jesus prayed to God, his father to show us to pray
And because he is fully human, and fully divine, he had a very human moment, where he prayed to the Father for strength
With respect, saying that you 'don't have to play by those rules' when questioned about polytheism (which by the way you are, if you maintain that Jesus is *a* god, you are merely avoiding answering.
you forgot to close your parenthesis...
I'm sorry, but you guys absolutely butcher what Christians teach about the Trinity. Read St. Thomas Aquinas for a robust account of the doctrine, and then re-make this video. You do not understand the early church, because understanding the early church would make you realize that the apostasy put forth by restorationist groups to account for their radical divergence from historical Christian doctrine never occurred. I would urge you to read documents like the Didache (80 AD) and other extra-biblical documents written around the death of St. John, the last Apostle. For you to use Origen in defending your position is laughable, as Origen, a Father of the Church, is Catholic to the core.
I think you must also recognize that the Mormon doctrine of God is not as clean as the modern LDS establishment would make it out to be--the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham offer radically different depictions of God, complicated by the visions of Joseph Smith and conflicting statements by authorities in your church; you also teach that God was a man. I enjoy your videos, but this is incompetent.
Matthew Igoe What part of our explanation about the concept of the trinity was inaccurate?
While your clarification that the Trinity is not Modalism at the beginning is valuable, and your initial definition is mostly correct, your perspective is deficient throughout the video. When you offer a counterpoint at 2:55 to Ian's explanation of Mormon doctrine by saying that it is identical with Trinitarian doctrine, you imply that the Trinitarian Godhead is composed of three beings--in God, being is identical with essence, as Being is God's very nature (Exodus 3:14), thus making God one Being who happens to subsist in three persons. At 3:02, you state that if Jesus is God, He must "encompass" the other Persons of the Godhead--each person of the Trinity is God given the divine essence that is their unity. God is also simple, and has no "parts" as you imply. I will not address Ian's flippant treatment of the councils of the Church, but he makes the most egregious errors. God is not a "unit," because God is not a thing in space and time, and Ian basically describes the Trinity in the modalist terms you rejected earlier in the video by saying that God is one person who functions in three purposes (modes). The Godhead cannot "separate" and the Father cannot be the Son, and neither can be the Holy Ghost, as each is a distinct person that shares a divine essence and is eternally united in the Godhead.
Kwaku, there were "apostles"--they're called bishops, and the Catholic and Orthodox churches have an unbroken line of succession stretching from the Apostles who laid their hands on successors, on and on until the present day, which makes sense if you wish to avoid calling Jesus a liar (Matthew 16:18). Origen is Trinitarian, and has a systematic approach in addressing the subject.
When Christ is on the Cross, he is not crying out to "himself," but to the Father, the one by whom he is eternally begotten. Also, in your treatment of Christology, you fail to realize that in the traditional Christian perspective, Christ is God AND Man, and that it is fitting for man to pray.
A thorough treatment from St. Thomas: www.newadvent.org/summa/4021.htm
There is no way you are getting three separate gods from the material of the New Testament without the teachings of Joseph Smith.
This is a good treatment of the subject of the Trinity as a whole: www.aquinasblog.com/16-trinity.html
1. My counterpoint to Ian was of rhetorical nature, I asked him a question so we could explain things more. I clearly don't think the Trinity and the Godhead are the same. This is just a technique talkshows do, and we do it on the show all the time.
2. If The Father, Son and the Spirit make up God, then they have parts. That's just how counting works.
3. You're mixing the conversation about the Trinity and Apostolic authority into one, which is an impossible conversation to have. We really just have to deal with the one.
3. Well if Jesus isn't simply a part of God (he is God) and the Father isn't simply a part of God (he is God) then by all manner of logic, Jesus is crying out to himself.
4. I understand it's a mystery, but one can't honestly claim that we have butchered the understanding of something, while holding that understanding it is impossible. That is fallacious.
5. Your claim that you cannot get separate Gods from the material of the New Testament, without Joseph Smith is historically dishonest. If that was true, there would be ZERO record of multiple Gods in christian theological history before Joseph's ministry, and we show in this video that what you've stated isn't true.
6. Joseph Smith was right, because God the Father and Jesus Christ told him :)
Let me reply to each point:
1) I understand that you do not believe the Mormon doctrine of the Godhead is identical with the orthodox understanding of the Trinity. I was arguing that in your rhetorical rebuttal intended to clarify the LDS position in contrast with the orthodox one, you mischaracterize traditional Trinitarian theology, so the distinction you attempt to make is all but meaningless.
2) Nothing in my first response would suggest that the orthodox position holds that the Three Persons of the Trinity "make up" God. Such a notion is much closer to the LDS position. A Person is not a part. The One God subsists in Three Persons who share one divine essence. Just as you are one being, though you possess a self, self-knowledge, and self love that proceeds from this awareness of yourself, so God is one being who subsists in (1) the Father, the foundation of the Godhead, (2) the Son, the Father's cognition of Himself, the Word, who eternally is begotten as a Divine Person, and (3) the Holy Spirit, the Personal Love that is shared between the Father and the Son. A Person is a relation, not some kind of cog in a divine machine.
3a) The reason I bring up Apostolic authority is because you bring it up in the video to discredit the Council of Nicaea by erroneously claiming that there was no God-given authority on the earth at the time of its convening.
3b) As was established by my response to your second point, the Father is not the Son. See the First Chapter of John in any standard Protestant or Catholic Bible to clarify this point. I don't think you're getting what we mean by person and substance and the implications this has for our understanding of the One God in Three Persons.
4) God is beyond our intellects. He is transcendent, utterly majestic, infinite, and holy. What we can say of God we can say with certainty because of revelation, but we cannot say that our minds can sum up entirely the inner life of the Most High. We can discuss the Trinity, and come to a clear picture of it, as I have shown by my rigorous treatment of the subject.
5) To compare the polytheism of Smith with the theology of Arius is wrong. Arius taught of the Father and a created Son. Joseph Smith taught an infinite regression of gods spanning universes, councils of gods, and the copulation of gods to produce spirit children. To think Arius would countenance any positions similar to these is impossible.
6) Which first vision? There are several conflicting accounts of the First Vision. Any Google search will verify this, as it is well documented by LDS and non-LDS scholars.
For sake of not getting lost in the comments, I'll just respond to the big questions!
1. If the trinity is not possible to understand, than I can't be wrong for misrepresenting what no person can understand, because one cannot misrepresent or accurately represent what humans cannot understand.
2. The council of Nicaea was not literally organized by Jesus Christ or any of his Angels, just by men. I'm willing to accept the argument that the Bishops were the Apostles, but I do not see this argument as historically valid.
3. Your comment said "There is no way you are getting three separate gods from the material of the New Testament without the teachings of Joseph Smith." You did not say anything about The New Testament espousing Esoteric LDS doctrine regarding godhood. You're original comment is inaccurate, to say there is no idea of polytheism/monolatry in all of Christendom (before Joseph Smith) is false. We also never mentioned Arius as the sole idea of multiple Gods, so I'm not sure where you're getting our claims about him. You may want to watch our episode with Stephen Smoot, you may want to figure out what we're saying.
4. All of the First Vision accounts harmonize together, God and Christ are separate people, separate personages, separate beings.
I’m sorry guys but saying “ we don’t have play by the rules” is an incorrect thing to say especially if you’re claiming to be Christian . Trinity is one of the central aspect of Christianity . Trinity was taught way before 325 . Not believing in the correct biblical God is kind of problem for the religion .
What hurts Mormonism so much is that everyone can be Gods , and that means every God is created , even the son (Jesus) and the “orthodox “ belief in Christianity is that the son has always been .
We were all intelligence's before this mortal world.
We will never not worship one God. God the Father will always be our God. He has glorified Jesus Christ through him finishing His atoning sacrifice. And Jesus Christ glorified the Father in saving us all from mortal death. He is our mediator with the Father. Many other Christians actually believe this too they just don't talk about it at church because they know how the people paying the preachers feel about it. But the scriptures are very clear. Very clear that we are the offspring of God, we are God's or better yet eons away we can be God's. I truly think the word God has been defined separately from what it originally meant. I think the word God in God's definition means eternal glorified being. But we will always love and worship our Father. And now Jesus and God will reign together forever and we will always turn to them and worship them because they have given us the chance at glorified physical bodies.
I think the Ancient Aliens people gave us the best evidence of all time. Because God has a physical body it is just a glorified and eternal body. So of course people who don't understand who God a d Christ actually are, would perceive the stories, petroglyphs, and legends on the white God through out the world, as Alien's. If the standard Christian teaches you a lesser history on what God is, When you consider the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints stand people go oh wow so they're really are aliens! And yes I think we could perceived them as extra terrestrial. Glorified physical beings of eternal existence.
Stop listening to your paid pastors who are trying to brainwash you into believing one way that they have governed as being the only way of thinking. Dive into your Bible and read and pray that God will enlighten your mind, and if you truly want to do His will, he will guide you to the truths.
The trinity was taught before 325 AD. You are missing the point. A lot of different Christologies were taught. There were many opinions. Arianism, Nestorianism, and Justin Martyr taught that there were two Gods Jesus being the lesser God. Some also taught that the Holy Ghost was a force and not a person ect.
Got a mouthful here. One thing I love about the Godhead is that it's actually mentioned several times at least in the new testament. The trinity belief that many people depend on so much, judge people with, is not mentioned in the bible whatsoever. Not at all because it came freaking over 300 years after Christ was born.. A term not like bible that just means library, but one that apparently dictates whether any is Christian at all... If you can't even show me one time in the bible that says trinity, at least show me where it says God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one and the same God. Or, show me where in the bible it says I aint Christian for not believing the Godhead is all one God. I bet you that's also unbiblical as well. I only worship one God the Father in Jesus Christ's name and believe the Holy Ghost helps reveal truth. That's not any different than someone who believes in the trinity praying the same way. I won't flip out if someone believes anyone of the Godhead is God too. But they likewise should be giving me the same respect if I believe Jesus Christ is a God in his own right but not as great obviously than God the Father. I believe the Holy Ghost is very Godlike for sure. I'm aware the bible says things like there is no other God besides me, no other God before me, or after me being formed. No savior but I. Any God besides me? No God. I know not any. Hence, I ask as well, who is talking? Because If Heavenly Father is talking, or Jesus Christ, are they lying because they are the same God?? Or is one lying because one of them is a God?? I know this was Jehovah, AKA Jesus Christ talking and no he was not lying. No question about it. Trinitarian believers would argue, the trinity has to work in this case because all three of the Godhead are all God. However, sorry but bible still says Godhead. Not the trinity which also claims the Holy Ghost is God too. But this was not the Holy Ghost speaking in these passages which people love to try to use against lds or non trinitarian belief. I can understand why and where any disagreements over who is God and whether there is more than one God happens. It still however doesn't change other things God the Son, Jesus Christ, also said. Responding to Jews wanting to stone Him for saying He and the Father are one, Jesus said is it not written, I said, ye are Gods? Referring obviously to when Jehovah, (Jesus) said ye are Gods and children of the most high. This is the same God the Son who also said no other God he knows of before or after but Him right? Right! I agree. Just as I agree with Him when He said ye are Gods and children of the most high. It is further taught in the new testament that the spirit, no doubt the Godly Holy Ghost, beareth witness with our own spirit that we are God's children. And if His children, then heirs, and joint-heirs with Christ. Christ is most definitely God the Father's ultimate child. The chosen one given godly power even before being born then becoming more, totally like God when He was resurrected. This all simply gives me hope that quite evidently like God the Father did with Jesus Christ, we all can be resurrected, glorified, and ultimately exalted or become godlike, or gods in our own right. We are all God's kids and heirs like Jesus if we so choose. I know we are already like God having spirits, bodies, and an imagination we can create absolutely anything with in our mind. Just as God can with the universe creating whatever he wants. No matter what you believe, you don't anger me for believing so different and Jesus Christ still taught to love one another. To love your enemy, love your neigbor, do good to those that do you wrong. No one here is my enemy. Trinitarian or not. No matter who you are from whatever Christ believing faith, if you can't follow at least what Jesus taught of loving one another then you're wrong. Because of Christ too, my strong faith does not dictate at all who my friends or family are. I suggest we all do the same to really show what wonders Christianity, what teamwork in general can do.
💛✊🏿💛✊🏾💛✊🏽💛✊🏻💛✊💛
This is a big reason why Latter Day Saints are not Christian or disciples of Jesus in any traditional or biblical way. The triune Godhead concept - 1 God in 3 Persons - is a central doctrine in biblical Christianity and predates the Council of Nicaea. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are co-equal and co-eternal Persons. LDS beliefs about God are, by definition, most certainly polytheistic/monolatristic. To deny this is simply disingenuous and false. Whether someone reveres or worships one god or not, the belief in the existence of more than one god, is by definition polytheism. "Mormons" believe in more than one God. Christians do not. Christianity and "Mormonism" cannot be reconciled.
Subordinationism or ontological subordination was a belief, albeit a heretical one, held by some early Christians. This only proves that is was a belief along with many other heretical beliefs. Relational subordination is biblical, but it still is not in line with LDS doctrine. In LDS teaching, the Son is also ontologically subordinate to the Father. In Christianity, the Godhead (theion) and "trinity" are two words representing the same concept. The terms are distinct in "Mormonism" because "Mormons" hold a distinct view of God from biblical Christianity, among other things.
THE LDS WEBSITE TEACHES THE TRINITY AS DOCTRINE!
www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/morm/7.5-7?lang=eng
Book of Mormon, Mormon 7:7 "And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end."
This UNambiguously states that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are ONE GOD, i.e. the Trinity. This agrees with the original 1830 Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi, at the end of Chapter 13, on page 120, where it is stated:
"And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." (2 Nephi 31:21)
FURTHER..................
In Mormon material, the Trinity is very clearly taught & emphasised as ONE GOD. For example: In the original 1830 printing of the Book of Mormon (I own a copy), in 2 Nephi, at the end of Chapter 13, on page 120, it is stated: "And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." (2 Nephi 31:21)
The doctrine of the Trinity is on the Mormon website:
" And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen."
The Trinity is taught AS ONE GOD in Mormon 7:7:
" unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end."
Further, the Trinity is also taught in Doctrine and Covenants 20:28 "Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God , infinite and eternal, without end. Amen."
FOUR instances, taken from Mormon writings, stating that the three parts of the Trinity are ONE GOD. Therefore, I do not understand how a Mormon can deny the Trinity. If they do not believe in the Trinity, then WHY is it given as doctrine in these four locations ~ including their website?
#
Shaun Anderson, come on, why would God create a state of confusion? The bible is incomplete, and many changes added in, due to the influence of the Roman Empire! The doctrine of the trinity is easily debunked, if you study the whole bible, and not just quote things out of it. You need to get your house in order please, before throwing unintelligent arguments and accusation's, that's going to have no legs to stand on, in this day and age!
The Trinity has been clearly disclosed by Jesus and is true, but the Trinity Doctrine - made in Nicea BY MEN ! - is false, against logic, those people simply didn't correctly understand the gospels. It is simply absurd maintaining that the Son of God existed before his generation!!! Sorry, what was then the purpose of it? This was stated by those people, not by Jesus : He said "before Abraham was I am" and this does NOT imply He always existed. In that theory the role of the Holy Spirit is simply TRAGIC : as God He should possess a mind and points of view, but neither the Father nor the Son EVER converse with Him: absolutely ignored; as GOD He is further BLASPHEMOUSLY represented (by a bird), as God's "Helper", He is not in a sufficient prominent position to have at least a Chair in heaven (only two of them !!)...a mistreated God. Absurd. Why do we go further defending an untenable doctrine ?
Shaun Anderson so you really believe Jesus prayed to himself.....and at his baptism he did ventriloquist and said he was proud of himself.....it’s in the Bible very clearly separates them..
@@daleroyster2144 Let's now focus just on the DIFFERENCES between the almighty God and God the Son (Jesus): the almighty God is the almighty God, whilst the Son IS A NORMAL MAN EXACTLY AS WE ARE, all different from God. Thus, we are in the SAME CONDITIONS as the Son : as we can talk to God, He can also talk to God exactly in the SAME WAY, thus, no ventriloquism !
It should be noted that God OPERATES in OUR dimension, but HIS PERSON LIES in a DIFFERENT DIMENSION, this is why Jesus said "no one has ever seen God".
And now let's focus on the points IN COMMON between the almighty God and the Son, there's only ONE point in common: THE IDENTITY. Once I was a three years old kid. Now, my body has RADICALLY CHANGED and my mind has changed even more. Though, I still AM that three years old kid, my NAME and my IDENTITY DIDN'T CHANGE. Something similar happened to God: He got rid of THE EXCEEDING PART which distinguished Him from human beings to BECOME A NORMAL MAN. A quite dramatic evolution, but GOD'S IDENTITY DIDN'T CHANGE ! The Son thus "talks to Himself" but why should it be that weird ? For example you could read some instructions you wrote some years before to recall the steps needed in disassembling a determined car engine: in this example YOU GIVE SOME INFORMATION TO YOURSELF by means of a piece of paper. The Son thus talks to the Father to get information to always do correct things, He asks for miracles (the Father could even refuse to make them if harmful), the Son is guided by the almighty God when necessary...Jesus however CANNOT WORSHIP GOD because He IS that God, worshipping Himself would be a nonsense.
ua-cam.com/video/8aQsGnoP80g/v-deo.html
Trinity = 3 persons, 1 God in substance or essence
Godhead = 3 persons, 1 God in unity or purpose
Mormons worship 1 God in unity, not 1 God in substance.
Trinity- 1 God in 3 person
The Mormon Godhead is 3 beings. Making it 3 gods. Polytheism. Bible teaches ONE God.
Mike James both of them prove polytheism to me. At least Mormon Godhead makes a bit more sense
Black Dahlia
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD:”
Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV
Where does the Bible teach polytheism? There is ONE God my friend.
Black Dahlia
You shouldn’t be able to fully comprehend God. A God you can fully comprehend is not a God worth worshiping.
3:53 false, the Nicene Creed states there are three persons of one substance
I was just thinking the same!
There is nothing false about this. They explained the Trinity belief in the first few minutes perfectly.
@@matthewkramer9975 And then failed to understand it for the rest of the video "WHy DoEs JEsUs NoT PrAY tO hImSeLF iN tHe GArdEn??"
Vinsanity997 I am not advocating the Trinity at all. I am saying that they explained it well from a Trinitarian point of view to their opponents.
I am a Latter Day Saint myself, and in no shape or form hold to the doctrine of the Trinity.
My apologies for not clarifying what I meant. Have a good rest of your day bro.
@@matthewkramer9975 You as well, I pray that God will reveal himself to you soon
As I understand the Trinity, it is defined this way by traditional/creedal Christians:
- 3 persons, not separate beings
- as Leo says below, according to creedal Christians the Trinity members are united in substance; not separate beings
Christians understand the term "person" -- in relation to the members of the Trinity -- differently than in other contexts. These 3 Trinity members are referred to by Christians as 3 separate persons, but not separate in terms of substance. Not separate beings or individuals.
The LDS Godhead is not based in creeds, but in revelation. The LDS Godhood is composed of 3 completely separate beings, personages, beings. No special definitions.
Just curious as to how the Holy Spirit is a separate being? Trying to learn the concept after reading Daniel 7 recently.
@@jjfresh343 The Holy Spirit is separate in the same way -- according to our LDS faith -- the Father and Son are separate. They're completely separate individuals, beings.
The Trinity is based on Greek philosophy. It's a philosophical explanation to solve a problem that existed in the Church at the time: they didn't want to be labeled as polytheists (believing in 2 Gods: God the Father and God the Son).
Nothing known in the universe is composed on 3 persons but 1 being. It's a metaphysical description of an idea. An idea that is contradictory.
This is polytheistic, there are 3 gods being worshipped and there are other gods in existence equal to the father because the father is only one god among many that became god, this is somewhat hypocritical.
Thank you, this is far better than the explanation in the video
As a Protestant/Creedal Christian, I agree with the definitions you posted
I can help you understand the Triune God (Trinity) using a ONE word answer.
Ready?
Trinity, Trinity, Trinity.
How many words did I use?
One, and yet Three. One word and yet three distinct, but no different. Totally equal in nature and each one a complete representation of the others and the three as a whole, that there are three, (a Trinity). One in nature, three distinct, co-equal and one in purpose also.
God bless.
Galatians 3:29 bob - Thanks
Galatians 3:29 bob - Go for it! Anything to further the truth of God’s word 👍🏻
But your analogy doesn't allow for distinction within the Godhead
Practical Faith - Do you not see three distinct words?
Each one playing a different role, the first starting the sentence, the third finishing the sentence and the second bridging to two? Yet, all one in nature and purpose.
everyday tenor - I think you completely missed the point.
And just because a word isn’t used till later doesn’t mean that the truth of what that one word isn’t found in scripture.
The word ‘Atonement’ isn’t actually in any scripture or ever used until centuries after by Tyndale in 1530 when he created it to explain the Greek structure in the English by bringing multiple words together ‘at’ and ‘one’, to describe being brought back to God to to be ‘at one’ with him, or in harmony with him. But hey.. somehow even though its known fact that it was created by Tyndale in 1530, it’s found in Mormon scripture apparently written hundreds of years before...
🤔 hmm it’s almost as if Joseph Smith made it all up by ripping off and twisting real scripture and then backdating it.
Jesus didn't often claim equality with God the Father when He was incarnate because in condescending from being in very nature God to taking on a human nature He emptied Himself and took the form of a servant. (Phillipians 2) God is the ruler over all flesh (Jeremiah 32:27) including the incarnate Word of God, Jesus.
“There are 3 separate Gods”
There are many passages in the BOM that say there is only 1 God and the the father, son and Holy Ghost are 1 God. Can you share a verse that says there are 3?
I still can't believe how much sense this version of Christianity makes. I'm so glad I didn't give up because I never thought this kind of interpretation of Christianity existed. This is brilliant guys. Just brilliant. You are extremely open minded and practical.
☺
The Trinity is one being, three persons. What mormons believe is 3 beings (3 gods), not biblical.
@angelrose The trinity they explained doesn’t come from mormon beliefs, it comes from 4th century church fathers where they officially established the doctrine of the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea. Don’t let them take credit for doctrine that has been soundly agreed upon for at least 1700 years ☺️
@@Abigail1Sam25-3 The Trinity they explained is a distorted version. The Trinity is ONE GOD, not three. Even the LDS official website says they don’t believe in the Trinity like it is traditionally taught.
@@marvinmendezfityou’re right, after rewatching I understand how they added tritheism into the equation, thank you for clarifying
I have never had a sensible answer to how Stephen saw Christ next to God before he was stoned. If God is a Trinity how is that possible?
Trinity One God in three distinct persons a false doctrine
Because the Father (who is being referred to simply as 'God') is a separate person from Christ, yet they are one in essence.
You guys obviously did not do your homework
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370).
Polytheism
Still that is how we believe. Whether you call us polytheist or not. We worship God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. Just as Christ prayed to God when He was on the earth, so do we. Just as Christ is our advocate with the Father, all of our prayers we do in the name of Jesus Christ so that He may be our advocate. The Spirit testifies of these things, pray and you may know of the truth.
Or you can keep privately interpreting the scriptures like the Bible tells you to right?
Literally, American Islam with a dash of polytheism
Nope. Not polytheism. Polytheism is the belief in many Gods and the WORSHIP of many Gods. That would be in line with the Greek pantheon and Hinduism. If you want the more accurate representation of what the Church believes, it would (technically) fall in line with monolatry. The definition from Dictionary.com is "the worship of only one god although other gods are recognized as existing". However, I'd like to note that it's not like we look down the line of, say, the Greek pantheon... we look at Zeus, Athena, Ares, Aphrodite, Hermes, etc. and say "I'll only worship Ares by himself. The others are there and valid, we know who they are, but we don't worship them". That's not what we believe. We don't know who the other Gods are. They are quite literally _so insignificant_ to our core mission here that we just don't talk about them. Our focus is God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost only... and that's what matters.
@@sarahturner4148 One God among many Gods
How does the black elder feel about his skin color being the curse of Cain that keep his people out of LDS full membership ?
The same way you feel about your white skin and the horrible things Christians did to black folks all around the world and still called themselves Christians.
Thank you for posting.
Mock the trinity and those who believe in it all you want but you might be surprised that both the Bible and the Book of Mormon support the concept. The trinity formula is reveled in Alma 11:44 and 3 Nephi 11:25. Mosiah 4:19 makes it clear that there is one being who is God. The Book of Mormon also says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God (2 Nephi 31:21; 3 Nephi 11:27; Mormon 7:7). Again, there is but one God (Alma 11:28,29; 33:1, 1 Nephi 13:41). Most people have no problems acknowledging the Father and Holy Ghost as God. However, when it comes to the person of Jesus it's a whole different story. In the 1830 Book of Mormon Jesus was identified as God in 1 Nephi 11:18 and 1 Nephi 11:32. Modifications were made in late editions to remove such divinity. But there are other places in the Book of Mormon that clearly identify Jesus as God (2 Nephi 1:10, 11:7, 26:12; Mosiah 3:17; Mosiah 7:27 and 15:1-5 which speak of the incarnation). In fact 3 Nephi 11:14-17 refers to Jesus as "God of Israel" and "God of the whole Earth." So at 3:00 in the video when you say it doesn't make sense to you why people believe Jesus is God I have to wonder if you have read the Book of Mormon.
Part of the reason the trinity does not make sense to Mormons is that Smith decided to place Heavenly Father in a body of flesh and bones. He did this several years ago the Book of Mormon had been published. If God does have a body of flesh and bones then of course the trinity would not make sense (nor should it). But the Bible tells us that God is a spirit (as does the Book of Mormon) and that a spirit does not have flesh and bones. So God does not have a body of flesh and bones. Yes, there are human attributes given to God within Scripture but it is done as a literary device (anthropomorphism).
I wish they would listen to you and know the true God, Father, Son and Spirit. One God with one essence in three persons
Sorry but the trinity and your interpretation are wrong. The trinity is a false teaching brought by man in the 3rd and 4th century.
@@Vinsanity997 God has a God Hebrews 1:9 KJV
Great explanation
I baptize you in the name
NOT NAMES
Of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
If it is a Godhead, why would Jesus tell us to baptize in name singular, if it’s plural
Many people think that 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” Is saying that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one being but really they are just one in purpose. In 1 Corinthians 1:10, we as followers of Christ are commanded to have no divisions between each other, in essence, being “one”. Obviously we aren’t a literal “one” body, but our purpose is to be united as one, just like Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost in the Godhead.
That is a really good way to say that not one in body one in purpose.
That is a presupposition you are putting into the text. The "in purpose" clause is essentially what you are adding to the text. John 1:1 is clear the Word (Christ) is God, and 2 Corinthians 3:17 is clear the Spirit is God as well. Therefore, they are the one in essence, but separate as individuals. Also known as, the Trinity.
The sad thing about the LDS church is that Joseph Smith in his beginning of making up the story for the Mormon church is that he believed in the Trinity. An April 1830 revelation to Joseph Smith, for instance, affirms that they "are one God, infinite and eternal, without end" it was in the years of 1834 and 1835 he changed to making the Godhead 3 separate parts. This is when the god (Satan) of this World did not like JS teaching that God was Triune, he decided to teach JS that God was not so special, he did not want God to have the preeminence, what He so rightfully deserves. He has tried to take the Deity of God away but we as the True Christian know that God will have the final say, My God does not have to prove anything.
That is one thing I most definitely agree with you guys on is the God head it makes better sense to me and the other way no matter how you try to slice it no matter what kind of english or spin on it you put to make me understand it..it doesn't add up to make any sense..if Jesus and God are the same than you are basically saying god has prayed to God or another god..it makes better sense to look at them like me an my dad or you and yours you may come from him but you are in fact not him you may be like him but you are in fact not him
The thing is God doesn’t make sense and doesn’t have to make sense for the trinity to be true. God is complex
if you "don't play by the rules", you can't claim to be christian....the trinity is one of the core beliefs in many Christian denominations.
Trinitarians don’t believe it’s three Seperate beings. Just three seperates Persons. They share one essence making them one God
They lost all credibility the second they start talking about best trilogies and didn’t even mention Lord of the Rings
Oh, that is a fantastic trilogy! Are you excited or dreading the fact that a new version of that series is currently in production?
Trinity as defined by the Nicene Creed is a "one substance entity" (homoousia)
Those bishops who voted **against** this creed were punished by the Emperor Constantine, so .....duh.. pretty much all the bishops voted "YES".
Shouted Hallelujah.... Amen.... (not really)
Anyway, this is rather odd considering that Christ was resurrected with a physical body of flesh and bones, but Trinitarian Christians believe that the Father is a spirit.... They are still working on that.
cdowis - Yeah... because the Father is a distinct person of the triune Godhead.. therefore we CAN say the Father *is* spirit and the Son *has* a physical resurrected body.
Jesus said in John 3:23-24 “But the hour comes and now is when the worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, the for the Father seeks such to worship him. God *is* a spirit”
And then in Hebrews 1:8 the Father calls the Son “God”, saying “But unto the Son, he saith (the Father) ‘thy throne O God is forever and ever’
And in Isaiah is says
Isaiah 45:21-22 “..who hath told it from that time? Have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me, a just God and a Savior , there is none beside me. Look unto me and be saved, all the ends of the earth, for I am God and there is none else”
Isaiah 43:10 “ye are my witnesses saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he, before me there was no God formed and neither shall there be after me, I even I and the Lord and beside me there is no savior”
Isaiah 44:8 “Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God, I know not any”
Finally
Deuteronomy 6:4 ‘Hear O Israel, the LORD our God is one Lord’
John 1:1 ‘In the beginning was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God and the Word was God’
The confusion arises because "Christians" believe the God of the Old Testament is really Jesus Christ (which of course He is).
This is something we actually share with "Christians" but they fail to see (or acknowledge ) the Father/Son relationship in either the Old or New Testaments, despite the fact that it perneates both.
They claim to read, study and cherish the Bible, but then defer to 4th Century ecumenical councils to interpret it.
The thing about the early church and the councils, is that having "councils" to decide what the Christian community as a whole was going to do, what would be their belief and their practice, that a lot of people don't really get, is that this wasn't something enforced upon them by the Romans, this was something that they had already been doing amongst themselves. The first ever council, the council of Jerusalem, which took place is AD 60 is actually recorded in the Bible itself and both James and Paul are present. The debate for that one was whether or not non-Jewish converts should have to be circumcised in order to join the church.
Also, there's no historical evidence that Constantine intervened or meddled in any of the councils, the first council of Nicea was called because there was a lot of heresy and confusion going on, so Constantine called the leaders of the Christian community, those who had been taught by the apostles and/or their students was basically said "Look, if I'm going to tolerate this in my empire, I need to know what it is and what it isn't so you guys need to figure your crap out."
Roochka the important thing to know is that the DOCTRINE of the Trinity was not taught amongst the earliest Christians until the last decade of the 3rd century.
Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, “Anani'as, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? [4] . . . You have not lied to men but to God.”
John 10:30: "I and the Father are One"
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Whether Constantine meddled directly or not, The Trinity doctrine was voted on there by the Bishops of Rome. It was not a doctrine put forth by the Apostles.
See there's that confusion again, there was only ever 1 "Bishop of Rome" the Roman Church was not a distinct entity until much later in 1054 when the officially recognized church (which was not the same thing as the RCC that exists today) split in half into the RCC and EOC (Eastern Orthodox Church) over doctrinal, administrative, and Linguistic disagreements. Christianity wasn't even the official religion of the empire until the end of the 4th century.
Also, the original 5 bishops of Rome, Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople also compiled the Bible. So, if you want to claim that the councils were all false or were this big manmade conspiracy and just an excuse for the Roman Empire to pollute the church, you shouldn't trust the Bible either.
Then that being said...that is what makes Mormonism a false religion. Anyone who denies Jesus' deity is in trouble. Jesus is God incarnate (taking on the flesh). He is 100% man as well as 100% God. There is Jesus that is not God, and Jesus that is fully God. There are TONS of scriptural evidence that backs this up in the Bible.
We don't deny Jesus' deity though? I'm confused.
You should consider that the god of Mormonism can't preserve his own text (scriptures), because the mormon religion believes that have gave his word (the bible) and it was currpted. Who's to say that the mormon scriptures can't currupted. You can't say that the mormon scriptures can't be currupted, because it already has been and then it was supposedly "restored". You can use this same reasoning to jehovah witness and muslims... may the Holy Spirit open the eyes of all who read this, amen.
This is something I always think about. Can the Mormon god and Allah truly be omnipotent and to be trusted if time and time again men show up and scribble on their writings and render them corrupt to a point there needs to be a Ctrl+Alt+Del?
Mormons do not believe in the Trinity. They affirm the unity of three personages, but the unity is a relational unity in purpose and mind, not a unity of essence. The three separate beings of the Godhead are three distinct Gods.
That is a great exlanation of the Godhead. I agree,
You guys should talk about how 1Nephi 1:1-3 is a perfect example of an Egyptian Colophon and how the name Nephi is Egyptian for good or goodly or fine which means nephi used a pun in the first verse. Also the origins of other names in the Book of Mormon that used to be laughed at and now has been proven to be authentic Hebrew and Egyptian names.
BS....go look at a rock in a hat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's actually really freaking funny. Thank you for pointing that out!
@@duanefreeman3152 why does it matter to you? And why do you care? He did it by the power of the Holy Spirit.
@@duanefreeman3152 The Stone of Jacob appears in the Book of Genesis 28:18 as the stone used as a pillow by the Israelite patriarch Jacob at the place later called Bet-El. As Jacob had a vision in his sleep, he then consecrated the stone to God.
One sign of demonic possession is the use of unknown or ancient languages
U guys truly should do your homework what Christians believe. you guys got it 80% but still u miss represent jesus and the holy spirits relationship with the father.
When is this video either going to have a correction or be pulled down? Kwaku, it was demonstrated both in your conversation with Dr. White and with Jeff Durbin and the subsequent follow up, that you absolutely do not understand the historic, orthodox, and Biblical truth of the Trinity. Do the right thing and correct this lie or take it down or is “lying for the Lord” still acceptable among the saints?
To be honest, I dont think both of them depicted Trinity in a correct manner. For instance, at ard 6:32 - 6:35 JESUS wasnt talking to Himself.
Exactly! This is an example of an objection against modalism, not the trinity. Strange because he mentions modalism at the beginning of the video. They must not understand it even though they think they do.
If the Mormon "god" is a functioning godhead, then who created the original god? I know that Mormons believe that their god was once like us and became perfected. So Mormons worship the god of their universe, which gets very complicated. To humanize god is to make him less than god.They are all the same species.
In the Christian world, we have only one supreme being who was never a man who came to perfection. He is perfect, and always was perfect. He is the alpha and the omega, with no beginning and no end. He created everything. He is not Satan's brother. And why would anyone worship someone who is just like you? I worship the being who is above everyone and everything. THAT is who God really is - all loving almighty and all eternal.
You are over thinking this. Latter Day Saints believe that there is one almighty and all loving god who sent his son Jesus Christ to save us. There is no God who created another God and the Godhead does not mean that god isn’t almighty or all powerful. And if you’re still confused go talk to a Latter Day Saint face to face you are bound to get a better answer.
John 5:37 Jesus said no one's seen the father's form the Trinity is false Doctrine
Can you please get your fish a bigger bowl and some plants and structure plz.
Erin Palutsis he has his own large tank,,,,,they take him out for the show......
You guys decry so-called Christian "modalism" but then say you believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are 3 separate personages in the LDS faith. Aside from that being polytheistic, you have grossly mischaracterized real Christianity. Christians believe they are three separate personages AND YET simultaneously one personage. That is the mystery of the trinity to Christians (or at least Lutherans). It is thought to be a mystery beyond our human comprehension. I would compare it to quantum physics - the idea that things simultaneously exist in ALL states while being individual states as well.
Big miss, guys. Big miss.
We explained that, we just don't believe it's true. At what point did we mischaracterize the trinity?
The truth is Joseph Smith was a Trinitarian and D&C 20:28 reads very Trinitarian but then again the LDS faith isn't consistent
This is why I’m assured and happy being an Orthodox Christian
LDS believes that there are 3 persons that build up the godhead.
the Father,The Son,The Holy Spirit.
the Father is god,the son is god,the holy spirit is god,but in different medium as said in john 14:28
Nasanieru ナサニエル doesn’t that still mean 3 people?
They are all members of the godhead
YUGE QUESTION is the heavenly mother in the Godhead?
I’m slowly gathering that LDS don’t believe that Jesus is God. They believe he is a god with a little g and not coequal to The Father. Is this accurate?
How can Jesus be his son if it's him? How can Jesus sacrifice himself to appease himself?
3:21 not a trinitarian myself, but here we see semantic confusion. The three personages of the Nicene trinity are: God the Father, (Jehovah) God the son, (Jesus) and God the holy spirit (The holy spirit). Of course, because many don't want to use God's name Jehovah, it can be confusing to tell between God the Father and God the participated in.
judeochristianity is not monotheism, it is henotheism.
As far as I know, Mormons do believe the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all divine. Despite this, they believe they are three separate beings. Beings, to get our terminology correct, meaning substance, and actually who/what they are. The Father, Son, and HS are united in this single substance. They are a single being/substance/deity, and we know this because of these Bible passages: John 1:1-14, John 10:30, Matthew 28:19, Matthew 3:16-17. Now, in these passages, some say the Son is united with the Father (John 10:30), yet the story of Jesus's baptism presents them as three separate individuals. This is the mystery of the Trinity. Jesus is united with His Father in substance, yet He is separate from His Father because they are separate individuals. And to believe that they are separate beings implies they are separate divine entities, which means they are separate deities. If they are separate deities, that means there's more than one God. And the Bible teaches there is only one God: YHWH, Jehovah, Yahweh, whatever you would like to call Him. Our God is one, and, when we say that, our human mind instantly equates that with God being one individual. This isn't necessarily the case, especially considering in Genesis 1:26 when God says, "let US make man in OUR image." In the video, brother on the left (not sure of his name) had an issue with the phrase "Jesus is God." I've already quoted Scripture, but let's quote from Christians who learned from John the Apostle, starting with Ignatius in his letter to the Ephesians: "There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." As I said earlier, Ignatius learned this from John. The Holy Spirit is truly God as well: 2 Corinthians 3:17, 1 Corinthians 3:16. If Jesus is God and if the Holy Spirit is God, then they are not separate beings from the Father. If they were, they're three separate deities/Gods. There is one God, and there's three people who are each equally and fully the same God and substance, yet they are still three separate individuals.
Except Jesus existed prior to his human form, he is the Angel of the Lord. The commander of heavens armies and He was the word and the word was with it and the word was God.
Billy Batson, This is true.
But he's still the spirit child of God the Father, brother of Satan and our elder brother right?
I never really understood this.... It always seemed to be obvious to me that Jesus and God are separate. I did not grow up in this church.
Platonic thought…. Look up Plotinus interpretation on the triune god. Looks to me like the three degrees of glory..
Except it’s not top down view commonly drawn. It’s emanations upon itself….
🤷🏻♂️
Has Elohim got a name? Yes: Tetragrammaton; the four Hebrew consonants YHWH. This name appears in the Old Testament 6,823 times.
In the KJV the translators used the name Jehovah FOUR times; with the word LORD (upper case) in the other 6,819.
John 20:14-17
Thank you for this video! I've watched it several times now over the past week and feel like I have a better understanding of who/what our God is!
Oh Nick, I hope that God will reveal to you the true Jesus soon
Maybe if it weren’t for people like you he would actually listen to what you would have to say instead of you being cynical and spiteful towards our religion and overall disrespectful. Christ taught love before anything and if you go in with the attitude of proving someone wrong you’re going to get nowhere. I hope one day that you will be more respectful to those who have a differing opinion than you. If your God is the true God then he is evil deity who sends people who have no knowledge of his existence to eternal torment simply because they had no experience with his gospel. However I believe in a more loving God who will never let such a thing like that happen
And Jesus didn't marry
Cannot be in high heaven RIGHT
@mikeoniones667 he was with the father in the beginning, who is to say that he isn't married already?
What about all the lions and elephants and and all the animals that is in the mormon book they never was in America lol
John 1 of the Bible quite plainly says that Jesus is God. Almost verbatim.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word *was* God [...] and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us”
It is really quite plain. I’m the Bible. Not an idea that came after the apostles or Jesus.
So basically you believe in 3 gods father the god Jesus the son of god who created the world and the Holy Spirit is god so you are worshipping three separate gods which paganism. Never the less wouldn’t it be easier if god the father is the one true god eliohim and that’s it . His son Jesus Christ that’s all not god and the Holy Spirit which is the comforter. We cant have three gods worshipping just 1 god end of
The Mormon Doctrine is completely contrary to the Biblical Doctrine, the Mormon doctrine is completely different than Christianity, Mormons should never call themselves Christians. The Bible has all the answers, it is obvious that you have no knowledge of the scriptures. Your religion is polytheism, you believe in many Gods, and your religion teaches that God is an exalted man and that men can also be just like God and can be exalted and become Gods, so this makes you a polytheism religion.
The Bible is the Word of God, it is the authority of the Christian faith, it is not of man but of God.
The Bible reveals that a triune man is created in the likeness of a triune God. Man has three elements spirit, soul, and body, but in one personality. There is a correspondence between the nature of God and the nature of man. Three in one. Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely: and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1Thess 5:23. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. Romans 10: 2-3
While I don't know if you would miss out on salvation for not believing in the Trinity, you CANNOT be saved if you deny that Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah is the one true God. If you deny this, there is no salvation for you because you reject the one true gospel.
Putting limitations on God and splitting Him seems... Unnecessary.
Pretty easy way to put Lucifer and Christ on the same level though.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God.” John 1:1 KJV
From what I understand, the LDS church believes in the Bible. Since this verse from the Bible, how can they believe that God the Father is different from, and therefore above, God the Son. Since the Word is Jesus, and it says that the Word was both God and with God, isn’t that in support of the idea of the Trinity not a Godhead?
I’m not trying to call you out or play “gotcha” or whatever, I’m simply trying to understand your religion and demystify it for myself. I am a Methodist so this is not me badmouthing Christianity. If someone could help explain this, it would be very appreciated.
Hello
Jesus is the Messiah
The Son of God
The Son of David
The Son of man
The man God has chosen to be his anointed king
The man God will judge the world through
Jesus has a God
There is no triune god in scripture
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
Orthodox Christian here, I want to set the record straight with the nicene creed. We do not believe God is “one person three purposes”, the creed does not state that. It’s 3 persons, one in essence; the essence-energy distinction is very important.
We are more than a physical body. If so where did our spirits come from. Here is a good way to explain it . I am only one and the Father of my children that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers. God is only one and the Father of our spirit that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers in heaven to..the essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. A baby can grow up and become an adult. We can grow up and become like our Heavenly Father.
We all lived as a big Family befor we came to earth as just babes or spirit children of real Heavenly parents. We could see that our Heavenly parents had already been through a process. They had glorified resurrected bodies of flesh and bones. We as just babes and spirit children desired to grow up and become more like our Heavenly parents. We could see that faith while we primarily lived by sight. We could see that they had been through a lot to become all they were are .a lot of testing and experiences for the calisstecticks of growth. They are grown up and are parents..to recap. They had been through a resurrection. They had faith while we primarily lived by sight. They had been through a lot of experiences of becoming to be complete . We lived there as their children spirit children. We did not have these bodies yet .just as most children want to grow up and become more. We to desired to become more like our Heavenly parents. So our Heavenly Father created this spinning blue planet. So when we came to earth they placed a veil of forgetfulness over our minds thus giving us the opportunity to develop faith and I know of no other way. The holy ghost is a testifier of truth . I know that the great prophet Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. Sweet to know truth . Be happy and know that you are love . Thanks guys great job . When are you going to have me on your show program. You will love it .
How do all you guys not understand the trinity. The lds church understands the godhead as the way they did in the old testament and before that. Maybe study some religions that were before Christianity. They still testify of Christ, but nobody ever said he would be God. Show me that in old testament prophecies. The Trinity is one in the same sense that all people on earth are one person.
Jehovah of the Old Testament is NOT Jesus of the New Testament.
Who came up with this "Revelation"?
So how can they be Co equal col eternal. When you have a father and a son and they say the son is the begotten son. And begotten has a beginning. And who is Jesus's father? The Bible says that the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary. So is the Holy Ghost the father or is the Father the father of Jesus?
1:56 "Three separate beings in one" This is explicitly not what the Christian doctrine of the Trinity is. It says God is one being, not three.
Also, the fullness of each person is in each other person, so not "separate" either, if we're gonna be super strict
God is only one. God is not woman nor man. God does not have children. Jesus is not God, nor the son of God. Jesus is His messenger, just like all our other prophets. In islam we use the word Allah, when we refer to God. This because the word has no plural and no gender. The concept of God is so simple and easy to understand for all human beings, but men have made that concept illogical introducing the trinity.
@kwaku, a perfect example of how the Trinity comes to play is found in the Book of Mormon, with regards to King Lamoni and his Father who is also a King but he is above Lamoni. God is just a title referred to deity. So Jesus is God not the Father, but a deity. If I have the same name as my father, that doesn't make me my father. I can even have similar physical features yet I am not and will never be my father. That is how I believe the Trinity works.
Then how is that different from what LDS believe?
John 14:28 Jesus said the father is greater
David Hurtado - Yes in his role, not in nature.
Much like a Father is ‘greater’ than his Son, in that a good sin submits to his fathers authority, yet they are both equally human and have an equal nature.
Wait so r yall polytheists then?
No.
Yes
there is no comparison original SWs is the standard for them all LOL
This is great :D Ian is so good at explaining things and Kwaku makes you really feel what they're talking about 💚 Thanks Kwaku for what you said about about getting crud from others, man is it hard to explain that Christianity isn't owned being in a country where the Catholic Church technically shouldn't but in reality controls e v e r y t h i n g and people all around you including leaders of that church feel they have the right to basically bully you. Like all the time. And just be so unfair. Luckily it's totally true that if we have the light of Christ and let it shine people will see it and are willing to actually listen to what you have to say (or click on the link to a 3 Mormons video you send them 😏)
Ask Google what is the Hebrew word for God: answer is Elohim.
In Trinity - People believe that because God is so powerful and nothing is impossible so Heavenly Father is Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ is Heavenly Father and Holy Ghost, Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father that's why they have 1 God. For them this is not impossible because He is God.
For me the Godhead of LDS has a lot of sense that there are separate beings namely Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost but one in purpose only to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of men. Joseph Smith is a powerful witness that God the Father is separate being from Jesus Christ. In LDS everything we do, we do it and address to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ❣️🙏 peace and love everyone 💓
Uhh no the trinity does not work like that. The Son is NOT the Father, and so on. Trinitarians believe that all three persons are 1 God, despite the Son, the Father, and the Holy Spirit not being the same person, and each person of the trinity is 100% God (not 1/3 of God.)
i screamed at the Star Trek joke too.
As a non LDS member who believes in the Trinity, anyone who wants to learn about the Trinity, PLEASE watch another video or read a book or article on it. These two are well intentioned, but the way they describe the historic doctrine of the Trinity is horribly inaccurate. I was cringing the whole way through.
Ian, can u do a portuguese subtitle? Brasil neeeeeds to listen those things
Raposa de Saia yes! I don’t think his Portuguese is good enough though; when he speaks he has a strong accent. They could hire me lol!
YEAH! I want so much to share all videos with my friends but they don't speak english :(
@@MadFoxxx You would be leading your friends astray, rejecting the true God for that of a false prophet
That intro was ridiculous. Not even funny. Just stupid.
Jesus Is God Scripture List
• John 1:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
• John 1:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
• There seems to be a direct connection between the Septuagint and Jesus’ usage of ego eimi. In Isaiah 43:10 we read, “that you may know, and believe, and understand, that I am He” (personal translation). In the LXX this is rendered thus: hina gnote kai pisteusete kai sunete hoti ego eimi. In John 13:19, Jesus says to the disciples, “from now on I tell you before it comes to pass in order that when it does happen, you may believe that I am.” (personal translation). In Greek the last phrase is hina pisteusete hotan genetai hoti ego eimi. When one removes the extraneous words (such as hotan genetai which connects the last clause to the first) and compares these two passages, this is the result:
Is. 43:10: hina pisteusete … hoti ego eimi,
Jn. 13:19: hina pisteusete … hoti ego eimi, -Alpha and Omega Ministries
• John 8:58 New King James Version (NKJV)
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
• John 10:30 New King James Version (NKJV)
30 I and My Father are one.”
• Isaiah 9:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
• John 20:27-28 New King James Version (NKJV)
27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
• John 17:21 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
• Colossians 2:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead [a]bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all [b]principality and power.
There Is Only One God Scripture List
• Compare Isaiah 44.6, Revelation 2.8 and Revelation 1:17-18:
-Isaiah 44:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
There Is No Other God
6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
-Revelation 2:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Persecuted Church
8 “And to the [a]angel of the church in Smyrna write,
‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:
-Revelation 1:17-18 New King James Version (NKJV)
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying [a]to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of [b]Hades and of Death
• 1 Corinthians 8:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
• Acts 20:28 New King James Version (NKJV)
28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church [a]of God which He purchased with His own blood.
A Note: There are other scriptures as well that confirm Jesus as God. This is a good list, but is incomplete. However, it is more than enough to reveal the truth and make all who read it with an open mind and with honesty confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Deuteronomy 6:4 says God is one.
John 3:16 says Jesus is God's son.
Jesus says God is Spirit, thus Jesus is not God because Jesus is a man.
The holy spirit is God, not another person. God is called many things, Father of lights, Jehovah, Jah.
The spirit of God dwelled in Jesus, a mouthpiece in the most immaculate sense because his issue was not from the issue of fallen man.
Jesus now is on God's right hand and has all authority in the heavens and earth until God has made his enemies Christ's footstool, once this has been done Jesus will subordinate himself to the Father so God can be all in all.
Best intro yet
Joseph smith faud who can beieve him
Originally B of M had trinity in it. Later they changed it to son of- son of God from God the Son.
I have no issues with referring to Christ as 'God the Son', since Christ is indeed a god. We don't believe this verbage changes the fundamental doctrine of the Godhead within our faith.
God's Word is rich with the Triunity, as it mentions all 3 nature of the Triune Godhead: God the Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit throughout the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation relevant to Hebrew/Greek. Here is just ONE basic example:
Deuteronomy 6:4 (English concept) "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." (on the surface this sounds like Unitarian Godhead in today's basic literal English language).
In Hebrew translation: Shema prayer- Yisrael, Yehowah, Elohainoo, Yehowah aichod--"`Hear, Israel Jehovah, our God,is one Jehovah." (meaning):
God
God=ONE--->Triunity.
God
"LORD" in all caps is the tetragrammaton for YHWH (Yahweh is the Father's name) in the OT.While Elohim in Hebrew is simply his title.
On this passage the Jews lay great stress and it is one of the four passages which they write on their phylacteries: On the word {elohim}, Seimeon Ben Joachi says: "Come and see the mystery of the word Elohim: that there are three degrees, and each degree is by itself alone, and yet they are all one, and joined together in one, and are not divided from each other."
Evidently, Joseph Smith Junior never understood Hebrew (OT) nor Greek (NT) relative to his 1779 edition of the KJV. Which is why he violated the very fundamental tenet in Biblical Christianity--->the Trinity. The problem with Mormons is that they rely heavily on English while reading God's Word in a literal sense instead of contextually relevant to Hebrew/Greek.
For minute 6:13 Paul says Jesus is equal to the Father. Phil 2:6, “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:” . the Father is Greater (John 14:38), because Jesus was submitted to the Father and never did anything He did not see the Father doing (John 5:19).
Mormonism is a heresy wake up we will never be gods humble yourself in front of our Lord Jesus
Something interesting I discovered as I'm reading through the book of Mormon. It seems very Trinitarian.
But you misrepresented the Trinitarian position. No Trinitarian who knows what they believe would call God 3 beings.
The Bible is full of references to God being ONE. Mormons believe in 3 separate gods. It seems really hard to square that circle.
@@saintpaxman4403 Grace And Peace. seems to me "Trinitarian" because:
*"In the mouth of TWO or THREE witnesses, let TRUTH Be Established"*
Correct?:
Friend(s), SURELY, you _"Believe"_ your OWN book? The one you asked
me TO PRAY ABOUT, TO: "receive A BURNING IN MY BOSOM, that
*it is The TRUTH!"?* Correct?
Q: Can we Absolutely "trust" an angel {that told} Zeezrom, And Also
these: Amulek, Alma, Abinadi, And Mosiah? Is the "testimony" of:
THESE SIX "witnesses" *_"Reliable"?:_*
“And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest *There Is A True And Living God?*
“And Amulek said: *YEA, There Is A True And Living God!*
“Now Zeezrom said: *Is there MORE THAN ONE God?*
“And he answered, *NO!*
“Now Zeezrom said unto him again: How knowest thou these things?
“And he said: An angel hath made them known unto me.”
(Alma 11 : 21-22, 26-31) { Is this a KNOWN *TRUTH!* or a "lie"? }
“Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, Which IS
*ONE ETERNAL God!"* (Alma 11 : 44) *TRUE!* OR "False"???
-------------------------
And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
*That God HIMSELF* Shall come down among the children of men,
and Shall Redeem His people. And because he dwelleth in flesh he
shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the
will of the Father, being the Father and the Son- The Father, because
he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the
flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son-
And *THEY Are ONE God, YEA, The Very ETERNAL Father* of heaven
and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to *The Spirit, or*
*The Son to The Father, Being ONE God,* suffereth temptation, and
yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and
scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people. (Mosiah 15 : 1, 2, 5)
And ONE Last Question: *The Truth Of ONE God,* or yet Another "Lie"?
-----------------------------
Next? "Salvation"? by *The ONE TRUE God!?* or, will you STAY with:
"Plural godS"?
Saint Christopher
I love this!!!
So would you say that this godhead you believe is.... dun dun dun...... 3 MORMONS?!
But don't you all teach the father was born and not eternal?
No.
I am LDS but I have a Catholic education. Mormons believe in 3 Gods and 3 persons. They are one in purpose. One team, and one Godhead but they are three. Catholics and other Trinitarians believe in one God and three persons. They believe that because monotheism is important to them. But the Old Testament and New Testament and the Apostolic Fathers are not completely clear on this.
Joseph Smith talks about one God infinite and eternal in D&C Section 20 verse 12,17,19 & 28
How do we understand today as Three Seperate Gods?
*Asking this question with love and curiosity*
You guys are absolutely nutty
Should a guy that hasn't even seen Star Trek be talking about the church? I'm just sayin'. #deepspaceninerules. He doesn't even know what the Rules of Acquisition are. Jeeez.
LD$
Are these Mormons
The trinity doesn’t make any sense, why wouldn’t God just take on one form as Christ and not talk about the Father and the Holy Spirit?
Ian that windbreaker though can't wait to see you and Kwaku in February
Blasphemy
God is the King, Jesus is the Prince, the Holy Ghost is the Duke