Two Decades In Amsterdam: What Italians Think About Dutch Culture After 23 Years! | The Movement Hub
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- Join Claudia and Daniela, two Italians who have spent over two decades living in Amsterdam, as they share their candid thoughts on Dutch culture and the unexpected challenges they've faced.
From social norms to cultural shocks, discover how these long-term expats have navigated life in the Netherlands and their perspectives on Dutch customs. Their stories provide valuable insights for anyone considering a move to Amsterdam or curious about the realities of integrating into Dutch society.
Claudia and Daniela moved from Italy to Amsterdam more than 23 years ago, and describe how they perceive the people in this city and Dutch culture.
Please please like, share, and subscribe. And let us know in the comments how you experience the Dutch culture.
And stay tuned for more videos about life in different European cities.
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This video is about Two Decades In Amsterdam: What Italians Think About Dutch Culture After 23 Years! But It also covers the following topics:
Italian Perspective On Dutch Life
Living Abroad In The Netherlands
Expat Life Challenges In Amsterdam
Video Title: Two Decades In Amsterdam: What Italians Think About Dutch Culture After 23 Years! | The Movement Hub
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"[...]Because these two ladies do not speak with a filter."
It doesn't get more Dutch than that.
Well ...yeah...whether we like it or not, after so many years here, we have adapted and absorbed some of the Dutch-ness😊
Bluntness is not an exclusive prerogative of the Dutch, as asserted. It is crucial to distinguish between bluntness and arrogance, as the latter does not necessarily represent direct communication but often reflects an egocentric attitude. The arrogant behaves like a "boss," imposing their opinions without considering others' perspectives, prioritizing only their personal interest, often of a materialistic nature.
On the other hand, the blunt person expresses themselves clearly and directly but is also capable of arguing their opinions, demonstrating critical awareness, using history, logic, and empathizing with others. This type of communication encourages reasoning and reflection.
In my experience in Amsterdam, I have noticed that many natives tend more towards arrogance than towards bluntness. A clear example of bluntness can be found in the words of an Italian girl, who shows mastery of concepts and the ability for emotional and human analysis.
It is important to emphasize that many Italians, including myself and the girls in the mentioned video, are not servile but kind without compromising their dignity. This attitude may be perceived as a challenge for the Dutch accustomed to a certain degree of submission for material or professional reasons.
Mastery of language, self-awareness, and awareness of one's own history make one immune to a servile attitude, instead favoring logical reasoning and respect for human feelings. These qualities are inherent to personality and cannot be taught in school.
With regards,
G.
@@gregorjcocco posso dirtelo? Ti lovvo 😍😍😍😍😍😍
@@gregorjcocco io e la mia amica ti ringraziamo per le tue belle parole che dimostrano di aver capito appieno il nucleo del nostro discorso. Grazie 😍
@@Sealover76 Io ti ammiro molto. Sai Claudia in questi 12 anni olandesi quanto ho aspettato (e auspicato) di poter ascoltare quei concetti da te e da voi proferiti che pensavo ormai facessero parte di una mia inevitabile e conclusiva rassegnazione?
Sai, un po' come quando accade di sentire o di avvertire forte un concetto, un'ingiustizia, e percepire il silenzio tutt'attorno. Ecco qualcosa del genere.
E mi domandavo: «Possibile che nessuno noti queste ovvietà?» «Possibile che in nome di una materialistica possibilità lavorativa, ci siano esseri umani che riescono a passare sopra questi atteggiamenti così patetici e spesso surreali»?
E poi è arrivata Claudia con la sua Amica, e per me è stata una inenarrabile boccata di ossigeno.
G.
I have also experienced these points in Italy.
I was born and raised in the Netherlands, The Hague. Lived and worked in Parma for 5 years.
First of all, very few people speak English, but I already knew that in advance. I have been on holiday and with family in Italy often enough. Some information: I have a Dutch mother and Italian father, but my father never taught me Italian. When I went to work in Italy I could speak a very little Italian. Fortunately, the company I worked for was mostly in English internationally. Getting private business done at the municipality or other institutions was a disaster. The language barrier and of course the bureaucracy, chaos, etc. My personal experience is that if you do not know the language and do not adopt the local customs, it is difficult for you to get involved and make friends. From what time, which type of coffee you can and cannot drink to which pasta sauce you can use on which pasta, it differs per city, region, etc.
Italy is a fantastic holiday destination but not a place to live. Maybe only when I'm retired. I'm happy to be back in the Netherlands.
Appreciate you sharing your experiences. I can see that living in Italy as an expat can be very challenging, and brings its own form of conservatism. But good to hear that you feel comfortable where you decided to move eventually.
In my opinion too many people speak english here. Italians should learn from France, there if you ask "do you speak english?" they say: "oui, francais très bien".
J'aime la France
I can say that I'm delighted because they have moderation in everything. They don't talk too loudly, they don't eat too much, they're not too attached to their parents and friends, while in the Balkan countries and the entire Mediterranean it's all too much for my sensibility and here I feel like I'm with my peoole. If something is not too much, it doesm't mean it's not enough for healty relations and life .
Family and friends are very important in the Netherlands. It is just done in a different way than in Italy. The six o'clock dinner is so important especially because this is when the whole nuclear family is together. This when everybody tells sbout their day at work, school or at home.
Some good insights
Then why a lot of people don't sleep overnight in their parents already in adulthood every now and then when they do visit?
@@FranciscoSilva-pm9otStudents often stay the weekend at their parents house. But when you have your own real home, it is more comfortable to sleep there than in your old childhood room. And distances are short in the Netherland so you can visit your parents and still be home in time to sleep in your own bed.
I'm the lady in the video. I wanna clear one thing out: i do speak Dutch. Of course after so many years here i speak the language. I meant to say that it is not easy to learn it for many reasons.
And you clearly stated it in the video. Not sure why people keep assuming otherwise.
@@TheMovementHub , I have a theory on this matter. As I've mentioned in comments on your previous video productions, many Dutch individuals exhibit a tendency to only 'hear' what they want to hear, disregarding any other elements that may challenge their fragile sense of security, which would crumble upon encountering objective reasoning. The infamous exclamatory phrase 'geen discussie!' ('no discussion!'), often used interchangeably with 'no reasoning,' is frequently employed to cut short any discourse that might potentially embarrass them.
Such clumsy tactics may have been effective decades ago within national borders. However, in today's globally interconnected world, they merely serve to expose the cognitive, logical, and emotional deficits that many of them possess.
The more they struggle to deny it, the more they unwittingly make themselves objects of ridicule in the eyes of readers worldwide.
G.
Hi Gregor. Great to see you back in the comments. And I always appreciate how involved you are in the subjects. I also read through your other responses and am glad to have you here. I will refrain from giving my opinion on the matter though. As the creator of this channel, I feel like I need to stay as diplomatic as possible.
Hello dear @@TheMovementHub ,
I've been absent due to a line of thought similar to what you've written: I considered taking a break, given the risk of misunderstandings that sometimes accompany online conversations.
Thank you for the work you do and for the warmth you show towards everyone who comments on your videos. Maintaining an impartial and fair attitude is crucial to foster an open and sincere dialogue on a channel of candid content like yours.
You produce and share videos that challenge the falsehood of "political correctness" and promote spontaneity and human genuineness. In an era where such content is increasingly rare, I hope your work can inspire a trend towards greater authenticity and honesty in the media.
Criticism, when constructive, is never negative. It shows us our imperfections, but also our virtues. It's like a mirror reflecting our essence, even if sometimes what we see can be uncomfortable.
There are different types of criticism: thoughtful, respectful, objective, and sometimes even satirical. It's important to keep our critical thinking active, especially considering the rich philosophical and intellectual traditions of past cultures.
It's not true that money is the only priority in today's world. It's just one of many human inventions destined to evolve over time. Let's always keep our humanity at the center of our actions and decisions.
Let's stay human.
G.
@@TheMovementHub , I've been absent due to a line of thought similar to what you've written: I considered taking a break, given the risk of misunderstandings that sometimes accompany online conversations.
Thank you for the work you do and for the warmth you show towards everyone who comments on your videos. Maintaining an impartial and fair attitude is crucial to foster an open and sincere dialogue on a channel of candid content like yours.
You produce and share videos that challenge the falsehood of "political correctness" and promote spontaneity and human genuineness. In an era where such content is increasingly rare, I hope your work can inspire a trend towards greater authenticity and honesty in the media.
Criticism, when constructive, is never negative. It shows us our imperfections, but also our virtues. It's like a mirror reflecting our essence, even if sometimes what we see can be uncomfortable.
There are different types of criticism: thoughtful, respectful, objective, and sometimes even satirical. It's important to keep our critical thinking active, especially considering the rich philosophical and intellectual traditions of past cultures.
It's not true that money is the only priority in today's world. It's just one of many human inventions destined to evolve over time. Let's always keep our humanity at the center of our actions and decisions.
Let's stay human.
G.
I'm also from Southern Europe and also been living in Amsterdam for 6 years and this is quite on point. One thing that still staggers me is this collective fixation on constantly "doing" something and "going" somewhere, that you always have to be busy with something. I'd wish people would be able to switch gears more and also appreciate more the beauty of the little things.
Amsterdam is not a city where you know your own neighbor. It is a city in a hurry, politically correct, networking, rapid changes, time is money, looking for a career, many foreign speakers and many expats both from abroad and domestic. In average Dutch cities and villages there is more cohesion between local residents, joint BBQs are organized and there is more time for family visits (and free parking also helps). In small towns and villages, strangers are always greeted, but that is really not the case in Amsterdam. In Amsterdam everyone is for themselves.
For a foreigner who wants to emigrate to the Netherlands, I do not recommend choosing Amsterdam, but cities like Amersfoort, Groningen or Den Bosch. Less English is spoken here, so it helps to learn Dutch faster.
Thanks a lot for your advice and nice words. And for not getting offended by the video. I also experienced other Dutch cities as more friendly and gezellig than Amsterdam.
"In small towns and villages, strangers are always greeted": This is true, it struck me coming from a small German town, where I spent a year and people don't greet you to a small Dutch town where everyone greets and smiles. I am from an African country, that really pleases me. One of the ladies did stress she's talking about Amsterdam indeed
Exactly. I made very similar experiences. People in smaller Dutch towns can be very sweet and greeting each other, which was very refreshing for me, coming from a big city.
De groeten uit Venlo . We say HOI when we pass each other on the street here - Come to the hills of Limburg if you want to connect with people !
en ja, leer Nederlands and insist on people speaking Dutch with you !
The irony of her wanting the Dutch to bring back foreign cultural ideas about how time is spent while not having adapted herself after 23 years.
I know Dutch culture very well. Living abroad and getting to know a new culture doesn't mean having to adapt to it nor having to rebel against it. I'm entitled to an opinion and while I embrace the positive thing of living here , I'm allowed to say the things I don't like. Nevertheless I'm respectful of this country .
And if you listen well, I'm talking about things the Dutch like when abroad... if that's the spontaneity, the friendliness.. why not make then part of your life once back in NL? There are things that i like pf fhe dutch culture as well that k wish my people in Italy would have, such as freedom from judgments and no bigots.
I do believe that every quality has got its down side and each flaw has got its positive side
@@Sealover76 The Dutch have plenty of bigots. But just because I like something exotic and new abroad doesn't mean I'd want it at home. The Netherlands, for all it's progressive thinking, is still fairly conservative at heart. I've been living in Australia for about 20 years now. And I do like locals do.
6:30 You will never learn to speak dutch properly if you don't develop a love for it.
exact.
i'm italian living in italy and all they say about the pros of italian culture vs dutch culture are the things I find really obnoxious here in italy... wanna swap places??
Very interesting
I completely understand what you mean, but I think w can agree that extremes are never good. And you say this now cause you do not live abroad. Try it and lets talk about it again in 10 years.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 whoever made this video is a rockstar. I wanna be friends with those ladies. They are a hoot!!
Hahahah thank you thank you. Much appreciated 😁
ah ah ! Thanks! Yes, we can be very amusing, kinda like the Statler of the muppet show ahaha1 :)
I agree with these ladies. Without speaking Dutch it is difficult to completely integrate. The sitting lady was smart to continue speaking Dutch. On the other hand, there are also very close Dutch families and people that don't mind being generous and pay a restaurant bill. When she keeps having an open mind she might be meeting some of them.
Thanks for your input Joost. I hope that this experience will happen at some point.
Being spontanious? that is only at holidaytime in a shamefull way. Than we Dutch become crazy. We jump out of our over organised life. I am often ashamed when I am with my compatriots abroad. I don't want to be with them.
I also experienced the Dutch as very relaxed and playful when on holiday.
Honestly these women are exaggerating beyond measure. I’m Dutch and all of my Dutch friends are quite easy with money, and tikkies are only sent for big amounts. We all see our families quite a lot and call them multiple times per week (I call my mom like every other day). I can’t remember when i last ate a cheese sandwich, and at work we have a caterer who cooks warm meals for lunch for those who want. We usually have dinner somewhere between 7 and 8 PM, and I often text my friends on a Friday to ask them if they have any plans for the weekend… and no, I’m NOT an exception.
These bitter women are stuck in their stereotypical ways of thinking…
@@TheMovementHub they probably also nicer and relaxed once at home than the average you meet here.
I' m Dutch, Family means a lot, for a lot of Dutchies. It is not so much on the surface though.
I live in Italia I am not Italian and what they’re saying is not really correct they Italian they think only about money they talk about money all the time and they have no time for friendships or for coffee or whatever these people are saying it’s not true sorry sorry sorry
This talks about these two ladies if it’s really true in Italia, where I live, that means only in small villages, but in cities, even small cities, it doesn’t exist everybody’s working they have no time to see you, and they think all the time every time and talk only about money and opportunities. If it’s not that they don’t see you I live in their country and I know it very well. Sorry sorry
Italy must be better than the Netherlands ,dit i read this correct 23 years of frustration, Are the borders closed?
No jobs, no money in Italy
@@samsadeniz
I wonder how they live?
When you hate a language and then complain you havent learned to speak it after 25 years and blame the locals……
They are just repeating the same old stereotypes that keep floating around. No close Dutch friends but still they know exactly how the Dutch (all of them?) are. They are 23 years in the Netherlands, one of them still managed to learn it, and blaming it on the Dutch? I know many expats who speak near perfect Dutch after just 2 or 3 years and have built good friendships with locals. I think Dutch society is much more open than the Italian. Good luck finding a decent paying job in Italy as an outsider. Best jobs are reserved to their so beloved 'friends and family'. Can any immigrant in Italy easily build meaningful friendships with locals? These ladies need a reality check.
I see your point, but what we talk about are not clichés, it's reality. And of course there are many things that are not ok in Italy or else we would not be here ,right? Life is about priorities: NL offers nevertheless positive things that matter to me in this point of my life. I sacrifice some wishes ,dreams for the sake of other important things. As life continues and I will change with it, and my priorities will change too, I could/might/will leave. Life is unpredictable. And yes, reason no.1 for not going to italy is work. In another video I talk very well about working conditions in NL.
and btw : I do speak dutch, I did not say I don' t speak it. I said they don't make it easy for you to learn it. And of course , even thought I do not have close dutch friends, I know the dutch. I was married to one for 15 years, my kids go to school here , I AM integrated and this is why I can have an opinion based on MY facts. It remains of course my own POV. This is not an absolute truth, but what I havve experienced. I understand it hurts for the dutch to hear it, immediately the reaction goes into defense, into "well if you do not like it go back to your own country " ( I see why WIlders won the elections...). It also hurts me to hear all the MAFIA ( one F in the spelling..) jokes the dutch make when they speak to us, italians, or the hand gestures ( used every single time in the wrong way ) . So I feel your feelings.
This specific video was about life in The Netherlands. I am pretty sure these two ladies would have been just as frank and open had the topic been about life in Italy. After all, the fact that they are still living in the Netherlands after so many years speaks for itself. Take a chill pill.
@@Sealover76 Als Nederlannd zo slecht is in jullie ogen , waarom verkas je dan niet naar Italie , ik zou er nog niet eens over hoeven na te denken , want jullie hebben jezelf al jaren gemarteld zo te horen . Wat was dat spreekwoord ook alweer , de hand die jou aait bijt je niet .
Italy is a low trust society, what did you expect?
Whatever these women say its blown way out of proportions. I find the dutch really friendly. They say hello on the street, they talk to you in a line and they are actually pretty helpful people.Yes, they are organized and they like planning. Italians are quite the opposite of that therefore the disconnect. You can't call a dutch out of the blue or go ring at the door and if you live in NL you should respect that.If you are an immigrant you adapt to the culture of where you are not the other way around. Sorry, but if you are 25 yrs in NL and you are unable to speak a word of Dutch thats on you. Saying they don't integrate you cause they reply in English is just lazy.
once again, in the video I am not saying I dont speak dutchm which I do and I also have my NT2 diploma. I am saying that they do not make it easy for a foreigner to learn it. And of course I respect that the ducth are not like italians ( like calling a friend out of the blue) and will not oblige tthe dutchie to accept my unplanned calls /visits ( I am a very polite person) but I believe I am allowed to an opinion. I just think in life there should be more room for spontaneity
@@Sealover76 Learning a foreign language becomes particularly challenging when those who speak it fail to demonstrate empathy or a genuine inclination towards spontaneous communication. Claudia's observation is undeniably valid: "It's extremely difficult for a foreigner to learn a foreign language in this context." It's worth noting, furthermore, that we're referring to a language that objectively doesn't stand out for its musicality. Many foreigners even describe it as "cacophonous," especially when compared to more harmonious and melodious languages found in the global linguistic landscape.
However, as previously highlighted, considering that foreigners in the Netherlands are essentially guests, it's legitimate to expect these guests to communicate with the Dutch in the local language. On this point, my position is categorical.
So let's discuss the learning and usage of the Dutch language. During the learning process and afterward, when the language has been acquired, what are we talking about? In what contexts is it used?
The Dutch language is primarily used in two domains: the workplace, characterized by pragmatism and materialism, and in superficial conversations, sometimes resembling elementary school dialogues, a circumstance that would be considered childish in other parts of the world.
Superficiality, however, certainly isn't the main driver behind linguistic production.
The use of the Dutch language thus essentially boils down to work and surface-level interactions. This is an undeniable reality.
Claudia expresses a desire to see greater room for spontaneity within the cultures present in this region. Personally, I believe that this aspiration is utopian, as a "superficial and spontaneous" approach would come across as surreal and childish.
It's no coincidence that in these parts, "spontaneity" is almost always associated with the consumption of alcohol or drugs. However, it should be emphasized that this doesn't represent genuine spontaneity but rather a form of mental alteration adopted by those who are unable to overcome inhibitions and show their true selves. Another factual reality.
On one hand, this situation is very sad; on the other, it often evokes feelings of tenderness and compassion in me.
G.
@@gregorjcocco oh my God... if only I was able to express myself as well as you do... I'd say the same exact things. Thanks for reading my thoughts
@@Sealover76 Dear Claudia,
I clearly grasped your ideas thanks to the genuineness and authenticity with which you expressed them. The spontaneous manner in which you shared your thoughts made evident the level of human sensitivity that likely unites us. However, allow me to assure you that this is not just a trait of mine; I am certain that anyone watching this video can perceive exactly what I have discerned.
In this regard, Claudia, I urge you not to be swayed by the "anomalous" responses I see you receiving. These are replies written by individuals who feel exposed and react with clumsy resentment. Sometimes they attempt to minimize or shift the focus of the discussion, while other times they simply utter nonsensical absurdities. When a response lacks substance, it is always misguided.
I believe the time is coming when many Dutch people will realize that their attitude of presumed superiority, primarily stemming from the colonial period, is now outdated. Today, there is no longer the colonizer dictating to the colonized what to do and how to do it with a simple "geen discussie" at the end of the sentence.
Yes, it's true: there are still some "expats" who tend to bend under this coercion, but more and more people are putting forth objective facts and beginning to evaluate without feeling the need to appear condescending towards the "Dutch merchant" of the moment.
Even the most stubborn Dutch will inevitably have to resign themselves to this new reality. Either they behave in a humane manner, or they will be relegated to the ranks of materialists, individualists, and apathetic antisocial individuals of the planet.
With respect,🤗
G.
Salve @@Sealover76 , cercavo di contattarti tramite messaggio, ma ho visto che UA-cam proprio non prevede questa opzione (i social non sono il mio forte, in sostanza ho soltanto facebook che uso poco o niente). Come potrei fare via internet per porti 2 domande circa l'esperienza amsterdamese ?
Grazie
G.
I love her Italian+ness 😊 "or somebody got-I don't know-a diploma for some reason" 😂😂 lol 1:48
I'm Dutch. And yes I switch very fast to English. Sorry for that. The key thing, is the moment I hear more English than Dutch. I don't even notice it. Living abroard is hard. Making new friends. Adapting to that new country and the "weird" people. The things mentioned are true in many cases. But sometimes not. It's been 2 decades. Hope it's not all bad. That would be a waste of time. For other foreigners I would recommend joining clubs. It's less stresfull than work, and a good way to find people with same interests. Try to stay as close to yourself as possible. People will get used to your "strange" way of doing things.
Not being filtered is about as Dutch as it gets. As I would call it, 'blunt honesty.' It can hurt some feelings, but in the long run, you know exactly a person's worth by their honesty.
However... I think their excuse for not learning the language or not integrating is just weak and pointing fingers at others.
We literally have free organizations you can sign up to as a foreigner to help learn Dutch. To be able to get around in the Netherlands. etc etc... saying it's our fault because we're being accommodating? That, to us, kinda feels like trash talking behind our backs... when all it took was for them to tell the person; Hey, mind talking in Dutch? I'm trying to learn the language.
Yes, it really is that simple. Saying it's our fault is just pointing fingers and lazy excuses.
And it's clear that left lady has no intentions of integrating. 'Why? The language is ugly' - This honestly feels like a slap in the face for our generosity we grant her.
To the right lady? Keep it up. But also, put in a lil effort and just ask us to continue talking Dutch if you're serious about it.
Thank you for your thought out answer. A contrast to some of the "if you don't like it, then get then get out of here" answers. I want to add however, that it is often not that easy for foreigners to practice their Dutch outside of language schools. I can only speak for Amsterdam here, and this can be very different in smaller places. But I've already heard from several people (under comments and in real conversations) that they purposely respond in English, to give foreigners a feeling that they are not included and will never be part of the society. Oftentimes foreigners feel the underlying intention, especially as it happens regularly. So it is not always being accommodating. And I know that this is of course not the case with every Dutch person. But it can be very discouraging, and exhausting to constantly explain to people that you want to speak in Dutch with them. If it happens with many little interaction like going to a shop, etc. Already starting the conversation in Dutch should, in theory, be enough. I've done interviews in Berlin, Amsterdam, and Prague so far, and this phenomenon seems to be unique to Amsterdam (so far). For example in Prague (also because they are less used to foreigners and expats living there and trying to learn their language) and also Berlin, people are very appreciative when they see that someone is trying. While in Amsterdam, like the lady said, you get the feeling that you are part of the society once you speak Dutch perfectly and accent-free. The latter will never be achievable if you moved here during adulthood, especially if you come from a non-nordic country.
@@TheMovementHub love your reply :)
Honestly these women are exaggerating beyond measure. I’m Dutch and all of my Dutch friends are quite easy with money, and tikkies are only sent for big amounts. We all see our parents and siblings quite a lot and call them multiple times per week (I call my mom like every other day). I can’t remember when I last ate a cheese sandwich, and at work we have a caterer who cooks warm meals for lunch for those who want. We usually have dinner somewhere between 7 and 8 PM, and I often text my friends on a Friday to ask them if they have any plans for the weekend… and no, I’m NOT an exception.
These bitter women are stuck in their stereotypical ways of thinking…
Their's is exactly mine and my expat friends experience. No one is bitter, amused maybe but not bitter.
@@susansobel3571It's my experience as well. The lack of family contact is astounding.
Spot on! I am Dutch, but very spontaneous and family is important, so I am not 'normal'
Interesting. I'm Dutch raised in the US. I guess I'm a mix of culture, but can see both sides. Good video.
Thank you. Glad to see that you found it interesting to hear this.
Third generation from Portugal born here in the Netherlands, so you think that Italians who come on holiday to the Netherlands and enjoy it and come back home should behave very differently?😂😂😂
The thing is that their statement that Dutch are not friendly or easygoing is a false one to begin with. In fact, though I agree the Dutch can be brutally blunt and direct, they’re also known to be friendly, curious to others, social, open, and willing to help others. This is what many other expats and tourists attest to. By comparison the Germans, Swiss, Nordics people are much more formal and reserved than the Dutch are, and in addition the French are a lot less friendly generally speaking. I think these women just have a lot of bad personal experiences, not sure how else I can clarify their statements.
By the way, I’m Dutch and have lived in the US, Belgium, and I just moved back to Amsterdam after having lived in Switzerland for 8 years… so I am able to make some comparisons. Fact is that when you live in a foreign country for some time, you tend to romanticize your home country after a while, and start seeing through pink glasses. That’s just how our brain works. We tend to remember the positives and forget about the negatives. And then when you actually move back, you’re in for a reality check. The Netherlands and Amsterdam are certainly no paradise, but these women do picture it a lot worse than it really is.
Many valid points raised, most of which I agree with
@daluzsoares I'm not saying they should, I'm saying that they could re-evaluate their behavior and if they liked the friendliness im italy ( or another southern country) why not starting to be friendlier here? And that was just an example...after all dont tourists do the same when trying a new dish when they are on holiday? Trying to make it in their own kitchen?sure it won't taste the same at first ... but with practice everything gets better
@@Sealover76 Aren’t people in all big cities across Europa less friendly and less personal than in smaller towns? I’ve been to Italy many times and honestly I don’t recall Italians being extremely friendly in Rome or in Milan. Not unfriendly either, but just kinda neutral. I don’t find people in Amsterdam unfriendly either (in general) but for sure (myself coming from the South of the country) I do notice Dutch people are more friendly outside of the Randstad, especially in the Southern provinces.
Generally people in capitals or in bigger cities are less friendly than people living in the country side.
@@OprechtLetterlijkBizar yes, sure. But in not referring to ppl being friendly in a generic way.... but more towards expats, so ppl living here.
If you don't speak Dutch, you will still be a tourist in Amsterdam because they recognize English-speaking people as tourists. If I go to America and continue to speak Dutch, I won't get anywhere in between, even though they try to be nice to me.
😮 If you are a native speaker of the English language, many Dutch don't mind. I know some of them not speaking Dutch after 25 years. Sometimes married with a Dutch partner. I really don't care. I've family in quite a few different countries, as well as in Northern Italy. They are often born in these different countries. I don't see the problem. Can't you adapt? Go back to your home country. I know people who couldn't integrate in Australia with a lot of homesickness. It can be the man or the wife.
I think switching to English is just impatience. The communication is more efficient when we both speak English. Time is money!!
Please.. You’re joking 😂
I am Dutch and always found the three tier guests at weddings unpleasant. As with many Dutch things it boils doen to money. On the one hand the couple wants to include everybody, and not offend anybody by excluding them, on the other hand they don't want to put themselves into debt for a one day celebration. So the different levels of guest are a compromise.
Very interesting to hear that you as a Dutch are not a big fan of that separation as well. Makes a lot of sense that money is a key factor for this.
I am Dutch, and i got to say this was outright painfull to watch. I don't mind ismf you talk about my people and culture, but it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about with most of this. Family is important to most of us, but we live our own lives too, you said it yourself, its a cultureof less of, i dont need to call my family everyday to care about them. I saw in the comments that at least one of you speak dutch, appreciate the effort, but yea, fitting in without speaking it is hard. Also Amsterdam does not represent the Netherlands as a whole, check out the more rural east of brabant, that will open you mind. We may not be be very open, but that is just our culture, its who we are.
if you wanna speak in dutch, just ask us. In my experience its that we speak English so well that we assume its eazier that way, just be blunt and keep speaking dutch, and tell us to speak dutch.
P.s. i am a but of an outlier from the norm, so not all may apply to other dutchies.
I used to work with Daniela she is an absolute diamond
What a coincidence!! Yes, she's a real sweetheart.
if you know that people are enjoying dinner at 6... why call them at that time..
they have no time to chat cuz their food is getting cold..
if you tell a Dutchie I want to learn the language please speak Dutch they will and most likely bluntly correct your pronunciations and grammar mistakes.. [how else are you gonna learn ;)] but it's true that we switch to another language really fast and it's not helping to learn the Dutch language .But we mostly do it to make you feel more comfortable in the conversation.
but if I were to live in Italy and not be fluent in it after 25 years what would Italians say about me...
Except they wouldn't speak English to you , because many only speak Italian
@chrisdeschepper7038 Exactly. Especially those from Napels....considered extra special stupid and scum by Italians themselves, as pointed out to me by my 2 Italian co-workers. They both wanted me to talk to those before they found out they were Italian and had to deal with them.
And I don't have time learning you Dutch, there are more people than you....NEXT!!!!
Had a customer just yesterday, I was talking to different people at the same time.....in Dutch, German, English. This customer asked what languages I spoke and I said Dutch, English easily, German, can manage a bit in French and then I can curse you and talk (dirty) to the ladies in some 4 other languages Arabic/Moroccan/Surinam/Spanish....he was a bit amazed by what he saw. 🤣
What these ladies seem to forget is the fact that many Dutch families live on a strict budget. Wages are so tight, and taxes are so high that any impact of eating outdoors or going for drinks, particularly paying for anybody else, ultimately drives a family into a financial corner. In The Netherlands the Dutch are there to be ripped off by the government (ao to support the EU and in particular Italy) in countries like Italy the government is ripped off by the Italians. Lack of money causes social isolation and for the Dutch the ripping off has been going on for decades. In case we do have some savings to go on holidays, we are always calculating and controlling the expenses simply because we have to. If we go to Italy and see how lavishly the Italians live, we are amazed but still admire. Bringing home such lavishness is completely unaffordable. These ladies are fully aware of all of this but are just being nasty.
Indeed, Dutch people working in the Netherlands have to pay much higher income taxes then foreign people working in the Netherlands.
When in Rome do as the Romans, right ? 😂
Amazing, Dutch stay Dutch and Italians stay Italians.
When I listen to them , they don’t speak Dutch. They don’t even try to.
Would I invite them with this attitude? No stay in your bubble ladies. Maybe the world comes to you.
Something about other cities in the randstad too.
I will first do the series in other European countries, and then I would like to come back to Rotterdam or Den Haag.
I recognise these ladies observations and criticisms. So if they don’t like living in A.dam why do they stay here. Curious lack of self criticism and insight. By the way, the cliches are astounding. Try going and you’ll soon find out how exclusive Italians can be: no family, then forget it.
I also roll my eyes at 50cent Tikkies, but perhaps it's because I'm from Limburg.
The part about the Dutch not really letting you integrate by rejecting your efforts to speak the language is true across the country because I live on the other side of the country and I deal with the exact same issue. With the rest of the video I don’t have enough experience because I only lived here for less than 2 years.
zeker wel....dat klopt
OMG, this is so true, LoL 😂
Nothing wrong what they say,we Dutch just love blunt.
No extra drama,straight to the point.
I called my mom every day and nothing means more to me than my family and friends!!! I think they are having a little party dissing the Dutch 😠
There are no more Amsterdammers in Amsterdam.
Why are they still living in the Netherlands and that for so many years if they don't like it...at least it sounds to me they don't like it...fear enough bit everyone is free to leave!
Oh, you mean" ga lekker terug naar je eigen land ?"kind of thing?
Oh ok... I believe I made my point
thats such a narrow minded reply. You seriously thi[k like this? First of all, I want to clarify I am not a masochist who likes to live in a place that makes her miserable. I am not miserable, I do not feel miserable, I am a happy person who enjoyes her life in a country that gave her a lot but at the same time, I see the downsides of it. If I could turn back the time... yes, i'd probably would tell myself to stay put, not to leave Italy, but damn... when you are 20 that's now how you think.. You are curious, eager to learn, experience new things, meet new ppl. So my adventure in this country... and I have to honetly admist, I did not feel at home at all, so I DID make a decision to leave. I told myself " one year, and then go back". Then I met someone, we fell in love , and my romantic side wanted to believe that LIFE had brought me here to give me this gift..... god I was wrong!! ahahah!!! Jokes aside, we started a family iut 15 years later divorced. You know... shit happens in life. So, do you see where I am heading? How can you say to a mother: oh well, you dont like it here? Well... nobody is holdig you so goodbye toodeloo. Leave your kids behind or take them with you and divide them from their father". Things are not as simple after all, eh? This is called life. Decisions are made which draw consequences. Hence you learn how to deal with things you dislike while enjoying the things that this country does offer. On the long term yes, I think my life decisions of 18 years ago will forever have consequences for me . Even If I decide to move back to my country ( ooooh finally , one ungrateful immigrant less in your country) I would be away from my kids. As we say in italian " mogli e buoi dei paesi tuoi" . I learned it the hard way. But that's how life makes you stronger, wiser.
@claudiaitalia6484 it sounded all so negative to me! Me...I came home (the Netherlands) after living abroad in several countries) and discovered how beautiful the Dutch people and the country is. This opinion stems of course after living and experience in 3 different countries! And yes I have 2 children I had to leave behind so I can relate to that! Thing is ...not one language is "ugly" it's unique in its own way. All different and interesting. So is every culture and yes also the Netherlands have their own culture and like every country some you find odd but hey that's the beauty of it all. Isn't it?
In all the countries I lived in I had to learn the language it was up to me how much I wanted it! If they started to talk English to me ( world language) I would ask them to talk their native language and using hands and feet you soon new what the conversation was about.
It's you who has to make the first step in every country in order to be heard and seen so you can integrate and feel more at home. I say "more" because your native country will always be your true "home".
I have learned a lot living abroad and I am sure so have you but try and see your advantages of having had the opportunity to go into this adventure., because that's what it is. A big ...can be beautiful adventure!
It's all up to you to make something of it and make the decision to see things from a different angle.
Wishing you good luck for the future
( Dutch people say these things only when they mean it!)
Well, under EU law (Article 45 TFEU), she has the right to live in the Netherlands as long as she wants and express her opinions regardless of what you might think.
Granting these rights to other EU citizens isn't optional but a strict requirement.
It's real funny to see them bitterly complain about things they don't like, while of course saying they are oh so happy.....typical behaviour these days, like posting all the happy shite on facebook....HEY LOOK AT US BEING OH SO HAPPY. 🤣🤣🤣
They should have f-ed off to Italy long ago. But ok, now we can laugh at them, so there's that. 😆
"She's been living in the Netherlands for 25 years but doesnt speak the language. In 25 years time she also wasnt able to make any friends over there.
Lady, this seems like a YOU problem.
The girl clearly stated that she speaks Dutch both in the video and in the comments. Therefore, there are only three possible scenarios here:
1) Serious hearing problems.
2) Serious elementary comprehension problems.
3) Frustration caused by listening to these truths leads to writing comments that clumsily try to divert attention from the main theme: apathy and emotional deficit in most Dutch people.
It seems obvious - and it's surprising that I have to explain it - that for understandable editorial reasons, this interview (like many others conducted by UA-camr around the world) was conducted in a language understandable to a wide audience, namely English.
Speaking of the use of English in the Netherlands, I have noticed that many Dutch people have no problem using this language when there is money to be made. Indeed, in those cases, English is more than welcome ("algemene bankrekening en spaarrekening" often swell thanks to this practice).
So, I fail to see why there should be so much scandal over an interview conducted in English. I wonder, perhaps the use of English is bothersome only when it is used outside the workplace and especially when it is used to expose to a wide audience the imperfections that the Dutch try to hide within their own national borders?
Or worse, is it perhaps about preserving the deceptive advertising image that encourages people to reach the Netherlands portrayed as a nation full of "open-minded" Dutch people, happily multicultural and immersed in colorful flower scenarios, always ready to socialize with everyone?
I look forward with great interest to your response on this matter.
G.
@@gregorjcocco Im afraid im not as interested in this topic as you are. But I'll say this: if I remember correctly the reporter asked the lady on the left blond if she spoke the language and she answered no. she also continued that she doesnt have any real dutch friends. Her friend back her up by saying "she's real friendly though".
So my thought process was: if she didnt learn the language obviously she will have difficulty making dutch friends.
I dunno what prompted you to make this lonwinded message, fyi i didnt read it. If i was wrong initially then just ignore it, as a smart person would do.
Dear@@thempror8915 , I hope you will forgive me if, amidst the flood of comments addressing the dark-haired girl and urging her to learn Dutch (as we've already noted, this girl knows very well), I misunderstood her message as yet another attempt to divert attention from the entirely justified criticism raised by the two interviewees.
Please try to understand that this can happen, especially when managing numerous messages from individuals who seem to do everything but assimilate and digest the reality that sets them apart.
I wish you a pleasant evening.
G.
@@gregorjcocco🎉 standing ovation 😊
@@Sealover76 🤗
The underlying cultural difference here is that the Dutch take more control of their lives. Family is important but they make a few good friends that are like family, so not by fate but by choice. That's not something you can do with all the people you hang out with and like. What we call friends are best friends forever.
To maintain all those best friendships, family relations and acquantences, friends as they are called in English, the Dutch plan it. Again, if you just let that happen to you by friends being spontaneous, you can do a lot less of that. You actually end up being less social. Only with my true friends there is room for spontaneity. Since many expats don't learn the language they won't become true friends but remain in the plannable acquaintences category. Their view on Dutch planning is distorted because of that, exaggerated.
Same with the language, they are basically complaining that they weren't forced to learn Dutch. Being able to speak the language had to happen to them, using the Dutch for practice while not having made a proper effort to learn it by themselves.
With a wedding people invite a lot of their acquantainces, the more the merryer. I like to being skipped for the dinner and having to sit next to some grandma or uncle. Usually I have friends/acquainteces in common with bride or groom so nice to meet up again and have dinner somewhere together. Really much more fun and after that to the party. Because it's normal not to get invited it doesn't feel like an insult at all. You know whether you are a best friend, an inner circle friend or not. If you are you'll sit between grandma and annoying uncle and make entertaining conversation, it is suffering and you best friend who gets married knows you are suffering, but that's what best friends do for eachother when one of them gets married.
Thanks fot these explanations. About the weddings, it makes a lot of sense if you are used to the tradition. For a foreigner, it can still be a cultural shock I guess.
@@TheMovementHub Yes, but cultural shock is what you chose to have by migrating. The idea that a different menu at the McDonalds is all the cultural shock you get to handle is wrong.
There is categories indeed, but all people categorize when family is distincted from friends, and close family from more distant or less close relatives. The Dutch simply have another category of friends, friends for life often, they believe to be important and valuable enough to elevate above all the people they have friendly relations with.
Of course, cultural shocks are inevitable, and that is something that you need to expect when moving to a new country. I agree with you.
Thank you for your insights and for the opportunity to analyze together the cultural peculiarities that often emerge in discussions about Dutch society. I was particularly struck by your observation regarding the illusion of total control that sometimes seems to characterize various Dutch attitudes.
Let's start with the issue of control. You mentioned that the Dutch often boast about having greater control over their lives compared to other nations. However, this raises significant questions. Greater control compared to whom? The Germans, the Americans, the Italians? The comparison is inevitable, and often we realize that the presumed omnipotence in planning everything proves to be futile when it brutally clashes with reality, as we all witnessed during the COVID-19 pandemic.
In light of that event, we saw the Dutch go through a series of phases:
1) Hilarity : (towards nations promoting protection and restriction),
2) Denial: (who could forget the Dutch health institution literally stating, "COVID will NEVER arrive in the Netherlands" using the word "NEVER") and finally, an acceptance phase of the pandemic.
3) Acceptance : (which was quite satisfying for me personally) decreed the futility of the "omnipotent" agenda, through which (even today, poor deluded souls) people believe they can plan everything. A glaring example of how the illusion of control can lead to misguided and harmful beliefs.
Indeed, the subsequent acceptance of reality has once again demonstrated that no agenda, however "omnipotent" it may seem, can guarantee the certainty of unexpected events (which, by their nature, are called "unexpected" for precisely this reason).
Regarding the importance of family and friendships, I must say that many of the observations made could apply to any culture worldwide. Human relationships are complex. And precisely because of this complexity, they elude attempts at classification and planning. If you plan a human relationship mathematically, it becomes inhuman. Simple.
And then, alas, you fall (disastrously) on a phrase:
"Those we call friends are best friends forever."
Negative. There is no "forever" unless you are some sort of deity, and even then, we don't know. Especially not for interpersonal relationships fraught with uncertainties and unexpected situations.
And you continue with: "To maintain all those best friendships, family relationships, and acquaintances, the Dutch plan it." Please explain to me. Because from your phrase, I understand something like: "If I plan in advance to meet someone, does this denote that I hold this person in special regard"?
Then you say:
"Since many expatriates do not learn the language, they will not become true friends, but will remain in the category of plan-able acquaintances."
I don't know if this is true for the entire nation, but I can tell you that for Amsterdam, the condition of "true friendship" simply because an individual speaks grammatically correct Dutch is entirely unattainable. If you have any examples or testimonials to offer, please do, as I would very much like to be proven wrong on this point.
Regarding the marriage you mentioned, I would like you to explain to me what is so annoying about an uncle or an old aunt. Do they not get drunk on beer and throw glasses in the air? Is that it?
I look forward to continuing this enlightening dialogue.
G.
@@gregorjcocco I am Dutch and live in Germany, and the Germans always say to me they find the Dutch so relaxed and not so over-organised as the Germans. 😉
Brave finalmente . La pensare come me😂
interesting video! i'm sure that depending on the country you come from, having your unique mentality, you perceive the people of the country you moved to in a more positive, negative or neutral way. i must say though that i find the lady with blond hair pretty rude and lacking a bit of self-reflection. she makes fun of the dutch language and says it's too difficult (try to learn arabic or chinese...!) to learn. then she makes dutch people responsible/guilty of her not having been able to learn dutch in more than 20 years because they always have been talking back in english. i think it's pretty ignorant not to speak the language of the country after so many years and if that lady had had enough of strong will and determination to learn dutch she would have been fluent in it. it sounds like she's just been making excuses to cover her own laziness. and i guess, if you live more than 20 years in the netherlands, it can't be such a bad country to live in...right? btw i'm not dutch and don't live there.
I think Dutch is beautiful.. and she is very rude
We pay our taxes!
Niet ons soort mensen ...
😂😂😂jullie denken dat je alles vanzelf in de schoot krijgt geworpen,nieuwsflas VOOR NIKS GAAT DE ZON OP
Tja.. Misschien is dit concept aan mijn aandacht ontsnapt tijdens het bekijken van de video. Toch was ik zeer oplettend. Daarom vraag ik U: «Kunt U me precies aanwijzen waar gezegd wordt dat men verwacht dat alles vanzelf in de schoot valt»? Dank U wel voor uw antwoord, want gezien de zekerheid waarmee U deze opmerking hebt geschreven, zult U me zeker kunnen vertellen waar U deze zin hebt gehoord of iets dat U deed vermoeden dat U deze verklaring hebt geschreven.
Aangezien we op een redelijke en objectieve manier redeneren, vraag ik U, als je toch wilt reageren, dit te doen met zinvolle argumenten, en niet met typische «geijkte uitdrukkingen» van een onwetend volkje of mensen met een middelmatige of analfabete achtergrond.
G.
Post Scriptum (Naschrift):
Als U het er niet mee eens bent, mag U ook meteen oprotten. Nog een keer bedankt.
Amsterdam is like the Texas of The Netherlands. Don't confuse the two.
Of course, Amsterdam is not representative of the Netherlands. Different regions, different life and mentality
“Texas” is quite a conservative US state. Amsterdam is probably the most progressive city in the Netherlands…
You live in The Netherlands and don't speak Dutch you're screwed! I'll speak english with you for 5-10 minutes it's over. I got things to do. Comparing the Italian economy with the Dutch? Italy has never been something and will never be something. Name a worldwidely known Italian company. It's kind of Argentina.
not sure your reply is serious or a joke.. anyway, I am gonna reply it, just for the sake of it : The Italian economy is the eighth largest in the world and third largest in the European Union ( worldwide The Netherland does not even make it in the top 10). And I am sorry you have never heard of Ferrari, Prada, Armani, valentino, moschino etc. For more info please follow this link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_Italian_companies
And if anything, argentina is kind of italy, given that Italians moved there. Not the other way around. Oh my God,,, lange leven de onwetenheid
@@Sealover76
Claudia, dealing with superficial and clumsy responses is like trying to teach music to someone who can't hear. It's a frustrating and disarming experience. However, I would prefer to believe that individuals like @qualitytraders5333 simply don't understand rather than feigning disinterest.
The response provided by them reflects a total lack of intellectual integrity and a clear detachment from reality. It's a sad reflection of how widespread the illusion of being the best is, even when understanding and honesty are completely lacking. These individuals seem to ignore their own history, origins, and life goals, settling instead for daily apathy.
It's important not to be discouraged by such interactions. Keep seeking and sharing knowledge with those who truly appreciate the value of meaningful and in-depth conversation.
G.
(poscritto. È ammirevole la tua schiettezza. Spesso da queste parti si «riempino la bocca» con concetti come "essere diretti" e altre menzogne annesse. Tu hai dimostrato e dimostri cosa significa in realtà parlare in modo diretto. E a te va il mio plauso)/
Italië produceert bijna alles. Van gereedschappen en machines tot eindproducten. Heel Nederland draait om lege hoofdkwartieren en ASML.
Ferrari, Olivetti, Campari, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Benetton, Cinzano, Lamborghini, Baretta (poef poef), Maserati, Prada, Ray-Ban, San Pellegrino, Versace, Vespa, Zanussi, Alitalia, Armani, Gucci, Indesit, Lambretta, Lancia, Nutella, UniCredit, etc, etc, etc. etc. etc.
Volgens mij ben jij niet de slimste thuis.
Goede lijst maar Nutella is een merk, Ferrero is het bedrijf waarvan Nutella eigendom is.
This are all bullishit ! Lol
Literally this is all about the same stupid stereotypes about Holland, they are not even true. Not true that Dutch are not close to the family, Not True that they dont help to learn the Language ( There are free dutch course from the Government) not true that they are distant, everybody has an agenda and plans cause we work and we are busy. Most of the things you said are not true and the blonde woman is been here for 15 years and speaks no dutch it's funny enough. I'm also Italian and I am so done to listen this stories, if you don't like the language, the culture, the people, just go back and stop spread stereotypes
Ciao
I have known my friend since 1981, we have shared happy times and sad times, we have memories that go back over 40 years.
A new contact can not catch up.
How can you integrate when we don't let you ?
If your expectation is that I'll see you as my best mate, then I need to disappoint you.
I got 1 friend, 19 family members and 30 contacts. I can add you as a contact, but to have that grow into friends, that takes time.
If there is a click, we'll spend time together and a friendship can grow from that.
If no click, you stay in the contact-zone and eventually disappear from my life.
The fix for us Dutch switching to English when you open your mouth with broken Dutch : "Sorry, Ik versta geen Engels"
BOOM SOLVED, all Dutch will speak Dutch to you, slowly.
Nice insights and advice
Amesterdammers are strange AF cant argue that but after 20 years these 2 have no clue