Bloody! Fun VBR, thanks. Welcome to your new FLGS. I don't think the Menchit A2's are undercosted (or not by much), but this is only the third time I've seen them used. Mine are en route, so hopefully I'll get to use them in a few weeks and try them out. Thors, too. I'm not a fan of 1,000 points to play myself, but this was fun to watch. Thanks again!
It seems that there are two camps - people who think the Menchit A1 is properly costed and the Menchit A2 is too cheap, and people who think that the Menchit A1 was terrible, and the Menchit A2 is appropriately costed. Would it be safe to say that there is at least a consensus that the gap in quality between the units is more than 5 points?
+Cameron Blume - Probably; whether there's a consensus on that question, dunno. Then the problem becomes, How much do you raise the A2 and still make it attractive?, and/or How much do you drop the A1 before it becomes too cheap, and is there even a number low enough to be practical to do that, or is the A2 just so much better (because it's multi-role) that the A1 will still rarely be taken? I don't think you'd ever take a squad of A1's and a squad of A2's in the same list, but you could take a single A1 with one or more other Type-1 Standard choices and a squad of A2's....If you're not taking a squad of A2's then you're wasting that valuable Support slot, and at 1,500 points is 3 flamers on the field inefficient after a certain number of turns? Lots of things to consider. I think we'll see A2's at Invasion, the questions will be, how many people will take them, and how many of those end up on the top tables? And that's just the start of the data-gathering needed...
Damn fine battle report, sir. And color me jealous of the game store - all my local stores are the size of a shoebox, and dead empty to boot. Excellently painted mini's as well.
Yeah. The way I see it, the long-range bombardment units, and the units that are mostly immune to anti-tank fire (such as the Medusa), are things that a traditional mix of units are not able to deal with. You will need to start designing your list with solutions for those types of threats.
I think it's fine at the moment. The risk is that if you add too many "rock paper scissors" elements into the game, it becomes impossible to create a list that is able to handle any situation. Once you reach that point, you can encounter games where the result is decided at the list creation step before you actually play the game (40k is notorious for this).
Like for example if I take a list that is nothing but "rock" units (like lots of medusas, or similar units that are basically immune to anti-tank fire), a list without specialized weapons to kill these units becomes useless. There are a couple of different vectors for doing this now: - AT-immune units (medusas, freeriders, requires flamers or area weapons) - Gunship overload (requires lots of anti-air) - Long range artillery (requires deep threats) I think it's currently possible to combat all three of these in the context of a 1500 point list, but if the designers add a couple more of these things will get bad.
+Cameron Blume -- I think within the context of a single game it could a little one-sided, which probably suggests a bit of list tailoring, at least to the mission, than some people do now. However, within the context of a 3 or 5-game tournament, I think if you bring too many "rocks" you're not going to do very well in 2/3 of the missions...
Scott, who has the best tournament record of any Dropzone player in the US, thinks that the normal Menchit is amazing after the 9" range buff, and the Menchit A2 is "meh" ... so go figure. I trust his judgement.
Thx for the "timely" VBR Sirs. Nice "infinity gate",+1.
Bloody! Fun VBR, thanks. Welcome to your new FLGS. I don't think the Menchit A2's are undercosted (or not by much), but this is only the third time I've seen them used. Mine are en route, so hopefully I'll get to use them in a few weeks and try them out. Thors, too. I'm not a fan of 1,000 points to play myself, but this was fun to watch. Thanks again!
It seems that there are two camps - people who think the Menchit A1 is properly costed and the Menchit A2 is too cheap, and people who think that the Menchit A1 was terrible, and the Menchit A2 is appropriately costed.
Would it be safe to say that there is at least a consensus that the gap in quality between the units is more than 5 points?
+Cameron Blume - Probably; whether there's a consensus on that question, dunno.
Then the problem becomes, How much do you raise the A2 and still make it attractive?, and/or How much do you drop the A1 before it becomes too cheap, and is there even a number low enough to be practical to do that, or is the A2 just so much better (because it's multi-role) that the A1 will still rarely be taken? I don't think you'd ever take a squad of A1's and a squad of A2's in the same list, but you could take a single A1 with one or more other Type-1 Standard choices and a squad of A2's....If you're not taking a squad of A2's then you're wasting that valuable Support slot, and at 1,500 points is 3 flamers on the field inefficient after a certain number of turns?
Lots of things to consider. I think we'll see A2's at Invasion, the questions will be, how many people will take them, and how many of those end up on the top tables? And that's just the start of the data-gathering needed...
Damn fine battle report, sir. And color me jealous of the game store - all my local stores are the size of a shoebox, and dead empty to boot.
Excellently painted mini's as well.
Great analysis after the game too. It'll be interesting to see how the meta might evolve. Area templates and deep threats, huh? Very interesting.
Yeah. The way I see it, the long-range bombardment units, and the units that are mostly immune to anti-tank fire (such as the Medusa), are things that a traditional mix of units are not able to deal with. You will need to start designing your list with solutions for those types of threats.
It's probably good for the game to mix gameplay up.
I think it's fine at the moment. The risk is that if you add too many "rock paper scissors" elements into the game, it becomes impossible to create a list that is able to handle any situation. Once you reach that point, you can encounter games where the result is decided at the list creation step before you actually play the game (40k is notorious for this).
Like for example if I take a list that is nothing but "rock" units (like lots of medusas, or similar units that are basically immune to anti-tank fire), a list without specialized weapons to kill these units becomes useless. There are a couple of different vectors for doing this now:
- AT-immune units (medusas, freeriders, requires flamers or area weapons)
- Gunship overload (requires lots of anti-air)
- Long range artillery (requires deep threats)
I think it's currently possible to combat all three of these in the context of a 1500 point list, but if the designers add a couple more of these things will get bad.
+Cameron Blume -- I think within the context of a single game it could a little one-sided, which probably suggests a bit of list tailoring, at least to the mission, than some people do now. However, within the context of a 3 or 5-game tournament, I think if you bring too many "rocks" you're not going to do very well in 2/3 of the missions...
Great to see an other of you batreps. Nice game looked like fun
New battle reports. Whoo hoo! :)
Just can't get excited about a battle report when it has unpainted minis.
That store and setup though is amazing.
Kirk Bushell well the good news is: I'm actually painting right this second. The bad news is that I'm painting Kings of War models =D.
I'll get there!
hehehe
You need Rocket Tech's... so much better then gun tech's.
Is it more that normal menchit are not good?
Scott, who has the best tournament record of any Dropzone player in the US, thinks that the normal Menchit is amazing after the 9" range buff, and the Menchit A2 is "meh" ... so go figure. I trust his judgement.