THE EXHAUST FAN SOUNDS LIKE A HELICOPTER
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- So they called saying there was a loud vibration from the exhaust fan and all the screws were falling out, there wasn't much I could do for it but in the end it all worked out.
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00:00 SPONSOR CARD
00:10 THAT IS NOT NORMAL
03:32 WHEEL INSPECTION
06:32 REPLACEMENT INFO
09:45 I'M BACK
12:00 ROOF CLEANUP
13:25 1 2 3 PLEASE DON'T BLOW UP
16:03 HEAVY DUTY HINGE INSTALL
19:53 CLOSING WORDS
![ОРБАН приехал к ПУТИНУ и "отчитался" о поездке в Киев 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_0ukDovOWq8/mqdefault.jpg)
Amazing that these places dont have equipment inventories! Where I work, we have thousands of bldgs,and I can look up any bldg and see what kind of toilet paper dispensers they have, lists belts,filters etc! All models,serial #'s,year installed,life expectancy! Not a bad program to have!
Sounds very useful, What software(s) do you use?
Alot of the places I work use Asset tag numbers. Which is mainly government facilities and hospitals.
it's expensive. most companies these days keeps their inventory to a minimum
Retired, when I worked in a repair shop, we had to sell out the inventory of parts toward the end of the quarter. Otherwise, we had to pay taxes on the inventory that was left over.
i can tell you have never owned or probably worked at a restaurant.
Sort of hilarious that fan manufacturers expect a VFD to survive in that environment. If that lasts two years I'd be shocked.
Aside from damaging the fans, that grease build up is a hell of a fire hazard! I hope their insurance company hasn't found your videos!
When that shit-hole restaurant burns to the ground it won't be from a grease fire im the hood...
The presence of grease in the kitchen exhaust airflow is normal. These fans are grease rated. They are designed to collect the grease in a trap. The fans are designed with aluminum for a reason so that if the impeller contacts the body no sparks will be produced to ignite the grease.
The presence of grease is not remarkable in any way this is what these things do… They are supposed to be power washed every 3months per NFPA96 fire code.
You may already be aware of this, but I figured I'd mention...
I was always taught to keep the disconnect before the drive to prevent accidental damage to the drive, like mounting everything locally in a fan cooled cabinet. However, if you have to put a disconnect between the drive and the motor, I think you have to reprogram the drive stop configuration to freewheel(instead of the typical ramp) when the dry contact opens, so the drive doesn't try to ramp the motor down. I don't know if every drive manufacturer is the same on this though.
Is there actually a reason for using a controlled stop configuration (ramping or braking) anyway? Coasting to a stop is the most energy efficient (marginal) way and it puts less "stress" on the motor.
Depending on the inertia of the load you're driving (not much for a fan), ramping or braking to a stop could actually cause your VFD to trip if it cannot dissipate the energy produced by the motor now acting as generator. That's why VFD's typically get a little warmer when ramping or braking. If your VFD has a brake chopper, you could add a braking resistor to help dissipate that energy.
@@ericmulder5789 sometimes if you let the motor coast to a stop if will over voltage the drive. You need a long controlled ramp down to allow the energy to dissipate or add resistor coils for braking.
" I think you have to reprogram the drive stop configuration to freewheel(instead of the typical ramp) when the dry contact opens, so the drive doesn't try to ramp the motor down."
It seems logical that a VFD has a way of detecting the presence of a motor and simply turns itself off when it nolonger detects one. If there is no motor connected anymore that's means either a mechanic is being a bit of a daredevil or the motor has fallen off the roof, both cases are handled best by powering down immediately.
But I have seen some shady sh*t in these HVAC videos so I would nbot be surprised if there are techs who put a disconnect switch between the VFD and the motor and actually use it while the VFD is powered. People keep finding new and exciting ways to get near-death experiences...
You are absolutely correct....quality control on new equipment and even replacement parts is absolute junk and non existing nowadays. Thats a shame....brand new exhaust and hardware is falling off it......seems like they are doing quality control from a zoom or meet up video call using 3G.....yup looks good from here....send it out. Lol
13:25 - I could even accept to have the VFD on the roof in a separate enclosure, but inside the fan isn't really the best location considering all the grease.
The grease will help ensure you have to by new a vfd regularly hence more replacement $$$ LOL
You mentioned that bigger motor! Alot of my units that always ran from 7.5 hp to 10 hp fans have all gone to 15 hp! Its insane to see a motor that big doing the same amount of work!
It's not because you need the full power of the motor, but the motor bearings have to be able to support the additional load and stress from the wheel.
Ahhh. I have experience with lots of fans even bigger than that and they were often only 0.5-1hp. But they were all either direct drive or had a bearing block mounted on the front that took any load.
Really saves on the wire size when they're 100-300ft away.
Not restaurant related.
Maybe the motor will last longer.
Your Videos are always so detailed and easy to understand.
I do enjoy and learn from them
quite a lot. Please keep them coming and i keep watching. Blessings!
This video makes me want to watch grease cleaning videos
Agreed, would be interesting to see
Great and professional info. as usual. Thanks Chris.
Your videos are very informative and entertaining.
Greece maintenance is no joke. I worked in a restaurant where it was bought out by a franchise and the new owner decided to save a buck and cut back on greece maintenance, which resulted in a roof fire.
That caused the restaurant to be out of commission for almost 1 year.
Great video my dude! I do commercial pm's. I have come behind hood cleaners, and have found the EF hinged completely open 🤦♂️. As soon as I arrived on site, and immediately was asked buy the restaurant manager "Why is there water coming down through my hoods!" It had rained earlier that day. Good lord!
I work in the Coachella valley as a residential technician/installer. There's something about those 100° + days that I miss during the fall winter time. Call me crazy haha.
Hey - US people are learning about direct driven fans finally. No more belt issues, but maybe VFD issues... we'll see.
belts are cheaper than VFDs... so having the VFD on the roof is stupid
Here in Germany we use no belts, we use no VFDs... just direct driven fans with the right motor, which runs directly from the grid via a motor starter. And guess what... we're still cooking.
Another great video bro keep up the hard work
I used to be a fan cleaner and the time line of when a exhaust system gets cleaned depends on a few things: they type of cooking equipment, the type of food, the capacity on the establishment, the season length, the common weather conditions, and the biggest one of them all is the City Fire Pervention Bylaws
How do you clean those? Brushes and solvent? Looks like a nightmare
@@volvo09 degreaser and a hot steam pressure washer
You ever thought about adding Cleaning Services & Roofing Services & Electrician Services to your company?
Great video chris
Chris I remember cleaning blower wheels like youmention dirt keeps them balanced like that for while. Then I clean the wheel it's out of balance I'm like huh? But that's what happens like you mentioned like of maintenance. Stay safe thanks.
Surprisingly the "max" for those VFD's are actually 80hz. The discrepancy between the motor rating on the name plate of the unit and the name plate on the motor is the VFD differential. The motor has 2 sets of amp ratings the standard use amp ratings and the on a VFD amp ratings. Usually the on a VFD amp is slightly lower.
Also it's highly recommended not to bypass the VFD on a DD motor. They overheat really quickly and permanently ruin the windings within days. At least with CaptiveAire DD and Belt driven are still available BUT if they try to do a direct replacement (quicker turnaround) using the existing information from the job number it will almost always throw out a DD motor where if you go from the ground up (hoods 101 and ducts) you can pic a belt driven option. They could have also asked for the VFD shipped loose instead of unit mount but once "you'll need an electrician" gets said they hear $$$ and choose the cheaper option of unit mount plug and play.
only 80hz ? most of the one i deal with are 300-500hz max.
a lot of the motors now have warnings on them not to direct connect to mains. "inverter only".
@@tweake7175 they can go to 500 but are program locked to a max of 80 for all CaptiveAire fans. You have to get into the program and change a few parameters to be able to go higher but very few fans aren't already at max rpm before getting near 80 which is why they have the hard lockout max of 80
@@Terayonjf thx for the explanation 👍
Lemme get a couple of those swamp coolers lol! My garage gets hot in the summer
Imagine that a company fixing their hoods. Meanwhile I keep having to bring up to several managers that half of my hood is broken and has been for 6 months
Ozone breaks down the rubber on the belts. It's also very rough on tires as well.
You are completely right. That VFD has a 100% chance of failure soon, not even a possibility, but a guarantee in those kind of conditions. I'm sure the VFD manufacturer would not sign off on that sort of placement. The many large capacitors in there cannot take that sort of heat.
The extra .8A is possibly from the VFD.
Maybe, but at 240V, that's almost 200W of apparent power. (Probably more since it's 3 phase) It makes me wonder if VFD really makes things efficient.
Very good video 👍
Yup as a cleaner who does them. More you clean it the better.I like see cleaned at least 3 or 4 times a week.yup I totally agree with you. What a good video
Good staff Chris
Greece one
But that is restaurant work that for sure
5:53 SHEAVE dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
Customer: Does anyone remember a Helipad on the roof? Where's the Helicopter?
Awesome video and job 👍👍😊😊👌🙌🍀🇭🇷
Does a VFD even make sense in this application? It seems like these fans will be set to a constant speed and left alone. Having a soft start is nice though..
Thanks for the video and I agree that vfd needs to be inside. BTW: How did you handle the grease drip pan? Without that pan the grease will flow on the roof. The outlet was on the side where the support arms are.
The grease will flow out and seal the roof leaks and feed the local fauna. Everybody wins 👌😀
when i ran a restaurant we did our fans once a month, ducts were done every 6 months and AC units were done once a week. Part of kitchen closing was vents over the grill every night and fryers were also done every night plus grease cleaning twice a day. I hate a dirty kitchen and i would rather pay for cleaning than equipment replacement since not only cleaner but cheaper. I just wish other restaurants did these things too.
I would happily dine at any restaurant you ran, sir. Nowadays more than ever before, eateries are filthy, not maintained nor have employees that take pride in their trade.
yup I've seen restaurants where they don't even touch the vent hoods for 6 months at a time and when they do they cant clean them well enough to be considered clean in my book,, also like to add that all filters should be staiinless steel no exceptions , galvanized has to go
Phase rotation does not matter when using VFDs. (Although, it is a good praction to have the rotation matching wire color or terminal numbers).
It does matter between the VFD and the motor. That was factory on this one, but it doesn't hurt to check motor rotation when starting up the fan for the first time.
@@stormeagle28 Bah. If it's spinning the wrong way just change it in the vfd settings.
Phase between breaker and VFD doesn't matter but it matters from VFD to Motor cause it can run backwards. Luckily with those VFDs it's just a matter of switching directions on the control pad and not swapping legs
@@Terayonjf But sometimes swapping two legs at the terminals is much faster done than studying the manual on a specific VFD how to save the change of direction so that it isn't lost after a power outage.
@@stormeagle28 they're all autosave on those VFDs that come with CaptiveAire stuff. All parameters stay unless manually reset, manually changed or swapping for a new VFD. It also has a direction button on the face of the VFD that unless it's attached to a modbus system will flip the rotation and show which direction it's currently in on the screen with a dot near the words forward or reverse. If attached to a modbus it's a little more effort otherwise it's press the rotation button when it's not actively running
I love ypur videos!
dream job
does that model of vfd have internal temp sensing? if so you can read off what the temp is and compare that to the manufactures specs. thats a good way to show a customer the work is required.
Many VFD units can run on single phase, which saves money on supplied power that's single phase. These are especially nice for machine shop equipment that may be such that it's not possible to run on single phase.
IM gonna say you should not mount the WP box on it's back. Always vertical, Vertical will not hold water, and believe me, water will go past the 2 6/32 screws, and later when the shitty foam gasket rots away it will migrate around the cover edges. Right now it is a bathtub, aside from the feed conduit that will drain water into it.
To be fair it never rains there, like never.
You mentioned that it was a chain store. Do they have in-house maintenance that could keep a spare motor since they have several stores? This way on a Friday night, you can call in-house maintenance and they can get a new spare at their convenience. Being a chain, I can see them ordering this same setup many times. By having in-house hold onto it, it spreads the cost of keeping the spare between several locations.
Wow, you can really see the vibration from far away
Greaae burns nice too.
We use those Lenze drives in hot cabinets without a lot of issues. Not outside though.
However, the drive is derated when it gets hot. Close to 50% so it will need oversized. Also, that dirt and grease, it needs installed in a nema 12 box (boxes with seals). The issue then would be getting rid of drive heat.
nice hinges
didn't need a new pulley on that double belted fan , it looked fine , its one of those types you can adjust with a set screw.. just needed adjustment. but I'm not there so I could be wrong, the evaporative coolers were old make up air units, that's what they used to use until they realized that extra humidity in a humid kithchen was a bad idea,, that VFD motor was very pretty but it won't last in thst heat and that grease , A basic 1 hp DAyton motor is the way to go .
This fan sounds like my 1999 Honda 300EX idling lol
Best part about the loose nuts and screws is that if you look at the fan's data plate, it has a QC Passed sticker below it.
I’m guessing captive aire uses the service factor for their rating of amp draw of the fan motor. Did the motor have a service factor on the nameplate?
The motors have 2 different sets of Amp draws. Standard use amp ratings and VFD amp ratings. They always put the standard use amp rating on the unit tag even though the VFD rating is usually a hair lower. The motors have a SF on the name plate but that's never taken into account when setting up the system. They want it as close to the required CFM while staying below max recommended amps and max recommended rpm of the wheel.
I assume the bearings on the old fan were fine because they were getting greased regularly? 🤣
Not crazy about putting the VFD inside the fan. Heat, dust, grease... "Let's put an expensive part in an environment where it will fail prematurely, during a chip shortage." 👌
We don't have to worry about grease buildup one of our exhaust fans at work. I first noticed it wasn't working in October 2021, and here we are just about to enter November 2022, STILL hasn't even been looked at. Our ceiling tiles over the ovens are a beautiful golden brown. 🤮
I’ve always wondered why the a/c drains are piped over to a roof drain, or down through the building to a drain, on all these restaurants you work at. Up here in Canada they all just dump onto the roof near the unit.
water on a roof for prolong periods of time will find its way through said roof and with the added weight of the equipment its not long before you see some kind of symptoms or consequenses of water infiltration ,, in metal roofs for instance you start rusting out the frame joists , or in other instances mold takes hold and its a smelly mess, on more advanced cases it ruins the entire roof structure. I have personally seen all these scenerios ,,, so a $5 pvc pipe diverting the water onto a gutter is fairly good prevenatative insurance in my book
Seeing that poor VFD inside the motor compartment of that fan
Holy smokes, which person came up with idea?
That’s a setup for failure
Better be careful, or the exhaust fan just may fly away!
Or implode the restaurant like in the movie poltergeist.
The cable on the load side of a VFD has to be shielded and is limited in length according to the VFD, FYI.
Very niece vedio sir 😘🇮🇳
Can you show a comparison between the 'belt' motor and a direct drive motor? I always thought they are the same, except for the shaft dimensions. I think the supply houses shoud have them in stock..?
Is there a market for temporary replacement fans that can adapt to a variety of curbs and run at a variety of flow & velocity rates? AKA install while you try to procure replacements..?
captive aire is always a pain. idk if its who commissions it or the sparks who wire it up but im always finding them rotating backwards. and as far as the rating plate thats the service factor amp rating.
It’s ridiculous how poorly built and maintained these things seem to be! Anyway new to your videos and I love this stuff. Keep it up man and you just got yourself a new sub.
Well at least it was still attached and "functional" when you arrived. 🤪
Brother where you learn all of this?? I know the basics like electricity, changing belts, greasing bearings, but Id like to know more about the the vrv controls and exhaust hood controls
Is it possible the name plate amperage includes the VFD logic, etc ?
The "extra" .6 amps is probably for the VFD's power draw?
I do not miss restaurant work.
8:27 havent you check filter in kitchen make sure it not clogged up most likely filter can cause it go out of balance because it fighting for air
Hey Chris, a little more Apocalype Now? the horror, the horror,the horror. What going on with all the solar panels. A one dollar beer sound good to me. Love you buddy.
by the way, God was telling Jesus the powerball is up to 1 billion dollars this week.
The only way I can think of to get a fan to run when the motor fails late in the day/evening is to have those motors in stock. Which is not going to be cheap.
There is OBVIOUS play in the motor mount.
Motor mounts are repairable and replaceable, but at contractor hourly rates it doesn’t take much for the whole fan to get written off.
Silly question but is it feasible for the restaurant company to stock the direct drive parts in advance in a nearby warehouse or something so you could u pick it up when one goes bad? Is it just not economical to do that?
From the missing nuts, the mismatched VFD and motor maxima and the general jankiness of this fan, I assume they fail every few years.. crazy
2:31 I would not survive there 😱
Where do you order super hinges from? Allied and united here said they cant get them
During replacement of a roof ventilator which is so large he needs a crane Chris says “I’m not a big fan.”
If the winds are not abnormally high and it's still tearing the metal capping off, the installer isn't doing their job correctly...
If you're bothered by the flying metal, you might want to give Building Code Enforcement a call and let them know that the capping on that building may not have been installed according to Minimum Code Requirements...
Do all of the newer ones have a VFD?
I never saw a Lenze VFD fail in the last 3 decades, but mounted in this stupid area I am not sure how long even a Lenze may work until it begins to fail. Every VFD belongs in a closed cabinet away from all the greasy air or even better in a room inside the building with AC, in the basement or at least not hotter than 25°C in this room. This will make the VFDs last several decades if sized properly.
Off topic but a question. I follow a lot of tradesmen and small businesses channels. Were you the one given a shout out for sending a shirt to a Wisconsin concrete contractor Victory something, within the past week? Pretty cool if it was.
👍👍👍🔥🔥
Hi UK will you something called an inverter and power factor correction this cuts down the amount of power you actually use roughly 25% on a 3-phase machine you will save a lot of money
Watching this in a blizzard
I'm guessing the motor current rating of 6amps is at "230v" rating and the 208v rating is 6.6(rounded) is what captive air listed?
Relocation of the vfd is bad for the drive , farther away from motor is going to create large amounts of emf and losses especially with a high carrier frequency
grease has unbalanced the wheel and cleaning it will not help that much as the wheel is now out of true.
Having a vfd in the vent hood, super hot greasy spot... How long does that vfd last? I imagine not terribly long.
It sounds like my washing machine on a spin cycle!
So I’m not the only one who had problems with QC from captive air
Gotta wonder about the longevity of a drive mounted that way(it's back downward). Not very good for convection cooling flow. But, sure the fan company did it so it must be right???
Nah. Motors do not rely on passive convective cooling
@@Morberis Drives do. Lenze is very weak on documentation. No sane VFD Mfg. will show that you can mount them on a horizontal plane. That's a silly way to mount the thing.
@@nhzxboi I don't know why I read your first comment as bring about motors instead of drives. My bad
Yeah environmental rated drives are usually passively cooled. I agree, seems like a terrible spot for it. Either it's not getting any active air circulation and the passive is sub-optimal or it's getting covered in grease. I wonder how hot it gets in there in the middle of the day.
And yeah I have experience with lenze... Worst drives I've worked with. Absolutely backwards control over a network.
In corporate speak "preventative maintenance" is a bad word.
By the way, I like your podcast/social media, has the you tube corp sent a three million dollar roylty check? I would not worry about it. I guess it is going to be the matrix reloaded, but welcome to the USA.
by the way, God was telling Jesus the powerball is up to 1 billion dollars this week.
fucking hell what a view those mountains........................
When an exhaust fan comes on…what triggers a makeup air unit to run? And are fire alarms usually interlocked in those circuits. ?
But if you think of it as in energy efficiency how much energy efficient is running back-and-forth to the supply house when you could have an on the truck standard part that could be swapped. Saving time money and gas. Sure it might be more efficient but if the maintenance isn't more efficient as well....
Are there any chain driven fans? Don't chains last longer?
Chains are far more dangerous if they snap and can damage the fan/motor/housing all at once.
chain drive would be loud and have more vibration at speed.
chains require much more maintenance
Are there any exhaust fans that use the Venturi effect? So that the fan blades are not in the air stream themselves.
Not really because you then need another fan to get the Venturi effect going. There is no free lunch.
@@stormeagle28 you should only need a single fan for the Venturi effect, it uses the moving air from the fan to pull additional air from a separate source. I think it would be an interesting way to reduce the amount of cleaning necessary, but I'm guessing it would be much less efficient.
in a way these fans do the same thing , they pull the air out from the exhaust drive it up then down.and up again at which point it mixes with additional air. it's really the most efficient cost affective design possible, they tried many other types in the past but the experimenting with design phase has been over for decades,,
Get to the choppa!
A good friend of mine just finished HVAC school. What tool should I get him as a graduation gift (sub $100)? Looking for something that is helpful and most techs don't think about getting
A decent set of knee pads, a padded lid for a 5 gallon bucket (for use as a seat) and a good summer hat. All good quality of life needed 'tools' for a new journeyman or apprentice.
As long as it doesn't cost money..
I wonder why HVAC hasnt gone to serpentine belts like the auto world. Longer lasting, more surface area, and pulleys don't wear out like v-belts.
A little surprised that there is no cover for vfd
Vfds can vary in operating temperature. I have reused boards using same vfd model and have saved time on programming and down time. Powder coat oven in my case and vfd was for the recirculation fan.
I did program new board as well, took time getting parameters for that build with its bad display I couldn't pull info, but in the end I got them schematics, vfd parameters, and they have old original board incase of a dead vfd and no one can program it.
Need to steam clean the blades. Grease is like concrete on them.