These conversations are important to move the industry forward. It may not always produce new results, but definitely helps eliminate some potential problems, saying something out loud always produces better thought. Thanks.
Onirim and its siblings are one of my favorite examples of beauty and whimsy. Even the packaging, the way the box opens up and unfolds to reveal the tray tells a little story. It's gorgeous.
What a great take on this topic. Truly appreciate the insight into some of the why behind decisions that are made. Mitchell is a fantastic guest and I’m really looking forward to part 2!
I think it is important to have the goal of the game and the game end conditions early in the rulebook. There are some games (First Rat and Ovation come to mind) that there are so many interesting and rewarding actions in the game that you lose sight of the game end condition and the game goes on forever.
I've always poked fun at Point Salad's box size. The entire game fits perfectly in half of the box, which is split by a cardboard divider. I understand that it was most likely a standard box size that was easy to just re skin for the game.
That's a good observation! There definitely are cases where the graphic designer has a template for previous games and using it can reduce the chances of missing an important detail (and we have heard that people like when similar games line up cleanly on their shelf).
I love the way the components sit in Scythe and Expeditions. We were playing Stamp Swap yesterday and it was super hard to count my daughter's empty spaces on the mat. There is some kind of spacing issue and the stamps slide around a bit as you play. (We play on the kitchen table because we have a small place and have no room for a dedicated gaming table.) I think the grid boxes are slightly larger than the stamps. We both agreed after trying to make it work that it is a problem. We love the game though. I love how SM thinks about slight issues in their games. Again, with Stamp Swap, it is hard for me to use the score track because the scoring boxes are not uniform in size. It wouldn't have been an issue for me before I had vision processing problems but now that I do, every time I score I have to check it 2 times to make sure that I did it correctly. That might just be a me problem but I thought I would mention it in case it helps. Love the topics. Love the idea of small rule books and love video options on how to play. We had never played Gloomhaven before but we played through GH: JOTL and are super impressed at how this taught us the game. It gave us the flavour and got us ready to move on to the full games. I feel like is the same thing as in Apiary and also how we learned Scythe. We are still learning Scythe bit by bit. We are through everything but Fenris and the modular board. Love this type of learning and expansion building where it gets just a bit more difficult. Thank you for making these videos and having such great games. One more thing, Rolling Realms introduced so many new games to us. Thank you! Also, the new dice are cool. Love mixing them with the old dice.
I appreciate that feedback about Stamp Swap! You're right that the cells in the grid are just slightly too big (to account for small differences in cardboard size). That's interesting to hear about the score track--I hadn't thought of that!
CGE likes to have the 'some assembly required' dual layer player boards in their games, where you have to fold and place the glue dots. I've seen it at least in Starship Captains and Kutna Hora. I'd agree and say they're a great middle ground! Kutna Hora is also one of the first games to feature 're-wood'. Its recycled wood and binder, and its able to make really detailed models!
I find most plastic inserts more annoying than useful, primarily when trying to store/carry games vertically. Much prefer a simple cardboard trough or divider and some plastic baggies. I do love it when games use pretty /custom components though, makes the playing experience better and more memorable for me.
My comments: Packaging - You can't win. There are too many strong, conflicting beliefs on this topic. (And my own opinion changes with time.) Beauty - The dice sold you a copy of Euphoria to me. Custom dice are amazing, but I don't know that I would tell Garphill (for example) they should have put custom dice in their South Tigris games - the small dice with standard pips do the job very nicely. Best component of all time: Viticulture's glass beads. One component is 2 types of grapes and 4 types of wine. Talk about bang for your buck. Underappreciated chance for beauty: shape of game boards. I love the pentagonal boards of Viscounts of the West Kingdom and Tawantinsuyu, I love the rounded corners on the Tapestry board. These boards have a similar appeal to custom dice. Utility - As for dual-layered boards, I'm pretty sure the fan demand for them is 90% due to Scythe's popularity. So it's ironic you have had to resist doing them at times. Pendulum might benefit from them. I think the grippiness of the Tapestry boards works pretty well. I admit this was a major selling point for me of the Expeditions expansion, and also for a Terraforming Mars expansion kickstarter which offered them for that game. I'm a thrifty gamer, but dual-layer is probably the type of premium component I'm most willing to pay for. Onboarding - The variant provided in Inventors of the South Tigris for the first game was very clever and effective (play 3 rounds rather than 4 and use a goal card that gives you a sense of direction). Another good example is Terra Mystica, where they tell you which faction to use and where to place your starting dwellings for your first game - two impossible decisions for first-time players. Some rule books also provide strategy tips - why don't more games do that? Through the Ages also has a shortened hand-holding first game in the rule book. I also really appreciate a card or prominent back of the rule book description of the setup rules (e.g., 2/3/4p setup differences, buffs for non-first player, etc.). This is part 1? Hoping the next episode might include: 1) solo mode, 2) player aids (enough for each player), 3) hire professional writers for the rule book, 4) color blind friendly, 5) rules appendix with every card/tile explained (thank you Wingspan, Ark Nova) and every icon
I personally prefer less plastic in my boardgames, unless that plastic can justify itself through utility - it's kinda a climate guilt thing. So I was quite happy with all the plastic inside Scythe - the insert organised stuff well, and the plastic mechs and minis felt in proportion to their role in the game. But the Wingspan bird shop tray to me kinda feels flimsy/tacky and unnecessary (we can just have a bird shop row of cards on the table).
If you only play the base game, the tray is very nice for storage. Although, Yes, it isn't really needed on the table, and if you have a few or all expansions, it might not all fit in for storage.
@@jameystegmaier Hm. I approximatly have 300 Games. So I think the answer is yes. :-) But I can't remember one and I know I threw away lots of plastic inserts.
This makes sense for some games, one that comes to mind is Fit to Print. The insert doesn't allow you to store all the desks fully assembled inside the box. But they fit without the insert. Not really sure why they decided to even have one, considering it's also a very simple one.
These conversations are important to move the industry forward. It may not always produce new results, but definitely helps eliminate some potential problems, saying something out loud always produces better thought. Thanks.
Onirim and its siblings are one of my favorite examples of beauty and whimsy. Even the packaging, the way the box opens up and unfolds to reveal the tray tells a little story. It's gorgeous.
What a great take on this topic. Truly appreciate the insight into some of the why behind decisions that are made. Mitchell is a fantastic guest and I’m really looking forward to part 2!
I think it is important to have the goal of the game and the game end conditions early in the rulebook. There are some games (First Rat and Ovation come to mind) that there are so many interesting and rewarding actions in the game that you lose sight of the game end condition and the game goes on forever.
I've always poked fun at Point Salad's box size. The entire game fits perfectly in half of the box, which is split by a cardboard divider. I understand that it was most likely a standard box size that was easy to just re skin for the game.
That's a good observation! There definitely are cases where the graphic designer has a template for previous games and using it can reduce the chances of missing an important detail (and we have heard that people like when similar games line up cleanly on their shelf).
Jamey I *LOVED* this video! Very thought provoking!!! I shared it with my game group
Thank you! :)
Couldn't agree more with every one of these topics so far, can't wait to hear about the rest 💕
I love the way the components sit in Scythe and Expeditions. We were playing Stamp Swap yesterday and it was super hard to count my daughter's empty spaces on the mat. There is some kind of spacing issue and the stamps slide around a bit as you play. (We play on the kitchen table because we have a small place and have no room for a dedicated gaming table.) I think the grid boxes are slightly larger than the stamps. We both agreed after trying to make it work that it is a problem. We love the game though. I love how SM thinks about slight issues in their games. Again, with Stamp Swap, it is hard for me to use the score track because the scoring boxes are not uniform in size. It wouldn't have been an issue for me before I had vision processing problems but now that I do, every time I score I have to check it 2 times to make sure that I did it correctly. That might just be a me problem but I thought I would mention it in case it helps.
Love the topics. Love the idea of small rule books and love video options on how to play. We had never played Gloomhaven before but we played through GH: JOTL and are super impressed at how this taught us the game. It gave us the flavour and got us ready to move on to the full games. I feel like is the same thing as in Apiary and also how we learned Scythe. We are still learning Scythe bit by bit. We are through everything but Fenris and the modular board. Love this type of learning and expansion building where it gets just a bit more difficult.
Thank you for making these videos and having such great games. One more thing, Rolling Realms introduced so many new games to us. Thank you! Also, the new dice are cool. Love mixing them with the old dice.
I appreciate that feedback about Stamp Swap! You're right that the cells in the grid are just slightly too big (to account for small differences in cardboard size). That's interesting to hear about the score track--I hadn't thought of that!
CGE likes to have the 'some assembly required' dual layer player boards in their games, where you have to fold and place the glue dots. I've seen it at least in Starship Captains and Kutna Hora. I'd agree and say they're a great middle ground! Kutna Hora is also one of the first games to feature 're-wood'. Its recycled wood and binder, and its able to make really detailed models!
Thanks! We're looking into trying the CGE method of glueless dual-layered player mats.
I wish Space Base had dual layer boards. It's so easy to brush the cubes out of place.
I find most plastic inserts more annoying than useful, primarily when trying to store/carry games vertically. Much prefer a simple cardboard trough or divider and some plastic baggies. I do love it when games use pretty /custom components though, makes the playing experience better and more memorable for me.
My comments:
Packaging - You can't win. There are too many strong, conflicting beliefs on this topic. (And my own opinion changes with time.)
Beauty - The dice sold you a copy of Euphoria to me. Custom dice are amazing, but I don't know that I would tell Garphill (for example) they should have put custom dice in their South Tigris games - the small dice with standard pips do the job very nicely. Best component of all time: Viticulture's glass beads. One component is 2 types of grapes and 4 types of wine. Talk about bang for your buck. Underappreciated chance for beauty: shape of game boards. I love the pentagonal boards of Viscounts of the West Kingdom and Tawantinsuyu, I love the rounded corners on the Tapestry board. These boards have a similar appeal to custom dice.
Utility - As for dual-layered boards, I'm pretty sure the fan demand for them is 90% due to Scythe's popularity. So it's ironic you have had to resist doing them at times. Pendulum might benefit from them. I think the grippiness of the Tapestry boards works pretty well. I admit this was a major selling point for me of the Expeditions expansion, and also for a Terraforming Mars expansion kickstarter which offered them for that game. I'm a thrifty gamer, but dual-layer is probably the type of premium component I'm most willing to pay for.
Onboarding - The variant provided in Inventors of the South Tigris for the first game was very clever and effective (play 3 rounds rather than 4 and use a goal card that gives you a sense of direction). Another good example is Terra Mystica, where they tell you which faction to use and where to place your starting dwellings for your first game - two impossible decisions for first-time players. Some rule books also provide strategy tips - why don't more games do that? Through the Ages also has a shortened hand-holding first game in the rule book. I also really appreciate a card or prominent back of the rule book description of the setup rules (e.g., 2/3/4p setup differences, buffs for non-first player, etc.).
This is part 1? Hoping the next episode might include: 1) solo mode, 2) player aids (enough for each player), 3) hire professional writers for the rule book, 4) color blind friendly, 5) rules appendix with every card/tile explained (thank you Wingspan, Ark Nova) and every icon
I personally prefer less plastic in my boardgames, unless that plastic can justify itself through utility - it's kinda a climate guilt thing. So I was quite happy with all the plastic inside Scythe - the insert organised stuff well, and the plastic mechs and minis felt in proportion to their role in the game. But the Wingspan bird shop tray to me kinda feels flimsy/tacky and unnecessary (we can just have a bird shop row of cards on the table).
If you only play the base game, the tray is very nice for storage. Although, Yes, it isn't really needed on the table, and if you have a few or all expansions, it might not all fit in for storage.
I hate inserts. The first thing I throw away...
Is there any game in your collection that still has its original insert?
@@jameystegmaier Hm. I approximatly have 300 Games. So I think the answer is yes. :-) But I can't remember one and I know I threw away lots of plastic inserts.
This makes sense for some games, one that comes to mind is Fit to Print. The insert doesn't allow you to store all the desks fully assembled inside the box. But they fit without the insert. Not really sure why they decided to even have one, considering it's also a very simple one.