Great question. What you suggest was my first thought as well, since parallel 10ths between soprano and bass sound great! It is a good option and will sound good. However, when voice leading there are often trade-offs; for example, if you compare how "good" the soprano & bass sound compared to the soprano & alto (or any other combination of voices). If you go with the Bb in the soprano in the first chord, I agree that it sounds better between the soprano and bass than a G since you get harmony vs. the octave - it sounds more flowing and smooth. But, if you do that the soprano and alto are more jarring - still good but it feels different. At the end of the day, both are good but express something slightly different. I think what I wrote sounds more humble and intimate, and what you suggested (changing only one note) makes it sound exalted and grand. Ultimately, composers use music theory as craftsmanship for when inspiration runs out and they need to finish a piece. Or, it can also be used as inspiration or a toolbox of sounds to experiment and play around with. I hope this helped, Dr. B
At 11:44 you override the "leading-tone must resolve down" rule because of the parallel 10ths, but you also cause parallel 5ths (albeit a diminished and a perfect). If I had, for instance, parallel 5ths with both being perfect, would the parallel 10ths still cause the exception. As always, great lecture! Thank you very much!!
@@lewecusgame7598 well, there years after that comment I can most surely try say that every rule has exceptions. It makes no sense forbidding something without reasoning. Also, parallel fifths occur in Bach even, so maybe take it easy on your rules, eh?
There really isn't a "preferred" doubling for 1st inversion triads - you can double whatever creates the smoothest voice leading or interesting melodic line as long as you do NOT double the leading tone of the key. Some textbooks recommend you double the soprano in a 1st inversion triad and it does sound great, but it is optional. I hope that helps, Dr. B
at 19:36 you say "this is contrary motion, so we know that will never be a problem." but if it were contrary motion in P5s or P8vs, that would be a problem right? or am I missing something about what point you are trying to make at this point in the video? In lecture 18 you lay out rules for passing 64 chords (and other second inversion triads). At about 40:45 in this video, you voice lead a passing 64 chord with a "shape" that doesn't adhere to the pattern you said in lecture 18 would always be present. Is it not always the case that the melodic shapes you presented will be present in the passing (and others) 64 chords?
Haha, I might have made that comment but it would be as a joke after I knew you better. F- is such a clearer way to indicate minor so you keep doing what your doing! :)
Is what you're saying here that generally Ti likes to resolve to Do and Fa likes to resolve to Mi, or is this something specific to V7 chords in inversion?
This a much more complicated question than it seems at first. For a V7 chord those are definitely the tendency resolutions! "Generally" the above is also true but things can get complicated because context is so important. "Ti" does like to resolve to "do," especially if you are changing from a dominant harmony to something else. However, if you establish a descending scale you could have "ti" resolve to "la," ex. C - C/B - Am; this is also possible when going iii to vi. When composing a melody the implied harmony must be considered since "ti" is free to move elsewhere within a dominant harmony (V & viio). Hope that helps!
Great point and I agree. There are some videos where I do play the examples on the piano and I'm doing that much more in my recent videos, but I should have definitely done more in videos like this one. Thanks for the comment and suggestion! Sincerely, Dr. B
@@ChristopherBrellochs Hey you know what, I was watching this very late on my phone last night (I couldn't sleep), got 1/4 way through maybe and thought it was "just" theory and left my comment. I've come back to it today and you are going though and playing which helps. I jumped the gun! Your reply is very gracious but it was my mistake. Many thanks.
That's generally true of root-position chords, but not of inversions, where doubling is not only acceptable, but often demanded by voice-leading. So, where in this video do you see him double a third in a root-position I, IV, or V? Timestamp, please.
@@matthewscott7198 I have just rechecked the exercise and I read the score incorrectly. For some or other reason I read bar 3, beat 3, that the g was doubled. It wasn’t doubled so my mistake. However, primary triads: the third should not be doubled. Double the base note or the 5th but not the third.
Ganz tolle Videos! Vielen Dank!
For the 1st example I6 V34 I, why not play Bb in the soprano on I6, in order to have parallel 10ths with the bass ?
Great question. What you suggest was my first thought as well, since parallel 10ths between soprano and bass sound great! It is a good option and will sound good. However, when voice leading there are often trade-offs; for example, if you compare how "good" the soprano & bass sound compared to the soprano & alto (or any other combination of voices).
If you go with the Bb in the soprano in the first chord, I agree that it sounds better between the soprano and bass than a G since you get harmony vs. the octave - it sounds more flowing and smooth. But, if you do that the soprano and alto are more jarring - still good but it feels different.
At the end of the day, both are good but express something slightly different. I think what I wrote sounds more humble and intimate, and what you suggested (changing only one note) makes it sound exalted and grand.
Ultimately, composers use music theory as craftsmanship for when inspiration runs out and they need to finish a piece. Or, it can also be used as inspiration or a toolbox of sounds to experiment and play around with.
I hope this helped,
Dr. B
At 11:44 you override the "leading-tone must resolve down" rule because of the parallel 10ths, but you also cause parallel 5ths (albeit a diminished and a perfect). If I had, for instance, parallel 5ths with both being perfect, would the parallel 10ths still cause the exception.
As always, great lecture! Thank you very much!!
No. Parallel 5ths are never acceptable in voice-leading.
@@lewecusgame7598 well, there years after that comment I can most surely try say that every rule has exceptions. It makes no sense forbidding something without reasoning.
Also, parallel fifths occur in Bach even, so maybe take it easy on your rules, eh?
Thank you for these great lessons. Around 20:30 you double the third in a two6 chord. Is that preferred?
There really isn't a "preferred" doubling for 1st inversion triads - you can double whatever creates the smoothest voice leading or interesting melodic line as long as you do NOT double the leading tone of the key. Some textbooks recommend you double the soprano in a 1st inversion triad and it does sound great, but it is optional.
I hope that helps,
Dr. B
@@ChristopherBrellochs Thank you!
at 19:36 you say "this is contrary motion, so we know that will never be a problem." but if it were contrary motion in P5s or P8vs, that would be a problem right? or am I missing something about what point you are trying to make at this point in the video?
In lecture 18 you lay out rules for passing 64 chords (and other second inversion triads). At about 40:45 in this video, you voice lead a passing 64 chord with a "shape" that doesn't adhere to the pattern you said in lecture 18 would always be present. Is it not always the case that the melodic shapes you presented will be present in the passing (and others) 64 chords?
44:32 - doesn't going to F in tenor result in an overlap with the bass?
No, it doesn't. If he went to Eb then it would be overlap, but going to F is fine, it isn't overlap.
No
In my first diatonic harmony class I wrote an F minor as "F-" and the professor asked if I was giving myself a grade :(
She was a bit stuffy I'd say
Haha, I might have made that comment but it would be as a joke after I knew you better. F- is such a clearer way to indicate minor so you keep doing what your doing! :)
Is what you're saying here that generally Ti likes to resolve to Do and Fa likes to resolve to Mi, or is this something specific to V7 chords in inversion?
This a much more complicated question than it seems at first. For a V7 chord those are definitely the tendency resolutions!
"Generally" the above is also true but things can get complicated because context is so important. "Ti" does like to resolve to "do," especially if you are changing from a dominant harmony to something else. However, if you establish a descending scale you could have "ti" resolve to "la," ex. C - C/B - Am; this is also possible when going iii to vi.
When composing a melody the implied harmony must be considered since "ti" is free to move elsewhere within a dominant harmony (V & viio).
Hope that helps!
This is nice but it is a shame you don't illustrate what the different progressions sound like on a piano. At the end of the day that is what matters.
Great point and I agree. There are some videos where I do play the examples on the piano and I'm doing that much more in my recent videos, but I should have definitely done more in videos like this one.
Thanks for the comment and suggestion!
Sincerely,
Dr. B
@@ChristopherBrellochs Hey you know what, I was watching this very late on my phone last night (I couldn't sleep), got 1/4 way through maybe and thought it was "just" theory and left my comment. I've come back to it today and you are going though and playing which helps. I jumped the gun! Your reply is very gracious but it was my mistake. Many thanks.
mille gratze
I am sorry but you do not double the third of chords I IV and V. This is really not accepted.
That's generally true of root-position chords, but not of inversions, where doubling is not only acceptable, but often demanded by voice-leading.
So, where in this video do you see him double a third in a root-position I, IV, or V? Timestamp, please.
@@matthewscott7198 I have just rechecked the exercise and I read the score incorrectly. For some or other reason I read bar 3, beat 3, that the g was doubled. It wasn’t doubled so my mistake. However, primary triads: the third should not be doubled. Double the base note or the 5th but not the third.
@@matthewscott7198 even in a 1st inversion of chords I, IV or V the third should not be doubled.