The first 5 minutes of this video gave me hope. Then that hope was ruthlessly assassinated. This sounds like some of the most predatory pay-to-win tactics in any ftp game, where only mega whales will be on top. If this is not changed by release it will be destroyed by critics. I’m ok w the first two monetizarion methods. The battle pass and the limited “packages”. Similar to games like clash Royale . However, everything after that goes off the deep end.
We're learning some details about potential changes coming. Cross your fingers. I'm thinking they have fixed these problems. Video when we know concrete details.
@@echohack let’s hope. I know they won’t get a penny from me w this setup. If they cut back I could see myself spending between $5 and $60 a month. I think they will lose a LOT of players like me if they don’t cut out the unlimited power gains for insane $. Push come to shove I’ll wait for Diablo 4 while watching this game die in the west while it makes $$$$ off the bats**t crazy Koreans/Chinese billionaires that will spend $100,000 per character on this game.
The one thing I learned from the discussions the internet was having around Lost Ark"s monetization is that people do not want to feel like their progression is being undermined by those who pay. But you lifestyle, financial beliefs, income, and available time will determine how much you pay. Plus whether you're having fun with the game is greatly going to effect if you swipe or not. For those who might not have a lot of money to spend but enjoy the gameplay loop of Lost Ark there is a path to progress through the endgame. And you can gain a decent gear score/item level to be highly successful in doing the hardest content without whaling. But I "need" to have the best gear, be on top of the leaderboard, etc. The feeling of being able to obtain these things without excessively paying is the issue some people have. They just don't want to do great damage, but they want to do the best damage.
This game was not made for the western audiance so even if the western critics will be harsh it still can be a great success in it's planned environment - mostly in China.
@@gaborangeli3d I don’t doubt it. It will make a ton of money , tarnish blizzards rep even more, but they won’t care cause it’s all about the $$$. Such is life.
I don’t mind paying for skins and decorations or subscription or battlepass or buy the game or dlc’s to enjoy playing and support devs, but when im forced to pay so i can progress or compete heeeelll naaaw, i wanna play against skillful players not their wallets, sad that i was hyped for years and this is the shiit they giving us,after seeing all of this pay2win mechanics i no longer blame the people who lashed out on the announcement day blizzard deserved that, i guess need to wait again for POE mobile since they are anti pay2win and care about their player base. Blizzard ain’t the same no more they fell off+ratio+L. Sorry for the paragraph im just disappointed, and you are a great commenter and analyzer
Good video! Lets hope the devs also watched your video. Or respect player feedback. If they dont change anything this means they dont care at all. Also to add. If I pay for season pass (a monthly bill) i shoudnt be even be able to buy other stuff. This means i got a subscription + need to buy seperate packs this and that etc etc. No thank you. You got a season pass? Then there shoudnt be anything else. Only extra cosmetics would be ok.
I'm a long time Diablo player. Grant it this new game has new features that we haven't seen in any other Diablo game yet. Such features as the immortal system of course and then pvp. These are systems that I definitely would be interested in participating in but it's really not at the end of the day a deal breaker for me. I resigned a long time ago as a casual player that I would never be able to be competitive in any of the Diablo games. So before paid win became a reality in the Diablo franchise I still decided that instead of trying to be competitive I just simply ran my season solo and decided to just see how good I could do with a certain class or classes and any particular season. That's the same thing that I plan on doing with this new franchise. I'm not going to try to hope to compete with the whales and or even the heavier players that log in multiple hours a day. Instead I'm just going to choose a class that I want to play have fun playing it and see how far I can get and how good of gear that I can put together and how many Paragon or how high in the Paragon chart that I can go.
@@echohack And then they spend a few $ on a limited time intro pack because why not? then another, and why not, 1 more. This is how players turn into spenders. I would rather just buy the mobile game completely for a set price then end up paying 5x that price with microtransactions that are forced upon me on login.
@@lollipopwaraxe6032 ill just enjoy the game. i might spend money i might not but i certainly wont start crying if other people want to spend money as it wont affect my game at all
Seems P2W, hard pass for me, I would rather buy the game for 30-50 bucks and let everything be available in game with grind and RNG as long as they remove any buying of anything, of course they can still have a shop for costumes and pets, i would pay extra for things like that as a way to support the devs but at the current model it's a P2W mobile game so i'll pass...
I would love it if blizzard made us pay 13.99$ a month for the game. Any extra payments solely for cosmetics, instead of copying the other mobile games out there…
@@MAKIUSO Monetization is going to totally destroy Diablo immortals I’m calling it right now f2p guys and even low spenders are only going to have fun for x of months before they hit that massive pay wall and it becomes blatantly obvious that the pay to win mechanics are over shadowing everything else
U see it's a mobile game, and the highest market for this game they have is in Asia. 13.99$ per month is like a fortune in Asia. This won't work. But they could have just tried to monetise by selling skins. But they will get huge buck by the starting months nd then slowly the casual players will stop playing and then the whales will stop playing at some point as well. Thus the game dies. Because the amount of whales they want their game to be playing is proportional to the amount of casual players playing the game.
This video made me sad. I want come to diablo from state of survival, which is very p2w game. And from what i saw, some ppl have no problem to pay rodiculous ammouths of money for game purchases. I have no faith if it would happen in diablo too. Also, worst scenraio is, if this kind of ppl gather in one guild/alliance and ruin experinece for everyone else in server. O rly though diablo pay system would be only about skins and battle pass.... So sad.
It's possible. I'm optimistic that the P2W elements won't have the significant impact you're imagining. No doubt there will be some impact. But during Beta the best players were ultimately determined by their skills. I think you're right to be skeptical, and I am too. It's up to Blizzard to prove that this is really a real Diablo game and not a cashgrab.
No matter how good your ideas are for better gameplay, the only question you have to ask is "Will this negatively impact Blizzard's profits?" and if the answer is "yes" then they're not gonna do it. Just like every cash-grab mobile "free to play" game, they will jam in as many ways to spend real money as possible at the expense of better gameplay. Because at the end of the day, a slightly better game won't attract enough additional players to outweigh the money they can suck out of the players with a mediocre experience.
Don't waste you money on this. They didn't even bother to change the sound of gold being dropped, from Diablo3. also the game is made for harvesting money, i played for 1 hour and already got 4 push notifications about something they want me to spend money on.. it's rng and gambling. eu should ban this type of lootbox and overly priced packages. Literally 135€ for a gem pack.i dare to say, that nothing and absolutely nothing in that game is worth 135€ let alone 30€ as a decent PC game would cost
Once you allow Money to add Power in game, it's already P2W... Most gamers prefer F2P so it will be an equal competitive environment... Unless you just play-for-fun type that doesn't bother so much about being competitive... If Blizzard needs money to stay in business, sell some cosmetics stuff instead (i.e. Skins, Banners, Armor Dye)... What makes Diablo fun to play is party hunt and get those legendary loots by chance... Most likely players will skip this and expect D4 provides a better community...
Question about pvp, with legendary gems being massively p2w how does it play into immortals vs shadows? can shadows raid enough of the immortals vault to even the pvp? or what has been your experience?
Shadows absolutely dominate the Vault. In fact it's not even fair to the Immortals as of the Beta. They need to swing the balance back in the other direction.
Um, they could just make a good game that doesn't need recurring purchases. I mean warcraft 3 is still bought and played to this day. Even tho Diablo 3 was disliked, it still sold millions of copies. Elden ring recently came out when you published this video. And it is a way better game then this and needs no cash shop.
None of those games are MMOs or free to play games. They're very good games, some of the best. But you can't expect a game to be free to play and not have some kind of cash shop. The server costs alone would shut the game down instantly. There was an amazing game called Moonrise made by a friend a mine. It was a next generation pokemon game. it was absolutely incredible. They launched it into early access. Their cash shop failed and the game was shut down just months later. Diablo 3 was supposed to get a second expansion. Those plans were killed because they killed the RMA and it was considered a failure. Sometimes it's not about how good the game is. You can have the best game in the world and die to server costs. As a developer, you're in a business to make money. It costs money to build new content. If you don't have a viable business model, your game dies.
Sadly they changed stuff since the beta.. there are advertisments now for example for the bundles when you beat a dungeon the first time. And because of the gated level system you can play as long as you want but the game punishes you for grinding more. The game is still good as long as you aren't competitive in any way as you won't care that other people are much stronger by just spending money.
Completely agree about the "you won, here's a bill" thing. Coming from Raid (saw you on Darth's long VOD) where there's a meme "You earned it, now claim it! $99" packs when you hit max level. Those always felt slimy. Hopefully Blizzard hears your feedback.
Ok...I've been super hyped for this game. I've been watching every video on it. With the monetization practice of the game, I'm wondering now if I will even play it. Maybe I won't download it at launch and I will just see if the game is as sleazy as it sounds.
Specifically, Legendary Gems need some work. Otherwise I actually think DI's monetization is pretty good. No stamina / energy system, no clicking on ads, etc.
@@echohack thanks for the update I saw your comment about them changing monetization after I wrote the comment. I really hope they change this. If my experience in mobile gaming has taught me anything, it's that people spending money is absolutely necessary but developers can go to far and allow monetization practices to ruin the game. I really hope they don't ruin this. I've been waiting for this game for a long time.
At first I was thinking yeah sure I will pay the $5 a month or even the $15 a month for the super subscription thing to support the game. By the end of the video Im not even sure I want to waste my time even playing the game now. It will be a 100% pay to win game where regular players, even ones that pay for subs, will be nothing but food and stepping stones for the whales. I dont think I will even play now. Too bad, I was looking forward to it but meh, I can live without it. If come launch this hasnt been changed I wont even play...
I was The Immortal as F2P so I think your assessment is a bit too heavy handed. Subscribe and stay tuned because we also think additional information is coming about nerfs to this system soon.
If this is truly how the game launches, it will completely ruin the experience and they will lose a majority of their player base. I fail to understand why companies do this, Riot has grown to be one of the largest gaming companies and has yet to introduce any sort of P2W aspect to their games. They should have kept $$ for cosmetics and left the rest of the game F2P. I'm tired of games being made for Whales.
It’s nice to hear someone creating videos that is actually intelligent and thinks through the entirety of a topic when it comes to gaming. Most steamers who never worked a day in their life approach the topic with no nuance at all, and a lack of understanding from the business side. Nice job on the analysis, and hope they listen.
Sounds just as bad as mfr I’ll give the game a fair shot but I’m not spending 1 penny not even $10 for that awakening gem or whatever it’s called off of principal
As much as I have always loved and played any Diablo title, p2w has been the red line for me in any game I thought about playing. Having the chance to gain resources either by playing or buying (with a strong limit) would be fine with me. Finally, as a competitive player for the last 20+ years, I want to battle players, not their wallets.
Thanks for the feedback! I'm literally reading off my phone and it's as close to the camera as possible. I don't have a teleprompter... yet! Waiting until I can get one for the channel.
It's all pay2win. Especially PvP. As soon as you are able to spend money to gain certain items (LVL 5) it is pay to win. Look at pubgm 0 pay2win and a huge profit. It's all in the cosmetics. But DI want to choose the pay2win path
Don't you think black-and-white thinking like this hides the more important discussion about aligning business incentives with monetization? A game with no good monetization options and no way to fund future development is a dead game too ya know? (See Diablo 3)
@@echohack to be honest the way they do it now is very black and white thinking. They go for pay2win from the beginning. for me they should start with selling only cosmetics.. if that does not thing enough revenue they can start selling gems and slowly go to pay2win. They would have then from both worlds. Now try to do it they other way around: start with pay2win and have people paid for items. Now you cannot go disable/delete that to try out just to survive on cosmetics. Pubg mobile showed it is possible. The fact that they didn't even gave it a try is a missed opportunity and we will now never find out "what if" they tried without pay2win. Of course this is just my opinion.
I think any game that’s free will have some aspects that you can pay for. It seems Diablo immortal isn’t riddled with p2w aspects. I’ll be getting the battle pass because I find that the most valuable
Completely agree with the legendary crests. They need to be capped or tuned. ORDR needs to be removed at the minimum. 100% agree with the whole video and i also gave feedback during CBT. Lets hope they listen to the community and it doesn't die within the first 2 months
100k$ for max resonance equip/gems? Holy cow. Why even bother with that Pay2Win Bullshit when you can play a dozen other Action RPGs with better gameplay, graphics and no pay2win?
Game is out now...and I'm not a competitive player...but a long time (20 years) player. As pointed out, the return of my favorite PvP will now always have a ?...did this person just buy this? And there will *always* be people who will do so. But nope, won't be playing this or giving the descendents of Greed money to enjoy the game on a level field.
On my server there's a dude on personal challenge 39 and it's just been 3 days of the game so.... Imagine the amount of money this dude dumped that's gonna make blizzard go crazy to milk whales. Purchases should be time saving not horrible unbreakable paywalls
maybe we should start calling these games P2? instead of P2W. having said that... Lost ark is pay to win and I think I will feel that way about diablo immortal as well but oh well thats how games are these days. I hod hoped that Diablo Immortal would maybe just have a $60 buy in to play it and then skip all this crap but I think they are saying to lost ark, "hold my beer."
I am not averse to monthly subs, as long as it provides basic slower ways to get the same thing the whales want on day 1. Cosmetics, empower, etc. If they expect me to get a monthly pass AND a purchase cosmetics and empowerments, etc. I will be stopping play pretty quickly.
I rather love games I purchase for money. These are often more fun and balanced. If pay to win is too extreme you loose non paying. As result you won t feel any imporovement as you only play against other players who do also pay to win as the prays are gine. And then ppl asks them selves why should I buy. I dont become superman. While losing they leave also the game And the rest leave as no one plays the game. What I d like to illustrate is that pay to win is risky. I also know games where you purchase hings that you grind less but with hard cap or design elements. Ppl will support good games But pay to win wil only be supported by egoists.
interestig, infinte stackable power in small icremets mean the diference between a f2p adn someone who spends like 100$ a month is miniscule, but some millonaire who spends thousands a month can be infinitely more strong, feels as if the intent is to keep power relative for 99% of players but actually exclusively lean on whales for most funding lol,
In Diablo Immortal, there are a lot of people and like me who don't want to spend on the Dawning Echo item that is only obtained through microtransactions. Which I don't like, but I'm fine if that is there, but can make a feature or something for people who just want to play or hardcore players who don't to spend money to get through other means. Hopefully the next update you can add a way to get it, but it is harder to get material to balance the game for elders rifts and as well for PVP, which is also essential for that extra bit of damage percentage increase. Please add where we can get without having to spend money, but be harder to get like other items that are hard to get as well. If you are going to add an item or a feature that requires money to increase the combat rating of character also add a way to get it, but adjust where it's harder or easier depending on how much it increases combat rating. Please fix the balance once the next update comes out for Diablo Immortal. Hope the feature where we can this paid to win items for free through other means for free.
I don't know what to say honestly, I feel so disappointed, twice in the same week, because I also tried the torchlight beta and they have a gacha pet system? Wtf it's happening? Just because it's a mobile game it needs to be p2w?
Dude, the whole intro made me wanna skip your video... pointlessly beating around the bush... too much repetition. Just giving you a point where to look and try to improve. The rest is ok. Good try though. So the game will be pay to win. Pass to this game is not going to be that balanced. The idea you had, is that the devs will know that people want more from some content... they can check the logs of player activities for that... weak argument. The bundles are again pay to win, and the rest of the discussion you gave is more or less not correct on that topic. How they can earn from this game - Buy to play, Check GW2 cosmetics, donations, etc. (ofc this does not mean to make only one way to gain cosmetics, and only the paid ones look cool)
This game is tuned around people like me that have mental iilness and poor self control, my brain is highly tuned towards rewards and they exploit it.I think its sick and bad to exploit mentally ill people for money
having a script is all well and good but when you read from it 95% of the time the video becomes very impersonal and frustrating to watch.. when we cant have "eyecontact" with you its like talking to someone that never looks you in the eyes.. Makes the video hard to watch. I recomend that you either improvise more in the future or learn the script by heart so you dont need to read from it constantly. Just have a handfull of footnotes to keep you on the right track.
Nice video! I think you nailed it even tho I havn't seen the game yet. but. wow, 2 huge points there, paying for gear and that endgame bill.. Mephisto be damned!!! they better smarten up!!! also, i'd rather pay 20/30$ for a lifetime pass, but ... ya, 5$ per month should be PLENTY to developers to kept incentivizing that addition. all comes down to the gear grind... and it sounds like they messed it up... with, worse, money.
The gear grind in this game is absolutely sacred and safe. You can never ever buy gear. What's (still) questionable is Legendary Gems. We still don't know all the changes that will land here before launch.
You can make a completely free game for all and offer a lot of cosmetic items to earn momey. The point is choosing to earn a FAIR amount or a monstruos amount . Diablo Immortal has been created to be Pay to Win in order to makr them really rich. Pratically, you have to pay A LOT just to have the chance to do the same thing you do with Diablo 3. For me, this game is already dead.
@@echohack Not being damaged directly doesn't mean no damage at all. Let the pay to win formula win, means that we're another step closer to the complete destruction of the videogame scene. And we're talking about Diablo, not a stupid mobile game. Like the entire city is burning but my house not, so gg let's relax on the couch.
Not correct. CR (Combat Rating) is capped at a certain percentage in many PvP game modes. You definitely can win with enough skill and grinding as F2P, though pound-for-pound they might have an advantage. I was beating people with 10K+ spent with $60 spend.
You had very valid points, well thought out and presented thanks for that. I don't mind some pay to win but thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars just to play end game and be competitive sounds terrible.
The game's FOV is unlikely to be different on PC. The aspect ratio of your monitor effects the FOV in a big way though, so an ultrawide might help if you don't like the regular viewing distance
If you think it will still be p2w with his proposed changes then I'm not sure what definition you use for p2w, but I guess you see all games as p2w, or at least you should.
Great vid! Gamers went from having zero new options to a bunch: Di, Lost Ark, Undecember, and Elden Rings to name a few. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The best, and the most fair system will be the model for the next. And most likely have a longer shelf life = fewer harpoons and more fishing nets! Thanks echohack.
If you want to win Immortal in this game (Literally high warlord / top spot on the server) then you're playing politics. You can still win without P2W if you're willing to organize a group of absolute blasters for the cycle of strife. Going for the top spot does have some P2W associated with it though. That's just facts. But it's not as pervasive as you make it sound
In lost ark you can be very competitive in pve (as long you dont seek to be top in leaderboards) just buying standard bundles (lost ark pass/crystaline aura each month and that's it). Moreover pvp is 0 pay to win. Maybe diablo Immortal is fun to grind but from that described legendary crests and gem system, it is an "infinite" P2W system. If it is maintained in release, no point to even try the game for my part because I know for sure that whatever your skill you CANNOT beat a whale in diablo immortal in pvp when in lost ark, there is 0 monetization for competitive pvp. Moreover even in pve whales need real skill in high pve content in lost ark with one shot mechanics
The only game I've seen do F2P and not have P2W ethically is Path of Exile. You can legit if you wanted to play the entire game completely free (that being said you WILL want stash tabs, which are not nearly as expensive as anything listed here).
I already know why Diablo is coming to mobile, and F2P as well. It's because what they're going for is for the mobile players who are dolphins and whales. A lot of mobile games I have played are heavily monetized by in-game items that powers up the characters.
There's some early hints that there are changes (P2W nerfs) coming. Exactly what those changes are, are hard to pin down right now, but I'll make a video when we can.
@@echohack Thanks! Another question: if you obtain vault loot (triple stat leggies), after a new cycle of strife do you get to keep vault loot forever or do you lose it?
Echohack, good job on the video. By far you are the most well spoken, thoughtful, logical and insightful UA-cam mobile gamer I’ve seen yet. Your ideas are great and you obviously know what you are talking about. Keep the great content coming. As for everyone else, if you want positive changes within a Diablo Inmortal game, blow up this channel with likes and subs so it gains traction and attention from Blizzard. This way they can make changes to the game that will influence its quality and replayability for the better.
The game is fun I know I've been playing Diablo 1 Diablo 2 Diablo 3and all their expansion from PC until I have my own gaming laptop PS3 and PS4.the problem with others players are they want an easy way to play because they want all the legendary item gems and all the best perks in the game in the easiest way without paying that's why they said pay to win instead of playing all the way until you find all the best legendary items where's the fun of that if you want all power in an early way how do you expect to appreciate and Love the game.
@@FalconStrikeGames the psx version unlike the pc version had an extra level of difficulty, I think it was the nightmare level and it was quite a challenge.... And not many people played up to that level, since the psx version put to limited the power of the console and some levels the lag was unbearable, apart from the load times that were very long between levels, but I personally loved playing it..
@@clarocomoelagua1 i didnt play it thoroughly because of the fact that i picked up that version while i was playing D2. I kind of used it as my diablo escape during my cottage get away. Either way, it was still a good game!
Blizzard should allow all of these gems and P2W features available buy doing a once a day or once a week dungeon/rift but you can buy a CD scroll from the store so you can do the daily/weekly missions/rift/dungeon.
LOL If you need to have this much word play around the subject then i guess that YES, it is pay to Win 😂. Don’t try to confuse people with elaborate words into something that is not an argument. There are many people who have played the game and confirmed that it is. As soon as the money invested alteres your stats it is 100% pay to win. As soon as a game puts you into a paywall STOP in order to proceed, it is P2W. They shouldn’t have done this for the Main quest line.
1. Battlepass: more expensive than players paid for full fledged MMO's without having full access to everything/ much much longer grind (3./4./5.) 2. Bundles: time saving for money, prices (60USD) are nothing compared to other mobile games. 3. Legendary Crests/ Legendary Gems: so this is where the actual P2W is happening similar in value to other cashgrab mobile games where players spend thousands of dollars. 4. Legacy of the Horadrim, Runes etc.: not as powerful as legendary Crests/ gems yet unlimited so again, player can spend hundreds of dollars 5. Awakening: considering to Legendary Crests/ other unlimited empowerments, this is still P2W but with a ceiling level 6. Market: can one trade items among their own characters or goes this as well via the market? I wonder what they thought when looking at Path of Exile. Were they thinking that... while that game is successfull and has a playerbase... we really need to implement 1/2/3/4 and 5 to bleed players dry. I cannot hear the "but they need to get paid" argument any longer. I've heard it for decades and the result is that it is now considered "acceptable" for mobile games to allow players spending tens of thousands and more of dollars in their games. This has nothing to do with paying salaries but profit, profit and more profit. Considering that the above system exist in Beta and the historical adjustments between Beta and final games.. all the above will remain for the foreseeable future. Why should Blizzard adjust anything when the mobile whales and kraken enter their game and spend thousands of dollars on day one just to appear on some leaderboards. Therefore... free to play/ battlepass players... enjoy the story. Don't bother trying to get into raids or.. lol... pvp because, your rating SUCKS. Content creators... see you in a few months when they create their first F2P accounts because they've covered what they can cover, invested their thousands of dollars to do pvp and join raids and provide free marketing for the game. Whales/ Kraken.... Blizzard will love you guys until you realize that there is no end content left and they can't possibly feed you enough content because the grind has been replaced with credit card swipes per second. Your enjoyment lasts for a few days and then it's boring.
I don't fully agree with your assessment here. At least in beta I was able to F2P to get The Immortal Crown. So dedicated F2P players definitely have a shot at the top. It all definitely depends on how they further balance the pay elements of the game before launch. So far, they have been very open to player feedback, so I'm optimistic that they will listen to the overwhelming majority of beta players who were unhappy with the balance of P2W.
@@echohack Buddy just because you can doesn't mean it's fun. I was one of the top wizards in the server throughout the beta, top 3 at least at all times. And was top one for a long while too. Does it make any difference? No. I still get one shotted every game. Only thing that kept me going is continuous play and being smart but that'll only take you so far. If I whale decide to target you specifically in bg, you can't do ANYTHING. This has happened to me, a very toxic whale decided to do nothing but chase me specifically whenever I'm in the same match and I had no choice but to run since I do little to no damage and get deleted in a few hits. Only a credit card allowed this person to do this. And this person wasn't even in the top 10 of their class. While manhandling a top 1 of another just because. The way it is getting the immortal crown or the pvp leaderboards dont hold any water, the whales can not car about any of it and treat the top of the top like ants.
@@rezorex-rezo-8203 if thats the same sh!t going around with this game i now have to definitely delete this game inmy mind before it comes out, i am tired of MMORPG that aren’t proper balanced, am a light spender like i grab some offers once in blue moon but when theres this two months newbies joins in and one shotted you and all your hard grinding for 2 years seems jokes thats the point were you lost interest ingame. I tried BDO ,its the only one that isn’t more of p2w but left way back behind to catch up and theres more of old regs. I was looking for some new MMORPGS reviews in upcoming games bt seems every one of them are focused in p2w. Well my journey ends here for mmorpg genre. Adios
@@limbujr i came from bdm p2w nonsense. This was kind of my last hope too. Ya, technically you aren't locked out of high end content and you can do high end as a f2p or a light spender. I was in top leaderboards in rifts both solo and team and top in pvp. But believe me, I was a bug. No way I could have reached team rifts without whale friends. This one dude practically solod it, with multiple people. He was almost in every slot in top 10. While I could barely not die, let alone do any damage. Yeah you can be on the top but you won't feel like you really are. Yeah your name is there but you aren't any different from the next guy. But hey blizzard said they'll change this system. Let's hope they do. If you are interested here is a detailed feedback I wrote for beta : www.reddit.com/r/DiabloImmortal/comments/s174d4/since_beta_is_now_over_and_a_lot_of_people_who/?
@@echohack I've played mobile games for quite a few years now. There won't be any balance in the very near future if the system remains like this for the simple fact that there are people that have all the time/ money in the world and they actually know how to play the game. If someone that spends hundreds of dollars EVERY DAY attaches himself to this, there is nothing balanced and once the game is launched... pulling back power gains has basically never happened. Meaning.. if they keep AR/ DR on legendary gems on release, that will not change. There are people that empty the store every day, just to be at the top in some power leader boards or equivalent, I've seen it in the past and it will happen on something as popular as Diablo. We've seen in WoW how people are excluded from content because they didn't match the rating a raid-leader wanted... . If it's possible to check ratings, the same might happen here. It's just historical understanding. I'm not surprised that some F2P managed to top some leader board during testing... I doubt that'll be the case in the live game. How many servers are there? How many ranking boards are there going to be?
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The first 5 minutes of this video gave me hope. Then that hope was ruthlessly assassinated. This sounds like some of the most predatory pay-to-win tactics in any ftp game, where only mega whales will be on top. If this is not changed by release it will be destroyed by critics.
I’m ok w the first two monetizarion methods. The battle pass and the limited “packages”. Similar to games like clash Royale . However, everything after that goes off the deep end.
We're learning some details about potential changes coming. Cross your fingers. I'm thinking they have fixed these problems. Video when we know concrete details.
@@echohack let’s hope. I know they won’t get a penny from me w this setup. If they cut back I could see myself spending between $5 and $60 a month. I think they will lose a LOT of players like me if they don’t cut out the unlimited power gains for insane $. Push come to shove I’ll wait for Diablo 4 while watching this game die in the west while it makes $$$$ off the bats**t crazy Koreans/Chinese billionaires that will spend $100,000 per character on this game.
The one thing I learned from the discussions the internet was having around Lost Ark"s monetization is that people do not want to feel like their progression is being undermined by those who pay. But you lifestyle, financial beliefs, income, and available time will determine how much you pay. Plus whether you're having fun with the game is greatly going to effect if you swipe or not.
For those who might not have a lot of money to spend but enjoy the gameplay loop of Lost Ark there is a path to progress through the endgame. And you can gain a decent gear score/item level to be highly successful in doing the hardest content without whaling.
But I "need" to have the best gear, be on top of the leaderboard, etc. The feeling of being able to obtain these things without excessively paying is the issue some people have. They just don't want to do great damage, but they want to do the best damage.
This game was not made for the western audiance so even if the western critics will be harsh it still can be a great success in it's planned environment - mostly in China.
@@gaborangeli3d I don’t doubt it. It will make a ton of money , tarnish blizzards rep even more, but they won’t care cause it’s all about the $$$. Such is life.
Dude you nailed this. Very respectable and thought out video from a player and business standpoint. I pray they watch this.
I don’t mind paying for skins and decorations or subscription or battlepass or buy the game or dlc’s to enjoy playing and support devs, but when im forced to pay so i can progress or compete heeeelll naaaw, i wanna play against skillful players not their wallets, sad that i was hyped for years and this is the shiit they giving us,after seeing all of this pay2win mechanics i no longer blame the people who lashed out on the announcement day blizzard deserved that, i guess need to wait again for POE mobile since they are anti pay2win and care about their player base.
Blizzard ain’t the same no more they fell off+ratio+L.
Sorry for the paragraph im just disappointed, and you are a great commenter and analyzer
Good video! Lets hope the devs also watched your video. Or respect player feedback. If they dont change anything this means they dont care at all.
Also to add. If I pay for season pass (a monthly bill) i shoudnt be even be able to buy other stuff.
This means i got a subscription + need to buy seperate packs this and that etc etc.
No thank you. You got a season pass? Then there shoudnt be anything else.
Only extra cosmetics would be ok.
Oh they fully know what they are doing. Nobody can ignore such thing.
I'm a long time Diablo player. Grant it this new game has new features that we haven't seen in any other Diablo game yet. Such features as the immortal system of course and then pvp. These are systems that I definitely would be interested in participating in but it's really not at the end of the day a deal breaker for me. I resigned a long time ago as a casual player that I would never be able to be competitive in any of the Diablo games. So before paid win became a reality in the Diablo franchise I still decided that instead of trying to be competitive I just simply ran my season solo and decided to just see how good I could do with a certain class or classes and any particular season. That's the same thing that I plan on doing with this new franchise. I'm not going to try to hope to compete with the whales and or even the heavier players that log in multiple hours a day. Instead I'm just going to choose a class that I want to play have fun playing it and see how far I can get and how good of gear that I can put together and how many Paragon or how high in the Paragon chart that I can go.
That's an awesome approach, I think the silent majority of players will do exactly as you described, actually.
@@echohack And then they spend a few $ on a limited time intro pack because why not? then another, and why not, 1 more. This is how players turn into spenders. I would rather just buy the mobile game completely for a set price then end up paying 5x that price with microtransactions that are forced upon me on login.
Conclusion 👉🏾 it’s hella p2w
imagine getting triggered because things arent free
@@Hugh.G.Rectionx facts I to also like the ability to buy my way to a competitive advantage
@@lollipopwaraxe6032 ill just enjoy the game. i might spend money i might not but i certainly wont start crying if other people want to spend money as it wont affect my game at all
Literally everything in life is pay to win. Accept it or ignore it. You won't change it.
@@charlesward6217 trueing. Except you really can’t “ignore” it. More like except it or endure it.
Seems P2W, hard pass for me, I would rather buy the game for 30-50 bucks and let everything be available in game with grind and RNG as long as they remove any buying of anything, of course they can still have a shop for costumes and pets, i would pay extra for things like that as a way to support the devs but at the current model it's a P2W mobile game so i'll pass...
Seems reasonable. Have you tried D2R?
I would love it if blizzard made us pay 13.99$ a month for the game. Any extra payments solely for cosmetics, instead of copying the other mobile games out there…
With the Battle Pass that's more or less the case. Any hardcore players will want to pay for the BP
Yea man I agree this is the best and most fun way on how to monetize a good game. These p2w legendary chest are going to break the game
@@MAKIUSO Monetization is going to totally destroy Diablo immortals I’m calling it right now f2p guys and even low spenders are only going to have fun for x of months before they hit that massive pay wall and it becomes blatantly obvious that the pay to win mechanics are over shadowing everything else
U see it's a mobile game, and the highest market for this game they have is in Asia. 13.99$ per month is like a fortune in Asia. This won't work.
But they could have just tried to monetise by selling skins. But they will get huge buck by the starting months nd then slowly the casual players will stop playing and then the whales will stop playing at some point as well.
Thus the game dies.
Because the amount of whales they want their game to be playing is proportional to the amount of casual players playing the game.
$100k level 1 barbarian looking for group! Send tell.
This video made me sad. I want come to diablo from state of survival, which is very p2w game. And from what i saw, some ppl have no problem to pay rodiculous ammouths of money for game purchases. I have no faith if it would happen in diablo too. Also, worst scenraio is, if this kind of ppl gather in one guild/alliance and ruin experinece for everyone else in server.
O rly though diablo pay system would be only about skins and battle pass.... So sad.
It's possible. I'm optimistic that the P2W elements won't have the significant impact you're imagining. No doubt there will be some impact. But during Beta the best players were ultimately determined by their skills.
I think you're right to be skeptical, and I am too. It's up to Blizzard to prove that this is really a real Diablo game and not a cashgrab.
No matter how good your ideas are for better gameplay, the only question you have to ask is "Will this negatively impact Blizzard's profits?" and if the answer is "yes" then they're not gonna do it. Just like every cash-grab mobile "free to play" game, they will jam in as many ways to spend real money as possible at the expense of better gameplay. Because at the end of the day, a slightly better game won't attract enough additional players to outweigh the money they can suck out of the players with a mediocre experience.
Ok trump supporter.
@@OregonCrow this is the most ignorant comment I have ever seen in my life what does his political views have to do with his comment
Don't waste you money on this. They didn't even bother to change the sound of gold being dropped, from Diablo3. also the game is made for harvesting money, i played for 1 hour and already got 4 push notifications about something they want me to spend money on.. it's rng and gambling. eu should ban this type of lootbox and overly priced packages. Literally 135€ for a gem pack.i dare to say, that nothing and absolutely nothing in that game is worth 135€ let alone 30€ as a decent PC game would cost
Once you allow Money to add Power in game, it's already P2W...
Most gamers prefer F2P so it will be an equal competitive environment...
Unless you just play-for-fun type that doesn't bother so much about being competitive...
If Blizzard needs money to stay in business, sell some cosmetics stuff instead (i.e. Skins, Banners, Armor Dye)...
What makes Diablo fun to play is party hunt and get those legendary loots by chance...
Most likely players will skip this and expect D4 provides a better community...
Question about pvp, with legendary gems being massively p2w how does it play into immortals vs shadows? can shadows raid enough of the immortals vault to even the pvp? or what has been your experience?
Shadows absolutely dominate the Vault. In fact it's not even fair to the Immortals as of the Beta. They need to swing the balance back in the other direction.
Um, they could just make a good game that doesn't need recurring purchases. I mean warcraft 3 is still bought and played to this day. Even tho Diablo 3 was disliked, it still sold millions of copies.
Elden ring recently came out when you published this video. And it is a way better game then this and needs no cash shop.
None of those games are MMOs or free to play games. They're very good games, some of the best. But you can't expect a game to be free to play and not have some kind of cash shop. The server costs alone would shut the game down instantly.
There was an amazing game called Moonrise made by a friend a mine. It was a next generation pokemon game. it was absolutely incredible. They launched it into early access. Their cash shop failed and the game was shut down just months later.
Diablo 3 was supposed to get a second expansion. Those plans were killed because they killed the RMA and it was considered a failure.
Sometimes it's not about how good the game is. You can have the best game in the world and die to server costs. As a developer, you're in a business to make money. It costs money to build new content. If you don't have a viable business model, your game dies.
Sadly they changed stuff since the beta.. there are advertisments now for example for the bundles when you beat a dungeon the first time. And because of the gated level system you can play as long as you want but the game punishes you for grinding more.
The game is still good as long as you aren't competitive in any way as you won't care that other people are much stronger by just spending money.
Completely agree about the "you won, here's a bill" thing. Coming from Raid (saw you on Darth's long VOD) where there's a meme "You earned it, now claim it! $99" packs when you hit max level. Those always felt slimy. Hopefully Blizzard hears your feedback.
Man you're good.. It felt like listening to my professor back in school... good job bro
ty!
Everything is fine even pay to win, but their inclusion theory just makes me not play their games ever, and i dont ggz wp ez git good
Ok...I've been super hyped for this game. I've been watching every video on it. With the monetization practice of the game, I'm wondering now if I will even play it. Maybe I won't download it at launch and I will just see if the game is as sleazy as it sounds.
Specifically, Legendary Gems need some work. Otherwise I actually think DI's monetization is pretty good. No stamina / energy system, no clicking on ads, etc.
@@echohack thanks for the update I saw your comment about them changing monetization after I wrote the comment. I really hope they change this. If my experience in mobile gaming has taught me anything, it's that people spending money is absolutely necessary but developers can go to far and allow monetization practices to ruin the game. I really hope they don't ruin this. I've been waiting for this game for a long time.
At first I was thinking yeah sure I will pay the $5 a month or even the $15 a month for the super subscription thing to support the game. By the end of the video Im not even sure I want to waste my time even playing the game now. It will be a 100% pay to win game where regular players, even ones that pay for subs, will be nothing but food and stepping stones for the whales. I dont think I will even play now. Too bad, I was looking forward to it but meh, I can live without it. If come launch this hasnt been changed I wont even play...
I was The Immortal as F2P so I think your assessment is a bit too heavy handed. Subscribe and stay tuned because we also think additional information is coming about nerfs to this system soon.
@@echohack how many hours per day did you play to become the immortal as F2P? I Heard some people spent 10's of thousands during the beta
Game sounds pay to win all ready lol thanks for saving me the time of playing it
good. the servers dont need to be clogged up with crybabies
If this is truly how the game launches, it will completely ruin the experience and they will lose a majority of their player base. I fail to understand why companies do this, Riot has grown to be one of the largest gaming companies and has yet to introduce any sort of P2W aspect to their games. They should have kept $$ for cosmetics and left the rest of the game F2P. I'm tired of games being made for Whales.
"Do you guys not have money?"
-Wyatt Cheng
It’s nice to hear someone creating videos that is actually intelligent and thinks through the entirety of a topic when it comes to gaming. Most steamers who never worked a day in their life approach the topic with no nuance at all, and a lack of understanding from the business side. Nice job on the analysis, and hope they listen.
I like the background music dude, diablo 2 harrogath(act 5)
Harrogath is the true vibe
Your videos are great man! you deserve a lot more subs than you have. Liked and subbed.
Thanks so much!
Sounds just as bad as mfr I’ll give the game a fair shot but I’m not spending 1 penny not even $10 for that awakening gem or whatever it’s called off of principal
As much as I have always loved and played any Diablo title, p2w has been the red line for me in any game I thought about playing. Having the chance to gain resources either by playing or buying (with a strong limit) would be fine with me. Finally, as a competitive player for the last 20+ years, I want to battle players, not their wallets.
Move your script teleprompter CLOSER to the camera.
Thanks for the feedback! I'm literally reading off my phone and it's as close to the camera as possible. I don't have a teleprompter... yet! Waiting until I can get one for the channel.
It's all pay2win. Especially PvP. As soon as you are able to spend money to gain certain items (LVL 5) it is pay to win.
Look at pubgm 0 pay2win and a huge profit.
It's all in the cosmetics. But DI want to choose the pay2win path
Don't you think black-and-white thinking like this hides the more important discussion about aligning business incentives with monetization? A game with no good monetization options and no way to fund future development is a dead game too ya know? (See Diablo 3)
@@echohack to be honest the way they do it now is very black and white thinking. They go for pay2win from the beginning. for me they should start with selling only cosmetics.. if that does not thing enough revenue they can start selling gems and slowly go to pay2win. They would have then from both worlds.
Now try to do it they other way around: start with pay2win and have people paid for items. Now you cannot go disable/delete that to try out just to survive on cosmetics.
Pubg mobile showed it is possible. The fact that they didn't even gave it a try is a missed opportunity and we will now never find out "what if" they tried without pay2win.
Of course this is just my opinion.
@@ntralala are you a dang kid to compare pubgm with diablo ???
I think any game that’s free will have some aspects that you can pay for. It seems Diablo immortal isn’t riddled with p2w aspects. I’ll be getting the battle pass because I find that the most valuable
Me too!
yeah.... not much... just probably like +300% more attribute for those pay money and f2p player :)
@@weeeeewaaaaaaa they’ve made f2p playing a lot better regarding legendary gems but yeah there’s gonna be some mad whales regardless
Bro is it true that you have to spend $60.000,- if you want full max gear?
No. You can't buy better gear in this game, you have to grind for it.
@@echohack thanks a lot for the reply. Do you maybe know the droprate % of a 5 star gem?
Completely agree with the legendary crests. They need to be capped or tuned. ORDR needs to be removed at the minimum. 100% agree with the whole video and i also gave feedback during CBT. Lets hope they listen to the community and it doesn't die within the first 2 months
100k$ for max resonance equip/gems? Holy cow.
Why even bother with that Pay2Win Bullshit when you can play a dozen other Action RPGs with better gameplay, graphics and no pay2win?
Game is out now...and I'm not a competitive player...but a long time (20 years) player. As pointed out, the return of my favorite PvP will now always have a ?...did this person just buy this? And there will *always* be people who will do so. But nope, won't be playing this or giving the descendents of Greed money to enjoy the game on a level field.
This has way to few views :(
On my server there's a dude on personal challenge 39 and it's just been 3 days of the game so.... Imagine the amount of money this dude dumped that's gonna make blizzard go crazy to milk whales.
Purchases should be time saving not horrible unbreakable paywalls
maybe we should start calling these games P2? instead of P2W. having said that... Lost ark is pay to win and I think I will feel that way about diablo immortal as well but oh well thats how games are these days. I hod hoped that Diablo Immortal would maybe just have a $60 buy in to play it and then skip all this crap but I think they are saying to lost ark, "hold my beer."
I am not averse to monthly subs, as long as it provides basic slower ways to get the same thing the whales want on day 1. Cosmetics, empower, etc. If they expect me to get a monthly pass AND a purchase cosmetics and empowerments, etc. I will be stopping play pretty quickly.
This game is ruined cause "... business side", you got countries saying F your predatory gambling business system IT WILL ALWAYS SUK
I rather love games I purchase for money. These are often more fun and balanced. If pay to win is too extreme you loose non paying. As result you won t feel any imporovement as you only play against other players who do also pay to win as the prays are gine. And then ppl asks them selves why should I buy. I dont become superman. While losing they leave also the game And the rest leave as no one plays the game. What I d like to illustrate is that pay to win is risky. I also know games where you purchase hings that you grind less but with hard cap or design elements. Ppl will support good games But pay to win wil only be supported by egoists.
interestig, infinte stackable power in small icremets mean the diference between a f2p adn someone who spends like 100$ a month is miniscule, but some millonaire who spends thousands a month can be infinitely more strong, feels as if the intent is to keep power relative for 99% of players but actually exclusively lean on whales for most funding lol,
In Diablo Immortal, there are a lot of people and like me who don't want to spend on the Dawning Echo item that is only obtained through microtransactions. Which I don't like, but I'm fine if that is there, but can make a feature or something for people who just want to play or hardcore players who don't to spend money to get through other means. Hopefully the next update you can add a way to get it, but it is harder to get material to balance the game for elders rifts and as well for PVP, which is also essential for that extra bit of damage percentage increase. Please add where we can get without having to spend money, but be harder to get like other items that are hard to get as well. If you are going to add an item or a feature that requires money to increase the combat rating of character also add a way to get it, but adjust where it's harder or easier depending on how much it increases combat rating. Please fix the balance once the next update comes out for Diablo Immortal. Hope the feature where we can this paid to win items for free through other means for free.
I don't know what to say honestly, I feel so disappointed, twice in the same week, because I also tried the torchlight beta and they have a gacha pet system? Wtf it's happening? Just because it's a mobile game it needs to be p2w?
Look at what they have done, it's extremely pay to win
Yep they didn't fix anything and made it worse. So disappointed.
@@echohack Please make a new video about it, this shouldn't pass like nothing happened, these companies must learn
Legendary gems = p2w. GG
Dude, the whole intro made me wanna skip your video... pointlessly beating around the bush... too much repetition. Just giving you a point where to look and try to improve. The rest is ok. Good try though.
So the game will be pay to win. Pass to this game is not going to be that balanced. The idea you had, is that the devs will know that people want more from some content... they can check the logs of player activities for that... weak argument. The bundles are again pay to win, and the rest of the discussion you gave is more or less not correct on that topic.
How they can earn from this game - Buy to play, Check GW2 cosmetics, donations, etc. (ofc this does not mean to make only one way to gain cosmetics, and only the paid ones look cool)
Good feedback. This video is a few months old now. Check some of my newer content for an ever-improving process!
Lost Ark vs Diablo Immortal P2W in one word (acronym): PvP.
This game is tuned around people like me that have mental iilness and poor self control, my brain is highly tuned towards rewards and they exploit it.I think its sick and bad to exploit mentally ill people for money
having a script is all well and good but when you read from it 95% of the time the video becomes very impersonal and frustrating to watch.. when we cant have "eyecontact" with you its like talking to someone that never looks you in the eyes.. Makes the video hard to watch. I recomend that you either improvise more in the future or learn the script by heart so you dont need to read from it constantly. Just have a handfull of footnotes to keep you on the right track.
I'm a much better writer than a speaker. I just need to get a teleprompter. Thanks for that feedback!
Nice video! I think you nailed it even tho I havn't seen the game yet. but. wow, 2 huge points there, paying for gear and that endgame bill.. Mephisto be damned!!! they better smarten up!!! also, i'd rather pay 20/30$ for a lifetime pass, but ... ya, 5$ per month should be PLENTY to developers to kept incentivizing that addition. all comes down to the gear grind... and it sounds like they messed it up... with, worse, money.
The gear grind in this game is absolutely sacred and safe. You can never ever buy gear.
What's (still) questionable is Legendary Gems. We still don't know all the changes that will land here before launch.
who cares if p2w i just want to enjoy diablo immortal hehehe.. anyway gotta grind😂
13:40 'gonna need a beer for this one..'
hahaha
Ty for this and the rest of your content. I’m excited to play DI but worried that I’ll get to end game and just quit due to p2w.
P2w its easy, if you can buy more than skins with real money, thats that.
Poe is the best exemple
It’s not his fault he does a better job at presentation than they have.
I really hope those p2w high power but weak in top tier pvp player will not stay in low tier pvp to slay f2p player.
You can make a completely free game for all and offer a lot of cosmetic items to earn momey. The point is choosing to earn a FAIR amount or a monstruos amount . Diablo Immortal has been created to be Pay to Win in order to makr them really rich. Pratically, you have to pay A LOT just to have the chance to do the same thing you do with Diablo 3. For me, this game is already dead.
Give the game a shot and don't ever pay Blizzard a dime and you'll still have fun. If you don't like it for any reason, no harm done.
@@echohack Not being damaged directly doesn't mean no damage at all. Let the pay to win formula win, means that we're another step closer to the complete destruction of the videogame scene. And we're talking about Diablo, not a stupid mobile game. Like the entire city is burning but my house not, so gg let's relax on the couch.
i mean.. if you fight a Whale in PVP.. you cant beat him.. when he spent 60k on gem upgrades
Not correct. CR (Combat Rating) is capped at a certain percentage in many PvP game modes. You definitely can win with enough skill and grinding as F2P, though pound-for-pound they might have an advantage. I was beating people with 10K+ spent with $60 spend.
@@echohack OK that makes me feel better!. thank you for that. And the reply!
Pay to Win is good practice for kids too young to understand the American economy
Nice video, excellent perspective, new subscriber here.
I will never touch a game that sells stuff in-game.
You had very valid points, well thought out and presented thanks for that. I don't mind some pay to win but thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars just to play end game and be competitive sounds terrible.
just let this shit game die before born
the blizzard we all loved is long gone
Game has been launched . Has any of these concerns been addressed?
All the clips of the game show it zoomed in so much. Hope you can zoom out on PC.
The game's FOV is unlikely to be different on PC. The aspect ratio of your monitor effects the FOV in a big way though, so an ultrawide might help if you don't like the regular viewing distance
great video thank you for the sincerity and precision
Even with your proposed changes this game would still be p2w, just not as much.
What parts would still be pay to win and what would you further change?
If you think it will still be p2w with his proposed changes then I'm not sure what definition you use for p2w, but I guess you see all games as p2w, or at least you should.
@@echohack ey MR. echohack lets change it where you pay for the game once and then you play it how simple :D
@@rarestep agreed
Netese gonna fk us so bad....
maybe
it is pain to win... 21 mins trying to justify why pay to win is not greed
Great vid! Gamers went from having zero new options to a bunch: Di, Lost Ark, Undecember, and Elden
Rings to name a few. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The best, and the most fair system will be the model for the next. And most likely have a longer shelf life = fewer harpoons and more fishing nets!
Thanks echohack.
Yes!!! This is perfect!!!!!!!
YES!!
If they asking for money... Its paid to win. Hands down.
i hate lose to rich kids. battle pass and some bundle shit is fine to pay. but if I have to pay some legendary gems. that's was to much greed
If you blast you'll be competitive for sure.
Is the game fun? Sure. But I have fun winning. Gtfo here lol. Everyone cares if games are p2w.
If you want to win Immortal in this game (Literally high warlord / top spot on the server) then you're playing politics. You can still win without P2W if you're willing to organize a group of absolute blasters for the cycle of strife.
Going for the top spot does have some P2W associated with it though. That's just facts. But it's not as pervasive as you make it sound
I really like the tone of your voice. It’s pleasant to listen to.
no offence. For me, this video seems trying very hard to polish diablo's "p2w" >.
Just telling it how it is, not trying to "polish" anything.
i see asmon i comment
This made me chuckle. Haha!
In lost ark you can be very competitive in pve (as long you dont seek to be top in leaderboards) just buying standard bundles (lost ark pass/crystaline aura each month and that's it). Moreover pvp is 0 pay to win. Maybe diablo Immortal is fun to grind but from that described legendary crests and gem system, it is an "infinite" P2W system. If it is maintained in release, no point to even try the game for my part because I know for sure that whatever your skill you CANNOT beat a whale in diablo immortal in pvp when in lost ark, there is 0 monetization for competitive pvp. Moreover even in pve whales need real skill in high pve content in lost ark with one shot mechanics
The only game I've seen do F2P and not have P2W ethically is Path of Exile. You can legit if you wanted to play the entire game completely free (that being said you WILL want stash tabs, which are not nearly as expensive as anything listed here).
I already know why Diablo is coming to mobile, and F2P as well. It's because what they're going for is for the mobile players who are dolphins and whales. A lot of mobile games I have played are heavily monetized by in-game items that powers up the characters.
Do we have any inclination they will change legendary gems/ crests before launch?
Feels a lot more netease
&
Alot less blizzard.
There's some early hints that there are changes (P2W nerfs) coming. Exactly what those changes are, are hard to pin down right now, but I'll make a video when we can.
@@echohack Heros work.
@@echohack looking forward to it! Fortunately it looks pretty fun on a moderate budget.
Any thoughts on having alt accounts to feed to your main account? Can it be beneficial in any way (maybe through the marketplace)?
No, alt account feeding in this game won't help you even a little.
@@echohack Thanks! Another question: if you obtain vault loot (triple stat leggies), after a new cycle of strife do you get to keep vault loot forever or do you lose it?
great video
ty!
need new video to clear the air on P2W, too much misinformation out there.
Yep. I agree. But the info we need to clear the air isn't available yet
Thank you for the great video, love your enthusiasm
Thanks Kryptic!
Echohack, good job on the video. By far you are the most well spoken, thoughtful, logical and insightful UA-cam mobile gamer I’ve seen yet. Your ideas are great and you obviously know what you are talking about. Keep the great content coming.
As for everyone else, if you want positive changes within a Diablo Inmortal game, blow up this channel with likes and subs so it gains traction and attention from Blizzard. This way they can make changes to the game that will influence its quality and replayability for the better.
That thing that u can only buy in the € shop to awaken legendary items is actually killing me ..
The game is fun I know I've been playing Diablo 1 Diablo 2 Diablo 3and all their expansion from PC until I have my own gaming laptop PS3 and PS4.the problem with others players are they want an easy way to play because they want all the legendary item gems and all the best perks in the game in the easiest way without paying that's why they said pay to win instead of playing all the way until you find all the best legendary items where's the fun of that if you want all power in an early way how do you expect to appreciate and Love the game.
Play d1 psx versión too??
@@clarocomoelagua1 I had that version as well as the pc version. good old days :(
@@FalconStrikeGames the psx version unlike the pc version had an extra level of difficulty, I think it was the nightmare level and it was quite a challenge.... And not many people played up to that level, since the psx version put to limited the power of the console and some levels the lag was unbearable, apart from the load times that were very long between levels, but I personally loved playing it..
@@clarocomoelagua1 i didnt play it thoroughly because of the fact that i picked up that version while i was playing D2. I kind of used it as my diablo escape during my cottage get away. Either way, it was still a good game!
Nah ill past its heavy pay to win
its super easy and simple
is it multiplayer?
does using money give you any advantage over non paying person
if both are yes then its pay to win
Stick with the battle pass only and nothing els
Sounds like a good plan
Is there any dps meter in diablo immortal? i like to see total damage done in pve content.
no damage meters
@@echohack aw!!! thats no fun... i enjoy seeing damage done like in wow.
Blizzard should allow all of these gems and P2W features available buy doing a once a day or once a week dungeon/rift but you can buy a CD scroll from the store so you can do the daily/weekly missions/rift/dungeon.
how much does blizzard pay you ? :)
🤣 $0.00
LOL
If you need to have this much word play around the subject then i guess that YES, it is pay to Win 😂.
Don’t try to confuse people with elaborate words into something that is not an argument. There are many people who have played the game and confirmed that it is.
As soon as the money invested alteres your stats it is 100% pay to win.
As soon as a game puts you into a paywall STOP in order to proceed, it is P2W.
They shouldn’t have done this for the Main quest line.
Hard pass on this one. I dont trust blozzard
smart choice
Music in the background pls??
Sure! Check some of my newer videos :)
1. Battlepass: more expensive than players paid for full fledged MMO's without having full access to everything/ much much longer grind (3./4./5.)
2. Bundles: time saving for money, prices (60USD) are nothing compared to other mobile games.
3. Legendary Crests/ Legendary Gems: so this is where the actual P2W is happening similar in value to other cashgrab mobile games where players spend thousands of dollars.
4. Legacy of the Horadrim, Runes etc.: not as powerful as legendary Crests/ gems yet unlimited so again, player can spend hundreds of dollars
5. Awakening: considering to Legendary Crests/ other unlimited empowerments, this is still P2W but with a ceiling level
6. Market: can one trade items among their own characters or goes this as well via the market?
I wonder what they thought when looking at Path of Exile. Were they thinking that... while that game is successfull and has a playerbase... we really need to implement 1/2/3/4 and 5 to bleed players dry.
I cannot hear the "but they need to get paid" argument any longer. I've heard it for decades and the result is that it is now considered "acceptable" for mobile games to allow players spending tens of thousands and more of dollars in their games. This has nothing to do with paying salaries but profit, profit and more profit.
Considering that the above system exist in Beta and the historical adjustments between Beta and final games.. all the above will remain for the foreseeable future. Why should Blizzard adjust anything when the mobile whales and kraken enter their game and spend thousands of dollars on day one just to appear on some leaderboards.
Therefore... free to play/ battlepass players... enjoy the story. Don't bother trying to get into raids or.. lol... pvp because, your rating SUCKS.
Content creators... see you in a few months when they create their first F2P accounts because they've covered what they can cover, invested their thousands of dollars to do pvp and join raids and provide free marketing for the game.
Whales/ Kraken.... Blizzard will love you guys until you realize that there is no end content left and they can't possibly feed you enough content because the grind has been replaced with credit card swipes per second. Your enjoyment lasts for a few days and then it's boring.
I don't fully agree with your assessment here. At least in beta I was able to F2P to get The Immortal Crown. So dedicated F2P players definitely have a shot at the top.
It all definitely depends on how they further balance the pay elements of the game before launch. So far, they have been very open to player feedback, so I'm optimistic that they will listen to the overwhelming majority of beta players who were unhappy with the balance of P2W.
@@echohack Buddy just because you can doesn't mean it's fun. I was one of the top wizards in the server throughout the beta, top 3 at least at all times. And was top one for a long while too. Does it make any difference? No.
I still get one shotted every game. Only thing that kept me going is continuous play and being smart but that'll only take you so far. If I whale decide to target you specifically in bg, you can't do ANYTHING. This has happened to me, a very toxic whale decided to do nothing but chase me specifically whenever I'm in the same match and I had no choice but to run since I do little to no damage and get deleted in a few hits. Only a credit card allowed this person to do this. And this person wasn't even in the top 10 of their class. While manhandling a top 1 of another just because.
The way it is getting the immortal crown or the pvp leaderboards dont hold any water, the whales can not car about any of it and treat the top of the top like ants.
@@rezorex-rezo-8203 if thats the same sh!t going around with this game i now have to definitely delete this game inmy mind before it comes out, i am tired of MMORPG that aren’t proper balanced, am a light spender like i grab some offers once in blue moon but when theres this two months newbies joins in and one shotted you and all your hard grinding for 2 years seems jokes thats the point were you lost interest ingame. I tried BDO ,its the only one that isn’t more of p2w but left way back behind to catch up and theres more of old regs. I was looking for some new MMORPGS reviews in upcoming games bt seems every one of them are focused in p2w. Well my journey ends here for mmorpg genre. Adios
@@limbujr i came from bdm p2w nonsense. This was kind of my last hope too. Ya, technically you aren't locked out of high end content and you can do high end as a f2p or a light spender.
I was in top leaderboards in rifts both solo and team and top in pvp. But believe me, I was a bug. No way I could have reached team rifts without whale friends. This one dude practically solod it, with multiple people. He was almost in every slot in top 10. While I could barely not die, let alone do any damage.
Yeah you can be on the top but you won't feel like you really are. Yeah your name is there but you aren't any different from the next guy.
But hey blizzard said they'll change this system. Let's hope they do.
If you are interested here is a detailed feedback I wrote for beta :
www.reddit.com/r/DiabloImmortal/comments/s174d4/since_beta_is_now_over_and_a_lot_of_people_who/?
@@echohack I've played mobile games for quite a few years now. There won't be any balance in the very near future if the system remains like this for the simple fact that there are people that have all the time/ money in the world and they actually know how to play the game.
If someone that spends hundreds of dollars EVERY DAY attaches himself to this, there is nothing balanced and once the game is launched... pulling back power gains has basically never happened. Meaning.. if they keep AR/ DR on legendary gems on release, that will not change.
There are people that empty the store every day, just to be at the top in some power leader boards or equivalent, I've seen it in the past and it will happen on something as popular as Diablo.
We've seen in WoW how people are excluded from content because they didn't match the rating a raid-leader wanted... . If it's possible to check ratings, the same might happen here. It's just historical understanding.
I'm not surprised that some F2P managed to top some leader board during testing... I doubt that'll be the case in the live game.
How many servers are there? How many ranking boards are there going to be?