The Clone Wars We Never Got | How Star Wars Treated the Clone Wars before the Prequels
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2017
- In Today's Star Wars Lore Episode, we examine how Star Wars Legends and the Expanded Universe treated the Clone Wars before Episode II explained what the Clone Wars actually were! As you may know, in Star Wars: A New Hope, Luke asks Obi-Wan: "You fought in the Clone Wars?" We dig deep into some old Star Wars books, and some Star Wars comic books, to see how they treated that line - what they got right and wrong. We pay extra close attention to the Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn, as it deals regularly with Clones, and explicitly mentions the Clone Wars.
Thanks to Lucasfilm's Pablo Hidalgo, who provided some insight into the question. Read our exchange here: / 913044788563165184
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HOME - All at Once
HOME - Resonance - Фільми й анімація
The line about Luke’s father being a navigator on a spice freighter lead to Anakin getting the Twilight in the Clone Wars show. Giving more credence to Owen’s lie.
Whatever happened to the Twilight? It was a cool ship.
John Morgan got destroyed on mandalore when obi wan was escaping from maul
@@dylanmcnab2980
Damn it Maul!
Not lie, diffrent point of veiw, nothing he said was a lie
Kova Toro its a pity that the Twilight ended up being ignored and left in disrepair after the second season of Clone Wars. Only to return in Season 5 where it had become a literal flying junk pile.
It was a cool single ship and had a unique appearance. It was like the Republic’s equivalent of the Millennium Falcon. The Twilight at least deserved a better fate.
I like the version we got better. A clone apocalypse is a bit too cliche and unoriginal. I like how they went with the clones being with "the good guys", it makes it more interesting. And speaking of "good guys", another thing I like about the clone wars is how it's actually not as black & white as the galactic civil war. Both sides being secretly manipulated by the same person (Palpatine/Darth Sidious) to achieve his own ends, the separatists actually having some valid complaints about the republic, the Jedi being stuck in the middle and forced to fight a war and become generals despite their traditional role as peace keepers, the clones actually being able to show some level of individual personalities, it all makes for a much more interesting story than "big bad clones are coming to get us all".
TheShadowOfMadness very well put, I agree
There was also some interesting speciesist undertones to the war. As the Sep council was largely comprised of Alien races, with Dolly serving as the head and being vilified as a traitor. This was fostered by Sidious as he forsaw such sentiments being useful in his Empire as an easy way to justify the slavery that many of his projects would require, even if he didn’t hold to the views himself.
TheShadowOfMadness You have a valid point thematically, but the execution of the version we got was just awful.
the prequels are actually pretty awesome
They were still "evil" they were created by the sith
As a kid, Star Wars had a much more mysterious and post apocalyptic, feel to it before the prequels. The clone wars was like a huge and ominous terrible event that caused planets like Tatooine to look like the barren wastes from Mad Max. You had spaceships but they all looked worn out and such and so on. That said, all the fighting in the original trilogy feels like small battles now compared to the galaxy-wide "wars" portrayed in the prequels. You guys know what I'm saying?
It's a limitation of the budget at the time the OT was made but yes, the prequels have larger battles but there's so much going on that it doesn't even make an impression.
Generally in storytelling, there's a tension between show and tell. Some stuff works better for show -- we know Han is a dangerous person because of the way he handled Greedo, we were shown instead of told. But other stuff works better with a sense of mystery. As you noticed, there was mystery about the past before they explicitly showed it in the prequels. Much of this plays out with character backstories. We are given enough to see on-screen to imagine things like Boba Fett's backstory, his relation to Han, etc, and we see what explicitly plays out in the films but trying to depict all the backstory can end up ruining the experience or highlight damaging contradictions in the backstory since the three originals clearly cobbled things together. Vader was not Luke's father in ANH, Luke and Leia were not siblings in EMP, the explanation for Obi-Wan's lie in ROTJ was bogus. You can gloss over some of this if you only watch the originals but the prequels make the problems unavoidable.
No I don't could you elaborate a bit please?
Gregory Muir I agree. Filling in all the backstory after the fact with the prequels sorta ruins the mystique of the OT. Not to mention the prequels were utter garbage that can’t lick the boots off the OT. I also believe many of the narrative decisions in the PT weren’t genuinely part of the OT myth is in any way. Just Lucas making excuses for ripping off the imagery of the OTto get fanboys in the seats
What kills me is people cannot differentiate between good mystery and bad mystery. Good mystery is not knowing what Boba Fett's past is and dying to know the details. Bad mystery is being in the dark about Boba Fett's motivations in the film. (There's a difference between wondering what someone's angle is and having no bloody idea what's going on because the movie is incoherent. We thought Han was a mercenary only in it for the money until the very end of ANH when he arrives at the last minute in the Falcon.) JJ introduced his mystery boxes to the new trilogy and he cannot differentiate between good and bad. The lack of explanation for what's going on in TFA means a giant reset button was set. How did we go from the Rebels winning the war and establishing a New Republic to being Rebels again? How could the First Order make weapons more powerful than the Empire when they're supposed to be a splinter faction? Where the hell did this Snoke person come from who seems older and more powerful than Palpatine? People will argue that Palpatine was similarly unexplained but that's not true. There was a Republic, it became an Empire, he's in charge. Because there was no prior canon to worry about, it made sense as presented.
Gregory Muir your hypothetical example with Boba Fett was a great example of good vs bad mystery. I’d argue not knowing any motivation at all is more so just a character failure.
I must say tho- I’m not seeing where any of those criticisms you mentioned about TFA mysteries are similar in their “bad mystery”
How did they go from winners to losers? ....a bit more backstory would be cool but is it really needed? It’s SW. there’s a big bad regime oppressing an outnumbered yet resilient protagonist. Same as OT. We didn’t know much at all.
I’m not sure where it’s stated the First Order is a “splinter faction”. I believe it just “rose from the ashes of the Empire”. Idk I figured the DS being destroyed probably made a big dent but there had to have been thousands of ships and troopers if not more throughout the galaxy. Maybe they didn’t get em all? Anyway- dude it’s a new SW movie. Everything is gonna be bigger and better. How the Empire build the Death Star? We didn’t know
As for Snoke- people equate not knowing his backstory with Palpatine but in fairness we got more closure with Emperor because it was the finale and evil had been defeated.
But we didn’t know much at all about the Emperor in the OT. It wasn’t fleshed out that he led the republic, or at least where he stood in it all. We knew he was in charge. We know Snoke is in charge. Not too much difference really.
This is part of my issue- we are looking at these new movies thru our insane, pedantic, nit picky SW fanboy lenses. That includes me lol. And it’s intellectually dishonest.All these questions we have and complaints about little backstory are actually a product of so many people raised on the prequels or at least projecting our prequel and EU knowledge into the OT. Very very little of any of that was originally part of the story. In fact so many of the Last Jedi detractors don’t even realize how much of their SW lore was never real to begin with
Long story short- just not sure how any of those mysteries in TFA you mentioned are in any way as problematic as something like a characters motivation. I think SW was always originally a lot more simple. That backstory was there as just that...backstory. To provide OT scenes with context. We didn’t need some stupid prequel trilogy to fill in some backstory of whoms finer details never really mattered
I like how George Lucas completely defied expectations for the Clone Wars and made it a much more unique story, even if the prequel movies were controversial.
tommytom They were great in concept, sadly it wasn't that well written. At least the prequels spawned the Clone Wars TV show.
And alot of EU and canon books and comics. :D
Defying expectations I’m not inherently a good thing and if the controversy is about how shit it is with most of the conversation revolving around lazy direction, boring cinematography, flaky characters and uninspired acting I don’t think you can get away with implying Lucas was brave.
I did too, people have to remember it IS fiction....entertainment, if your belief is too complex to be suspended, then you have lost the child like wonder that got you into it in the first place.
I think he's a lot braver than Jar Jar Abrams. I used to _love_ JJ, but after The Force Awakens I'd rather have George Lucas back any day of the week.
I love the fan speculation that Darth Vader was literally a clone of Anakin who killed the original and that Obi-wan was a clone of Ben Kenobi whose clone designation was OB1.
That's the best craziest thing I've ever heard
DAN HUHN and SUUUUPER dumb. Like that would have just been stupid.
And jar jar was a clone.
Yea and Palpatine is obiously no other than the clone of Darth Jar Jar.
I remember the Ben Kenobi/OB1 idea going back all the way to the ‘80s (it works out well with the names of said characters) - it was a popular idea post-ROTJ when fans would discuss what these “Clone Wars” were like and how the OT characters would have fit into the stories.
Before the prequels some people also theorized that Obi-Wan's name was actually OB-1, and that he was a clone of someone with the initials "O.B."
Drannion Entertainment Interesting thought, but why would a clone be a jedi? Was the original template a jedi too?
Drannion Entertainment indèed thats what i thought when i watched it the first time. After the mention of the clone wars i assumed he is the original clone copy
Drannion Animation In the “dark times” post-ROTJ to what’s considered the birth of Extended Universe with the Zahn Trilogy, the prevailing theory was that Obi-Wan was the first clone of the “Original Ben” Kenobi (thus the “OB-1”/“Obi-Wan” designation), thus explaining the confusion of being known by both the common name of Ben and the very uncommon Obi-Wan. At the time with no other info but the very small mentions from the films and books, it made sense.
EDIT: Formatting Fix.
Drannion Animation this is super interesting, haven't heard about this before!
Drannion Animation That's an interesting theory.
I like what they did with it in the prequels. Two highly efficient, highly expendable armies endlessly going at it.
Both sides controlled by the same mastermind taking advantage of the corruption of the senate and the status quo of the council.
@@thehmc Literally the opposite of boring. Very interesting, deep, and complex.
Definition proxy war
Especially when you realize the Separatists are really the good guys.
@@NYG5 That's the thing I always hated so much about explorations of the Clone Wars. Every time it's used the material wants to double dip by saying "war is gray, yo" but then having the separatists basically be Cobra-level evil. The CG series is my favorite part of the universe by far, but as much as I really like the ambiguous, heroes-on-both-sides thing they're always pushing, its basically invalidated when every other mission the Jedi go on is to stop the Confederacy from engaging in _mass slavery._
Gray morality can only go so far when your villains pivot from either underwritten to some variant of Saturday morning cartoon (cough _Dooku/GRIEVOUS_ cough) and the most frequent thing we see the army do is burn villages and kidnap civilians for no reason. Which, yeah, happens in real life, but this isn't Earth, so what you're actually showing the audience is the only thing that matters.
The stuff like Mina Bonteri is some of the most interesting ideas the show ever put out, but in the end it's ruined by how their storytelling need for sequential conflict affected their portrayal of the other side.
My father served in the Clone Wars. He wont ever talk about what he did back then. I hear him wake up sometimes yelling. I just know that The Clone Wars breaks my heart.
Andre Montelongo nigga what
This ain't Vietnam
cant tell if thats a pass at vietnamese people or not
I hope to hell you're not being serious. That shit ain't funny.
Jacob Robinson, it seems like a joke about how no one knew what the clone wars was but seemed to be very impactful
The clone wars is my favorite Star Wars era. It's pretty much my OT. I grew up when it was new
Same here. High five
the ot is boring compared to the clone wars
Jrod ProductionStudios Same
urjnlegend honestly it really is,it's this black and white Ness that just...is a bit boring.Evil empire vs the good rebels!I'm good rogue one showed us a bit of grey with the whole thing,but the clone wars had plenty of grey in it,with the clones trying to find themselves.Are they machines,soldiers,humans...or all of the above?
The Jedi being in it added in another arc,showing us their conflicts and inherent contradictions.They supported using a slave army basically...worse than conscripts.
The inner politics of the Republic we're also another thing.It showed that perhaps the CIS were right,that the republic was corrupt.
Anakin's conflict also showed that maybe the sith and Jedi weren't that different...they manipulated the universe to their will in their own ways.It shows that really only Luke was the first real Jedi in a while.The most Jedi thing he did was to throw down his weapon.
Honestly,imo,the only things interesting in the OT,at least legends,was thrawn and the vong,maybe some others I don't know about...
but this just my opinion.
Jrod ProductionStudios I love the Clone Wars and Prequels, as I grew up with them.
And I don't give a dam if people say the prequels are bad. I love them.
Do you think the droid-torture scenes in ESB and ROTJ(and R2 not being allowed in the cantina) were meant to hint toward droids playing a role in the Clone Wars and that people were still a bit traumatized by that?
Rhas 'Churol Probably not i doubt it.
In episode 2 there was (ironically) a droid telling R2 that droids weren't allowed in the bar, so it's probably has to do with the fact that droids don't need the stuff an organic would have, and a droid would just be using up space a paying customer could use.
+Cory Fice Okay, maybe not that part. But what about Jabba's Palace and all of the droids being tortured there, and the room of scrapped droid parts in Cloud City?
Jabba tortures anyone he doesn't like and the scrapped droid parts could be because they are recycling them, at the end of the day they are still machine.
Cory Fice
But their programming makes them feel sentient.
No it was just a typo, it was suppose to be The Cologne Wars.
*Ulm has joined a faction against Cologne*
@@zacharymohammadi Ulm is the true mastermind controlling both sides behind the scenes.
Colon wars
@@neonman1604
The Stains of the Colon Wars will forever leave there mark on the Galaxy.
@@zacharymohammadi Coalition!
I have a theory
What if the pre-prequel novels/comics weren't wrong but just misinformed
Since the clone war was affecting almost the entire galaxy many alien planet saw the war from different perspective
That's pretty much why they named them legends. Basically a version of story passed down with some truth but certainly not a reliable historical source.
Juan Rodriguez good point
So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.
White Chocolate and lord knows no one in the galaxy could remember what happened 18 years ago. Lol. That’s one of the silly things about Star Wars- things didn’t happen that long ago yet the movies present it as ancient history of which all knowledge was lost. Let me get this straight- the Jedi were the guardians of peace throughout the galaxy for a thousand? Thousands? Of years, get wiped out and disappear for 18 years and they’re just like a legend? I gotta give that a: Come on man. Continuity is not Star Wars strong suit- Tolkien Lucas (or Disney) are not.
@@dadventuretv2538 There were 10 000 or so Jedi. There are hundreds of billions of planet in the galaxy. 99,9% of people have never ever seen a Jedi. How many of them never heard of them? A lot. That was one of the reasons behind the Confederacy. That the Republic and Jedi care about the Core and ignore the rest. We see the Jedi as the guardians of peace, but a lot of people saw them as self-righteous henchmen of the corrupt Republic. It would be great had this theme was explored in the High Republic. But that is not going to happen, of course.
We have an intimate knowledge of the order of the Jedi. The people of the galaxy on the other hand? Do you know who is the leader of China? Most likely. Who is the second in charge? And that is just a single planet. We are talking about the whole galaxy. It is not unreasonable to argue many people had no idea what the Republic is. Planets like Tatooine? Did they know? Did they care? Some of them I guess.
And then we have this secrete order of warrior monks. For most people they were most likely a legend even in the times they were plentiful. In the OT, you have people like Han Solo who laughs at the idea, Tarkin who is aware of the religion and Akbar who shouts "May the Force be with us."
There are no continuity issues. The issues are: 1) The Clone Wars are not exactly portraited as the galaxy shattering conflict they are supposed to be. If it was going on from Phantom Menace, then yes, but three years is just too short.
2) ST. But who cares about that. It is full of holes anyway.
If you look at Episode 4 completely by itself, it told a very different story that was retconned over the original trilogy, and then especially over the prequels.
There was a feudal style governmental system with houses having power over entire planets, and under them served Jedi Knights. In our story's case, Bail Organa was monarch under the Empire (without Bail Antilles holding that position) who had Jedi knights who functioned somewhat as knights serving under him. Jedi were known to hold a religion and have special powers via the Force. Among those knights were Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, and Kenobi's student Darth Vader (a separate person, and his actual name).
Anakin had an actual brother, Owen, who resided on Tatooine, and it's fair to say that Anakin could have been raised on Tatooine also. (Perhaps Tatooine was at least in one time under the control of the House of Organa or was land granted to the Skywalker family?)
Something changed in the Empire, and the Clone Wars may have had a part in it, but Obi-Wan says that Darth Vader "helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights". This tells us that the empire was an established regime when Darth Vader betrayed the Jedi, leaving the date of the regime change from the old Republic a mystery (though Episode 4 tells us that the last remnant of it has been removed with the dissolution of the Senate). It seems likely that the existence of the Jedi Knights with their powers were considered a threat to the Empire, and so were hunted down by one of their own to eliminate the threat of systems breaking off and declaring their independence. A singular Emperor isn't named over this time period either, which makes it possible that more than one Emperor served over that time.
Wow , very interesting , but i think its implied that the jedi knights and the old republic were related somehow
@@darkul08 Yeah kind of like when Obi-Wan says something kind of hinting at "For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic" ;)
Sounds very....Sohei.
Basically Japanese monks originally intended to guard temples in times of conflict and ended up working for local governments,then they fought other temple's Sohei.When I first heard it,I immediately guessed they're the inspiration for the Jedi.
Well originally it was supposed to be just one movie which is why it has those elements missing. When they had to make it a trilogy thing that were left open had to be filled then it went from being a trilogy to having a prequel and we know how the rest of the story goes
It sounds like the gene Gesserit
35 years before A New Hope makes more sense, considering the fact that Obi-Wan looks like he's in his 70s, not 50s.
I was personally more fond of 25 honestly
Maybe he's just really unhealthy, I wouldn't see him getting that much good nutrition and skin care as a hermit on a poor desert planet
According to the ROTJ annotated screenplay, Anakin was in his sixties and Obi was in his seventies. Anakin being about 10 years younger than Ben.
Well Sir Alec was actually 58 at the time believe it or not.
@@wannabehistorian371 damn
I remember hearing a rumor when I was young that the clones were the product of a Mandalorian Warlord trying to bring back the glory of Mandalore.
Obviously suspect, but could have been a cool idea.
We *sort of* got that...?
That sounds pretty cool.
That could have been badass
Imagine if Pre Visla took the time of Viceroy Gunray
Well Jango was a former mandalore as was Spar (Alpha ARC, so ya know)
The "real" version is more interesting, but a lot more difficult to communicate on screen due to all the politics involved. I think the idea of clones facing the government would have been simpler and would have allowed the films to focus more on characterization and actual battles, but I appreciate the greater depth we got from the prequels.
Patrick B yeah I see. However I love the concepts brought up in the Clone Wars series, it seems the closest to the original vision.
If you want to see it, look up Banditincorperated's What the Prequels could have been series.
But what possible motivation could they have given the clones for existing? And how else would they have tied that to the sith and the empire?
Correction, not the prequels but The Clone Wars TV show. The prequels did little to nothing for the era. The clones were mindless killing machines in the movies but TCW made them real characters which adds more layers to their betrayal later on. Plus it also made politics in star wars actually fun and interesting to watch like the Padme episode with the famous Palpatine speech at the end.
@@ether2275 as much as it added layers to the betrayal it also removed far more by adding the implant that forced them to follow order 66.
Just be happy he didn't say. The Flood Wars.........Emperor Gravemind
Talon9390 if there was a flood wars they wouldn't even be alive.
Forerunners: Hahaha! The mantle of responsibility is ours!
Humans: You fool you have no idea what's coming... darn it.....
Precursors: Let's remind you who is in charge here...
Forerunners: Pssh... we nearly wiped you out, hey siri I mean Mendicant Bias take care of this
Mendicant Bias: Yes master
Primordial Mind: Heyyyyyy :P
Mendicant Bias: -ERROR- KILL ALL FORERUNNERS
Gravemind: That was easy
Forerunners: Oh fu- *
+Dranoel Arios HAL 9000 ( don't be mean OB ) lol.
You confused Offensive Bias and Mendicant Bias. Mendicant Bias was the original, Offensive Bias was made to specifically counter Mendicant Bias
Jacob Jordan My bad thanks for pointing that out I guess I edit it then :)
I prefer the Clone Wars we got. I like how “clone” refers not only to the Clonetroopers but also to the droids who were all made in a factory and indistinguishable from one another. The “clone” in “Clone Wars” is interesting as it highlights a unique form of warfare: where the soldiers can be produced in factories are are the definition of expendable (in a cold logic sort of way).
Good point.
That freaking music at the end while we watch Fives die. Stuff is emotional
Caleb Sevick Do you know what song that is? I need it!
It's called resonance by HOME
Kurama Thanks man, you're a real life saver :)
Lol im literally laughing my ass. Thanx dude u made my day. But seriously what u say is so true..
When I first heard the line it made me think of two or more factions using cloned soldiers to fight each other. I also imagined it was multiple distinct conflicts given the use of the plural "wars".
When you here “Clone Wars” you expect a war against clones or between clones, but not a war utilizing clones against a robot army. So yeah, I get why no one of the EU authors got it “right”.
The Jedi fighting a war against clones would have been way more interesting.
Also, I think original trilogy stormtroopers should have been clones. That's my Luke is a little short for a stormtrooper.
And making Boba Fett a clone too.
To be honest it couldn't have played out any better once George actually got around to writing the prequels. The fact that he came up with the whole Sidious creating two opposing armies and playing them against each other is endlessly fascinating and gave us what, imho, is the best piece of star wars media ever created; the clone wars tv show.
You mean the multimedia project
@@clonetrooper2003I know right. Hey I like TCW but it’s got a lot of bad episodes but a decent amount of good. I can’t think of one bad Republic comic issue.
@@darthmaul4773 ditto
@@clonetrooper2003 They completely butchered Grievous and the villains minus Maul and Ventress kinda suck. I actually came up with a story where Grievous during the CW killed 5 ARC Troops, a Clone Commando Squad, and 7 Jedi in defense of his homeworld.
@@darthmaul4773 yeah
Man, I remember first watching Ep 4, and listening to those throwaway lines about the clone wars and being intensely curious about it. I'm glad they were so greatly explored. Honestly, I'm glad with what we got. The whole 'psychopathic superhuman clone' idea sounds way too similar to the whole Eugenics War thing from Star Trek.
The craziest rumour I remember hearing around the prequels was that we were going to find out that Ben Kenobi was a clone, because he was O-B-1 Kenobi, like the first clone of Ben or something and it was some sort of registry number.
Didn't happen but I always thought it was interesting.
Nice profile
CIS Fleet at Coruscant vs Imperial Fleet at Endor
VHSAlien The Imperium of man will crush both
OMG
+lancer737 no it did not it was 50/50 at most.
The CIS had thousands of ships at coruscant, the empire had around 30 star destroyers at endor..
VHSAlien I feel the CIS would win cause they may have less firepower on their capital ships, but they have so many more Starfighter than the imperials + there stronger than Ties
"Clone Wars" is misleading considering what it actually was. Could just as easily be called "Droid Wars"
The French and Indian war is misleading too. The war of the roses is misleading also. As is the war of the roses
@@jbo4547 The French and Indian War is so named because from the British POV, it was against French and Indians. The War of the Roses is so named because it was a war between the biggest houses in England, symbolised by roses. The "Clone Wars" in the PT weren't really against the clones (except from the CIS POV, but they used droids), and the issue wasn't cloning but political rights. If it was a real war it would more likely be called "the Seperatist War" or the even the Galactic Civil War.
@@Lazurath101 yes im aware of the history. I used them as examples cause it doesn't matter what the fucking war is called and wars have different names depending on what side you are on and whatnot.
What's miss leading also seems to be the fact it plural. Clone war compared to clone wars. Why isn't it truly called what it was a Sepatist War.
The Clone-Droid Wars is not as catchy
I love the clone wars we got but I also love these versions of Star Wars where we never quite know what reallly happened before the first movie it's incredibly interisting to me
I liked RedLetterMedia’s suggestion if having an outside force invading with a clone army, and the republic at the time then having to press its own citizens into a Grand Army Of their own as they lacked the large scale cloning facilities (or wide scale droid deployment) that the Clone side had.
In that example the Clones simply pouring out more and more and grinding down the natural-born volunteer and conscript armies of the Republic would lead to a more militarized society overall, and open a natural avenue for the Sith to subtly seize power by giving the government more and more control until it became an autocracy. It would’ve also highlighted the suffering the war inflicted on people away from the front lines.
I know the TV show expanded on things and individualized the Clones a bit and showed the CIS oppressing people, but it really didn’t fix the underlying problem of showing the stress on the Republic as a whole. It’s still Grow-A-Guy vs Robot Men- on the grand scheme of things, you can still basically just make more.
That and the Republic planets looked absolutely fine.
i don't like the tv series, the war shiukd have been like the opening scroll of episode 3 heroes and villians on both sides, evil every where. i felt the cartoon villianised the CIS too much and was too simpitheitic of the republic
I could see what you're describing happening on individual planets, probably isolated ones that the Empire wanted to rule, between the trilogies. Palpatine has some aging veterans of the clone wars that have seen too much and need to die, and he has some bad batches of spaarti flash clones that are 2 cans shy of a rampage.
He sees some isolated planets in the outer rim territory that he wants to annex but cheaply, and preferably with the support of the people.
He gives bad intel between the aging fett clones and the crazy assed flash clones so that they wind up attacking innocent villages and each other.
This makes a mini clone wars on the planet. Lots of civilians die, their military, willpower, and resources are depleted, and the original batches of liability clones have nearly exterminated each other. The planet cries for a savior.
In flies the Empire to save everybody by finishing off the last few liability clones that they wanted to get rid of anyway and they are received as saviors and liberators by the populace, yearning for the empire's promises of order and security and very open to the idea of signing up to serve the empire to get away from an isolated planet of bad memories. Even if the planet was still hostile to the empire, they would be very softened up and ripe for the taking after surviving their own mini clone war.
The empire might even be able to pin it on the rebels.
This is where opposing stories in the EU get validated, as it seemed like the clone wars were stopped by the empire from their POV, esp if they were isolated and later indoctrinated.
Also the Empire during this inbetween trilogies stage might try to do that with leftover battle droids-either that they had captured, that they had given to mafia cartels, or droid militias that simply had not received the shut down order but could be controlled indirectly to soften up a hostile or vulnerable populace and in the mean time destroy themselves.
Very cost effective.
The thing is about the Clone Wars is that it's a fake war manufactured to feel real. The clones were there to make the citizens feel like it's someone else's war and thus they don't need to protest against the government for a corrupt war. As long as it's someone else's war, nobody is going to force Palpatine out of office for abuse of power. It's only when the war is over and you realize that those troops that fought the war for you have turned against you that you realized you sacrificed your responsibilities for security and now the Empire has full control over you without actually harming you.
To be fair, TCW was pretty bad at portraying how badly the Republic was affected by the Clone Wars. It doesn't help that they don't lose that often in it.
You could even do the idea of republic agents being cloned as spies for the CIS
Honestly feel an invasion of the body snatchers arc with conspiracy elements would be fun
If the Kamini Clone uprising was the actual Clone war, I would've loved it. EP 1 is the fall of the Republic, start of the Kamino Clone uprising. EP 2 is the Clone War. EP 3 is the Empire solidifying its final form.
shut up
Might be getting something like that in bad batch
I always liked to think that the Clone Wars were a much bigger conflict than the, in comparison, on-and-off battles of the Galactic Civil War, one that lasted too long, and claimed too many lives in the galaxy, which would be instrumental to how the Empire was created out of desperate need for control and one of Anakin's motivations for turning to the dark side, because he felt the Jedi's ways and ideals of the Republic were too limited. As for the Jedi's place, Obi-wan is a volunteer for the army like a couple of other Jedi are, while another more traditionalist group of Jedi that Yoda leads chooses to not get involved and advises as many of their members from doing so. With the war being on a much more grand scale, the Jedi are spread thin and eliminated in the Clone War itself, removing a burden from the Empire having to purge the whole entirety of them towards the end of the war, and Vader only having to "hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights" and not complete genocide of a whole religion then and there because the war had already weakened them to begin with.
Made sense. I thought the wars were like the crusades -- a series of events that spanned a very long period of time. Living veterans would have fought in the final clone war. And yes, that conflict would have weakened the traditions of the Republic and given the preconditions for an Empire to rise instead. And I thought the fall for Anakin should have been along the lines of the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The Republic was corrupt, got lots of good people killed and the guilty are living large on fortunes amassed during the war. Anakin wanted to reform and felt the Jedi should join in the effort. The Jedi stood back and did nothing. Anakin became involved in such a way that the Jedi could no longer ignore it -- like a serving US general trying to interject himself into politics, this is simply unacceptable. It leads to confrontation and that horrible duel and the maimed Anakin becomes Vader. He still wants order and sees the wellbeing of the Empire as good but is willing to break quite a few eggs to make that omelet. The same way that a rancher is interested in the overall welfare of his herd but will cull sick individuals, slaughter a portion for market, etc. Blow up a planet to keep the rest in line, greater good served. Otherwise more planets might try to rebel and the equivalent of a dozen planetary populations could die putting down the conflict.
Your versions sounds almost exactly like the mandalorian wars from the old republic era,
Crusade against galactic invaders, Jedi split on wether to fight, Jedi weakened by years of fighting... remaining Jedi purged by those who fell to the dark side.
The mandalorians wars were based on this hypotethical clone wars if i remember correctly but im not really sure
Jesus this sounds so much better than the half assed stuff we got from the prequels.
@@MrSwabisan
Agreed. If there are ever Star Wars retellings in the future, this would be pretty interesting for one.
I like the way 'Anthony' claims George Lucas never changes his mind. Has he seen the special additions?
Don't forget even when George was writing the prequels he changed his mind. Jar Jar was going to be more involved in episodes 2 & 3, but due to the backlash he got George rewrote it so he had a smaller role.
Jar Jar didn't even have any lines in episode 3.
@@TheBohobemeister Well, he says " 'scuse me" to the Twi'lek Senator, Orn Free Taa.
@@baschdiro8565 I could've sworn he didn't talk in Revenge of the Sith.
@@TheBohobemeister In the scene where Anakin, Obi-wan return with Chancellor Palpatine to the Senate, they are greeted by a couple of Senators, including Padmé, Orn Free Taa, Mas Amedda and Jar Jar Binks. The Senators congratulate the Jedi for rescuing the Chancellor and then move on into the building, while Anakin hugs Padmé, as they have not met for some months and Padmé tells him, that she is pregnant.
When the Senators are leaving in the total shot, you can hear a deep voice saying "Watch it!", which gets replied by "'Scuse me!", clearly Jar Jar's Voice.
I have not seen the scene recently and there does not seem to be a clip on youtube, so maybe my description is somewhat off.
@@TheBohobemeister I don't really think thats him changing his mind. he was just a trying to make people happy.
So everybody basically thought that the clone wars was the star wars version of the eugenics war.
I love that episode of the Clone Wars that you had at the end. In my opinion those episodes were the best because they gave a human light to the clones and made them feel like more than just copies. To me those are the the most emotional episodes they made.
They did that in the first episode of Season 1. Yoda sat them down and even though the clones said that they look the same, Yoda thought differently. They may look the same, but their minds are different, which therefore makes them all different than one another.
You might like the republic commando books then (not cannon of course) but they go deep into the moral stuff involving clones and the perspective of clones during the war, I wish they were cannon but I guess I should be happy enough the commandos themselves are cannon lol
Or....they could have used human from the beginning instead of disposable clones.
At least they gave them some personality in the series but I always hated how generic and unhuman both sides felt (robots vs clones) in the movies.
That is a problen even in the OT, you never felt like the Storm Troopers or the rebels(exept the ones in episode VI) were more than disposable background props for the action scenes.
I think the problem is with Lucas writing style
Andy A I disagree.
I remember finding the history Timothy Zahn alluded to in the Heir to the Empire trilogy far more fascinating than what we got.
No doubt about it.
I always envisioned the Clone Wars as stemming from a rogue group of genetic engineers kidnapping people and aliens and creating thousands of modified clones from their DNA. The Clone Army would then cause havoc in the Galaxy, conquering planets and carrying out atrocities. The Jedi got involved but they too fell or were captured, allowing the geneticists to create clones of the Jedi. These Jedi were the elite warriors and commanders of the Clone Army, causing confusion on who the real enemies and villains were. The Empire was the response to the growing Clone Army threat and several decisive battles brought the destruction of the Clones and the geneticists. I always envisioned Ben Kenobi, Bail Organa, and Owen Lars fighting together as soldiers and/or mercenaries in the final battles, helping to end the Wars altogether, perhaps even defeating clones of themselves. But the fighting brought about painful decisions including the deaths of many innocents. This is why the Clone Wars are only acknowledged but never discussed in detail.
I had the same idea !
I like your version better than what we got.
Yep I have had very similar ideas.
3:06
"George never changes his mind"
Tell that to the fans who will never get their original Trilogy Theatrical cut.
It is AVAILABLE on DVD... it was written about 15 years ago in Star Wars Insider.... yet the biggest mystery to me remains, WHY people think the original versions of the OT have not been released. They have.
I think that tweet was a joke
As much as I love the Clone Wars I wish the Timothy Zann Clone Wars was still a thing as well.
Before the Prequels, I always imagined the Clone Wars took place 40 or 50 years before the original trilogy. Basically far enough in the past so that the humans who fought in the war were all old men by the time of the original trilogy (like Ben).
I also always imagined that the Clones were the enemy, probably an invading force.
Basically I always imagined what the EU writers believed.
I agree. And I think those types of ideas would have been more interesting than what we ended up getting in the prequel films.
They also did some retconning in the Clone Wars comics with the Morgukai. Basically, the Confederacy attempted to create its own clone army during the last days of the Clone Wars on Saleucami, using a jedi-hunting cult called the Morgukai as its template. They rapidly grew these clones and they became mentally unstable, much like the clones in the Thrawn Trilogy. The Morgukai clones were definitely one attempt to clarify Zahn's version of the clone wars within the narrative
I believe they also attempted the same with the early clone stormtroopers. Which after growing a faster rate starting attacking imperial troops and planets which led to the empire relying on conscription. From essential guide to warfare.
For anyone that doesn't know the clone wars tv show fixes the issue of bland soldiers with a lack of personality (for both clones and droids) but I just wanted to point out in the OT George Lucas treated the infantry soldiers the same way, as disposable and expendable with 90% of them not having any hints of personality but we think "oh they're human they must have personality" when in fact most of them were shown to have much less character compared to all the clones AND DROIDS in the CW and PT (which includes C3PO and R2 than all the working droids plus battle droids and clones). Also for the Jedi to be wiped out efficiently any other way than what was portrayed would have been a bit underwhelming/unbelievable (though maybe more cunning) and this way also showed how much of a mastermind Palpatine was with incredible foresight (not sure if that was one of George Lucas's direct intentions though it does seem that way when watching AOTC it just needed to be further explained as it was in Darth Plageius). Lastly, Star Wars is a sci-fi universe so it makes sense for armies to be made out of droids or clones to limit sentient casualties if you have the technology (which is an ethical concern raised in the CW tv show a lot of times and makes you wonder if the clones are people then doesn't that mean the separatists value and take care of life more than the Republic?). This also makes it more tragic when you see a clone die on screen as he did so next to his literal brother and comrade who he grew up with (which does provoke a visual emotional response as you can see them spare a glance at their fallen friend, despite their programming, but can't-do anything otherwise they would die too) meaning he will never forget the event and wonder if this fight is their fight. In the end, whilst they were just an excuse to make the battles on a grander scale for the new movies while being disposable (though again that was patched up and they were made better in the CW tv show) the OT did handle it's troops the same way just a lot less effectively due to the lack of special effects. Because of all this, I would argue though that both the clones and the droids have more personality than the average rebel and stormtrooper in the OT. This also raises massive ethical concerns and discussions (explained in a reply below)for the PT CW tv show and Rouge One which is what I think Sci-fi is about in contrast to the clear concise tale of good an evil in the OT and ST (though that doesn't mean their bad or necessarily worse films as star wars is supposed to be viewed as a whole universe rather than split up into films tv shows books and comics)
Revan's Shield
Hmm…
The Separatists were right to mistrust the republic.
Dooku broke it down literally to Obi Wan.
Mofo's didn't listen and the Separarists were played by the one mofo they trusted. Who was the mofo they didn't know to mistrust.
Darth Sid(ious) Viscous.
That is *not* the point here! The drama of an armed conflict isn't just about the personalities of its participants but other associated factors. When the Rebels or stormtroopers die, you realize they might have their families out there, people who would not just mourn their loss but actually find themselves in a harsh predicament as a result. Nothing of the sort applies to the clones, let alone the droids.
Also, no matter how you look at it, a clone is just not another unique human being. When Biggs died in the Battle of Yavin, the Rebellion lost one of its most promising young pilots. When an ARC trooper dies in battle, he may just be replaced by another, bred in exactly the same fashion. Even though their personalities won't be carbon copies of one another, an overwhelming majority of Jango traits will never be shaken by the clones.
yarpen26 Just addressing your points to say; the clones were each other's family as they spent their whole life together so when one bit the dust he did so right next to his brother. Although they're engineered to not sort of care and continue fighting (which is explored in the clone wars) they still sponsor a reaction which is a brief look towards their fallen comrade out of respect (seen in AOTC ROTS and CW tv show) while still firing simply because they cant afford to stop fighting or they will die too. Despite this in the clone wars tv show, some clones become really close to each other and when one dies it evokes a raw emotional action out of rage. Also, the Republic created a disposable clone army raises a lot of ethical concerns about the clones having free will, the same value of life and choice (which the clones are conflicted about when coming across one of their deserters in an episode and the rules are to kill him) and if they should even be fighting this war which to me is what sci-fi is about raising moral and ethical concerns. The OT was just a blockbuster with a clear concise story of good an evil while the PT, CW and Rouge One muddies this view. Admittedly the same can't really be said about them but I'll just ask a question if you could only save one of these beings from death who would it be; R2D2 or Jek Porkins?
As for your second paragraph the clones were affected and became better soldiers with experience (as shown by the domino squad arc which coincidently involves the episode called ARC troopers) which is why the had to be grown with accelerated aging and not simply made so when a clone is lost it is nothing short of a tragedy and no one will ever be able to exactly replace them but if one were to try it would take all the expensive resources the Kaminoians use (including Jango Fett's DNA which after his death begins to thin creating less and less skilled clones) their facility and brains and then at least 10 years (for the first batch) of tutoring and patience. Also if you havent seen teh clone wars I would higly reccomend it as it answers all those points about clones anyone can have and it also shows te relationships clones had with each other and what happened when one dies (just look at 99's death, an old cast off defected clone trying to help his brothers fight)
Just one other point that makes the whole clone thing not making as big an emotional impact as a regular drafted army. One of the major tragedies of any war, especially those waged in the modern era, is the sheer human loss factor. People look back at the close ones they lost and are like "If it wasn't for the war s/he would still be alive". All these who died deliver a powerful blow to the economy, since most of them are young and able-bodied males. In both WWI and WWII, hundreds of thousands of workers and clerks had to leave their posts in order to fight, thus putting a further strain on an already struggling war economy.
In the case of the Clone Wars, the Republic pretty much just got herself a disposable army for free. Faceless people who would be useless for pretty much anything other than fighting. In fact you could say that from an economic viewpoint the more clones actually *died* the better things would stand afterwards, as they would have served their purpose while no longer needing to be fed and clothed. And you can see it not just in the movies but in the show as well, how everybody always jokes around, like the war seems to have almost zero impact on the way people conduct their daily lives, how the writers struggle to make you think whatever is happening is actually anything to be worried about and yet fail to provide any visual proof of it.
Just watch the Plinkett review of AotC, he goes into detail on how the Clone Wars could have otherwise played out in order for the viewer to find it engaging and tragic. Damn, I still can't believe how much Lucas botched one of the coolest mysteries in the entire SW universe. One of the many reasons why no matter how much I disagree with plenty of choices made in the Disney movies, like they rehash much of the original trilogy instead of being creative, how they're going for Mary Sue-like characters or just the fact they release way too many of them, I'm _never_ going to complain about the fact that Lucas has no longer any say in the way SW is shaped. The guy had his chance and he blew it spectacularly.
I love how towards the end of the video you have the happy up-beat music I the background as we watch fives get gunned down by Foxx
The idea of the clone wars being almost a zombie apocalypse type thing, where mindless clones where released onto the galaxy seems like it would be awesome
The Clone Wars era is the best time for Star Wars for SOOO many reasons. If only Disney would actually acknowledge the fact that the Prequels do exist.
But they do..
The Old Republic era is the best. But the Clone Wars era is second best, yeah.
ImpalaDude1969 They can do so much with them I like the new movie but they’re just rehashing things from the original
Triology Why don’t they make a side movie in the time period in the prequel they have so much things to draw from since each episode has a time gap in between. How cool would it be if we saw a movie after revenge of the south with a new empire and early Vader
Dangerous Joy Clone Wars does a great job of making the clones unique and giving them various personalities. So it can be done for the Republic.
Sure the CIS are just indistinguishable robots, but the stormtroopers and rebel fighters weren't much better...
Overall, Star Wars has never been good at humanizing troopers. Mostly because they are never the focus. The clone wars is no better or worse at it than the rest of SW.
ImpalaDude1969 They do but the prequel haters are annoying as fuck. So blame those star wars fans disinterest for the prequel era.
As a kid growing up with Star Wars before the prequels were ever announced, I remember being unsure about what exactly the clone wars were. It was definitely a mysterious part of the lore, and to me it did seem like it was the clones who were supposed to be the "bad guys" originally. That maybe that was how the galactic empire took control over the old Republic, as a response to the attack from the clone army.
Totally agree.
Until the prequel trilogy I thought the clone wars were a number of conflicts between republican factions who all employed clones, so a civil war within the republic with a huge amount of factions waiging war against each other, creating and betraying alliances etc. (Therefore it would be "Clone Wars" instead of just one "Clone War".) The Jedi Knights would be actual knights, like warriors living by a certain code of conduct, a chivalry of sort, and being vassals of lokal governments or feudal lords. (That would be how Leia could refer to Obi-Wans service to her father during the clone wars.) The Jedi would of course try to side with more justified factions, trying to either fight the more destrcutive ones, or to negotiate peace where possible .
From that chaotic state Palpatine would take over as someone who restores order by creating a strong enough alliance so that he could subdue everyone else.
So, I imagined it somewhat like the state of the republic in Knights of the Old Republic 2.
Dalek Empire (post Time War) against Entire Star Wars Galaxy United.
(Time travel not used)
I'm not sure if Star Wars weapons, even lightsabers, could even scratch the Daleks' shields. And I'm pretty sure the Daleks were able to use a single starship to destroy a planet with missiles. Nothing in the Star Wars Universe, even the Vong, can survive such power.
Ranzen Pangilinan darth nihilus
The scavenged empire seen in Series 1, or Davros' New Dalek Empire? The Series 1 empire would lose, but the NDE have the reality bomb so......
Who Cares About User Names? 1 fair point depends if some powerful enough sith destroyed the bomb before it gets detonated.
HK-47, with as much prep time as he needs and whatever resources he can get in that time > the entire dalek empire
A kid in my school way back in the day got it right (early 90s). He argued that the stormtroopers were clones, because they all sounded the same and the empire had basically an infinite amount of human troops, way more than any other aliens, and that he thought the clone wars was essentially the empire using clones to take over the galaxy.
5:41 WATCH THOSE WRIST ROCKETS!
Sandwich_masterX THEVE BROUGHT IN THE SUPERS
Droidika I'm on em
FOR THE REPUBLIC!!!
Kim-jong-un the supreme vs vader and palpatine
ScopeN0Ob LOL
ScopeN0Ob
Lol
Supreme leader snoke is Kim Jong un
already dead he would be force chocked from 1 quintilion kilometers
In a book called "The Star Wars Trilogy Scrapbook: The Rebel Alliance" (1997) by Mark Cotta Vaz, it described the Clones Wars as the Republic defeating the "Evil Mandalore Warriors". Quite a turnaround! On page 10
I’VE BEEN WONDERING THIS FOR SO LONG, I CAN’t wait to watch the video.
Makes you realize just how brilliant the writing is in the prequels. None of the other EU writers could even fathom that it would be the GOOD GUYS who use the clones and then become the empire through internal politics as opposed to losing a war.
Because that idea is simply retarded af.
Oh yeah, so fucking brilliant for Lucas to come up with that idea so children can think they're being fed some ambitious shit instead of a shittyass conflict which makes no sense.
Let's analyse: the other faction is led by corporate assholes who for some reason manage to rally half the galaxy behind them, in spite of being absolutely ruthless and having no agenda of their own other than do everything a dude in a cloak tells them to. Oh right, the Republic is _corrupt,_ they hammer this shit all throughout the prequels. That's probably why Coruscant is one of the cleanest places ever and everything seems to run just fine. But I guess if they ignored the invasion of Naboo I'm going to ally with the same guys who invaded Naboo in order to... wait, what am I even talking about?
But okay, we got ourselves some free clone army ordered under more than suspicious circumstances. Let's not investigate into it. Palpatine is such a genius he predicted everybody around him, most notably the Jedi, being complete and utter morons. And, once the war is practically won, everybody will cheer for the Republic being replaced by a bloodthirsty dictatorship because that's what successful wars usually bring about: undermining the trust in the government which conducted said successful war. I'm all for pledging total allegiance to the shady asshole who is now telling me how evil all the Jedi who had just succeeded in bringing the war to an end are. It's not like the guy had already ruled the Republic for more than three consecutive terms and last night had a lightsaber duel with Samuel L. Jackson which was witnessed by at the very least five million people flying past his office at this time.
Beef Fishstick the idea of the good guys becoming bad is common to all versions of the Clone Wars. The main differences are the nature of the 'Wars' and the role of the 'clones'.
So earlier versions naturally assumed that the clones were somehow integral to the breakout of violence, or the character of the war, and that there were multiple 'Wars' rather than one civil war. That's a natural extrapolation of the phrase 'Clone Wars' and the early Star Wars martial for fans explained that the Empire was created because the Republic was in chaos and an ambitious Senator named Palpatine (or he and a coterie of allies) seized the main chance and converted the Republic to a dictatorship.
That's quite different from an 1860's style 'Civil War'.
Far from being too political, the prequels were not political enough. What the hell was causing this war and what was the condition of the Galaxy outside of the actual battlefield?
The 'Clone Masters' plot would have made sense without needing any exposition.
An early comic book had a flashback to Obi Wan fighting pirates on a cruise ship - law and order was breaking down in the late Republic, prior to the creation of an Empire.
I'm glad you enjoyed the prequels, but personally I think the use of the American Civil War as the model for the creation of a dictatorship was a mistake. As the previous reply noted, that scenario shouldn't displace faith in the successful institutions that won the war, and didn't result in a dictatorship in real life.
The clones themselves were extremely cool, though.
yarpen26 lol what? Coruscant is not one of the cleanest places ever, not at all. Look at depictions from 1313 or The Clone Wars Show. Yes the upper city which actually sees the light of day is very posh and expensive, but actually the rest of the planet which you don’t see because it’s under the surface is completely run-down and filthy. Only the rich elite and politicians live in the skyscrapers on the surface, most citizens live below.
Who are you referring to? Palpatine?
Let me break it down for you, it’s not confusing at all.
Palpatine starts out as a Senator from Naboo in Episode 1. He wants to elevate his status to Chancellor, but in order to do that he needs to first remove Chancellor Valorum. So he orders his cronies in the Trade Federation to take Naboo hostage. The Neimodian Senators deny all claims to this Trade Federation attack, and because of the legislative process Valorum’s hands are tied. There isn’t sufficient evidence to send an army to aid the Naboo. However, this makes Valorum unpopular for his inaction, so Palpatine coerces the Queen to suggest to the Senate a vote for a bode of no confidence, because she thinks another Chancellor might listen and help her people. Palpatine doesn’t actually care about Naboo, the entire thing is just an excuse so he can oust the current Chancellor and take his place.
CBfrmcardiff I see what you mean with regard to “clone wars,” but the reason it is plural despite being the same one war is because you have battles across the entire galaxy between tons of different systems. It wasn’t just Republic vs. CIS but all the indigenous life forms had to become involved, as we see in the tv shows.
The politics of the prequels was that we should question authority and never centralize too much power, or we won’t need to worry about fighting a dictator trying to invade us because we’d have already created a dictator of our own. The Republic was so afraid of outside threats that they made the Chancellor in essence a king. Before he was officially “the Emperor,” he basically had almost all the same powers anyway because of the “special emergency powers” he’d been holding since the beginning of the war. That’s why Mace and Yoda were discussing in the third film that if the Chancellor does not return power to the Senate after the destruction of General Grievous (end of the war), he should be removed from office. We also see several senators, especially in the deleted scenes, form their own secret organization to try to decrease the Chancellor’s power from within the legislative system. Among those in it were Senator Padme Amidala, Senator Bail Organa, and Senator Mon Mothma, the latter two of whom would go on to become founding members of the Rebel Alliance.
I think Padme’s line “So this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause” best sums up the message of the prequels.
When the Chancellor first received the emergency powers, everyone loved him because he was taking decisive action against the Separatists. It is akin to an expanse of the President’s use of Executive Orders in the real world. When the President does it to promote something your side wants, nobody has a problem with the overreach of power. But the problem is once you’ve established that authority can have that kind of power, they don’t stop. So they will continue to use the same power even after you don’t want them to anymore. That’s the danger of an overreach in power.
You may or may not have caught on to this, but actually the prequels were inspired by the War in Iraq under the Bush administration.
Post war UNSC vs Skyline aliens
Best clone wars is the one we have
Preach it
Yup
The Clones as the enemy would have made more sense dramatically. "Real" beings must defend themselves from clones, beings that are almost like machines, made specifically for one thing: war.
What we got was both sides using disposable soldiers equalling to not as much potential drama and emotional investment than the former. They did make the best of what George Lucas gave them.
During the events of the Clone Wars tv show let us begin to see the clones as real humans and not mindless soldiers, take the Domino Squad arc for example
TheSly442
Clones may be genetically engineered, BUT
They are still humans. A person's personality does not derive from dna, but from the person's experience and parents.
So clones are seperate people that just look the same.
Dude, I've been tracking SW since '77. -- There was no mistake about the nature of the Clone wars. Content authors in the EU literally took it upon themselves and drew upon Flash Gordon for inspiration; because it ties in with the Empire from the OT and Lucas was 'mum' about specific details outside that. We've had a rough outline of the Prequels, from Lucas, as of 1981 (through various years). The only thing we ever knew about the Clone wars, was that it was a clone army vs death bots. -- Which was pretty much the basis for the Dark Forces video game. Closer to 1998, the Old Republic, etc.. began to get fleshed out in various ways.
That whole scene in Obi wans hut, on Tatooine; establishes two of the most enduring mysteries in Star Wars. The Clone Wars (which we now know) and the nature of the force. Even though Obi wan spells out the latter, succinctly. -- the stars in their universe, radiate an energy source that is intrinsically bound up with the cycle of life there. -- We didn't know how species were able to connect with it. In the PT we learn its due to a unique aspect of their DNA (midichlorians, a symbiotic conduit), also seeded by the same stars. -- Matter & Energy, being the fundamental properties of all life.
So even though 'Star Wars' isn't the original title of Lucas' saga. The deeper meaning, isn't "a battle in the stars", but becomes "a battle for the stars", as in "the struggle for life". Which almost no one saw coming.
I really like the idea that the clones, which you would normally assume were evil, actually ended up fighting on the side of he "heroes". It's a creative idea.
I respect the original Star Wars a lot but my favourite period is by far the Clone Wars.
Thank god this isn’t the clone wars we got. An army of clones attacking planets n shit sounds like some fucking dc/marvel superhero villain shit. The clone wars we had and how it ended is perfectly fine imo.
Dangerous Joy Because in the end those tube babies were the downfall of those "super heroes" with help from the droids.
PakolaiShow I can tell that you don't read DC or marvel. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about
Great topic! I personally had never really thought about the previous plans for the clone wars.
I really love these behind the scenes lore videos. You should make more of these and have a playlist.
movies aside I really like the clone wars, especially in the context of sidious machinations as fleshed out in the plagueis book.
My only issues is that its only a 19 years before Endor. Everyone forgets the Jedi and the fact it undercuts the power of the empire as its reigned was so short its irrelevant. It also under cuts the rise of the Sith, plot for 1000 years, rule for 19.
I know why Lucius did it, because Vader and obi won needed to be alive for both.
marcus7564 19 years before Yavin. 23 before Endor. Empire was defeated one year later, reigned for 24 years.
@@BlindJedi the Empire is around for such as short time it does not really count, even on Earth time scales let alone the 1000 year peace of the republic.
marcus7564 I suppose you have a point. 24 years seems like such a short time. Especially when compared to the old Sith empire and legends that rained for 1000 years.
my take was always that the Empire was so significant not because of how long it lasted, but rather the scale of it, being the first "true" Galactic Empire, and being the first time in history where the Sith actually succeeded in wiping out the Jedi (at least the most significant purge of Jedi that has ever occurred). this is also why i never liked the some of the expanded stories that imitate the movies by having the Jedi face near-extinction and there being some massive Sith Empire. it undermines the plot and impact of the movies. because of this, i am always a bit conflicted about the "Old republic"-era in Star Wars.. on one hand, i love it and find it incredibly intriguing, but on the other hand it also too often borders a bit too much into "fan-fic"-territory that doesn't make much sense when put next to the core movie-canon
I do think the impact on jedai history is important, its unprecedented. I think however the impact on your average person and planet wouldn't be that great, in the scheme of even 1000 years. I mean in our context how many Europeans know of the hugely impactful revolutions of 1848.
That moment when you realized The Clone Wars idea before the prequels were basically lifting from the Butlerian Jihad from Dune.
That was really well s
Done. I didn't know much about the per clone war, clone war. Thanks for making this.
Very good video. I had always wondered what the clone wars was like,as a kid,and was disappointed when episode 2 revealed them,but was happy when they created the series to flesh it out
Any more videos like this? I like to know more about the EU's interpretation of various events that were only hinted at in the original trilogy but were given vastly different explanations in the prequels.
A New Hope does make it sound like the Clone Wars happened a lot more than 19 years ago. It sounds like the Empire has been around a lot longer, and the Jedi have been gone for so long that most people living in the galaxy don't even know that they existed. Watching the prequels and realising that most of the people in A New Hope were actually alive BEFORE the Empire, when there were tens of thousands of Jedi and the force was common knowledge, this seems impossible.
*18 years*
Do you know who was the president in your country 19 years ago?
Or did u know that the most children who born after 1992 don't know what the sowjetunion is? ( at least here in germany) So please ... historically is this quite possible. There are many more examples but I don't want to write all down.
I agree it seems very foolish to me that Palpatine's dictatorial empire will only last for 19 years
So much time planning the fall of the republic for nothing
It should have lasted at least 30 years
If the empire is supposed to be the worst Star Wars regime ever
@@BlyUehara37 How long last the Empire from Hitler ? or the from Mussolini? or even the from Caesar?
What is with you ? Do you think Dictorships hold on for Generations? If you do then you are doomed.
It’s just crappy writing
Yes finally..
Thank you!! Geese I've been waiting for a video like this.
Thank you for making this video, I was actually thinking about this the other day
Zerg invasion of Reach, with Overmind
Starcraft needs more representation
MAKE THIS HAPPEN
i mean the zerg are described to be numberless, and including the fact that they were led by the best leader(overmind + cerebrates > kerrigan + broodmothers, dehaka, stukov) and considering they can throw down a hive cluster wherever and get infinite reinforcements, it should be an easy win
Generic Human Just like zergs on rust
Generic Human that also means infinite biomass for the flood to infect. Unless Abathur could spin a genetic sequence that created an immunity to flood infection I doubt Zerg could win. It would be difficult for Abathur to even perform any tests on any flood forms as a single infection form could infest an entire Leviathan and the Zerg only have biological containment systems which a flood form could easily infect.
That Fives death scene at the end though, RIP.
Honestly probably my biggest gripe with the prequel worldbuilding is the Sepratist armies only using droids...
It would have been much more interesting if the CIS was a patchwork of mostly Alien armies with perhaps some droids spread across the outer rim.
It would have felt a lot more impactful in terms of the Republic’s actions & we would have seen how other species might have different forms of warfare.
The resentment of these alien species that had their independence stripped from them would carry over nicely into the rebellion.
Mandalorian merc companies & Hutt syndicates could’ve been like third parties in the war too taking advantage of the chaos for their own gain.
I honestly wouldn't say the clone wars were handled very messily at all. There's a clear motive and manipulation behind the scene, a real build up of factors, and an explosive beginning of the war. It remains War on a massive scale previously unseen in Star Wars films, but makes it much more interesting (imo) having the clones fight for the republic rather than against. The sheer depth and scale of the universe we see expanded is an actual masterwork, no matter what the quality of the movies themselves are.
"What were the clone wars before they were the clone wars?" - Ecks 2017
Be thankful for Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Dave Filoni did great story telling and filled so many gaps.
Um, no, he didn't. The Clone Wars has some of the worst writing I've ever seen and literally screws up so much in EU canon. Also, Filoni was responsible for the abomination that is Ahsoka Tano. -_-
@@imyouralibi6208 I'm inclined to agree, though I like Ahsoka Tano as a character in isolation of her place in canon.
The multi media project was great and fits in much better in the timeline in between AOTC and ROTS than the cgi show
@@imyouralibi6208 stfu
@@loyalcompanion2104 wtf is the clone wars multimedia?
@@spideysg1163 the multi media project was the original Clone Wars canon before the 2008 series retconned everything. The multi media project included the 2003 Clone Wars show, comics published by dark horse, Republic Commando game and novels etc.
Dude... That scene at the end of the video with Anakin and the Clones... I never saw that episode. You know, that writing and animating is damn good because even though I couldn't hear what they were saying and the music was upbeat, I still almost cried watching that ;_;
The music of your video makes me come back every time
When Leia's hologram first mentions the Clone Wars in Episode 4 my 13 year old mind assumed the clones were indeed the bad guys in said war. Episode 2 was the "a-ha" moment when it was clear the clones were necessary to create the "Grand Army of the Republic".
I remember reading about a version of the clone wars when I was younger that had nothing to do with clone soldiers. In fact, it was a war centralized around one side protecting and one side hunting down dormant Palpatine clones who would be “activated” if anything ever happened to the real Palpatine. The fear being that there was still one clone never found that wasn’t destroyed.
I think that was the Dark Empire trilogy, which was a comic book sequel to Episode 6 and basically the EU equivalent of the sequel trilogy. I think it had nothing to do with the Clone Wars, but I could be wrong. Pretty cool comic though.
yeah that's the expanded universe sequels to the OT, which comes much further down the timeline and is not related to the "Clone Wars" premise
Thank you! I've always wondered about this, but I've never been able to find any information
I've wanted a video like this forever. I can't ever find info like this before the Prequels.
I remember hearing that the clones were supposed to be Sith versions of the Jedi. That even originally Darth Maul was a Sith clone of Obi-one
N.B. it's Clone Wars, not Clone War, i.e., more than one. I imagined, let's say, the spread of cloning technology allowed many factions that didn't previously have the ability to raise armies to do so, leading to a series of wars: less like World War II and more like the Thirty Years' War, a long, confusing period of conflict between many factions with various goals. That probably doesn't work as a story, but it was never intended to be a story, only a back-story, and for that it works just fine.
Agreed. As with the Kamino uprising, what the EU legends described as the clone wars being put down by the Empire and the Empire being that planet's savior could still happen. Just make it a case by case planetary false flag operation (but to an isolated planet vulnerable to indoctrination, they could think it's everywhere). These "lesser clone wars" would happen just enough between trilogies, or even after being used by Imperial Remnant factions.
So what the EU describes could be done between trilogies on some outer rim or wild space planet(s).
They introduce clones that are either too old (or remember what it was like during the clone wars and republic) or too crazy to attack hostile planets (spaarti clones had a high chance of crazy rampages), and after most of the planet's military and liability clones have killed each other, in comes the empire. The planet will either see them as a savior and accept them or will foolishly choose to fight in it's weakened and vulnerable state. It's ripe for the Empire's picking either way.
I believe it is in the Star Wars Heir to the Empire audio book behind the scenes that Timothy Zahn mentions that all his references to the clone wars were extremely lucky in their wording that they didn't contradict with the direction that the prequels took the clone wars.
Me: realizing I genuinely enjoy your channel.
Also me: wondering why I'm not already subscribed.
The clones did actually attack the galaxy form the seperitists point of view as they attacked and intervened in a legal execution on geonosis
A Clone Wars 35 bby would better explain Obi-Wan's age difference between each trilogy.
Fair, but what about Luke and Leia?
Love the channel. Keep it up.
You really had to make me cry at the end there.
Next time: "The Eugenics War We Never Got".
I always thought the Clone Wars was either some bad guy using a bunch of clones to try and take over the galaxy either through invasion or by making body doubles of important people, or it was a war between 2 or more parties that both used clones to fight them.
I always imagined them as the enemy using clones to replace important people as stealthily as possible and trying to take things over from the inside while a conventional war was also going on.
I read of the Clone Wars back in 1997 or so. There was a PC games magazine with an article about Dark Forces II, which explained the world of the Empire and Rebellion, telling the story, that long ago the Old Republic was in conflict with the Spaarti cylinders masters. The technology was used to create armies, but some bad guys used it to clone the Jedi. The technology always led the clones to go mad eventually, thus the Jedi Clones would do crazy things and fall to the Dark Side. This part of the conflict placed much distrust towards the Order in the Society, and the war weakened the Republic, which in turn was used back then by Palpatine, who converted it to the Empire. According to old lore it happened many decades before ANH. The appearance of disfigured Emperor in ROTJ also suggested - in my opinion - that he was 100 years at least! Thus the Empire might have been in existence for half a century, or it felt that way...
neterwan way better then the clone wars we got
I Wish Disney gave us more Clone Wars Content. I mean like a Dooku comic
Blade The Bear Maybe when the new trilogy is over, they will link them a bit more. I liked the idea that a clone who knew about order 66 was frozen and thus couldn't warn others. He woke up a few years before ep 7 and joined the pirates we saw in Solo's ship. I'm disappointed that we didn't see him. I hope they make more links like that and it maybe why we didn't get a lot of CW yet.
They don’t own the rights
Robert Merrill They do
Dominic Moras We might see Knix again in the future. Maybe in the comics.
I love the star wars the clone wars series, the clones were one of the best part. Fives and Rex are some of the best characters in the entire show. The clones were so interesting because of the point "how are you your own person when everyone looks and sounds exactly like you".
The picture of the dog for your profile picture is halariously funny 😄 specially caues its in gold leader’s suit and helmet
It’s cool to see someone who listens to Home. You got some good music taste.
Colonial Marines vs UNSC Marines
good idea
Kenneth Kates Yet again. My idea
And yet again multiple people can have the same idea. If I see your's I will up vote it.
UNSC Marines would never have existed if it weren't for ALIENS and the Colonial Marines.
With that said, I mean come on the Pulse Rifle in ALIENS is far better than any comparable weapon the UNSC has.
Keep the likes at 117
The Clone Wars we never got seems mighty interesting.
That picture at 2:22 is awesome. I only recognise Kir Kanos and Carnor Jax, the two imperial guards right in the centre!
As a kid in the 70s we knew that the stormtroopers had something to do with the clone wars, we assumed they were all clones, “Aren’t you a little short for a stormtrooper?”
We also knew that they were based off of a bounty hunter, Boba Fett and that their armor was based off of his.
What could have been.... Might have been great.
@@JB-1138Prequel Hater #1 👆