Why Not Coaxial Warp Drive? (Star Trek Theory)
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
- Let's look at another faster than light propulsion discovered by the crew of the USS Voyager in the Delta Quadrant, the Coaxial Warp Drive.
What is it? How could it work and why the the crew not use it to get home?
Half of these get answered, and by that I mean that each gets half and answer.
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Coaxial Warp Drive was made obsolete by HDMI Warp Drive.
A wormhole is a tunnell from point A to point B, inside the tunnell is usually foreign to the universe, with different rules governing time, space and dimensions. Folding space is bending the fabric of space and time (like a blanket) until the two points A and B come together momentarily as point C while they occupy the same space and time.
Don't forget about the Composite Drive and the Component Drive. They are still around. Coaxial Warp is only obsolete on the outer portions of the galaxy, though. It is still widely used to travel about 95% away from central base, but this is slowly being replaced by Fiber Drives.
@osp80 Ssssh! Nobody talks about s-video drives. They are like the Betamax shields, or the HD-DVD torpedoes. They had their strengths, but if the Klingon Empire won't use them, did they even really exist?
@osp80 You stand alone, my friend. The Apple star system got so burned by that drive that they immediately turned completely xenophobic and refused to adopt any other technology or share their own. You can't even repair your own ship, anymore. If it breaks down, you have to get towed to the nearest "Genius Planet", where you get endlessly ridiculed about how you "flew your ship incorrectly" while they "upgrade your software"
I hear the new galaxy class 10 ship have the 5 g drive system .
Prolonged exposure to Coaxial Warp fields cause bubbles of subspace to form inside of plot holes and so the Federation banned it to protect the one thing that has kept the Federation from being destroyed time and time again.
Gallen Dugall Implying the Federation isn't eternal and invincible?
Section 31 would like to: Know your location.
The double meaning of " plot holes " cannot be underestimared......
'
I would love to explore 7 of 9's " plot holes " and " boldly go " right inside them , just to be sure . I mean she could be hiding a class 10 Orgasm Generator in them , that's serious tech . They can regenerate from a full discharge to 100 per cent in seconds at least 20 to 30 times leaving any male ( or female ) examiner totally paralized and even witnesses can suffer visual problems .
This is Pornhub isn't it ??? Oh dear I think I'm in a mirror Internet ......... maybe .
Them came the Burn
@@FedoReds88 a plot hole so massive that it almost completely destroyed Star Fleet's plot armor until an officer with near Mary-Sue amounts of plot armor could come from the past to restore it.
Its simple.
Writer 1: Hey i got a cool idea for a new alien engine tech that Voyager can use to get home
Writer 2: Yeah thats neat, we can use that, they wont actually get home though
Writer 1: Why not?
Writer 2: We are contractually obligated to write more seasons
Yeah, like three or four at the very least.
Since they utterly failed to take advantage of Voyager's setting and situation they probably would've been better off just skipping straight home and setting it in the aftermath of the Dominion War.
The reason is that Voyager forgot to save _coaxial warp drive_ to their main back up before doing a *ship reset* at the end of the week to repair any damage.
A groundbreaking technological advancement destroyed by a scheduled Windows update. Of course! This happens all the time!
The tech just got overwritten to make space for the Doctors opera database.
LCARS# copy startup-config to running-config
"Wait... did I write memory after that last warp configuration? Oh well, at least the hole in deck 7 is back to normal."
I like the idea the size/mass of the ship matters. I can see a post-Dominion War Starfleet equipping a squadron of Defiant Class ships with Coaxial Warp Drives for a limited range, rapid responds and deployment missions in emergency situations.
Exactly. This is perfect for smaller ships like Defiant-Classes, roundabouts, and even on Starfleet fighter craft and bombers! Hell, even other ships, like the Steamrunner, Norway, and Nova class ships could benefit using coaxial drives given they're not made for long range operations.
There's just so many tactical applications in using this form of FTL and can be used within a mass scale.
@@jaymikevillanueva1212 How much more volatile is it than creating a warp bubble though? Since we know standard Warp creates "tears" from one of the later episodes of TNG, what would literally bending space at certain points do to that
Logically, provided the warp drive system can create a warp field/fold/bubble which encompasses the entire craft, it shouldn't matter how massive or bulky it actually is. Also, don't forget that these warp-capable craft all have inertia-cancelling "dampers", which must essentially nullify some fairly significant physical properties and laws, including mass.
Pats roof of Voyager "yup, you can fit a ton of techno babble in this beauty"
Idea I wish they'd run with for coaxial warp in Voyager:
-Yes, coaxial warp works, and is reliable and stable now.
-Yes, it was implemented on a 16m long alien vessel, and a notably smaller Federation shuttle.
-Yes, the crew can reproduce the technology.
-No, they can't realistically scale the size of ship the drive works on.
-No, they can't realistically expand the range per jump beyond a certain point which leaves it functionally only superior to conventional warp for that specific range or less.
- *KEEP USING THE COAXIAL WARP EFFECT* but only on shuttles making short trips away from Voyager.
Star Trek "Self contained episodes" with ocassional, yet still powerful callbacks, where not conductive to such 'configuration management' story telling. SG-1, designed form outset as series, had terrific build up.
Unfortunately that leads to bringing the ship back home one box at a time.
@@piotrd.4850
Huh? That's bullshit, Stargate was a bit better about remembering previous 'tech of the week' or at least providing an in episode reason they couldn't have it (usually a highly contrived situation destroying it), but it still had tons of examples of useful shit that everyone just kind of forgets about, or that provides a really weak justification why it can't be used, or one that could be easily countered with another piece of tech they'd encountered before.
The most glaring example is that there is no way in HELL they can't have gotten access to a sarcophagus by a few seasons into the show and the side effects are ludicrously minor given the benefits and explicitly only even occur with chronic use. Like why isn't there one of those sitting in the SGC to revive people killed on missions? Well the answer of course is "muh drama", but the problem is it makes no logical sense.
Coaxial warpshuttles which could travel much faster than starships ... but are comparatively tiny so they have severely limited range, fuel, crew, cargo, supplies?
That would put an interesting twist on Trek shows.
Coaxial warpcouriers for carrying annoying diplomats and packages, freeing up flagships for important stuff.
Coaxial warpfighter strikes (launched from carrier starships).
Coaxial missiles/torpedoes/probes which can "instantly jump" to targets lightyears away.
Coaxial "short-range" purpose-built warships like the Defiant (which nominally operate near support vessels).
lmao....agreed. How about build 30 of them, and send everyone home and self destruct voyager after they peace out?
I really like the idea that it's too impractical for larger ships, it gives the writers the ability to use it occasionally to explain how people can escape from Federation capital ships.
Now the real question: was it Voyager or Demon-class copy Voyager in the episode? (provided the "Copy ship" was technically alive at the time to allow this question as possible)
that's going too deep..
O__O"
Oh my God the possibilities
this ep happened before Demon, so no
@@Jarsia good catch, I just double checked using wki, to be fair to myself its been awhile since I watched "ALL" of Voyager in linear order cause I find some ether boring or just dumb. It was a interesting idea at the time... thou with how much Voyager gets smashed about they also could have just lost the info/ship somehow \o/ its Star Trek forgetting stuff they have happens so often its a wonder they don't trip over it 24/7
I find a distance limit to be the most convincing explanation. Surely there must be a difference in the power requirements and the complications between folding two points one light year apart together and folding the delta quadrant so it touches the beta quadrant. One is like pinching a bed sheet, the other is trying to fold it perfectly in half with nothing but your teeth.
id bet with some practice you could fold a sheet with your teeth. its like a snake trying to fold a sheet in the wind?
@@omg_RANCORS Well I was originally going to go with folding it with your eye lids, but sure, I like the snake idea!
@@indetigersscifireview4360
Well, it can be done ...
... if you have a 10+ ton hydraulic press to hand ...
@@nigelft Which turns the paper into calcite. I would not to find out what the supspace equivalent is.
@@Janoha17 demons probably
@6:00 There would always be tactical value in an instantaneous jump. Even if this jump only works on shuttles, being able to blink jump them into a battle at any time would have huge value. I think the in universe explanation on this one is pretty simple. My guess would be that it has a non trivial chance of leaving you in a random point in space with every jump. AKA, its safety and reliability doesn't meet Star Fleet standards. That would limit its use to unmanned combat drones or exploration probes, but that then means the chance that other species could find Star Fleet tech if something goes wrong. So they just don't use it.
Like using the transporter and ending up halfway in a wall.
Okay, now that I think about it. It can still work as escape solution. If the most important thing is to stop being where you currently are, a random jump within 20 lightyears or so is still better than a hug from a disruptor.
If distance and/or size of the ship cubes power requirements, that alone could be prohibitive. Add exotic matter to the list and that would be the death knell. I have to agree, your theory is sound.
And it's not nearly fast enough that they could justify sending the shuttle to fed space either once or acting as a ferry to get the crew home.
Though you would think a quick small ship would be handy for the crew even if it's just short instantaneous local jumps.
an ftl drive powered by XM? now thats the ultimate extension of "wake up, Agents - its time to move"
May not be the best forum for it but Aron Eisenberg the actor who played Nog passed away yesterday. He was 50. Cause of death has not been stated.
Wasn't he fighting cancer or something?
@@titusallen1620 I don't think so. At least I never heard anything about it.
Lukos0036 my condolences to his family his story ark in ds9 was one of my favorites he helped change how ferengis were viewed not only in universe but also by the fans
Eric?
@@radeadcool Auto correct. Ty for catching that.
The thing you're missing, is Evil Janeway.
Janeway, being the budding God-Emperess-Tyrant that she was, knew that coaxial warp couldn't _safely_ be used. Of course, given that this is "Science Officer Shoot-First Janeway", that's not really a problem; it's how you _weaponize_ it that counts.
Starfleet never found out about this -weapon- propulsion system, because Janeway had plans for it upon getting back to the Federation. That's part of how she jumped straight past Rear Admiral and Admiral, to _Fleet Admiral._
Her army of warrior cobalt tarantulas also helped don’t forget!
I'm sorry, what in God's almighty name are you talking about?? She almost *never* shot first, and she wasn't a Tyrant at *all*! What are you talking about? Have you even watched Voyager?
'Sonic what the hell are you talking about?'
This is basically the Jump drive from BSG
It reminds me of the Frame Shift Drive from Elite dangerous
Maybe that's why they never used it for long hops, because Voyager never encountered Arrakis.
And The -Federation- Foundation series before that.
Reminds me of the jump drive from space engineers
Pollution, the coaxial drive was probably found be damaging, to subspace as high warp with conventional warp dive, and the future of space travel may have to be slipstream, if Andromeda is the future of space travel, they say it is the only way to to, using space actual distortion, instead of warping it.
They also found the spore drive damaging which is sad because it was even faster than coaxial warp.
That sounds alot like the Jump drive from nuBSG! and it could share the same issues maybe? Instantaneous, but short range, of course that could be solved with the Feds. better sensors, and more powerful and advanced networked computer systems. Charge-up and cool down time perhaps?
Not to mention a very detailed mapping of the galaxy( warp 10 provided ). Conclusion: Build a slightly larger Sovereign class with a triple warp/drive system. I hope they saved the formula that Q used on the enterprise D to get the shields up to 300%. It’s gonna be a bumpy ride
Jump drives have been common in SciFi for a very long time. The Jump drives in the Asimov foundation series kept the jumps small so that they could evaluate the target location as unoccupied by telescopes with reasonable probability. Indeed, most classic SciFi jump drives had this as a limiting factor. I did not get the impression of the coaxial drive being a jump drive but of being similar to the transwarp conduits used by the Borg and the Slipstream drive but instead of attempting to create a conduit of warped space, it created warping more local to the ship hence an open ended conduit that was only a full conduit at the ship instead of well ahead of the ship.
@@johnwang9914 With such intense energy, where does all the heat go?
@@sirdeadlock You do realize that FTL drives including jump drives are fictional...
As to dissipating heat, in space heat can only be radiated hence the large wing like radiators of the golden age of SciFi from the 50's and 60's. They would often have the heat radiators as three fins or four fins to prevent one fin from picking up the heat radiated from the other. Some people draw diagrams with thousands of fins around the spaceship, the fact that this would only result in each radiator picking up the heat of the others only demonstrates their ignorance of the concepts.
One detail that is always overlooked is that radiated heat is in fact infrared light and hence can be reflected and focused. I've always imagined the radiator being a single pipe in a reflector trough which focuses the infrared through a slit in the hull. This limits the amount of radiation that could be absorbed from outside sources to that which may get through the slit but still allows all the heat to be expelled outside the ship. Plus this idea would give the ship nice glowing red racing stripes perhaps angled to provide additional thrust from the infrared radiation.
Note dissipating heat is a serious problem with the Alcubiere drive, the basic warp drive concept. That's because the warp bubble is in fact a pocket universe and heat can not be dissipated from it, it's believed that from Hawking radiation alone, such a warp drive would immerse the spaceship in more heat than existed at the Big Bang. The occupants of the spaceship would not only be cooked but incinerated.
@@johnwang9914 Of course Dune solved the same issue via space magic, after they got rid of the AI. I imagine you could make a pretty damned speedy repeated jump drive with even normal sensors, provided you didn't jump inside of any cloaked ships.
it would be perfekt for "teleporting" bombs or torpedos to an enemy ship
You mean, like you could to with a teleporter already on all ships?
Like they did in Dark Frontier?
I only wonder why it wasn’t done more often...
The Federation already has Phase Cloaking to do that, with the added benefit of not potentially destroying the ship.
The description reminds me of the way that Tesseracts were explained in the book 'A Wrinkle in Time'
Probably the same reason they don't use thumb nail drives.
@YggdrasilAE What explodium? I thought they used all of it to make the Oberth class ships?
I really like the "Coaxial Induction Drive". I don't think Janeway would risk a shuttle or crew-member if it wasn't going to be worthwhile from a performance standpoint. I think they made the episode, then realized that they could send a few crewmen home at a time, and that would end the show, so they swept it under the rug. Probably the same rug they swept the Borg infant from the "Collective" episode under.
This is the kind of quality content I live for (and think about late at night and during slow periods at work).
I think you covered all of the best possible in-universe answers. The fact that Starfleet is aware of it and has been toying with it, but is still more interested in Transwarp drive is a good indicator that any one of those theories or a combination of them are true.
Personally I'd go with a combination of diminishing returns since we know from Year of Hell and other episodes that mass can affect the maximum warp factor of a starship mixed with it just not being that much faster and comes with annoying cool downs.
Like, say, a 33 minute cool down and recharge before being able to jump your ship again. Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge.
Also Starfleet seem to be interested in the path, not just the destination. How can you discover new life, new civilizations, places where no one has gone before, if you just blink past them.
Thinking about it now, I'd say that it was, probably an issue with diminishing returns, ie. the larger you build the drive, the more energy you need to put in, and at anything larger than, say, the test ship, any warp core you could fit into any given hull wouldn't produce enough energy to make coaxial warp worth it or work at all. Then there's also the possibility that the range figures stated were complete bolony, because as stated, very unreliable narrator.
That makes sense.
Although given even significant limitations like this, i wonder would it not have been a useful addition to the delta flyer (and later the runabout class ships). Supposing you come under attack and are out numbered or otherwise pinned down , it could even if its short range and single use (excessive power required meaning recharge via a starship or station) be a very useful escape mechanism for the less powerful ships. Sort of like a whole ship emergency transporter with usage similar to the ftl drive in bsg, you get in over your head and you can jump away.
So why not build a fleet of small ships, put voyager on auto driver or let the doctor driver it. They will get to earth in no time.
@ Out of what? They had to cannibalize the Captain's Yacht to build the Delta Flyer, (according to some of the secondary material at least) and having someone else do it would mean massive tech transfers both ways. All sorts of troubles there too.
That and the show would be over then and there.
Now... now that actually reminds me of the problem* of Tokamaks, ((Soviet)Toroid design) reactor system,
and how it was thought to be an unsolvable one in terms of scaling up the technology, a necessity due to its limited power output, the only if a glaring flaw for an otherwise superior technology, at least, the very least in terms of efficiency and fuel requirements..,
until recently... with the so called Stellarators(now being implemented in Germany as first prototypes are already, finally, online and operable thanks to rapid deployment and construction of necessary and necessarily complex parts needed in newly designed twisted toroidal/reinforced magnetic constriction fields) design, although, admittedly, it was impossible to implement until recently, due to improvements and the very development of industrial(although, to be fair, it, that version/principle, etc.etc. existed if on a "smaller" scale, in a smaller area of uses for a while now, and not until recently was it deemed as something feasible to implement in fields previously unrecognized as profitable, not until recent publicity and nigh-colloquial use) 3d printing technologies and their continued adaptation and implementation in new fields thanks to increased sponsorship from rising public awareness and support for technology... although all such wonders are still mostly in development as we're still figuring out the logistical of a world wide use by populace as well as new industries unfamiliar with these methodics prior, on a more common, daily base...
I really appreciate the documentary style. You balance entertainment, thoroughness, whimsy, and humor well. You are my primary Star Trek source, aside from the shows of course.
Seems like Coaxial Warp Drives could be very useful for escape pods. True, they'd have to make the pods a little bigger to account for the extra tech, but having the means to plot a quick jump to a habitable system would come in real handy in combat scenarios or deep space accidents alike.
If we make parallels between the Coaxial Warp and SW Hyperdrive, then perhaps aside from calculations, a detailed map of possible destinations is also required? For relatively short trips it could work, or as long as the systems you intend to travel to have been explored and charted in detail. But for any prolonged travels, especially though an unexplored space, it might not be practical (detailed scans and probing being prohibitively time intensive)
I agree with your explanation that between the jumps it just takes too long to let the drive cool down and the range is simply too low. To fold the space in big range is much more difficult than simply distorting space-time ahead of your ship. BTW: The Coaxial Warp drive is a ship engine version of the Sikarian Trajector or Rutian Inverter. All of these devices uses space folding. I think the transporter of TOS Calandans and the Iconian portals are based on a similar principle. They only have a much greater range than the ship version because they are stationary on a planet and teleport only small objects, such as persons.
It was built out of *Weeklionium,* the internal hull material that _resets to default at the end of every week._
It's how half the ships internals can be converted into a Holodeck or blown out by power surges from a duplicate ship and be back to factory spec within a week. Great stuff, but you've got to label it when making modifications or _"poof"._
There is also seasonium, which naturally decays with a half life of one season and returns to it's natural, unexcited state.
Some things made from the material: replicator rations, fired torpedos, anything that can go faster than a long time average of warp 8, the number 47, time travel paradoxes...
Do an episode on the Sikarian spatial trajector that Torres and Seska almost blew the ship up with.
What a weird combination, to make a coaxial warp drive sound or work like a jump- or wormhole drive. The coaxial warp drive rather sounds like a drive that creates two warp bubbles working together to move the ship along the same axis, i.e. the warp bubbles work coaxially.
coaxial warp drive implosion diverted by means of extending a gluten free symmetric warp field thingy around the wonky ship thus diverting a gigantic mess across several light years of space and loss of the ships security deposit...of course a healthy dose of technobabble and suspension of disbelief make for a more interesting script and plot narrative...albeit a less explodey one
I hear it's 1Gbps coaxial warp drive, too... and the new Q update supports coaxial warp ax. Exciting times for the technobabbles!
Gluten free? OK I'll work w that, I just go w 'it's the script' but I'm game to take your view on it. Of course if they had just hit w a hammer twice it'd work. Or the old 'I will break you into a 1000 pieces' has been known to motivate some things to work, also tends to get you to a live person when dealin w automated answering systems.
@@docbrown7916 for me adding Gluten Free to anything just makes it funnier...just like saying pumpkin spice meth...(which is also most likely gluten free...as is fluorine gas and cyanide...and those are both all natural and non GMO) yeah, i have a weird brain...
@@scottmantooth8785 Mine is just as weird, no worries ! At 56, originally from a mafia area of NJ and worked in construction, retail, escort work and advanced security and & near death experiences, I am a very strange person, but this is what makes us non normal and why roasting normals is so much fun.
@Nat20 Damage coax now for a brighter tomorrow.
A++
Love the background video as well! You may want to fiddle with the lighting settings (new/old) depending on the shot(s). I find the old lighting to look better in some instances, while new works in the rest. Regardless, wonderful subject! I always assumed it was "too short" and "too costly", since the 'pute would have to pick the point in space, and the engine would have to move that point.
1) Can only scan so far away
2) Larger ship, larger piece/point must be moved
Even if there was a size limitation, the *Delta Flyer* could equip it, and it was designed later.
And the overall travel time limitations _(if they are real,_ they traveled out of range of Voyager's astrometric sensors, and those are _long_ range) aren't a definite reason for not using the drive, because it still has one amazing trick…
The *GTFO* mode.
aka _"Run Away, Run Away"._
About to be overwhelmed by Cylon BaseStars… *"Jump".*
And now you're at least 24 hours minimum away at high warp, making quick repairs and running away on normal warp drive. Your enemies will never catch up cause you have a massive head start and they don't even know which way you went to have a chance to find a warp trail.
And in reverse it makes a awesome ambush mode, jump in on an unprepared victim. Useful for those episodes where they have to do rescue missions and try to sneak past blockades and sensors (in say Neelix's ship to do a prison break for Tom and Harry*, or to get Seven out of the Arena).
The Delta Flyer with coaxial warp would be the ultimate Scout ship as it could always get out of trouble. And if scaled up to Voyager and only able to do jumps at the same rate as high warp or even less, it's still a great escape trick.
But hang on, the original owner of Seth's body caught up to both of them, and he/she had a *Big* ship that may have been fitted with coaxial warp? (Y/N?)
Anyway, imagine what happens when they get home and Starfleet retrofits all its Defiant class ships with coaxial warp, and ablative armour generators, along with the other goodies Voyager got - the Tachyon beams to detect cloaked ships they got off the Dominion (but didn't install on the Enterprise E before going to Romulus…?).
*The ultimate raider.*
Although the Translocator was never grabbed by Janeway either, even though they captured the ship and used it to imprison the prison guards.
*Tom and Harry, they really needed to introduce a background crewman called Richard…
Side note, the Warp 10 drive would be amazing for a unmanned probe.
Send it out and get detailed readings on the entire region for hundreds of Sectors. Especially if the probe was optimised for it.
The shuttle got massive amounts of data just as a side benifit.
Or it could be Data's personal ship…
And then the Translocator…
A ultimate weapon in a way.
Beam the crew off enemy ships in combat through shields. The entire crew at "close" range (still beyond weapons range), individual members at extreme range.
And what if the Beaming on included explosives? Could it get past the integrity fields that prevented transporters doing that with torpedoes.
Or just beam on an assault force while the others ships security forces are suddenly in your brig (or not reintegrated…).
Another problem would probably be the hypothetical issue of two objects occupying the same space if it's used at the wrong place and wrong time (probability is very low, but it could happen). Also, when you scale a ship up in size, or any object, you run into the square-cubed law. An object twice the size of another object (double the scale, twice the height and twice the width for a rectangle or cube), will actually have 8 times the volume (so if you double the scale, if density remains the same (which for a ship is unlikely and has irregular density, but for ease of understanding work with constant density), you multiply the mass by 8). Exponentially more volume and mass have to be moved as you scale things up.
I like the idea of it being practical only for small ships. I'm going to work that into my carrier design, along with Multi-Layered Warp Drive (or whatever I eventually call it.)
Here is an idea a friend of mine came up with: warp field surfing.
He didn't put warp drives on his fighters, but equipped them to basically get pulled along in the warp bubble of the carrier. So no need to land them before running off, you only need to have them close enough and they can land en route.
We do have supporting lore to suggest that it must not have worked out too- We do see Voyager incorporate technology into itself that permanently increases it's efficiency and ability to maintain higher warp speeds, this suggests that any tech that *can* be used to speed up the trip *is* and was a decent bit of writing that lets us infer that if we don't see them use it then it must not have worked.
This tech would actually be a really great fit for late 24th or 25th century shuttles to use, though. Having one or just a handful of very specialised shuttles that can do near instantaneous 'hops' to a reasonable distance, yet having it still be unable to work on starships, would be a great addition to the capability, but also story telling, of trek ships
Is this going to be a series now where you discuss the pros and cons of all of Voyagers drive's of the week? If so, can you discuss the warp slingshot device they used in one episode
Coax warp seems to be similar to other jump drives from other properties in terms of operation, so it stands to reason that it would have similar downsides as well. Ontop of that, coax warp seems to be a violent affair in terms of subspace disturbance, as you would literally punch a hole in the fabric of reality to go from pnt A to pnt B instantly instead of just gliding on the waves of subspace.
In Broad Therms, isn't the Iconian Gateway Technology Coaxial Warp, in a certain Nature?
Instantaneous Folding of space by portals... And they've shown to be able to accomodate things as large as an Obelisk or Herold Dreadnought, atleast in STO...
Those gates were also stationary, and connected to fixed points in space.
To use it on a big moving ship, going to a non-fixed location, or even unexplored. Man, the calculations would take up SO much computer power.
Look up the Fold-Space Drives from Dune, and you'll see why Folding space is not done lightly.
I mean, in Dune they basically had to use psychic mutants to pull it off reliably.
Iconian Gateways are more similar I'd say to Stargates; but instead of deassembling the traveler and reassembling them on the other side it's instead literally just opening a doorway you can walk through much like in the Portal game series, or in the case of STO... pilot a ship through.
@@austinmartin612 Nah, they're more like magic. They can send starships back and forth through time and space at a significant distance.
@@namyun2743 not through time, iconians actually can't time travel, it causes their physiology to break down
What about the xindi Subspace Drive?
Range and reliability perhaps? I've also seen the theory that these were contingent on some sort of aspect inside the expanse, i.e. no Expanse, no subspace tunnels.
another good one...good chance that once the Xendi became part of the Federation aspects of their technology were blended with current others
The technology could also be very area specific. Like only where subspace has been damaged or disrupted by the Sphere Builders would work, but maybe not the entire galaxy. Which means in the future, the Xindi may have lost its ability to Subspace Drives thanks to the destruction of the spheres. They did not know it until decades before the TOS or TNG era.
@@raw6668 this gives rise to the curious question of the possibility of using momentary warp drive within a Dyson's sphere...since they are so massive traveling from one side to the other would be nearly impossible any other way...could a warp field even form within such a structure?...
has this even been suggested or explored before now?...
Scott Mantooth - Given that the interior shell of Star Trek’s Dyson Sphere is habitable, I’d guess that the structure only reaches the “Goldie Locks” zone of the star that it encompasses. In other words, the radius of the sphere is about the same as the distance between Sun and Earth.
On a stellar scale, that’s very small, less than 8 light-minutes. I’d say that it would be pretty hard to go to warp within a Dyson Sphere unless you somehow went at extremely low speeds. Like less than Warp 0.1 or something.
Admiring ur rendering of Voyager-quite lovely!👍
The most practical answer i can think of is that just popping up somewhere could be dangerous. Jumping into somewhere blind without knowing exactly whats there just doesn't seem smart. It would be safer to just approach things normally and be able to observe them as you get closer
3:08 Just like every movie from the early 2000's that ever tried to explain a wormhole lol.
That ship in the first minute or so is beautiful, the USS Waltham NCC-96176-F... What class is that? It’s lovely.
What if those Voyager technologies had been continuing researching in federation space in Picard series?
This drive was still on the "small ship test" phase.
The first warp ship was ICBM, outfitted with warp gondolas. The Deltaflier was quickly given temporary Transwarp capabilities. So it seems retrofitting drives on a small ship is generally easier (asuming they do not have a certain minimum size/energy requirement like Spore Hub Drive).
Meanwhile large ships like any Enterprise, Voyager, the Wakefield Class or any Fedeartion ship have to be build *around* or *heavily modified* for a new drive technology. The Excelsior class was literally designed for the "Transwarp Experiment".
As they actually built the Deltaflier onboard, we can asume they have some degree "Shipyard of Shuttle" capacity onboard. As the Interpid class was intended for Longrange Exploration, that would make sense. But even asuming the drive is not inherently unsuiteable for big ships and they had all the manufacturing needed, applying it to a big ship like Voyager decades away from any friendly shipyard is a very unlikely prospect.
As for their solution: The fix only made the issue less likly on small scales. Test have to be done if the issues is actually solved, or just delayed. And if no additional issues crop up if you make them bigger.
And disipating the Coaxial Warpfield only worked because they had a conventional Warpdrive several oders of magnitude more powerfull working on it from the outside.
So the drive is dangerous unstable and untested, has not yet been applied for anything larger then a shuttlecraft and retrofitting Voyager with it that far from home is a dubious prospect at best.
It might have also required a major refit to implement. That's easy enough on a shuttle-craft in a shuttle bay, but not on a full size ship with no friendly space-stations or docks in the entire quadrant.
Side thought: While it seems likely that practicality of some form was the answer for traveling over a great distance there are *significant* military applications for such a technology, so even if it wasn't an answer to the getting home problem in Voyager I think it'll be a missed opportunity if no one ever bring it up again from a military perspective.
I always figured it was a case of "The bigger the ship the more power required" and even a ship as small (compared to a Galaxy per say) as Voyager was it just wasn't feasible when compared to conventional warp drives. Either that or the drive became progressively more unstable as you increased the size of the ship.
That's the difference between Coaxial Warp and Quantum Slipstream
Quantum Slipstream doesn't care how long the ship is, as long as its relatively flat, allowing ships to manageably increase power output
Coaxial Warp just needs a fuck ton of power for a jump that could be done in 20 hours by a Constitution Class
I was surprised when they did the slip stream episode, can't just rewire all your propulsion systems on the fly and then flip back if it doesn't work.
I can think of three reasons. 1 The longer the point away the more power you would need to bend the space to where you are. With a Warp drive you can just head in the direction. 2 You are not moving through space until the two points meet. Would that mean an increase in time to force the points together? If it does then you can not escape from a situation quickly. You have to wait for teh drive to engage. That could be a major issue if attacked by something and you need to retreat. 3 You can only go to the point you set. With warp drive you can drop out of it at any time and change heading. With Coaxial you can only to move to the spot you decided upon.
The Coaxial Warp drive sounds exactly like the Kearney-Fuchida Drive that Battletech uses. It works on the same premise, using gravity wells of stars to chart points of jump. It does this by bending time and space on itself to shorten the travel position. It often uses high amounts of energy. Most Warships and Jumpships can use the drive twice safely without issue, jumping a third time would often cause the drive to fail or explode the ship due to the reactor unable to output the necessary power to maintain the jump window.
Just my non smartsy 2 cents. But I feel like that in order to bring two points together for a period then move across them, takes more energy than a warp field, as we've seen how efficient warp fields are. K could be wrong, but it's just a feeling.
Wouldn’t you have to extend your warp field to the destination you want to jump to in order for coaxial warp to get there? This seems like a very effective method for short range teleportation, but doesn’t seem like it would be useful for traversing long distances.
I could see this being implemented on warships to allow teleportation jumps mid combat similar to how the discovery used the spore drive for jumps in combat. It would probably surprise any foe who encountered a teleporting warship.
And just do it continuously/consecutively and you have (coaxial) warp.
@@xario2007 This is how it was done in the show. I don't know why everyone is saying it's intant point A to B travel. It wasn't even instant in the episode. Steth clearly says it's great for travel a amazing speeds but only in short spurts.....which doesn't suggest anything instantaneous. Hence the name coaxial "warp".
From what I understand, canonically, warp drives create a subspace field around the ship in such a way that the ship is propelled through normal space at speeds faster than light because subspace "slides" through normal space like oil through water.
What you're talking about, the bending of space itself to "propel" ships (I used propel in quotes because the ship actually isn't moving, space is moving around it), is the real world interpretation that was introduced by Miguel Alcubierre in 1994. Doing this is hard though, even modern estimates using altered equations put top speed at 10x the speed of light requiring as much power as the US consumes in a year. (Which, from my understanding of warp scale, puts it at warp 2.15). Dr. Alcubierre and his successors have called this warp drive because they're all nerds and enjoy Star Trek.
Coaxial warp drive, as your animation suggests, does something very similar, though distinctly different. The destination is brought to the exact position your ship is at, then you cross the axis, and release the warpage. In other words, two distant points of space are connected via a warpage of some kind, and you cross it for the purpose of traversing great distances in short periods of time, if not instantaneously. That sounds just like a wormhole, which is notoriously difficult to create even in Star Trek. Every time that I can remember wormholes being plot devices, they were either extremely unstable, partially unstable and deteriorating, or created by beings of other planes of existence and maintained by said beings for millennia. Now granted, being able to wormhole anywhere in the universe in an instant would be fantastic, I'm sure Starfleet would be cautious of any prototype being installed, or tested, on any ship in service regardless of their current predicament or confidence.
Okay, here is an Idea for a story as to why.. For every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction. So in this case the more mass a ship has the more, intensity the subspace shock-wave will have.. Also the gravity waves made by such a jump would be astounding. Also the act of instantly appearing is a spot in space, would make positive gravity waves, and vanishing from where you where would make negative shock waves.. (Think implosion grenade, found in fiction stories.)
You may of partially hit the issue with the power option: What provides the most power on a Federation Starship? The warp core.
What shut down the Coaxial Drive? A "symmetrical Warp field" imposed by Voyager's Warp Drive.
A smaller ship doesn't need a operating Warp Drive to power all systems, even Voyager didn't per say but it's also a ship where reserve power is a precious commodity.
My theory, Coaxial Drives don't provide power, and a running traditional Warp Core generates a field that would "potentially" generate a warp field that would shut down the Coaxial drive.
To explain simply, You can't have a running Warp Core on a Coaxial drive ship, so a bad Jump would leave Voyager vulnerable till the Warp Core is brought online, if they had the ability to power the Coaxial Jump in the first place.
But the Warp Core is just a Matter/Anti-Matter Reactor that generates the energy to power the Warp Coils in the Nacelles which are what generates the warp field. The Warp Core itself doesn't create a warp field it's just the power source it also powers the rest of the ship (with fusion reactors as backup/auxiliary generators) including shields, weapons ect.
Can you do a video for Tash's slingshot from the episode, The Voyager Conspiracy Season 6 episode 9 which allowed the voyager crew to travel 30 sectors in one hour saving them 3 years travel time
Or in other words....Catapult a vessel across space in the time it takes to say 'Catapult a vessel across space'.
That felt like they were going to set up a future storyline but abandon it. It bit weird how a piece of alien technology manage to trade hands an move some quickly across the galaxy.
@@DavidKnowles0 They actually bring that point up during the episode, but never come with an actual explanation.
It's one of the "conspiracies" Seven puts together.
Just spend a month to build one every 30 sectors and you can be home in a few jears instead of decades!
If you watch the episode this is shown in. The person they save immediately says that he pushed the drive past it's limits. If that was the case and it caused such a potentially dangerous effect of collapsing space itself for a sizable distance.. It would be simple enough to assume Starfleet would rather not use the technology until it can be made safer.
But I think you are correct on size of the ship or object being pushed through space/subspace in this manner. That and just appearing in places where potentially hazardous situations could be present, might also be another reason to not use the drive. Perhaps there is no simple way to scan the area before you appear where you are going.
Even if it can only be a shuttle size vessel there is no way that they would just never use it again. Being able to travel 20 light years in an instant seems like it would have a lot of uses.
My first thought as a mechanic; What if it just wouldn't fit? An engine of a certain power has a specific size and shape. What if that size and shape were incompatible with Voyager's structure? It's one thing to reconfigure a small shuttle but it's something else entirely to reconfigure your entire starship. Especially when you don't have access to a dry dock.
My impression is also that Coaxial Warp Drive is a drive meant for smaller size craft, as you said. The speed and power are relative to the size, and simply impractical for capital ships.
The idea that it's best suited for TINY ships is a good justification. And yeah, "FORGET ABOUT THAT!" the oath of all TV writers.
Fits well with the fact that all space folding devices that were previously introduced in Star Trek were teleporters for (single) persons.
Going by the diagram example. Picking a point in space and pulling that location to you and instantly slingshotting you to that point is a very great idea! They were just using it in the wrong way. If they use their conventional warp in a combination of the coaxial warp. While moving warp 9 and using Coaxial jump in conjunction even if the jump is only a warp 9.5. You can boost the ships warp travel speed though all be it in bursts. The ship would move at warp 18.5! Since space is mostly empty. You can use that reactive force of motion to coast across space without wasting energy to maintain a constant pull in front of the ship. I also have a Theory of my own about the Warp Space Drag. The bigger the bubble around the ship the more energy needed to pull the space around it and to move it forward. Think of it as when longer and narrower ships move faster through water, than wider and shorter ships do. I believe the same visual concept reference should be applied to space warp but instead of being on the surface of water you are underwater much like a submarine. Because you are displacing warp space around the entire ship much like a submarine does when it moves underwater. Taking all this theory into account for better and faster conventional warp speeds They need to manipulate the warp bubbles shape to stretch it out longer and thinner as well as designing a ship that has to the ability to manipulate while on the fly. So it can change course while in warp so it doesn't have to warp in straight lines. I don't know if they can already do this in-universe. but I'm just going to throw that out there. So in a quick summary. Go warp 9 Coaxial Warp slingshot to Warp18.5, coast that speed until the Warp Space Drag effects that speed back to the ship's original Warp 9. The Coaxial Warp warp boost speed dissipation would depend on the ship warp bubble shape. So the slower the dissipation rate the fast and longer the distances can be traveled. Okay, I think I've NERD the Shit out of this. lol
The omega directive may be able to explain that.
If you look at the idea that even a single omega molecule can disrupt sub space at great distances; then the fact that coaxial warp disasters can do similar, would be exactly why the crew of Voyager didn’t follow on with this idea.
One mistake and they’re sitting ducks in the delta quadrant;.. providing the ship survived (which it wouldn’t, if they don’t ditch their warp core before the breech)
Even with the previous mentioned, second core; disruptions to sub space at this magnitude; would prevent Voyager from establishing a stable warp field.
Too risky.
I’d say that Janeway and her crew would have waited to reach home before sharing what they had learned.
I have a feeling it had more to do with the whole warp 5+ using the "MOAR POWAH" warp method of TNG's time resulting in spacial damage. If warping space a little is bad, imagine how bad folding space on itself in a 20 LY range is.
Even if you can't use it for bigger ships. It still would be extremly valuable for shuttle too jump and "disapear" if they were attacked.
I imagine while the technology itself is decently easy to use and even replicate once you have the schematics, it's everything else around it that makes it unfit for consistent use. You brought up the fuel source and/or energy requirements, but those are just speculations. Even if we assume they are possible to deal with efficiently enough, there are other aspects to be considered:
For one, you have to know exactly what point you want to target. You can't just pick a random location in *that* direction - you have to make sure that that spot is safe to emerge in. While space is mostly empty and the chances for that are tiny, you don't want to run the risk of appearing inside a star, a meteor field or the gravity well of a black hole. That requires extremely precise sensor imaging, which again limits the range.
This is made worse by the next point, which is other ships. Tracking stellar objects over long distances is possible enough to get some use out of the drive - but it's nearly impossible to track other ships at those distances. Jumps into populated systems is risky even if they shared their sensor data. Warp still allows you to react to what's in front of you, the coaxial variant is pretty much instantaneous. It would be banned anywhere near systems and common routes...
Ironically it becomes less precise the farther away from such population centers you are, which could share sensor data with you. Especially in uncharted space or other cultures' territory you may encounter hard to pick up structures and cloaked vessels...
I'd love to see Coaxial Warp used as an alternative getaway method for cornered ships. A last resort type of technology that is otherwise too inconsistent to replace the conventional warp drive for regular travel.
I could see "Coaxial Warp Drive" equipped heavy fighter/bomber/gunship doing short-range tactical jumps from there carrier into combat "X-Wing style"
I'm sure the Federation will remember that the next time they happen to be in a big war.
Something else that comes to mind: sensor range limits. Over the course of normal warp travel, there is still some sensor capabilities to alert to distortions or disruptions ahead. This was in fact part of the problem with Slipstream - that the speeds exceeded their ability to map out the pathway ahead safely. Either the sensors couldn't reach far enough ahead or the system couldn't process the readings in time to let the computer adjust.
Now imagine that the statement of multiple jumps and the statement of going twenty lightyears are independent (and believable) - that is, the ship did many test jumps and then did a single twenty-lightyear jump. Any visual or radio scans would be useless since they'd be aged out by the distance - even a visual scan one lightyear out would be one year out of date. Some subspace or other future tech may be able to collect data further out, but not likely that far out. Thus, an instant jump that far ahead would be risky, especially if there are invisible factors like subspace distortions or small physical dangers like micrometeors or asteroids that happen to drift into the path. A smaller ship can more easily risk it because there's less cross-section to hit.
Granted, space really is mostly empty and the odds are in the ship's favor, but the risk of something at a level of reality like subspace throws those odds out the window.
This is jumping to an alternate IP, but the logic could apply here too.
This is basically how the hyperspace drive works in Macross. In the first few series they're jumping stuff that ranges in size from a 747 to about 9 miles long, the main limit at that point is fuel to power the reactors for the jump and the cooldown on the drives after. Later in the franchise, they're jumping generational colony ships roughly the size of Luxembourg, with multiple attached O'Neill Island 3 colony cylinders, along with a supporting fleet of thousands of ships and they start running into issues of "hyperspace wakes".
Basically the bigger the object/cluster of objects in one jump, the bigger the 'wake'. Also the longer the jump, the bigger the 'wake'. This is talked about like Trek talks about subspace distortions, where it can rip ships apart at it's worst, but more typically interferes with high speed navigation. Smaller ship's 'wakes' dissipated before their drive cooldown was typically over so it wasn't an issue early on; jumping a colony fleet even short distances produces a wake that's big enough it takes weeks to months before it's safe to jump anything big again, with smaller ships like passenger liners and shuttles jumping between ripples.
A similar scaling thing might be at play with coaxial warp, but with different scales because different setting. So something the size of a shuttle, maybe up to the size of a Defiant might benefit from a coaxial warp jump, but the distortions might be too much of a hassle for anything bigger.
This mechanism is what BSG uses and it's limitayion is presented as jump accuracy. The longer the jump, the more precise the control of the drive needs to be. There are also mentioned calculations that need to be made, and that they get more complex the longer you jump, but that could just be the first effect in action: the approximation that is used to make the calculations needs to be more precision the longer the jump. But Voyager didn't mention any of this.
From what i gathered from the subject episode- the amount of energy needed for a larger vessel and considering that energy would also need to be spent per destination distance meaning - energy for mass + energy for distance - standard warp even if slower far out strips the coaxial for effective use on larger vessels . The coaxial however would be far more effective for a in combat positional use if given its own small power reserve a set amount of jumps in combat could be allotted . Making it valuable but not in the general sense. My guess is they expected the viewer to be able to put that frame of thought together judging by the conversations in the episode and would also explain why the tech was not re-visited.
Using it would lessen the exploration first factor. Getting home was in practice a secondary objective. Even though Harry was pushing to go home...
the Coaxial Warp Drive is rough on the ship the damage would have to be repaired after each jump and that would lose time
Did anyone else get a burst of nostalgia from thumbnail for this video? Reminds me of the schematics for the spacecraft from the old Wing Commander series.
That experimental ship has to be HUGE.
Isn't Coaxial Warp just the same as making a wormhole? 🤔
That's what I thought.
More like the 2004 BSG FTL drive.
In real world (stop booing ...) terms, it is exactly that ...
As physicist are wont to do, rather than transverse the distance between two furthest points on a piece of paper, you 'poke' a hole at the point of origin, hope for spacetime to fold on itself, thereby enabling to poke another 'hole' at the destination (but I guess you already knew that, so nvm ...).
Trouble is, not only are wormwholes purely theoretical, you have to hope that that black hole is connected to the, still yet to be discovered, white hole, thus avoid the nasty business of trying to negotiate a gravitational singularity. But given any known physics falls apart beyond the event horizon, then you're looking at a pretty difficult problem ...
In universe, and if the graph in 'TNG: Technical Manual' is correct, then, the issue is one of energy. Iirc, the graph is logarithmic, meaning every step in warp velocity requires an exponential increase of amount of energy, until at Warp 10, you need an infinite amount of power. And that is just the 'standard' warp core. Also, instead of compression/expansion of the typical warp bubble, you try folding spacetime around yourself, that requires not only sufficient energy to open a wormhole, but sustain it (due to Hawking Radiation, black holes can, and do, 'evaporate', with the time it takes to do so is related to its mass, and size ...).
Put the two together, and it is logical to assume that only a relatively large shuttle, which doesn't need a particularly large wormhole to travel through, would only be able to travel a (relatively ...) small distance, because of the energy demands, and the size of the core proportional to the ship, and its mass. I would imagine even something as relatively small as Voyager (compared to, say, the Enterprise-E), in order for it to fold space, the size of the core would take up a lot of space ... and that is not including fuel storage.
Hence why it is believable Star Fleet never really pursued the idea: compared to the standard ship drive, as any advantages would be outweighed by the disadvantages.
@@nigelft Didn't see you'd posted this explanation here. I posted a somewhat similar explanation but yours is better written and is what I agree is the issue with the drive.
It's obviously different because... they gave them different names ;)
Another possibility: it might do far worse damage to subspace than normal warp - not on par with an omega particle decay, but still bad enough that the Federation doesn't want to shoot themselves in the foot using it.
This is really just folding-space - which Dune proposed in the 1960s.
Co-axial Warp sounds like the Trek version of Battletech's Kearney-Fuchida Jump Drive. It can go ~1 LY / second, but only has a range of 30LY... but then takes 12+ hours between jumps [without a double jump module] as the ship either unfurls a giant solar sail or literally runs its engines in neutral to have the alternator charge the jump capacitors. K-F drives use gravity wells to jump through hyperspace between 2 systems' lagrange points
The Coaxial Drive kind of reminds me of the Hyperdrive from the 90s Lost in Space movie... in that the Hyperdrive uses gates to connect two points in space that the ship then moves between. Without using the gates, you’re flung to a random point in the galaxy, akin to putting random co-ordinates into a Coaxial Drive and activating it.
If it is a case that the drive can only do short distances on its own, then couldn’t Starfleet do the same as the Hyperdrive and set up gates that could do the warping of space, while the Coaxial Drive just creates a field around the ship? Basically split out the properties of the drive. Let the gates do the heavy lifting while the drive only has to stabilise the field around the ship, meaning it shouldn’t need as much power to work on larger vessels.
A bot how the NX-01 Enterprise left subspace beacons behind for communication because the range was to large for their own antennas. Also gives plot potential if enemies blow up the gates or threaten to do so.
There is another, yes another, drive tech shown in ST-E, the one used by the Xindi. [The visual effect of the inside of a subspace vortex, a CGI effect depicted in "Countdown" and "Zero Hour", is similar to that of quantum slipstream drive seen in Star Trek: Voyager. In the final draft script of "Zero Hour", the effect was described as "a roiling channel of turbulent energy."] [Capable of transporting a vessel at a rate of about six light years per two minutes, the vortices were opened through the generation of a phase deflector pulse, using on-board generators, and were sustainable for hours at a time] Using the Xindi drive Voyager could have got back to the Alpha quadrant in about 380 hours, about 16 days.
My guess as to why we never heard more about the coaxial drive, may be down to the following things...
1. It was an experimental technology when first encountered, and even though all onscreen problems were adressed in the episode, there is no telling if there were other problems that hadn't been discovered by the time we saw it in the episode, thus deeming the technology unreliable.
2. Even if the technology was reliable, it might have had scaling issues, thus only being applicable on vessels with a size up to the size of the test ship (As already mentioned in the video).
3. Politics might have played a part in why the Voyager crew didn't pursue this technology onscreen after the end of the episode. Given that the test ship wasn't in the possession of the creators of the technology, the Voyager crew may have been required to hand over any and all data gathered about this technology, in exchange for restoring both Tom Paris and Cpt. Janeway to their original forms. This would include the modifications made to the shuttlecraft (Assuming the drive wasn't knocked out entirely when Seeth was apprehended).
I'm pretty sure this is a deal that Cpt. Janeway would agree to, as they have acquired the technology without the consent of the creators, which could lead to a diplomatic incident that could have severe consequences for the Federation (Opening up the Federation up to a potential war against a species with a propulsion system that is superior to the Borg Transwarp propulsion) if the creators managed to perfect the technology before Voyager could get home.
The 3 above are the most likely in my opinion, though definately not the only ones.
The idea that there might be a challange regarding availability of fuel would fall under category 2. The Slipstream Drive was also partially the victim of this premise. When they made the catastropic attempt to return to the alpha quadrant with the use of the Slipstream Drive, they mentioned that a key component was already starting to break down, meaning they were on the clock, or the drive would become inoperable. So definately not unlikely.
Watching this I'm left thinking that doing this telepathically is what the Travler did in "Where no one has gone before" Everyone had to supply him with mental energy so he could focus on the other point of space and the visual effects we saw of the Enterprise stretching was the warping of two points. That's my new theory now :)
I believe the real problem was that it's too fast. If it's instant their is a risk of warping into something that's occupying the space
Easy way to end up like the Pegasus without risking the Treaty of Algeron.
Thank you Rick for answering my comment about the coaxial warp so promptly. That can join, why was the isokinetic cannon not finished, it was fitted and they were integrating it? After 7 of 9 helped them upgrade the ship's shields with Borg tech, why was it all dismantled. It was like each episode was written by a different writer who hadn't bothered to watch previous episodes. Probably the worst part of the show for me.
The explanation was actually given in-show. Blink and you'll miss it, but he did say he couldn't 'steer' the ship reliably; It could travel instantaneously to any point in space, but WHICH point was a bit of a crap shoot. Voyager didn't want to take the risk that they'd end up right back at the Ocampa homeworld.
I feel like the people living between the starting and ending points of a coaxial-warp jump would be annoyed by being folded in half.
They should embrace the chance to meet each other
I forgot I already watched this 😂
This is still the best Battlestar Galactica vs Star Trek argument I've heard on their FTL drives
Conventional warp drive works by warping the space in relatively close proximity to the vessel. And even that level of warping was slowly breaking the fabric of space/time up along the more heavily traveled regions of space. Starfleet was frantically developing technology to MINIMIZE this damage. The coaxial warp reached out light years and warped space towards the vessel. I would imagine that a drive system like that would be many times more damaging to the warp and woof of space than conventional warp was.
Because they needed the Spice to make it work, because this sounds a lot like a Holtzman drive from Dune, seeing as it folds space
Would they? Spice is needed for navigators to be able to plot the jump because in Dune 'thou shalt not make a machine in the image of a man' and such so they require navigators to be living computers.
So, Star Trek would simply just apply the ship's computer.
There are so many things that the writers had to wash away as options for Voyager to last 7 seasons instead of 4.
The Quantum Slip Stream Drive, Coaxial Warp Drive, and Transwarp Drive options could’ve been implemented and used in short bursts to drastically reduce the trip.
Cutting the journey down to 10-15 years, along with routine contact with the Alpha Quadrant, would make the situation far more bearable for the crew.
Additionally, with routine contact with Starfleet, sharing the technology to build a Starfleet Transwarp Conduit, a Quantum Slipstream Gateway, or bargaining with Species 8472 to use Fluidic Space as a conduit to reemerge in the Alpha Quadrant are all possibilities.
Then again, there are tons of ways they could’ve made the show more appealing and the stories better. Going completely serialized, and starting each episode with a title card that gave a Stardate and estimated distance from Earth could’ve been one of a myriad of things that would put some stakes to the show.
I thought of two reasons!
1. Energy if the drive was as efficient and they traveled 1 hours distance in 1 instant they would Need to produce 1 hours worth of energy in 1 instant as well, like the difference between regular rockets and the theoretical rockets that are propelled by exploding nukes under them.
2. Astrogation if they are warping somewhere they can steer on approach. that would be much more difficult with this, and it also may not allow such precise “landings” at longer ranges.
I like the idea of it having cooldown and scaling issues that make it not worth pursuing for a larger vessel, so they ended up just keeping it on that one shuttle for specific missions. Shame they never demonstrated that though.
I would say it was due to the amount of energy needed to perform the coax warp vs standard warp. You'd have to bend space twice for the coax warp, which for a smaller craft like a shuttle could probably be done with the antimatter reactors they had. But think of the rate of scaling for energy to size. To make a larger warp bubble would require far less power than needed to bend space twice (once to bend it, once to return it) for a MUCH larger ship. Especially when the nacelles do a lot of the heavy lifting for stabilizing the warp bubble vs the drive itself doing everything (think of a computer with onboard graphics vs a dedicated gpu). This scaling issue is why I believe they couldn't do it with the Voyager. Not to mention that warp uses a constant amount of power whereas I would believe that the farther you coax warp would require greater and greater amounts of energy as you're bending more and more space.
Coaxial Warp drive probably requires a lot more planning than standard Warp. Due to requiring shorter jumps, this means that unless they warp to known locations they might have to deal with plotting out a more accurate course, as in most every sci-fi the idea if blind jumping always leads to mapping out the location you ended up in.
Outside of that, there could of been more of a issue with just the drive itself the larger it gets as what problem was solved by Tom might be only manageable on a smaller scale.
Well in one of the series, I think TNG, regular warp past a certain speed damages space if the area is traversed at warp speed frequently. Perhaps coaxial causes subspace wear and tear at a faster rate? Using the tried and true folded paper analogy, regular warp is like rolling paper up into a tube and coaxial might be more like creating a hard crease in the paper. Once you create a crease in a piece of paper it's tough to uncrease it.
Isn't that why the Voyager has the swiveling nacelles? To somehow mitigate that issue.
Thanks to its near instantaneous qualities, Coaxial warp would however be a good plot application for say avoiding or bypassing spaceial anomalies, mine & Asteroid fields that ships usually come across unexpectedly or say fleeing overwhelming enemy numbers, or say as an alternate emergency drive application if the primary warp drive had become inoperable.
This sounds like something that was discussed in TNG. I don't remember the name of the episode but Wesley Crusher talks about folding space over on itself and talks about the negative effects of it. I believe it was the episode where the Enterprise is dealing with a planet suffering with terrorism