I think the main problem with the system is it presents two opposites. Wanting to keep a game challenging and presenting the progression through gear just do not mesh. Gear > Farm to get stronger > Eventually farm enough to blast everything away much faster How remnant does it, Gear > Farm to get stronger > enemies scale with that gear so its always a challenge > "Why am I upgrading my gear?"
it is a problem cause after 230 hours in game you are no stronger cause everything scaled up with you, that sucks :/ wish they at least unlocked trait cap
In terms of relative DPS? Just upgrading your guns would be the best. However, I think that the most effective possible upgrade level is +12. That's in the ballpark of Dreamer's minimum, and slightly below Undying King's, while staying above the minimum of every other area of the campaign.. Adventure Mode and Subject 2923's minimum level will never exceed yours, so you won't be outscaled by playing those either.
It is all to do with your level scaling with the enemies. This test misses some information, if you were to start a new character and theoretically max your equipment on the first level you would get your ass kicked later on because enemies scale up to you because you are maxed on the first map with no traits. If you level your character properly then life becomes much easier. Gear score is irrelevant to traits, you could have maxed traits but be gearscore 1, so once you max your gear score your main focus is then on traits to further level up your character
You still get a boost against areas that have been visited already. I assume this system exists to offset the player's own insane scaling from traits and gear accessibility, as well as keep the game actually interesting on NG+. I sure wouldn't have played this game as much as I have if the worlds were scaled the same way no matter what.
I definitely get the discontentment with this mechanic. However, I personally think it's not as bad as one might initially think, for two reasons. One, the player's power creep from traits and gear accessibility is extremely high. A GS20/TR1000 character is far easier to play than GS1/TR0 character. The game needs a way to present some form of challenge, and tying it to the level of gear will somewhat keep pace with how the player gains power in other ways. Two, it makes the system behind replayability much simpler. Most players don't want to just dumpster every enemy on Earth for subsequent playthroughs, only to finally meet some resistance around Corsus/Yaesha. A scaling system such as this one is really the only way I see to avoid this problem. Also, I think it's important to note that upgrading does put you ahead of areas you've visited already - it doesn't retroactively make them more difficult. And most of the power the enemies gain compared to you is near the end of the leveling scale. That is to say, the gap between you and enemies is much larger at GS20 than it is at, say, GS10.
No, this was definitely tested and is a great mechanic. The 2nd game should incorporate this too. Gear score 20 characters have an easier time due to the traits they unlock. The game allows you to level to be stronger to manage the enemies you are currently fighting, and scales so that it remains a challenge. This makes the game even more balanced and replayable.
My only problem with this mechanic is that trying out new builds with gear that isn't maxed out (when you already have gear that is max level) Sucks because if you have GS20 and equip lower level gear it does not scale back down.
IIRC +12 is essentially the highest "minimum" level there is. DLC and Adventure mode have no minimums. Dreamer and Undying King are a little bit higher than that, but not enough to be worth worrying about. You probably shouldn't be going after Undying King on Hardcore anyways.
@@sneaky5141 I would argue that aside from Tian, I would be more worried about Undying King than any of the Reisum bosses. As frustrating as some of them may seem (Obryk), they are generally able to be defeated with consistency. While this isn't strictly untrue for Undying King, he spawns a lot of fairly dangerous mobs that lead to a lot of nonsense and unpredictability to the fight.
There’s a lot more going on than in this demonstration. Your traits have a big impact on your character’s strength and the amount of loot you have allows you to change builds for different situations too. This mechanic just makes sure you’re not invincible so that the game stays interesting.
I agree, scaling difficult based on your level or stat doesn't make the game more fun... Thats why I like games like Elden Ring, where you can feel how strong you get.
Ultimately, I guess nothing past ~14, since that's the highest "minimum" world level in Remnant 1. A character with trait points and some bare minimum gear synergy at GS20/WL21 is still going to find the game easier than a character at GS0/WL1 though, so in my mind it's a way to keep the player's insane power keep at least a little bit in check.
@@trueevil_5731But GS1/Traits maxed is easier than GS20/Traits maxed is why the system is fundamentally broken its not a matter of new character vs. maxed its a matter of you are making the game harder by levelling gear irrelevant of whether your traits are 10 or 1000
@@sneaky5141 I don't misunderstand that. I just don't see the system as broken. A well-equipped character is *so* overpowered, that losing some relative power via scaling is something I prefer. I already considered Apocalypse to be an inadequate challenge after a few hundred hours, so if things were different ("fixed"), it would have felt like even more of a cake walk. I think the gear score system, however sneaky, does a good job of keeping that power creep in check, unless the player somehow spams a serious number of upgrades without gaining any of the expected power of traits and gear synergy. I feel the same is true for Remnant 2. The strength of a maxed out character is preeeetty crazy. The time to kill for bosses is very low compared to how it is at a low power level (Rem 2's equivalent of gear score).
Each region has a minimum gear score in the campaign. For example, the end of Earth in the campaign is, at the very least, scaled as if you had +5 equipment. It will be scaled higher if you arrive there with a higher gear score. These minimums are not applied in Adventure Mode. This means that by choosing not to upgrade your gear for the campaign, your equipment will be very weak by mid/end game, because the game will still scale those regions up to their respective minimums. You are not able to make your campaigns easier by refusing to level your gear.
![[Remnant] A Beginners Guide to Understanding the Game.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M5QDtNgXCrI/mqdefault.jpg)
I think the main problem with the system is it presents two opposites. Wanting to keep a game challenging and presenting the progression through gear just do not mesh.
Gear > Farm to get stronger > Eventually farm enough to blast everything away much faster
How remnant does it, Gear > Farm to get stronger > enemies scale with that gear so its always a challenge > "Why am I upgrading my gear?"
it is a problem cause after 230 hours in game you are no stronger cause everything scaled up with you, that sucks :/ wish they at least unlocked trait cap
Love the game, hate with a passion the time it takes to heal with a dragon heart. It should be instant.
Me too sometimes you don't have time to heal before your killed
that is called balance . learn when to use it and not to use it
When you get hit with some bosses you can't get away to heal in time
Learn timings my boy, can’t have every win handed to you. Balance is a stupidly crucial part of souls like.
there is a trait that reduces the amount of time it takes. makes the items actually worth using too imo
I'm back after playing remnant 2 and being super fucking pissed that they brought this god forsaken system back
15 seems to be the sweet spot
The lowest gear score you can have with all DLC is unfortunately 1 because Hero's Sword and Adventurer's Goggles both have +2 D:
So the "easiest" runs would be to not upgrade your gear? Or jus upgrade your guns?
In terms of relative DPS? Just upgrading your guns would be the best. However, I think that the most effective possible upgrade level is +12. That's in the ballpark of Dreamer's minimum, and slightly below Undying King's, while staying above the minimum of every other area of the campaign.. Adventure Mode and Subject 2923's minimum level will never exceed yours, so you won't be outscaled by playing those either.
Gear and guns are the same....
It did in remnant 1 . Some people would never upgrade any gear because of it
This IS Remnant 1 btw.
I was wondering if someone could answer me. I don't like Dark soul games and was wondering if a player would still like both Remnant 1 & 2.
Am I correct to assume that player is punished for leveling up? What game does that? What is the point? I probably don't understand, it cant be it.
It is all to do with your level scaling with the enemies. This test misses some information, if you were to start a new character and theoretically max your equipment on the first level you would get your ass kicked later on because enemies scale up to you because you are maxed on the first map with no traits. If you level your character properly then life becomes much easier. Gear score is irrelevant to traits, you could have maxed traits but be gearscore 1, so once you max your gear score your main focus is then on traits to further level up your character
You still get a boost against areas that have been visited already. I assume this system exists to offset the player's own insane scaling from traits and gear accessibility, as well as keep the game actually interesting on NG+. I sure wouldn't have played this game as much as I have if the worlds were scaled the same way no matter what.
I hope the sequel fixes this. This was definitely not tested. Upgrading and leveling up should make the game easier - not harder.
I definitely get the discontentment with this mechanic. However, I personally think it's not as bad as one might initially think, for two reasons.
One, the player's power creep from traits and gear accessibility is extremely high. A GS20/TR1000 character is far easier to play than GS1/TR0 character. The game needs a way to present some form of challenge, and tying it to the level of gear will somewhat keep pace with how the player gains power in other ways.
Two, it makes the system behind replayability much simpler. Most players don't want to just dumpster every enemy on Earth for subsequent playthroughs, only to finally meet some resistance around Corsus/Yaesha. A scaling system such as this one is really the only way I see to avoid this problem.
Also, I think it's important to note that upgrading does put you ahead of areas you've visited already - it doesn't retroactively make them more difficult. And most of the power the enemies gain compared to you is near the end of the leveling scale. That is to say, the gap between you and enemies is much larger at GS20 than it is at, say, GS10.
No, this was definitely tested and is a great mechanic. The 2nd game should incorporate this too.
Gear score 20 characters have an easier time due to the traits they unlock. The game allows you to level to be stronger to manage the enemies you are currently fighting, and scales so that it remains a challenge.
This makes the game even more balanced and replayable.
This mechanic indeed isn't that bad, I'm a Warframe player and believe me the powercreep there is something you don't want to see it in Remnant 2
My only problem with this mechanic is that trying out new builds with gear that isn't maxed out (when you already have gear that is max level) Sucks because if you have GS20 and equip lower level gear it does not scale back down.
@@rrestoring_faith This mechanic made me stop upgrading gear. Indeed amazing.
So for hardcore mode what's the best +level for both main game + DLC? +12? +14?
IIRC +12 is essentially the highest "minimum" level there is. DLC and Adventure mode have no minimums. Dreamer and Undying King are a little bit higher than that, but not enough to be worth worrying about. You probably shouldn't be going after Undying King on Hardcore anyways.
@@trueevil_5731the reisum bosses are far worse than undying king imo
@@sneaky5141 I would argue that aside from Tian, I would be more worried about Undying King than any of the Reisum bosses. As frustrating as some of them may seem (Obryk), they are generally able to be defeated with consistency. While this isn't strictly untrue for Undying King, he spawns a lot of fairly dangerous mobs that lead to a lot of nonsense and unpredictability to the fight.
@@trueevil_5731 obryk is worse that every other boss in the game for me lol i am so bad at him
It's a very silly and ass-backwards mechanic, frankly- making yourself stronger should not make the game _harder._
There’s a lot more going on than in this demonstration. Your traits have a big impact on your character’s strength and the amount of loot you have allows you to change builds for different situations too. This mechanic just makes sure you’re not invincible so that the game stays interesting.
I agree, scaling difficult based on your level or stat doesn't make the game more fun... Thats why I like games like Elden Ring, where you can feel how strong you get.
What's the point of leveling up if the enemies level up with you?
Ultimately, I guess nothing past ~14, since that's the highest "minimum" world level in Remnant 1. A character with trait points and some bare minimum gear synergy at GS20/WL21 is still going to find the game easier than a character at GS0/WL1 though, so in my mind it's a way to keep the player's insane power keep at least a little bit in check.
@@trueevil_5731But GS1/Traits maxed is easier than GS20/Traits maxed is why the system is fundamentally broken
its not a matter of new character vs. maxed its a matter of you are making the game harder by levelling gear irrelevant of whether your traits are 10 or 1000
@@sneaky5141 I don't misunderstand that. I just don't see the system as broken. A well-equipped character is *so* overpowered, that losing some relative power via scaling is something I prefer. I already considered Apocalypse to be an inadequate challenge after a few hundred hours, so if things were different ("fixed"), it would have felt like even more of a cake walk.
I think the gear score system, however sneaky, does a good job of keeping that power creep in check, unless the player somehow spams a serious number of upgrades without gaining any of the expected power of traits and gear synergy.
I feel the same is true for Remnant 2. The strength of a maxed out character is preeeetty crazy. The time to kill for bosses is very low compared to how it is at a low power level (Rem 2's equivalent of gear score).
Is this the same in remnant 2
It's similar.
I Been telling people this and people think I'm crazy. I beat the whole game on Normal never leaving up Gear score, just traits. It's all you need.
Each region has a minimum gear score in the campaign. For example, the end of Earth in the campaign is, at the very least, scaled as if you had +5 equipment. It will be scaled higher if you arrive there with a higher gear score. These minimums are not applied in Adventure Mode.
This means that by choosing not to upgrade your gear for the campaign, your equipment will be very weak by mid/end game, because the game will still scale those regions up to their respective minimums. You are not able to make your campaigns easier by refusing to level your gear.
Trait Points and Mixing up Gear is the key.
I'm late, but I bet these results fluctuate from world to world.