Get all sides of every story and be better informed at ground.news/AlexOC - subscribe for 40% off unlimited access. Get early, ad-free access to videos at www.alexoconnor.com
You sound like a jew apologist and fail to see the lineage of players then, and now. Who is behind political lawfare in modernity? Zionist jews. Seems you aren’t very good at connecting the dots of reality
It seems that Satan is an idea added to the religious narratives to polarize believers into an "us vs. them" or a "this is war" mentality. This is a common tactic used by narcissists to manipulate and trap people into fighting each other as it's harder to critically think when you're under such mentality (getting emotional and paranoid).
Sorry, but both of you weren't being exactly honest when it came to discussing the Genesis account... 'You can eat of any of the trees in the garden, but you must never eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you were to eat from it, you would surely die.” ' the serpent said to the woman, “Certainly you shall not die! God knows that when you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will become like God, knowing that which is good and that which is evil.” "You shall have to sweat to eat your bread until the day when you return to the earth, for from it you were drawn. You are dust, and unto dust you shall return.” Thus, according to God's judgement, Adam's penalty for eating from the tree of knowledge was death. Hmmm... "Who is Satan?" you ask. well, he's the adversary - the great deceiver - he is the eternal enemy of the kingdom of Christ, and everyone should fear him for that reason alone, if nothing else.
you should talk to Cliffe Alex. Even though I am an atheist myself I think he represents Christianity well. I am just interested in a conversation between you and him. Although I am not exactly sure Cliffe is much of a debater type I think he is just a preacher. Like I don't think his main thing is being a Christian apologetic
Love these conversation with Elaine Pagels. You two have a great academic chemistry and the topics are excellent. She is wonderful to listen to. I vote for making this a regular segment. She might be interested, if we’re so lucky.
if you want to know about Satan. then learn it from the Islamic perspective. because that's the truth no matter how much people hate Islam. you will know the origin of how he (iblis) became Satan. he was a the most pious of all Jinn ( creature created from smokeless fire) who used to worship god. there was a war before Adam (humans) was created. the jinn are powerful beings among other free-will creations of god. God raised iblis ranked to the angles and he was with them in the angelic court. God then sent angles to destroy the evil jinns that were creating mischief. and Iblis volunteered to come this destroy the jinns. only a few left on the earth. iblis who is a jinn then comes back with the angles. god said i am about make a ruler on earth. iblis got really happy because he thought it was him. angles does not have free will they cannot disobey god. god creates adam from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape. and breath a soul into him. then he told them prostate and bow down as a sign of respect. all the angel prostrated except of Iblis he was of the jinn. watch The Jinn Race | Story of the Devil Iblis. you will know everything.
He's got a long way to go. FRED had a super mustache that went down to his lower lip...I tried that once and eating was a nightmare, especially something like buffalo wings
@solidsnake8008 I understand the joke. My confusion is more philosophical. I agree that free will, on a grand scale, doesn't exist. But I don't agree that we are entirely without a say. Even Alex points to this being the case when he said, "You can will what you do, but you can not will what you will." This suggests at least some, if minuscule, amount of control and freedom in our decision-making mechanisms. (... hence the mustache lol.) Jokes aside, I would like to expand on this a little, if you don't mind. It is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. My thoughts currently, and I'm still working this out, is that whatever amout of semi-free-will (sfw for short) that we have is limited more in the present realm than in the temporal realm. Basically, the butterfly effect but for the efficacy of our decisions through time. This means we can't do much about much in a short amount of time, but the amount of control and sfw we encounter is predicate on how much time we commit to that decision. I don't think these are new ideas, I haven't studied philosophy at the level of most scholars. I'm simply trying to articulate these ideas in a way that relates to free-will and my own understanding of things.
@@Ninjaskeptic Unfortunately, I still think you fail to understand the mechanics. The neuroscience is pretty damning. Choices are made before we are aware of them (it's a separate part of the mind that later is made aware of the decision). It's that same ladder part that feels we are in control. Nurture and nature is the end all be-all. You don't have any level of decision-making. Not even "semi-free-will". you cannot act in a vacuum - in a way which doesn't align with innate and conditioned behavior. Even attempting to purposely act contrarily to your previous behaviors (in defiance of determinism) is learned by your environment, perhaps by events that drew awareness to it - and is still a product of nurture. You cannot escape it. Freewill logically makes no sense. It never did.
@@the_luggage Linguistic prescriptivists usually say that fewer and not less should be used with countable nouns,and that less should be used only with uncountable nouns. This distinction was first tentatively suggested by the grammarian Robert Baker in 1770, and it was eventually presented as a rule by many grammarians since then. However, modern linguistics has shown that idiomatic past and current usage consists of the word less with both countable nouns and uncountable nouns so that the traditional rule for the use of the word fewer stands, but not the traditional rule for the use of the word less.
More people need to listen to your podcasts, especially your debates. Also, Elaine has some amazing books out there. I highly recommend them to all! The Gnostic Gospels is one of my personal favorites.
I know this discussion is about Satan's origin, but when discussing where we get our current depiction of Satan from, I'm surprised Dante's "Inferno" wasn't brought up.
I think Dante’s inferno had more influence on the concept of hell as opposed to the character of Satan as he’s just depicted as a three headed demon chewing on three biggest traitors of history while also being punished himself. Not many depictions of Satan tend to fit that description.
I think Satan's red depiction significantly derives from the appearance of a sun-burned person; as in, burned by eternal resistance to the presence of God's light.
Excellent guest. She has opened my eyes to historical knowledge and the political climates that MUST be included in any discussion regarding The Bible. I study her as well as The Bible and am grateful for her! 🙏
Theres nothing i respect more than a religious person whos willing to look at the history of religion through a historical scientific perspective instead of a mythical apologetics perspective. I think more religious people need to realise that you can be both. Scientific minded and religious.
It's really telling of the human development of christianity, that the early church *blamed* Judas and/or Satan for getting crucified. Clearly, *that* doctrine developed before the story that Jesus' death was *necessary,* all a part of God's plan.
@@EattheApple666 Except Jesus (or more likely his fans) revised the rules, and said "take no thought for the morrow". Because, you know, the world was going to end Any Minute Now™.
@@RaiderDave42069 Indeed. Altho Jesus' idea of YOLO was to sell everything, give the money away, and wander the desert with him. Not a very popular lifestyle these days.
God is not described as malevolent in the Old Testament. God is described as just by the authors when doing the brutal things the reader might find malevolent.
Thank you for sharing this interview with us Alex. I will be watching soon. I'm just glad for your inquiry on the matter and for your valuing of dialogue, because dialogue is an action of unity. So thanks!
“No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.” - John 10:18
*@CosmicSkeptic* Alex, I'm not sure why you didn't include Elaine Pagels's name in this video's title? I was ready to skip it, and then I noticed what looked like it might be an older-looking Elaine Pagels whom I remember enjoying on the History Channel back when I still watched TV. I'd suggest editing the video's title and including her name, there might be others who just skip through if they don't recognise her and don't see her name like I almost did.
@tsdvaks I agree, and different groups of people follow different dangerous ideologies and become useful idiots for the government because they listen to silly stories from the media and schools. Manipulation is strong. God have mercy on them.
To understand the connection between mythology and Christianity, it is essential to grasp the significance of mythology in both ancient and modern human history.
The saying/joking around Alex's moustache, which kills all rationale is that the first task of the devil or his modus vivendi is to convince us that he does not exist. As long as you believe that, all acces to such a meaningful talk is closed.
if you want to know about Satan. then learn it from the Islamic perspective. because that's the truth no matter how much people hate Islam. you will know the origin of how he (iblis) became Satan. he was a the most pious of all Jinn ( creature created from smokeless fire) who used to worship god. there was a war before Adam (humans) was created. the jinn are powerful beings among other free-will creations of god. God raised iblis ranked to the angles and he was with them in the angelic court. God then sent angles to destroy the evil jinns that were creating mischief. and Iblis volunteered to come this destroy the jinns. only a few left on the earth. iblis who is a jinn then comes back with the angles. god said i am about make a ruler on earth. iblis got really happy because he thought it was him. angles does not have free will they cannot disobey god. god creates adam from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape. and breath a soul into him. then he told them prostate and bow down as a sign of respect. all the angel prostrated except of Iblis he was of the jinn. watch The Jinn Race | Story of the Devil Iblis. you will know everything.
Mythologically we can easily put lables, be epic, and destroy absolute evil. But this is real life, a much much complex scenario. Loved her lasts words
It's fascinating that all stories need to have an opposing contrast to the virtuous protagonist, to the epic of Gilgamesh, the Vedas, the bible, Shinto and Norse myth and much more...Since the bible and a lot of our modern religions follow this trend of having this necessary evil, doesn't it feel like it's almost as fictitious as all of the stuff I mentioned.
Yea but they would argue this trend of good vs evil derives from god and Satan. Just like why people wanna be kings is because it's derived from the one true king, god. This could be turned the other way around ofcourse.
Or that contrast gives perspective. If everyone behaves the same there is no reference for good or bad. The antagonist and protagonist being opposite ends of the behaviour scale.
As Christians, we believe in evil spirits because we have encountered them just as other religions because we deal with the supernatural. If you don't experience the supernatural, you won't understand
Might be because some ideas/behaviours are objectively either fundamentaly not optimal or incoherent or/and ultimately lead to negative outcomes for either individuals or/and society but nihilist can't or do not want to entertain this idea out of convenience
I'd say it speaks more to our level of knowing and understanding, like the way many might come to a different answer while taking a test about a particular subject. There is an answer. Reason will get us so far. I rather like a "with reason" approach rather than a "within reason" approach.
Thanks for doing this one . Elaine Pagels is one of my favorite authority's on all things Gnostic as well as her books and views on the Christian mythology.
37:02 "[The Jews] didn't have equipment to crucify people. They didn't know how to do it." I sympathize with the statement that an organized public Roman crucifixion wouldn't happen unless the governor ordered or approved it (kind of the way American nuclear weapons won't be used without the president's order). But "didn't have equipment" and "didn't know how to do it" sound incredible: the people who knew how to build houses and giant stone temples somehow didn't have wood and nails and, even if they could have gotten hold of such things, didn't know how to put a post in the ground with a crossbeam and to drive nails through a person?
I think she's trying to make the argument that only Romans could execute people. The local Jewish judges (Sanheddrin) could only pass smaller penalties and resolve civil and religious matters. It's very clear in John 18 that Jesus was executed by the Romans because he was accused of being known as King of the Jews, but it was because of the actions of Caiphas the High Priest. Very confusing she would even try to make such a stupid point.
You're leaving out her premise from a few minutes earlier, about needing the institutional scope of an army and an conquering state . It's not that it's physically impossible for jews to build a cross and nail someone to it, it's that the punishment and it's implementation doesn't come about without the context of a conquering regime and it's particular needs. Absent rome, it's still possible jews would have killed jesus, but it simply couldn't have gone down the same way, politically and socially, and in turn practically.
It is best for all of us to repent. Yeshua will come back to judge the dead and the living. Christ is The Bread of Life and the Way, Truth and the Life.
@@alishalilehI thought Anubis judges our hearts on a scale against a feather when we die to see how righteous we were. Are you suggesting that I have been believing a made up story?
That logic doesn't make sense friend cause if that was the case then you should except other religions God as well. Cause in the end it's the same God. 😅
@EspadaXtri "same God" doesn't make sense if you believe that there's only one God and that God isn't similar to anything/anyone and doesn't have any equals/children/parents. God is the only thing that it's essence and existence are the exact same thing.
Nah, the absolute deity and the sovereign lord deity always fight each other in every mythology. The absolute always humbles the sovereign lord, and the sovereign lord always kils the absolutely... but then the absolute always skips off laughing after he's killed, telling the sovereign deity "know your place, lil kingling. And, play it well, or the next omnimpotent omniscient will get to kill me next time. Peace, I'm out."😂
I’m loving these theological episodes, please keep them up. I’m endlessly fascinated by the roots of the bible as a text but it’s so hard to find decent content on this that isn’t fronted by an evangelical Christian.
i picked up my bag, went looking for a place to hide when i saw carmen and the devil walking side by side. i said, "hey carmen, come on let's go downtown", she said "i gotta go but my friend can stick around"
It seems to me that Satan, portrayed as punishing those who have offended god, is working for god. This completely dismisses any notion that god is benevolent and good, a being worthy of respect.
Political dichotomy runs far deeper than just a couple verses in a book. The evolutionary adaptation of recognizing in group vs out group is pivotal for a social species surviving in a harsh environment.
Strange how the only time Elaine used strong and definitive language when answering whether the jews were responsible for the death of Jesus. “An impossible story!” “That could NOT have happened!”
If I may give my opinion, the Jews crucifying Jesus was not an antisemitic cope by early Christians; it was the dovetail of the Old Testament, and a necessary logical prerequisite for Christianity. This is the Cycle of History in the Old Testament: The people fall into sin and suffer. In their suffering they call for God. God sends a prophet to carry the Word. The prophet blames the people, the people get angry because they don't want the burden of responsibility, and so they reject the prophet. Eventually they suffer enough and so repent, and so they prosper. Then the cycle repeats. The Gospels are the archetype of this. The Jews fall into sin and are conquered by the Romans. In their suffering they call for God. God sends The Word (Christ). The Word blames the people, the people get angry because they don't want the burden of responsibility, and so they kill The Word, and with it God. The Israelites are the sons of Abraham, and thus God's chosen people. Because they keep the law and maintain a higher degree of responsibility than other nations, they are blessed by him. But because by crucifying Christ the sons of Abraham by blood rejected God's Word, and because throughout the Gospels the gentiles are shown to be more willing to listen to The Word than the Jews and keep the spirit of the law, the crucifixion of Christ by the Jews and Christ's subsequent Resurrection modifies the covenant so that the "children of Abraham" are now those who have faith in God as Abraham did, rather than those simply of blood descent from Abraham. (The covenent of flesh dies and is reborn as the covenent of spirit, to lift phrasing from the Epistles) This justifies spreading the Word to the gentiles, as the children of Abraham are now dispersed across the nations waiting to be converted, rather than concentrated purely among the Jews and their Semitic cousins. People actually believed (and still believe) in this stuff, and to think that believers of the first century (many of them willing to and having died for their beliefs) would defile their sacred stories for a shallow spin doctor campaign is stupid. Plus Paul writes things theologically congruent to this in his letters before the Jewish revolt even happened.
People are willing to die over others’ falsehoods all the time. Look how many people wanna start a Civil War in America because they believe the lies about the elections
@@theobjectivereality1837 One of the assumptions in this video was that early Christians telling Romans "It's not you, it's their fault" was a pragmatic invention to curry favor with pagan audiences, and that they kept modifying the Crucifixion story more and more to make the Romans more innocent and the Jewish people more guilty with that goal in mind. That would be the spin doctor campaign. It's shallow because it ignores the deeper consequences and implications of Abrahamic theology that I outlined in my comment. I wish I could be more specific and point to parts of the video to support this, but it's been a few days since I watched this video so I don't remember it terrifically.
@@theobjectivereality1837 I posted a reply, but it got deleted for some reason. Here's a shorter one. If I remember the video right (it's been a few days), they make the claim that early Christians kept making Judeans more guilty and Romans more innocent in the Crucifixion with the pragmatic goal of winning favor and converts from the Romans. That is the spin doctor campaign. It's shallow because it ignores the deeper implications of Abrahamic theology that I wrote of above.
Very well explained! It's a proof alone for me that the bible is true.. because even though it is the most sold book on the planet.. noone knows what it says.. just as the Bible it-self explains. To every Christian who has the sprit, it is a compelling truth.
Where did you got these idea ?????? Two spy plane fly above in North Korea when it was hit. The drunkard devil ordered a nuclear bombardment including the innocent people down there. In the future God reward them in 2 Kings 1 :10 ( KJV ) - if you watch " Dark Waters #shorts# The Man on that possession he has an elastic skin
I’m so glad you got Elaine on the pod again! Side note, I really hope to hear from more women in this space. Historically women have been disregarded and silenced in the study of philosophy for so long, so I’d love if you’d platform more women on your channel if you can find some more scholars or other creators that align with your type of content! 😊
Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
You are me both. It's hard to believe the that those people were feeding me with guilt and self hatred for years, yet it happened. I don't think my brain will ever completely recover.
Sorry that you have to go through all, the people who preach hell to scare people aren't really what Jesus wants instead it's about a relationship with Jesus Christ... Still sorry for what you've been through...
My childhood trauma didn't come directly from religion it came from a pedophile father and a mother who allowed it because she hated me a child named: You Little mother fker... for ruining her life , yes I was 6 years old on my first day of kindergarten B4 I found out that was not my name at all.
It feels like a false dichotomy when talking about whether it was the jews or the Romans who crucified Jesus. It seems the jews wanted it, and the Romans were happy to oblige.
And not all the Jews too specifically the high priests thats are Pharasees and saducees. The Gospel is about the Jewish Messiah! Her argument that the masses couldn’t have condemned Jesus because elsewhere it says that the multitude followed him and loved him is ignoring that societies arent always in agreement. There couldve been a part of the population that loved Jesus and the others that sided with the high priests. Also in the Old testatement, the Jewish authorities have put to death their own prophets (Elijah, Zechariah, Isaiah). Thats what I get from the persecution of Jesus by the high court. Another prophet that came for the salvation of his people, killed by his people. Not antisemetism
@@Wakkks True. You should consider more than just the act in a crime. Yeah, it's like, they couldn't have figured out how to put a guy on a cross. An act they had seen done to them for decades (not that they did that even). But, she's taking normative behavior for granted.
Yeah I dunno what she's on about here. The apostles were trying to save the jews by saying the Romans didn't actually do it, but it was the jews so they could save themselves but were all killed anyway so.... ???
I still remember your video "why I'm still scared of hell" or something like this quite a while ago - after all this years being an atheist I don't have flashbacks or something like this anymore but I just realising, to go into this subject so deep, is still somehow scary 😬 but very good video and important too 👍
No matter the belief, all life’s biggest questions are terrifying. However, the statistical unlikelihood that we would’ve existed at all makes me feel a little lucky. And as a wise man once said “I spent billions of years not existing and wasn’t inconvenienced in the slightest”, I’m sure eternity after will be about the same.
@@josiahz21 I agree with you. All existential questions are a bit scary. But hell and devil are special 😬 I don’t believe any of that but videos like this still can make nightmares in contrast to “normal” unknown questions only make a sleepless night. Bit I also like the quotation, I will think more on it 🙂
@@nannakurzhaar my feeble attempt to make you feel better. It hasn’t helped me too much either. George Carlin said it first and does a much better job, if you’ve not heard him. While I may miss the sense of community church gave me I do not miss the fire and brimstone talk.
@@josiahz21 thanks for trying 🤗 And kudos to Alex O’Connor for doing so well - we are from a similar background (and I guess it shows that my deconstruction is not complete yet)
@@nannakurzhaar Rome wasn’t built in a day. I imagine I’ll be dealing with the trauma for the rest of my life. It is a better life, a truer one, and even if I wanted to am not capable of going back. Carry on friendo. Break those chains.
37:49 To play devil’s advocate, I’m struggling to parse the narrative that early Christians altered the story around who killed Jesus to save their skin when supposedly they were all willing to die for his story anyhow, and many of them did in fact do so.
I see tour point. I do think there is definitely something fishy going on with how Roman's are depicted in the new testament though. Especially seeing as how Christianity was ultimately co opted and broadened by the Roman's themselves
So philosophically theologocially we are saved through God's grace, God saves Us. God choose to come to earth you know the story....Jesus came her and died for our sins to forgive us of our sins and make it possible for us to get enternal life and join God in heaven or the kingdom of Heaven on Earth etc. It was God's choice to die. It was Jesus's choice, it was the entire plan and reason he came here. That was his mission and what he wanted to do. So ultimately, it was God who choose to kill God. The God head choose and was ultimately responsible for Jesus being killed. He was killed because he claimed to be the messiah true king of the Jews which would free Isreal from Roman rule....by Roman law he had to be killed. So if people were looking for the humans ultimately respnonsible or had ultimately say in the situation ignoring the God thing I said before....it was the Romans. Christians were a Jewish sect, kinda hard especially after the Jewish revolt to spread a religion in which the Roman's killed and are responsible for killing God, who was the true Jewish King, and that Israel and the Jews not Rome and the Romans will and should be the most powerful nation/people on Earth and lead the world etc.
I read this book years ago. It's a great all-time riveting read. I too used to think that Satan was a red devil with horns and a pitchfork, then one day, as a kid in elementary school, I was watching Firing Line on PBS. There was this man, William F. Buckley Jr. He was calm, soft spoken and reasonable, but he had an air of superiority about him. Then when he said, "gays should be isolated, imprisoned, and forced to wear a pink triangle," I was shocked. It was then that I learned that Satan wasn't a red devil with a pitchfork but a white man in a suit. It's a lesson I'll never forget.
Not just a white man but men in general. white men blame Satan and black men blame the the white man both blame the women neither blame THEIR selves for all the hate greed war and death they spread amongst their fellow man.
The Jews were too responsible for jesus's death. They were given the choice of releasing Barabbas or Jesus and and they definitely didn't choose releasing Jesus. Pilot said I wash my hands of this , he left it to the Jews to decide .
@Tomf-tz4pd Look up the article referenced below by Michael Sherlock. --------------------------------------------------------- *The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.*** *Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.*** ***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service. *"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"* *"Sumerian Is the World's Oldest Written Language | ProLingo"* *"Sumerian Civilization: Inventing the Future - World History Encyclopedia"* ("The Sumerians were the people of southern Mesopotamia whose civilization flourished between c. 4100-1750 BCE." "Ancient Israelites and their origins date back to 1800-1200 BCE.") *"The Myth of Adapa - World History Encyclopedia"* Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:50 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes. From a Biblical scholar: "Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."* *"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"* ------------------------------------------------------------------ In addition, look up the below articles. *"Genesis 1:1-2 --- not a creation ex nihilo"* - Dr Steven DiMattei *"Yahweh was just an ancient Canaanite god. We have been deceived! - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* *"Hammurabi - World History Encyclopedia"* (Hammurabi (r. 1792-1750 BCE) was the sixth king of the Amorite First Dynasty of Babylon best known for his famous law code which served as the model for others, *including the Mosaic Law of the Bible.)* *"Debunking the Devil - Michael A. Sherlock (Author)"* *"The Greatest Trick Religion Ever Pulled: Convincing Us That Satan Exists | Atheomedy"* *"Zoroastrianism And Persian Mythology: The Foundation Of Belief"* (Scroll to the last section: Zoroastrianism is the Foundation of Western Belief) *"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"* *"January | 2014 | Atheomedy"* - Where the Hell Did the Idea of Hell Come From? *"Retired bishop explains the reason why the Church invented "Hell" - Ideapod"* Watch *"The Origins of Salvation, Judgement and Hell"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica (Sensitive theists should only watch from 7:00 to 17:30 minutes as evangelical Christians are lambasted. He's a former theist and has been studying the scholarship and comparative religions for over 15 years) *"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"* *"Forget about Noah's Ark; There Was No Worldwide Flood | Bible Interp"* *"The Search for Noah’s Flood - Biblical Archaeology Society"* *"Eridu Genesis - World History Encyclopedia"* *"The Atrahasis Epic: The Great Flood & the Meaning of Suffering - World History Encyclopedia"* Watch *"How Aron Ra Debunks Noah's Flood"* (8 part series debunking Noah's flood using multiple branches of science) *"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"* *"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"* *"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"* *"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"* *"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"* *"Studying the Bible"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei (This particular article from a critical Biblical scholar highlights how the authors of the Hebrew Bible used their *fictional* god as a mouthpiece for their own views and ideologies) *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history?"* -- by Dr Steven DiMattei *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei
@@Dovahkiin0117 I do not think they are enemy in that regard either. If Satan was really God's enemy then God would have destroyed him. But the fact that God allowed Satan to be and gave him the kingdom of hell and allowed him to reign over the world to be the force of dark tells me that Satan is much needed force that God allowed to be because he is useful
What an amazing podcast. Alex and Ellen together are so cool to listen to. For my personal take, I don't like to see Satan as this external being. I think of Satan as the temptation inherited in our Human Nature to do bad things (or at least to do what we perdonally know is not right). To me, saying, for example that suffering is cause by this fallen angel, takes a whole lot of responsibility from humanity and from us. Also by the fact that sometimes bad things happen, with no ill intention from humans. Mmm maybe I don't know how to express the whole idea perfectly. But also, I'm not a very eloquent person 😅 But well, that's why Jesus is tempted, being partly human, he is really experiencing this part of the human nature that is probably new to him (if we consider Jesus existed before being born). But yeah, I'm rumbling about a little. Thanks if you read everything ❤
Hey Alex, great episode as always. Just one note: 51:19 The idea of "300 years of persecution" is no longer the consensus among scholars, specially after Dr. Candida Moss wrote her critically acclaimed book “The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom”. Maybe you should have her on your show!
*Larry Burkett's book on "Giving and Tithing" drew me closer to God and helped my spirituality. 2020 was a year I literally lived it. I cashed in my life savings and gave it all away. My total giving amounted to 40,000 dollars. Everyone thought I was delusional. Today, 1 receive 85,000 dollars every two months. I have a property in Calabasas, CA, and travel a lot. God has promoted me more than once and opened doors for me to live beyond my dreams. God kept to his promises to and for me*
It is the digital market. That's been the secret to this wealth transfer. A lot of folks in the US and abroad are getting so much from it, God has been good to my household Thank you Jesus
The translation is a bit more nuanced, because it also means accuser or someone who obstructs. However, considering that the satan in Job does exactly as yahweh tells him to do and yahweh listens to him and lets him torture the man, it is not very sound to believe that the title refers to yahweh's adversary but more to an accuser of mankind, someone who acts in opposition to humans as a way of testing their "worth" but at the end serves yahweh, because he ends up reaffirming his power.
@@eprd313 that is a gross way of looking at the situation. Evil does Evil by permission of God, Satan knows he has his limits "There hath no temptation taken hold of you but such as is common to man. But God is faithful; He will not suffer you to be tempted beyond that which ye are able to bear, but with the temptation will also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." Satan does not serve God.... and the time will come when God will give this world up to his master... Satan accuses Job's obedience as being fake... not out of love.. Satan is an accuser and someone that obstructs... as revenge against God his mission is to ensure that every son and daughter of Adam and Eve will be destroyed in fire like him. Evil being regulated does not mean Satan is an agent of God
I don't click on videos to read hilarious comments myself, but I just clicked on a different video that might be right up your alley: *_Was Jesus Actually The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? - Alex O’Connor_* It's on Chris Williamson's channel. I haven't watched it yet, but there should be some interesting comments underneath it. *Reply to:* _"I read the title and knew the comments would be hilarious "_
About the sponsor vidéo: i always have a problem when people talk about "media bias" negatively. Media biases are not a problem as long as good journalistic practices are enforced in a newsroom through a strict and precise deontological code. Furthermore there can be no such thing as unbiased news, as any retelling of an event will come from a given perspective and point of view, whether it is acknowledged by the redactor or not. Being left or right wing is never a problem if you report facts acurately and you are honest about what your assumptions are and where they come from in your editorializing.
Interest and emphasis on a topic or news can be viewed as biased if there's a pattern to it. Omission of something can be interpreted as a form of censorship or simply trivial/uninteresting. Of course not everything is necessarily biased, coincidences do happen, that's why large sampling is valuable.
Fair point, except media biases aren't kept in check by good journalism anymore. I can't think of a single outlet that wouldn't blatantly lie to protect their sponsors or benefactors. Even the papers that are supposedly supported by subscriptions are rife with poor journalism. Apparently at some point it became acceptable to just copy amd paste tweets onto an article and call it a day. If journalists want their industry to be respected by the broader public they have a LOT of damage control to do. My newsfeed is currently about 85% GPT generated text and the other 15% are typos, quotes and ads. We need journalism, it's important for society to function properly but for the last ten years most of us are fending for ourselves and you've lost out trust. I hope that this is reversible and something we learn from but right now you'd have to pay me to read some of the drivel that passes for news these days. "You won't believe what Local Supermarket Shoppers found!" (It's discounted food items, but you wouldn't have guessed!)
@@SineN0mine3 I mostly read news in French and Spanish, but I know a lot of independent news media who do amazing work. If you want to learn about everything Russia in english from a redaction in exile I can strongly recommend Meduza. Also in english, Haaretz gives good coverage of the Israelo-palestinian conflict from a center-left perspective (not independent though).
Where in Genesis does it say “Satan” ? Believe it or not (you won’t believe anything your authority doesn’t tell you) but your religion is fake and an evolution of previous religions.
From Matthew 27: "24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a [c]tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, “I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it.” 25 And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.” 26 Then he released Barabbas to them; and when he had [e]scourged Jesus, he delivered Him to be crucified." The heart were the Jews. The hand were the roman soldiers, the head was Pilate. The heart convinced the head to order his hands. Furthermore, Pilate was far from pictured as a weak man. A weak man wouldn't have struggled with this situation. Ultimately, he helped is our salvation by doing the will of the Father. EDIT: Everytime I watch a video after Alex had a talk with Jonathan Pageau, it's as if he hadn't retained any information at all. Adam and Eve do die. God do not lie.
This was also prefigured in Daniel's lions' den story: Daniel: 6 It pleased Darius to appoint 120 satraps to rule throughout the kingdom, 2 with three administrators over them, one of whom was Daniel. The satraps were made accountable to them so that the king might not suffer loss. 3 Now Daniel so distinguished himself among the administrators and the satraps by his exceptional qualities that the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 At this, the administrators and the satraps tried to find grounds for charges against Daniel in his conduct of government affairs, but they were unable to do so. They could find no corruption in him, because he was trustworthy and neither corrupt nor negligent. 5 Finally these men said, “We will never find any basis for charges against this man Daniel unless it has something to do with the law of his God.” 6 So these administrators and satraps went as a group to the king and said: “May King Darius live forever! 7 The royal administrators, prefects, satraps, advisers and governors have all agreed that the king should issue an edict and enforce the decree that anyone who prays to any god or human being during the next thirty days, except to you, Your Majesty, shall be thrown into the lions’ den. 8 Now, Your Majesty, issue the decree and put it in writing so that it cannot be altered-in accordance with the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be repealed.” 9 So King Darius put the decree in writing. 10 Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before. 11 Then these men went as a group and found Daniel praying and asking God for help. 12 So they went to the king and spoke to him about his royal decree: “Did you not publish a decree that during the next thirty days anyone who prays to any god or human being except to you, Your Majesty, would be thrown into the lions’ den?” The king answered, “The decree stands-in accordance with the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be repealed.” 13 Then they said to the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, Your Majesty, or to the decree you put in writing. He still prays three times a day.” 14 When the king heard this, he was greatly distressed; he was determined to rescue Daniel and made every effort until sundown to save him. 15 Then the men went as a group to King Darius and said to him, “Remember, Your Majesty, that according to the law of the Medes and Persians no decree or edict that the king issues can be changed.” 16 So the king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lions’ den. The king said to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you!”
@@kc_h7hlet's say you're God and created intelligent life form to go live for eternity in some utopia, wouldn't you have some kind of trial to select only those deserving(fit) to go there?
You have to see religions as moral system and technology then you'd understand these were very important for humanity and the development of societies, story telling/symbolism, archetypes are very powerful tools to help promote certain moral values and behaviours in order for society to not collapse like atheists societies currently are because of fragile ego, nihilism, kumbaya weakness and hedonistic degeneracy
Get all sides of every story and be better informed at ground.news/AlexOC - subscribe for 40% off unlimited access. Get early, ad-free access to videos at www.alexoconnor.com
You sound like a jew apologist and fail to see the lineage of players then, and now. Who is behind political lawfare in modernity? Zionist jews. Seems you aren’t very good at connecting the dots of reality
It seems that Satan is an idea added to the religious narratives to polarize believers into an "us vs. them" or a "this is war" mentality. This is a common tactic used by narcissists to manipulate and trap people into fighting each other as it's harder to critically think when you're under such mentality (getting emotional and paranoid).
These outros getting crispier
Sorry, but both of you weren't being exactly honest when it came to discussing the Genesis account...
'You can eat of any of the trees in the garden, but you must never eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you were to eat from it, you would surely die.”
' the serpent said to the woman, “Certainly you shall not die! God knows that when you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will become like God, knowing that which is good and that which is evil.”
"You shall have to sweat to eat your bread until the day when you return to the earth, for from it you were drawn.
You are dust, and unto dust you shall return.”
Thus, according to God's judgement, Adam's penalty for eating from the tree of knowledge was death.
Hmmm...
"Who is Satan?" you ask.
well, he's the adversary - the great deceiver - he is the eternal enemy of the kingdom of Christ, and everyone should fear him for that reason alone, if nothing else.
you should talk to Cliffe Alex. Even though I am an atheist myself I think he represents Christianity well. I am just interested in a conversation between you and him. Although I am not exactly sure Cliffe is much of a debater type I think he is just a preacher. Like I don't think his main thing is being a Christian apologetic
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't have a moustache.
I mean if bibi didn't shave twice a day one would grow on his upper lip every morning
Sexy and old school!
… and a British accent lol
That he doesn't exist***
@@Jesuslordoflords-y4mConsidering that everywhere on Earth is aware of the Bible, I'd say Satan failed miserably.
Everyone asks "who is the devil?" No one ever asks "how is the devil?' 😔
A better question is "why is the devil?"
But where is the Devil?
Don’t. We all saw baal
People don't think deeply enough on topics, especially pertaining to their own belief systems and the church.
"why believe in the devil?"
Love these conversation with Elaine Pagels. You two have a great academic chemistry and the topics are excellent. She is wonderful to listen to. I vote for making this a regular segment. She might be interested, if we’re so lucky.
I agree 100%
I agree as well, but only 99%
Hear...hear...
if you want to know about Satan. then learn it from the Islamic perspective. because that's the truth no matter how much people hate Islam. you will know the origin of how he (iblis) became Satan. he was a the most pious of all Jinn ( creature created from smokeless fire) who used to worship god. there was a war before Adam (humans) was created. the jinn are powerful beings among other free-will creations of god. God raised iblis ranked to the angles and he was with them in the angelic court. God then sent angles to destroy the evil jinns that were creating mischief. and Iblis volunteered to come this destroy the jinns. only a few left on the earth. iblis who is a jinn then comes back with the angles. god said i am about make a ruler on earth. iblis got really happy because he thought it was him. angles does not have free will they cannot disobey god. god creates adam from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape. and breath a soul into him. then he told them prostate and bow down as a sign of respect. all the angel prostrated except of Iblis he was of the jinn. watch The Jinn Race | Story of the Devil Iblis. you will know everything.
@@lokidedbeat1878 I bet iblis were wearing headphones and listened refuse/resist by Sepultura while disobeying direct order from gOD.
A long time ago, the church realised that fear is more pervasive than love.
So did capitalism.
@theconversationalpainter2020 no. Capitalism employed the 7 deadly sins and made them out to be harmless.
Oh yes the fear of living a morally good life, the horror! 😂
THE HORROR!
@@Special_Tactics_Force_Unit the morally good life of the Christian Church over the centuries is full of horror .. real horror.
Its all about free will, just like the court of justice victims want criminals punished
You could add her name to the title. There is no introduction, and Elaine Pagels has a name deserving of the achievements of her studies.
He's already done a video with her, thats probably why he didn't give her an actual intro
@@jacksonbenincosa3759 I know, but still...
Yeah, very poor decision. It's in the description and it is in the thumbnail, but still it should be there
I thought she was an idiot, she couldn't even stay on topic.
People always trying to find ways to nitpick.
Alex O'Connor is slowly turning into Friedrich Nietzsche
Hopefully not as successful with the ladies.
@@eeeqqq7582 Alex can play guitar and sing, and he is highly intelligent, he's probably very successful with the ladies
Freddy NeitStache?
Fried O'Nietzcher
He's got a long way to go. FRED had a super mustache that went down to his lower lip...I tried that once and eating was a nightmare, especially something like buffalo wings
The fact Alex is sporting that moustache proves free will does not exist.
I think it proves freewill does exist, not sure how you came to that conclusion lol. But yeah, shave the stash lol!
Staches indicate.
@@NinjaskepticThe joke was probably that no one would choose that moustache if they could
@solidsnake8008 I understand the joke. My confusion is more philosophical. I agree that free will, on a grand scale, doesn't exist. But I don't agree that we are entirely without a say. Even Alex points to this being the case when he said, "You can will what you do, but you can not will what you will." This suggests at least some, if minuscule, amount of control and freedom in our decision-making mechanisms. (... hence the mustache lol.) Jokes aside, I would like to expand on this a little, if you don't mind. It is something I've been thinking about a lot lately.
My thoughts currently, and I'm still working this out, is that whatever amout of semi-free-will (sfw for short) that we have is limited more in the present realm than in the temporal realm. Basically, the butterfly effect but for the efficacy of our decisions through time. This means we can't do much about much in a short amount of time, but the amount of control and sfw we encounter is predicate on how much time we commit to that decision.
I don't think these are new ideas, I haven't studied philosophy at the level of most scholars. I'm simply trying to articulate these ideas in a way that relates to free-will and my own understanding of things.
@@Ninjaskeptic Unfortunately, I still think you fail to understand the mechanics. The neuroscience is pretty damning. Choices are made before we are aware of them (it's a separate part of the mind that later is made aware of the decision). It's that same ladder part that feels we are in control. Nurture and nature is the end all be-all. You don't have any level of decision-making. Not even "semi-free-will". you cannot act in a vacuum - in a way which doesn't align with innate and conditioned behavior. Even attempting to purposely act contrarily to your previous behaviors (in defiance of determinism) is learned by your environment, perhaps by events that drew awareness to it - and is still a product of nurture. You cannot escape it.
Freewill logically makes no sense. It never did.
The generation gap is insane. The lady on the right has less pixels than his entire mustache.
Alex is sporting a 70's porn mustache. lol
*fewer
@@the_luggage I'm not a native speaker.
Genius comment. Love it!
@@the_luggage Linguistic prescriptivists usually say that fewer and not less should be used with countable nouns,and that less should be used only with uncountable nouns. This distinction was first tentatively suggested by the grammarian Robert Baker in 1770, and it was eventually presented as a rule by many grammarians since then. However, modern linguistics has shown that idiomatic past and current usage consists of the word less with both countable nouns and uncountable nouns so that the traditional rule for the use of the word fewer stands, but not the traditional rule for the use of the word less.
alex this moustache might be the single largest driver of channel engagement. it's like a third of the comments 😭😂
...way more then a third. 😳
I clicked for a conversation
I was rewarded with a conversation and a host with his mustache ^_^
I like the moustache
I love listening to these conversations late at night, they help me fall asleep
They give me nightmares
Episode about Satan sporting an evil mustache. Perfect.
evil mustache or very hungry caterpillar?
and horns growing out of his ears
novel
It’s her hormones - she is old, it’s not her fault.
More people need to listen to your podcasts, especially your debates.
Also, Elaine has some amazing books out there. I highly recommend them to all! The Gnostic Gospels is one of my personal favorites.
Agree
I read that in 1990.. fascinating book.. at a time when mainstream Christians have not even heard of the phrase “ gnostic gospels”..
Her knowledge, passion, and energy on the topic is incredible.
What a great episode, a real honor to learn from Elaine. Great guests as always!
Having the great guests you do have is testament to how well you present yourself.
I know this discussion is about Satan's origin, but when discussing where we get our current depiction of Satan from, I'm surprised Dante's "Inferno" wasn't brought up.
I think Dante’s inferno had more influence on the concept of hell as opposed to the character of Satan as he’s just depicted as a three headed demon chewing on three biggest traitors of history while also being punished himself. Not many depictions of Satan tend to fit that description.
@@CyrokineticGuy-cu5qt Yeah, you are right.
I think Satan's red depiction significantly derives from the appearance of a sun-burned person; as in, burned by eternal resistance to the presence of God's light.
@@CyrokineticGuy-cu5qtparadise lost however paints him in a very interesting way
Alex is a wikipedia academic. you can't expect him to have cultural knowledge like that.
The direction of the inquiries into history on this channel is in my opinion amazing and honest
That mustache took Alex from Cambridge philosopher to extra in Smokey and the Bandit.
You mean Oxford philosopher?
@@davidandersson1961 well I’ve embarrassed myself
He's no Burt Reynolds. How about a certain foreign exchange aide de camp trying to talk Jack D Ripper down from the ledge?
On the road to 1 mil subs Alex. Big congrats for how far you've come!
Excellent guest. She has opened my eyes to historical knowledge and the political climates that MUST be included in any discussion regarding The Bible. I study her as well as The Bible and am grateful for her! 🙏
Theres nothing i respect more than a religious person whos willing to look at the history of religion through a historical scientific perspective instead of a mythical apologetics perspective. I think more religious people need to realise that you can be both. Scientific minded and religious.
βοτΗ ΤΗΕ Σαμε
It's really telling of the human development of christianity, that the early church *blamed* Judas and/or Satan for getting crucified. Clearly, *that* doctrine developed before the story that Jesus' death was *necessary,* all a part of God's plan.
So God wanted me to wake up and go to a job everyday and get paid peanuts? And I'm supposed to follow him? Thanks for nothing.
@@EattheApple666 Except Jesus (or more likely his fans) revised the rules, and said "take no thought for the morrow". Because, you know, the world was going to end Any Minute Now™.
@@jursamaj so... YOLO?!
@@RaiderDave42069 Indeed. Altho Jesus' idea of YOLO was to sell everything, give the money away, and wander the desert with him. Not a very popular lifestyle these days.
@@jursamaj with enough peyote I might be convinced into a wandering desert party
I’ll say it again: Elaine Pagels is amazing. Especially for her age.
"for her age"
😂😂😂😂😂😂 😢
Keep it in your pants.
She's very sharp minded. I'm a senior and struggle with my memory every day.
@@dbarker7794 The media narrative about Biden's "dementia" has really fucked with people's understanding of how aging works
Bet you won't say it again
The greatest trick the Russel's Teapot has ever pulled was convincing people it doesn't exist
Along with pot head pixies and the invisible planet round which said teapot orbits.
@@opinion3742Gongtastic!
“How do you shoot Russel’s teapot in the back?
What if you miss?”
@@jbapples4611 What if you hit something that is not there?
She said there is no malevolent spirit in Judaism. I would say God is quite malevolent many times , throughout Judaism.
Exactly old testament is full of gods hate and anger and fear of god.
God is not described as malevolent in the Old Testament. God is described as just by the authors when doing the brutal things the reader might find malevolent.
@@ChaoMung-t9u Psalm 137:8-9
@@voidgazerwisco the Author of that Psalm obviously thinks that's a good thing.
You don't get my point.
By what standard is God malovelant? Yours? How convinient?
Thank you Elaine and Alex. What a brilliant conversation. 🔥
Thank you for sharing this interview with us Alex. I will be watching soon. I'm just glad for your inquiry on the matter and for your valuing of dialogue, because dialogue is an action of unity. So thanks!
“No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.” - John 10:18
This was great. Thank you, Alex and Elaine.
I love this woman’s mannerisms and enthusiasm for the subject matter
I read the Origin of Satan years ago and absolutely loved it. I learned so much. I love this conversation!
*@CosmicSkeptic* Alex, I'm not sure why you didn't include Elaine Pagels's name in this video's title?
I was ready to skip it, and then I noticed what looked like it might be an older-looking Elaine Pagels whom I remember enjoying on the History Channel back when I still watched TV.
I'd suggest editing the video's title and including her name, there might be others who just skip through if they don't recognise her and don't see her name like I almost did.
The evolution of satan is an interesting topic indeed, thanks a million for covering it 😊 having gone through some church trauma, it helps a lot ❤
As a Christian, I think we have all gone through church trauma. People aren't perfect, and some are cultists.
@@sally9352& some are dangerous people, manipulating followers with silly stories
@tsdvaks I agree, and different groups of people follow different dangerous ideologies and become useful idiots for the government because they listen to silly stories from the media and schools. Manipulation is strong. God have mercy on them.
@@sally9352 My church has been great so far. I hope I would not have to face that.
The Evolution of Satan, apparently he is related to the Tasmanian Devil.
To understand the connection between mythology and Christianity, it is essential to grasp the significance of mythology in both ancient and modern human history.
This was an absolutely mind blowing episode…. And the whole comment section somehow turned into brain-rot 😑
The saying/joking around Alex's moustache, which kills all rationale is that the first task of the devil or his modus vivendi is to convince us that he does not exist. As long as you believe that, all acces to such a meaningful talk is closed.
if you want to know about Satan. then learn it from the Islamic perspective. because that's the truth no matter how much people hate Islam. you will know the origin of how he (iblis) became Satan. he was a the most pious of all Jinn ( creature created from smokeless fire) who used to worship god. there was a war before Adam (humans) was created. the jinn are powerful beings among other free-will creations of god. God raised iblis ranked to the angles and he was with them in the angelic court. God then sent angles to destroy the evil jinns that were creating mischief. and Iblis volunteered to come this destroy the jinns. only a few left on the earth. iblis who is a jinn then comes back with the angles. god said i am about make a ruler on earth. iblis got really happy because he thought it was him. angles does not have free will they cannot disobey god. god creates adam from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape. and breath a soul into him. then he told them prostate and bow down as a sign of respect. all the angel prostrated except of Iblis he was of the jinn. watch The Jinn Race | Story of the Devil Iblis. you will know everything.
Mind blowing… are you brand new to Christian history?
Mythologically we can easily put lables, be epic, and destroy absolute evil. But this is real life, a much much complex scenario. Loved her lasts words
'Ready, Freddie?' Alex gonna start singing... 'Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me, for me, for me' in a minute...
Hard (no pun intended) to say whether his abiding interest in Christianity or the moustache make his mouth appear to be so penis friendly.
It's fascinating that all stories need to have an opposing contrast to the virtuous protagonist, to the epic of Gilgamesh, the Vedas, the bible, Shinto and Norse myth and much more...Since the bible and a lot of our modern religions follow this trend of having this necessary evil, doesn't it feel like it's almost as fictitious as all of the stuff I mentioned.
Yea but they would argue this trend of good vs evil derives from god and Satan. Just like why people wanna be kings is because it's derived from the one true king, god.
This could be turned the other way around ofcourse.
Or that contrast gives perspective. If everyone behaves the same there is no reference for good or bad. The antagonist and protagonist being opposite ends of the behaviour scale.
As Christians, we believe in evil spirits because we have encountered them just as other religions because we deal with the supernatural. If you don't experience the supernatural, you won't understand
Might be because some ideas/behaviours are objectively either fundamentaly not optimal or incoherent or/and ultimately lead to negative outcomes for either individuals or/and society but nihilist can't or do not want to entertain this idea out of convenience
I'd say it speaks more to our level of knowing and understanding, like the way many might come to a different answer while taking a test about a particular subject. There is an answer. Reason will get us so far. I rather like a "with reason" approach rather than a "within reason" approach.
great, great interview! those last minutes were completely mindblowing to me
Thanks for doing this one . Elaine Pagels is one of my favorite authority's on all things Gnostic as well as her books and views on the Christian mythology.
If even Alex can’t make the mustache work, I’m more confident than ever that I never could.
I adore this type of discussion. What was written? Who wrote it? What was going on in society at the time?
Love that discussion
37:02 "[The Jews] didn't have equipment to crucify people. They didn't know how to do it." I sympathize with the statement that an organized public Roman crucifixion wouldn't happen unless the governor ordered or approved it (kind of the way American nuclear weapons won't be used without the president's order). But "didn't have equipment" and "didn't know how to do it" sound incredible: the people who knew how to build houses and giant stone temples somehow didn't have wood and nails and, even if they could have gotten hold of such things, didn't know how to put a post in the ground with a crossbeam and to drive nails through a person?
I think she's trying to make the argument that only Romans could execute people. The local Jewish judges (Sanheddrin) could only pass smaller penalties and resolve civil and religious matters.
It's very clear in John 18 that Jesus was executed by the Romans because he was accused of being known as King of the Jews, but it was because of the actions of Caiphas the High Priest. Very confusing she would even try to make such a stupid point.
Every time they tried to make crosses they came out as six sided stars...
"I'm telling you, a right angle is 60° I wrote it right here on my hand!"
You're leaving out her premise from a few minutes earlier, about needing the institutional scope of an army and an conquering state . It's not that it's physically impossible for jews to build a cross and nail someone to it, it's that the punishment and it's implementation doesn't come about without the context of a conquering regime and it's particular needs.
Absent rome, it's still possible jews would have killed jesus, but it simply couldn't have gone down the same way, politically and socially, and in turn practically.
and this is why context is important.
Thank you, Alex, for jumping right in.
Thanks Alex for this wonderful conversation. Would love to see more conversations with Elaine Pagels.
The six words missing from the biblical - i.e. Greek - corpus are: "Once upon a time", and "The End".
It is best for all of us to repent. Yeshua will come back to judge the dead and the living. Christ is The Bread of Life and the Way, Truth and the Life.
@@alishalileh - Yeah, sure, if you say so. Whatever.
@@alishalileh I can't repent if I never pent in the first place
@@alishalilehI thought Anubis judges our hearts on a scale against a feather when we die to see how righteous we were. Are you suggesting that I have been believing a made up story?
The whole 'Satan' schtick is just one of the more embarrassing and inconsistent aspects of the Christian holy book.
That moustache is saying "Frankly My Dear, I dont Give a Damn"
Devil is man's enemy, not God. Technically God doesn't have an enemy because he's omniscient and omnipotent.
That logic doesn't make sense friend cause if that was the case then you should except other religions God as well. Cause in the end it's the same God. 😅
@EspadaXtri "same God" doesn't make sense if you believe that there's only one God and that God isn't similar to anything/anyone and doesn't have any equals/children/parents. God is the only thing that it's essence and existence are the exact same thing.
But is he an omnibus?
@@patchso no i think the only omnibus entity in the multuverse is ur ma.
Nah, the absolute deity and the sovereign lord deity always fight each other in every mythology. The absolute always humbles the sovereign lord, and the sovereign lord always kils the absolutely... but then the absolute always skips off laughing after he's killed, telling the sovereign deity "know your place, lil kingling. And, play it well, or the next omnimpotent omniscient will get to kill me next time. Peace, I'm out."😂
Pagels is a respected scholar.
Thank you for bringing her into your stable.
I’m loving these theological episodes, please keep them up. I’m endlessly fascinated by the roots of the bible as a text but it’s so hard to find decent content on this that isn’t fronted by an evangelical Christian.
Alex and his mustache are the pizza guy in a 1970s porno rendition....
Doorbell rings :"Hey, Who ordered the sausage pizza?"
Lady: I did
Alex: Im skeptical of that
i picked up my bag, went looking for a place to hide when i saw carmen and the devil walking side by side. i said, "hey carmen, come on let's go downtown", she said "i gotta go but my friend can stick around"
Take a load for free...
It seems to me that Satan, portrayed as punishing those who have offended god, is working for god. This completely dismisses any notion that god is benevolent and good, a being worthy of respect.
Political dichotomy runs far deeper than just a couple verses in a book. The evolutionary adaptation of recognizing in group vs out group is pivotal for a social species surviving in a harsh environment.
Ignore the moustache comments Alex. I too grew one, fifty years ago, and looked like a hustler. Still got it! Great guests and style
Strange how the only time Elaine used strong and definitive language when answering whether the jews were responsible for the death of Jesus.
“An impossible story!” “That could NOT have happened!”
So she's jewish?
Possibly she is aware of the long history of persecution of Jews by Christina using this as an excuse.
Aargh! Damn autocorrect.
@@michaelnewsham1412 you mean the long history of jewish rabbis blaspheming Jesus Christ in their holy books?
Elaine Pagels?? Give me a break - I love her and I got all her books ❤️... And you bring her here for me 😮
The other thing more badass than satan is that moustache
Magnum O'Connor
Alex has finally completed his transformation into an 80's porn actor
It really isnt
God loves you
Great episode, always interesting to hear someone expound on “why” people have certain beliefs. Thank you!
If I may give my opinion, the Jews crucifying Jesus was not an antisemitic cope by early Christians; it was the dovetail of the Old Testament, and a necessary logical prerequisite for Christianity.
This is the Cycle of History in the Old Testament: The people fall into sin and suffer. In their suffering they call for God. God sends a prophet to carry the Word. The prophet blames the people, the people get angry because they don't want the burden of responsibility, and so they reject the prophet. Eventually they suffer enough and so repent, and so they prosper. Then the cycle repeats.
The Gospels are the archetype of this. The Jews fall into sin and are conquered by the Romans. In their suffering they call for God. God sends The Word (Christ). The Word blames the people, the people get angry because they don't want the burden of responsibility, and so they kill The Word, and with it God.
The Israelites are the sons of Abraham, and thus God's chosen people. Because they keep the law and maintain a higher degree of responsibility than other nations, they are blessed by him. But because by crucifying Christ the sons of Abraham by blood rejected God's Word, and because throughout the Gospels the gentiles are shown to be more willing to listen to The Word than the Jews and keep the spirit of the law, the crucifixion of Christ by the Jews and Christ's subsequent Resurrection modifies the covenant so that the "children of Abraham" are now those who have faith in God as Abraham did, rather than those simply of blood descent from Abraham. (The covenent of flesh dies and is reborn as the covenent of spirit, to lift phrasing from the Epistles) This justifies spreading the Word to the gentiles, as the children of Abraham are now dispersed across the nations waiting to be converted, rather than concentrated purely among the Jews and their Semitic cousins.
People actually believed (and still believe) in this stuff, and to think that believers of the first century (many of them willing to and having died for their beliefs) would defile their sacred stories for a shallow spin doctor campaign is stupid. Plus Paul writes things theologically congruent to this in his letters before the Jewish revolt even happened.
Your well written comment would carry more meaning for me if I knew what you meant by a "shallow spin doctor campaign".
People are willing to die over others’ falsehoods all the time. Look how many people wanna start a Civil War in America because they believe the lies about the elections
@@theobjectivereality1837 One of the assumptions in this video was that early Christians telling Romans "It's not you, it's their fault" was a pragmatic invention to curry favor with pagan audiences, and that they kept modifying the Crucifixion story more and more to make the Romans more innocent and the Jewish people more guilty with that goal in mind. That would be the spin doctor campaign. It's shallow because it ignores the deeper consequences and implications of Abrahamic theology that I outlined in my comment.
I wish I could be more specific and point to parts of the video to support this, but it's been a few days since I watched this video so I don't remember it terrifically.
@@theobjectivereality1837 I posted a reply, but it got deleted for some reason. Here's a shorter one.
If I remember the video right (it's been a few days), they make the claim that early Christians kept making Judeans more guilty and Romans more innocent in the Crucifixion with the pragmatic goal of winning favor and converts from the Romans. That is the spin doctor campaign. It's shallow because it ignores the deeper implications of Abrahamic theology that I wrote of above.
Very well explained! It's a proof alone for me that the bible is true.. because even though it is the most sold book on the planet.. noone knows what it says.. just as the Bible it-self explains. To every Christian who has the sprit, it is a compelling truth.
I’ve always found her so hard to digest so I’m looking forward to this
*"The greatest trick the chrstian ever pulled was convincing the world that the Devil exists"*
or the man in the sky watching over
@@EattheApple666feel sorry for you
People are prone to being deceived. The Devil is a metaphor for something that does exist. The father of lies.
Father of lies... the person or people who wrote the bible?
@@Bronco541 Are you straying into idiot territory now?
The greatest trick the devil ever played, was convincing people that his name was/is God.
Lol username
Lol wtf
Where did you got these idea ??????
Two spy plane fly above in North Korea when it was hit. The drunkard devil ordered a nuclear bombardment including the innocent people down there. In the future God reward them
in 2 Kings 1 :10 ( KJV )
- if you watch
" Dark Waters #shorts#
The Man on that
possession he has an
elastic skin
Fun fact: This is also called out in Revelations
@@1erickf50
fun fact #2: Jesus is a slave herder.
This is a beautiful episode 👏
I’m so glad you got Elaine on the pod again! Side note, I really hope to hear from more women in this space. Historically women have been disregarded and silenced in the study of philosophy for so long, so I’d love if you’d platform more women on your channel if you can find some more scholars or other creators that align with your type of content! 😊
Satan is the original devils advocate.
Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
@@IAMNOTIAMNOTIAMNOT Funny how the angels dancing around gods throne screaming holy are flaming winged serpents 🤔
I have so much trauma from childhood because of Christianity. Especially the hell doctrine. Keep exposing it for the dirty lie it is 👏💜✨
You are me both.
It's hard to believe the that those people were feeding me with guilt and self hatred for years, yet it happened.
I don't think my brain will ever completely recover.
Sorry that you have to go through all,
the people who preach hell to scare people aren't really what Jesus wants instead it's about a relationship with Jesus Christ...
Still sorry for what you've been through...
same.. i feel more free not believing in the god of the bible
@@jamaisvx Are you alright now? Like just out of concern
My childhood trauma didn't come directly from religion it came from a pedophile father and a mother who allowed it because she hated me a child named:
You Little mother fker... for ruining her life , yes I was 6 years old on my first day of kindergarten B4 I found out that was not my name at all.
It feels like a false dichotomy when talking about whether it was the jews or the Romans who crucified Jesus. It seems the jews wanted it, and the Romans were happy to oblige.
Don't say that it completely ruin the narrative ✝️=HATE therefore must be banned
And not all the Jews too specifically the high priests thats are Pharasees and saducees. The Gospel is about the Jewish Messiah! Her argument that the masses couldn’t have condemned Jesus because elsewhere it says that the multitude followed him and loved him is ignoring that societies arent always in agreement. There couldve been a part of the population that loved Jesus and the others that sided with the high priests.
Also in the Old testatement, the Jewish authorities have put to death their own prophets (Elijah, Zechariah, Isaiah). Thats what I get from the persecution of Jesus by the high court. Another prophet that came for the salvation of his people, killed by his people. Not antisemetism
@@Wakkks True. You should consider more than just the act in a crime. Yeah, it's like, they couldn't have figured out how to put a guy on a cross. An act they had seen done to them for decades (not that they did that even). But, she's taking normative behavior for granted.
Yeah I dunno what she's on about here. The apostles were trying to save the jews by saying the Romans didn't actually do it, but it was the jews so they could save themselves but were all killed anyway so.... ???
Yay Elaine is back
Very informative, keep up the good work
No one:
Alex O'Connor starting a conversation: "Who is Satan?"
Love Alex's class and intelligence. Despite the mustache? 🥴
I still remember your video "why I'm still scared of hell" or something like this quite a while ago - after all this years being an atheist I don't have flashbacks or something like this anymore but I just realising, to go into this subject so deep, is still somehow scary 😬 but very good video and important too 👍
No matter the belief, all life’s biggest questions are terrifying. However, the statistical unlikelihood that we would’ve existed at all makes me feel a little lucky. And as a wise man once said “I spent billions of years not existing and wasn’t inconvenienced in the slightest”, I’m sure eternity after will be about the same.
@@josiahz21 I agree with you. All existential questions are a bit scary. But hell and devil are special 😬 I don’t believe any of that but videos like this still can make nightmares in contrast to “normal” unknown questions only make a sleepless night. Bit I also like the quotation, I will think more on it 🙂
@@nannakurzhaar my feeble attempt to make you feel better. It hasn’t helped me too much either. George Carlin said it first and does a much better job, if you’ve not heard him. While I may miss the sense of community church gave me I do not miss the fire and brimstone talk.
@@josiahz21 thanks for trying 🤗 And kudos to Alex O’Connor for doing so well - we are from a similar background (and I guess it shows that my deconstruction is not complete yet)
@@nannakurzhaar Rome wasn’t built in a day. I imagine I’ll be dealing with the trauma for the rest of my life. It is a better life, a truer one, and even if I wanted to am not capable of going back. Carry on friendo. Break those chains.
37:49 To play devil’s advocate, I’m struggling to parse the narrative that early Christians altered the story around who killed Jesus to save their skin when supposedly they were all willing to die for his story anyhow, and many of them did in fact do so.
I see tour point. I do think there is definitely something fishy going on with how Roman's are depicted in the new testament though. Especially seeing as how Christianity was ultimately co opted and broadened by the Roman's themselves
*some* were willing. I'd imagine the ones who were did so. What remains is cowards to shape a tale that makes them appear less so.
So philosophically theologocially we are saved through God's grace, God saves Us. God choose to come to earth you know the story....Jesus came her and died for our sins to forgive us of our sins and make it possible for us to get enternal life and join God in heaven or the kingdom of Heaven on Earth etc. It was God's choice to die. It was Jesus's choice, it was the entire plan and reason he came here. That was his mission and what he wanted to do. So ultimately, it was God who choose to kill God. The God head choose and was ultimately responsible for Jesus being killed.
He was killed because he claimed to be the messiah true king of the Jews which would free Isreal from Roman rule....by Roman law he had to be killed. So if people were looking for the humans ultimately respnonsible or had ultimately say in the situation ignoring the God thing I said before....it was the Romans. Christians were a Jewish sect, kinda hard especially after the Jewish revolt to spread a religion in which the Roman's killed and are responsible for killing God, who was the true Jewish King, and that Israel and the Jews not Rome and the Romans will and should be the most powerful nation/people on Earth and lead the world etc.
Man I forgot about this channel and need a lot of long videos to listen to right now this is great 😃
elaine pagels is 81 years old-what an inspiration. i can only hope to have half her insights and eloquence if i’m lucky enough to reach that age.
I read this book years ago. It's a great all-time riveting read. I too used to think that Satan was a red devil with horns and a pitchfork, then one day, as a kid in elementary school, I was watching Firing Line on PBS. There was this man, William F. Buckley Jr. He was calm, soft spoken and reasonable, but he had an air of superiority about him. Then when he said, "gays should be isolated, imprisoned, and forced to wear a pink triangle," I was shocked. It was then that I learned that Satan wasn't a red devil with a pitchfork but a white man in a suit. It's a lesson I'll never forget.
Buckley must have been a closet Nazi.
Not just a white man but men in general. white men blame Satan and black men blame the the white man both blame the women neither blame THEIR selves for all the hate greed war and death they spread amongst their fellow man.
The Jews were too responsible for jesus's death. They were given the choice of releasing Barabbas or Jesus and and they definitely didn't choose releasing Jesus. Pilot said I wash my hands of this , he left it to the Jews to decide .
I can listen to grandma talk all day😭
I couldn't stop thinking about Harold and Maude while watching this.
A very interesting conversation, nonetheless. Thank you.
Doubling down on the mustache I see.
This guy has had a mustache for years, what are you on about?
@@Levi-bs4oeStart jumping up and down
@@dupisdisasterpiece1058 no, thank.
Brazilian professor Oswaldo Luiz Ribeiro has great discussions around these topics, which are really incredible, in Portuguese though
Alex, that mustache is quickly reaching Ron Swanson levels...
I was wondering who the moustache reminded me of…
it was Swanson.
@@TheNamesFathom it's an important section of the Swanson Pyramid of Greatness.
Excellent interview. Important. Thanks
That was really good, thanks. ...and my list of books to buy grows even larger...
“The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.”
― Dante Alighieri
Because it's so obvious that we must pick a side when the time comes
I don’t know who the devil is but I see a handsome devil before me with a beautiful mustache
The greatest trick the church ever pulled was convincing the world the devil did, in-fact, exist
And this is exactly what Satan wants you to think … until it’s too late
@Tomf-tz4pd
Look up the article referenced below by Michael Sherlock.
---------------------------------------------------------
*The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.***
*Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.***
***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service.
*"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"*
*"Sumerian Is the World's Oldest Written Language | ProLingo"*
*"Sumerian Civilization: Inventing the Future - World History Encyclopedia"*
("The Sumerians were the people of southern Mesopotamia whose civilization flourished between c. 4100-1750 BCE."
"Ancient Israelites and their origins date back to 1800-1200 BCE.")
*"The Myth of Adapa - World History Encyclopedia"*
Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:50 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes.
From a Biblical scholar:
"Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."*
*"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"*
------------------------------------------------------------------
In addition, look up the below articles.
*"Genesis 1:1-2 --- not a creation ex nihilo"* - Dr Steven DiMattei
*"Yahweh was just an ancient Canaanite god. We have been deceived! - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*
*"Hammurabi - World History Encyclopedia"*
(Hammurabi (r. 1792-1750 BCE) was the sixth king of the Amorite First Dynasty of Babylon best known for his famous law code which served as the model for others, *including the Mosaic Law of the Bible.)*
*"Debunking the Devil - Michael A. Sherlock (Author)"*
*"The Greatest Trick Religion Ever Pulled: Convincing Us That Satan Exists | Atheomedy"*
*"Zoroastrianism And Persian Mythology: The Foundation Of Belief"*
(Scroll to the last section: Zoroastrianism is the Foundation of Western Belief)
*"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"*
*"January | 2014 | Atheomedy"* - Where the Hell Did the Idea of Hell Come From?
*"Retired bishop explains the reason why the Church invented "Hell" - Ideapod"*
Watch *"The Origins of Salvation, Judgement and Hell"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica
(Sensitive theists should only watch from 7:00 to 17:30 minutes as evangelical Christians are lambasted. He's a former theist and has been studying the scholarship and comparative religions for over 15 years)
*"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"*
*"Forget about Noah's Ark; There Was No Worldwide Flood | Bible Interp"*
*"The Search for Noah’s Flood - Biblical Archaeology Society"*
*"Eridu Genesis - World History Encyclopedia"*
*"The Atrahasis Epic: The Great Flood & the Meaning of Suffering - World History Encyclopedia"*
Watch *"How Aron Ra Debunks Noah's Flood"*
(8 part series debunking Noah's flood using multiple branches of science)
*"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"*
*"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"*
*"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"*
*"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"*
*"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"*
*"Studying the Bible"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei
(This particular article from a critical Biblical scholar highlights how the authors of the Hebrew Bible used their *fictional* god as a mouthpiece for their own views and ideologies)
*"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history?"* -- by Dr Steven DiMattei
*"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei
@@Tomf-tz4pdIn traditional Jewish and Christian’s belief it can be read as tho they are both in league with eachother not so much as enemies
Sooo…😅
@@Dovahkiin0117 I do not think they are enemy in that regard either. If Satan was really God's enemy then God would have destroyed him. But the fact that God allowed Satan to be and gave him the kingdom of hell and allowed him to reign over the world to be the force of dark tells me that Satan is much needed force that God allowed to be because he is useful
Yes and created by that God they love to torment men.
What an amazing podcast. Alex and Ellen together are so cool to listen to.
For my personal take, I don't like to see Satan as this external being. I think of Satan as the temptation inherited in our Human Nature to do bad things (or at least to do what we perdonally know is not right).
To me, saying, for example that suffering is cause by this fallen angel, takes a whole lot of responsibility from humanity and from us. Also by the fact that sometimes bad things happen, with no ill intention from humans. Mmm maybe I don't know how to express the whole idea perfectly. But also, I'm not a very eloquent person 😅
But well, that's why Jesus is tempted, being partly human, he is really experiencing this part of the human nature that is probably new to him (if we consider Jesus existed before being born). But yeah, I'm rumbling about a little. Thanks if you read everything ❤
Hey Alex, great episode as always. Just one note: 51:19 The idea of "300 years of persecution" is no longer the consensus among scholars, specially after Dr. Candida Moss wrote her critically acclaimed book “The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom”. Maybe you should have her on your show!
*Larry Burkett's book on "Giving and Tithing" drew me closer to God and helped my spirituality. 2020 was a year I literally lived it. I cashed in my life savings and gave it all away. My total giving amounted to 40,000 dollars. Everyone thought I was delusional. Today, 1 receive 85,000 dollars every two months. I have a property in Calabasas, CA, and travel a lot. God has promoted me more than once and opened doors for me to live beyond my dreams. God kept to his promises to and for me*
There's wonder working power in following Kingdom principles on giving and tithing. Hallelujah!
But then, how do you get all that in that period of time? What is it you do please, mind sharing?
It is the digital market. That's been the secret to this wealth transfer. A lot of folks in the US and abroad are getting so much from it, God has been good to my household Thank you Jesus
And thanks to my co-worker (Michael) who suggested Ms Susan Jane Christy
How can I start this digital market, any guidelines and how can I reach out to her?
Wasn’t the “devil” named “The adversary” in the 5:19 book(s) of job? Exactly opposite to what she says 05:04 in to the interview?
The translation is a bit more nuanced, because it also means accuser or someone who obstructs. However, considering that the satan in Job does exactly as yahweh tells him to do and yahweh listens to him and lets him torture the man, it is not very sound to believe that the title refers to yahweh's adversary but more to an accuser of mankind, someone who acts in opposition to humans as a way of testing their "worth" but at the end serves yahweh, because he ends up reaffirming his power.
@@eprd313 that is a gross way of looking at the situation. Evil does Evil by permission of God, Satan knows he has his limits "There hath no temptation taken hold of you but such as is common to man. But God is faithful; He will not suffer you to be tempted beyond that which ye are able to bear, but with the temptation will also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." Satan does not serve God.... and the time will come when God will give this world up to his master... Satan accuses Job's obedience as being fake... not out of love.. Satan is an accuser and someone that obstructs... as revenge against God his mission is to ensure that every son and daughter of Adam and Eve will be destroyed in fire like him. Evil being regulated does not mean Satan is an agent of God
I read the title and knew the comments would be hilarious 😂
I don't click on videos to read hilarious comments myself, but I just clicked on a different video that might be right up your alley:
*_Was Jesus Actually The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? - Alex O’Connor_*
It's on Chris Williamson's channel. I haven't watched it yet, but there should be some interesting comments underneath it.
*Reply to:* _"I read the title and knew the comments would be hilarious "_
Kudos to you for keeping a straight face during some of these conversations with people who believe these shenanigans.
Curl your mustache up like bicycle handle bars. It’s the next spiritual trend
About the sponsor vidéo: i always have a problem when people talk about "media bias" negatively. Media biases are not a problem as long as good journalistic practices are enforced in a newsroom through a strict and precise deontological code. Furthermore there can be no such thing as unbiased news, as any retelling of an event will come from a given perspective and point of view, whether it is acknowledged by the redactor or not.
Being left or right wing is never a problem if you report facts acurately and you are honest about what your assumptions are and where they come from in your editorializing.
Interest and emphasis on a topic or news can be viewed as biased if there's a pattern to it.
Omission of something can be interpreted as a form of censorship or simply trivial/uninteresting.
Of course not everything is necessarily biased, coincidences do happen, that's why large sampling is valuable.
It's about context; which, absent, leaves bias a moot point.
Propaganda is facilitated by lack of context.
Also, TLDR...
Fair point, except media biases aren't kept in check by good journalism anymore. I can't think of a single outlet that wouldn't blatantly lie to protect their sponsors or benefactors.
Even the papers that are supposedly supported by subscriptions are rife with poor journalism. Apparently at some point it became acceptable to just copy amd paste tweets onto an article and call it a day.
If journalists want their industry to be respected by the broader public they have a LOT of damage control to do.
My newsfeed is currently about 85% GPT generated text and the other 15% are typos, quotes and ads.
We need journalism, it's important for society to function properly but for the last ten years most of us are fending for ourselves and you've lost out trust.
I hope that this is reversible and something we learn from but right now you'd have to pay me to read some of the drivel that passes for news these days.
"You won't believe what Local Supermarket Shoppers found!" (It's discounted food items, but you wouldn't have guessed!)
@@SineN0mine3 I mostly read news in French and Spanish, but I know a lot of independent news media who do amazing work. If you want to learn about everything Russia in english from a redaction in exile I can strongly recommend Meduza. Also in english, Haaretz gives good coverage of the Israelo-palestinian conflict from a center-left perspective (not independent though).
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Did I hear her say that satan wasn’t God’s enemy until the New Testament? Have you read Genesis 3 especially 3:15?
Or
Zechariah 3:1-10
Where in Genesis does it say “Satan” ? Believe it or not (you won’t believe anything your authority doesn’t tell you) but your religion is fake and an evolution of previous religions.
From Matthew 27:
"24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a [c]tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, “I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it.”
25 And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.”
26 Then he released Barabbas to them; and when he had [e]scourged Jesus, he delivered Him to be crucified."
The heart were the Jews. The hand were the roman soldiers, the head was Pilate. The heart convinced the head to order his hands. Furthermore, Pilate was far from pictured as a weak man. A weak man wouldn't have struggled with this situation. Ultimately, he helped is our salvation by doing the will of the Father.
EDIT: Everytime I watch a video after Alex had a talk with Jonathan Pageau, it's as if he hadn't retained any information at all. Adam and Eve do die. God do not lie.
This was also prefigured in Daniel's lions' den story:
Daniel:
6 It pleased Darius to appoint 120 satraps to rule throughout the kingdom, 2 with three administrators over them, one of whom was Daniel. The satraps were made accountable to them so that the king might not suffer loss. 3 Now Daniel so distinguished himself among the administrators and the satraps by his exceptional qualities that the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 At this, the administrators and the satraps tried to find grounds for charges against Daniel in his conduct of government affairs, but they were unable to do so. They could find no corruption in him, because he was trustworthy and neither corrupt nor negligent. 5 Finally these men said, “We will never find any basis for charges against this man Daniel unless it has something to do with the law of his God.”
6 So these administrators and satraps went as a group to the king and said: “May King Darius live forever! 7 The royal administrators, prefects, satraps, advisers and governors have all agreed that the king should issue an edict and enforce the decree that anyone who prays to any god or human being during the next thirty days, except to you, Your Majesty, shall be thrown into the lions’ den. 8 Now, Your Majesty, issue the decree and put it in writing so that it cannot be altered-in accordance with the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be repealed.” 9 So King Darius put the decree in writing.
10 Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before. 11 Then these men went as a group and found Daniel praying and asking God for help. 12 So they went to the king and spoke to him about his royal decree: “Did you not publish a decree that during the next thirty days anyone who prays to any god or human being except to you, Your Majesty, would be thrown into the lions’ den?”
The king answered, “The decree stands-in accordance with the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be repealed.”
13 Then they said to the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, Your Majesty, or to the decree you put in writing. He still prays three times a day.” 14 When the king heard this, he was greatly distressed; he was determined to rescue Daniel and made every effort until sundown to save him.
15 Then the men went as a group to King Darius and said to him, “Remember, Your Majesty, that according to the law of the Medes and Persians no decree or edict that the king issues can be changed.”
16 So the king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lions’ den. The king said to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you!”
Axel O’Connor might be a sweet name change idea. Food for thought.
The stash is legendary.
So Absurd to say that GOD can have an enemy. Religion has made our minds small. Religious people are truelly confused.
But that's cause life's confusing. Only an omnipotent good god would be even more confusing.
But it's a an enemy he can beat any time he wants without trouble. He just chooses to let him operate for some reason
@@kc_h7hlet's say you're God and created intelligent life form to go live for eternity in some utopia, wouldn't you have some kind of trial to select only those deserving(fit) to go there?
@@AverageUA-camEnthusiastyour funny
You have to see religions as moral system and technology then you'd understand these were very important for humanity and the development of societies, story telling/symbolism, archetypes are very powerful tools to help promote certain moral values and behaviours in order for society to not collapse like atheists societies currently are because of fragile ego, nihilism, kumbaya weakness and hedonistic degeneracy