It really depends. If the AI is my enemy, they'd use that infinite money to spam infinite stacks of mercs. If they're my ally, they'd find a way to get into 5876 ducats of debt anyway.
And if they're next to you while you're in a death war against someone else, they'll dig deep into their pockets to give them 300 ducats as an OPM all the time while you might get one if you're 3:1 against the Ottomans and Venice hasn't been beaten into the curb. And even then they'll try to give you some crappy loan with worse interest than the normal ones.
I once saw Muscovy doing good territory wise (Neva, Smolensk, Kazan and Astrakhan conquered by 1500), but when I switched to them, it was terrible. Corruption, low admin tech, giant debt, rebellions. So I've decided to fix that. Removed corruption, gave them admin tech 9, spent mil points on rebels (and cheated more mil points), as well as gave them 20000 ducats for all. 10 years later, they somehow went into debt again, but at least they now have docks at the coast of the White Sea. Imagine building buildings that boost your economy. This post was made by the AI gang.
Sounds like the whole "AI doesn't realise it has money unless it's income" problem shown in the video. You gave them an injection of money with cheats, but because it was a flat sum in treasury, AI would just keep running a deficit and wait to go broke again instead of using the money to build buildings or employ advisors to fix its problems.
yeah like irl france didnt own the france region until around the time of the revolution so it should be much rarer for them to grab it all by like 1500 and be expanding into iberia and the low countries
I think the game just makes too little restrictions on the size of the country and too many punishments for having a lot of vassal states/great autonomy
I would disagree, because you can't have infinite mercs (there are only so many complanies you can hire). So, ideas buffing regular troops (the number of which you don't have a hard limit on) and ideas buffing manpower balance are better.
@deepspacewanderer9897 early game mercenary ideas would be the best idea in the game though. Better mercs and more merc manpower and you will have way more force limit of mercs than you will be able to maintain regular units. Later after expanding across the globe you have access to way more mercenary companies and retaining army professionalism while also making use of the additional manpower mercs provide ensures that the idea group will still be valuable.
For some reason, when you described what the AI does with the button, all that came up in my head was a toddler who just has to press the button no matter what.
It'd be interesting to see how a player could exploit this. Mercs would be great. As I understand it, mercs are limited. So each region only has a certain number of hire-able merc stacks. Normally that limit is plenty, but I could see it being an issue here. Still super exploitable. Also force limit is suddenly a mere suggestion. Losing men in a war would be more meaningful, as manpower becomes a much larger factor in how many men you can field.
Other less thorough EU4 youtuber would just make an effortless timelapse with just the first version of the idea (the decision) and wouldn't make the income version for months (if at all) due to the similar video existing. Meanwhile here is our adored Lemon Cake being such a chad to actually do a proper research and execute his idea the first try. Not only that, but also do it in somewhat generously abridged 15 minutes video, also elaborating on how he did everything instead of giving vague "well I just made a modifier" (although I would say he could have go the trouble to disable the economic hegemony, but it was a small factor by the end of the day so whatever)
Ah thanks! When it comes to disabling Econ Hegemon, I decided to keep it on purposes as it provided at least an arbitrary reason to get more income, although in fairness what I should have disabled was vassal tax income, as instead of a question of actual eco scaling, it was just a question of how many vassals you had to tax.
I think there was actually a major change in the first campaign you showed. Versailles was upgrading to level 3 by 1500, and they had the other great project at 2 as well. And they had like 15-20 manufactories by 1500. That’s great reinvestment by the French ai, in my book. (Running 5 total advisor levels though is criminal)
My guess is since the projects are mostly upfront payment, the ai look at the money they have, see they have a bunch, see they are not losing money, then try and find a way to spend all the money without increasing monthly costs above a certain % of income they have.
paid 11k for a trade port in india / VJ - 10 years later i own the whole of south india and the war with vj they had 0 mercs that i noticed, unless they were all afk in north india out of sight, they didnt spend a penny of my 11k on survivng, prolly just on buildings in the land i took months later
I love being the economic hegemon because I placed a textile manufactory and workshop in a whole two dye provinces while the AI decides to deathstack 500 artilery on a province with 40 supply cap
In my eyes, the AI basically already has infinite money. I've only ever seen one nation go bankrupt, once, and it was literally just Lubeck as a OPM. That was it, I've seen them in insane debt but never bankruptcy.
@@Wulfric_VIXIII Yeah, AI gets to cheat with fort zones. If they have any legal path to their target provice at all, then they are allowed to take the shortest path through all fort zones. They only get stopped if there's no legal path at all. If let's say AI Poland-Lithuania gets the MA to go to Moscow through Ottomans, India and China by a Siberian detour, then they're immediately allowed to walk over your fortlines directly. More importantly: they can even cross areas that they wouldn't have a legal path to, if they start walking to a legal target on the other side. With the Muscovy example: say you have a solid fortline around your core territory from Urals to the Caucasus to the Baltic Sea. But they get MA to go around and siege the forts in the Urals. They can start marching from Poland directly over the "secure" zone to reach the forts that would stop them on the other side. And I'm pretty sure they're allowed to recalculate and change direction if your armies get near them to intercept, making them stuck in your "core" territory until they shattered retreat.
12:40 In my current campaign (Austria WC) Morocco did the sme thing. They began colonizing the ivory coast and even south africa. And that is not even the most cursed part of the campaign.
Imagine if hte AI knew it didnt need the colonist in the colonies and could just colonise every province in colonial range at once... maybe that'd cost more the free money...
But what are the long term consequences in a game that you use a mod to increase the amount of idea groups you can take?, Does the ai exploit it? Or does the ai make more of the most mind boggling choices? (Also. What ideas would you take if you could get an idea group for every tech level for 10 tech levels?, I'd probably go innovative into court or something (extra splendor is never a bad thing, and idea cost reduction would be necessary to get all idea groups filed before the end of the game) then go humanist or religious (humanist for idea cost, religious for tolerance of the true Faith) and start stacking things to create an undeniably op nation that even makes use of the idea groups exclusive to certain government types)
I would guess they would take the ideas, but fail to abuse unless they do so by accident. The AI also as you identified doesn't like to take humanist if they have religious already, and stuff like that, so its good to make sure they have enough idea groups to actually grab
ai tend to preffer admin ideas or if not it will go heavily into military (did this with non limited choice for ideas) there were no colonise idea but a decent amount of expansion ideas.
the ai still picks like the ai does (surprisingly, even overhaul mods idea groups suffer from this), the consequences are just less development and slightly lower tech as the ai spends mana on pointless groups
For the AI I wish they'd get claims more easily. A lot of nations just don't do all that much in AI hand because they don't get the claims they need to progress.
Yeah, that's what happened in the video. Tax income is still monthly like every other income, the game just calculates tax income and all its related modifiers as annual values under the hood for some reason, but still pays out 1/12th of your current annual tax income every month.
Making this a decision-based experiment is probably terrible, both for performance and tampering with the will-do. Much better to just console command 999999999 ducats or whatever the cap is.
Issue is, that doesn't prevent spamming much anyway; 100 AI's popping a decision every day isn't great either, and having it disappear past 10k achieves the goal
Hey! How about use some filter like XBR to icons so it wont be soo pixelated. You can use some online site, but using some on PC software will be better.
Issue is, the base resolution for those icons are literally 40x40 pixels, and sometimes as low as 20x20. It’s not a great base to work from, and I mean I even did AI upscaling for a bit but yeah.
Come discuss infinite money scaling in my discord: discord.gg/HaRWvm37Gu
how is assigava with its vasale swarm then shudent they be rolling and can spam inf troops when they have like 30 or more vasales?
It really depends. If the AI is my enemy, they'd use that infinite money to spam infinite stacks of mercs. If they're my ally, they'd find a way to get into 5876 ducats of debt anyway.
True!
And if they're next to you while you're in a death war against someone else, they'll dig deep into their pockets to give them 300 ducats as an OPM all the time while you might get one if you're 3:1 against the Ottomans and Venice hasn't been beaten into the curb. And even then they'll try to give you some crappy loan with worse interest than the normal ones.
Ally will not enter war Negative: -100 4815 in debt
Vladimir Putin moment
i have seen venice hire 200k mercs out of 50k forcelimit before, it’s insane
Why do I immediately assume that they'd build naval batteries in every province and debase currency still?
... yeah same
I did this and they build docks everywhere.
I once saw Muscovy doing good territory wise (Neva, Smolensk, Kazan and Astrakhan conquered by 1500), but when I switched to them, it was terrible. Corruption, low admin tech, giant debt, rebellions. So I've decided to fix that. Removed corruption, gave them admin tech 9, spent mil points on rebels (and cheated more mil points), as well as gave them 20000 ducats for all. 10 years later, they somehow went into debt again, but at least they now have docks at the coast of the White Sea. Imagine building buildings that boost your economy. This post was made by the AI gang.
Real life russia Stat
Sounds like the whole "AI doesn't realise it has money unless it's income" problem shown in the video. You gave them an injection of money with cheats, but because it was a flat sum in treasury, AI would just keep running a deficit and wait to go broke again instead of using the money to build buildings or employ advisors to fix its problems.
The lack of consolidation is something I wish we *actually* saw more of. Seems like by 1600, there are like less than 30 tags in europe.
That's fair, although in some sense the AI has to be more aggressive since the player certainly is.
yeah like irl france didnt own the france region until around the time of the revolution so it should be much rarer for them to grab it all by like 1500 and be expanding into iberia and the low countries
That’s why there should be mechanics in place to make map painting less viable for both the player and the ai in eu5
I think the game just makes too little restrictions on the size of the country and too many punishments for having a lot of vassal states/great autonomy
@@cnutsiggardason2014 Wish they'd play more tall, or aggressive money/prestige wars
One situation where mercenary ideas are actually strong. If everyone can have infinite mercs, the ones with better mercs win.
Fair point!
I would disagree, because you can't have infinite mercs (there are only so many complanies you can hire). So, ideas buffing regular troops (the number of which you don't have a hard limit on) and ideas buffing manpower balance are better.
@deepspacewanderer9897 early game mercenary ideas would be the best idea in the game though. Better mercs and more merc manpower and you will have way more force limit of mercs than you will be able to maintain regular units.
Later after expanding across the globe you have access to way more mercenary companies and retaining army professionalism while also making use of the additional manpower mercs provide ensures that the idea group will still be valuable.
For some reason, when you described what the AI does with the button, all that came up in my head was a toddler who just has to press the button no matter what.
It'd be interesting to see how a player could exploit this.
Mercs would be great. As I understand it, mercs are limited. So each region only has a certain number of hire-able merc stacks. Normally that limit is plenty, but I could see it being an issue here. Still super exploitable.
Also force limit is suddenly a mere suggestion. Losing men in a war would be more meaningful, as manpower becomes a much larger factor in how many men you can field.
I mean I struggle with mercs per region already, but then again that's MP death wars for you
Other less thorough EU4 youtuber would just make an effortless timelapse with just the first version of the idea (the decision) and wouldn't make the income version for months (if at all) due to the similar video existing. Meanwhile here is our adored Lemon Cake being such a chad to actually do a proper research and execute his idea the first try. Not only that, but also do it in somewhat generously abridged 15 minutes video, also elaborating on how he did everything instead of giving vague "well I just made a modifier" (although I would say he could have go the trouble to disable the economic hegemony, but it was a small factor by the end of the day so whatever)
Ah thanks! When it comes to disabling Econ Hegemon, I decided to keep it on purposes as it provided at least an arbitrary reason to get more income, although in fairness what I should have disabled was vassal tax income, as instead of a question of actual eco scaling, it was just a question of how many vassals you had to tax.
Great video! Would love to see you mess more with the AI, it's a fun concept and it's interesting to see how it thinks.
I think there was actually a major change in the first campaign you showed. Versailles was upgrading to level 3 by 1500, and they had the other great project at 2 as well. And they had like 15-20 manufactories by 1500. That’s great reinvestment by the French ai, in my book. (Running 5 total advisor levels though is criminal)
My guess is since the projects are mostly upfront payment, the ai look at the money they have, see they have a bunch, see they are not losing money, then try and find a way to spend all the money without increasing monthly costs above a certain % of income they have.
In non-Ironman mode I’ve given the AI hundreds of thousands of mana, they dev every province they own to ~30 at about one dev click per month.
cool video, you are putting alot of effort into this channel
Thanks, working on it :)
paid 11k for a trade port in india / VJ - 10 years later i own the whole of south india and the war with vj they had 0 mercs that i noticed, unless they were all afk in north india out of sight, they didnt spend a penny of my 11k on survivng, prolly just on buildings in the land i took months later
I love buffing random nations in my saves with money and army tradition.
That's why i give my colonial nations 2 ducats subsidies. That is enough to at least run one colony so they actually expand.
I love being the economic hegemon because I placed a textile manufactory and workshop in a whole two dye provinces while the AI decides to deathstack 500 artilery on a province with 40 supply cap
The decision is maybe less AIish than my first default of adding to base tax income like you did second lol
AI is smart
I really had no idea this was EU4 before seeing the up next
But what would it look like in 1700…?
Please no
@@LemonCake101 Please yes
Trust me. My Ally will still go into debt not being able to join a war.
Bro found the infinite money glitch frfr
How do I mod reality
@@LemonCake101 tax fraud
@@LemonCake101Tax evasion
In my eyes, the AI basically already has infinite money. I've only ever seen one nation go bankrupt, once, and it was literally just Lubeck as a OPM. That was it, I've seen them in insane debt but never bankruptcy.
AI is very ‘insane debt averse’ that they will choose to get full annexed then take extra debt
I've always been under the assumption that the AI cheats hard in paradox games. Like I've seen them flat out ignore fort zones of control in EUIV.
@@Wulfric_VIXIII Yeah, AI gets to cheat with fort zones. If they have any legal path to their target provice at all, then they are allowed to take the shortest path through all fort zones. They only get stopped if there's no legal path at all. If let's say AI Poland-Lithuania gets the MA to go to Moscow through Ottomans, India and China by a Siberian detour, then they're immediately allowed to walk over your fortlines directly.
More importantly: they can even cross areas that they wouldn't have a legal path to, if they start walking to a legal target on the other side. With the Muscovy example: say you have a solid fortline around your core territory from Urals to the Caucasus to the Baltic Sea. But they get MA to go around and siege the forts in the Urals. They can start marching from Poland directly over the "secure" zone to reach the forts that would stop them on the other side. And I'm pretty sure they're allowed to recalculate and change direction if your armies get near them to intercept, making them stuck in your "core" territory until they shattered retreat.
12:40 In my current campaign (Austria WC) Morocco did the sme thing. They began colonizing the ivory coast and even south africa. And that is not even the most cursed part of the campaign.
I just realised I ain’t subscribed yet I watch nearly all ur videos 😂
Love these videos even if I have to slow it to 90% speed
If you ran this test with my colonial nations they would spend them all on churches and cogs
Can i have infinite money too?
Sure, just show me to how to mod it in for the outside game
@@LemonCake101 tax fraud
Awesome video
However... What if all nations had less money? How would that go?
Bankruptcy, they already struggle hard enough as it is
Imagine if hte AI knew it didnt need the colonist in the colonies and could just colonise every province in colonial range at once... maybe that'd cost more the free money...
Good point: I didn't consider that at all, but that would absolutely be the thing to do
I would also be serious to see how the AI deals with infinite monarch points. In my experience they just sit on it instead of devving or anything
I was thinking that, but I will need to delete the native Americans and stuff because they migrate daily
@@LemonCake101 Finally, new world is fixed
But what are the long term consequences in a game that you use a mod to increase the amount of idea groups you can take?, Does the ai exploit it? Or does the ai make more of the most mind boggling choices? (Also. What ideas would you take if you could get an idea group for every tech level for 10 tech levels?, I'd probably go innovative into court or something (extra splendor is never a bad thing, and idea cost reduction would be necessary to get all idea groups filed before the end of the game) then go humanist or religious (humanist for idea cost, religious for tolerance of the true Faith) and start stacking things to create an undeniably op nation that even makes use of the idea groups exclusive to certain government types)
I would guess they would take the ideas, but fail to abuse unless they do so by accident. The AI also as you identified doesn't like to take humanist if they have religious already, and stuff like that, so its good to make sure they have enough idea groups to actually grab
ai tend to preffer admin ideas or if not it will go heavily into military (did this with non limited choice for ideas) there were no colonise idea but a decent amount of expansion ideas.
the ai still picks like the ai does (surprisingly, even overhaul mods idea groups suffer from this), the consequences are just less development and slightly lower tech as the ai spends mana on pointless groups
i would actually still like to have the infinite money mod myself for playing around with it
1:30 Do you mean integer overflow? Or does the AI logic actually stack overflow?
Integer Overflow in fairness, I do get the two confused
For the AI I wish they'd get claims more easily. A lot of nations just don't do all that much in AI hand because they don't get the claims they need to progress.
I see this in hoi4 all the time but I never see this in eu4
honestly those Americas seem pretty normal, I find until the 1700s basic ai colonisers cant do anything and the Confederations blob
I think depends in the ruler statistics
You should give every country it's own custom religion as see what AI does
I would guess its best
Can you add this modifier to your Rome mod, ya boy needs help.
Maybe if I give it only to the AI
I don’t need to know what the AI does with the infinite money, they will find a way to bankrupt their entire country.
u need to do a campain with AIs have this mod u not
That could be quite fun actually!
I imagine there'd be a *lot* of peace treaties asking for war reparations...
@@hoi-polloi1863 oh true, I would need to disallow that
@@LemonCake101 and also disallow all subjects or disable the modifier for them.
Now if they also had infinite manpower would that make a bigger difference.
I was thinking of doing that
Could add triggered modifier to give countries monthly income instead.
Would be interesting to see how that differs from this
I did indeed do that.. in the video?
Yeah, that's what happened in the video. Tax income is still monthly like every other income, the game just calculates tax income and all its related modifiers as annual values under the hood for some reason, but still pays out 1/12th of your current annual tax income every month.
@@LemonCake101 Did not sound like it. Sounded like you gave a decision for them to click that gave them income when they clicked it.
@@whitehawk4099 did you.. watch the video? I did that first and the other 2/3rds of the video is the income modifier…
This, kids, is why you finish watching before leaving comments
Would like to see someone consolidate Africa as Morocco. How ho you claim pieces of land not owned by anyone?
Okay but what if you give only 1 country infinite money
Making this a decision-based experiment is probably terrible, both for performance and tampering with the will-do. Much better to just console command 999999999 ducats or whatever the cap is.
Thankfully having the decision go away helps with that, and either way income is the way to go as discussed in the second part of the video
maybe AI just doesn't like to develop out of Primary culture.
Maybe add a 1 day cool down?
Issue is, that doesn't prevent spamming much anyway; 100 AI's popping a decision every day isn't great either, and having it disappear past 10k achieves the goal
*INFINITE INFLATION*
Oceania?
now do one country has an infinite income
Now what about giving just one country infinite money?
Depends on the country: probably not enough to make the country an instant win
Ok but what about infinite monarch points?
Natives migrate daily and refused to hand over my CPU
@@LemonCake101 kid named remove natives mod:
Stack as *little* morale as possible
Hey! How about use some filter like XBR to icons so it wont be soo pixelated. You can use some online site, but using some on PC software will be better.
Issue is, the base resolution for those icons are literally 40x40 pixels, and sometimes as low as 20x20. It’s not a great base to work from, and I mean I even did AI upscaling for a bit but yeah.
When everyone has infinite money nobody does
"enough self shitting"
'shilling' smh my head
you cant really do much with money. specially when you have alot of it
not subsidies, you should just make the base tax that's normally 10 ducats, into 10 000 ducats
I mean what I did achieves the exact same thing
@LemonCake101 I guess but you essentially gave a massive advantage to larger nations
@@dazeen9591 .. no? Every country gets +10k base tax income
@@LemonCake101 why did France have 27.5K then ?
@LemonCake101 that's not true 😂 you didn't watch your own video ?
dont care, 1.25x speed
virgin 'you speak too quick' vs chad 'I have places to be'
I don’t need to know what the AI does with the infinite money, they will find a way to bankrupt their entire country.