Correction, I say that RT30 plot is the time it takes for the reverb to decay by 30dB. It's actually that time multiplied by 2. It's a straight-line curve fit extrapolation for a 60dB decay. Measuring 60dB of decay accurately is difficult, so the time to decay 30dB is measured, then doubling that measured time is approximately how long it takes to decay 60dB. Hope that clears up any confusion.
@Kevin COVINGTON haha, it's a workshop, what can I say, if I kept the floor clean I wouldn't get anything done. I think it took 3 tries. Thanks for watchin!
Hey man. You keep calling these “budget panels” but the truth is, these are simply panels. Exactly the way they are constructed when purchased from any retailer. In fact, better constructed. So yeah, amazing job.
Ah yes, my perspective was that they're a budget option compared to getting an off-the-shelf commercial panel. And the construction method was the cheapest way I found in my research for something that wasn't going to be junk when finished. Thanks for watching and your positive comment!
Great video... I’ve fallen down the rabbit hole of acoustic panels, realized I need to tune my office, and your video (and approach to production) is easily the best I’ve seen. Elegant in your simplicity. Thanks for sharing...
Great idea. I am doing my sons room and I was going to buy those foam panels. So I came to you tube for reviews and came across your video. I not only like your idea but I noticed you have commonsense just by seeing how you built your panels. Sound crazy but as a skilled tradesman you notice these things in people. Great job and you have a new subscriber. 👍
Very well thought out and executed. Probably the best design I've seen on UA-cam. I would prefer solid wood 1" X 4" boards over particle board. The particle board seems too labor intensive if you don't have an outstanding woodshop like yourself. Plus I try to stay away from table saws as much as possible. The other thing is I would prefer a different color felt or material. These two things do not take away from the success of what you accomplished in this video. Thanks for sharing. Excellent...
Thanks for your kind words! You bet, 1x4 boards are a great option for sure, I just chose mdf because at the time it was the cheapest option and once the fabric is stretched over the box they're quite stable. And after all, they'll just be hanging on wall so mdf is plenty strong enough. Thanks for watchin!
This is the best diy acoustic panel video I’ve found. After researching how dangerous breathing in insulation is I had a hard time figuring out what I would use to back the panels so the insulation was not exposed and this video did the trick.
Nice to see a skilled craftsperson make these - very similar to how I was thinking of making them (still can't believe I haven't seen anyone else use french cleats). The cardboard locating template is a great idea and the fancy fold is legit. Nice work!
Sometimes furniture and rugs help as well. For crossing waves and the up and down between floor and ceiling. Besides that the lower fregeuncy bumps can be countered by bass traps made in the sane way, mostly. The panels you made are like general purpose ones, which are SUPER important for getting a generally pretty good sound!
Thank you, we live in an apartment with our daughter who has autism and she is really loud when she has a meltdown . In order to be respectful to our neighbors we have been looking for a way to sound proof her room. Thank you for this we will be doing this.
@Laura Brown You aren't sure what your talking about at all. Acoustic curtains is not a preferred method of address echoes. For flutters, at least 2 inch thick sound insulation panels would be best to absorb and decay those frequencies. Acoustic curtains should only be an after thought. Stop misleading people.
I recommend recessing the back of the insulation with a bread knife or insulation knife to accommodate the depth of the backer board. That will keep the insulation from pushing out into the front fabric as you can see at the end of the video (look at the bottom of the panel to the left of the desk - little bulge there)
You can better utilize your absorption with targeted placement. First, a concept: a comb filter is created when the sound from your speakers that travels directly to your ears is mixed/interfered with by the sound coming out of your speakers that reflects off of your primary reflection points on your side walls, then bouncing off the walls into your ears. That time delay, the difference between the direct path, and the primary reflection path interferes with accurate monitoring. Basically, it will be harder to judge the frequency content of the audio you are monitoring because some frequencies will be boosted, and others cut by the effect of the comb filter, and low frequencies will be the most impacted. You can identify your primary reflection points by sitting in your monitoring position, at your desk, having your audio homie move a hand mirror along your side walls, and when you can see your speakers in the mirror from you monitoring position, not by moving but just by rotating your head, the mirror is in your primary reflection point. It is far more efficient to place your sound absorbers in that location, as they will absorb the lower frequencies at the reflection point, rather than just reducing overall sound decay times. This will clean up the audio you monitor from your speakers. Further, what are the two largest sides of the cube of the room you're monitoring in? The floor and the ceiling. Now, which two sides of the cube are the closest together? Again, very likely your floor and ceiling. This is a one, two punch of bad acoustics. The shortest dimension between two parallel walls creates the largest problems with axial room modes, the greatest frequency bumps created by standing waves. You can have certain frequencies boosted by 16db, and remember sound doubles in volume every 6db, so think about how loud some frequencies will sound versus how loud they actually are. It is therefore most important to reduce those shortest axis room reflections. Also, the larger the surface area of the reflective parallel sides of your room create the most input into the standing waves of your room which cloud the audio you are monitoring. So, it is more important to absorb the sound above you rather than the sound off the side walls or the sound off the front and back walls, though, with your absorbers placed in your side primary reflection points, you will see a large increase in the clarity of your audio. So, like finding your primary reflection points on the side walls, you can do the same process with your audio homie and find the primary reflection points above you on the ceiling. Remember to sit in your monitoring position, and just swivel your head up. When you can see your speaker in the mirror, the mirror is at the primary reflection point. Place your greatest depth and amount of absorption there. Though, I don't recommend an air gap greater than the total thickness of your absorption material. So, if your material is 4 inches thick, only leave up to a 4 inch air gap between the ceiling and the backside of the absorber. And a sub note: it would be best to situate your desk and monitoring in the most advantageous position within your room. I doubt you're up for it, but you might want to move your desk back a foot or more from the front wall, the wall in front of you, behind your monitors. And, you should be sitting equidistant between your side walls, facing in the direction of the longest dimension between two parallel walls. This will greatly increase the quality of the acoustics absent any absorption or diffusion. And then, when you do deploy your absorption in the most acoustically relevant locations, aka, at your primary reflection points, you'll have an even greater benefit from that absorption. Your monitoring audio quality may not be that important to you, but I cannot recommend it enough. I dread monitoring in a room of your size. I hope I never have to go back to a room like that, but if I did, I would be certain to use everything at my disposal to fight the terrible acoustics of standard American room sizes/dimensions, which it seems are almost designed to produce jarring, bad sound quality for the inhabitants of those rooms. When I finally got setup in a larger room, and I was able to setup my workstation at the acoustic sweet spot of the room, even without absorption, it was a stunning revelation. It is like hugging your wife while you're both wearing your winter jackets, versus hugging completely naked, if you'll forgive the metaphor. It's absolutely incomparably intimate when you're in the sweet spot ;) All the best.
@@derikmalenda6675 I'm not an acoustician! Several decades ago I build a recording studio, so did quite a bit of acoustics research to design and build that space. And recently, I've been hoping to upgrade my current recording/mixing location, so have dug back into they wild, unintuitive world of acoustics. So, I couldn't accept a consult fee. But I'd be happy to help you. I can apply what I know to your particular situation, as every situation is different, and no situation is ideal, everything with acoustic spaces is a compromise to some extent or another, usually to a greater extent, lol! Unless, of course, you're starting with bare ground, and are building a purpose built building! And if you are doing that, you really, REALLY should be hiring a known, accomplished, professional acoustical and/or structural engineer. But I can help you with what I know, and I can direct you to online resources that are freely available. Back in the day, I had to rely on books, yuck! Lol, but seriously, there is so much information, a phd's worth of information, freely available online. Of course, you may not want or have the time to spend digesting it all, and weighing the various theories, as acoustical engineering, like economic engineering, has many schools of thought, and within those schools, a broad spectrum of particular theories that are the product of explicit lab experimentation, or practical field experience. So, everything isn't as clear cut as we'd, as producers/mixers/masteringers (sorry, in a jaunty mood), would like. But there are some fundamentals that hold true, that can be applied to most any situation. So, where can I help you, if I can? How would you like to communicate?
@@alphanumeric1529 I'm also setting up a podcast/video studio; my email is dmalenda@gmail.com if you are willing to give some advice; I'd love to listen.
Dude, these are SO GOOD - I built my own in a different way and they definitely don't look as nice 😅 Great idea to use a MDF sheet to cut the frame bits, way cheaper than getting actual timber!
Excellent video. I have built about 75 of the the last 8 or so years. The only thing from a build perspective that I do differently is put the black material on the back AFTER the front material. It makes the back cleaner looking, but honestly no-one sees the back. Maybe I'm just a little OCD. Thanks for investing the time to share this. I hope your recordings and mixes continue to get better and better. Peace.
That's certainly another way to do it. I didn't want to risk any black fabric edges being visible from the side so elected to attach it first. Glad you got some value out of the video :)
I was looking at DIY ideas for acoustic panels for our church, since buying a single panel at Amazon would cost around $65. Multiply that a bunch of panels for a huge location. It gets expensive really fast. Thanks for sharing your creativity and plans. They will come in very handy. Also, excellent use of the French cleat. I was rattling my brain on a way to hang them.
It took about a week and a half, but between getting off of work and days off, I finally finished building and hanging 12 of these in my music room! Thank you so much for this very useful and helpful DIY video! I haven’t even recorded anything yet, but I can definitely hear a difference. I can’t wait to record and hear the difference it makes. Thanks again!
I just built panels for my own space. Wish I had found this BEFORE my project! After hearing the difference in my room, it will be my new "go to" suggestion for folks with home theaters! Well done video that covers all of the essentials. Good job!
This was so well thought out! I love a clean organized presentation! There are a few things I would alter and tweak, especially the wood choice, but I absolutely love the simple but effective design. Subscribed!
@@kadiummusicI'm also interested in why, there is no such difference between the absorption properties of other woods that would be considered anything more than marginal. The construction of these is actually quite perfect.
Nice build, but I hate MDF. I used pine myself. Lighter and easier to work with. I made a pair of 18x48" panels to hang on the opposite wall of my sliding door that has heavy curtains... kind of mirrors the mass of the curtains. They mimmic the pictures I also have hanging with them and used an extra set of curtains I ordered for the covering so they match perfectly. Both helped immensely with deadening the sound in my family/AV room and blend in without looking like most panels I've seen that are ugly.
I was waiting for you to clap your hands after the panels were fitted. Great video though, I'm just about to treat my new studio and this will be invaluable information for me. Thanks. 😎
T30 is actually how much it takes to decay for 60 dB, not 30. "Reverberation Time T30 - The reverberation time for 60 dB of room decay, based on a straight line curve fit between the -5 dB to -35 dB points on the Schroeder curve (Fig. 3). This time is doubled to be made consistent with the traditional reverberation time for 60 dB of decay (RT60)."
I have used fiberglass Air Duct Insulation (about 1" thick) to make window plugs. Cloth covers and friction fit works fine to kill some outside noise. Then just pop out and stand or hang for an extra panel when needed. I also made the cheapest panels from an acoustic ceiling panel wrapped with quilt batting and burlap covering. Spaced a few inches from the wall they kill some reflections. With a little imagination you can make some neat wall art panels. Still need to use some of your panels for better range. I have also seen the french cleat used in a studio with the wall section all along the wall so the panels can be moved and placed anywhere. Great video and included some of the test proof. Now on to some corner bass absorbers...
One little correction :) RT30 it’s actually the time for the sound impulse to decay of 60 dB, but as in homes there might be some background noises, then it is best to calculate the RT30, which analyses the drop off of 30 dB and then predicts the RT60 result. This is possible because the decay time of the impulse response of an enclosed space is linear over the dB axis. ✌️
to add a clarification...having space behind a panel improves the lower end absorption of the panel up to the point that the gap is less than half the thickness of the panel. Since you are using three and a half inch thick rockwool the maximum gap would be 1.75 inches. So your ceiling panels should be closer to the ceiling.
You have to search really hard but yeah that are normal decent honest human being left in this planet , i wonder why doesn’t you tube suggest this videos first it will save us a lot of time and keep us sane 🤣, thanks a lot for this awesome information brother 🙏🏻 God Bless
If you can make them an inch or two thicker, it would be even better for lower frequencies and would approach being bass traps. Something that I found out helps a lot is if you add a sheet of Sonopan at the back, it makes a major difference, look it up.
I agree, thicker would've been better, but I felt it was diminishing returns. The thickness of the insulation works perfect for this size and my office feels small enough as it is 😄 Also, good tip using sonopan on the back. Might have to try that on the next set.
@@42Pursuit yes I agree that for your particular case, you probably took the right decision. I mix death metal music, those pesky kicks will mud any room, I needed more absorption. Good stuff, have a nice week.
I have a basement woodshop and would really love if you can make some videos on noise reduction and fumes ventilation if possible keep up the good work
Nice job. Many of the other DIY acoustic panel videos don't give a lot of thought to safety. The guys don't wear masks and they leave the insulation bats open to the air in back. Using the lawn fabric was a great idea. I'm going to make thicker ones because I want to try to reduce the fundamental modes in my room. I will also add some thin acoustic tile on the front side to treat higher frequencies. I will use the waterfall graph from REW.
Thanks! I haven't actually noticed much of a difference in my shop, although I'm sure it helps, the magnitude of the noise from the tools is so loud it's an imperceptible improvement.
I do a similar build but quickly switched to pine due to frequent issues with MDF splitting, even after drilling pilot holes. It looks like in your video the MDF starts to split just from stapling as well. When it's all said and done, the glue holds it just fine, but the splitting was psychologically devastating to me :0
You're right, MDF isn't the strongest material when fastening into the edge. I decided to use it though as I was going for the cheapest option, and once it's wrapped in fabric it'll be quite secure even if the MDF splits a little when screwing it together. Another thing I found by making the mistake myself in the past is making sure to use the right size pilot hole when pre-drilling. Most materials it don't make a huge difference, but it's definitely necessary on MDF. Thanks for watching!
@@42Pursuitwhat size countersink bit did you use with your #8 screws? I have a set of #6 #8 #10 #12. I’m using the #8 bit on 9 guage screws and the MDF is splitting. I’m using a Brad nailer instead of a staple. I think my screws are too aggressive. Awesome video!
@@jaredtubaugh3119 I think I used a #8 bit on the size 8 screws. Maybe try a test using a #10 with your #9 screws. With brad nails I have a feeling that might give a sufficient hold.
Thanks! The general concept is similar to other videos, but I thought all of them had improvements that could be made with either cost, construction, or materials. And none that I found offered a broad-spectrum test before and after so I thought I'd give it a whirl :)
Excellent video. Did you use REW (Room EQ Wizard) for the spectrum test? Also, any thoughts on how folks without a SawStop and other high end tools can work effectively would be great. Adding all that equipment pumps the price per square foot pretty high. So... For folks who don't have all that... What kind of tips and/or advice would you give to keep the cost down? Again, video par excellence...!
The spectrum test used a piece of paid software that my friend had, I don't recall the name but I remember him saying it was pretty expensive, so probably not REW. That looks like an interesting option though...I may have to check that out. As far as equipment/tools, there's always a way to do it without the fancy tools, just takes some creativity :) There's not many woodworking projects you can't do with a drill, circular saw, and hand sander. I mentioned at 1:36 that a table saw wasn't necessary and the frames could be made with 1x4 pine boards. They would just need to be cut to length which would really only require a hand saw (or chop saw or circular saw). I think a motorized drill is something a DIYer should hopefully either have or be able to borrow. And a hand stapler is cheap enough that I think it could be purchased for this project without breaking the bank. The pneumatic stapler I used was just a convenience as I mentioned, and not necessary. Hope that helps! Thanks for your kind words and encouragement :)
Truly excellent video and great DIY instructions on how to build these panels. Measurements are crucial to validate your ears and it was wonderful you had someone with experience/tools/microphone to come perform this objective part of the verification of your work. I would make some adjustments to see if you can improve your room acoustics just a bit further. 1. It looks like you could use just one more panel on the ceiling in between the two you already have - that's a pretty wide gap over your listening position and speakers. 2. From the video it appears you only treated the walls just behind, to the side and above your desk. I imagine you could bring the four panels in from your work shop and place them behind your seating position. Since you have measurement tools plus your ears, it would be a quick setup to see if it enhances your room further. Small rooms like yours can find benefit from just a few more panels on those bare walls. 3. Try experimenting with placing some of your panel over the vertical corners of your room; in other words straddle some panels across the corners. This can help with low end frequency room modes (spikes/dips in response) as the corners of the room tend to return these frequencies back into the room with almost equal energy that was produced by the speakers. That 200Hz spike on the "after" might be alleviated by corner placement or just by bringing in a few more panels on your bare walls behind you. Anyway I'd love to see a follow up video on this as it would greatly benefit so many folks with similar sized rooms. Again great work!
@@avalanwa Thanks AV. As I stated previously above I complimented him on the excellent video and tremendous DIY tutorial. He asked for feedback at the end of his video so I provided some ideas for future videos. You may consider my points fluff, but I consider them polishing an already great job that he's done. Cheers!
This is the first video on this topic that included an empirical demonstration of the improvement. Your demonstration was very clear and explicit but a bit hard to follow because you went so fast. I guess that's what the pause button is for. Great job. Did you keep track of your construction and installation time? To make an apples-to-apples comparison of your cost to commercially built panels add let's say $10/hour for your time. What then is the total cost per panel? I'll bet that you still come out ahead but your time is still worth something. For other DIYers add in the cost of aggravation from mistakes and material spoilage (and possibly a trip to the ER). 😃
Thanks, I like having actual numbers myself so it's nice to know others appreciate it too. Sorry it seemed a bit fast, I think a lot of build videos take way too long so I try to make mine snappy and to the point. Judicious use of the pause button is encouraged 🙂 Time on something like this is a bit hard to track for a number of reasons. It takes a bit longer to film a project while you're building it, and it depends on the tool competency and efficiency of the one using the tools. Also, do you think getting supplies counts towards the overall time? I'd say an average DIYer could make a dozen panels in one long day (not counting a trip to the ER 😏 ) but your mileage may vary.
The problem is that the insulation isn't "safe" for a living area because it's made w/ formaldehyde. It's designed to be behind walls, not in front of them. So, over time they will create dust, and some of that dust will have toxic chemicals. You will breath in those chemicals.
Great vid! I'm looking into sound treatments for both my makeshift studio at home & also our office at work. I'm good with tools & can build this no problem. So glad to see something that actually makes sense & works. So tired of seeing videos hyping up the garbage 1" thick, fugly foam 12x12 Amazon squares. Lol.
I wish with all of the effort you put into building these that you had built them thicker, they are too thin to properly tame the low frequencies in the 30Hz-80Hz range. You can however still increase the spacing between the back of the panels and the wall, no more than a 1:1 thickness:spacing ratio, to essentially "double" the thickness of the panels which will enable them to trap lower frequencies, basically a free upgrade if you can adjust your mounting solution
While it would "technically" be an improvement for frequencies in that range, it would increase the absorption coefficient from something like 0.1 to 0.15 which would be an imperceptible improvement. Panels like these are never going to be able to significantly attenuate frequencies that low which is fine because reverb of low frequencies are hardly ever the large issue in typical office/studio sized rooms.
Yes I used Safe n Sound as well. Also foam works well but you need a minimum of 2”, I have mostly 4” wedges. I’m checking out this video because I’m going to make more panels but hey, if I can learn other methods, I’m game. Solid video. I’ll also add, even without the graph, you can tell immediately the difference from the beginning of the video to after you hung the panels.
Totally! Thicker foam would've been great but I couldn't justify the cost, especially after seeing how well the safe'n'sound insulation worked. You've got a good ear, I agree, there's definitely an improvement before and after. Love me a good supporting graph though too!
You know... you can knock down that reverb drop by maybe another 20% with 5 to 7 layers of cheap cotton bath towels. Using 1x2 or 1x4 instead of MDF and you've dropped the price significantly. And, you don't need the air gap between the wall and the unit. Of course you will have to do some sowing and perhaps ironing as the towels need to be tacked together to keep them from sagging, etc. over time. The bottom end effectiveness may be a little worse but mostly you are dealing with sound from 300hz to 9000hz for nonmusical room acoustics (weighted heavily towards the lower middle of that range). Unless you live where there are a lot of trucks or industrial noise, in which case... just move. I think "DIY Perks" did something on this. Really cool workshop though. There is great lust in my heart... 😁 P.S. You will find that no matter what you use, keeping them clean will be a giant pain.
Yeah, towels are a great option. Sometimes difficult to find enough cheap ones at the quantities needed to acoustically treat a large-ish room though so that's why I went with readily available home-store materials. DIY Perks did a great job on his video for sure. I am curious though, what's your source on the 20% better performance from towels? Also, I have to disagree, having some air-gap behind the panels does make a measurable difference. My priority was for frequencies in the speaking vocal range, but there was a pretty good broad-spectrum improvement. Corner traps based on the same design could be added if the lower frequencies needed more work. I'd wager that these work just about as well for musical room reverb control too especially after the data confirmed the reverb reduction.
Thanks! Good tools certainly are nice but these are still very much doable with just a circular saw, drill, and stapler, and by using 1x4 boards for the frame.
I've made these, but I dont wrap the fabric around the sides. I use pine, and leave the sides and bottom and top exposed. That way I'm doing the front and back only, and definitely use a pneumatic staple gun.
I didn't know you needed acoustically transparent fabric or that it existed, and so today when I went shopping for the fabric before watching this video, I've ended up taking one I liked which almost resembles a "straw bag" x_x Hope I didn't do a huge mistake... x_x
Excellent and thank you for such an informative video. Would you be willing to show us how to build effective bass absorption panels for 110 Hz and below? There's very little info on UA-cam other than Acoustic Fields' amazing panels, which are way beyond most home budgets.
Thanks! The lower ranges can be a bit tricky to measure which I'm assuming is why there isn't a lot of examples out there of the before/after effects of panels. I'll put it on my list and see if I can come up with something one of these days...
I've seen the UA-cam channel In the Mix do something similar to this with a slightly different design. This one unfortunately takes a lot more tools, so I would look to the In the Mix video. They also have better insulation suggestions.
Their video is indeed pretty great! But if you paid attention to my video as you watched it, I explained how you don't need any pneumatic tools or a table saw to construct these panels as you can get 1x4 boards off the shelf so all you need to to is hand saw them to length which is pretty quick and easy to do. All you really need is a drill, stapler, hand saw, and a pair of scissors.
Great video! But if I instead use 1x4 pine boards for the frame (no table saw), wouldn’t there be an extra inch where the 3” thick insulation would flop around?
1x4 boards are actually 0.75″ x 3.5″ so there would only be an extra half inch. And with how fluffy the insulation is, I don't think there'd be any flopping around with that little bit of extra depth. Cheers!
Pretty amazed that it seems like all of the "pro" acoustic panels are like $20-30 in materials but hundreds of dollars in cost. I need to make a shop and crank these out....
You _can_ have the cutting done at your big-box hardware store on their panel saw... but I wouldn't recommend it. It will be done by an hourly employee who has little to no interest in your project except that it has interrupted the work he was doing that the manager is already up his butt about getting done. I've have more projects ruined by choosing this short-cut only to get my wood home and discover it was measured wrong, or cut out-of-square, or watched as the employee ran the old-dull saw-blade through my pannel so fast that it ripped out the edge... all resulting in re-planning my cuts or re-squaring the wood and creating more waste off-cuts. Just borrow a friend's truck and cut it yourself. (Not that my experience has resulted in much higher quality cuts by doing it myself.) Great design. Even without the test data the sound is remarkably less reverby and even a bit richer. I'll have to -steal- copy that idea myself.
Bold statement to say those panels are just as good as high quality ones without testing the commercial ones - really wish you did and provide numbers with test, cuz now I have to take just your word for it
Bold statements coming from someone named 'spicy diarrhea'. Next time watch the video before you comment. I never said they were just as good. Also the title clearly states 'cheap DIY panels'. If you want to spend a few hundred bucks on pro acoustic panels and send them to me to test and share the information for free, be my guest. Otherwise, go troll somewhere else.
I'm not sure what the pro level analysis software is but there is an iOS app that can do a reasonable reverb test from the sound impulse of clapping while it's analyzing the room. It's called 'ClapIR Acoustics Measurement Tool'. Give that a shot!
Thank you for this great video, i´m gonna start building from this excellent tutorial. I do have a question, how many inches thick are each rockwool plate?
Thanks! The rockwool is spec'd to fill a space 3" deep. It's compressible so there's a little variance above and below that where it would work alright for sound dampening.
Well done. For monitoring and mixing, you’ve made your room better. For recording acoustic guitar or vocals, I wonder whether movable gobos would be more or less effective than your wall/ceiling ones?
I think that would be likely more effective. Placing them closer would increase the absorption closer to the source and could be a lot more tunable. In my case I just wanted a set and forget solution, so walls and ceiling works for me :)
Thanks. Just I do not like that rock wool thing in my room. I am thinking of making them with the recycled fabric sheets that are used for sound isolation, they should not make me scratch like a crazy like the rock/glass wool does. :)
Definitely. That is a pretty big space so you'll need at least a dozen panels before you start noticing a difference. The more the merrier so I'd shoot for at least 24 of the size I made in the video.
Not really budget anymore when you calculate in all that wood and especially the tools. The best budget option for broad spectrum absorption is Basotect foam imho. It has the right drag coefficient, you don’t need to assemble anything and because they’re foam they don’t weigh much. You also don’t have the health risks of fiberglass and they’re only about 30€ a piece
The price of wood now as opposed to when the video was made only increases the price $3.15 more per panel. So clearly still a low budget option. As for the price of the tools, a drill, stapler, hand saw, and scissors don't really add up to much, especially seeing as it's a DIY project. You'd be hard pressed to find a DIY project that didn't require some sort of basic tools. Basotect may be a good option but it's not easy to source or purchase for many parts of the world.
@@42Pursuit Yeah it’s not widely available unfortunately. People in America also tend to have tools like tablesaws or at least know friends who have tools. Here in Germany most people don’t even have more than 3 screwdrivers lol
Great panels! I wonder if the panels help isolating the entire room from my music so that my neighbours won't hear my bass that loud anymore? Or would I need to put roxul isolation in my walls?
It'll help a bit but these panels will mostly help with reverberation. If you want to isolate sound from traveling through walls it'll take a bit more work. Look up 'theater room building' videos, you'll find all kind of resources for what you're wanting to do. I believe the the 'Home RenoVision' channel has some good videos on soundproofing. Check 'em out.
@@42Pursuitwow thank you so much for your reply! Great advice I really appreciate it. Seems like I got a lot of work in front of me😅 you earned yourself a sub!
Grey Face, isolation and treatment are definitely 2 different things. You gta separate them in your mind. Treatment does nothing to isolate. Nothing. Isolation must be built into the structure. Imagine a fish tank full of water- there’s a leak in the tank and water (sound) is dripping out- nothing that goldfish puts on the walls of his or her room is going to stop that leaking. There is of course structural transmission where sound carries through a structure of a shared wall. Panels might have some effect there but so small I don’t think it would even be measurable. Check out Acoustic Insider or Acoustic Fields for extensive information on these topics.
Hey man, really impressive from the beginning till the end! Quick question: our church room is about 1,300sq fr and 10’ height, how many panels and at what distribution rate would you say to our space? Your suggestion is greatly appreciated. Thanks
That really depends on a lot of factors including room length and width, what material the ceiling, walls, and floor are made out of and how absorptive they are, if there are loudspeakers and where they're placed, what typically occupies the space including things like people and chairs, and how much you want to reduce the reverberations. It'll take some research on your part to know proper placement and how much coverage is needed if you really want to dial it in. If you're looking for a rule of thumb, I've had some luck with 1/2 coverage on the upper half of walls on the opposite side of a room from the speakers. The longest distance reflections are the ones you want to target first to eliminate the largest reverb component.
Great work. Does it sound different to your ears? I would like to know. Also, you are using sound absorption panels. Have your considered building sound diffuser panels?
Definitely sounds better to the ear. Since the floor, walls, and ceiling were all reflective surfaces in my room I elected to go the absorption route. It sounds fine now, but if I had to add any more acoustic improvements I'd probably elect for some diffusers to keep the room from sounding too 'dead'.
Correction, I say that RT30 plot is the time it takes for the reverb to decay by 30dB. It's actually that time multiplied by 2. It's a straight-line curve fit extrapolation for a 60dB decay.
Measuring 60dB of decay accurately is difficult, so the time to decay 30dB is measured, then doubling that measured time is approximately how long it takes to decay 60dB.
Hope that clears up any confusion.
@Kevin COVINGTON haha, it's a workshop, what can I say, if I kept the floor clean I wouldn't get anything done.
I think it took 3 tries.
Thanks for watchin!
@kevincovington Great question! LOL
Hey man. You keep calling these “budget panels” but the truth is, these are simply panels. Exactly the way they are constructed when purchased from any retailer. In fact, better constructed. So yeah, amazing job.
Ah yes, my perspective was that they're a budget option compared to getting an off-the-shelf commercial panel. And the construction method was the cheapest way I found in my research for something that wasn't going to be junk when finished.
Thanks for watching and your positive comment!
I wanna see someone build them from random junk foam and scrap wood like I do lol.
@@kapnkronic8051 but that's not an acoustic panel. Just an ugly wall mounted thing. It doesn't actually work
This was not just a demonstration on how to make panels , but how it was explained . Much love & respect 💜
These are some of the smoothest panels I've seen made.
Hey thanks!
Great video... I’ve fallen down the rabbit hole of acoustic panels, realized I need to tune my office, and your video (and approach to production) is easily the best I’ve seen. Elegant in your simplicity. Thanks for sharing...
Thanks! Be careful, it's a deep rabbit hole ;)
Great idea. I am doing my sons room and I was going to buy those foam panels. So I came to you tube for reviews and came across your video. I not only like your idea but I noticed you have commonsense just by seeing how you built your panels. Sound crazy but as a skilled tradesman you notice these things in people. Great job and you have a new subscriber. 👍
Such kind words! Thank you very much!
Liked just for showing how to do a fancy fold.
Hahaha :D Thanks!
Very well thought out and executed. Probably the best design I've seen on UA-cam. I would prefer solid wood 1" X 4" boards over particle board. The particle board seems too labor intensive if you don't have an outstanding woodshop like yourself. Plus I try to stay away from table saws as much as possible. The other thing is I would prefer a different color felt or material. These two things do not take away from the success of what you accomplished in this video. Thanks for sharing. Excellent...
Thanks for your kind words! You bet, 1x4 boards are a great option for sure, I just chose mdf because at the time it was the cheapest option and once the fabric is stretched over the box they're quite stable. And after all, they'll just be hanging on wall so mdf is plenty strong enough.
Thanks for watchin!
It might be hard but particle board absorbs energy Better and my goal is to reduce reflections
@@Dannys.channel particle board actually reflects sound well, soft woods absorb sounds better, hardwoods do a combination
This is the best video on this topic that I've seen on UA-cam. Great job!
This is the best diy acoustic panel video I’ve found. After researching how dangerous breathing in insulation is I had a hard time figuring out what I would use to back the panels so the insulation was not exposed and this video did the trick.
Sweet! Thanks so much!
Fantastic video! When I find the time I need to implement in my shop!
Nice to see a skilled craftsperson make these - very similar to how I was thinking of making them (still can't believe I haven't seen anyone else use french cleats). The cardboard locating template is a great idea and the fancy fold is legit. Nice work!
Thanks for such a kind comment! I'm glad you liked the video!🙂
Sometimes furniture and rugs help as well. For crossing waves and the up and down between floor and ceiling.
Besides that the lower fregeuncy bumps can be countered by bass traps made in the sane way, mostly. The panels you made are like general purpose ones, which are SUPER important for getting a generally pretty good sound!
Thank you, we live in an apartment with our daughter who has autism and she is really loud when she has a meltdown . In order to be respectful to our neighbors we have been looking for a way to sound proof her room. Thank you for this we will be doing this.
This is not sound proofing it is acoustic treatment sound proofing is completely different
Tip: spray the cloth with water afterwards, it shrinks the cloth for a smoother finish (depending on the cloth, I use hessian).
Oooo! That's a great tip! Thanks!
Thank you! One of best straight forward tutorials for making panels.
Awesome! I'm glad you found it useful!
@Laura Brown You aren't sure what your talking about at all. Acoustic curtains is not a preferred method of address echoes. For flutters, at least 2 inch thick sound insulation panels would be best to absorb and decay those frequencies.
Acoustic curtains should only be an after thought.
Stop misleading people.
I recommend recessing the back of the insulation with a bread knife or insulation knife to accommodate the depth of the backer board. That will keep the insulation from pushing out into the front fabric as you can see at the end of the video (look at the bottom of the panel to the left of the desk - little bulge there)
You can better utilize your absorption with targeted placement.
First, a concept: a comb filter is created when the sound from your speakers that travels directly to your ears is mixed/interfered with by the sound coming out of your speakers that reflects off of your primary reflection points on your side walls, then bouncing off the walls into your ears. That time delay, the difference between the direct path, and the primary reflection path interferes with accurate monitoring. Basically, it will be harder to judge the frequency content of the audio you are monitoring because some frequencies will be boosted, and others cut by the effect of the comb filter, and low frequencies will be the most impacted.
You can identify your primary reflection points by sitting in your monitoring position, at your desk, having your audio homie move a hand mirror along your side walls, and when you can see your speakers in the mirror from you monitoring position, not by moving but just by rotating your head, the mirror is in your primary reflection point. It is far more efficient to place your sound absorbers in that location, as they will absorb the lower frequencies at the reflection point, rather than just reducing overall sound decay times. This will clean up the audio you monitor from your speakers.
Further, what are the two largest sides of the cube of the room you're monitoring in? The floor and the ceiling. Now, which two sides of the cube are the closest together? Again, very likely your floor and ceiling. This is a one, two punch of bad acoustics. The shortest dimension between two parallel walls creates the largest problems with axial room modes, the greatest frequency bumps created by standing waves. You can have certain frequencies boosted by 16db, and remember sound doubles in volume every 6db, so think about how loud some frequencies will sound versus how loud they actually are. It is therefore most important to reduce those shortest axis room reflections. Also, the larger the surface area of the reflective parallel sides of your room create the most input into the standing waves of your room which cloud the audio you are monitoring. So, it is more important to absorb the sound above you rather than the sound off the side walls or the sound off the front and back walls, though, with your absorbers placed in your side primary reflection points, you will see a large increase in the clarity of your audio.
So, like finding your primary reflection points on the side walls, you can do the same process with your audio homie and find the primary reflection points above you on the ceiling. Remember to sit in your monitoring position, and just swivel your head up. When you can see your speaker in the mirror, the mirror is at the primary reflection point. Place your greatest depth and amount of absorption there. Though, I don't recommend an air gap greater than the total thickness of your absorption material. So, if your material is 4 inches thick, only leave up to a 4 inch air gap between the ceiling and the backside of the absorber.
And a sub note: it would be best to situate your desk and monitoring in the most advantageous position within your room. I doubt you're up for it, but you might want to move your desk back a foot or more from the front wall, the wall in front of you, behind your monitors. And, you should be sitting equidistant between your side walls, facing in the direction of the longest dimension between two parallel walls. This will greatly increase the quality of the acoustics absent any absorption or diffusion. And then, when you do deploy your absorption in the most acoustically relevant locations, aka, at your primary reflection points, you'll have an even greater benefit from that absorption. Your monitoring audio quality may not be that important to you, but I cannot recommend it enough. I dread monitoring in a room of your size. I hope I never have to go back to a room like that, but if I did, I would be certain to use everything at my disposal to fight the terrible acoustics of standard American room sizes/dimensions, which it seems are almost designed to produce jarring, bad sound quality for the inhabitants of those rooms. When I finally got setup in a larger room, and I was able to setup my workstation at the acoustic sweet spot of the room, even without absorption, it was a stunning revelation. It is like hugging your wife while you're both wearing your winter jackets, versus hugging completely naked, if you'll forgive the metaphor. It's absolutely incomparably intimate when you're in the sweet spot ;)
All the best.
What a reply; any chance you'd be willing to help me out with some consultation on a new space I'm setting up? Be happy to shoot you a consult fee!
@@derikmalenda6675 I'm not an acoustician! Several decades ago I build a recording studio, so did quite a bit of acoustics research to design and build that space. And recently, I've been hoping to upgrade my current recording/mixing location, so have dug back into they wild, unintuitive world of acoustics.
So, I couldn't accept a consult fee. But I'd be happy to help you. I can apply what I know to your particular situation, as every situation is different, and no situation is ideal, everything with acoustic spaces is a compromise to some extent or another, usually to a greater extent, lol! Unless, of course, you're starting with bare ground, and are building a purpose built building! And if you are doing that, you really, REALLY should be hiring a known, accomplished, professional acoustical and/or structural engineer.
But I can help you with what I know, and I can direct you to online resources that are freely available. Back in the day, I had to rely on books, yuck! Lol, but seriously, there is so much information, a phd's worth of information, freely available online. Of course, you may not want or have the time to spend digesting it all, and weighing the various theories, as acoustical engineering, like economic engineering, has many schools of thought, and within those schools, a broad spectrum of particular theories that are the product of explicit lab experimentation, or practical field experience. So, everything isn't as clear cut as we'd, as producers/mixers/masteringers (sorry, in a jaunty mood), would like. But there are some fundamentals that hold true, that can be applied to most any situation.
So, where can I help you, if I can? How would you like to communicate?
@@alphanumeric1529 I'm also setting up a podcast/video studio; my email is dmalenda@gmail.com if you are willing to give some advice; I'd love to listen.
Dude, these are SO GOOD - I built my own in a different way and they definitely don't look as nice 😅 Great idea to use a MDF sheet to cut the frame bits, way cheaper than getting actual timber!
You can here the difference in the video before and after from you just talking to the camera. Super cool
Awesome! I was hoping some would be able to hear the improvement just from the video. Thanks for watchin!
Great job! Love the Hospital Corners!
Aren't they great! So crisp and clean!
Excellent video. I have built about 75 of the the last 8 or so years. The only thing from a build perspective that I do differently is put the black material on the back AFTER the front material. It makes the back cleaner looking, but honestly no-one sees the back. Maybe I'm just a little OCD. Thanks for investing the time to share this. I hope your recordings and mixes continue to get better and better. Peace.
That's certainly another way to do it. I didn't want to risk any black fabric edges being visible from the side so elected to attach it first.
Glad you got some value out of the video :)
Thank you! This was extremely helpful. I am building my panels next week and I'm definitely going to be referring to this for guidance
Awesome! Glad it was helpful!
Isn't there a risk that the small particles of rock wool could be dispersed into the air?
I was looking at DIY ideas for acoustic panels for our church, since buying a single panel at Amazon would cost around $65. Multiply that a bunch of panels for a huge location. It gets expensive really fast. Thanks for sharing your creativity and plans. They will come in very handy. Also, excellent use of the French cleat. I was rattling my brain on a way to hang them.
Awesome, I'm so glad this video gave you some good ideas! Thanks for your kind words, and thanks for watchin!
It took about a week and a half, but between getting off of work and days off, I finally finished building and hanging 12 of these in my music room!
Thank you so much for this very useful and helpful DIY video! I haven’t even recorded anything yet, but I can definitely hear a difference. I can’t wait to record and hear the difference it makes.
Thanks again!
Right on! I'm super glad the video was helpful for you. Best of luck on your future recordings!
@@42Pursuit Thanks again!
I just built panels for my own space. Wish I had found this BEFORE my project! After hearing the difference in my room, it will be my new "go to" suggestion for folks with home theaters! Well done video that covers all of the essentials. Good job!
They make such a great improvement don't they?! Glad you liked my video, and thanks for leaving such a kind comment!
This was so well thought out! I love a clean organized presentation! There are a few things I would alter and tweak, especially the wood choice, but I absolutely love the simple but effective design. Subscribed!
Thank you! I'm glad you found the video useful for idea generation!
Interesting, why would you change the wood? 🤔
@@kadiummusicI'm also interested in why, there is no such difference between the absorption properties of other woods that would be considered anything more than marginal.
The construction of these is actually quite perfect.
Nice build, but I hate MDF. I used pine myself. Lighter and easier to work with.
I made a pair of 18x48" panels to hang on the opposite wall of my sliding door that has heavy curtains... kind of mirrors the mass of the curtains. They mimmic the pictures I also have hanging with them and used an extra set of curtains I ordered for the covering so they match perfectly. Both helped immensely with deadening the sound in my family/AV room and blend in without looking like most panels I've seen that are ugly.
I bookmarked this video because it's the best one for making these panels that I've seen. Thank you!
Awesome! Glad you found it useful!
I was waiting for you to clap your hands after the panels were fitted. Great video though, I'm just about to treat my new studio and this will be invaluable information for me. Thanks. 😎
I will make my panels for the second time... this video is really great! Shows some interesting tips!
One of the more clear/concise videos on how to do this. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
The weed block backing is a nice little touch. I dig it.
Thanks! I thought it seemed like the perfect stuff for the back.
Thanks for watchin!
T30 is actually how much it takes to decay for 60 dB, not 30. "Reverberation Time T30 - The reverberation time for 60 dB of room decay, based on a straight line curve fit between the -5 dB to -35 dB points on the Schroeder curve (Fig. 3). This time is doubled to be made consistent with the traditional reverberation time for 60 dB of decay (RT60)."
@@4everB2 After the sound goes through the panel one way, it has to bounce off the wall and go back through the panel again....
Great video, very informative with simple, very well done editing (Which is a compliment because I hate overdone editing.)
Hey thanks! I appreciate the kind words! That's my goal with videos so it's good to know it's appreciated 👍
I see this phrase under many videos but I don't really get it, those video weren't the best
THIS IS THE BEST VIDEO ON ULTRA CHEAP ACOUSTIC PANELS♥️
Thank you for your kind words! They're the best method I've seen and it's nice to know someone agrees ☺️
Thanks for watching!
I have used fiberglass Air Duct Insulation (about 1" thick) to make window plugs. Cloth covers and friction fit works fine to kill some outside noise. Then just pop out and stand or hang for an extra panel when needed. I also made the cheapest panels from an acoustic ceiling panel wrapped with quilt batting and burlap covering. Spaced a few inches from the wall they kill some reflections. With a little imagination you can make some neat wall art panels. Still need to use some of your panels for better range. I have also seen the french cleat used in a studio with the wall section all along the wall so the panels can be moved and placed anywhere. Great video and included some of the test proof. Now on to some corner bass absorbers...
One little correction :)
RT30 it’s actually the time for the sound impulse to decay of 60 dB, but as in homes there might be some background noises, then it is best to calculate the RT30, which analyses the drop off of 30 dB and then predicts the RT60 result. This is possible because the decay time of the impulse response of an enclosed space is linear over the dB axis. ✌️
to add a clarification...having space behind a panel improves the lower end absorption of the panel up to the point that the gap is less than half the thickness of the panel. Since you are using three and a half inch thick rockwool the maximum gap would be 1.75 inches. So your ceiling panels should be closer to the ceiling.
You have to search really hard but yeah that are normal decent honest human being left in this planet , i wonder why doesn’t you tube suggest this videos first it will save us a lot of time and keep us sane 🤣, thanks a lot for this awesome information brother 🙏🏻 God Bless
Thank you for your kind words! Glad you got some value from the video 🙂
If you can make them an inch or two thicker, it would be even better for lower frequencies and would approach being bass traps. Something that I found out helps a lot is if you add a sheet of Sonopan at the back, it makes a major difference, look it up.
I agree, thicker would've been better, but I felt it was diminishing returns. The thickness of the insulation works perfect for this size and my office feels small enough as it is 😄
Also, good tip using sonopan on the back. Might have to try that on the next set.
@@42Pursuit yes I agree that for your particular case, you probably took the right decision. I mix death metal music, those pesky kicks will mud any room, I needed more absorption. Good stuff, have a nice week.
Wasn't that a 200 Hz standing wave there? That could mean you could use more absorption on low freqs...
Best video on UA-cam!
Great video, yes, I would love to get an update on your shop acoustical treatment. I am building out both a shop and audio/video editing room
I have a basement woodshop and would really love if you can make some videos on noise reduction and fumes ventilation if possible
keep up the good work
Awesome! I'm definitely going to try to do some more experimentation and see what improvements can be made.
That's a really handy guide. Thanks!
Awesome, glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!
Nice job. Many of the other DIY acoustic panel videos don't give a lot of thought to safety. The guys don't wear masks and they leave the insulation bats open to the air in back. Using the lawn fabric was a great idea. I'm going to make thicker ones because I want to try to reduce the fundamental modes in my room. I will also add some thin acoustic tile on the front side to treat higher frequencies. I will use the waterfall graph from REW.
Thanks for your encouraging feedback!
And I like your ideas! Those should be killer panels for broad spectrum absorption 👍🏼
Nice hospital corners!
😎 👌🏼
Nicely done! I saw a UA-cam make similar panels, but your presentation is awesome! YES. I'd like to see the results in your shop.
Thanks! I haven't actually noticed much of a difference in my shop, although I'm sure it helps, the magnitude of the noise from the tools is so loud it's an imperceptible improvement.
super underrated appreciate the dedication and knowledge
Much appreciated!
I do a similar build but quickly switched to pine due to frequent issues with MDF splitting, even after drilling pilot holes. It looks like in your video the MDF starts to split just from stapling as well. When it's all said and done, the glue holds it just fine, but the splitting was psychologically devastating to me :0
side note, i would LOVE to have that workshop!
You're right, MDF isn't the strongest material when fastening into the edge. I decided to use it though as I was going for the cheapest option, and once it's wrapped in fabric it'll be quite secure even if the MDF splits a little when screwing it together. Another thing I found by making the mistake myself in the past is making sure to use the right size pilot hole when pre-drilling. Most materials it don't make a huge difference, but it's definitely necessary on MDF.
Thanks for watching!
@@42Pursuitwhat size countersink bit did you use with your #8 screws? I have a set of #6 #8 #10 #12. I’m using the #8 bit on 9 guage screws and the MDF is splitting. I’m using a Brad nailer instead of a staple. I think my screws are too aggressive.
Awesome video!
@@jaredtubaugh3119 I think I used a #8 bit on the size 8 screws. Maybe try a test using a #10 with your #9 screws. With brad nails I have a feeling that might give a sufficient hold.
You are amazing! Awesome video and instruction!
Thank you for your generosity honey! xoxo
This is a great project. But I do remember seeing a similar projecrbon youtube years ago. This one has a ceiling diy addition. Awesome!
Thanks! The general concept is similar to other videos, but I thought all of them had improvements that could be made with either cost, construction, or materials. And none that I found offered a broad-spectrum test before and after so I thought I'd give it a whirl :)
@@42Pursuit and you successfully achieved it!!!
I see rockwool, I say bayeee. OK, I stayed for the MDF frame. Nice.
For basstrap you need about double the thickness, rest the same.
Great video! Really nice editing, super informative aswell :)
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it!
Brilliant. Very well done! Now I’m on a mission to do mine. Glad I found your video.
Awesome, glad you found it helpful! Best of luck on making yours!
Spoonflower can print photos on fabric for a custom panel look.
Thank U, excellent presentation in short form (really like that) Did you find this helped reduce sound that comes from the other side of the wall?
Excellent video. Did you use REW (Room EQ Wizard) for the spectrum test? Also, any thoughts on how folks without a SawStop and other high end tools can work effectively would be great. Adding all that equipment pumps the price per square foot pretty high. So... For folks who don't have all that... What kind of tips and/or advice would you give to keep the cost down?
Again, video par excellence...!
The spectrum test used a piece of paid software that my friend had, I don't recall the name but I remember him saying it was pretty expensive, so probably not REW. That looks like an interesting option though...I may have to check that out.
As far as equipment/tools, there's always a way to do it without the fancy tools, just takes some creativity :) There's not many woodworking projects you can't do with a drill, circular saw, and hand sander.
I mentioned at 1:36 that a table saw wasn't necessary and the frames could be made with 1x4 pine boards. They would just need to be cut to length which would really only require a hand saw (or chop saw or circular saw). I think a motorized drill is something a DIYer should hopefully either have or be able to borrow. And a hand stapler is cheap enough that I think it could be purchased for this project without breaking the bank. The pneumatic stapler I used was just a convenience as I mentioned, and not necessary.
Hope that helps! Thanks for your kind words and encouragement :)
This is one of the best tutorials on this topic. Great results too. I may use pine and keep it exposed for aesthetics.
Thanks! I'm glad you got some value out of the video. I like your idea of keeping pine exposed for aesthetics too 👌🏼
Truly excellent video and great DIY instructions on how to build these panels. Measurements are crucial to validate your ears and it was wonderful you had someone with experience/tools/microphone to come perform this objective part of the verification of your work.
I would make some adjustments to see if you can improve your room acoustics just a bit further.
1. It looks like you could use just one more panel on the ceiling in between the two you already have - that's a pretty wide gap over your listening position and speakers.
2. From the video it appears you only treated the walls just behind, to the side and above your desk. I imagine you could bring the four panels in from your work shop and place them behind your seating position. Since you have measurement tools plus your ears, it would be a quick setup to see if it enhances your room further. Small rooms like yours can find benefit from just a few more panels on those bare walls.
3. Try experimenting with placing some of your panel over the vertical corners of your room; in other words straddle some panels across the corners. This can help with low end frequency room modes (spikes/dips in response) as the corners of the room tend to return these frequencies back into the room with almost equal energy that was produced by the speakers. That 200Hz spike on the "after" might be alleviated by corner placement or just by bringing in a few more panels on your bare walls behind you.
Anyway I'd love to see a follow up video on this as it would greatly benefit so many folks with similar sized rooms. Again great work!
I think he's done a magnificent job. He got the message across. Anything beyond that is fluff.
@@avalanwa Thanks AV. As I stated previously above I complimented him on the excellent video and tremendous DIY tutorial. He asked for feedback at the end of his video so I provided some ideas for future videos. You may consider my points fluff, but I consider them polishing an already great job that he's done. Cheers!
Thanks for your kind words and constructive input and ideas! When I get around to making the next set I'll definitely keep your suggestions in mind. 👍
@@42Pursuit Cheers and keep up the cool work!
Cool setup and interesting results, and wicked burn on the haters! Cheers.
Thanks! You know what they say, 'Haters gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate.'
Thanks for watchin!
This is the first video on this topic that included an empirical demonstration of the improvement. Your demonstration was very clear and explicit but a bit hard to follow because you went so fast. I guess that's what the pause button is for. Great job.
Did you keep track of your construction and installation time? To make an apples-to-apples comparison of your cost to commercially built panels add let's say $10/hour for your time. What then is the total cost per panel? I'll bet that you still come out ahead but your time is still worth something. For other DIYers add in the cost of aggravation from mistakes and material spoilage (and possibly a trip to the ER). 😃
Thanks, I like having actual numbers myself so it's nice to know others appreciate it too.
Sorry it seemed a bit fast, I think a lot of build videos take way too long so I try to make mine snappy and to the point. Judicious use of the pause button is encouraged 🙂
Time on something like this is a bit hard to track for a number of reasons. It takes a bit longer to film a project while you're building it, and it depends on the tool competency and efficiency of the one using the tools. Also, do you think getting supplies counts towards the overall time? I'd say an average DIYer could make a dozen panels in one long day (not counting a trip to the ER 😏 ) but your mileage may vary.
👍
The problem is that the insulation isn't "safe" for a living area because it's made w/ formaldehyde. It's designed to be behind walls, not in front of them. So, over time they will create dust, and some of that dust will have toxic chemicals. You will breath in those chemicals.
Great vid! I'm looking into sound treatments for both my makeshift studio at home & also our office at work. I'm good with tools & can build this no problem. So glad to see something that actually makes sense & works. So tired of seeing videos hyping up the garbage 1" thick, fugly foam 12x12 Amazon squares. Lol.
Glad you got some value from the video! Yeah, those foam squares are only slightly better than worthless for acoustics.
Thank you, seriously one of the best tutorials on UA-cam plus the added value of blueprints and material lists. Love it! 🙏
Glad it was helpful!
I wish with all of the effort you put into building these that you had built them thicker, they are too thin to properly tame the low frequencies in the 30Hz-80Hz range. You can however still increase the spacing between the back of the panels and the wall, no more than a 1:1 thickness:spacing ratio, to essentially "double" the thickness of the panels which will enable them to trap lower frequencies, basically a free upgrade if you can adjust your mounting solution
While it would "technically" be an improvement for frequencies in that range, it would increase the absorption coefficient from something like 0.1 to 0.15 which would be an imperceptible improvement. Panels like these are never going to be able to significantly attenuate frequencies that low which is fine because reverb of low frequencies are hardly ever the large issue in typical office/studio sized rooms.
Very well made! I would have also added diagonal corner traps though
I think his concern was the mid - high frequencies.
@@avalanwa Why would you only treat mid and high frequencies?
I would have sorted the monitor height/ tweeter position and the LCD screens blocking the path of the sound, long before worrying about panels 🤷🏻♂️
Yes I used Safe n Sound as well. Also foam works well but you need a minimum of 2”, I have mostly 4” wedges. I’m checking out this video because I’m going to make more panels but hey, if I can learn other methods, I’m game. Solid video. I’ll also add, even without the graph, you can tell immediately the difference from the beginning of the video to after you hung the panels.
Totally! Thicker foam would've been great but I couldn't justify the cost, especially after seeing how well the safe'n'sound insulation worked.
You've got a good ear, I agree, there's definitely an improvement before and after. Love me a good supporting graph though too!
You know... you can knock down that reverb drop by maybe another 20% with 5 to 7 layers of cheap cotton bath towels. Using 1x2 or 1x4 instead of MDF and you've dropped the price significantly. And, you don't need the air gap between the wall and the unit. Of course you will have to do some sowing and perhaps ironing as the towels need to be tacked together to keep them from sagging, etc. over time.
The bottom end effectiveness may be a little worse but mostly you are dealing with sound from 300hz to 9000hz for nonmusical room acoustics (weighted heavily towards the lower middle of that range). Unless you live where there are a lot of trucks or industrial noise, in which case... just move.
I think "DIY Perks" did something on this.
Really cool workshop though. There is great lust in my heart... 😁
P.S. You will find that no matter what you use, keeping them clean will be a giant pain.
Yeah, towels are a great option. Sometimes difficult to find enough cheap ones at the quantities needed to acoustically treat a large-ish room though so that's why I went with readily available home-store materials. DIY Perks did a great job on his video for sure.
I am curious though, what's your source on the 20% better performance from towels? Also, I have to disagree, having some air-gap behind the panels does make a measurable difference.
My priority was for frequencies in the speaking vocal range, but there was a pretty good broad-spectrum improvement. Corner traps based on the same design could be added if the lower frequencies needed more work. I'd wager that these work just about as well for musical room reverb control too especially after the data confirmed the reverb reduction.
Very informative and fun too watch!
Glad you enjoyed it!
these might be the most "pro" I've seen on youtube. but it certainly does help to have good tools ^^
Thanks! Good tools certainly are nice but these are still very much doable with just a circular saw, drill, and stapler, and by using 1x4 boards for the frame.
great video and helpful tips. Will it work for home theater?
Yup! Should work great at taking care of reverb issues.
How have these panels held up? Would you change any steps now? Thank you for the breakdown. I'm looking to do something similar.
Holding up great! I've moved a few of them around without issue. Don't think I'd change anything if were to make any more 👍
@@42Pursuit yours is the best instructional video out there. Ty again.
I've made these, but I dont wrap the fabric around the sides. I use pine, and leave the sides and bottom and top exposed. That way I'm doing the front and back only, and definitely use a pneumatic staple gun.
That works too 👍 bet those look great!
Pneumatic staple gun is a game changer!
Very well done and informative
Awesome! Thanks for the feedback!
this is exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
Awesome, glad I could help!
I didn't know you needed acoustically transparent fabric or that it existed, and so today when I went shopping for the fabric before watching this video, I've ended up taking one I liked which almost resembles a "straw bag" x_x
Hope I didn't do a huge mistake... x_x
The fabric just needs to not restrict air flow through it, so something like a tight woven denim wouldn't be the best choice, but yours sounds fine 👍🏼
Excellent and thank you for such an informative video. Would you be willing to show us how to build effective bass absorption panels for 110 Hz and below? There's very little info on UA-cam other than Acoustic Fields' amazing panels, which are way beyond most home budgets.
Thanks!
The lower ranges can be a bit tricky to measure which I'm assuming is why there isn't a lot of examples out there of the before/after effects of panels. I'll put it on my list and see if I can come up with something one of these days...
@@42Pursuit Great, thanks!
I've seen the UA-cam channel In the Mix do something similar to this with a slightly different design. This one unfortunately takes a lot more tools, so I would look to the In the Mix video. They also have better insulation suggestions.
Their video is indeed pretty great! But if you paid attention to my video as you watched it, I explained how you don't need any pneumatic tools or a table saw to construct these panels as you can get 1x4 boards off the shelf so all you need to to is hand saw them to length which is pretty quick and easy to do. All you really need is a drill, stapler, hand saw, and a pair of scissors.
Great video! But if I instead use 1x4 pine boards for the frame (no table saw), wouldn’t there be an extra inch where the 3” thick insulation would flop around?
1x4 boards are actually 0.75″ x 3.5″ so there would only be an extra half inch. And with how fluffy the insulation is, I don't think there'd be any flopping around with that little bit of extra depth. Cheers!
Pretty amazed that it seems like all of the "pro" acoustic panels are like $20-30 in materials but hundreds of dollars in cost. I need to make a shop and crank these out....
My thoughts exactly :)
Thanks for watchin!
You _can_ have the cutting done at your big-box hardware store on their panel saw... but I wouldn't recommend it. It will be done by an hourly employee who has little to no interest in your project except that it has interrupted the work he was doing that the manager is already up his butt about getting done. I've have more projects ruined by choosing this short-cut only to get my wood home and discover it was measured wrong, or cut out-of-square, or watched as the employee ran the old-dull saw-blade through my pannel so fast that it ripped out the edge... all resulting in re-planning my cuts or re-squaring the wood and creating more waste off-cuts.
Just borrow a friend's truck and cut it yourself. (Not that my experience has resulted in much higher quality cuts by doing it myself.)
Great design. Even without the test data the sound is remarkably less reverby and even a bit richer. I'll have to -steal- copy that idea myself.
Bold statement to say those panels are just as good as high quality ones without testing the commercial ones - really wish you did and provide numbers with test, cuz now I have to take just your word for it
Bold statements coming from someone named 'spicy diarrhea'. Next time watch the video before you comment. I never said they were just as good. Also the title clearly states 'cheap DIY panels'. If you want to spend a few hundred bucks on pro acoustic panels and send them to me to test and share the information for free, be my guest.
Otherwise, go troll somewhere else.
Your video is awesome. Please suggest some sound testing software before and after acoustic treatment
I'm not sure what the pro level analysis software is but there is an iOS app that can do a reasonable reverb test from the sound impulse of clapping while it's analyzing the room. It's called 'ClapIR Acoustics Measurement Tool'. Give that a shot!
Thank you for this great video, i´m gonna start building from this excellent tutorial. I do have a question, how many inches thick are each rockwool plate?
Thanks! The rockwool is spec'd to fill a space 3" deep. It's compressible so there's a little variance above and below that where it would work alright for sound dampening.
Well done. For monitoring and mixing, you’ve made your room better. For recording acoustic guitar or vocals, I wonder whether movable gobos would be more or less effective than your wall/ceiling ones?
I think that would be likely more effective. Placing them closer would increase the absorption closer to the source and could be a lot more tunable. In my case I just wanted a set and forget solution, so walls and ceiling works for me :)
Weed fabric was a good idea, cotton is expensive
Have you considered putting your monitor speakers on stands and at ear level?
Not really. They're on auralex foam wedges that angle the speakers up so they're pointed toward ear level already.
Thanks. Just I do not like that rock wool thing in my room. I am thinking of making them with the recycled fabric sheets that are used for sound isolation, they should not make me scratch like a crazy like the rock/glass wool does. :)
Totally! Fabric is a great filler material! They even make a shredded denim insulation but I had a hard time finding a source in my area.
Love your video. I have a shop of 120meters and high sealing. Is this salution to get rid of the ecco ?
Definitely. That is a pretty big space so you'll need at least a dozen panels before you start noticing a difference. The more the merrier so I'd shoot for at least 24 of the size I made in the video.
Not really budget anymore when you calculate in all that wood and especially the tools.
The best budget option for broad spectrum absorption is Basotect foam imho. It has the right drag coefficient, you don’t need to assemble anything and because they’re foam they don’t weigh much. You also don’t have the health risks of fiberglass and they’re only about 30€ a piece
The price of wood now as opposed to when the video was made only increases the price $3.15 more per panel. So clearly still a low budget option.
As for the price of the tools, a drill, stapler, hand saw, and scissors don't really add up to much, especially seeing as it's a DIY project. You'd be hard pressed to find a DIY project that didn't require some sort of basic tools.
Basotect may be a good option but it's not easy to source or purchase for many parts of the world.
@@42Pursuit Yeah it’s not widely available unfortunately.
People in America also tend to have tools like tablesaws or at least know friends who have tools.
Here in Germany most people don’t even have more than 3 screwdrivers lol
Great panels! I wonder if the panels help isolating the entire room from my music so that my neighbours won't hear my bass that loud anymore? Or would I need to put roxul isolation in my walls?
It'll help a bit but these panels will mostly help with reverberation. If you want to isolate sound from traveling through walls it'll take a bit more work. Look up 'theater room building' videos, you'll find all kind of resources for what you're wanting to do. I believe the the 'Home RenoVision' channel has some good videos on soundproofing. Check 'em out.
@@42Pursuitwow thank you so much for your reply! Great advice I really appreciate it. Seems like I got a lot of work in front of me😅 you earned yourself a sub!
Grey Face, isolation and treatment are definitely 2 different things. You gta separate them in your mind. Treatment does nothing to isolate. Nothing. Isolation must be built into the structure. Imagine a fish tank full of water- there’s a leak in the tank and water (sound) is dripping out- nothing that goldfish puts on the walls of his or her room is going to stop that leaking. There is of course structural transmission where sound carries through a structure of a shared wall. Panels might have some effect there but so small I don’t think it would even be measurable. Check out Acoustic Insider or Acoustic Fields for extensive information on these topics.
@@pauljohn5584 great insight Paul! Thanks for the in depth information!
Hey man, really impressive from the beginning till the end!
Quick question: our church room is about 1,300sq fr and 10’ height, how many panels and at what distribution rate would you say to our space?
Your suggestion is greatly appreciated. Thanks
That really depends on a lot of factors including room length and width, what material the ceiling, walls, and floor are made out of and how absorptive they are, if there are loudspeakers and where they're placed, what typically occupies the space including things like people and chairs, and how much you want to reduce the reverberations. It'll take some research on your part to know proper placement and how much coverage is needed if you really want to dial it in. If you're looking for a rule of thumb, I've had some luck with 1/2 coverage on the upper half of walls on the opposite side of a room from the speakers. The longest distance reflections are the ones you want to target first to eliminate the largest reverb component.
Congrats on finding a way to make this even more difficult, complex and expensive than normal!
Congrats on your new career as a troll! I hope it works out well for you!
@@42Pursuit Thanks, although it's not a new career. I'm a seasoned veteran at this point. Enjoy moving around those MDF frames!
@@42Pursuit Are you serious? 🤔
You could have more gap if you extend the wall side of the french cleat.
Some corner bass absorbers could tame 200 Hz resonance better. 10:45
Truth! I was mostly aiming for 200+ Hz frequencies on this project so decided to just do wall panels.
Thanks for demonstration, but I think that you forgot to put 4 panels for the corners.. and that's very important for reducing eco..
Corners are more for trapping the lower frequencies. A different design would be better to optimize the corner bass traps.
Wow, he makes a great video!
Thank you very much :)
Great work. Does it sound different to your ears? I would like to know. Also, you are using sound absorption panels. Have your considered building sound diffuser panels?
Definitely sounds better to the ear. Since the floor, walls, and ceiling were all reflective surfaces in my room I elected to go the absorption route. It sounds fine now, but if I had to add any more acoustic improvements I'd probably elect for some diffusers to keep the room from sounding too 'dead'.