Dupré Improvising at St Sulpice, Paris
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 сер 2008
- Marcel Dupré improvising on the gregorian theme Veni Creator Spiritus on his instrument in St Sulpice. He clocked up 37 years as titulaire, though this is nothing compared to his teacher Widor, who managed 63 years in the post, leaving when he was 89! It should be noted however, that Dupré was a mere 75 years old when this recording was made :-)
The chant Veni Creator Spiritus (Come, Holy Spirit Creator) has been attributed to Rabanus Maurus (776-856), it is often used on important occasions, such as a consecration of bishops and ordinations, coronations etc. It is sung to commemorate the feast of Pentecost.
This recording was made by Netherlands radio in 1961, and NCRV radio has a substantial archive available free on the web for those that want to visit, www.orgelconcerten.ncrv.nl. I 'borrowed' this one from their broadcast from St Sulpice, which has three other pieces, of which the sublime Franck fantaisie I will post later.
Dupré's improvisations were extraordinary, but perhaps a little clinical or academic for some, Vierne was heard to say upon hearing him improvise for the first time, 'That sounded composed!' He could improvise double fugues, toccatas and ricercares at the drop of a hat, and more remarkable, he said he found it rather easy! From what I can gather, this recording demonstrates a typical Dupré offering.
There are plenty more rare & interesting recordings to come...
Historic and amazing glimpse into the past of a phenomenal musician.
Dupré 'transcribed' several of his own improvisations, Symphonie Passion op.23 and the Vêpres de la Vierge op.18 are the best known ones. Although Dupre transcribed them from memory some time later, not from recordings.
Rollin Smith transcribed variations on Adeste Fideles, from a private recitel dupre gave in New York in 1929. The moment was saved onto a cut-out roll recording mechanism.
In my opinion, this is one of the most beautiful Improvisations made by the "late" Dupré. But NOBODY can imagine how Dupré could improvise in the 1920-1930 years... R.Falcinelli told me that in those years, at St. Sulpice he was unparalleled as virtuoso-improviser: his Sorties were a "miracle" of virtuosity and musicality. My dream is to hear those improvsations.....
I lived in Paris in the 60's and heard Dupre play this organ words will never express what it was really like,. I also heard Langlais,,Messiaen, Durufle play it was the best time to be in Paris. However my favourite organ is the Isnard in St Maximum St Baume.Pierre Bardon has been there since 1961, you don't get kicked out in France you can die on the bench if you so wish.
You must have also heard Jeanne Demessieux? Those were wonderful days.
Only once for some strange reason which I now regret.
@@ailsarodrigues4389 Time to think about a return visit after this virus.
I return every second or third year and have done so since the 70’s Time is running out now.
here from Cesar Franck. thank you for introducing me to the beautiful world of organ music and for reinvigorating my love of listening. i didn’t expect to sit and listen to every piece you linked, but i did. and i was astounded when i heard how much of an orchestra an organ really is. an entire symphony in one instrument. through you, this deep swelling has truly touched, grasped my soul in a way i cannot describe. it’s entirely new but calls upon so many experiences from my past of piano playing, exemplified in a new light. it’s so wonderful to let yourself get wrapped up in the beauty of something, and I cannot thank you enough for reawakening this idea in me. i found myself playing along with this piece in my head, despite having never heard it before. being utterly carried away by the melody. what a wondrous moment that i will treasure forever - thanks to your introduction. the way i view music itself, an art so dear to me I’m near tears at the thought of it, has been cast with an additionally suddenly new and quite welcome way. from the depths of my heart and my soul, i thank you and this organist who’s revived something i couldn’t quite place my finger on, this thing i lost but have now found. know that, somewhere, you’ve touched someone named Lou who is forever grateful to you from the bottom of his heart.
Dupre was a real organ master. Good that the Dutch radio had taken the effort to record this in 1961.
Anyone capable of improvising something like this was a first rate creative musician. This is sublime.
Just astounding... Maitre Dupre.. I'm glad that such Masters graced the face of this earth to keep the art alive and set such a high standard
The Master!
I wept for joy at the hearing of this inspired improvisation. Such a glorious beginning for this Sabbath Day!
That was just amazing! I play it again and again. How lucky we are that someone recorded this and how sad that there must have been so many other improvisations that were only heard once! Dupre was the ultimate maestro.
Stumbled across this while searching for something else. Amazing that someone had the sagacious forethought to capture this beautiful piece of music so others could appreciate what the human mind is capable of accomplishing.
I am German. Not a lie I have so much respect for the French composers and Organists (although there are some exceptions) I personally prefer the French keyboard technique, and pedal technique. Only a fook would prefer otherwise. It is so flowing, so perfectionised. Every world renowned organist uses it ...sometimes with a little inovation (which is good) as is will develpe even further. Oh God, I love the king of instruments...in any form....!!
Thank you for your insights.
Insuperabile!
Very nice to my ears!
Fantastic! Thank you for sharing this.
Nice work, as usual, JF. Dutch radio, eh? I never cease to be amazed at the difference in broadcastng philosophies between European networks & those we have here in the US. They do Dupré improvs; we do Country & Western, Golden Oldies and Neil Diamond.
Don't forget that he was the assistant organist at Sulpice for 28 years prior to his appointment as permanent organist for 37 years.
Merci beaucaups!! ingreable!!
Wonderful !!!!!
This is a particularly moving recording of Marcel Dupre, a real gem indeed! Thanks for posting again JF, if you find any more, of course please post! But then i'm sure you would....!
Great, Powerfull and Magnificent Cavaille-Coll of St. Sulpice has the most beauty on earth and the best organists!
Its a strange thing, I always feel that Dupre's improvisations are best listened to late at night! They seem to get an added air of depth when its dark out!!
@aamusc Dupre was also quoted saying to his students something to the effect of "3-4 hours of practice a day is sufficient for a virtuoso, but a student needs at least 8 hours per day. When I was a student, I practiced for 12 hours every day. You would be well advised to do the same!"
Superb! Really a master in improvisation.
The Gregorian Chant was in his blood and in his soul!!! A GREAT MASTER OF ORGAN!
Maravilloso...
Absolutely fabulous, sumptuous!!!
Heavenly!
One of the highlights of recorded organ music. The NCRV site is an excellent historical archive of, understandably, predominantly Dutch organs and organists past and present, but with some notable exceptions such as the present clip. An excellent posting.
Where did you this recording a 1961 recording? Its absolutely fantastic! But then again you don't get better than Marcel Dupre', probably one of the best of the classic school of French organ improvisers. What is amazing, is its musical sophistication, yet even a novice with any musical sense can find traces of the original theme everywhere, even as he develops the theme with signature Dupre' thumb prints. But no one can bring music to such a grand and dignified ending on such a grand organ like Marcel.
Today May 30 2017 is the Anniversary of M Marcel Dupré and how fittingly close to Whitsun in a few days' time this interpretation of the great Whitsuntide Hymn.. accende lumen sensibus..infund' amorem cordibus..
米心
muziek met hart en ziel,zo prachtig...
The Cologne organ is one of my favorites, mainly because it's just so overwhelming. Not many recordings of it, though, at least in the pre-digital era. But Winfried Bönig, the current cathedral organist, is attempting to rectify that. His 2 CD's on the Motette label will literally KNOCK YOUR SOCKS OFF. They give a whole new meaning to the term "avalanche of sound."
It's always fascinating me, on what a high level his improvisations are, but they are still so wonderful to listen to.
At 5:44 can be heard the distinct ringing of a bell. (No, it's not overtones from the mixtures!) It sounds to me like a sacristy bell. I surmise that this improvisation was played as the prelude to Mass at St. Sulpice, and continued as the priest and ministers processed to the altar. Perhaps this was played as the prelude to Mass on Pentecost Sunday, which in 1961 fell on May 21. Having heard the organ at St. Sulpice several times in person, I can attest that it is everything it is cracked up to be.
Yes it is.
I have seen three bells in the organ case but I have never seen them listed in any of the organ specs.
I think that fact demonstrates, no matter how talented you are, practice makes perfect.
More astounding is that fact that his pupil Cochereau, said he never practiced improvisation during his time at Notre Dame, but used his service playing as practice!
@lipsbach thanks for the info, never knew about this recording. Don't think its available on CD though...
Ah! I have the EMI 5 CD's set! I must have overlooked it somehow...
Je l'ai tellement entendu pendant ma jeunesse et j'ai même eu la chance de lui parler puisque je travaillais avec Jean Langlais
This is really a wonderfull improvisation. I love this organ more than any other Paris organ.
To say this complexity of improv is "easy" is kind of like Bach's "easy" little Trio Sonatas BWV 525-530 he wrote for his kids as practice pieces, but that today can only be attempted in an organ students final year of study before he's able to play them!!! I shudder to think what these guys call HARD!
Dupre wrote a 2 vol set on how to improvise at the organ. It's not impossible to learn, but no longer subsidized by an institutional respect for organists and their incomes.
Has anyone transcribed this glorious improvisation?
excellent organ musique
I have the 2 CDs you mention, they are somewhat overwhelming :-) Perhaps I'll post one in the future.
I also have both the Dupre improv CD and Cochereau's CD from Cologne, sometime I will put up PC's improv on veni creator, it is incredible!
Oui, je le sais parfaitement... J'ai eu des frequents contacts, en 1997-1998 avec Rolande Falcinelli, qui m'a dit beaucoup de choses sur son Maitre... Mais vous savez que TOUS les élèves sorties de sa Classe sont devenus a leur tour de très grandes artistes. Celà signifie que l'Ecole Dupré était, comme il le disait en 1920, la plus prestigieuse du monde entier.... Et je suis convaincu qu'il était ainsi! Evidemment il était très sevère, avec lui-même et avec ses élèves.
The only recording I know of Dupré playing the G Minor was recorded at the Queen's Hall London in 27th October 1926. There are three CDs on which this appears:
1 - EMI CD5550372 Composers in Person
2- EMI FranceCD5748662 Orgue et organistes Francais du XXé Siecle 5 CD set
3 - TAHRA TAH 337 L'art de Marcel Dupré
The best transfer is from the EMI CDs, but get the 5 CD set, its got original recordings of Vierne, Tournemire, Marshal etc, a truly wonderful CD set! :-)
Top !!
Thank you for the comment :-) I am sure there are hours of wonderful recordings hidden on radio archives around the world, shame we can't get at them! But France did have an embarrasment of riches - Dupre, Cochereau, Marchal, Guillou, Demessieux, Durufle x 2...
So true. I think they still do.
That's the church I sang in 10 years ago-a benefit Christmas concert for The University of Paris. There's a Delacroix painting hidden in a little chapel on the right directly after the entrance. The bathrooms in the back stink really badly though; they need to clean that place more often.
On peut entendre l'encens . . . !
I just listened to Dupre play it, perhaps I'll upload it over the course of the next few days.
Has this piece been transcribed?
@JFSnail Don't forget Stations of the Cross! Those are transcribed improvisations as well.
Aux parisiens il leurs reste l'orgue prestigieux de st supilce qui le 2e en france après notre-dame !
La marque d'un musicien qui comprend véritablement l'âme de l'orgue est celui qui comprend comment travailler avec la résonance de l’espace ... trop d'organistes continuent de jouer à un rythme sans précédent pour la résonance de la salle ... L'écho et le silence évanouis font partie de la performance en tant que fanfare brillante ... Sans le silence, la fanfare devient juste du bruit !
C'est totalement exact , et j'ajouterai pour ma part qu'il faut savoir écouter parler chaque jeux séparément pour connaître leur localisation spatiale et les faire sonner à leur juste valeur ensemble.
Marie-Claire Alain disait : « vous ne jouez pas de l’orgue, vous jouez de l’église ! » … CQFD
Prachtige historische opname.
Marcel Dupre en Aristide Cavaille Coll, het kan niet beter.
Merci bien!
the second fugue around 4:10....'over the river and through the woods'-almost wonder if that was intentional. At times the textures and lines remind me of Durufle.
McNeil Robinson studied improvisation with Marcel Dupre. Dupre never charged him.
Gerre Hancock studied improvisation with Jean Langlais.
Keraulophone - great pity. Memories of Piet Kee on Bach...wonderful series...
Are there any recordings of Dupre playing his mighty Prelude and Fugue in G Minor?
I think he practised 12 hours a day....
I am almost sure I heard a recording of M. D. absolutly wrecking a noble presentation of the Fantasia in g
JF - and the riches continue: Latry, Roth, Lefebvre, Hakim...the Great Tradition will never die...
It seems there is a wonderful new talent rising all the time. Example; Olivier Penin at St. Clotilde.
@advisorC101 effectivement cela n'est qu'une question de sensibilité et non plus de "qualité ", remercions les , simplement , d'avoir existé , permi ,la construction de tels instruments magnifiques qui coûtent trés chers et dont on ne peut que cependant ,regretter
simplement qu'ils ne soient pas à la disposition "intelligente "
de ceux qui les ont payés par leurs impôts .....
All the best French organs have a clock…
@gngeannakakes
I don't think it's a good idea to assert which one of them is better. To compare Tournemire to Dupre is like trying to compare Widor to Vierne. It's a different world by itself.
Catholic?
the very ending isn't Dupre worthy, IMHO. A V7 chord stretched going to a perfectly harmonic I chord. It was as though something took his attention from what he was doing. Up to that point, however, it was amazing, as always.
What an arrogant and ignorant comment. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, however that doesn't mean it should be expressed publicly, unless, that is, you wish to show your lack of musical understanding.
Opinions are to be expressed, certainly on the internet. If you don't like someone's opinion, you should tell them, for certain, but you shouldn't become angry because they have a different opinion than you.
You know, just because Dupre had an incredibly advanced harmonic language does not mean he was "above" playing a traditional V7-I cadence. The ending to this is perfectly satisfying as is.
That's all stuff about you.What about Dupre? Why should anyone here care about your experiences, and how do they add to the performance presented here? See the way the mind thinks it's important?
Dupre was the genius and master, although Thierry Escaich comes very close to his level!
looks like your mind is stuck in that French latrine!
If you compare with Messiaen improvising, Messiaen is more arresting.
Boo-hoo. You hurt my feelings.
No, Tournemire was better.
Indeed!
No one with any sense for sure. Obvious where you are coming from.
In my opinion, I think Dupre was very much an over-rated organist. Sure, some of his compositions and recordings are great but really, some are very, very ordinary. So gathering from this, I think a lot of his fame and recognition is due to who he knew, rather than what he knew i terms of musical knowledge. However, in saying this, his students are/were incredible thus prooving that no-matter what, he was serverely influential in the Parisian and international organ world.
Personally, I couldn't disagree more.
Dupre was never an enthusiastic recording artist: he only began to take recording seriously in the last 12 years of his life, when his technique was declining. There are no recordings which truly reflect his best playing.
As a composer he felt underrated in his lifetime, and in my opinion he still is underrated: organist play a few of his more overtly virtuosic pieces, but mostly ignore his very subtle later pieces - a choice which says more about their taste than his achievements.
Because my mommy loves me. Duh. Who gives a shit?
Heavenly!
yes San one cannot be so heaven.. I am the nephew of Mr BERNARD PICHÉ WHOSE MASTER WAS MONSIEUR DUPRÉ..SUCH A DIVINE MUSIC MICHEL..