The only thing you never speak on is Professions, granted not a huge impact on end game meta, but still would have been nice to mention the benefit to having specific profession combos, i.e. Skinning/LW for farming early Fire Resistance gear for Ony/MC/BWL or Mining/Engineering for additional DPS consumables in raids along with scopes for your range weapons, etc.
Once and awhile you come across those youtube channels that don't have the viewerbase they should have, and deliver amazing content for their audience. This channel is one of those "diamond in the rough" channels. Keep it up man
@@Niaxe111 Well the best comparison to Kargoz is probably Tipsout. They both are relatively new to content creation (last 1-2 years) and Kargoz is self made. Tips makes videos for clicks and money, he gets carried on the ClassicCast, he *brings on* these huge wow content creators for more views, he copies content from other content creators-very blatantly might I add. I could go on, but Kargoz is the best youtube in everyway, so what is "new."
As a serious hunter, I have been unbelievably disappointed by all hunter guides. This is the first hunter guide I felt like a new hunter should watch/read.
Full vs Clipped rotation: Someone parsed this out with a variety of weapons, and the conclusion was fairly simple. 2.7 base Weapon Speed and below: Full 2.8-3.1 base Weapon Speed: Clipped 3.2 base Weapon Speed and above: Full This is universal across all ranged weapons, in case the weapon you're using isn't among the 4 Kargoz listed out.
I love how the quality of WoW content is such a cool Grass Roots UA-cam movement. Just a lot of passion and hard-working people who keep raising the bar for one another. It feels kind of like the UA-cam from 10+ years ago. From you Kargoz, to Defcamp and Melderon, the Classicast and Countdown to Classic crew. Can't wait for someone to make a web documentary about all this when it's said and done. Cheers guys, the community is thankful
Hey mate! I've sat down and watched the whole thing. This is a world-class guide, I'll tell ya what. :) Apologies again that we never got to talk at length about some more of this stuff. You produced such an in-depth guide so quickly and efficiently. It's truly admirable! For other hunters reading the comments, I'll, uhh, leave some more commentary here. As Kargoz said at the end of the vid, let's improve the guide by contributing in the comments! However, I should preface what I'm saying with this disclaimer: My experience is on the private servers: Nostalrius, Kronos, Elysium, Light's Hope... anything could change in official Classic! Hopefully what I know about this or that is relevant to what's coming. ---------- 08:02 - Regarding Multi-Shot, it seems to function with chaining logic. Three projectiles are fired at once, but the secondary target struck will be closest to the primary, and the tertiary target will be whatever's closest to the secondary that isn't also the primary target. With this in mind, say you have three mobs like this: *1 2 3* Aim at 1 or 3, not 2! If you fire at 2, it will chain to 1 or 3 and not across to the other because while 1 or 3 are close enough to 2 for a secondary target to be struck, the tertiary is too far. Aim at 1 or 3, and it'll chain across 2 to the opposite side. Kinda weird, but that's how it works. If you're really good with this sort of thing, you can use Multi-Shot around a sheep and not hit the sheep if you aim it right. At the very least, this should come in useful when your tanks need to spread targets out. ---------- 11:03 - The debuff slots are indeed the biggest issue when it comes to using Serpent Sting. However, if you have the mana to blow and a fight allows for it, fire one off! No harm done on, say, twin Emps when you've got the DPS split. No physical debuffs on the caster, no magic debuffs on the melee. Less debuffs in play, so the Serpent Sting may fly in a case like that. Chat strats with your hunter core! Your team may be able to come up with some neat hunter-only DPS-pushing strats, such as the above idea. Maybe it doesn't work out, but part of the fun in raids is experimenting. See what you can get away with. Here's another example of a hunter-only strat: On Thaddius, you may need to pass through the boss and you'll need to be in minimum range for your ranged rotation. Your melee must be at max range for you to benefit from their buffs, and vice versa. My hunter core forced the melee to stand at max range if they wanted full damage buffs, which fixed the issue of slacking / resistant melee, but there was still the issue of where minimum range was, exactly. So, we began dropping flares on the exact spots we had to stand to be at minimum range as a visual cue. This turned out to save some seconds over the course of the fight. It's the little things... ---------- 13:00 - Regarding Auto Shot first, those casters get to precast their spells at the start of a fight. If you're already in combat, that Auto Shot first is important 'cause you can cast that Aimed Shot while it's on CD, but if your casters are pre-casting, might as well pre-cast Aimed Shot, yourself so it lands as the fight starts. Also, I'm not sure I would recommend burst CDs at the very beginning all the time. If you know you'll only have exactly that long where your burst will come up a second time only if you pop it at the very start, that's absolutely recommended! However, the burst rotation can be really high on threat, and if you have your TrinketMenu set to swap as soon as you're out of combat but you need to FD, it's gonna do that in the middle of your rotation. Really inconvenient. As long as you're synced up with the hunter squad, and don't miss the chance to pop burst a second time, any time's good. :D And then you get the chance to let the tank get some threat, do some minor DPS, maybe try for Quick Shots, and then FD before going into hard burst + sync.
(comment too long, continuing here) 19:06 - Badge of the Swarmguard is something the melee will definitely want too. To placate the melee class leads, I struck 'em a deal. They get Naxx trinkets, hunters get dibs on AQ. BotS is AMAZING in combination with Jom Gabbar. Earthstrike / Slayer's Crest are cool too, but JG works very well with our burst rotation. On Light's Hope, Juju Flurry and Kiss of the Spider increase Auto Shot attack speed, but doesn't reduce Aimed Shot cast time. Rapid Fire and Quick Shots improve Auto Shot and Aimed Shot. Thus, I figured it was best to leave KotS to the melee and stick with default haste CDs and other trinkets. Sync is great before BotS, but afterwards you'll get an itchy trigger finger every time your raid needs to stop for some reason. It's too fun to stop shooting stuff! Renataki's is an interesting trinket too, but my experience is with JG, so I'll go over that. I've never actually run the numbers, but this is how I've always done it: BotS starts the burst rotation. You've got ten seconds until Rapid Fire + Jom Gabbar / Earthstrike / Devilsaur Eye, so I like to Auto Multi Auto Aimed. At 20 seconds left on BotS, that's when I pop my secondaries because by then I've got several stacks of BotS. You'll have time for another Auto Multi Auto Aimed here, and then I swap it around as Rapid Fire ends - I cast Aimed Shot after the last Auto I can get out before Rapid Fire ends to take advantage of the reduced cast time, then finish the combo with an Auto Multi Auto at the peak of Jom Gabbar and at the end of BotS. Then it's into the normal rotation, nothing jacked up, as Kargoz put it later on. Two things: If you have two pieces of T3, Rapid Fire at 24 secs left on BotS. I guess you could pop it at 20 again if you really want the extra haste on your second-to-last Auto's CD, so you get the very last one in the rotation, but it hasn't been a problem for me. Uhh... maybe Aimed is popped off a little less than the _very_ end of Rapid Fire. Sorry, it's been a while. It's somewhere around there though. As long as your last Auto flies while you have the buffs, it should benefit from them even if it hits the boss some time after your buffs are dropped. Second thing, the Rapid Fires are synced up. The T2 hunter should pop his RF when you do yours so you get that +450 AP during the peak of your burst. +1100 RAP with JG at its peak, pretty fun. If he pops it when your BotS starts up, you won't capitalize as much on the max uptime. If you're looking for more info on the "burst sync" technique, it's mentioned at 48:41 under the T2 section. The gist of it is that whoever's wearing T2 syncs his Rapid Fire with the burst of your other hunters, helping max your uptime on Expose Weakness and boost the benefit you'll all receive while you'll do the most damage. Side note, I mentioned Warmonger in the T1 section. I'm not sure when Warmonger comes out, so maybe it won't even be available to pick up earlier on in vanilla. If that's the case and I'm mistaken, you'll need some other pieces to keep hit cap for when you really need it - like for tranqs. I say that because some hunters like to roll with a little less than 9% hit, kinda gambling, but keep extra hit pieces on them so they can fulfill their guild's tranqing needs. Another similar technique Timecop and I talked about during the Countdown to Classic podcast, another DPS-pushing one, was the melee weaving idea. When you get into that "flex zone" in the ranged rotation, go into melee and smack the boss with a Raptor Strike. I doubt this will work well for some fights where your targets have inconveniently large hitboxes, you're deadzoned too long and all, but hey! It sounds like a good idea. Your Auto Shot and auto attack don't share CD, so this can be abused. One other thing to note about melee weaving is that two-handers tend to amount to more AP while dual-wielding tends to amount to more crit. The latter is commonly regarded as ideal. I suppose it'll be up to further experimentation to confirm if using a 2h is worth it as long as you're melee weaving with it. ---------- 25:06 - Something of note about hunter multi-target damage is that it's all limited. Volley, 1 minute CD. Engi, 1 min CD on bombs, 5 mins on Sappers. Multi-Shot, 3 targets max. Traps, cooldown, you get it. This is where another idea came into play: The Ravager. Hypothetically, you could proc Bladestorm with the axe, the Ravager, while all your other stuff is on CD. If you get lucky, it should be a DPS boost. However, whereas it's glitched for sure on Kronos and you can do other stuff (pop bombs, multi, etc) during Bladestorm, that shouldn't be the case on official classic. It's not the case on Light's Hope. It doesn't have too many practical applications in raids. I've used it to excellent effect on the spider trash before spider boss in ZG, I've used it on 2- or 3-pack pulls on the small Core Hounds before Magmadar. Other than that, I haven't found it to be useful in raids. ...However, it's awesome in five-mans or if you're running a lowbie friend through something! Gather those low-level elites up with your pet, spam rank 1 Wing Clip on something, Bladestorm it all to death. Aside from being fun, this is relevant to earning clout with your guild, like if you want to run a guildie's alt through Deadmines or Wailing Caverns, so consider picking one of these up. You may be pleasantly surprised! ---------- 28:07 - I regard kiting and stutter stepping as two different techniques. Kiting is simply running around while keeping something behind you while stutter stepping refers to moving while Auto Shot is on CD and stopping to shoot when it's off CD. I say that for the sake of clarification as I continue on: Depending on how long it'll take to kill something, the rotation may differ. Stutter stepping for PvE in the open world will probably be used mostly at level 1-10, and during that time you'll have Arcane Shot, Serpent Sting, and Concussive Shot. It's a little funny, but I like to Mark > Auto > Arcane > Auto > Serpent > Auto > Concussive > Auto > Arcane > Auto > Raptor, or the same thing except with Serpent and Concussive reversed. That SHOULD be enough to kill most targets at 1-10, but if not, you can continue to avoid melee. The reason I like to Arcane first is because I've found you can have it come off CD sooner, more likely before the mob reaches you, and I consider Serpent Sting to be most beneficial when it's used to help you ignore mobs or complement your melee damage. Essentially, cram as many Arcane Shots as possible into your rotation, Serpent Sting is an afterthought. You can ignore a mob that'll tick to death, and Serpent ticks with Raptors will make finishing a target in melee more easily. And, once you get Wing Clip, this rotation becomes irrelevant since you can easily get away. This is where I differ between kiting and stutter stepping. When you stutter step to get those Autos in, your goal is to kill something. To kite something, you simply need it to follow. In that case, you may only need your handy-dandy rank 1 Arcane Shot. Maybe. I mean, if you're kiting one of those big drakonids in BWL, Distracting Shot is gonna be the most useful. You can damage it too with Immolation Trap / Serpent Sting / Arcane Shot to test its vulnerabilities, that's useful, but you know what I mean - it's gotta do with what you're trying to do with the mob you're interacting with. Y'know? After all, we may be assigned at times to a utility role. While the prospect of damage is appealing, we must be focused on our ultimate goals to be the most productive, to contribute the most to the raid. If you're a new hunter, don't split your priorities too hard until you know what you're doing! Then, by all means, have fun. :) ---------- 34:14 - I feel the need to emphasize for those poor melee DPS that Drake Fang Talisman is effectively only an 8 AP upgrade over Royal Seal. For melee, that thing's BiS until Naxx, IIRC, maybe even through Naxx. Idk melee, really, I like hunters, but all I know is it's REALLY good for melee. People hated me for having one of these, so I can't recommend picking one up unless literally no melee in the raid need it at all. Otherwise, you might have trouble bargaining with them for the burst trinkets you want. So, uhh, you'll need to keep hit cap without DFT. It's much easier for hunters than it is for melee. Likewise... the melee in my guild were very fond of Unnatural Forces, Stormrage's, and Kingsfall in Naxx. Slayer's Crest, too. So, uhh, y'all can expect some competition there. One of the great things about hunters is we really don't need to deal with MUCH competition, but there is some. I strongly recommend staying in your melee DPS' good graces so you or your class leader can get some concessions on stuff the hunter core wants.
(comment too long, continuing here) 43:19 - Yep. Furious Howl has poor calculation, I've found, and needs to be micro'd well too. In summary, it's a burst ability that allows it to compete with cats and wind serpents without a focus dump of its own... but, because it's tricky to optimize and may not even come into play on certain fights, I have to recommend a cat or wind serpent once Lupos is nerfed. My hunter core preferred wind serpents. ---------- 44:34 - About cats and wind serpents, there is one other edge they have over wolves - because they have a focus dump, they benefit much more from buffs and debuffs! Cats as physical damage benefit majorly from Sunder Armor, Blessing of Might, you know. They benefit the most of the trinity. Wind serpents are better later in the game not only because of the R6 LB coming out with ZG, but also because your tank's probably gonna have Thunderfury by then, you'll probably have Nightfall up too, and the debuffs applied by those weapons benefit Lightning Breath. Still, cats compete with wind serpents. ---------- 48:41 - Ayy lmao. A lot of the stuff I'm rambling about here is mentioned at this time, too. Figure I should mention that. ---------- 55:39 - One essential consumable I always brought to raids - and I'm not being funny here - are snowballs. The other classes may laugh at you for wanting buffs on your pet, they may deny you buffs outright just to be jerks, so here's what ya do: You fill your bags with snowballs, you bring 'em to raid, and every time that priest is trying to drink but your pet doesn't have Power Word: Fortitude, you snowball that priest. You snowball the hell out of 'em until they buff the damn pet. Don't worry about pissing the healers off. You don't compete with them, it's hard to die as a hunter, and if you're Horde, shamans' Chain Heals I'm told bounce to your pet anyway, so it doesn't matter. XD You'll want Mark of the Wild, Power Word: Fortitude, uhh... Blessing of Might and Kings on your pet. That's all an Alliance hunter would need the healers for. You should also bring Scroll of Agility IV and Scroll of Strength IV for your pet since you can't exactly make it drink an elixir. Gotta min-max that pet damage, ya know? If I'm not mistaken, Juju Might is glitched on Light's Hope. It's not meant to buff ranged attack power, but it does. If that's the case, it'll be a consumable for your pet along with Juju Power. That's just what I've been told; maybe Blizzard will allow it to buff RAP too. I'm so glad you mentioned Lily Roots too! I totally recommend picking up a Lei of Lilies as soon as possible in vanilla. You don't need to keep it on, but using it on CD before and during your raid nights will pay off. You won't need to use as many Night Dragon's Breath, maybe you can save on mana potions or whatever as well. Very, very useful. ---------- 57:09 - I have to emphasize as well that my guide for DM T applies strictly to Kronos, while my Mara guide was figured out according to Light's Hope. If you're looking to farm DM T on retail classic, know that Blizzard has given the king Summon Player, which makes kiting kinda not possible. However, if you bring a wind serpent and use Eyes of the Beast + Lightning Breath against the king, Summon Player shouldn't be a problem because it's your pet, not you. There are other methods to kill him even accounting for Summon Player, but they may be related to other issues unique to Light's Hope. So... the wind serpent EotB strat is most likely the safest bet. That said, a BM spec will still be useful for DM T farming considering and using this method. And like Kargoz specified, it's a paradise for hunter pre-raid BiS. You can solo farm a lot of your pre-raid BiS with some DM T. I don't really enjoy DM T outside of Kronos, I stick with Mara for casual farming, but it's totally worth it if you can get that pre-raid BiS. Pick up a swaggerific Treant's Bane, get yourself (or your guild) a Foror's, it's great. About Mara, there shouldn't be too much different. Maybe the Princess is immune to nature damage, so you'll want to bring a carrion bird or whatever to tank her instead. Maybe the Ghost Mushrooms are in slightly different locations. I think the biggest problem with Mara farming in retail classic that'll differ from my guide is actually resetting the instance and going back in. So, uhh... if you can't reset and /camp out like you can on Light's Hope, maybe drowning yourself and running back in purple won't be too bad. The Ghost Mushrooms can add a lot to the farm! They tend to be quite valuable, especially nearer the end of vanilla when you can expect warlocks to use Shadow Power Elixirs more commonly, and simply having an asset that changes value with the market is convenient if the flow goes up. So... I recommend the purple route + inner for maxing the Mara farm. I've enjoyed that route the most, I like it the best. I'm also ex-Cartel, skinner and bouncer. Getting into the Devilsaur Cartel is a great way to get yourself some swanky diggs and some moolah while you're at it, but that does seem to involve some politics. You know, you'll want to stay in the good graces of the crafters and the rest of the Cartel. Come out there when they need you so they'll come out for your sake if you get into a scuffle over the beasts. And then there's profit splitting, but if you guys control the market very well, you can sell those pieces for as much as you want and folks will need to buy 'em. If you aren't interested in joining the Cartel, take care while you're out there and see about securing the leather you need as early as possible... before the prices skyrocket. ---------- Kargoz, thanks again so much for reaching out to me while making this guide! It warms my heart that there are such passionate content creators out there, and it brings me joy that such content will go on to help more hunters come official classic. This video is greatly inspiring. Just as well, I'm truly grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this, myself. Thank you! I also hope to meet the other hunters you consulted for this guide, someday. They sound very knowledgeable and passionate. To any other hunters out there reading this... hello! I'm Raziya. If you'd like to chat hunter stuff, hit me up in the comments of any of my vids. Provided YT gives me a notification in the first place, I'll try and respond at my earliest convenience. :D
It was sincerely my honor, privilege, and pleasure. If you ever need something from me again, you're more than welcome to hit me up any time. :) Edit: Hmm, two of my replies aren't showing up unless I'm logged in. Thanks, UA-cam. Does this all the time. lol
We need a discussion on hunter bis moving forward from dungeons and 10 man content. Moving into Molten core, BWL, ZG and the dragons of nightmare. The hunter is faced with a series of options for reaching the 9% hit cap. ''Stating that Drake Fang Talisman is bis trinket is not helpful information, it is obvious information'' - Novat 19/20 hunters raiding BWL will NOT be in a position to pick up the Drake Fang Talisman from warriors and Rogues. It would not only be unwise for the guild to assign the item to the hunter, it would be unwise for the hunter to accept the item if offered. The item is better placed on a warrior or a rogue for the purpose of boosting the overall damage output of the raid. Only if the hunter is exceedingly exceptional and reliable, and all the reliable warriors and rogues have received their trinket, should the hunter be considered for the trinket. The same can be said for Band of Accuria and the quick strike ring. Further more, the +7 damage scope has an AP value depending on the speed of the weapon. It's a bit complicated, since the damage bonus is added as a flat value to aimed shot and multi shot which are tied down to the nature of clipping them in between auto shots. While the added auto shot value is affected by the added attack speed bonus of the quiver. I.e the converted AP bonus of +7 damage is different for auto and for multi + aimed. Base AP value of +7 damage scope. Actual AP value will be greater depending on which quiver you equip. pre-bis 3.3 speed = 29.7 MC 2.9 speed = 33.79 BWL 3.4 speed = 28.82 Naxx 3.2 speed = 30.625 Obviously the +3% hit scope will ALWAYS be superior to the +7 damage hit scope. However, this is only true in a vacuum assuming no other pieces of gear. If you assume that different items are available, the math becomes convoluted and there exist scenarios where using the damage scope is the superior option. This is especially true after ZG, when bonus hit becomes very easy to come by for hunters. Note: The spawn of Hakkar serpent in Sunken Temple is immune to fear, including the fear cast by the goblin boss in Maraudon and the fear cast by the Devilsaur.
The guide gives the impression that moving between 4 ranged weapons is the only path of progression. This is true, in the context of best in slot. However, Larvae of the great worm from AQ40 and Soulstring deserves mention. Larvae of the great worm: Gun acquired from the great worm (duh) Ouro in AQ40. With a speed of 3.0, and being a gun. It's a fantastic alternative for Dwarf hunters, should the crossbow prove particularly elusive. If your guild is Alliance and loot council. You may consider reserving the Crossbow for the night elves, with the understanding that the gun is just as good and the net benefit to the guild as a whole will be greater. Soulstring: Bow acquired from the Four Horsemen in Naxxramas. With a weapon speed of 2.9 and being a bow. It's very good for Troll hunters. It may be faster than the crossbow by half a second, but it's significantly higher item level means that it's 15dps lead results in 43 damage bonus over the crossbow. Same as above. Reserve the crossbow for the orc hunters, and let the trolls use the MC bow until a crossbow becomes available or use it until Soulstring drops in Naxxramas. Though this is less likely than Alliance Dwarves having to resort to a gun in AQ40. In addition to killing Ouro way earlier than 4 horsemen in comparison to Chromaggus. Alliance guilds tend to bring more hunters than horde.
There’s a 2% hit gloves out of LBRS quest line that might be a good alternative for people not having luck with hit capping or can’t afford Devilsaur right away. Look for Voones Vice Grips.
Very professional guide. Your displaying improves so much with any further guide you are making. what i like the most is the RP style touch you are weaving in. great work brother.
Really nice in-depth guide. There is one important point you seem to neglect though: Melee swings & weapons, especially as horde hunter - key word windfury totem. You mentioned weaving in raptor strike, feign death, trinket swapping, etc. but you didn't put emphasis on getting in melee hits with a big 2h in your rotation. In my opinion that's most likely the no°1 source of damage increase hunters can achieve by optimizing gameplay. You stick to minimum shooting range and get in wing clip+raptorstrike (+on hit procs) between autoshots if Aimed Shot & Multi Shot are on cooldown.
Especially so when Savage Strikes is specced into. Also something to consider is if you’re going to Raptor Strike weave, a wolf pet might make more sense over cat. If you’re in a melee group you can have your wolf on the boss and still get the Howl buff.
Liroy Schmidt Yes you are correct. I mention wolf in relation to being assigned a full melee group. TSA + Howl is great, and if you’re positioned closer to weave in melee; you and your group will get the buff, vs just having the wolf beside you and Howling before an Aimed Shot for example. 👍
Oh...my...GAWD dude. This is amazeballs. I would ask if you plan on doing this for the other classes, but with the amount of work this OBVIOUSLY took, I couldn't in good conscience expect that from you. I'll just enjoy the hell out of this damn thing.
You get a big like from me. Not only do I remember the torture of farming pre raid Hunter gear. I just realised how many Tribute runs I'll be doing. Also easy money selling Princess runs as a BM hunter. Can someone remind me to quit my job when classic drops. Thanks for this mate. This, was, amazing!
I've never seen a content creator go into such detail or depth in any Classic topic before - this is completely a different level that you've taken this to. To say the least I think this sets a new bar in Classic WoW Guides. Well done!
While i can see that you've put in much work, you forgot to implement the most important calculations of all, Spelldamage buffs and curse of shadows vs armor amount. Secondly you fail to realize that Improved Aspect of the hawk has NO ppm, and thus more autoshots means a higher uptime. Aimed shot converts one autoshot into an aimedshot, and negates at least one autoshot and clipping at least one more. What this means if your useing the slowest weapon in game, with aimed shot, you lose 1% autoshoot dps due to the speed with the clipping, on that shot and loose 2 autoshoots every 9 seconds. Since improved aspect of the hawk has no PPM, the formula to calculate your autoshot dps, is (1-(19/20)^2*100)% for a 9.75% uptime of Improved aspect of the hawk with aimed shot, while it is (1-(19/20)^4*100)% for a 18.55% uptime with arcane shot For easy calculation, this means if your autoshoot dps is 100, your dps with aimed shot is (100-9.75)+(9.75*1.30) for an average dps of 102.93 while its (100-18.55)+(18.55*1.3) for an average dps of 105.65. for arcane shot. The more shots you fire dureing the 9 seconds, the higher the uptime will be, and the more drastic the difference will be towards the autoshoot damage with a faster weapon. Now For your calculations, you seem to have calculated 0 armor, and 0 resistance in any comparison. Up to and includeing BWL armor value of a raid boss is 4691 armor, With sunder armor and feariefire, this is reduced to 1936 armor, wich translates into 24.75% damage reduction. 600 damage with that damage reduction over 9 seconds results into (600*((100-24.75)/100))/9 = 50.16 dps. Arcaneshot has a 40.83% spell coefficiency, with Flask of supreme power, brilliant wizard oil and Greater arcane elixer you gain (150+45+36)/100*40.83 = 94 damage per arcane shot. With talents you can reduce the cooldown to 5 seconds, and with Curse of shadows, you gain an additional 10% damage to arcane damage. Raidbosses have 145 resistance to Arcane, -75 from Curse of shadows, = 70 resistance, wich results in a 17.5% average dps loss due to resistance. so its total dps is ((183+94)*1.1*((100-17.5)/100))/5 = 50.28 dps. Suddenly the "arbitrary 183 arcane damage vs the 600 aimed shot damage doesn't seem so arbitrary anymore! Aimed shot 50.16 dps Arcane shot 50.28 dps Both doing almost exactly 50.2 dps. With a baseline 100 dps, at 3 second shot timer, aimed shot is 102.93+50.16 dps (153.09 dps) vs arcane shot 105.65+50.27 dps (155.92 dps) Now keep in mind in this example the base line dps is only 100, if your baseline is higher, (wich every hunter at 60 should have) the IAOH difference is going to be higher. Ontop of these after BWL the armor value of raid bosses is increased to 6650, or after debuffs to 39.83% damage reduction due to armor, while the resistance values remain the same. This results in even more comparative dps loss. PS Sniper scope is a flat out +7 damage per shot, Faster shots result in more dps by that scope as well. After all this i urge you to doublecheck the calculations, then remind yourself how increadibly delicate the seemingly "unbalanced" vanilla world of warcraft is, and be open for different approaches. As refrence, I'm going with this build for my hunter classicdb.ch/?talent#cxZVEqhthtI0z I use Aimedshot primarily as an opener, or in bwl, when i have the burning adrenaline debuff from Vaelastraz. Disclaimer: to make ARCANE SHOT outperform AIMED SHOT PRE AQ40 you need to spend more on consumables.
Your comment inspired me to try spell power when classic arrives. I have a few questions regarding the arcane shot specc,if you dont mind: would you say theres a sweet spot for weapon speed, or is faster always better to get the most out of iaoth (when the dps of the weapon is the same)? Do you think the +5 gun/bow skills become more beneficial with this spec because alot of the guns/bows have higher weapon speed than their crossbow counterparts and are probably BiS for this spec? I'm considering rolling dwarf just to get the most out of this specc What's generally more important: the dps of a weapon or its speed? Or is it far more complicated than this?
@@legendofJupp I'll answer them to the best of my abilities: would you say theres a sweet spot for weapon speed, or is faster always better to get the most out of iaoth (when the dps of the weapon is the same)? On paper faster is always better, but its a lot more complicated then that. Faster means the percentage damage of IMOH is bigger, but if your base damage is to low, the increase of that doesn't always out scale a slower more damaging weapon. For the ease of use, i've found out that prebis, Hurricane is by far the best weapon, but once you start getting raid equivalent upgrades, the raid equivalent upgrades follow each other in unison, outperforming the previous just slightly overall. This might be modified if your acquiring of the weapon is later then the rest of your gear, and this does not include the weapons from ZG and AQ20 Do you think the +5 gun/bow skills become more beneficial with this spec because alot of the guns/bows have higher weapon speed than their crossbow counterparts and are probably BiS for this spec? I'm considering rolling dwarf just to get the most out of this specc: The 5 gun / bow skills are quite important, because in vanilla defense skill surplus, gives you armor penetration. 5 skill equals to roughly 2.5% armor penetration, which makes physical damage hurt more. While there guns will temporarily surpass the bow/crossbow options available at that time, however, they don't out scale Soulstring as the bis weapon. Toxic Injector (grobullus) however is one of the best options only nerubian slavemaker (0.5 dps more dropped from kelthuzad) and Soulstring (3.6 dps more dropped from 4 hoursemen) are better. (these dps differences are after applying the scope arrows and aspect) What's generally more important: the dps of a weapon or its speed? Or is it far more complicated than this? It is far more complicated, your attackpower, crit chance, scope, and base total dps all depend if the endresult outscales it. therefore i recommend useing this list as a calculation help. The first colum is the weapon speed, the second one is the average dps increase based on ppm of Improved aspect of the hawk, and the 3rd colum is the dps increase by the scope alone. To get an accurate calculation, you add your weapon damage + your scope damage + your arrow damage + your damage from attack power together, then multiply it by the aspect ratio and see if its a bigger upgrade speed Aspect Scope 3.4 5.7 2.42 3.2 6.0 2.57 3.0 6.3 2.74 2.9 6.45 2.84 2.8 6.6 2.94 2.7 6.6 3.05 2.6 6.6 3.17 2.5 7.2 3.30 2.4 7.8 3.43 2.3 8.1 3.59 2.2 8.4 3.74 2.0 9.0 4.11 1.8 9.9 4.57 1.6 10.8 5.14
Extremely thorough, detailed, and informative. You seem very rushed and go over a lot of information very quickly. I have to put all my focus into this video to keep up. I’m not sure if slowing you down will help. I’m going to rewatch at half speed and see if that helps me.
Your passion for the class and vanilla overall is a wonderful thing to behold my friend. I don’t have time to play anymore but frequently come back to your vanilla content to still feel apart of the game.
I have been looking for a guide like this for 3 months, can't believe I'm seeing this until now. Insanely in-depht, to the point, no bullshit guide. You truly deserve all the praise you can get. Great work!
Are you eating while making this video or something? You keep doing these big swallows like you're trying to get through a sandwich. Pretty damn good video nonetheless.
So im coming back for classic. A lot of these streamers are cranking out fluff content like theres no tomorrow. You stuff has heart and soul. Love your stuff.
This is unbelievable. I've watched many guides for many games but this is on another level, this is the type of guide you want when you start looking for one but always settle for half hearted brief overviews. Top notch, well done.
Awesome guide and on point without any misinformation, bravo! Loved that you mentioned the Raptor Strike/Sapper for the flex spot, as it is something that gets overlooked quite often. Little sad that you did not went into too much detail with it, but as it is a super tryhard method to increase DPS, I see how a starter guide might not be the right place to approach that. However, with the right positioning (as close as possible to boss to shoot ranged attacks) and the right gear setup (slow x-bow + slow 2h melee) you can actually pull off running into melee to Raptor Strike + R1 Wing Clip and getting back into ranged position before your autoshot resets (thus not clipping any and getting free extra damage from the melee). This is much easier to pull off once ZG arrives with the 20% runspeed potion but buffs DPS by a fair amount on Alliance side and a quite noticable amount on Horde due to Windfury. Maybe it is worth to mention for those few dyhard tryhards :)
@@odiw2509 you will do this for a couple of weeks and be fed up with it... its a really nice dps increase but tedious as fuck... why play hunter if you arent gonna be autoshooting reading a book :P
@@oxXBubbleXxo lmfao that's a hilarious joke as I am now currently the 2nd highest parsing hunter on my server that has mastered weaving and weave every boss. The only hunter above me is in a turbo-nerd guild that kills bosses half as quick as my guild. The timing of your comment couldn't be worse but nice throw back rofl.
I usually never comment, but this...awesome work. Used to play Hunter in Vanilla, first ever character...This is the best video I came across in a long time. Keep up the good work!
Hi! Nice guide, but I have some criticism to offer: someone was rushing you at the end to finish within an hour or what? It is useless for a viewer if you just rush through the slides and skip through them. "I don't wanna take your time" - if I made the time already to watch your video, I want to watch the content. I, as a viewer, can skip any time if some of the content is too much for me or it's boring. Especially when you put the timestamps. But you just reading the headlines and saying "read the presentation" is absolutely useless for me and I am still spending time on it, because I expect content. I really wouldn't mind you going through all of it. Really, what made you rush so much at the end? Otherwise, it would be awesome comprehensive guide.
@@chuckchuckerson5364 i wouldnt laugh at it. its a good rotation depending on the fight. i did top the DPS many times as a hunter. i consider the weak PVE dps to be rubbish. when it comes to mages and warlocks they can be far more ineffective as dps due to that they spend mana to fast and have to Wand.
@@chuckchuckerson5364 it is possible to manage the DPS without having to resort to drinking to restore mana as a hunter. Beastmaster set 6 piece has Normal ranged attacks 4% chance of restoring 200 mana. that is insane for classic hunters.
@@mercurio822 Oh I totally agree. I did very good damage in raids doing this too. I was just laughing because the video goes into very complicated ways to maximize DPS potential, and really the basic "Burn mana, FD, drink, repeat" was good enough. I definitely never went as deep as this video goes, and raided everything besides naxx in vanilla. Great resource though, perhaps I will try some of it.
@@chuckchuckerson5364 i did 6 bosses in naxx. but TBC was only a few months away and all of the guild didnt feel like naxx was worth the effort needed. i did clear everything ells and had my full T2. didnt need anything ells and naxx gears was riddiculus OP. good thing it only had 3 months ingame before it became useless.
Shame that hunters were crap back in the days... and iam saying this as old hunter who cleared all content except Kel'Thuzad (not enough time till TBC poped out). I would roll warrior / rogue or mage now for sure...
Shaman next, Especially for the unconventional shamans! No this is not a troll request! I do plan to shaman tank in classic, no not in raids, but possible off or add tank in raids.
right off the bat i heard devilsaur mafia.. i can garuntee the pvp diehards are going to farm these so called mafia people for honor in between q times. and will most likely end up as paid mercs. sorry "top tier parsers"
Do you plan to be making more videos like this, or just for hunter? You mentioned that it took a really long time to make, and 200 hours for each class seems intense. lol
Have to ask, why is the 2 handed boe sword "Warmonger" never listed for pre raid bis? 3% hit on a 2 hander as a boe sounds amazing all around. Using your stat weights for it, that 3% would equal 90 ap. Not to mention with devilsaur you'd be at 5% hit with just 3 items opening up slots for more crit. I'll admit I haven't done the math but it seems far too good to pass up. Thoughts? Edit: Forgot about Voone's Vice Grips as well. 2% hit on gloves for a quest item. Never seen in any BiS list either. So with a BoE sword, one quest item and 3 talent points you are at 8% hit. Ultra easy to obtain, and you can itemize the other slots accordingly
+1 for Warmonger. I used Warmonger to maintain hitcap for Huhuran while in max NR soak gear. I figured it made more sense to spend 30-50 gold for 3% hit vs making ZG enchants for the NR set. So if you end up picking it up for prebis make sure to bank it! Could be useful later.
Dude you've gotta slow down or stop drinking so much coffee or something. I love your content but it's so hard to concentrate when you smack your lips every 45seconds.
I love your content and i'm super grateful for it but, I have to ask; Do you chew gum when you make these videos? you constantly stop talking to loudly swallow and once you notice it, it's super fucking annoying. Talk slower maybe?
Glorious. You should colaborate/peer pressure other guys like Frostmadus to do one for each class. (their mains) I couldn't ask you to personally do one for each; I mean if you did, that'd be fucking nuts but yeah it would take a lot of time!
Great guide kargos! Right now now i'm leveling a hunter on turtle wow. They just released a new patch and added a new ability called true shot. Anyway great content. You and hamstwheel are my go to wow channels.
Great guide! Thanks for putting it together and walking us through it, really gave me a good idea of what to expect if I wanna be a pro hunter in classic :)
Kargoz, this is a great guide you've put together! I can tell a lot of work has gone into it. My first character was a hunter, and it's the class I've always played the most ever since Vanilla. This will be a great help to me when Classic comes out.
First off, phenomenal guide! However: It seemed a bit strange to me that you delved into advanced mechanics like min/maxed damage rotation and gear / trinket swapping before touching the talent build section. In my mind the talent build is the most basic thing everything else is built on and i would have set it after the "The Hunter Role" part. To put it into perspective of where i'm coming from: I never played vanilla hunter before, so there was nothing on this guide i already knew beforehand. The whole damage rotation / gear swapping section would have been more easily digestible for a hunter illiterate like me if the talent build section came before the rest. It's a nitpicky argument since i know the guide as a whole is designed to be a long term read-along and reference, but still wanted to point it out. Regardless, it was a pleasure to watch and really makes me want to delve deep into hunter once Vanilla officially releases. I'll definitely look out for more of your guides in the future and i really appreciate the amount of hard work you put into this. Liked and subbed.
Fantastic guide, work, and explanation. I'll be utilizing this as a former Vanilla hunter. I was a noob back then and I progressed like every one else over the years. It will be interesting to back and play a vanilla hunter with better skill and with things like this better intel! Great job to everyone involved. Thanks man.
dude. you just did everything. insane guide with pretty much everything ill ever need. also you just helped me to finally make my decision on what class to pick in classic. it was between druid (my old main back in the days), mage or hunter. that was so much work and its so fing apreciated. thank you.
One question: It is always said hunter falls off a cliff in lategame past t2 and does not scale as well as the other classes. Could you please comment on that? Thank you.
Wouldn't Bone Slicing Hatchets be much better than Dal' Rends? Has an absolutely insane amount of agility between both especially with the enchants on both it comes out to 56 agility 10 stamina.
If you aren’t having luck with rolls on Truestrike Shoulders, a similar itemized alternative is available: Wyrmhide Spaulders. It’s a BRD quest reward : shoulders with 2% hit. Keep trying for Truestrike however, the 24AP is significant.
your swallowing every few seconds as you talk is very distracting and annoying! drink some damn water! XD otherwise very informational and informative.
Topic Timestamps:
Ding 60! First Steps - 4:35
The Hunter Role - 7:07
Damage Rotation - 7:53
Gear/Trinket Swapping - 19:05
Kiting - 27:25
Hunter Stats - 29:26
Talent Builds - 34:21
All About Pets - 38:15
Hunter Itemization - 47:57
Pre-BiS Gear - 48:58
BiS Enchants - 55:04
World Buffs - 55:24
Raid Consumables - 55:32
Weapons Listed by Rotation Type: 56:09
The Hunter Income - 57:04
Wheres the segment on getting ganked by gnome rogues?
The only thing you never speak on is Professions, granted not a huge impact on end game meta, but still would have been nice to mention the benefit to having specific profession combos, i.e. Skinning/LW for farming early Fire Resistance gear for Ony/MC/BWL or Mining/Engineering for additional DPS consumables in raids along with scopes for your range weapons, etc.
Man your guides are awesome!
Kargoz your guides are so in depth and amazing...
You are the man. I appreciate your time spent making this.
Okay, this is epic.
My two favorite vanilla wow content creators all in one place
Your channel is epic!
dumb reddit meme
You are epic as well sir, keep up the great work
@@slavicman-bd7jn let the normies roam, gosh
Once and awhile you come across those youtube channels that don't have the viewerbase they should have, and deliver amazing content for their audience. This channel is one of those "diamond in the rough" channels. Keep it up man
Give it some time bro hes new
@@Niaxe111 Well the best comparison to Kargoz is probably Tipsout. They both are relatively new to content creation (last 1-2 years) and Kargoz is self made. Tips makes videos for clicks and money, he gets carried on the ClassicCast, he *brings on* these huge wow content creators for more views, he copies content from other content creators-very blatantly might I add. I could go on, but Kargoz is the best youtube in everyway, so what is "new."
@@brandonlindley8697 Not tryna argue buddy. Im on yall side. Have a good day bruh
The guy has some serious charisma
Diamond in the rough is raziya and traque kargoz is a meme
As a serious hunter, I have been unbelievably disappointed by all hunter guides. This is the first hunter guide I felt like a new hunter should watch/read.
This is probably the most comprehensive guide of all the guides I have ever seen. It felt like I was sitting at a lecture :D In a good way
Stop and catch your breath man, you're making me anxious.
Or drink some water or take an ant-acid or something.....i'd rather just read....
Pteropyro there is a link to the presentation in the description so you can read it at your leisure
I kinda like the way he talks though, it makes things intense
I would love to see a PVP equivalent of this video.
can be summed by "destroy clothies and cry whenever yo uface a paladin"
Full vs Clipped rotation:
Someone parsed this out with a variety of weapons, and the conclusion was fairly simple.
2.7 base Weapon Speed and below: Full
2.8-3.1 base Weapon Speed: Clipped
3.2 base Weapon Speed and above: Full
This is universal across all ranged weapons, in case the weapon you're using isn't among the 4 Kargoz listed out.
I love how the quality of WoW content is such a cool Grass Roots UA-cam movement. Just a lot of passion and hard-working people who keep raising the bar for one another. It feels kind of like the UA-cam from 10+ years ago. From you Kargoz, to Defcamp and Melderon, the Classicast and Countdown to Classic crew. Can't wait for someone to make a web documentary about all this when it's said and done. Cheers guys, the community is thankful
No other class has a community willing to go the distance like hunters, i see it in retail and see it now, fight me lol
Hey mate! I've sat down and watched the whole thing. This is a world-class guide, I'll tell ya what. :) Apologies again that we never got to talk at length about some more of this stuff. You produced such an in-depth guide so quickly and efficiently. It's truly admirable!
For other hunters reading the comments, I'll, uhh, leave some more commentary here. As Kargoz said at the end of the vid, let's improve the guide by contributing in the comments! However, I should preface what I'm saying with this disclaimer: My experience is on the private servers: Nostalrius, Kronos, Elysium, Light's Hope... anything could change in official Classic! Hopefully what I know about this or that is relevant to what's coming.
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08:02 - Regarding Multi-Shot, it seems to function with chaining logic. Three projectiles are fired at once, but the secondary target struck will be closest to the primary, and the tertiary target will be whatever's closest to the secondary that isn't also the primary target. With this in mind, say you have three mobs like this:
*1 2 3*
Aim at 1 or 3, not 2! If you fire at 2, it will chain to 1 or 3 and not across to the other because while 1 or 3 are close enough to 2 for a secondary target to be struck, the tertiary is too far. Aim at 1 or 3, and it'll chain across 2 to the opposite side. Kinda weird, but that's how it works. If you're really good with this sort of thing, you can use Multi-Shot around a sheep and not hit the sheep if you aim it right. At the very least, this should come in useful when your tanks need to spread targets out.
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11:03 - The debuff slots are indeed the biggest issue when it comes to using Serpent Sting. However, if you have the mana to blow and a fight allows for it, fire one off! No harm done on, say, twin Emps when you've got the DPS split. No physical debuffs on the caster, no magic debuffs on the melee. Less debuffs in play, so the Serpent Sting may fly in a case like that.
Chat strats with your hunter core! Your team may be able to come up with some neat hunter-only DPS-pushing strats, such as the above idea. Maybe it doesn't work out, but part of the fun in raids is experimenting. See what you can get away with.
Here's another example of a hunter-only strat: On Thaddius, you may need to pass through the boss and you'll need to be in minimum range for your ranged rotation. Your melee must be at max range for you to benefit from their buffs, and vice versa. My hunter core forced the melee to stand at max range if they wanted full damage buffs, which fixed the issue of slacking / resistant melee, but there was still the issue of where minimum range was, exactly. So, we began dropping flares on the exact spots we had to stand to be at minimum range as a visual cue. This turned out to save some seconds over the course of the fight.
It's the little things...
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13:00 - Regarding Auto Shot first, those casters get to precast their spells at the start of a fight. If you're already in combat, that Auto Shot first is important 'cause you can cast that Aimed Shot while it's on CD, but if your casters are pre-casting, might as well pre-cast Aimed Shot, yourself so it lands as the fight starts.
Also, I'm not sure I would recommend burst CDs at the very beginning all the time. If you know you'll only have exactly that long where your burst will come up a second time only if you pop it at the very start, that's absolutely recommended! However, the burst rotation can be really high on threat, and if you have your TrinketMenu set to swap as soon as you're out of combat but you need to FD, it's gonna do that in the middle of your rotation. Really inconvenient. As long as you're synced up with the hunter squad, and don't miss the chance to pop burst a second time, any time's good. :D And then you get the chance to let the tank get some threat, do some minor DPS, maybe try for Quick Shots, and then FD before going into hard burst + sync.
(comment too long, continuing here)
19:06 - Badge of the Swarmguard is something the melee will definitely want too. To placate the melee class leads, I struck 'em a deal. They get Naxx trinkets, hunters get dibs on AQ. BotS is AMAZING in combination with Jom Gabbar. Earthstrike / Slayer's Crest are cool too, but JG works very well with our burst rotation.
On Light's Hope, Juju Flurry and Kiss of the Spider increase Auto Shot attack speed, but doesn't reduce Aimed Shot cast time. Rapid Fire and Quick Shots improve Auto Shot and Aimed Shot. Thus, I figured it was best to leave KotS to the melee and stick with default haste CDs and other trinkets.
Sync is great before BotS, but afterwards you'll get an itchy trigger finger every time your raid needs to stop for some reason. It's too fun to stop shooting stuff!
Renataki's is an interesting trinket too, but my experience is with JG, so I'll go over that. I've never actually run the numbers, but this is how I've always done it:
BotS starts the burst rotation. You've got ten seconds until Rapid Fire + Jom Gabbar / Earthstrike / Devilsaur Eye, so I like to Auto Multi Auto Aimed. At 20 seconds left on BotS, that's when I pop my secondaries because by then I've got several stacks of BotS. You'll have time for another Auto Multi Auto Aimed here, and then I swap it around as Rapid Fire ends - I cast Aimed Shot after the last Auto I can get out before Rapid Fire ends to take advantage of the reduced cast time, then finish the combo with an Auto Multi Auto at the peak of Jom Gabbar and at the end of BotS. Then it's into the normal rotation, nothing jacked up, as Kargoz put it later on.
Two things: If you have two pieces of T3, Rapid Fire at 24 secs left on BotS. I guess you could pop it at 20 again if you really want the extra haste on your second-to-last Auto's CD, so you get the very last one in the rotation, but it hasn't been a problem for me. Uhh... maybe Aimed is popped off a little less than the _very_ end of Rapid Fire. Sorry, it's been a while. It's somewhere around there though.
As long as your last Auto flies while you have the buffs, it should benefit from them even if it hits the boss some time after your buffs are dropped.
Second thing, the Rapid Fires are synced up. The T2 hunter should pop his RF when you do yours so you get that +450 AP during the peak of your burst. +1100 RAP with JG at its peak, pretty fun. If he pops it when your BotS starts up, you won't capitalize as much on the max uptime.
If you're looking for more info on the "burst sync" technique, it's mentioned at 48:41 under the T2 section. The gist of it is that whoever's wearing T2 syncs his Rapid Fire with the burst of your other hunters, helping max your uptime on Expose Weakness and boost the benefit you'll all receive while you'll do the most damage.
Side note, I mentioned Warmonger in the T1 section. I'm not sure when Warmonger comes out, so maybe it won't even be available to pick up earlier on in vanilla. If that's the case and I'm mistaken, you'll need some other pieces to keep hit cap for when you really need it - like for tranqs. I say that because some hunters like to roll with a little less than 9% hit, kinda gambling, but keep extra hit pieces on them so they can fulfill their guild's tranqing needs.
Another similar technique Timecop and I talked about during the Countdown to Classic podcast, another DPS-pushing one, was the melee weaving idea. When you get into that "flex zone" in the ranged rotation, go into melee and smack the boss with a Raptor Strike. I doubt this will work well for some fights where your targets have inconveniently large hitboxes, you're deadzoned too long and all, but hey! It sounds like a good idea. Your Auto Shot and auto attack don't share CD, so this can be abused.
One other thing to note about melee weaving is that two-handers tend to amount to more AP while dual-wielding tends to amount to more crit. The latter is commonly regarded as ideal. I suppose it'll be up to further experimentation to confirm if using a 2h is worth it as long as you're melee weaving with it.
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25:06 - Something of note about hunter multi-target damage is that it's all limited. Volley, 1 minute CD. Engi, 1 min CD on bombs, 5 mins on Sappers. Multi-Shot, 3 targets max. Traps, cooldown, you get it. This is where another idea came into play: The Ravager.
Hypothetically, you could proc Bladestorm with the axe, the Ravager, while all your other stuff is on CD. If you get lucky, it should be a DPS boost. However, whereas it's glitched for sure on Kronos and you can do other stuff (pop bombs, multi, etc) during Bladestorm, that shouldn't be the case on official classic. It's not the case on Light's Hope.
It doesn't have too many practical applications in raids. I've used it to excellent effect on the spider trash before spider boss in ZG, I've used it on 2- or 3-pack pulls on the small Core Hounds before Magmadar. Other than that, I haven't found it to be useful in raids.
...However, it's awesome in five-mans or if you're running a lowbie friend through something! Gather those low-level elites up with your pet, spam rank 1 Wing Clip on something, Bladestorm it all to death. Aside from being fun, this is relevant to earning clout with your guild, like if you want to run a guildie's alt through Deadmines or Wailing Caverns, so consider picking one of these up. You may be pleasantly surprised!
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28:07 - I regard kiting and stutter stepping as two different techniques. Kiting is simply running around while keeping something behind you while stutter stepping refers to moving while Auto Shot is on CD and stopping to shoot when it's off CD. I say that for the sake of clarification as I continue on:
Depending on how long it'll take to kill something, the rotation may differ. Stutter stepping for PvE in the open world will probably be used mostly at level 1-10, and during that time you'll have Arcane Shot, Serpent Sting, and Concussive Shot.
It's a little funny, but I like to Mark > Auto > Arcane > Auto > Serpent > Auto > Concussive > Auto > Arcane > Auto > Raptor, or the same thing except with Serpent and Concussive reversed. That SHOULD be enough to kill most targets at 1-10, but if not, you can continue to avoid melee. The reason I like to Arcane first is because I've found you can have it come off CD sooner, more likely before the mob reaches you, and I consider Serpent Sting to be most beneficial when it's used to help you ignore mobs or complement your melee damage.
Essentially, cram as many Arcane Shots as possible into your rotation, Serpent Sting is an afterthought. You can ignore a mob that'll tick to death, and Serpent ticks with Raptors will make finishing a target in melee more easily. And, once you get Wing Clip, this rotation becomes irrelevant since you can easily get away.
This is where I differ between kiting and stutter stepping. When you stutter step to get those Autos in, your goal is to kill something. To kite something, you simply need it to follow. In that case, you may only need your handy-dandy rank 1 Arcane Shot. Maybe. I mean, if you're kiting one of those big drakonids in BWL, Distracting Shot is gonna be the most useful. You can damage it too with Immolation Trap / Serpent Sting / Arcane Shot to test its vulnerabilities, that's useful, but you know what I mean - it's gotta do with what you're trying to do with the mob you're interacting with. Y'know?
After all, we may be assigned at times to a utility role. While the prospect of damage is appealing, we must be focused on our ultimate goals to be the most productive, to contribute the most to the raid. If you're a new hunter, don't split your priorities too hard until you know what you're doing! Then, by all means, have fun. :)
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34:14 - I feel the need to emphasize for those poor melee DPS that Drake Fang Talisman is effectively only an 8 AP upgrade over Royal Seal. For melee, that thing's BiS until Naxx, IIRC, maybe even through Naxx. Idk melee, really, I like hunters, but all I know is it's REALLY good for melee. People hated me for having one of these, so I can't recommend picking one up unless literally no melee in the raid need it at all. Otherwise, you might have trouble bargaining with them for the burst trinkets you want.
So, uhh, you'll need to keep hit cap without DFT. It's much easier for hunters than it is for melee. Likewise... the melee in my guild were very fond of Unnatural Forces, Stormrage's, and Kingsfall in Naxx. Slayer's Crest, too. So, uhh, y'all can expect some competition there.
One of the great things about hunters is we really don't need to deal with MUCH competition, but there is some. I strongly recommend staying in your melee DPS' good graces so you or your class leader can get some concessions on stuff the hunter core wants.
(comment too long, continuing here)
43:19 - Yep. Furious Howl has poor calculation, I've found, and needs to be micro'd well too. In summary, it's a burst ability that allows it to compete with cats and wind serpents without a focus dump of its own... but, because it's tricky to optimize and may not even come into play on certain fights, I have to recommend a cat or wind serpent once Lupos is nerfed. My hunter core preferred wind serpents.
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44:34 - About cats and wind serpents, there is one other edge they have over wolves - because they have a focus dump, they benefit much more from buffs and debuffs!
Cats as physical damage benefit majorly from Sunder Armor, Blessing of Might, you know. They benefit the most of the trinity. Wind serpents are better later in the game not only because of the R6 LB coming out with ZG, but also because your tank's probably gonna have Thunderfury by then, you'll probably have Nightfall up too, and the debuffs applied by those weapons benefit Lightning Breath. Still, cats compete with wind serpents.
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48:41 - Ayy lmao. A lot of the stuff I'm rambling about here is mentioned at this time, too. Figure I should mention that.
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55:39 - One essential consumable I always brought to raids - and I'm not being funny here - are snowballs. The other classes may laugh at you for wanting buffs on your pet, they may deny you buffs outright just to be jerks, so here's what ya do: You fill your bags with snowballs, you bring 'em to raid, and every time that priest is trying to drink but your pet doesn't have Power Word: Fortitude, you snowball that priest. You snowball the hell out of 'em until they buff the damn pet.
Don't worry about pissing the healers off. You don't compete with them, it's hard to die as a hunter, and if you're Horde, shamans' Chain Heals I'm told bounce to your pet anyway, so it doesn't matter. XD
You'll want Mark of the Wild, Power Word: Fortitude, uhh... Blessing of Might and Kings on your pet. That's all an Alliance hunter would need the healers for. You should also bring Scroll of Agility IV and Scroll of Strength IV for your pet since you can't exactly make it drink an elixir. Gotta min-max that pet damage, ya know?
If I'm not mistaken, Juju Might is glitched on Light's Hope. It's not meant to buff ranged attack power, but it does. If that's the case, it'll be a consumable for your pet along with Juju Power. That's just what I've been told; maybe Blizzard will allow it to buff RAP too.
I'm so glad you mentioned Lily Roots too! I totally recommend picking up a Lei of Lilies as soon as possible in vanilla. You don't need to keep it on, but using it on CD before and during your raid nights will pay off. You won't need to use as many Night Dragon's Breath, maybe you can save on mana potions or whatever as well. Very, very useful.
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57:09 - I have to emphasize as well that my guide for DM T applies strictly to Kronos, while my Mara guide was figured out according to Light's Hope. If you're looking to farm DM T on retail classic, know that Blizzard has given the king Summon Player, which makes kiting kinda not possible.
However, if you bring a wind serpent and use Eyes of the Beast + Lightning Breath against the king, Summon Player shouldn't be a problem because it's your pet, not you. There are other methods to kill him even accounting for Summon Player, but they may be related to other issues unique to Light's Hope. So... the wind serpent EotB strat is most likely the safest bet.
That said, a BM spec will still be useful for DM T farming considering and using this method. And like Kargoz specified, it's a paradise for hunter pre-raid BiS. You can solo farm a lot of your pre-raid BiS with some DM T. I don't really enjoy DM T outside of Kronos, I stick with Mara for casual farming, but it's totally worth it if you can get that pre-raid BiS. Pick up a swaggerific Treant's Bane, get yourself (or your guild) a Foror's, it's great.
About Mara, there shouldn't be too much different. Maybe the Princess is immune to nature damage, so you'll want to bring a carrion bird or whatever to tank her instead. Maybe the Ghost Mushrooms are in slightly different locations. I think the biggest problem with Mara farming in retail classic that'll differ from my guide is actually resetting the instance and going back in. So, uhh... if you can't reset and /camp out like you can on Light's Hope, maybe drowning yourself and running back in purple won't be too bad. The Ghost Mushrooms can add a lot to the farm! They tend to be quite valuable, especially nearer the end of vanilla when you can expect warlocks to use Shadow Power Elixirs more commonly, and simply having an asset that changes value with the market is convenient if the flow goes up. So... I recommend the purple route + inner for maxing the Mara farm. I've enjoyed that route the most, I like it the best.
I'm also ex-Cartel, skinner and bouncer. Getting into the Devilsaur Cartel is a great way to get yourself some swanky diggs and some moolah while you're at it, but that does seem to involve some politics. You know, you'll want to stay in the good graces of the crafters and the rest of the Cartel. Come out there when they need you so they'll come out for your sake if you get into a scuffle over the beasts. And then there's profit splitting, but if you guys control the market very well, you can sell those pieces for as much as you want and folks will need to buy 'em. If you aren't interested in joining the Cartel, take care while you're out there and see about securing the leather you need as early as possible... before the prices skyrocket.
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Kargoz, thanks again so much for reaching out to me while making this guide! It warms my heart that there are such passionate content creators out there, and it brings me joy that such content will go on to help more hunters come official classic. This video is greatly inspiring. Just as well, I'm truly grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this, myself. Thank you!
I also hope to meet the other hunters you consulted for this guide, someday. They sound very knowledgeable and passionate.
To any other hunters out there reading this... hello! I'm Raziya. If you'd like to chat hunter stuff, hit me up in the comments of any of my vids. Provided YT gives me a notification in the first place, I'll try and respond at my earliest convenience. :D
Raziya the Ravager dude you are an absolute legend thanks again for all your help with this and for this additional great feedback ../salute
It was sincerely my honor, privilege, and pleasure. If you ever need something from me again, you're more than welcome to hit me up any time. :)
Edit: Hmm, two of my replies aren't showing up unless I'm logged in. Thanks, UA-cam. Does this all the time. lol
@@RaziyatheRavager You're a god dude, you've inspired me to play Hunter for Classic. Hope to see more content from you when it launches
We need a discussion on hunter bis moving forward from dungeons and 10 man content. Moving into Molten core, BWL, ZG and the dragons of nightmare. The hunter is faced with a series of options for reaching the 9% hit cap.
''Stating that Drake Fang Talisman is bis trinket is not helpful information, it is obvious information''
- Novat
19/20 hunters raiding BWL will NOT be in a position to pick up the Drake Fang Talisman from warriors and Rogues. It would not only be unwise for the guild to assign the item to the hunter, it would be unwise for the hunter to accept the item if offered. The item is better placed on a warrior or a rogue for the purpose of boosting the overall damage output of the raid. Only if the hunter is exceedingly exceptional and reliable, and all the reliable warriors and rogues have received their trinket, should the hunter be considered for the trinket. The same can be said for Band of Accuria and the quick strike ring.
Further more, the +7 damage scope has an AP value depending on the speed of the weapon. It's a bit complicated, since the damage bonus is added as a flat value to aimed shot and multi shot which are tied down to the nature of clipping them in between auto shots. While the added auto shot value is affected by the added attack speed bonus of the quiver. I.e the converted AP bonus of +7 damage is different for auto and for multi + aimed.
Base AP value of +7 damage scope. Actual AP value will be greater depending on which quiver you equip.
pre-bis 3.3 speed = 29.7
MC 2.9 speed = 33.79
BWL 3.4 speed = 28.82
Naxx 3.2 speed = 30.625
Obviously the +3% hit scope will ALWAYS be superior to the +7 damage hit scope. However, this is only true in a vacuum assuming no other pieces of gear. If you assume that different items are available, the math becomes convoluted and there exist scenarios where using the damage scope is the superior option. This is especially true after ZG, when bonus hit becomes very easy to come by for hunters.
Note: The spawn of Hakkar serpent in Sunken Temple is immune to fear, including the fear cast by the goblin boss in Maraudon and the fear cast by the Devilsaur.
The guide gives the impression that moving between 4 ranged weapons is the only path of progression. This is true, in the context of best in slot. However, Larvae of the great worm from AQ40 and Soulstring deserves mention.
Larvae of the great worm: Gun acquired from the great worm (duh) Ouro in AQ40. With a speed of 3.0, and being a gun. It's a fantastic alternative for Dwarf hunters, should the crossbow prove particularly elusive. If your guild is Alliance and loot council. You may consider reserving the Crossbow for the night elves, with the understanding that the gun is just as good and the net benefit to the guild as a whole will be greater.
Soulstring: Bow acquired from the Four Horsemen in Naxxramas. With a weapon speed of 2.9 and being a bow. It's very good for Troll hunters. It may be faster than the crossbow by half a second, but it's significantly higher item level means that it's 15dps lead results in 43 damage bonus over the crossbow. Same as above. Reserve the crossbow for the orc hunters, and let the trolls use the MC bow until a crossbow becomes available or use it until Soulstring drops in Naxxramas. Though this is less likely than Alliance Dwarves having to resort to a gun in AQ40. In addition to killing Ouro way earlier than 4 horsemen in comparison to Chromaggus. Alliance guilds tend to bring more hunters than horde.
There’s a 2% hit gloves out of LBRS quest line that might be a good alternative for people not having luck with hit capping or can’t afford Devilsaur right away. Look for Voones Vice Grips.
Very professional guide. Your displaying improves so much with any further guide you are making. what i like the most is the RP style touch you are weaving in. great work brother.
10/10 guide, thanks for the stream content every did rly enjoy your guide. Can we have a mage one please? ofc
Really nice in-depth guide. There is one important point you seem to neglect though: Melee swings & weapons, especially as horde hunter - key word windfury totem. You mentioned weaving in raptor strike, feign death, trinket swapping, etc. but you didn't put emphasis on getting in melee hits with a big 2h in your rotation.
In my opinion that's most likely the no°1 source of damage increase hunters can achieve by optimizing gameplay. You stick to minimum shooting range and get in wing clip+raptorstrike (+on hit procs) between autoshots if Aimed Shot & Multi Shot are on cooldown.
Especially so when Savage Strikes is specced into. Also something to consider is if you’re going to Raptor Strike weave, a wolf pet might make more sense over cat. If you’re in a melee group you can have your wolf on the boss and still get the Howl buff.
@@renegadehunter7365 Howl buff works on ranged physical attacks too.
Liroy Schmidt Yes you are correct. I mention wolf in relation to being assigned a full melee group. TSA + Howl is great, and if you’re positioned closer to weave in melee; you and your group will get the buff, vs just having the wolf beside you and Howling before an Aimed Shot for example. 👍
Oh...my...GAWD dude. This is amazeballs. I would ask if you plan on doing this for the other classes, but with the amount of work this OBVIOUSLY took, I couldn't in good conscience expect that from you. I'll just enjoy the hell out of this damn thing.
You get a big like from me. Not only do I remember the torture of farming pre raid Hunter gear. I just realised how many Tribute runs I'll be doing. Also easy money selling Princess runs as a BM hunter. Can someone remind me to quit my job when classic drops. Thanks for this mate. This, was, amazing!
I've never seen a content creator go into such detail or depth in any Classic topic before - this is completely a different level that you've taken this to. To say the least I think this sets a new bar in Classic WoW Guides. Well done!
Raserisk wow dude thanks so much for the kind words...I hope one day I can reach the level of production value you put into your creations
It sets a bar that I still haven't seen reached yet.
Edit: except perhaps by Melderon's Shaman videos
Woo! Going to watch this while I level up a Hunter on a -Voldemort- server.
You, kargoz and platinum wow are my hero's.
@@Jkg71 Thanks for the kind words and support. :)
Thanks for this, I’m between Hunter and Lock for classic. Looking forward to a fantastic summer!
I dislike hunters like Kargoz dislikes rogues, but this guide is freaking amazing. Would love to see similar for other classes too.
While i can see that you've put in much work, you forgot to implement the most important calculations of all, Spelldamage buffs and curse of shadows vs armor amount. Secondly you fail to realize that Improved Aspect of the hawk has NO ppm, and thus more autoshots means a higher uptime.
Aimed shot converts one autoshot into an aimedshot, and negates at least one autoshot and clipping at least one more. What this means if your useing the slowest weapon in game, with aimed shot, you lose 1% autoshoot dps due to the speed with the clipping, on that shot and loose 2 autoshoots every 9 seconds. Since improved aspect of the hawk has no PPM, the formula to calculate your autoshot dps, is (1-(19/20)^2*100)% for a 9.75% uptime of Improved aspect of the hawk with aimed shot, while it is (1-(19/20)^4*100)% for a 18.55% uptime with arcane shot For easy calculation, this means if your autoshoot dps is 100, your dps with aimed shot is (100-9.75)+(9.75*1.30) for an average dps of 102.93 while its (100-18.55)+(18.55*1.3) for an average dps of 105.65. for arcane shot. The more shots you fire dureing the 9 seconds, the higher the uptime will be, and the more drastic the difference will be towards the autoshoot damage with a faster weapon.
Now For your calculations, you seem to have calculated 0 armor, and 0 resistance in any comparison. Up to and includeing BWL armor value of a raid boss is 4691 armor, With sunder armor and feariefire, this is reduced to 1936 armor, wich translates into 24.75% damage reduction. 600 damage with that damage reduction over 9 seconds results into (600*((100-24.75)/100))/9 = 50.16 dps.
Arcaneshot has a 40.83% spell coefficiency, with Flask of supreme power, brilliant wizard oil and Greater arcane elixer you gain (150+45+36)/100*40.83 = 94 damage per arcane shot. With talents you can reduce the cooldown to 5 seconds, and with Curse of shadows, you gain an additional 10% damage to arcane damage. Raidbosses have 145 resistance to Arcane, -75 from Curse of shadows, = 70 resistance, wich results in a 17.5% average dps loss due to resistance. so its total dps is ((183+94)*1.1*((100-17.5)/100))/5 = 50.28 dps.
Suddenly the "arbitrary 183 arcane damage vs the 600 aimed shot damage doesn't seem so arbitrary anymore! Aimed shot 50.16 dps Arcane shot 50.28 dps Both doing almost exactly 50.2 dps.
With a baseline 100 dps, at 3 second shot timer, aimed shot is 102.93+50.16 dps (153.09 dps) vs arcane shot 105.65+50.27 dps (155.92 dps)
Now keep in mind in this example the base line dps is only 100, if your baseline is higher, (wich every hunter at 60 should have) the IAOH difference is going to be higher. Ontop of these after BWL the armor value of raid bosses is increased to 6650, or after debuffs to 39.83% damage reduction due to armor, while the resistance values remain the same. This results in even more comparative dps loss.
PS Sniper scope is a flat out +7 damage per shot, Faster shots result in more dps by that scope as well.
After all this i urge you to doublecheck the calculations, then remind yourself how increadibly delicate the seemingly "unbalanced" vanilla world of warcraft is, and be open for different approaches.
As refrence, I'm going with this build for my hunter
classicdb.ch/?talent#cxZVEqhthtI0z
I use Aimedshot primarily as an opener, or in bwl, when i have the burning adrenaline debuff from Vaelastraz.
Disclaimer: to make ARCANE SHOT outperform AIMED SHOT PRE AQ40 you need to spend more on consumables.
Your comment inspired me to try spell power when classic arrives. I have a few questions regarding the arcane shot specc,if you dont mind:
would you say theres a sweet spot for weapon speed, or is faster always better to get the most out of iaoth (when the dps of the weapon is the same)?
Do you think the +5 gun/bow skills become more beneficial with this spec because alot of the guns/bows have higher weapon speed than their crossbow counterparts and are probably BiS for this spec? I'm considering rolling dwarf just to get the most out of this specc
What's generally more important: the dps of a weapon or its speed? Or is it far more complicated than this?
@@legendofJupp I'll answer them to the best of my abilities:
would you say theres a sweet spot for weapon speed, or is faster always better to get the most out of iaoth (when the dps of the weapon is the same)?
On paper faster is always better, but its a lot more complicated then that. Faster means the percentage damage of IMOH is bigger, but if your base damage is to low, the increase of that doesn't always out scale a slower more damaging weapon. For the ease of use, i've found out that prebis, Hurricane is by far the best weapon, but once you start getting raid equivalent upgrades, the raid equivalent upgrades follow each other in unison, outperforming the previous just slightly overall. This might be modified if your acquiring of the weapon is later then the rest of your gear, and this does not include the weapons from ZG and AQ20
Do you think the +5 gun/bow skills become more beneficial with this spec because alot of the guns/bows have higher weapon speed than their crossbow counterparts and are probably BiS for this spec? I'm considering rolling dwarf just to get the most out of this specc:
The 5 gun / bow skills are quite important, because in vanilla defense skill surplus, gives you armor penetration. 5 skill equals to roughly 2.5% armor penetration, which makes physical damage hurt more. While there guns will temporarily surpass the bow/crossbow options available at that time, however, they don't out scale Soulstring as the bis weapon. Toxic Injector (grobullus) however is one of the best options only nerubian slavemaker (0.5 dps more dropped from kelthuzad) and Soulstring (3.6 dps more dropped from 4 hoursemen) are better. (these dps differences are after applying the scope arrows and aspect)
What's generally more important: the dps of a weapon or its speed? Or is it far more complicated than this?
It is far more complicated, your attackpower, crit chance, scope, and base total dps all depend if the endresult outscales it. therefore i recommend useing this list as a calculation help. The first colum is the weapon speed, the second one is the average dps increase based on ppm of Improved aspect of the hawk, and the 3rd colum is the dps increase by the scope alone. To get an accurate calculation, you add your weapon damage + your scope damage + your arrow damage + your damage from attack power together, then multiply it by the aspect ratio and see if its a bigger upgrade
speed Aspect Scope
3.4 5.7 2.42
3.2 6.0 2.57
3.0 6.3 2.74
2.9 6.45 2.84
2.8 6.6 2.94
2.7 6.6 3.05
2.6 6.6 3.17
2.5 7.2 3.30
2.4 7.8 3.43
2.3 8.1 3.59
2.2 8.4 3.74
2.0 9.0 4.11
1.8 9.9 4.57
1.6 10.8 5.14
Nice, this will be great to watch while leveling this summer :)
Extremely thorough, detailed, and informative. You seem very rushed and go over a lot of information very quickly. I have to put all my focus into this video to keep up. I’m not sure if slowing you down will help. I’m going to rewatch at half speed and see if that helps me.
Your passion for the class and vanilla overall is a wonderful thing to behold my friend. I don’t have time to play anymore but frequently come back to your vanilla content to still feel apart of the game.
I have been looking for a guide like this for 3 months, can't believe I'm seeing this until now. Insanely in-depht, to the point, no bullshit guide. You truly deserve all the praise you can get. Great work!
Are you eating while making this video or something? You keep doing these big swallows like you're trying to get through a sandwich. Pretty damn good video nonetheless.
So im coming back for classic. A lot of these streamers are cranking out fluff content like theres no tomorrow. You stuff has heart and soul. Love your stuff.
dude why are you always burping and pausing to burp lol
It's Up!!
This video was absolutely amazingly thorough, would love to see more guides! Personally I'd like to know more about Warlocks and Shamans
This is unbelievable. I've watched many guides for many games but this is on another level, this is the type of guide you want when you start looking for one but always settle for half hearted brief overviews. Top notch, well done.
Aww yeah a Kargoz guide. Push the limits of your combat efficiency!
Awesome guide and on point without any misinformation, bravo!
Loved that you mentioned the Raptor Strike/Sapper for the flex spot, as it is something that gets overlooked quite often. Little sad that you did not went into too much detail with it, but as it is a super tryhard method to increase DPS, I see how a starter guide might not be the right place to approach that. However, with the right positioning (as close as possible to boss to shoot ranged attacks) and the right gear setup (slow x-bow + slow 2h melee) you can actually pull off running into melee to Raptor Strike + R1 Wing Clip and getting back into ranged position before your autoshot resets (thus not clipping any and getting free extra damage from the melee). This is much easier to pull off once ZG arrives with the 20% runspeed potion but buffs DPS by a fair amount on Alliance side and a quite noticable amount on Horde due to Windfury. Maybe it is worth to mention for those few dyhard tryhards :)
This is awesome. This is defiantly the shit we need more off.
@@odiw2509 you will do this for a couple of weeks and be fed up with it... its a really nice dps increase but tedious as fuck...
why play hunter if you arent gonna be autoshooting reading a book :P
@@oxXBubbleXxo lmfao that's a hilarious joke as I am now currently the 2nd highest parsing hunter on my server that has mastered weaving and weave every boss. The only hunter above me is in a turbo-nerd guild that kills bosses half as quick as my guild.
The timing of your comment couldn't be worse but nice throw back rofl.
Amazing work mate.
I’m voting Warlock next when you’re able 👍 ty
I usually never comment, but this...awesome work. Used to play Hunter in Vanilla, first ever character...This is the best video I came across in a long time. Keep up the good work!
Wow, what a great informative video! Thanks for doing this, maybe warlock next? :)
Hi! Nice guide, but I have some criticism to offer: someone was rushing you at the end to finish within an hour or what? It is useless for a viewer if you just rush through the slides and skip through them. "I don't wanna take your time" - if I made the time already to watch your video, I want to watch the content. I, as a viewer, can skip any time if some of the content is too much for me or it's boring. Especially when you put the timestamps. But you just reading the headlines and saying "read the presentation" is absolutely useless for me and I am still spending time on it, because I expect content. I really wouldn't mind you going through all of it.
Really, what made you rush so much at the end?
Otherwise, it would be awesome comprehensive guide.
TrinketMenu is a great addon for swapping trinkets around. I remember Timecop on K1 using it
This shit right here!
I would have loved another 60 minutes.
Top notch content man!
What i did as a Hunter in classic burst all my mana and then Feign Death and Drink. AND so on Repeat.
Lol me too.
@@chuckchuckerson5364 i wouldnt laugh at it. its a good rotation depending on the fight. i did top the DPS many times as a hunter. i consider the weak PVE dps to be rubbish. when it comes to mages and warlocks they can be far more ineffective as dps due to that they spend mana to fast and have to Wand.
@@chuckchuckerson5364 it is possible to manage the DPS without having to resort to drinking to restore mana as a hunter. Beastmaster set 6 piece has Normal ranged attacks 4% chance of restoring 200 mana. that is insane for classic hunters.
@@mercurio822 Oh I totally agree. I did very good damage in raids doing this too. I was just laughing because the video goes into very complicated ways to maximize DPS potential, and really the basic "Burn mana, FD, drink, repeat" was good enough. I definitely never went as deep as this video goes, and raided everything besides naxx in vanilla. Great resource though, perhaps I will try some of it.
@@chuckchuckerson5364 i did 6 bosses in naxx. but TBC was only a few months away and all of the guild didnt feel like naxx was worth the effort needed. i did clear everything ells and had my full T2. didnt need anything ells and naxx gears was riddiculus OP. good thing it only had 3 months ingame before it became useless.
Shame that hunters were crap back in the days... and iam saying this as old hunter who cleared all content except Kel'Thuzad (not enough time till TBC poped out). I would roll warrior / rogue or mage now for sure...
Nice job man! I can tell I lot of effort went into this.
This is amazing! Do you have plans to do one of these for other classes as well? I would love a Warrior one :)
Shaman next, Especially for the unconventional shamans! No this is not a troll request! I do plan to shaman tank in classic, no not in raids, but possible off or add tank in raids.
Hunters lucky af.. Haha thanks for undergoing this hell of a video. Even though I play mage i can appreciate its existence. Keep up the good work!
right off the bat i heard devilsaur mafia.. i can garuntee the pvp diehards are going to farm these so called mafia people for honor in between q times. and will most likely end up as paid mercs. sorry "top tier parsers"
Do you plan to be making more videos like this, or just for hunter? You mentioned that it took a really long time to make, and 200 hours for each class seems intense. lol
Kargoz, this guide is absolutely incredible. Thank you and all the contributors.
Have to ask, why is the 2 handed boe sword "Warmonger" never listed for pre raid bis? 3% hit on a 2 hander as a boe sounds amazing all around. Using your stat weights for it, that 3% would equal 90 ap. Not to mention with devilsaur you'd be at 5% hit with just 3 items opening up slots for more crit.
I'll admit I haven't done the math but it seems far too good to pass up. Thoughts?
Edit: Forgot about Voone's Vice Grips as well. 2% hit on gloves for a quest item. Never seen in any BiS list either. So with a BoE sword, one quest item and 3 talent points you are at 8% hit. Ultra easy to obtain, and you can itemize the other slots accordingly
+1 for Warmonger. I used Warmonger to maintain hitcap for Huhuran while in max NR soak gear. I figured it made more sense to spend 30-50 gold for 3% hit vs making ZG enchants for the NR set. So if you end up picking it up for prebis make sure to bank it! Could be useful later.
Dude you've gotta slow down or stop drinking so much coffee or something. I love your content but it's so hard to concentrate when you smack your lips every 45seconds.
31:25 Anybody knows if I still need 9% hit chance when I'm a troll hunter using a bow ?
Just 4 the bow skill will make up the other 5%
Loving the atmosphere in your videos, keep up the top notch content man!
Do warlock next this was a great video
I love your content and i'm super grateful for it but, I have to ask; Do you chew gum when you make these videos? you constantly stop talking to loudly swallow and once you notice it, it's super fucking annoying. Talk slower maybe?
Glorious. You should colaborate/peer pressure other guys like Frostmadus to do one for each class. (their mains) I couldn't ask you to personally do one for each; I mean if you did, that'd be fucking nuts but yeah it would take a lot of time!
Damn bro whata beast, I'm going to be playing a Hunter and a Warrior in classic so this will be super handy sir.
Great guide kargos! Right now now i'm leveling a hunter on turtle wow. They just released a new patch and added a new ability called true shot. Anyway great content. You and hamstwheel are my go to wow channels.
I'll probably run a hunter for their versatility and utility, but I also like classic priests. I'd love to see a similar guide on them!
The effort put in this video in insane huge huge respect for you dedication
Wish i could like the vid more than once
Great guide! Thanks for putting it together and walking us through it, really gave me a good idea of what to expect if I wanna be a pro hunter in classic :)
JESUS CHRIST his guides are online again!!! what a time to be alive, Kargoz the GOAT
Kargoz, this is a great guide you've put together! I can tell a lot of work has gone into it. My first character was a hunter, and it's the class I've always played the most ever since Vanilla. This will be a great help to me when Classic comes out.
Think you got some heartburn. jk, amazing video dude
Had to pause it 30 min. In to tell you, that this is awesome! No nonsense, just pure awesome data and info
Too in-depth for me but I mad-respect the effort.
First off, phenomenal guide! However: It seemed a bit strange to me that you delved into advanced mechanics like min/maxed damage rotation and gear / trinket swapping before touching the talent build section. In my mind the talent build is the most basic thing everything else is built on and i would have set it after the "The Hunter Role" part.
To put it into perspective of where i'm coming from: I never played vanilla hunter before, so there was nothing on this guide i already knew beforehand.
The whole damage rotation / gear swapping section would have been more easily digestible for a hunter illiterate like me if the talent build section came before the rest.
It's a nitpicky argument since i know the guide as a whole is designed to be a long term read-along and reference, but still wanted to point it out.
Regardless, it was a pleasure to watch and really makes me want to delve deep into hunter once Vanilla officially releases. I'll definitely look out for more of your guides in the future and i really appreciate the amount of hard work you put into this. Liked and subbed.
he already did a hunter guide that goes into this basic information u seek.
Jesus dude you delivered some work on that
Actual
next level content man, this is so insanely appreciated even to me as an old Vanilla vet from live. THANK YOU!!!
Are you planning on doing a guide for every class? I understand these take a long ass time just wanted to know what your thoughts are on this idea :)
Yes all 9 will be released by the time KT is killed on classic servers : )
Very nice visuals - well done guide!
Fantastic guide, work, and explanation. I'll be utilizing this as a former Vanilla hunter. I was a noob back then and I progressed like every one else over the years. It will be interesting to back and play a vanilla hunter with better skill and with things like this better intel! Great job to everyone involved. Thanks man.
this is fantastic, one thing i would like to see is a more in depth look at how pets scale with your character's stats and talents
I was set on playing a warlock but after this I cant decide..
Cheers from Greece man. Thank you for this !
too many hunters, need more druids warlocks mages shamans paladins and priests
This guide is simply amazing. Made with a lot of love and so so detailed. Great video!
dude. you just did everything. insane guide with pretty much everything ill ever need.
also you just helped me to finally make my decision on what class to pick in classic. it was between druid (my old main back in the days), mage or hunter.
that was so much work and its so fing apreciated. thank you.
One question:
It is always said hunter falls off a cliff in lategame past t2 and does not scale as well as the other classes.
Could you please comment on that?
Thank you.
awsome video m8.Just a tip for a next video.You could cover hunter macros which are super important.
So much thought/work went into this, truly amazing!
Love your guides dude but can you drink more water before recording your videos?
was gonna say wolf pets the shit.. you can weeve its howl into your aimed shot.
43 minutes into this guide starting to think i'm familiar with most of this and i see that lightning breath has a ONE HUNDRED yard range what
Love your content! live streams and everything.
great work
Are you going to do these for every Class dude? At least Lock as well... You know you want to
Great video. Think you have pushed me into rolling hunter again
Wouldn't Bone Slicing Hatchets be much better than Dal' Rends? Has an absolutely insane amount of agility between both especially with the enchants on both it comes out to 56 agility 10 stamina.
This reminds me of my university lectures. Especially towards the end when you were saying "we are nearly there now guys". Really nice job.
Warmonger is a great weapon alternative and its BoE. 3% hit on a 2h is great if you're lacking.
If you aren’t having luck with rolls on Truestrike Shoulders, a similar itemized alternative is available: Wyrmhide Spaulders. It’s a BRD quest reward : shoulders with 2% hit. Keep trying for Truestrike however, the 24AP is significant.
@Seren AP is Attack Power, which is everything
Do mage Next
Loving this 5 years later, cheers!
Glad to hear, thanks for being here!
Peacemaker polearm from Undead Strat has 56+ attack power plus 1% crit. Better than Dal'rends.
Yea i've noticed that these guides dont necessarily show the absolute best, just really good.
insane guide man, great job!
Hell yeah, man. Good work on this. I now know exactly why Hunters are considered to have such a high skill ceiling.
This is such an amazing video, you by far make the best wow vanilla guides, I'm so grateful to you and your dedication it helped me ALOT
your swallowing every few seconds as you talk is very distracting and annoying! drink some damn water! XD otherwise very informational and informative.
There we go buddy. Was a real joy working on this with you and all the other hunter nerds. :D Cheers!