Alan Wake 2 Ending Analysis
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2024
- Alan Wake 2 Ending Analysis
Hello Everyone!
Alan Wake 2 has come and we have a load more to discuss. For the last thirteen years I have questioned if stories told can affect the past. I didn't realize until playing Alan Wake 2 that this detail would be the catalyst to explain so much of the Remedy Connected Universe.
After taking a while to stop and chew on the story and ending of Alan Wake I think I've finally settled my thoughts on what exactly happened. More specifically WHY the story was written the way it was. The purpose of the story was accomplished a goal that I feel went largely over looked. In this video I hope to present what that purpose was.
Please feel free to have free discussion in the comments section below.
Enjoy!
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![Alan Wake | Two Thomas Zanes? [Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_sOsMK25MZ8/mqdefault.jpg)
![Alan Wake | Two Thomas Zanes? [Theory]](/img/tr.png)
Well done...
Man it's still hard to hear James McCaffrey voice, knowing we will never hear it again.
That's my biggest concern about the dlcs and the Max Payne remakes
"a man's a man but with a tool makes two, Tom." -Ahti
That final scene with Zane when he “wakes up” from the gunshot really threw me while I was playing 😂
I wonder how many people just left the room and didn’t see him wake up from the gunshot. That scene also had me fuuucked up lol
Anyone notice it Tom kinda alludes to how Alan woke up from a gunshot to the head ?
"What the Fuck?!"
Are you hinting at the idea that the retconned Zane is actually a further fallen / stuck version of Alan? Or that Zane is the creation of the further fallen / stuck Alan. A different attempt to escape and get revenge on the ascended version is actually a good idea for the future. But we are still missing context. We do not know the night springs stories that had been written before, and their consequences, and there is another story to be told about the dark presence / shadow in the Lakehouse DLC. This is not over yet.
Great video, as always! Keep it up.
I see that as a distinct possibility. I was more focused on the Labyrinth of Me words he was speaking at the time. But I am currently doing some research on Zane so who knows what else will come from that.
@@GamingUniversityUoG I'm wondering if this means that we are headed toward a 'Counsel of Kangs' situation with Alan. Given your interpretation, it seems that the spiral continues *past* the bullet of light, where the Alans-in-Return always end up breaching it at the end. That solves the paradox of "Yes you do, and no you don't". In the non-Final Draft game, Alan-in-Return sees Alice's message and then awakens at the beginning of the next... 'coil' let's say, with the knowledge that it's a Spiral, and not a Loop. One Alan being trapped forever in Return would make it a Loop, but if the Spiral always ends with Alan-in-Return either going 'up' past the bullet of light or 'down' further into the Dark Place, it seems that there are many many Alans Wake, which are alluded to in Zane's video.
That's an interesting idea. If one thing is certain about Zane, it's that he's been retconned and rewritten a few too many times.
@@GamingUniversityUoG if you take the W and K of Wake and move forward 3 letters in the alphabet, you get Z and N. Zane
"... Someone else to dream me free..." - "... The dark presence was born..."
I think we're basically on the same page here, but I don't necessarily tthink there are 2 Alans. That said:
The retcon is changing a cycle of re-birth for the dark presence that had perpetuated between new creators who visit the dark place over time, to a birth and binding of the dark presence from/to Alan... In essence, tightening the spiral to a point - and not to destroy, per se (because the dark presence would just find a way to find someone new once Alan "left") - again, more so to bind... Incorporate the dark presence in himself in such a way to remove the possibilty of another host - the multiple cycles Alan went through, the ritual necessary to ensure the dark presence does not gain dominant agency over his body/consciousness.
The moment you mentioned "Wes Craven's New Nightmare" I understood everything.
Is amazing.
On a playthrough of Alan Wake 1 I watched I compared it to New Nightmare.
No joke as I was writing this I almost had a whole section on New Nightmare. Decided to make it part of the Book Club instead. Watched it like 3 times since then lol. I love the Elm Street franchise and the 7th one is a treat.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Not gonna lie: You mentioned "New Nightmare" and my brain made a *click". Then I begun to jump like a madman, screaming "HE IS RIGHT! IS THE SAME PRINCIPLE! THE LOOP! THE TRAP!" xD
I'm a massive Nightmare of Elm Street fan and this video made my day. Thank you 👍
Omg, now Zane's words feel even more scary
Well, being forever trapped, is kinda a permanent consequence. You may not get a permadeath, but there are fates worse than death.
As for the "retcon" of the dark presence, the entity itself is just "playing" a role of alans script, like a lot of the characters through the story. In the dark presences cases, it got tricked by Alan.
In order to get the good ending we needed consequences for the heroes right.
I think this analysis makes perfect sense to describe the ending. Alan trapped the Dark Presence by trapping part of himself in a loop by giving the Dark Presence a definition, somewhere it began and ended. It also made me question why the "rules changed", and I'm assuming that it's because the writer(s) changed? Tom the Poet supposedly wrote the Clicker into existence as a tool/weapon to help Alan, and then Alan altered the Clicker's function as a tool to suit the story's needs.
Also, it does seem possible that Tom the Filmmaker is going to be a new villain. I just realized that Tom's work frequently foreshadows things that Alan actually ends up doing, like the "Tom's Resurrection" scene and the "Bullet of Light" scenes. Even some parts of Yoton Yo kind of speak of it from another angle, such as "he returns and in turn, you are locked in the room" potentially being a hint towards what happens to the Dark Presence/Scratch. Tom also seems to be one of the few who can navigate the Dark Place flawlessly, suggesting he knows it quite well. (Tom is usually the one giving Alan navigational advice, but he also seems to find Tim and Darling easily, even with the latter in a black void) I've heard some theories that Tom the Filmmaker is the Mr. Scratch from American Nightmare too, because he acts very similar and the same song plays during the acid trip sequence.
Ngl, I was curious though a little apprehensive about the idea of two Alans until you reminded me that Zane exists as this constant mystery... Incredible video, as usual, thanks for covering this universe like no one else!
I mean we see two Alan's in this game already. One shoots himself. Also in the dlcs when there is one in the cabin and one running around.
@@GamingUniversityUoG but wait , these 2 Alans where one is in the cabin and other running around isn't simultaneously happening, it's just one REAL writer and the other is the story's protagonist, like in the first game Alan wrote a lot of Departure (including his own backdoor out of jagger's editing prison) BUT we took the control of the protagonist Alan that's on his way was seeing videos of the writer figuring what to write (which is always the REAL part), like in AW2 we play with an ALAN that's also the protagonist while seeing the writer's journey videos (about him deciding not to write, getting the importance of initiation, figuring that time working in spirals implies the existence of an ascended version of him "he used that to make the prison perfect and escape"). I'm buying the 2 Alans ascension ending with an ongoing conflict in the prison (as we've already seen a glimpse of it) but that's the first TWO ALANS we had since the first game imo, the other instances were a real writer and a fictional protagonist, even in Initiation which for me works as a real big realization journey for Alan, where he figures out that he's Scratch with DP in him (yes that was artistically realized by a scene were he shoots himself yet it's just a metaphor for him knowing the truth).
Love all your Content ❤
Fantastic edit at the end. “And cut!” *chefs kiss*
Haha yeah I thought it was a fun way to conclude
The way the Clicker works in AW2, how it allows a conscious retcon/alteration in the story, I wish the Koskala brothers were just a bit more self aware _(perhaps thanks to some sweet Anderson moonshine)_ so that they had the awareness to use the Clicker in the heart of the Taken to rewrite their entire possession by the Dark Presence. It would be so much more satisfying to simultaneously destroy a Taken and restore the person they would have been if they had never been taken over. Perhaps that would have given the Cult too much power in their fight but a great victory/happy ending bought with great struggle can be narratively satisfying too.
That actually would be an interesting method. They would need a new ritual. A poem to go along with their use of the Clicker which discusses the restoration of a person. Would be really cool if we saw that
@@GamingUniversityUoG I imagine that the Cult would manufacture artefacts of the Taken's "fixed" lives, much like how that super condescending FBC researcher created simplistic stories in order to produce a specific result when they were combined with a doll ritual. This would limit the Cult's ability to amass power and members because it would require them to know who each Taken were and what their lives would likely be if they had never gotten possessed. In effect it would allow them to reclaim most members but few strangers.
7:16 I think Alan wrote an origin for The Dark Presence so it could be beaten. Whereas before no one knew what it was or where it came from.
Exactly. By giving it a history and backstory it gives you more options. rather than some eldritch entity that can never be caught.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Like how a villain or monster is less scary when you reveal their past.
@@Xehanort10 And the "dark" presence is dark because it comes out of the unknown. By defining it, Alan has stolen it's power.
Alan is doing the same thing to the Dark Place itself too, and now there are locations there, that have come from the mind of the artists, like Alan's New York and Zane's theater.
But the Dark Place is infinite, and it's potential limitless.
I'm hoping we get some outlandish scifi stuff in the Night Spings DLC.
@@arlom5132Yup, and it’s telling that when Saga ends up in the Dark Place, she sees it identically as Alan does (albeit with different lighting and generally less chaos, lol), down to the street names, the billboards, and the buildings. Alan spent a lot of time defining the Dark Presence *and* the Dark Place, to the point that even the changes he made within the Dark Place remained permanent. Which simply extends the point that Alan’s writing finally paid off, he was able to use the Shadow’s own rules against it and create something solid.
Just finished the game 2 days ago and was slightly confused of the ending, I only understood it partially but I was even more confused when I noticed you haven't made a video explaining it, I'm glad you finally got around to do it
"Must you humans name everything? Nothing's real to you 'til you've named it, given it limits."
"It took courage to climb into that machine every night, not knowing if I'd be the man in the box, or the Prestige." ... "The audience knows the truth: the world is simple, miserable, solid all the way through. But if you can fool them, even for a second, then you can make them wonder."
"Why do we tell stories? To try to make sense of a world that can be terrifying and enormous. ...I don't know that your story will long be known, I don't know who will remain to tell it, but it did happen, and it did matter."
Just a few lines that ran through my head while watching this.
Thank you!
Even if, when you mentioned the Ascended Alan being treated as a Warden, I expected to see the "Archon/Demiurge/Demon" video from the beginning of NG+ :D
Unironically my favourite scene of the game!
The fact he mentioned a bunch of Gnostic philosophy out of nowhere was a definite clue in to what they were thinking.
Glad you finally analyzed the ending!
Took long enough right.
I just finished Alan Wake 2 last night. I've been waiting for quite a while to catch up on your videos. Good to see you're still making great content. I haven't played The Final Draft yet, but knowing where it's headed makes me excited to get into it again.
I finished the Final Draft yesterday, and just now I've realized what was Wake's real sacrifice in the ending. He did exactly the opposite of what Scratch wanted, by sacrificing his ego, but not just in letting Saga to be a co-author. He says something along the lines: I know how we save Casey - he is a real person I used for my writing, not a character, so Scratch can't use him. I'm not sure if this is the moment when "real world" Casey is actually created, but this is the moment when Alan sacrifices his authorship for his most known and beloved character that brought him fame and money. This way, he literally defeats Scratch inside himself - his egotistic impulses that the Dark Presence was using. And to finalize this victory, he was lacking one last thing - acknowledging Alice and her love for him as a driving force for getting out, so - again - giving credit to another person for what could be seen as his own accomplishment.
I watched this a few times, first off, excellent video as always. At the end it seems like you are hinting at something that I have theorized about, that Zane featured in AW2 is a manifestation created by Alan, which, as art always reflects the artist, is a version of himself. I'm interested to see if you explore this more in a future video and how our theories align
One aspect of this analysis that isn’t necessarily necessary for the point, but helps drive home the themes of the game is Alan literally writing in different artists and pieces of art made by those artists to help influence him in writing the epilogue. He couldn’t write the epilogue he had in mind into the original script but he figured out a cheat. All the poems left by old zane, the Alex Casey echoes that give hints, Alice’s photography and misdirection, the old gods of Asgard and their music, even fucking rewriting ahti to have a hinted backstory of being a singer and his work collaborating with Thomas Zane the filmmaker, and filmmaker Zane’s work as well, AND Mr. Door and his talk show. All things hinting at the epilogue he originally intended but due to the narrative it couldn’t be written in or the dark presence wouldn’t take the bait and Alan couldn’t have the memory of it since he already was written to have memory problems since him having the security of an ending that works wouldn’t have the story stick. It’s fucking brilliant. The Alan in the writers room before the entire plot of the game knew exactly what he was doing. All this and people still say Alan a bad writer.
holy shit i love this channel so much, it’s like batman arkham videos of the remedy universe 😭
Haha thank you!
This ks awesome! I love your theories on Alan Wake 2
Thanks dude!
Thank you once again! Also New Nightmares...my fave can't wait to hear ya speak on it
Great video! Your explanation reminds me a lot of another game's ending, SOMA.
Dude Soma is awesome. Yeah I can see that too
It took you a long while to make this video, I do not know how you resisted the urge.
Mostly it came down to taking this long to settle my thoughts on it
@@GamingUniversityUoG I couldn't do that, I know that because I gushed and speculated _(to an obnoxious degree)_ to my friend the moment after I finished.
I think of The Dark Presence like this. Alan Wake,using his Writings, vesseled Himself. If you have Played Kingdom Hearts, think of the Way Ansem, Seeker of Darkness or the Ancient Darkness in General, become a Shadow specific to their Vessel when they possess them. Therefore, The Darkness goes from non-specific to specific to the person they are attached to, and destroying or purifying the Vessel undoes at least that aspect of Them.
Another splendid video.
We can only wonder what awaits us next.
Content-wise as great as ever but man THIS EDITING WAS SUBLIME it just keeps getting better
I wish I'd kept the clip, but there was a moment when I used the flashlight on the shadows that Alan has to fight, the darkness burns away, and if you freeze frame it correctly, it's actually Alan Wake's character model. I did this on complete accident once, but wasn't able to replicate it again. (Didn't try all that hard, might go back and give it another go). I do wonder if Alan's constant trying over and over is part of the "thousands" mentioned towards the end of the video, and the shadows he has to fight are actually just previous versions of himself. It would check out that he has to fight himself to get over his own ego (as I believe he admitted was one of the worst parts of himself).
These enemies are called Fadeouts. And yes the words they say are clips from Alan speaking in the writers room. I find it very likely these are former versions of himself in the loop. Or some other aspect of him.
@@GamingUniversityUoGLends more evidence to your "Multiple Alans" theory pretty heavily, I'd say!
@GamingUniversityUoG On the off chance you find this helpful at all, happened to find the clip while I was doing some cleanup. If you hit the pause button at the right time, it sure looks like Alan on Alan violence. www.twitch.tv/nickmakesnoise/clip/ChillySweetPotatoCoolStoryBob-lNRo702YbQucX346
LET'S LEARN! 😇
Haha well hello there!
Gonna go ahead and say it would be criminal not to nod to you in the Remedy verse somehow in future games. Your analysis are all so thorough and digestible. Also, it wouldn't be a stretch to think an AWE could occur on UA-cam, especially one as meta as this!
I really enjoy these videos! It’s a shame so few channels deep dive into the RCU. I only know of you and Hidden Machine.
I know Max Derrat has done a few as well. I'd check them out if you haven't
Amazing video, as always! I cant wait for your new take on Zane!
I wouldn't say I KNOW what's up with Zane but I have some new thoughts for sure.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Is Zane the looped Alan? Is the Alan who completes the Hero's Journey, Alan's Self, and the Alan which stays behind is Alan's Shadow? Hence is the reason why Ahti always calls Alan by the name "Tom" because the character we play is Alan's Shadow?
Especially since Tom Zane wasn't voiced by McCaffrey this time around (and sadly, never will be again) that would seem to indicate that Tom Zane-II is different from Tom Zane-I. And it's probably significant that a McCaffrey-voiced character guided Alan in the first game, and also in this second one -- first as Zane, second as Casey.
fantastic analysis as always. I really can't wait to see the ending of Zane's Story.
Nothing escapes a black hole. However if we go by the holographic principle if you spiral into a black hole, at the event horizon your data, gets copied on the surface. This might the be copy of you which walks away while the other is stuck on the far side of the mirror forever.
”In the end, it's never just the light you need
When balance slays the demon, you'll find peace
In the end, it's never just the dark you seek
When balance slays the demon, you'll find peace
Find the peace
”
Amazing vid. That edit of mr scratch at 2:26 save that and always use it. I wish you could reuse the ending as well but it wouldnt always work. This was a really good one.
The Darkness is like an Ocean it never ends it just keeps Flowing and like a River it can go in many different Directions coming to many different Places and pool becoming a new Lake right....Max.
Hehe it would be cool if that was the ending and showed Max from Max Payne one at The End of that game with Max looking in to a Dark Alley saying whos there and Mr Scarch looking like Alan came out of The Dark Smiling.
Respect and keep up the epic work.
Love it. The contradictions make sense in the stories
Hard to wrap our heads around but that's half the fun
@@GamingUniversityUoG And it really helps knowing that the people at Remedy actually seem to _care_. From the first scene of Alan Wake they've been explaining the rules they're going to play by. No cheap explanations. No dei ex machinae. Alan calling himself out as being his own deus ex machina makes sense within the nightmare dream logic of the Dark Place in particular, but within its world shared with Control more generally.
After all, consider the commonplace office announcements in Control that are surreal to the point of comedy: the Oldest House has no windows, and if you see a window to blindfold yourself and proceed to the nearest shelter -- and you will be excused for the dress code violation; being caught in a House Shift is not grounds for overtime; if you find your office or its contents changed, speak to yourself in a reassuring tone so as to calm to the room down; Pink documents must be incinerated or they could cause bodily harm; and so on. There are many times when the Bureau kind of reminds me of the occult version of Aperture Science in a way that belies the horror of what the FBC deals with on a daily basis.
So it clicked for me the other day that the Clicker is thematically still doing the same thing: Bringing light to darkness, which is how Alan describes the process of making a new reality.
I'm a huge fan of your videos, Dean, so I don't want my notes to seem like an attempt to debunk your opinion. I'll just share my perspective.
1. American Nightmare explains to us that the prime reason why Alan wrote the episode Return is to hunt Mr. Scratch. And the writer succeeded in permanently burning this demon. Escape was written into this story and didn't work, but it was a secondary goal.
Mr. Scratch from the new game is the same fictional character within the Hero's Journey's continuity, but "played" by a different entity, the Dark Presence. The entity from American Nightmare "played" Mr. Scratch in Departure, but departed from this "role" of the Jungian shadow due to a recursive loop with dark gossip, so this "actor" was replaced.
2. I think the Scratching Hag was referring to Thomas Zane when she talked about Alan's first work of art. She called Alan Tom, like the old gods. Cynthia from the novelization mentioned that Wake looks a lot like Zane as well.
3. The Dark Presence has always been in a dark place, unlike Zane. Sam Lake spoke about this in response to the question whether the writer created this entity.
When Saga fired, the Bullet of Light blew the Dark Presence out of Alan, but the Dark Presence regenerated from its remains. I think this line implies an explanation of why the Dark Presence existed between drafts. The darkness itself came from the stain that the Scratching Hag left when she touched the writer. Cynthia explained it, as did the Andersons in the new game.
Nevertheless, despite the notes above, your video gave me a lot of food for thought, and I enjoyed watching it. Thank you again.
can you share the video where Sam speaks to whether the writer created the Dark Presence?
@@bigben1121 Sam answered questions from fans on Reddit, and The Sudden Stop fan site saved those answers. I tried to send you a link, but UA-cam deleted my attempts.
@ruslanchernikov650 I'll do some digging thanks for the reply!
I think the Alan that continues the loop is really just the character in the story of Return. Whereas the Alan that escapes is like the actor that played that character. The movie ended, and so the actor gets to walk away. Like Zane at the end of his scene in the chair. But as the story loops, the characters remain trapped, like character Alan and Alex Casey. Like a film left to repeat indefinitely on its own. The Dark Presence wears many faces, but that's all it can be; a character. It doesn't exist outside of any work of art it inhabits. It played the role of Barbara in both Zane's film and Alan's book Departure, and it played the role of Scratch in American Nightmare and Alan Wake 2. So as Alan, Zane and even Sam Lake are able to walk away from the story after it's conclusion, the Dark Presence cannot. It holds no presence outside of the story.
Perfect as always dude
Thank you thank you!
Now Zanes monologue makes sense
One of these days I'm back tracking to the poems that Samantha found and trying to find new nuggets of insight
To me, this is your best Alan Wake video to date! I can't congratulate you enough for your tremendous effort and thought process to put things in order! Bravo!👏
Generally speaking, I haven't understood how the loop cycle operates regarding Alan's section, and I hope that you could make me understand, perhaps.
The very first scene of the game ("Back to the beginning") shows Alan shot in the forehead with the bullet of light (by Saga?🤔)
The number of each draft changes in the plot board (draft 1, 2 and 3). With that in mind, it's safe to say that INITIATION is comprised by 3 separate subsequent drafts.
-DRAFT 1: Alan wakes and touches his forehead as if he has dreamed of being shot. He proceeds to Door's tv show (Late Night).
A few moments after mr. Door scene, Alan gets attacked and killed by Scratch/Dark Presence, as he can't get the door open.
He wakes up. But this time, inside the writer's room! He attempts to rewrite the scene.
This is when something very interesting happens: A speedrun montage of live action scenes plays out, which ends with Alan getting shot with the bullet of Light.
After that, Alan wakes up again in front of the tv monitor broadcasting Door's show. Only this time, Alan has written Alex Casey in the scene as well. The way I understand this addition is that Alan wanted to establish the character of Alex Casey in INITIATION, so that he could "assume the role of the detective" and, thus, go deeper in his investigation for the murder sites (places of inspiration that could grant him access to Parliament Tower, where the "RETURN" manuscript pages were to be found).
It's important to note that, Alan gets the flashlight and the stereotypical object of defense in every story, the gun, from a deceased Alex Casey. Casey is a sacrificial lamb so that Alan can get the tools he need in order to proceed.
Back to the concept of the loop, now.
Draft 1 ends with Alan visiting Parliament Tower, where he finds himself dead on the writing room, and he gets possessed by Scratch.
----------------------------------------------------
-Draft 2: Alan wakes in fear inside the writer's room, and he says: "The Dark Presence stopped me from escaping. I found the front-page of a novel called 'Returned' ".
Alan sits to write but gets shot by himself.
He wakes up in the writer's room again, and he says: "Scratch stopped me before I could finish my edits to the manuscript. I needed a new draft of initiation."
Again, a speedrun montage of live action scenes plays out and ends with Alan getting shot with the bullet of Light.
---------------------------------------------------
Draft 3: Alan wakes in front of the tv (Masks)
This draft ends with Alan shooting himself and realising that he was Scratch all along.
Conclusion:
-Draft 1 begins after Alan geting shot with the bullet of Light, and ends with Alan getting possessed by Scratch.
-Draft 2 begins after Alan getting possessed by Scratch, and ends with Alan getting shot with the bullet of Light.
-Draft 3 begins after Alan getting shot with the bullet of Light, and ends with Alan getting possessed by Scratch.
a) if this is indeed the repetitive sequence of events ,and b) if every time that Alan gets shot with the bullet of Light is by Saga, then I have three questions.
1) Regarding the aforementioned speedrun live action montage which plays right after Alan sat to write Alex Casey in Door's show: how Alan got shot by Saga, when in fact he hadn't even met her, up until this point? He sees her vision for the first time in the subway murder site (Casey).
2) the same question goes for Alice: if Alan learns about ascension after being shot with the bullet (Alice's consciousness) by Saga, then why does he appear to be unaware of this crucial information during the whole first playthrough?
3) If all these 3 initiation drafts comprise one complete loop cycle, why are shortened loops being interpolated within the whole loop? (by the term "interpolated" loops, I mean the short speedrun live action montage sequences which end with Alan shot with the bullet of Light)
I'm sorry If my comment is confusing, but I'm trying really hard to understand the repetitive motif of events😂 If only you could enlighten me please. Thank you for your time!
1. Because Time works differently in the Dark Place. As Alan says, ‘Time loops around, and yet it moves forward’, or in the Final Draft ending where he says ‘Time loops in the Dark Place. Every choice you make affects everything- that comes both before and after you make it, like it does when you change a detail in a story you’re writing.’
2. More or less the same answer as #1. The Shadow/the Dark Place makes Alan forget, or perhaps Alan wrote it that way so that he would forget. If there’s any self-awareness of his place in the story he’s written for himself to be a part of, the reality doesn’t manifest. And he can’t trick the Shadow to trap itself within the confines of the narrative because the Shadow is a part of him, if he’s aware of it then so is the Shadow and the trap can’t be set. The story was written so that Alan couldn’t be aware of Alice’s involvement or the trick wouldn’t play out as it’s intended.
3. Because like Alan says, ‘If Time is not a straight line, then there are loops beyond these loops- vast complex superstructures beyond what’s happening to me now, ahead of me. And I’m there as well, a version of me, something I have become- some elevated, enlightened version- an Archon, a Demiurge, a Demon of some sort- playing a secret game, building something- his past self a pawn to get him there- a deus ex machina pushing me there.’ This version of him is in the Writers Room, altering details in the story to facilitate the changes he needs for the story to make the Final Draft’s ending work to retcon reality.
@@xCarnageV1I'm not exaggerating when I say that this very well may be one of the best comments I have ever received by someone in a UA-cam comment section (if not the best!). Thank you so much for taking the time to answer all of my questions in detail one by one. Thanks to you, I have a better understanding of the concept of time in the Dark Place. I really appreciate it! 🙏 All the best! 👍
Babe wake up new gaming uni analyisis video dropped
Thanks man great video 😍👍
You got it!
Here we go
Buckle up!
In reference to the dark presence, I think Barbara was just a vessel for the presence the same way Alan was. It leaves Alan and goes into Alex, Alan said that Alex wasn’t a suitable host but that’s only because Alex didn’t have anybody in his love life. Barbara had Thomas Zane, Alan wake had Alice. The dark presence finally gets destroyed by the bullet of light which is Alice. Alan thanks her for her love and says love is strange. I think the dark presence was created by hate and then fully realized love destroyed it.
Did you Notice that Scratch Casey is wearing the same outfit as Mr. Scratch from American nightmare? And if you squint, almost the exact same slick backed hair style too, difference being the length.
These ideas also seem to rhyme with the time loop present in the Legacy of Kain series, specifically what happens with Raziel and his decision to enter the Reaver of his own volition. In realizing he is the soul-stealing entity within the sword, Raziel has made peace with his fate and has saved himself from the insanity said to torment the entity within the Soul Reaver.
Never seen or played Legacy of Kain. I have heard nothing but good things about it
Tom is Alan... HE'S THE FUTURE VERSION OF ALAN WHO IS FOREVER TRAPPED INSIDE THE DARKNESS GOING MORE AND MORE INSANE.
"You don't need to tell me this is a horror story".
Actually, there is a permanent "Over" state, but it is based on Writer Alan (or Us) giving up permanently. If we stop Playing, this means Alan the Writer stops sending Character Alan in. But the Dark Presence is waiting for that to happen, for our Light to go away. A hole to be filled.
Im lore hunting alan wake right now 🤣 and this analysis is great! Is that why Alan at the end of final draft says he isnt the master of two worlds but now many?
It's a cool turn of phrase. Master of two worlds relates to the heroes Journey. One of the final stages after the hero crosses the return threshold back to the Ordinary world. But in this context infinite worlds can be made through the dark place so yes. Many worlds
The Dark Presence existing before Alan but being born from Alan kind of reminds me of Warhammer 40K's Slaanesh. A God that was born from the lust of the Eldar, but that existed before the Eldar were even a thing. So, similar to the Dark Presence, we wonder if it was Slaanesh that drove the Eldar into lust in the first place so that she can be born. It's that cyclical nature that we all know and love in fiction.
Hello I love your Alan Wake videos so much! I was wondering if you were aware that Alan is in Dead by Daylight? He has lore and story there that ties into The Dark Place and Night Springs in a cool way.
Yeah I've heard that they are considering his involvement a Night Springs episode. I fully plan on continuing the playlist after the DLC for AW2 comes out. Might include a DBD episode.
This is my interpretation of the ending:
Every loop in which Alan finishes the story having any doubts or anxiety about whether his ending was good enough allows the Dark Presence to be born when he gets shot with the Bullet of Light. These are “the remains” from which the Dark Presence is born.
Thus the loop is restarted because in the Dark Place time doesn’t exist so the Dark Presence looks for an older version of Alan to manipulate and influence, starting the loop again.
When Alan finally realizes that Alice is alive and helping him, then he regains hope and this hope finally ends up translating into confidence in his own writing and ending, which means that he now lacks the anxiety and doubts that gave birth to the Dark Presence.
So, when he gets shot in the final draft the Dark Presence is finally killed as Alan was lacking the anxiety and doubts (the small part of himself) that would have allowed the Dark Presence to be born again.
As the Dark Presence finally dies and is unable to be born again then we reach the end of the spiral, there is no Dark Presence anymore to use an older version of Alan and restart the loop. So Alan is finally able to move on and leave the dark place for good.
So i believe ive found something out,
I've been looking everywhere I can think of, but I can't find anyone else who sees the eerie connection between the world and themes of Alan Wake/ Control & the poetry of Dylan Thomas?
The name itself, on top of him being a poet, should start setting off alarms in my opinion.
At this point, I don't believe that Sam Lake does anything by coincidence.
Thomas's most famous poem "Do not go Gently into that Good Night" seems to directly correlate with the transcript page that describes when Odin lost his eye in AW2.
The final 3 stanza of "There was a Savior" seems to directly correlate the 3 Overlap bosses in AW2.
There are a lot more than just those as well. A significant chunk of his work seems to be the inspiration for the Alan Wake portion of the RCU.
I would love to see you dive into this further, I really think this is something
Zane's last line was a great detail I forgot about. We still don't understand how the loops affect him. If they make a 3rd game, he could be the main enemy. Plus we did see he and Dr. Darling have met. There is no telling what they will be able to do together.
Yes you will and no you won't is referring to him escaping and then going back because of Casey and saga.
Oh yeah, "you choose" Basically means in his murder jacket chapter alan has a choice to stay in the real world or going back again to deerfest dark presence edition to stop scratch.
That's the plain meaning, yes.
There's always a deeper, esoteric meaning though.
"Im my own deus ex machina?" - from where i seing it, Alan managed to get out from the Dark Pace, when we experiencing the 1st playthrou. We playing al 2nd Alan is trying to escape 1st Alan sending hints to his previous versions as they trying to rewrite the story. (Alan 1 sending hints to Alan 2, Alan 2 to Alan 3 and so on...)
"It's not a loop, its a spiral" every previous versions of Alan Wake experiencing the same path, until they failing and trying to rewrite the story. The begining of spiral - 1st version of the story, the end of spiral - escaping from the Dark Place. That is how Dark Presence is caught. It never escapes the Dark Place, becouse there are always Alan Wake, who just starts to write the story.
"Yes you will, and no you don't" is suppotring this... When 2nd Alan Wake escapes th Dark Place, he will experience every step that 1st did (timeline is linear and can't be changed (like in Quantum Break when Paul Serene create 2 versions of himself, but 2nd is few minutes older and already had that conversation - time is continue to go forward)) Our playeble version of Alan just neded one more loop, to understant that this is not a loop, but spiral.
My thoughts after finishing this game were essentially “wow Sam Lake must’ve watched True Detective sometime between the first game and this and REALLY liked that ‘time is a flat circle’ theme”
I mean shit, they even use the same cult spiral symbol and the same antler wearing cultists. If the first game feels like a love letter to Twin Peaks and Stephen King then the sequel extends its thanks to the shows True Detective and Hannibal. Honestly someone should do a video on the apparent influences on Alan Wake series, showcasing what they lift from other sources and recontextualize them.
But the Dark Presence was already a prisoner of the story. That was established in the first Alan Wake. For all the hand wringing about Alan's responsibility for the lives lost/ruined by the events of Departure, it was clear then that the story shackled the Dark Presence, made it adhere to the rules of the story as well, thus making a Lovecraftian nightmare... managable. Defeatable.
This (around 9:53) sounds a bit like the Quantum Suicide / Quantum Immortality episode of Night Springs, which I think the first one we come across.
Didn't think of it in those terms but yeah technically that episode sums it up well.
The protagonist can live on after the ending, but people will be able to play the game (re-tell the story) over and over again in the future so it makes sense that it is both free and a prisoner of the story.
This really does make sense to me 🤗 And I am suuuuper curious to see what mahem Zane en Darling can get up to in the dark place 😅
great video
thank you
That's surprisingly coherent. Well done.
I'm particularly fascinated by the difference between the Dark Presence and the Dark Place. In the first game, I kinda took it as given that the Dark Place was just "the domain of the Dark Presence." It's prison was a "dark place" **because** it was trapped there.
But now, that's clearly not the case. The Dark Presence is a denizen of the Dark Place, but clearly not its ruler.
Most interesting to me is that while the Dark Presence is explicitly malevolent, the Dark Place seems to be neutral. Dangerous, but not evil, like an ocean.
To me, it's reminiscent of how, biblically, the devil walks about on earth, and will be cast into hell in the apocalypse, but thanks to Milton's rubbish Bible fanfic, pop culture thinks of the devil as the ruler of hell.
One thing I'm wondering. When Alan returns to Bright Falls after escaping from the lake. When he enters the portal that Scratch left in the town, did he return to the Dark Place? Or is he still in the real world but the town has gotten a new "localized" reality? When he and Saga stands in the Writer's Room, are they still in the Valhalla nursing home in the real world? Personally, I think they are. Otherwise Saga probably wouldn't be able to call Logan on the phone.
Thoughts?
I almost feel like time isn’t a factor in this, but more fluid. In the same way an audience sees art as set in stone, the creator has many different ways in which things can and once did go. As with discarded drafts of a story, the events in those drafts have happened and still happen, but aren’t what we (the audience) see. In the same way the base game happened, we played it, it was “overwritten” by new game+, those events happened and didn’t happen, so it would be less divergent time lines or multiple universes and more instances or what ifs (not the marvel version), an author brainstorming character moments or retelling the story with different details. Kinda like learning about mythology, there isn’t one true version of the story or parallel realities where Zeus did different things, but just different versions. I can’t remember where it is, but I go back to an FBC file on “subjective reality” and forcing one’s perception of it onto others.
I think it was during (or after) AN that Alan gave the dark presence a backstory and bound it to the rules of a palpable being thag can be destroyed
I have one major question regarding the NG+ ending that I was hoping you, or someone here, may be able to shine some light on; When Saga makes the phone call to Logan she picks up and explains that she had a terrible nightmare, which at first seemed to me like a good ending, aka: the story is over and Logan is safe; everything returned to normal. However, one question really itches me, how is Saga able to make a phone call to the outside world from within the dark place? Almost makes it seem like she's not calling the real Logan, but a 'story' version of Logan that's been created within the dark place. Maybe it's possible that any time Alan writes anything within the dark place it's not actually affecting reality, but instead, creating pockets of a dream reality in the dark place.
Just something I've been thinking about. Maybe there's a more practical answer, but it's been bugging me.
Ok, so basically the ending takes place outside of the dark place. Saga escapes the dark place by entering ahti's puddle in the fountain and gets transported to the writer's room inside the valhalla nursing home where she meets with Alan, and Alan escaped the deerfest overlap of the dark place after he got the copy of Return (as indicated by the unnatural daylight turning back into night)
@@yiiiaaboyyy2161 I didn't even consider that they were in the Valhalla nursing home writer's room since it looks exactly like the Cauldron Lake/Dark Place writer's room. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks.
Agree to disagree, but the Clicker always did what it was said to do in AW2. Both instances of Alan using it in Departure make impossible and sudden changes to reality. Night cannot simply turn to Day, Alan can’t simply obliterate the Shadow with a hug. But the Clicker can brute force these changes.
Alan just took it a step further in AW2 and applied the Clicker to writing, I’d assume to imbue it with even more mystical power.
Great analysis! But how does the "master of many worlds" comes into play here? I doubt it's just "oh, there are now several of me"
Alan the Writer can now insert himself into other Worlds in the Remedyverse from the Void. It isn't just "other selves". It is other Characters. Other Stories.
it's not a bad theory, but I'm still going to pick and choose what bits I use for my own headcannon. Sure, he created the second scratch from himself with the bullet of light, the first one was created by zane when he dove deep, made his own world, and left his body behind. The original though predates everything, back to thought itself. That one is still trapped inside the caldera, and thus can still power further AWE's in the region.
Or so I view it.
In the long run, it will probably turn out to be not such a great idea to leave a "shadow" of yourself within the grasp of the dark presence.
Perhaps extradimensional entity A-010 "The Shadow" is so called because it is the amalgamation of many artists' Jungian Shadows.
What did the Alan that escaped lose once he trapped a "part" of himself in the Dark Place? What part was it? Will that do anything to the escapee Alan?
And also I wonder, what stops the imprisoned part of Alan from trying to escape again and again? Just like the part that escaped, I think so can the imprisoned part come up with a whole different plan of escape, and succeed.
What you said is true, it might go more insane and become a new villain that will try to get revenge on the escapee Alan. He might even go as far as to bring the Dark Presence alongside him during the escape, because he just won't care anymore about keeping it in the Dark Place anymore. I wonder if it means Alan will have to do something to fully integrate this "dark part" into himself and leave the Dark Place behind forever to have the Freedom to Live. This is a nice setup to the third game.
Man I loved this game and platinumed it but Sam Lake self inserted way too hard. Almost every chapter his face is everywhere Ive never seen it so drastic in a game lmao. Loved the ending hopefully we explore Door in new dlc.
I mean the first Max Payne game he was literally the main character. Showed up all throughout the sequel AW2, and had tiny references in QB. While I agree he was in this way more as different characters its not unheard of. Really it's Control that's the weird one where he wasn't showing up. Other than a mention of one of his variants. Samantha Wells.
Another mr scratch could been born but without it being the same person in its own way i just finished the game and i loved the twist with Wake and Scratch but i could kinda figure it out.
This reminded me of SOMA(Wont spoil great game if you enjoyed alan wake) a similar ending with only one difference alan wake ending for both alan their journey was not over but soma despite its similarities had one conclusion it was doomed in the end.
I love how i understood everything and still learned nothing
Is that a kingdom hearts reference?
@@GamingUniversityUoG yes it is haha, i thought nobody would get it xD
I’m sure this is a dumb question but does this have spoilers for final draft in it? I’m about half way through my ng+ playthrough and will need to come back to watch this afterwards if so.
Yes it has spoilers for New Game + Sorry for the late response
@@GamingUniversityUoG no worries! I appreciate you getting back to me! I love your work so I am definitely going to tune in once I have time to finish the Final Draft.
It's not a Lake it's an Ocean, It's not a loop it's a Spiral. What does a spiral do? it spirals out of control. Get the picture?
I am just sitting here wishing for a happy end ngl. It probably won't happen - but I still wish.
It isn't a retcon or a new backstory though.
The Dark Presence always existed because of those events.
Alan always created it, but he created it at the beginning and end of time. When it was created doesn't matter for it to have existed before Alan's first art.
It always existed before and after his art because of his art.
The Dark Presence was only at a different point in its story than we were during American Nightmare. A different point in the spiral.
It didn't get retconned at all here. Its birth was always The Bullet of Light.
It just doesn't matter when that happened.
What actually occurred was they prevented The Dark Presence from Retconning reality which is what it was doing.
I personally don't see it that way but I have heard that argument used. Dark Presence is an Actor that gets cast to play a role in stories. In one story its character has one history and in another its story plays another.
@@GamingUniversityUoG not sure I get that. The Actors and Characters you refer to IMO just appear to be the same individuals at different stages of the spiral.
Door tells us that armies are fighting for us. Alan in a panic attack basically gives away that he is a pawn being used by the ascended version of Alan.
Different distinct individuals don't fit with the spiral. Everyone is a character and actor, and they are writing each other's stories. Stories due to the Dark Place resonate to always have been. That is some of the very first info we learn. Causality doesn't exist. We see Saga and Alan do this.
Deerfest seems a pretty big clue to this. Those that have been overwritten aren't actors. They were real versions of the individuals. We know this because of Tor, Odin, Ahti.
IMO for actors to be distinguished in any meaningful way it would mean that The Dark Presence had to be using separate Actors. But we know it wasn't. We know it was directly infecting reality.
They wouldn't have The Dark Presence work under a completely different fundamental than the rest of The Spiral.
Nice!
Hope you enjoy!
WAIT- could this mean Tom the Filmmaker is a failed version of Alan? Or could this mean Tom Zane is a failed version of Thomas Zane who escaped the dark place into the pocket universe?
The other alan is jot trapped anymore he took the role of mr door, he now has the power of mr door. And what happened to mr door when he got his powers you ask? Let me tell you what jesse said on nightspring episode 3, Feed back loop killed all his versions and made hime the only one so thats why he says master of two world no master of many worlds. He escaped with only one version of himself. The only question for me is that the director zane that now is obviously another version of him is gone too or not
I think Alan wake was dragged into Thomas Zane’s story the same way Alex Casey was dragged into Alans. Idk just me
See I took it as a reference to him leaving and then choosing to return. So yes he did escape, but also no he did not. He still came back.
So...
5D chess with multiversal time-travel?
I still need to know what the ending music is.
Departed Souls from the Chrono Cross OST
Can you talk the ethics in BioShock? Bu the way, Persona is just one of the many spin offs in the Shin Megami Tensei series, and is full religuos references
I'm currently working on Shin Megumi Tensei 3. Loving the Vedic allusions in it so far. I have done one video for Bioshock. Once I clear up my plate from other projects I would love to dive into that series.
Ethics in Bioshock? I imagine that the people of Rapture thought of morality the same way you and I think about unicorns or leprechauns, a distant myth with no foundation in real life.
Now we know why it's called Alan Wake 2 😂
Lmao let's go with that
So, what role does Alice play in all of this?
Great!
So Alan Wake is in a loop, in each loop, he gets free and at the same time he will be trapped. Splitting him up in half. So there are multiple Alans which are free and trapped at the same time, but just a fraction of the original Alan Wake? Does Mr. Door sees them all? So many questions... lets loop around it :)
I think you are wrong on the sub intended core of the story. Return is a story of horror but a story of love in the end, Alan says so himself, at the end of departure after being split from Alice this split created Mr.Scratch, a desire to escape and reunite with Alice, just like in departure where the lovers Barbara Jagger and Thomas Zane were the Dark Presence and the Bright presence this time around Alice is the Bright presence bringing the gift of the clicker to Saga and becoming the Bullet of light that is shot into Alan's head, a poisonous dart forever seeking out the darkest part, forever seeking alan's heart, just like in the lyrics for the main song of the game (This Road by Poe) which the lyrics were written by Sam Lake by the way. In conclusion after Alice and Alan are reunited, the Dark and Bright Presence, then the spiral ends with scratch being destroyed by the light and the reunion of Alan with Alice negating he's reason for existing in the first place. Perhaps in the context of the loop this means there are 2 Alans, perhaps this means all the loops are written out of existence having happened and at the same time not happening at all, what is important that the existing Alan is now free and master of many worlds
But what about Alice?, is she still in the dark place after the final draft?
i think future alan told him he must going out of darkplace and take control on other part too as tor said dont screw it tom ! we works in other side ! i think real alan our knowlage alan is free now and he is grandmaster he have seer ability and doors ability too peek in on other univese now its make sense why warlin door ubset about it may he act like him and f up everything again for others like door did and tor got angry and freya stories started .but alan play safe here ,there is one of him back to begining with knowlage its spiral and darkplace works like this with bullet of light to not getting capture with darkpresence or maybe have ability fight back ( we know when dark presence presents we cant fight back just run forest run:) )and himself with all part of him combined (shadow self etc )to help everyone in other side and he leave tom as villan for a thrill ! thats why tom have dark bullet ....sam really infuenced on 3rd season of twin peaks in alan wake 2 ..