I love it when Sandra Bezic says, "One triple...and several doubles...in a series" because she has NO idea what else to call the sloppy, flouncy, stiff-legged jumping pass that Slutskaya just tripped her way through.
I wondered if I was the only person to think that she used that pass to cover for an off-balance landing. I even think it's debatable whether the 3 flip was a clean, ratified landing. The second lutz had an awkward stiff landing also.
Sadly the new system rewards sloppy skating as long as they hit the jumps and turns. It's not about the all around package anymore. Irina was sloppy. This was not Michelle's night. It's scary how close this skating almost took the Gold.
@@MichaelDruck But it doesn't matter if 10 million people agree with you. Popularity is no substitute for the TRUTH. Your statement is just a personal opinion. Its likely, many Americans agree with you out of misplaced nationalism which they believe is patriotism. Lots of people agreeing with you doesn't make your point valid. Its doesn't make it true. The new system rewards pushing the limits & refining technique. It rewards all the parts of the sport which make it athletic and I'm perfectly fine with it. I believe its wonderful, after- all, the Olympics is the zenith of sport. That alone, should be the sole focus---the athletic side of the sport. There are many shows & exhibitions where a skater can focus on art & performing. Once a competitive career ends there are tours that cater to honing the art of skating but strong technique will can only be captured during a skater's prime. It won't last. But its the foundation from which a skater can build their art.
@@lila2986 Shut up you skank. American female skaters are washed up in the sport period. Nobody in the USA gives a rip about skating anyway. GTHOH pig!
It’s who you are competing against in a competition. Kristi Yamaguchi fell on a triple loop and doubled a salchow but won gold. We give Michelle too hard a time on the missed flip.
Her heart wasn’t in it. Sarah deserved that medal. You don’t judge an Olympics on how different judges decided to view Kristi Yamaguchi’s program against different skaters in 1992-good grief. You just wanted Michelle to win. It is most definitely not who you are competing against. Michelle had to show up and skate like everyone else. She did a much better job in 1998 against Tara, but there can only be one gold. Sometimes I think they should just award three golds so you don’t have this endless snarking afterwards. Trying to judge who is the “best” is often ridiculous.
@@ravenel2 This wasn't Michelle's night (or season). She deserved to win in 1998 over Tara's juvenile presentation and under-rotated 3-3. The draw was not in her luck.
I have no proof of this, but I'm guessing Irina's coach told her Michelle had not had a good skate so there was no need to take any unnecessary risks. I'm sure she never dreamed the judges would rank Sarah over her at the Olympics no matter how well Sarah skated. She doesn't look like she was even considering doing those triple-triples, and I think she was so hugely upset at the end because she had to know if she had just done a little more difficult content, the gold would have been hers even with the sloppy triple flip.
I imagine she was thinking, "just slow down everything and don't fall, and you've got it." Unfortunately for her, she didn't have the same technical content as Sarah, and she had a sloppy landing. Months afterwards, Irina said in interviews that it just came down to the judges; she felt she still had deserved that win. I love Irina's fast, powerful skating and had never paid much attention to Sarah, but tonight Irina was slow yet oddly frenetic and it just didn't work. Between eight of the judges, they evened out - it was the Italian judge that nudged Sarah ahead of Irina. And had Michelle not fallen, this miraculous ending would not have even taken place!
@Antonio Jose Vivero Viteri Sarah had no pressure because no one supports she would be the winner. （∩▽∩）Sarah surprised what happened at the 2002 Olympics more than anyone.
I think it was about even with Kwan, technically. If Kwan hadn’t fallen on the triple flip, she would’ve had the gold. Based on all this, Hughes deserved the gold.
Watching scores again and still can't believe how high her score were. I mean 5.9s for presentation, wven the 5.8s for technical merit were almost gifts.
Michelle did not technically fall in her long; she touched down the ice with her hand. Though Irina did not touch down the ice, she landed severely forward on her flip. Both infractions deserved a deduction. Also, Michelle had two clean lutzes whereas Irina only had one. Michelle two-footed on her first toe-loop whereas Irina two-footed on her second lutz. Two-footing didn't warrant a deduction but was considered an omission. Based on jumps alone --- and the fact that Michelle landed a triple lutz at the second half of the program ---Michelle clearly had more difficult jump content.
I've had a theory for over twenty years now that Michelle would have won the gold here if it weren't for the judging controversy in the pairs competition just a few days earlier. If they had put Michelle second in the long behind Hughes she would have won the gold under these rules, But there would've been another controversy because the public would not have understood why Hughes would have lost despite that electrifying performance which was far better than anyone else's that night... This performance by Slutskaya was really sloppy, uninspired, and slow. I think if there was a mathematical way the judges could have given the silver to Michelle ahead of Irina, they would have. Unfortunately there wasn't and they had to sacrifice the silver medal winner for the gold medal winner.
Another perspective - Michelle had the easiest triple-triple of the whole final flight planned, so that 3Lz at the end was the only thing that really saved her technical score from going completely down the crapper. I had said before this was dumb but after considering the late 3Lz, I might have to recant that sentiment!
@@jadedixon3641 Michelle had the easiest technical program planned of all the top six skaters, which didn't help. She only had one 3+3, which didn't help. She had that touchdown, which didn't help. She skated too cautious again (just like in Nagano) which didn't help. The judges knew she was going coachless, which didn't help. Sarah had the best skate of her life, she had one of the top two most difficult technical programs planned, and executed them as well as could be rewarded (since flutzing wasn't deducted then)...she had no falls, unlike Michelle and Sasha, or bobbles or sloppiness, unlike Irina.... If you fall down or chicken out technically, and someone else gets it right, at the right time, is it really being "robbed"? It's always possible (but improbable) for a 4th SP to win the LP but only if you skate the best LP and everyone else screws up in the exact order needed for that result. It's a competition, so what matters is what you put on the ice right then, not what you did leading up to it. And the fact that Sarah was the FIRST of the top 4 to skate should have meant her scores would be held back a little. She did exactly what she needed to do to win, while everyone else crumbled. Even her artistry was almost top-notch. I'd have given Sasha the artistic top score (5.9), and if Michelle had not fallen, given Michelle and Sarah the same artistic score (5.8) I miss the 6.0 system so much and would have loved to have been a judge!
She's lovely, but almost no program in this. The artisty was very questionable (3x5.9 is strange) and I felt the jumps were a bit of a hot mess too. It was like a rollercoaster, but not in the good way. It wasn't her night, but she's made her mark in skating for sure, making it to the top tier when she competed. That in itself is an achievent to remember.
Russia obviously would boost its own skater with 5.9. Belarus, who still has strong ties to Mother Russia, did the same. Last 5.9 from Slovakia was a bit more surprising,.
@slavaro1992 There may have been a wrong edge change on the Lutz, but I studied the 2 triple-triple combinations carefully because of the ongoing debate, and Sarah did NOT under-rotate either combination. Now, you're comparing sophistication between a 16 year old and a 22 year old. Clearly, Irina is maturer to be able to express a more sophisticated presentation, but from the judges have done here and in 1998, they seem to prefer the skater who skated more freely and not conservatively.
@Dylvente I agree with you. No other possible result would have been right. They couldn't let Irina be the gold medalist with that performance, nor could they leave Michelle stay in first by default. Sarah winning was the only way this could go and since they put Sasha behind Michelle, the only thing they could do was put Irina in second.
While I like Irina skating a lot she was very tense and out of place in the FS. The Tosca program didn't make it for me. I think the real issue was her overwhelming over-expression and movement which looks forced and artificial also she didn't perform her jumps as planned so if she didn't hit the jumps, she didn't hold a candle to other skaters. I agree with the ridiculous presentation scores but her SP was amazing, artistic, beautiful, and mature, and was the best I've seen from her. I think she should have gotten a choreographer that could hide her weaknesses while highlighting her strengths.
Totally agree. She needed to skate clean with better landings and a 3-3 to have a shot at beating Hughes in the long. When she makes mistakes on the jumps it hurts her because her skating Doesn't have a whole lot more strengths to get her the high scores she needs. Another good example of that would be at the 2001 world championships. She had one really sloppy landing compared with a mesmerizing performance from Kwan. It was a no brainer.
The Italian judge ended up averaging out the eastern and western bloc voting and ended up being the only judge who had the same ordinals as the results (Hughes, then Slutskaya, then Kwan, then Cohen)
Even though I know what happened and I watched this over and over again when I was a kid....it still makes me nervous to wait for the final scores because the stakes were so high
I have to adapt my comment, Irina was underscored af in the short program, she should have been first and THEN she would have won the gold, because only Sarah, but no other skater had beaten her in the free skate!!!!!
It wasn't about triples and Irina doing the hand over her head was more complex a 3 lutz. Her entries & exists were more difficult. What did that have to do with the freeskating? She didn't technically blow Irina out of the water. You have that American bias.
I was today years old when I realized Irina only did 6 triples, one of which had a flawed landing, another two footed according to the commentator. Surprised this beat Michelle, but maybe I'm watching with IJS eyes. Falling was a huge problem under 6.0. And Irina's spins were brilliant.
It's debatable who should have been ahead between Irina and Michelle, but if Irina had not beat Michelle, then Michelle would have won the gold, which I don't think would have made sense, so I think overall the results ended up pretty fairly.
I question whether you know what you saw? Technique isn't just triples. Irina did Bielmann spins on both legs. Sara's triple-triple = Irina's 3 loop, 2 sal, 2 loop. Sara's spins were blah & she lack any choreography at all. She skated around doing triples and that's it. Her skating hasn't held up with time. She got a gift from the judges for being American Michelle did too. She was on her butt. The Foreign skater got ripped.
@@ctruth6185 What? Slutskaya was sloppy and almost fell on a jump. Sarah was flowing and no, a triple triple is more difficult than a triple double double.
What a hodgepodge. Slutskaya developed some in her later years, but this was not worth 2nd place. Sasha, Sarah and Michelle had better perormance all-round.
Sarah was a middle skater, she did a good job never happened before to win and she was lucky because the other better skaters like Michelle and Irina made mistakes.
The real issue here was whether Michelle skated better than Irina. Michelle clearly had the artistic advantage. Had the US judge placed Michelle 2nd instead of Irina after the long program, Michelle would have won the gold medal.
Truth nailed. M.K. basically got screwed off two gold medals in both Olympics she has participated in, but it the end didn't need it. Ladies skating OG is less brighter without her name on it. Oh well.
@ZzXZ636 Sarah lost the short program. Irina did not skate better than Michelle. Winning the free skate does not guarantee gold if you didn't place in the top 3 in the short program, and Sarah was 4th in the short. Sarah deserved to win the free skate but not the gold. It really should have been a US sweep of the podium, Kwan, Hughes, then Cohen.
MK did not look confident when she took the ice, and she also looked slow. The judges could ignore the two-footed tripe toe and no 3-3 but the fall on the flip coupled the pairs judging scandal left no room for the judges to prop Michelle up. I think most of them wanted her to win but just couldn't. Of all the season to ditch your long time coach and choreographer, who had contributed greatly to her success, MK and her team decided that the 01--02 season was the best time to do it. Head Palm !
I hear a lot of comments about Sarah's jumps being under-rotated. From the angles I've seen, they seemed to be under, but less than a quarter-turn with the blade on the ice, which makes them "legal" or whatever. Comments? I enjoyed Irina's skate, but that over-rotation was so blatantly obvious I think that may be what cost her in the end.
The judges overcompensated that night because of the pairs scandal that happened a few days before. They were determined to prove to the world how "just" they were, which meant allowing Sarah Hughes to "win" the gold medal despite being 4th after the short. In my humble opinion, the long program ordinals should have been: -Sarah Hughes (5.8, 5.8) -Michelle Kwan (5.6, 5.9) -Sasha Cohen (5.7, 5.7) -Irina Slutskaya (5.7, 5.6)
I would have scored Sasha's presentation a 5.8 - Michelle was a bit dull (for Michelle) -equal to Sarah's presentation. Unfortunately, Sasha got pushed off the battlefield in the end, which is a shame.
I just can't see Michelle getting a 5.9 artistic here since she was so cautious and with another top-notch artistic skater (Sasha) sharing the ice with her unique stretch/extensions. Michelle had a nice spiral as usual but it was kind of old news. She didn't try anything new or interesting artistically OR technically, it was all just too safe safe safe. Boring. Plus her fall, which came AFTER Sasha's, was clunkier and more distracting. All this, still it was Irina's insane scoring that stole people's attention. Those Eastern Bloc countries and their constant 5.9s for just flopping around on the ice like a dead fish...lol idk. If she had skated clean, she could have safely kept the gold. I just wish she had attempted to boost some aspect of her skating instead of doing the same old Michelle stuff she'd been doing since 1996.
I loved this night of figure skating (except for Sandra's overgushing about Sarah a bit....uh, a lot). I love it when the underdog comes from behind and wins! Got me really interested in watching this sport and I have enjoyed your videos so much.
There was absolutely no reason for anyone to score higher than Sarah that night (at least in terms of technical merit), that includes a clean Michelle Kwan. Sarah had 8 triples, Michelle and Irina had 5 clean ones. Not giving Sarah the gold would've been an injustice
the issue was the rankings of the fs. Since michelle was 1st in the sp and sarah 4th, someone other than Sarah had to also beat michelle in the fs. A lot of people felt michelle should have been 2nd in the fs and have beaten irina, which would have allowed michelle to win the gold medal, with sarah second
@@zb6070 That would be wrong, because with Michelle's mistakes, she didn't deserve the gold that night. I think the problem was that Michelle placed in front of Sasha in the fs. Yes they had a similar amount of mistakes, but Sasha fell attempting a triple lutz-triple toe combination, Michelle fell on a solo triple flip, 2 footed her triple toe during the triple toe-triple toe attempt, and eventually bailed to do a triple-double. I would've had for the free skate: 1) Sarah 2) Sasha 3) Irina 4) Michelle
@@mht4908 there is more to skating than jumps. Transitions, spins, spirals etc. Irina had next to no artistry and made many jump mistakes. Taking artistry kwan should easily beat irina. Sasha has performance but didnt have the reputation yet and her program had a lot of dead spaces which hurt her.
You don't seem to understand how the 6.0 system worked. Sarah was 4th after the short. I could even agree with a ridiculous argument about Sarah deserving 6.0s that night. What I don't agree with was how the ladies were ranked in the long program. Yes, Sarah probably won the long. However, Slutskaya should not have placed 2nd in the long. It should have been Kwan or Cohen.
5.6, 5.5 for Irina. She should have placed 4th or 5th in the free skate. Though Hughes may have won the free skate, taking the short program results into consideration, Kwan or Cohen should have won the gold. The artistic mark should have gone to Kwan despite touching down on the flip; technical mark should have gone to Cohen despite the one fall.
No it was on the combinations. The plain fact was that Slutskaya had to beat Kwan to take gold and I think she just about had it. Hughes was an irrelevance really but came into play because the USA were hosts.
as CBC pointed the second combination was much cleaner than the first but by today's rule her quarter turn cheat on the first combination would be considered fully rotated or 70% of full marks which would still make her the technical winner of the night and as Sandra pointed out she was also the artistic winner too and the only top 3 skater who skated freely.
I don't like the modern scoring system at all. It has relegated artistry at the expense of athleticism, and if in your American football you got more points for the same thing just because it was the second half there would be uproar. I've looked at the three performances again and I'm still unsure as to why Irina lost.
She seems so very talented but here it seems she lacks luster idk maybe not enough energy on this day and thus not fast enough for powerful jumps. But I always enjoyed watching her skate.
In case anyone was wondering at all, Sandra Bezic really really really really really wanted Sarah to win. Just in case it wasn't clear to everyone watching the Olympics.
Looks like she tripped over herself at 1:59 and slipped at 3:50, no triple-triples and nowhere near at good as Sara Hughes. It doesn't even seem close to me.
Scott was talking about the factored placements, but he was wrong. It did (and would not) result in a 3-way tie. It resulted in a TWO-WAY tie, with Sarah getting 2.0(SP) + 1.0(LP) = 3.0, and Irina getting 1.0(SP) + 2.0(LP) = 3.0. Michelle had 0.5(SP) + 3.0(LP) = 3.5. I think Scott, in his head, thought they would all be tied at 3.0, but he was misinformed.
Почему американцы так яро ненавидят Ирину, так же как и русские презирают Сару? Люди, прошло 20 лет, давайте уже отпустим эти распри за призовые места, нам не принадлежащие, начнем уважать друг друга и спортсменов. Миру мир
Serenata de Schubert, a música de apresentação (short program) da atleta Irina Slutskaya nas Olimpíadas de Inverno 2002. [Vídeo: Irina Slutskaya (RUS) - 2002 Salt Lake City, Figure Skating, Ladies´ Short Program]. Na performance Free Skate, Irina Slutskaya veio de Tosca, de Puccini. [Vídeo: Irina Slutskaya (RUS) - 2002 Salt Lake City, Figure Skating, Ladies´ Free Skate] [FIGURE SKATING - LADIES´ EVENTS da obra ESPETACULAR, de Fernando Pinheiro]
Со своими недокрученными прыжками Хьюз по сумме 2 программ могла быть только 2-ой после Слуцкой, но, как всем известно, на американской земле побеждают только американцы...
The only way Sarah Hughes could win the gold medal, which she rightfully deserved for her stellar LP, was if someone else defeated Michelle Kwan in the LP. The only skater who could come close to doing that was Irina. There is NO WAY this mess of a LP beat Michelle, but the judges had to place her ahead of Michelle in order for the rightful skater, Sarah, to win gold. The way the ordinals played out, the judges had to sort of throw Michelle under the bus for Sarah to win. Kwan should have been no lower than silver here, but mathematically, that wasn't possible. They had to sacrifice the rightful silver medalist in order for the rightful gold medalist to win.
I know this is probably going to be a controversial opinion, but I think the judges got it right that night. Sarah truly had everything that night. But I'm focusing on Michelle and Irina, not Sarah. And as unpleasant as Irina's free skate was, I still would have placed her ahead of Michelle. While Irina was clearly not equal to Michelle in terms of artistry (which we all agree on.), I thought her technical skate was stronger than Michelle. Irina's skate was flawed, Michelle did have bigger mistakes, like double-footing her 3-Toe/3-Toe combo and falling on the Flip. And Irina double-footing her Flip landing forward on her Toe Loop (which is more of a "quality deduction" than an actual deduction). And while I think Michelle's "Scherezade" program was beautiful, Sarah Kawahara's choreography has never been known for its difficulty or very challenging. And in terms of technique, Michelle's long was the least difficult of the top 3 women.
Yes but I think if Irina had won the short (which IMO she actually should have) the judges would have now placed Michele 2nd in the long and Irina 3rd in the long just to make sure Sarah won. Basically with the two skates being similar-ish they were going to place whoever had to be 3rd for Sarah to win there to make sure of that result. They didn't want another scandal after all the broo hah over the pairs and they know the dumb as hammers general skating audience would not get things like factored points or too far back after the short, etc...Of course if Sarah had been lower than 4th in the short as she also should have been it would now have been impossible to find a way to give her the gold overall anyway.
Michelle kwan had triple triple combo since 1995 ~ 2005 ( not every time ) ,which means her technique was stable and better than the other skaters like Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes had triple triple combo just for 2~3 years.
Actually, Michelle created so many difficult programs in her career. Much difficult than Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes..... Under the new system, Tara's technique and Sarah's wouldn't get marks today.
Reading these comments, all I can say is that Sarah Hughes deserved to win the gold medal. Cohen and Kwan both fell over, and Slutskaya made too many errors and almost fell over. All three of Hughes’ opponents skated badly, and in an Olympic competition they just weren’t good enough.
Sarah deserved to win the LP. An argument could be made that she should've been placed lower than 4th in the SP. I think Irina should've won the SP, which would then given her the overall win even with this flawed LP.
She made a lot more mistakes than Kwan did. I think that last jump was a double, rather than a triple, but the commentators didn’t mention it. I’d have given this a 5.5 and Kwan a 5.6, but that’s just on the technical merit.
@@Boymanjusri I never said I was an expert. Your snooty tone is pretty tacky, too. What if I was someone who was trying to learn more about the sport? Would your approach be helpful or more likely to turn someone off of skating altogether? My guess is that you probably don’t even care. Nice attitude. Thank you for that... as you can see, I went back and corrected myself and admitted my mistake, as well. Did you even look at the whole thread?
A mess of a program, not even her jumps were quality in this number. I know why she was placed second, I guess, but she shouldn't have been in the top three. Overscored throughout her career, she should have been grateful for silver here.
I agree with you - this was a mess. Her short program was excellent and she skated it well. But even without a fall, Irina's skating is painful thing to look at.
As ridiculous as it gets, a bunch of people discussing how a skater should have won a silver Olympic medal with a fall, expressively agreeing on fairness of such decision, but also calling "a scandal" the pairs' event where a more difficult program with a small mistake came ahead of a clean simpler one, by one vote. Anyone doubting their own objectivity here?
That was some amazing cinematography during this skate. Wonder why the NBC camera crews and producers went all out for this skate and not for the American.
Что самое интересное - Слуцкая закончила программу и сразу же после этого показали лысого судью-итальянца, который в итоге поставил Слуцкую на четвертое место. Как будто бы и оператор заранее знал, кто из судей куплен.
What's with all the bent free legs and the frequent pushing off with the toe pick? Also, she telegraphs her jumps and the choreography looks like she made it up on the spot. No finesse. Ugly skating . . . but that's just my opinion.
Wow. I didn't remember it happened this way! Thank goodness it all ended up as it should have, esp as Michelle fell (hand down is considered a fall, I believe), plus other issues, and let Irina slip in. But Irina should never have been ranked above Sarah, NO way did she deserve those marks, and they caused much of the numbers complexity. She did not have a great skate, esp artistically and wasn't as fast as normal. Too bad about Sasha, consistency was never her strong suit. Plus she didn't have much intl experience, although she didn't seem too bothered. I so wished Michelle would finally get that gold, but it was not to be. Just like her contemporaries Kurt Browning, Todd Eldredge, and Elvis. She is in very good company!
This was simply not enough to win the gold. To beat Hughes in the long she would have needed a 3-3 as she was artistically weaker than Hughes, Kwan, and Cohen. I think there was a credible argument to put her behind Kwan and Cohen in the long. The majority put her in second in the long because it guaranteed Hughes would win gold.
@coffeebreakmediaPH I agree. I feel that the judges felt a lot of pressure to get this right in the eyes of the media after the pairs fiasco, so they engineered the placements in a way the media wouldn't question, but it went against the spirit of the system as it was at the time.
@@scriptedbeauty1 They both fell as I recall. If this was not the Olympics, they might have won. Irina did not have a 3-3 and Sarah did. She also had some messy landings. Sarah had the skate of her life and Irina didn't. That is the whole story.
I know this was impossible but I wish it could have been Sarah-Michelle-Irina. They had to put Irina ahead of Michelle to award Sarah the gold, and that was the right decision, but Irina's performance was a choreographic nightmare and not clean (and I like Irina, just not this program).
It wasn't the right decision. No judge should ever engineer a certain outcome. The question was: Did Irina skate better than Michelle? Most people think Irina didn't (for obvious reasons).
Does that mean you would have had Michelle second in the long program and thus first overall? I agree that Irina did not skate better than Michelle. @@scriptedbeauty1
It’s just obvious the judges knew Sarah deserved the gold and calculated the scores to get there. Irina was so hard to watch with those flailing arms and strange decapitation moves. And Russia has some of the best choreography in the world. But Michelle was also sloppy with a double foot lack of triple triple and bad fall And I dont think firing your coach and having Dad show up for the Olympics as your coach was world class. Seemed like Michelle panicked and ended up choking.
Agreed. The USA Judge in particular would NEVER have had Irina over Michelle in this skate, if he weren't trying to bounce Sarah up to first place. I AGREED with his logic (after the pairs event, I thought skating needed a winner everyone could agree on). Funny how that worked out. People still to this day try to say Irina should have won after that stiff performace with almost no technical difficulty.
Tara Lipinski was overrated and lucky to be the 1998 Olympics winner, it's a joke now.（∩▽∩）We all knew Michelle was robbed. Tara's Disney Cartoon program was boring. The ISU raised the age limit to 17 NOW, which means Tara Lipinski should go to the kid's Olympics.
Without a kid's body and weight, Tara Lipinski was nothing. （∩▽∩）Artistry is the most difficult technique, Tara never touched the level......Tara skated safe because her performance just like a happy puppy running in the park.....LOL.
did the result put the faith back in judging... no because slutskaya was scored too high especially by the usually same 2-3countries they had that bad performance over an amazing on. slutskaya should not have won any first place ordinals
Ya like everyone else I’m rewatching this after Irina’s recent comments and wow. I’m not a fan of Sarah at all but no one can deny she was perfect this night. Even Irina’s look on her own face before she started to bow shows that she knew her performance was mediocre and sloppy. Talk about delusional. Also those 5.9’s for presentation were an absolute joke.
@@scottw6704 Basically that she didn’t win because she was Russian and these Olympics were in the U.S. and that she believes that she was the best at these olympics and should have won gold
A poor music choice for Irina. Her obvious struggle to interpret the music contrasts painfully with her much better presentation in the short program here, and in future seasons, she had better presentation than this in several of her programs, including her 2006 long program. The judges were generous to her on both marks here, especially the presentation mark, to place her above Michelle. It is strange that Irina felt cheated (as she later implied in an interview) after skating a less difficult, and also flawed, performance compared to Sarah's clean performance. She should have considered herself lucky to get the silver.
@Novak D I'd agree her Olympic win was a fluke, but she had a bronze from a previous worlds and several Grand Prix medals. Her win wasn't completely out of nowhere. She probably would have still medaled in SLC if Kwan and Slutskaya had skated cleanly in the LP.
@ADEAL416 The judges were limited in their options because they put Sasha behind Michelle. The only way to award Sarah gold was to put Irina in second, even though it meant dropping Michelle to third. But maybe that was better than giving Irina a gold she clearly didn't earn, or giving Michelle the gold because the rules allowed for nothing else. Would it have been fair under the rules if Michelle won? Yes, but not fair in terms of who really won the gold that night. Just a thought.
I agree. I guess they had a better view than we do, but both Scott and Sandra were quick (not just here) to call out two-foot landings that in some cases really weren't. (In the 2006 Olympics, Sandra did so but corrected herself when the replay happened.) Still an overrated performance on the technical mark IMO.
Вот с таким прокатом Ирина считает, что ее засудили?? что отобрали у нее первое место?? Это же абсурд! Сара Хьюз опередила ее на 20 баллов по всем параметрам!
Sarah Hughes was clearly the best skater that night. She wasn't just lucky to win, she deserved to win. She had the artistry and she was the only one to do 2 triple combinations. When Irina didn't get the gold medal she cried and had a little tantrum which reminded me of Alexandra Trusova having a major meltdown crying and carrying on like a poor sport.
После нескольких просмотров, нет вопросов, Ирину очень высоко поставили, программа не пригодна к многократном пересмотр у, столько остановок, помарок,нет комбинации 3/3, одни амбиции, могла и постараться!Соперница была выше на голову, красивое женственное катание, прекрасное владение коньком! Чем и знаменита школа ФК в Америке! Но глаза болельщиков в такие минуты слепы!😁😁😁
Sarah lost the short program. Irina did not skate better than Michelle. The judges were using this to cover up their corruption after the pairs scandal.
i dont think sandra bezic was biased. michelle was really tight this night, and that reflected in her artistic expression; just watch her amazing performance at worlds just a month after this. and two 3-3s compared to irinas technical content clearly gave her the technical advantage. yes, sandra was really enthusiastic, but with the pairs scandal i cant really blame her for worrying about a fair result.
I never cared for irina's presentation an artistry it always felt. Robotic an rehearsed like 123 put my head up 123 spin 123 wave my hands with a fake smile compared to machelle irina was weak artistic wise
Depends on what she gave Sarah. I'm guessing she gave Sarah a 5.7, then when Irina skated not as clean as Sarah she HAD to give her a lower technical number. 5.6 was the only option.
@kwansansog Oh what the hell do you expect?! They were rooting for their sister who remained as an eligible skater for 4 more years to try to win the one Gold Medal that eluded her. She was a favorite going in because she won the 2 previous World Championships, and to see her skate worse than she did at Nationals... if you were in their place, wouldn't YOU feel the same? I actually thought Sasha should have been on the podium and not Michelle, but please give me a break with this bull crap!
Not a fan of the chosen music and for some reason, it just feels like she's going through the motions, doing the jumps (etc) like checking off a shopping list. Seemed to lack passion. Choreographically, there just to be a disjointed feel between skater, program and music ... like they weren't in sync, or missing something. Technically, with the exception of a couple of blips, it was satisfactory however, as someone else said, not a medal winning performance.
Yeah it was just really uninspired. Technically there was some decent work in there but it was SLOW and very sloppy. That jumping pass which included the 2 doubles at the end looked to me like a cover for an off balance landing.
It looked like because she was going so slow, her jumps would go up but not forward? So it took away from the flow (to my eye). It's like, she would almost come to a stop and then jump and spin, like they were disconnected from the program.
@@mikeg8375 I think, according to the notations during the final group warmup, that was intended to be a 3-2-3 jump. She and Sarah were the only ones who planned two triple-triples.
Slight 2 foot on the landing, Scott?! There was no 2 foot. What the hell are you talking about?! This program had no artistry whatsoever though. I would have given Michelle 5.5 and 5.8 and Irina 5.7 and 5.6 thus giving Michelle the lead and the gold medal, Sarah the silver, and Irina the bronze.
Sarah had the best program on both fronts. I had Sarah 5.8 5.8 Sasha 5.6 5.8 Michele 5.5 5.8 and Slutskaya 5.7 5.6 ( the judges would never mark Slutskaya that low)
You can’t give Michelle the gold on a performance like that, no matter what she did in the short. Sarah Hughes absolutely grabbed that gold and good for her.
But again, your thought disregards the short program entirely. That's what I mean about the short program existing for a reason and its results having to mean something. The long program is not the entire competition, and so it is sometimes possible for someone to win overall without being the best on the night of the long program. That's what I'm referring to. It's completely fair, because Sarah dug a hole for herself in the short and needed help from someone else to win. She didn't get it
smurfiennes blue No, it's YOU who are logically wrong. Why do we need short program then if it doesn't matter? With old system it was very hard to get on 1st place overall after being 4th in the short. ADEAL416 is right - BOTH programs should matter together, not only FS.
Было понятно, что на Олимпиаде в США должна была победить американка, одна из трех. Все это понимали. Ира каталась под жутким, страшным давлением. Но тут произошло то, что никак никто не мог предвидеть: американки стали падать, нервы не выдержали. Ииии.... Опа! Сару Хьюс вытягивают с четвертого места после короткой программы на первое после произвольной!!! Такого при старой системе судейства просто не могло быть! Поэтому и такое долгое судейство, поэтому и нелепые 5.6 за артистизм Ирине! И хопа - Сара Хьюс первая! Это после четвертого-то в короткой! С ее недокрученными прыжками! Мисс недокрученный прыжок. Но время все расставило по местам. Великая Ирина стала семикратной чемпионкой Европы, двукратной чемпионкой Мира, двукратным призером Олимпийских игр. После жестокой болезни вышла на лед и показывала блестящие результаты. А Хьюс больше не выиграла ничего.
@stevebbuk9557 был засчитан. В том-то и дело. По старой системе Хьюс максимум могла быть вторая. В короткой программе ее оценки были не слишком-то высоки, и это было объективно. Ни у кого не возникло бы вопросов, если бы победила Мишель Кван. Она великая фигуристка. Но Мишель не выдержала нервного напряжения. Саша Коэн часто была нестабильна, но при чистом прокате могла бы завоевать справедливое золото. Ирина всегда отличалась потрясающей техникой и несгибаемой волей. Каждая из этих трех фигуристок могла стать первой. Но не Хьюс.
@@МаринаВасильева-с3у Я уже говорил вам, что в 2002 году использовалась старая система. Интересно, что Юна Ким была обманута и лишилась золота в Сочи. Это было по новой системе подсчета очков. Я беспристрастный наблюдатель, и то, как Ирина откатала произвольную программу в Солт-Лейк-Сити, не заслуживало победы.
@@stevebbuk9557 именно по старой системе невозможно было прыгнуть с 4 на первое. По новой это как раз таки возможно. Программа Сотниковой была сложнее, чем программа Ким. Был целый ролик с замедленной съемкой всех прыжков, вращений, дорожек двух спортсменок - Ким технически проиграла почти во всех элементах.
Just a terrible problem artistically. A hot mess. I would have given Michelle 5.6/5.8 and Irina 5.8/5.6. Sarah deserved to win even with her cheated triple triples. She’s the only one that didn’t make a clear mistake in both programs.
No. Michelle was 'in the lead' before this skate because Sarah's 4th place short skate + 1st place free skate in total ranked behind Michelle's 1st place short skate + 2nd place (at that moment, before Irina skated) free skate. Once Irina skated and the judges ranked her 2nd in free, that bumped Michelle down to 3rd. If Irina was given 1st place in free (2nd short+1st free), she would have won gold, Sarah silver (4th+2nd), and Michelle still would have received bronze (1st+3rd).
@@phantasmex Sarah was lucky, because she didn't belong to the level of Michelle and Irina. The other better skaters like Michelle and Irina made mistakes, so that Sarah won.
This was a lose-lose situation no matter how Irina was placed. Placing Irina behind Michelle would mean that Michelle still wins gold, which she did not deserve that night due to her mistakes. I personally think Irina was overscored in the short and should've placed no higher than 4th (ie. Michelle - 1st, Sasha - 2nd, Sarah - 3rd). Putting Irina for silver also seems undeserving as her landings were quite wonky and wasn't clean overall
Michelle had that one fall. she didn't have a tripple tripple. So it wasn't fair to give her a gold when Sarah had 2 tripple tripple in her program. Irena didn't have a tripple combo either.. just a tripple with doubles. They, Michelle and Irena handed it to Sarah and they both knew it. but it was a great competition
@@dbulc5171 They over glorified Michelle through out the whole season.. and yet again she didn't deliver. Just listening to Michelles interviews made my eyes wonder off into space. The media never paid that much attention to Tara or Sarah. They did shine some light on Sasha.. did that glimmer freak her out when it came time to perform.. yeah.. it did. You could see it in her skating. Michelle also cracked.. but she really didn't have the technical jumps like Tara or Sarah 4 yrs later. Her training was off or was it more ego skating for her.. like "I won so many already i just have to skate and they will give it to me" attitude. they gave the gold to the rightful skaters in the end technically and artistically.
@@bannockmuncher I agree with you. The gold medal winners were correct at both games. Did Irina deserve silver? No but it had to happen for Sarah to win gold.
@@dbulc5171 They underscored Sasha on the artistic impression as well, she also tried a 3Lz - 3T combination which was more difficult than Michelle's. Yes she fell on that, but Michelle's fall was on a solo triple flip, and she 2 footed her first 3T on that 3T - 2T combination
@@ardeladimwit Unfortunately, Michelle fell at the 2002 Olympics, it's a accident and just happened, that's why Sarah got the gold. Sarah did a good job never happened before to win, and she was lucky because the other better skaters made mistakes.
Michelle Kwan fell, Sasha Cohen fell and Irina Slutskaya have a mediocre performance with a few jump mistakes. She think she would win because she was second in the short program.
![[4K60P] Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze 2002 SLC Exhibition - Charlie Chaplin "The Kid"](/img/n.gif)
It’s just so good to go back every now and then and watch this. Brings a smile to my face every time
I love it when Sandra Bezic says, "One triple...and several doubles...in a series" because she has NO idea what else to call the sloppy, flouncy, stiff-legged jumping pass that Slutskaya just tripped her way through.
Irina tried to disguise step-outs as "euler double salchow" for years!!
I wondered if I was the only person to think that she used that pass to cover for an off-balance landing. I even think it's debatable whether the 3 flip was a clean, ratified landing. The second lutz had an awkward stiff landing also.
@@mikeg8375 Yes, it seems like she was trying to cover up a trip or mistake as if to say, "Ya, I meant to do that." LOL
"One triple and several doubles in a series."
--Sandra Bezic ☠
Sadly the new system rewards sloppy skating as long as they hit the jumps and turns. It's not about the all around package anymore. Irina was sloppy. This was not Michelle's night. It's scary how close this skating almost took the Gold.
Hughes did nothing artistically and her line was sloppy. What the heck are you posting about? You don't have a clue.
@@ctruth6185 you know what im posting about so many people agree with me
@@MichaelDruck But it doesn't matter if 10 million people agree with you. Popularity is no substitute for the TRUTH. Your statement is just a personal opinion. Its likely, many Americans agree with you out of misplaced nationalism which they believe is patriotism. Lots of people agreeing with you doesn't make your point valid. Its doesn't make it true. The new system rewards pushing the limits & refining technique. It rewards all the parts of the sport which make it athletic and I'm perfectly fine with it. I believe its wonderful, after- all, the Olympics is the zenith of sport. That alone, should be the sole focus---the athletic side of the sport. There are many shows & exhibitions where a skater can focus on art & performing. Once a competitive career ends there are tours that cater to honing the art of skating but strong technique will can only be captured during a skater's prime. It won't last. But its the foundation from which a skater can build their art.
@@lila2986 Shut up you skank. American female skaters are washed up in the sport period. Nobody in the USA gives a rip about skating anyway. GTHOH pig!
@@ctruth6185 Are you informed that Russia and Belarus can no longer compete in world competitions?
It’s who you are competing against in a competition. Kristi Yamaguchi fell on a triple loop and doubled a salchow but won gold. We give Michelle too hard a time on the missed flip.
Her heart wasn’t in it. Sarah deserved that medal. You don’t judge an Olympics on how different judges decided to view Kristi Yamaguchi’s program against different skaters in 1992-good grief. You just wanted Michelle to win. It is most definitely not who you are competing against. Michelle had to show up and skate like everyone else. She did a much better job in 1998 against Tara, but there can only be one gold. Sometimes I think they should just award three golds so you don’t have this endless snarking afterwards. Trying to judge who is the “best” is often ridiculous.
@@ravenel2 This wasn't Michelle's night (or season). She deserved to win in 1998 over Tara's juvenile presentation and under-rotated 3-3. The draw was not in her luck.
@@Qacc6 Agree that it wasn't Michelle's time, but on the subject of Tara, 6 of 9 Olympic judges and Michelle Kwan's coach agreed Tara deserved to win.
I have no proof of this, but I'm guessing Irina's coach told her Michelle had not had a good skate so there was no need to take any unnecessary risks. I'm sure she never dreamed the judges would rank Sarah over her at the Olympics no matter how well Sarah skated. She doesn't look like she was even considering doing those triple-triples, and I think she was so hugely upset at the end because she had to know if she had just done a little more difficult content, the gold would have been hers even with the sloppy triple flip.
I imagine she was thinking, "just slow down everything and don't fall, and you've got it." Unfortunately for her, she didn't have the same technical content as Sarah, and she had a sloppy landing. Months afterwards, Irina said in interviews that it just came down to the judges; she felt she still had deserved that win. I love Irina's fast, powerful skating and had never paid much attention to Sarah, but tonight Irina was slow yet oddly frenetic and it just didn't work. Between eight of the judges, they evened out - it was the Italian judge that nudged Sarah ahead of Irina. And had Michelle not fallen, this miraculous ending would not have even taken place!
@Antonio Jose Vivero Viteri No question about it. In my mind, she fully deserved the gold.
@Antonio Jose Vivero Viteri Sarah had no pressure because no one supports she would be the winner. （∩▽∩）Sarah surprised what happened at the 2002 Olympics more than anyone.
I think it was about even with Kwan, technically. If Kwan hadn’t fallen on the triple flip, she would’ve had the gold. Based on all this, Hughes deserved the gold.
Watching scores again and still can't believe how high her score were. I mean 5.9s for presentation, wven the 5.8s for technical merit were almost gifts.
gift is that you are able to write without brains
When are you gonna learn that under the 6.0 ordinal system, the score is a ranking relative to other skaters.
Главное было 5 судей с первым местом, а не 5,9
Michelle did not technically fall in her long; she touched down the ice with her hand. Though Irina did not touch down the ice, she landed severely forward on her flip. Both infractions deserved a deduction. Also, Michelle had two clean lutzes whereas Irina only had one. Michelle two-footed on her first toe-loop whereas Irina two-footed on her second lutz. Two-footing didn't warrant a deduction but was considered an omission. Based on jumps alone --- and the fact that Michelle landed a triple lutz at the second half of the program ---Michelle clearly had more difficult jump content.
I've had a theory for over twenty years now that Michelle would have won the gold here if it weren't for the judging controversy in the pairs competition just a few days earlier. If they had put Michelle second in the long behind Hughes she would have won the gold under these rules, But there would've been another controversy because the public would not have understood why Hughes would have lost despite that electrifying performance which was far better than anyone else's that night... This performance by Slutskaya was really sloppy, uninspired, and slow. I think if there was a mathematical way the judges could have given the silver to Michelle ahead of Irina, they would have. Unfortunately there wasn't and they had to sacrifice the silver medal winner for the gold medal winner.
@mikeg8375 Totally agree. Michelle was robbed because of the pairs scandal. Notice that Sarah never won a nationals or worlds, she got lucky.
Another perspective - Michelle had the easiest triple-triple of the whole final flight planned, so that 3Lz at the end was the only thing that really saved her technical score from going completely down the crapper. I had said before this was dumb but after considering the late 3Lz, I might have to recant that sentiment!
@@jadedixon3641 Michelle had the easiest technical program planned of all the top six skaters, which didn't help. She only had one 3+3, which didn't help. She had that touchdown, which didn't help. She skated too cautious again (just like in Nagano) which didn't help. The judges knew she was going coachless, which didn't help. Sarah had the best skate of her life, she had one of the top two most difficult technical programs planned, and executed them as well as could be rewarded (since flutzing wasn't deducted then)...she had no falls, unlike Michelle and Sasha, or bobbles or sloppiness, unlike Irina.... If you fall down or chicken out technically, and someone else gets it right, at the right time, is it really being "robbed"? It's always possible (but improbable) for a 4th SP to win the LP but only if you skate the best LP and everyone else screws up in the exact order needed for that result. It's a competition, so what matters is what you put on the ice right then, not what you did leading up to it. And the fact that Sarah was the FIRST of the top 4 to skate should have meant her scores would be held back a little. She did exactly what she needed to do to win, while everyone else crumbled. Even her artistry was almost top-notch. I'd have given Sasha the artistic top score (5.9), and if Michelle had not fallen, given Michelle and Sarah the same artistic score (5.8) I miss the 6.0 system so much and would have loved to have been a judge!
this olympics was a tragedy of haircuts
Siri Hammond it really was 😂
She's lovely, but almost no program in this. The artisty was very questionable (3x5.9 is strange) and I felt the jumps were a bit of a hot mess too. It was like a rollercoaster, but not in the good way. It wasn't her night, but she's made her mark in skating for sure, making it to the top tier when she competed. That in itself is an achievent to remember.
Mario Jan Marino Her landings aren’t good
Russia obviously would boost its own skater with 5.9. Belarus, who still has strong ties to Mother Russia, did the same. Last 5.9 from Slovakia was a bit more surprising,.
very Russian style: a lot of posturing and superfluous head, arm, and hand movements feigning emotion.
Still better than Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes.
@@TT-ee4qp Absolutely not.
"But they weren't clean Scott..."
In this house we stan Sandra
@@antmfan231995 always
Sarah deserved it. She was the best. Delightful to behold.
Sarah was lucky, because the other better skaters like Michelle and Irina made mistakes......（∩▽∩）
@slavaro1992 There may have been a wrong edge change on the Lutz, but I studied the 2 triple-triple combinations carefully because of the ongoing debate, and Sarah did NOT under-rotate either combination. Now, you're comparing sophistication between a 16 year old and a 22 year old. Clearly, Irina is maturer to be able to express a more sophisticated presentation, but from the judges have done here and in 1998, they seem to prefer the skater who skated more freely and not conservatively.
What was that mess at the end?
Right? She always had awful choreography
Laughing
Just the end? I thought it was a mess from the first pose onwards.
@Dylvente I agree with you. No other possible result would have been right. They couldn't let Irina be the gold medalist with that performance, nor could they leave Michelle stay in first by default. Sarah winning was the only way this could go and since they put Sasha behind Michelle, the only thing they could do was put Irina in second.
While I like Irina skating a lot she was very tense and out of place in the FS. The Tosca program didn't make it for me. I think the real issue was her overwhelming over-expression and movement which looks forced and artificial also she didn't perform her jumps as planned so if she didn't hit the jumps, she didn't hold a candle to other skaters. I agree with the ridiculous presentation scores but her SP was amazing, artistic, beautiful, and mature, and was the best I've seen from her. I think she should have gotten a choreographer that could hide her weaknesses while highlighting her strengths.
Totally agree. She needed to skate clean with better landings and a 3-3 to have a shot at beating Hughes in the long. When she makes mistakes on the jumps it hurts her because her skating Doesn't have a whole lot more strengths to get her the high scores she needs. Another good example of that would be at the 2001 world championships. She had one really sloppy landing compared with a mesmerizing performance from Kwan. It was a no brainer.
The Italian judge ended up averaging out the eastern and western bloc voting and ended up being the only judge who had the same ordinals as the results (Hughes, then Slutskaya, then Kwan, then Cohen)
The Italian judge had her 4th behind Cohen. Rightfully so in my opinion.
Even though I know what happened and I watched this over and over again when I was a kid....it still makes me nervous to wait for the final scores because the stakes were so high
This is so emotional, beautiful storytelling program
I have to adapt my comment, Irina was underscored af in the short program, she should have been first and THEN she would have won the gold, because only Sarah, but no other skater had beaten her in the free skate!!!!!
It wasn't about triples and Irina doing the hand over her head was more complex a 3 lutz. Her entries & exists were more difficult. What did that have to do with the freeskating? She didn't technically blow Irina out of the water. You have that American bias.
I was today years old when I realized Irina only did 6 triples, one of which had a flawed landing, another two footed according to the commentator. Surprised this beat Michelle, but maybe I'm watching with IJS eyes. Falling was a huge problem under 6.0. And Irina's spins were brilliant.
It's debatable who should have been ahead between Irina and Michelle, but if Irina had not beat Michelle, then Michelle would have won the gold, which I don't think would have made sense, so I think overall the results ended up pretty fairly.
I question whether you know what you saw? Technique isn't just triples. Irina did Bielmann spins on both legs. Sara's triple-triple = Irina's 3 loop, 2 sal, 2 loop. Sara's spins were blah & she lack any choreography at all. She skated around doing triples and that's it. Her skating hasn't held up with time. She got a gift from the judges for being American Michelle did too. She was on her butt. The Foreign skater got ripped.
@@ctruth6185 What? Slutskaya was sloppy and almost fell on a jump. Sarah was flowing and no, a triple triple is more difficult than a triple double double.
@@ctruth6185 What? Sarah’s spins were gorgeous!
A triple and a series of doubles: lmao, Sandra Bezic takes no bullshit
@Novak D exactly. I love it 🤣
why was Irina disappointed when she chose to show up to the Olympics with that hot mess of choreography.
Did she add the double salchow because she was about to fall out of the double toe?
Yup, looks like it. I think it was some sort of strategy that was taught: just disguise a turn out with a double sal.
Irina is one of the all time greats. Her subsequent comeback after severe medical illness was touching.
Did you see her win at 2005 Worlds? It was one of the most exciting performances I've ever seen!
What a hodgepodge. Slutskaya developed some in her later years, but this was not worth 2nd place. Sasha, Sarah and Michelle had better perormance all-round.
Her skating did not fit with the music. Found it to be off and slow.
Agreed. The choreography was terrible.
"If there is a three-way tie... Guess what! Sarah Hughes wins the gold medal."
Sarah was a middle skater, she did a good job never happened before to win and she was lucky because the other better skaters like Michelle and Irina made mistakes.
The real issue here was whether Michelle skated better than Irina. Michelle clearly had the artistic advantage. Had the US judge placed Michelle 2nd instead of Irina after the long program, Michelle would have won the gold medal.
Truth nailed. M.K. basically got screwed off two gold medals in both Olympics she has participated in, but it the end didn't need it. Ladies skating OG is less brighter without her name on it. Oh well.
@ZzXZ636 Sarah lost the short program. Irina did not skate better than Michelle. Winning the free skate does not guarantee gold if you didn't place in the top 3 in the short program, and Sarah was 4th in the short. Sarah deserved to win the free skate but not the gold. It really should have been a US sweep of the podium, Kwan, Hughes, then Cohen.
@ZzXZ636 and how is that relevant to what I said? I didn't suggest a tie.
MK did not look confident when she took the ice, and she also looked slow. The judges could ignore the two-footed tripe toe and no 3-3 but the fall on the flip coupled the pairs judging scandal left no room for the judges to prop Michelle up. I think most of them wanted her to win but just couldn't. Of all the season to ditch your long time coach and choreographer, who had contributed greatly to her success, MK and her team decided that the 01--02 season was the best time to do it. Head Palm !
I give Irina cred. for that final combo spin 4:48. A double Bielmann performed on different legs.
I hear a lot of comments about Sarah's jumps being under-rotated. From the angles I've seen, they seemed to be under, but less than a quarter-turn with the blade on the ice, which makes them "legal" or whatever. Comments? I enjoyed Irina's skate, but that over-rotation was so blatantly obvious I think that may be what cost her in the end.
The judges overcompensated that night because of the pairs scandal that happened a few days before. They were determined to prove to the world how "just" they were, which meant allowing Sarah Hughes to "win" the gold medal despite being 4th after the short. In my humble opinion, the long program ordinals should have been:
-Sarah Hughes (5.8, 5.8)
-Michelle Kwan (5.6, 5.9)
-Sasha Cohen (5.7, 5.7)
-Irina Slutskaya (5.7, 5.6)
I would have scored Sasha's presentation a 5.8 - Michelle was a bit dull (for Michelle) -equal to Sarah's presentation. Unfortunately, Sasha got pushed off the battlefield in the end, which is a shame.
Those are not ordinals, those are scores/points. Ordinals are placements.
The judges screwed up by putting Sasha behind Michelle, they wouldn’t have had to over score Irina had Sasha been 2nd
I just can't see Michelle getting a 5.9 artistic here since she was so cautious and with another top-notch artistic skater (Sasha) sharing the ice with her unique stretch/extensions. Michelle had a nice spiral as usual but it was kind of old news. She didn't try anything new or interesting artistically OR technically, it was all just too safe safe safe. Boring. Plus her fall, which came AFTER Sasha's, was clunkier and more distracting. All this, still it was Irina's insane scoring that stole people's attention. Those Eastern Bloc countries and their constant 5.9s for just flopping around on the ice like a dead fish...lol idk. If she had skated clean, she could have safely kept the gold. I just wish she had attempted to boost some aspect of her skating instead of doing the same old Michelle stuff she'd been doing since 1996.
I loved this night of figure skating (except for Sandra's overgushing about Sarah a bit....uh, a lot). I love it when the underdog comes from behind and wins! Got me really interested in watching this sport and I have enjoyed your videos so much.
How does any judge give Slutskya a 5.9 in presentation ?
They had to get her placement above Kwan's.
That still doesn't explain the Slovakian judge giving Slutskaya 5.9/5.9
it does if you have block judging, russian did same as well.
There was absolutely no reason for anyone to score higher than Sarah that night (at least in terms of technical merit), that includes a clean Michelle Kwan. Sarah had 8 triples, Michelle and Irina had 5 clean ones. Not giving Sarah the gold would've been an injustice
the issue was the rankings of the fs. Since michelle was 1st in the sp and sarah 4th, someone other than Sarah had to also beat michelle in the fs. A lot of people felt michelle should have been 2nd in the fs and have beaten irina, which would have allowed michelle to win the gold medal, with sarah second
@@zb6070 That would be wrong, because with Michelle's mistakes, she didn't deserve the gold that night. I think the problem was that Michelle placed in front of Sasha in the fs. Yes they had a similar amount of mistakes, but Sasha fell attempting a triple lutz-triple toe combination, Michelle fell on a solo triple flip, 2 footed her triple toe during the triple toe-triple toe attempt, and eventually bailed to do a triple-double. I would've had for the free skate: 1) Sarah 2) Sasha 3) Irina 4) Michelle
@@mht4908 there is more to skating than jumps. Transitions, spins, spirals etc. Irina had next to no artistry and made many jump mistakes. Taking artistry kwan should easily beat irina. Sasha has performance but didnt have the reputation yet and her program had a lot of dead spaces which hurt her.
Sarah had 7 triples, and by the way, there are 4 sets of marks in total. 1 clean program doesn’t win the competition. Settle down.
You don't seem to understand how the 6.0 system worked. Sarah was 4th after the short. I could even agree with a ridiculous argument about Sarah deserving 6.0s that night. What I don't agree with was how the ladies were ranked in the long program.
Yes, Sarah probably won the long. However, Slutskaya should not have placed 2nd in the long. It should have been Kwan or Cohen.
5.6, 5.5 for Irina. She should have placed 4th or 5th in the free skate. Though Hughes may have won the free skate, taking the short program results into consideration, Kwan or Cohen should have won the gold. The artistic mark should have gone to Kwan despite touching down on the flip; technical mark should have gone to Cohen despite the one fall.
i agree Sarah should have won.....but there is no way that Irina should have beat Michele....but, whatever
Actually I'm surprised that Sarah won, given that her jumps were under-rotated. It seems as if the judges wanted a USA gold at all cost..
@stevebbuk...so you're saying every jump Sarah did was under rotated?
No it was on the combinations. The plain fact was that Slutskaya had to beat Kwan to take gold and I think she just about had it. Hughes was an irrelevance really but came into play because the USA were hosts.
as CBC pointed the second combination was much cleaner than the first but by today's rule her quarter turn cheat on the first combination would be considered fully rotated or 70% of full marks which would still make her the technical winner of the night and as Sandra pointed out she was also the artistic winner too and the only top 3 skater who skated freely.
I don't like the modern scoring system at all. It has relegated artistry at the expense of athleticism, and if in your American football you got more points for the same thing just because it was the second half there would be uproar. I've looked at the three performances again and I'm still unsure as to why Irina lost.
Irina's free program was quite uninspiring compared to Sarah Hughes who deservedly won the Gold over Irina and Michelle's Free Program
She seems so very talented but here it seems she lacks luster idk maybe not enough energy on this day and thus not fast enough for powerful jumps. But I always enjoyed watching her skate.
In case anyone was wondering at all, Sandra Bezic really really really really really wanted Sarah to win. Just in case it wasn't clear to everyone watching the Olympics.
Because Sarah was the best performance that night. It’s not hard.
Well, she called it correctly because Sarah was the rightlful winner that nightl
Well Sarah is American. She will be the best, forever.
I very much preferred her to Tara.
Back when the Russians allowed actual post-pubescent women to skate.
y gana la adolescente de 16 años de USA, igual que 4 años antes ganó la adolescente de 15 años de USA
@@KoraimaLynn Así es!
I LOVE Sarah’s dress. It is SO pretty
Wtf r u doing here? Go watch Sara videos, especially those after 2002
@@ilyichoblomov The 2002 Olympics winner Sarah got the 6th place at the 2003 World championship. （∩▽∩）Yes, Sarah was a middle skater.
I always loved her triple loop jump.
Looks like she tripped over herself at 1:59 and slipped at 3:50, no triple-triples and nowhere near at good as Sara Hughes. It doesn't even seem close to me.
she could have easily done a 3/3 off that first jumping pass.... and probably regrets it every day.
I have never understood the 'three way tie' @ about 6:24.
Scott was talking about the factored placements, but he was wrong. It did (and would not) result in a 3-way tie. It resulted in a TWO-WAY tie, with Sarah getting 2.0(SP) + 1.0(LP) = 3.0, and Irina getting 1.0(SP) + 2.0(LP) = 3.0. Michelle had 0.5(SP) + 3.0(LP) = 3.5. I think Scott, in his head, thought they would all be tied at 3.0, but he was misinformed.
Thank you!
Scott frequently says stupid shit
Почему американцы так яро ненавидят Ирину, так же как и русские презирают Сару? Люди, прошло 20 лет, давайте уже отпустим эти распри за призовые места, нам не принадлежащие, начнем уважать друг друга и спортсменов. Миру мир
Serenata de Schubert, a música de apresentação (short program) da atleta Irina Slutskaya nas Olimpíadas de Inverno 2002. [Vídeo: Irina Slutskaya (RUS) - 2002 Salt Lake City, Figure Skating, Ladies´ Short Program]. Na performance Free Skate, Irina Slutskaya veio de Tosca, de Puccini. [Vídeo: Irina Slutskaya (RUS) - 2002 Salt Lake City, Figure Skating, Ladies´ Free Skate] [FIGURE SKATING - LADIES´ EVENTS da obra ESPETACULAR, de Fernando Pinheiro]
What was that part at the end?
Agreed. That was just poor choreography
It was ugly, that's what it was.
Со своими недокрученными прыжками Хьюз по сумме 2 программ могла быть только 2-ой после Слуцкой, но, как всем известно, на американской земле побеждают только американцы...
Хьюз победила заслужено!
@@ЮрийЮрий-ц1п9эИ где эта заслуженная недокрутка?
“One triple and several doubles in a series” 😂😅
The 2loop landing also looked uncontrolled to me, like this "series" was a cover for un unclean landing.
@@mikeg8375 Correct! She stepped out of the double loop. Tried to disguise it by adding the double toe.
@ChristianLehrer Overall, I think her performance was sloppy and I might have even placed her fourth in the long program if I was a judge.
@@mikeg8375 Agree!
How did this beat Kwan?
The only way Sarah Hughes could win the gold medal, which she rightfully deserved for her stellar LP, was if someone else defeated Michelle Kwan in the LP. The only skater who could come close to doing that was Irina. There is NO WAY this mess of a LP beat Michelle, but the judges had to place her ahead of Michelle in order for the rightful skater, Sarah, to win gold. The way the ordinals played out, the judges had to sort of throw Michelle under the bus for Sarah to win. Kwan should have been no lower than silver here, but mathematically, that wasn't possible. They had to sacrifice the rightful silver medalist in order for the rightful gold medalist to win.
@@L1623VP - that makes sense. Thanks so much!
Иди в пень,завистник
Because Kwan fell at all.
I think Michelle fell? If she didn't fall they ripped her off! She should've sued them.
This was not her best, but I do like the height on that triple toe jump at the end of the performance.
I know this is probably going to be a controversial opinion, but I think the judges got it right that night. Sarah truly had everything that night. But I'm focusing on Michelle and Irina, not Sarah. And as unpleasant as Irina's free skate was, I still would have placed her ahead of Michelle. While Irina was clearly not equal to Michelle in terms of artistry (which we all agree on.), I thought her technical skate was stronger than Michelle. Irina's skate was flawed, Michelle did have bigger mistakes, like double-footing her 3-Toe/3-Toe combo and falling on the Flip. And Irina double-footing her Flip landing forward on her Toe Loop (which is more of a "quality deduction" than an actual deduction). And while I think Michelle's "Scherezade" program was beautiful, Sarah Kawahara's choreography has never been known for its difficulty or very challenging. And in terms of technique, Michelle's long was the least difficult of the top 3 women.
Yes but I think if Irina had won the short (which IMO she actually should have) the judges would have now placed Michele 2nd in the long and Irina 3rd in the long just to make sure Sarah won. Basically with the two skates being similar-ish they were going to place whoever had to be 3rd for Sarah to win there to make sure of that result. They didn't want another scandal after all the broo hah over the pairs and they know the dumb as hammers general skating audience would not get things like factored points or too far back after the short, etc...Of course if Sarah had been lower than 4th in the short as she also should have been it would now have been impossible to find a way to give her the gold overall anyway.
@@grantgoffin4774 It's a accident that Sarah won the Olympics just because the other better skaters like Michelle and Irina made mistakes.
Michelle kwan had triple triple combo since 1995 ~ 2005 ( not every time ) ,which means her technique was stable and better than the other skaters like Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes had triple triple combo just for 2~3 years.
Irina had strong technical, but she skated like a truck driver, her artistry was far from Michelle's.
Actually, Michelle created so many difficult programs in her career.
Much difficult than Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes..... Under the new system, Tara's technique and Sarah's wouldn't get marks today.
Reading these comments, all I can say is that Sarah Hughes deserved to win the gold medal. Cohen and Kwan both fell over, and Slutskaya made too many errors and almost fell over. All three of Hughes’ opponents skated badly, and in an Olympic competition they just weren’t good enough.
Sarah Hughes was lucky. 😂
Sarah deserved to win the LP. An argument could be made that she should've been placed lower than 4th in the SP. I think Irina should've won the SP, which would then given her the overall win even with this flawed LP.
Вы всегда ноете, что лучше всех. Мания величия, только и всего.
She made a lot more mistakes than Kwan did. I think that last jump was a double, rather than a triple, but the commentators didn’t mention it. I’d have given this a 5.5 and Kwan a 5.6, but that’s just on the technical merit.
Alamo James The last jump was definetly a triple.
Tyrone Branch you’re right. When I saw it again, I realized it was. The rotation was slower, though. I got confused or something, haha!
You can not even tell if it is a triple or a double? And you pretend you know figure skating? Pathetic
@@Boymanjusri I never said I was an expert. Your snooty tone is pretty tacky, too. What if I was someone who was trying to learn more about the sport? Would your approach be helpful or more likely to turn someone off of skating altogether? My guess is that you probably don’t even care. Nice attitude. Thank you for that... as you can see, I went back and corrected myself and admitted my mistake, as well. Did you even look at the whole thread?
A mess of a program, not even her jumps were quality in this number. I know why she was placed second, I guess, but she shouldn't have been in the top three. Overscored throughout her career, she should have been grateful for silver here.
I would have given Cohen third in the long over Slutskaya. This was artistically really weak, technically mediocre.
I agree with you - this was a mess. Her short program was excellent and she skated it well. But even without a fall, Irina's skating is painful thing to look at.
@auntiechercher4266 it was 100% the wrong music selection also. Not suited for her at all. Something more modern would have served her much better.
Даааа!!!!А потом был чемпионат мира и где Саша её там не было!!!А Ирина взяла там золото!❤
As ridiculous as it gets, a bunch of people discussing how a skater should have won a silver Olympic medal with a fall, expressively agreeing on fairness of such decision, but also calling "a scandal" the pairs' event where a more difficult program with a small mistake came ahead of a clean simpler one, by one vote. Anyone doubting their own objectivity here?
multiple mistakes actually. it wasnt just that one very obvious one. all their throws were testy landings
Yeah. That makes scandal.
I slowed this down and I still can't see a two foot landing. Wtf Scott.
so much natioanlism.
She did not win a gold medal but she is part of Figure Skating History.
PD: Huges had the Olimpic lucky.
Я вас умоляю, выскочка однодневка))) которой подарили золото. Противно и смешно
That was some amazing cinematography during this skate. Wonder why the NBC camera crews and producers went all out for this skate and not for the American.
Why that's obvious, Russian mafia bribed them
Что самое интересное - Слуцкая закончила программу и сразу же после этого показали лысого судью-итальянца, который в итоге поставил Слуцкую на четвертое место. Как будто бы и оператор заранее знал, кто из судей куплен.
Im just not a fan. Obviously a great athlete, but her lines are always broken up and kind of all over the place.
What's with all the bent free legs and the frequent pushing off with the toe pick? Also, she telegraphs her jumps and the choreography looks like she made it up on the spot. No finesse. Ugly skating . . . but that's just my opinion.
Rob Lawrence Russo I agree her set up for jumps is really obvious
Oh no, and I named my cat Irina!🤔
Wow. I didn't remember it happened this way! Thank goodness it all ended up as it should have, esp as Michelle fell (hand down is considered a fall, I believe), plus other issues, and let Irina slip in. But Irina should never have been ranked above Sarah, NO way did she deserve those marks, and they caused much of the numbers complexity. She did not have a great skate, esp artistically and wasn't as fast as normal. Too bad about Sasha, consistency was never her strong suit. Plus she didn't have much intl experience, although she didn't seem too bothered. I so wished Michelle would finally get that gold, but it was not to be. Just like her contemporaries Kurt Browning, Todd Eldredge, and Elvis. She is in very good company!
And you LOSE, so fucking deal with it, LOSER
Mao Asada can also join this company. So sad, Michelle didn't win the gold, but nevertheless, she's one of the greatest skaters)
This was simply not enough to win the gold. To beat Hughes in the long she would have needed a 3-3 as she was artistically weaker than Hughes, Kwan, and Cohen. I think there was a credible argument to put her behind Kwan and Cohen in the long. The majority put her in second in the long because it guaranteed Hughes would win gold.
No judge should ever engineer an outcome. Kwan and Cohen were better than Slutskaya in the long.
@coffeebreakmediaPH I agree. I feel that the judges felt a lot of pressure to get this right in the eyes of the media after the pairs fiasco, so they engineered the placements in a way the media wouldn't question, but it went against the spirit of the system as it was at the time.
Дааа!!!А какже было просто с 4 места пригнуть на первое!!!Ну прям чудо а не фигуристка !!!Подлые воры!!!
@@scriptedbeauty1 They both fell as I recall. If this was not the Olympics, they might have won. Irina did not have a 3-3 and Sarah did. She also had some messy landings. Sarah had the skate of her life and Irina didn't. That is the whole story.
Four judges had her first? That’s outrageous.
Wel, Russia and Belarus were expected. Most of the former Russian republics would side with Mother Russia
I was kinda shocked about DENMARK, though. I understood the other 3 -- crooked AF.
david baughman outrageous
I know this was impossible but I wish it could have been Sarah-Michelle-Irina. They had to put Irina ahead of Michelle to award Sarah the gold, and that was the right decision, but Irina's performance was a choreographic nightmare and not clean (and I like Irina, just not this program).
,И,неbыдно,им,с,этой,беспонтовлй,хз,
It wasn't the right decision. No judge should ever engineer a certain outcome. The question was: Did Irina skate better than Michelle? Most people think Irina didn't (for obvious reasons).
Does that mean you would have had Michelle second in the long program and thus first overall? I agree that Irina did not skate better than Michelle. @@scriptedbeauty1
It’s just obvious the judges knew Sarah deserved the gold and calculated the scores to get there. Irina was so hard to watch with those flailing arms and strange decapitation moves. And Russia has some of the best choreography in the world. But Michelle was also sloppy with a double foot lack of triple triple and bad fall And I dont think firing your coach and having Dad show up for the Olympics as your coach was world class. Seemed like Michelle panicked and ended up choking.
Agreed. The USA Judge in particular would NEVER have had Irina over Michelle in this skate, if he weren't trying to bounce Sarah up to first place. I AGREED with his logic (after the pairs event, I thought skating needed a winner everyone could agree on). Funny how that worked out. People still to this day try to say Irina should have won after that stiff performace with almost no technical difficulty.
Tara Lipinski was overrated and lucky to be the 1998 Olympics winner, it's a joke now.（∩▽∩）We all knew Michelle was robbed. Tara's Disney Cartoon program was boring. The ISU raised the age limit to 17 NOW, which means Tara Lipinski should go to the kid's Olympics.
Without a kid's body and weight, Tara Lipinski was nothing. （∩▽∩）Artistry is the most difficult technique, Tara never touched the level......Tara skated safe because her performance just like a happy puppy running in the park.....LOL.
@@TT-ee4qp too bad Michelle’s entire career is second place and third place. Do you relate to falling short in life?
@@TT-ee4qp Tara has a net worth 2.5 times Michelle. It’s the difference between gold and bronze. Fail. Do you relate to failure?
did the result put the faith back in judging... no because slutskaya was scored too high especially by the usually same 2-3countries they had that bad performance over an amazing on. slutskaya should not have won any first place ordinals
Anne and you think this was pleasant to watch? She two footed the fuck out of multiple jumps and her ending choreography was disgusting
I was pulling so hard for Michelle, but I admit it : Sarah Hughes brought the house down ! -------------------------WolfSky9
You don’t need to sign your name we can all see your handle jag off
Irinaaaa, so beautiful! Thanksss for being part of My Childhood!
One of my favorites 😁🤩
Женское катание шагнуло далеко вперед, благодаря Тутберидзе. А у мужчин Ягудин до сих пор остаётся лучшим с 2002 года.
Юдзуру Ханью посмеялся где-то. И Нейтан Чен.
Ya like everyone else I’m rewatching this after Irina’s recent comments and wow. I’m not a fan of Sarah at all but no one can deny she was perfect this night. Even Irina’s look on her own face before she started to bow shows that she knew her performance was mediocre and sloppy. Talk about delusional. Also those 5.9’s for presentation were an absolute joke.
I missed her recent comments - what was said?
@@scottw6704 Basically that she didn’t win because she was Russian and these Olympics were in the U.S. and that she believes that she was the best at these olympics and should have won gold
The gold medal for touching ones head the most in one performance to try to be artistic goes to Irina.
A poor music choice for Irina. Her obvious struggle to interpret the music contrasts painfully with her much better presentation in the short program here, and in future seasons, she had better presentation than this in several of her programs, including her 2006 long program. The judges were generous to her on both marks here, especially the presentation mark, to place her above Michelle. It is strange that Irina felt cheated (as she later implied in an interview) after skating a less difficult, and also flawed, performance compared to Sarah's clean performance. She should have considered herself lucky to get the silver.
@@Dylvente I agree, her 2006 free skate was much better suited for her. Its a shame she choked so badly there.
Первый каскад хотела прыгнуть 3-3 ,но что то пошло не так. По лицу видно немного недовольна.
All I can say Irina's LP was sloppy at best !!!
I was so upset when Sarah Hughes won the gold medal. Irina, Michelle, and Sasha were all superior skaters around that time. I was so pissed.
Hopefully you're over it now.
A L - Neither of them was a superior skater to her on that particular evening, at that particular event.
@@MrOu83 Sarah was lucky because the other better skaters like Michelle and Irina made mistakes.
@@TT-ee4qp sometimes I think that Michelle hypo is only because she was Asian.
@Novak D I'd agree her Olympic win was a fluke, but she had a bronze from a previous worlds and several Grand Prix medals. Her win wasn't completely out of nowhere. She probably would have still medaled in SLC if Kwan and Slutskaya had skated cleanly in the LP.
@ADEAL416 The judges were limited in their options because they put Sasha behind Michelle. The only way to award Sarah gold was to put Irina in second, even though it meant dropping Michelle to third. But maybe that was better than giving Irina a gold she clearly didn't earn, or giving Michelle the gold because the rules allowed for nothing else. Would it have been fair under the rules if Michelle won? Yes, but not fair in terms of who really won the gold that night. Just a thought.
This is the music Michelle performs too lol .m not the same feeling when Michelle skates to it .. love Michelle
Michelle's 2004 program < Tosca > was better than Irina's 2002 Olympics LP .
The 2nd Lutz wasn't remotely two footed.
I agree. I guess they had a better view than we do, but both Scott and Sandra were quick (not just here) to call out two-foot landings that in some cases really weren't. (In the 2006 Olympics, Sandra did so but corrected herself when the replay happened.) Still an overrated performance on the technical mark IMO.
You could tell it was two-footed in part by how the ice flew off when she landed. Clearly, it was two-footed.
Even if it wasn't two footed, it was sloppy. If you compare it with Kwan's second Lutz it was not as good.
Вот с таким прокатом Ирина считает, что ее засудили?? что отобрали у нее первое место?? Это же абсурд! Сара Хьюз опередила ее на 20 баллов по всем параметрам!
Sarah Hughes was clearly the best skater that night. She wasn't just lucky to win, she deserved to win. She had the artistry and she was the only one to do 2 triple combinations. When Irina didn't get the gold medal she cried and had a little tantrum which reminded me of Alexandra Trusova having a major meltdown crying and carrying on like a poor sport.
Do you think Slutskaya deserved to rank higher than Kwan that night?
После нескольких просмотров, нет вопросов, Ирину очень высоко поставили, программа не пригодна к многократном пересмотр у, столько остановок, помарок,нет комбинации 3/3, одни амбиции, могла и постараться!Соперница была выше на голову, красивое женственное катание, прекрасное владение коньком! Чем и знаменита школа ФК в Америке! Но глаза болельщиков в такие минуты слепы!😁😁😁
Да и в небольшом перерыве с етой же программой стала чемпионкой мира!!!Где Сары Хьюстон и не наблюдалось!!!❤❤❤
Sarah lost the short program. Irina did not skate better than Michelle. The judges were using this to cover up their corruption after the pairs scandal.
Slutskaya did not have a tantrum. She was visibly upset but reacted naturally and respectfully. What event were you even watching?
It’s like she was trying too hard to be dramatic and artistic. It was so forced.
Ilove Snoopy She looked like she was just out to do the jumps. Just a fucking lump. She was as exciting as a really slow-burning dumpster fir. fire.
It was just painful to watch. There is no artistry anywhere in this train wreck.
i dont think sandra bezic was biased. michelle was really tight this night, and that reflected in her artistic expression; just watch her amazing performance at worlds just a month after this. and two 3-3s compared to irinas technical content clearly gave her the technical advantage. yes, sandra was really enthusiastic, but with the pairs scandal i cant really blame her for worrying about a fair result.
I never cared for irina's presentation an artistry it always felt. Robotic an rehearsed like 123 put my head up 123 spin 123 wave my hands with a fake smile compared to machelle irina was weak artistic wise
Irina's artistry in 2005 for Worlds was better, but still a bit forced. Her athleticism though, was unparalleled.
Who was an Italian judge? 5.6 and 4th place??? Unbelievable
Actually wtf is up with those 5.9/5.9 that was stupid
Depends on what she gave Sarah. I'm guessing she gave Sarah a 5.7, then when Irina skated not as clean as Sarah she HAD to give her a lower technical number. 5.6 was the only option.
5.9 for presentation, ridiculous score
At most, Slutskaya deserved a 5.6 for artistry.
It's ridiculous because your athlete didn't win
@@deeem5468 I’m British we didn’t have an athlete therefore your comment is moot. Fact is Slutskaya had poor presentation & even poorer posture.
@@pueraeternus111 agree 100%
What's even more ridiculous is that Irina believes she deserved gold lol
I love Sarah. So cute and kind
@kwansansog Oh what the hell do you expect?! They were rooting for their sister who remained as an eligible skater for 4 more years to try to win the one Gold Medal that eluded her. She was a favorite going in because she won the 2 previous World Championships, and to see her skate worse than she did at Nationals... if you were in their place, wouldn't YOU feel the same? I actually thought Sasha should have been on the podium and not Michelle, but please give me a break with this bull crap!
Not a fan of the chosen music and for some reason, it just feels like she's going through the motions, doing the jumps (etc) like checking off a shopping list. Seemed to lack passion. Choreographically, there just to be a disjointed feel between skater, program and music ... like they weren't in sync, or missing something. Technically, with the exception of a couple of blips, it was satisfactory however, as someone else said, not a medal winning performance.
Yeah it was just really uninspired. Technically there was some decent work in there but it was SLOW and very sloppy. That jumping pass which included the 2 doubles at the end looked to me like a cover for an off balance landing.
It did seem like she was going through the motions. I agree
It looked like because she was going so slow, her jumps would go up but not forward? So it took away from the flow (to my eye). It's like, she would almost come to a stop and then jump and spin, like they were disconnected from the program.
@@mikeg8375 I think, according to the notations during the final group warmup, that was intended to be a 3-2-3 jump. She and Sarah were the only ones who planned two triple-triples.
Slight 2 foot on the landing, Scott?! There was no 2 foot. What the hell are you talking about?! This program had no artistry whatsoever though. I would have given Michelle 5.5 and 5.8 and Irina 5.7 and 5.6 thus giving Michelle the lead and the gold medal, Sarah the silver, and Irina the bronze.
Sarah had the best program on both fronts. I had Sarah 5.8 5.8 Sasha 5.6 5.8 Michele 5.5 5.8 and Slutskaya 5.7 5.6 ( the judges would never mark Slutskaya that low)
You can’t give Michelle the gold on a performance like that, no matter what she did in the short. Sarah Hughes absolutely grabbed that gold and good for her.
@@ravenel2 Sarah's jumps were all underrotated.
2:39 Looks like the toe of her left foot is on the ice, although it would require slow motion to be sure.
But again, your thought disregards the short program entirely. That's what I mean about the short program existing for a reason and its results having to mean something. The long program is not the entire competition, and so it is sometimes possible for someone to win overall without being the best on the night of the long program. That's what I'm referring to. It's completely fair, because Sarah dug a hole for herself in the short and needed help from someone else to win. She didn't get it
ADEAL416 No, it’s logically wrong. Michelle and Irina didn’t perform well enough on fs; that’s why they didn’t win!
smurfiennes blue No, it's YOU who are logically wrong. Why do we need short program then if it doesn't matter? With old system it was very hard to get on 1st place overall after being 4th in the short. ADEAL416 is right - BOTH programs should matter together, not only FS.
Было понятно, что на Олимпиаде в США должна была победить американка, одна из трех. Все это понимали. Ира каталась под жутким, страшным давлением. Но тут произошло то, что никак никто не мог предвидеть: американки стали падать, нервы не выдержали. Ииии.... Опа! Сару Хьюс вытягивают с четвертого места после короткой программы на первое после произвольной!!! Такого при старой системе судейства просто не могло быть! Поэтому и такое долгое судейство, поэтому и нелепые 5.6 за артистизм Ирине! И хопа - Сара Хьюс первая! Это после четвертого-то в короткой! С ее недокрученными прыжками! Мисс недокрученный прыжок. Но время все расставило по местам. Великая Ирина стала семикратной чемпионкой Европы, двукратной чемпионкой Мира, двукратным призером Олимпийских игр. После жестокой болезни вышла на лед и показывала блестящие результаты. А Хьюс больше не выиграла ничего.
This was scored under the old system.
@stevebbuk9557 был засчитан. В том-то и дело. По старой системе Хьюс максимум могла быть вторая. В короткой программе ее оценки были не слишком-то высоки, и это было объективно. Ни у кого не возникло бы вопросов, если бы победила Мишель Кван. Она великая фигуристка. Но Мишель не выдержала нервного напряжения. Саша Коэн часто была нестабильна, но при чистом прокате могла бы завоевать справедливое золото. Ирина всегда отличалась потрясающей техникой и несгибаемой волей. Каждая из этих трех фигуристок могла стать первой. Но не Хьюс.
@@МаринаВасильева-с3у Я уже говорил вам, что в 2002 году использовалась старая система. Интересно, что Юна Ким была обманута и лишилась золота в Сочи. Это было по новой системе подсчета очков. Я беспристрастный наблюдатель, и то, как Ирина откатала произвольную программу в Солт-Лейк-Сити, не заслуживало победы.
@@stevebbuk9557 именно по старой системе невозможно было прыгнуть с 4 на первое. По новой это как раз таки возможно. Программа Сотниковой была сложнее, чем программа Ким. Был целый ролик с замедленной съемкой всех прыжков, вращений, дорожек двух спортсменок - Ким технически проиграла почти во всех элементах.
@@МаринаВасильева-с3у Нет. Скандал был очевиден всем. ua-cam.com/video/_1N3gol_eN8/v-deo.html
Very heavy skating
Just a terrible problem artistically. A hot mess. I would have given Michelle 5.6/5.8 and Irina 5.8/5.6. Sarah deserved to win even with her cheated triple triples. She’s the only one that didn’t make a clear mistake in both programs.
If Irina has been given gold, would that have bumped Sarah down to bronze? I know technically Michelle was still in the lead before this performance.
No. Michelle was 'in the lead' before this skate because Sarah's 4th place short skate + 1st place free skate in total ranked behind Michelle's 1st place short skate + 2nd place (at that moment, before Irina skated) free skate. Once Irina skated and the judges ranked her 2nd in free, that bumped Michelle down to 3rd. If Irina was given 1st place in free (2nd short+1st free), she would have won gold, Sarah silver (4th+2nd), and Michelle still would have received bronze (1st+3rd).
Got it... thanks!
@@corawaller-jacobs8007 the equation back then was SP rank * 0.5 + FS rank * 1 = Total Factored Rank.
@@phantasmex Sarah was lucky, because she didn't belong to the level of Michelle and Irina. The other better skaters like Michelle and Irina made mistakes, so that Sarah won.
This was a lose-lose situation no matter how Irina was placed. Placing Irina behind Michelle would mean that Michelle still wins gold, which she did not deserve that night due to her mistakes. I personally think Irina was overscored in the short and should've placed no higher than 4th (ie. Michelle - 1st, Sasha - 2nd, Sarah - 3rd). Putting Irina for silver also seems undeserving as her landings were quite wonky and wasn't clean overall
Michelle had that one fall. she didn't have a tripple tripple. So it wasn't fair to give her a gold when Sarah had 2 tripple tripple in her program. Irena didn't have a tripple combo either.. just a tripple with doubles. They, Michelle and Irena handed it to Sarah and they both knew it. but it was a great competition
It should've been Sarah, Sasha, Michelle then Irina. But it was too late.. They already placed Michelle over Sasha.
@@dbulc5171 They over glorified Michelle through out the whole season.. and yet again she didn't deliver. Just listening to Michelles interviews made my eyes wonder off into space. The media never paid that much attention to Tara or Sarah. They did shine some light on Sasha.. did that glimmer freak her out when it came time to perform.. yeah.. it did. You could see it in her skating. Michelle also cracked.. but she really didn't have the technical jumps like Tara or Sarah 4 yrs later. Her training was off or was it more ego skating for her.. like "I won so many already i just have to skate and they will give it to me" attitude.
they gave the gold to the rightful skaters in the end technically and artistically.
@@bannockmuncher I agree with you. The gold medal winners were correct at both games. Did Irina deserve silver? No but it had to happen for Sarah to win gold.
@@dbulc5171 They underscored Sasha on the artistic impression as well, she also tried a 3Lz - 3T combination which was more difficult than Michelle's. Yes she fell on that, but Michelle's fall was on a solo triple flip, and she 2 footed her first 3T on that 3T - 2T combination
And she thinks THIS deserved the gold medal???? The girl is dellusional
Michelle's 2004 program < Tosca > was better than Irina's here.
@@ardeladimwit Unfortunately, Michelle fell at the 2002 Olympics, it's a accident and just happened, that's why Sarah got the gold. Sarah did a good job never happened before to win, and she was lucky because the other better skaters made mistakes.
Michelle Kwan fell, Sasha Cohen fell and Irina Slutskaya have a mediocre performance with a few jump mistakes. She think she would win because she was second in the short program.