Which Elements of Warhammer Should we LEAVE in 2023?
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- It's a new year, plenty of exciting hobby to look forward to, but what element of the hobby would you want to firmly stay in 2023 or throw in the sea! We asked our wonderful patrons this very question and Pat & Geoff discuss them. Will we throw your least favorite part of the warhammer in the sea? Let's find out!
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Im really into The Old World, I hope it does good.
Im just waiting on the old orc boyz kit to be rereleased so I can buy a bunch and mix them in with my 40k orks lol, that said I also have a little WoC army I started to play 8th ed which im looking forward to building further.
Alot of TOW discourse focuses on "old players" completely forgetting the fact that there have been an insanely successful trilogy of games (warhammer total war) in that setting that are rank and file that players want to collect those armies and play the tabletop game too but havent been able to, we want it to be the actual full launch because not including any one of those factions in the game leaves a certain amount of money on the table and players out of the game. The whole "its just old people moaning about an old game" is just ... not true, its echo chamber nonesense imo
Even GW has admitted that the game is aimed at, and marketed to old dudes who already have a lot of stuff.
@@martinjrgensen8234 That's part of my point, even GW themselves seem to have put their blinders on with this, idk how they managed to forget the triple A trilogy of games that has raked in millions for them .... and yet
@@martinjrgensen8234 great, and GW also claims that w40k isn't a game , but a hobby. Doesn't stop whole countries to play and expect the game to be a game, and not something you collect, paint and maybe play once a full moon. GW still designs their games, as if the player base was a bunch of historical players from UKs 70s. Which it has nit been the case since mid 90s.
i mean i'm one of those players and i didn't have interest in getting any of the OW models or gw models in general until covid, and i still wouldn't get warhammer fantasy models majority are... so quite... 90's looking while this is subjective great paint jobs still don't make those models look as good as new models and even then how many people are great painters? And the rules seem complicated and the cost of entry is high. Id prob just play the games, and idk if while yes total war has rank and flank that many people would look at the tabletop version and say ya that's totally total war! There is totally some overlap but would it be big enough impact? HOnestly idk i hope so, because people like the game and thats a good enough reason for me to hope it continues to stick around but well see it is still early days
I never played the tabletop game and was curious. but once i saw the price and the terrible old models i shelved any interest.
The Old World is a specialist game so the scope will reflect that. Nothing wrong with RNF gameplay being supported again in whatever capacity and whatever focus they feel comfortable with.
why not make money from those old moulds for models people still love and a lot of them were actually quite new when fantasy was stopped, personally love the look of old fantasy more than a lot of AoS which has caught up with 40k in the number of just gunk on a model
Peachy, will you stand for this kind of Old World smack talk?!
The "discussion" is really one-sided.
@@MrLordi27 two 40k players walk into a bar in Karak Eight Peaks and complain that the decor isn't very Sci-Fi
They waited until I wasn’t around lol - peachy
Pat and Geoff, the classic painting phase combo
Launching TOW with a completely new line-up of miniatures is completely unrealistic. It’s not what any miniatures developer is doing - new stuff gets released gradually. I can’t understand why you would expect otherwise or why only the contrary would get you excited.
100% it always struck me as odd how everyone seems to think TOW should only launch with 16+ full new ranges all at once whereas they are fine with 40k/AOS releasing books and armies over many years.
Yeah, it's obviously a shame that more kits aren't getting updated but between GWs logistical issues, the time it takes to design the minis and the success of games like Vermintide and the TW games (recent CA fuckery notwithstanding) doing it this way is basically the only way I can see it happening (and considering it appears to be massively outselling GWs expectations I'm guessing more support will be coming).
They announced it several years ago, that's more than enough for all new starting ranges for two factions, released in several waves. Most of those Bretonnian models are older than the majority of the fanbase. The knights are literally from the 90s. To be honest, I think it's kind of cool that the old models will be available again, but it goes a long way to show GW's lack of commitment to the product.
@@gavinmillar There's 9 different supported factions in TOW. It's effectively a niche game. I don't think people realize how much effort, time and cost it takes to replace all sculpts with new ones. They took DECADES to sculpt and release the range as it stands today, most of them which are still great IMO. What makes you think they are willing to take this huge financial bet on a game system that was not being successful in the past to the point they had to discontinue it? Besides, 26% if the Bretonnia roster is all-new sculpts upon release. That's huge, and even then part of the fan-base was whining and moaning about how they didn't like them, or that they were out of scale - without even seeing them in person. The way I see it, if there's enough demand for the game, eventually GW will get around to replacing all sculpts gradually, as is sensible. Flesh-Eater Courts had to wait 7 years since the launch of AOS before they got any substantial number of new sculpts - and they got some great ones recently. We really need to adjust our expectations IMO.
@@IAmTurbogfx Do fantasy fans need new sculptures? Isn’t everything new soulless 3D?
If MESB and Horus Heresy are successful enough for GW to sustain their existence, I don’t see why TOW would do much worse.
If this is sustenance, then what does neglect look like for you?
@@pbkobold I mean Heresy's had next to nothing hasn't it? All we got was 2 upscaled armour marks, heavy and special weapons squads, assault marines, Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, Thousand Sons and Space Wolves special characters, 2 Praetors, various resin consuls, new resin legion upgrades, Contemptor, Leviathan and Deredeo dreadnoughts, Spartan, Land Raider Proteus, Deimos Rhino, Whirlwind Scorpius, Vindicator, Sicaran, Venator, Kratos, Cerberus, Typhon, Sky Hunter jetbikes, 2 types of Predator and 3 types of Cerastus Knight.
@@sonicwingnut To be completely fair though, it makes sense for GW to come out with such a large amounts of new kits for a "rebooted" game system as Horus Heresy, since all kits can virtually be used by any of the factions in the game - although maybe not all of them would be in-character for all factions, and some kits would require a faction-specific upgrade sprue if you really like that kind of detail. Still a lot easier than launch such an array of new sculpts for ALL fantasy factions as from launch, which is unreasonable to expect IMO.
@@IAmTurbogfx oh definitely, I mean the abundance of tanks is clearly just because it's easy to create some extra sprues for existing chassis once the base rhino, spartan and sicaran models were out. And if I'm honest they could have done better with FAQs and game balance as well as bringing out those infantry kits a bit sooner. But on the whole it's a popular system and still has a lot of releases for it considering it's essentially a "specialist" game. Also unlike 40K kitbashing is actively encouraged so even if I don't have a plastic recon squad or Angels Tears I can build my own.
Tbh if GW want to re-release Warmaster a couple of years into TOW lifecycle I’m game
Honestly, the only way to deal with the pressure of the GW release cycle is to disengage. It can be for a little while, or permanently - but the culture of constantly keeping up just doesn't exist outside of their ecosystem, so chilling out from GW for a bit is by far the easiest way to stop feeling that pressure. There are SO many other amazing games and IPs you can dive in to if you need a break, but the only way to get that break is to admit that you need one. If your finances and time can't keep up with the game enough for you to enjoy it, that's not the game for you... and thats FINE.
I don't play 40K these days... I have two armies, but I don't even close to have the time to work on them, or get games in, and when I do try to get games in, I don't have time to keep up with the rules changing so frequently. As a direct result of this, I discovered Infinity and Battletech, two games with tons of cool minis and lore, but both with reasonably static rules systems and much lower overheads in terms of model requirements and time investment. It's thanks to these two games that I get to still have a hobby, whilst engaging on my own terms.
I think a LOT of 40K players are probably struggling to understand that what they might need is just a little space from 40K.
I’ve also just got into Battletech for the same reason: it feels like the time investment is more worthwhile as I know it’s unlikely to change. Every time I play 40K or AOS I feel like I’m learning the rules again!
I wonder if they should have a tournament and casual version of the rules and lists - the latter having a long time between change etc.
@@arlandakhartan I don't see GW slowing down, it is revenue driven, they need the churn, constant change and new releases to push that demand into sales figures. Not too many other companies making tabletop wargames are listed on the stock exchange with all the financial pressures that adds onto the management for constant growth.
I'm not sure why TOW not having a full range refresh is different from each 40k new editions. Most people already have their army, most models stays the same, but it still sells well.
Give it time. I think GW has over reached its production capacity.
@@ironbomb6753 I totally understand, but Geoff and Patrick were surprised it was not a full range refresh.
@@martinteasdale542 Geoff and Patrick have been spoilt by a new edition of 40k and endless primaris lieutenants, but go talk to channels like SN and some of the guests they have had from other channels they will tell you 40k interest after 10th released is dropping dramatically. SN are at the point of stopping 40k coverage completely it's just not paying the bills anymore.
It will lol. This is GW we are talking about, once they stop release more space marines they will do it lol. All joking aside of course they will, You can't trust anything they say, if it sells well they will see those share prices going up and release the rest of it and claim it's "wanted by the community" or some other bullshit lol.
That was exactly my first thought too lol. They can barely keep anything they have currently stocked lol. I always wonder why people believe everything they are told by GW lol. @@ironbomb6753
I just can’t fathom why GW doesn’t put an item up for preorder, let everyone who wants the item make said preorder, then go to the manufacturing section and say we need X amount of this item, once the preorders are dealt with they can then produce a second amount for retail stores etc to put on their shelves. It seems like such an easily solved problem and nobody needs to miss out.
Because then the time between sale and delivery becomes approximately 6 months, that's not something customers would like or the company could do sustainability. Manufacturing takes time.
We definatelly follow different sources when it comes to the Old World. Mine were all the rage about it, buzz non stop. And I nearly fell for the hype and nostalgia with Bretonnia. But everything was sold out after 2 hours 😂
Yeah it's clearly not going to do well 😂
As an old Fantasy player (from 3rd Ed all the way to 8th) I have a load of armies and all the rules but it's nice to see a new product being released. I'm mostly interested in the rules but it'll be nice to see some unavailable models being available again and the occasional new sculpt coming along. I also like how the armies are being released.
It's a niche product and that's fine. It's just nice to have it as a product that's available once more.
I'm also an old WFB player. What has me most hyped is the chance to buy miniatures again. The thing is if you want to play 40k 3rd ed you can and you can still get almost all the miniatures still butif you are a WFB fan no sorry there is the legacy kits which went over to AOS but good luck getting the square bases...
@@jamesmckeand5607 Haven't played WFB before, had always been on the fence about WFB, but I remember several times, finishing a Total War Campaign and going "Right, I wanna start a Bretonnia/High Elf Army", but couldn't. So the option to buy in again is really going to catch a few people, who've done the total war games, I think.
this is it getting access to the old sculpts without having to scour the second hand/recast market is the bonus here i would be happy if they just produced the models only for us to use with which ever older edition we want, but getting updated rules is bonus hopefully between us grognards and the people being brought in from total war is enough to sustain it and even push them to do more with it, plus always nice to have more minis that can be used for kitbashing for 40k/AoS as well
I hope The old World does well and that we also will se a re-release of some of the classic plastic dwarfs that we had in the old Warhammer Fantasy game.
When it comes to painting I think people must do it as they like it, fast or slow. It is a hobby, and it should be fun.
I’d like to see:
Codex as a physical book with a code.
Distal only code.
Faction cards with a code.
Controversial, I know, but it's a huge bugbear of mine: I mostly disagree on the Forgeworld resin. Everyone loves to complain about the price and the quality, and... I mean, I don't disagree that they're costly and a pain to build compared to styrene, but to an extent that's also just a fact of life with resin kits. The question generally isn't whether you could get these kits more cheaply, but whether they exist at all. Resin has much lower setup costs than styrene but much higher labour costs because it's basically impossible to automate. According to your own previous interview, that's why Finecast was so rubbish: they tried to speed up resin casting! There's been some QC issues in the past, and there's inherently going to be more problems with big wide flat things like you find in tank kits. Things like swords warping are unavoidable, if you don't want to deal with that then just don't buy resin, but personally I'm happy that we have the option to get some of these more-esoteric kits.
But the bottom line is that if you're asking for resin to be as cheap and problem-free as styrene, then you're asking for people to be dramatically underpaid. If you accept the prices GW charges for their excellent styrene figures, then the prices they charge for Forgeworld resin are honestly actually pretty good in comparison.
I think the GW mono-pose models look absolutely great as display pieces, truly second to none. But to me, when they're part of a larger force the dramatic poses stand out awkwardly, especially when they are repeated several times throughout an army.
I see multi-pose kits the same as painting an army with a basic paint job that is applied consistently. It looks fantastic when it's all put together even though the individual models might not be the best painted.
the problem I found with multipart is that in RNF games it doesnt matter because you'll end up with a lot looking the same anyway. The ones that dont may look weirdly or unnaturally posed.
Expecting TOW to have a completely new range of miniatures is wildly unrealistic. Even 40k releases don't refresh more than 20% of any existing army, and that's for the most profitable mainline game by GW. TOW is a niche product and as such seems to be outperforming initial expectations, at least if we look at the pre-orders and the fact that the first official battlereport on youtube is approaching Leviathan's view count.
But you don't start a new edition reboxing 35 year old molds at top boutique price...
@@VirakotxaThere is a thing called inflation. Expecting the minis to cost the same as 15-20 years ago is folly. Some are even cheaper. The Ushapti are cheaper, the Tomb Guard are cheaper.
@@martinjrgensen8234 Not judging how well you're doing, but if the price hike of GW's plastic, for the last twenty years, was into everything else, starvation would be a serious concern.
The absurd profit on their side can sometimes be justified by the better quality and detail... (For an addict) Not here...
@@Virakotxa I'm not a fan of the increasing 3D 'detail' on newer GW figures, extra detail is fine if you are painting a single figure but it just adds loads of time when army painting and that detail can't be seen from 2-3 feet away on the table anyway
I absolutely love how all of your thumbnails and titles are deranged furious anger but then the podcast itself are the chillest nicest calmest people on the planet lol
As a Mancunian I'd just like to say it's great having beach front property now. :P
Genius comment!
@@thepaintingphase I try 😁
There’s actually a beach in Salford 😂
I completely agree about the meme lords. I feel like they mostly don’t actually know anything about the lore, at least on a deeper level. Like they’ll refer to Khorne like he’s just some big dude with anger issues, rather than some unknowable cosmic ball of emotion.
And I think Geoff is spot on that they are mostly people who don’t collect, paint etc and because they are just looking at the surface level at something they have a passing interest in they just boil everything down to its simplest most obvious parts.
Gw Sycophants definitely do exist lads!! Ive seen them in action 😂
Whoever asked that Forgeworld resin question was clearly and incredibly handsome, intelligent, and inciteful person! :P Glad Geoff agrees with me tbh. There is no other product out there that I would spend 3 or 4 figures on and not accept it being perfect. Can you imagine buying a £2grand TV and being ok that there's a dropped pixel?
As a New Zealander, I do appreciate the Question, and the Answer as well. The prices are, to be honest, naffing nuts, and it's very iffy on some of the older models on how much work they require, I remember my resin Vindicator being bad, till I pretty much boiled the resin shell and wrapped it around the plastic frame as soon as it came out of the water to get a good fit.
Luckily, most of the ones I pick up now are new releases, so are very new casts, and don't have many issues, but I have had to send in for replacement parts when one of my HH Thousand Son kits (was just missing a sprue), took a couple of weeks to get the parts (bout as quick as could from other side of the world), so at least customer service was good. Am tossing up if I get the new Thousand Sons Consul, nice model.
The Canadian media rule is due to cultural erosion from the US. For reference, Canada is half the population of the UK, and the US is over five times the population of the UK. So we get a lot of cultural bleed-over from the US. The rule for Canadian produced content helps to stop us become US-lite (this coming from a Brit who emigrated to Canada and didn't understand why it was done this way at first).
Oh, it is very much different here in the Northeast US (NY area). All everyone is talking about in GW land is Old Hammer. Legion Imperialis is forgotten about. And, yes, people are buying all the things for Old Hammer...books minimum, lots of boxed sets going out, in addition. Whether it lasts or not, yes, I think remains to be seen as with anything. But the hype and the purchases are real.
The Canadian law that scuppered WH+ was actually a language bill. Under this bill, any commercial service available in Quebec must be available in French. For whatever reason, WH+ and/or the app does not satisfy the qualifications of the bill. It's weird because WH+ is kind of a streaming platform, kind of a gaming app, and kind of a marketing device, but for whatever reason, because it's not French enough, you can't subscribe here.
FWIW Canada does have laws re: broadcasting content that a certain amount has to be of Canadian derivation. I think this law was first brought into effect out of concern that local Canadian broadcasting would be simply overwhelmed by American content.
No issue with Space Marines being poster boys. I do have an issue with Space Marines getting a disproportionate number of releases every year, when compared to other factions. We're on the 3rd iteration of scouts, 3rd iteration of Terminators. Theyve had a swathe of new units every year, even since 10th edition theyve had a bunch of new units and will be getting more. Meanwhile, we're still sat on the 1st iteration of Warp Spiders from 1994, 1st iteration of Wracks, etc etc. New releases for Necrons in 10th were a couple of characters, AdMech got a single character unit. Theres already 2 new units for Dark Angels - another flavour of Marines. And we're pretty confident there will be similar for Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc.
I think its that part of the "poster boy" position people are frustrated with
Agree with the memes- spent a long time painting and converting my ultramarines force, and didn’t put that effort in for some eejit to go ‘HuR -sMurFs!’ -NO!!! 😂
Originally, memes were a witty simplification of a more complex concept, used by geeks as an inside joke. But as always, if something catches on, it ultimately becomes dumb. Nowadays, memes are at best a misrepresentation or at worst misinformation disguised as stale "jokes" - a form of shorthand communication among the ignorant, uninformed and ultimately dumb. Into the sea with all of them. Good riddance!
The Canadian thing is partially because you need Canadian content, but mostly because Quebec forces French content, which there is none on Warhammer+
Really refreshing to hear people talk about these aspects of GW and it not to descend into real negativity. Great to hear you guys chat as always.
I'm not a big fan of negative hobby channels, and I find that most of them are just chasing clicks and likes for Ad revenue. I generally don't watch them, and sometimes the videos aren't that negative but they've used a negative click baity title.
Not a miniature related hope, but I wish Creative Assembly would get their shit sorted this year and make good new content for Total War Warhammer again.
The stock situation is not good. So wanted to get into Imperalis and an intro day at my LFGS on the 26th of this month. Because there has been next to no stock since release date, I can't even build a force in time for the event. Not great for a new game system.
I've been out of the hobby (40K) since not long after 4th edition, having started during 2nd edition with og Necrons. Binging your podcasts has reignited my interest, and I'm now eagerly awaiting a Hierotek Circle Killteam set to arrive in the post. So thankyou you guys for reanimating this rusty Necron 🤘
Enjoyed the chat gents. I'm definitely in the camp of not being able to get new releases because they sell out in 30 seconds can be left in 2023.
As an old Fantasy player I like that I can get what looks like a better rules set and then get my old armies out of the loft - so will buy the books but not the minis and have a few fun games and maybe an odd one day tournament - but hope it stays casual and people don't start screaming about 'meta' and 'balance updates'
I am glad memes can stay lol But, I do I think certain ones can get in the sea especially the ones about hiding what you buy or how much you spend on wardollies from your partner. FOMO can get in the sea. I think GW could do a better job of addressing pre-orders and re-printing stuff. However, there is nothing stopping you from painting up what you already have and just enjoying the hobby for yourself and not getting as caught up in the new shiny stuff. 2024 enjoy hobbies for yourself and be less concerned with how others want to enjoy theirs :)
As much as I dislike GW's FOMO policy, and honestly in my opinion it's not just them doing a "bad job" with printing stuff and warehouse organization but simply the way they intend to do it (just my thought of course), it's actually helping me painting a lot of stuff that I still like and has been sitting there for years. I have a lot of very old models that I love and not getting new stuff (because sold out in 2 hours) made me look at them again and I became thrilled to paint or re-paint them... so, FOMO is actually good for me in an unexpected way lol
Had a real interest in getting into the old world and was set to pick it up but with no starter set and £325 for both factions, im out.
Not gonna lie but that thumbnail looks like a video titled "40 years of warhammer, a hobbyists journey from his youth to his later years".
Well, this thumbnail has all the intrigue.
**plonks squarely in the Watch Later pile**
Seriously, guys your thumbnail game is ace. Looking for are to finding out what the heck's going on when I have time later :)
The physical book thing gets me too. I really want a physical book to help me digest the rules, so I tried to buy the mini rulebook fromm GW, but their website was broken.
Multi pose vs monopose - I have > 120 Ork Boyz in the older sculpt. I have built the same model 6 different times with a different head. Poses are identical. I didn’t do it on purpose.
As someone who got into Fantasy via Total War I am very happy to have the Old World released but I do recognise that some of the sculpts are lacking in this day and age.
Also very sad to see my beloved Dark Elves not getting support :'( Malekith shall not forget such a slight!
Buy Dark Elves, Use them as High Elves, vast majority of units have direct analogue.
Buy Dark Elves, use them as Dark Elves, vast majority of community will have zero issue & will cheer you on.
@@GrarlTheExaltedthis. I’ve bought an AoS seraphon army and I’m running them as Lizardmen. Enjoy your hobby!
If you're not into tournament play, I reckon you could still fashion yourself a beautiful Dark Elf army and have fun with the pdf rules. If you are into tournament play, we'll have to wait and see but I can imagine you won't be alone in wanting to play along, and I would not be too surprised if local tournament organisers would allow those factions into their leagues.
@@GrarlTheExalted that's great to know thank you :)
More into 40k but I love the old world and Warhammer Total War series. There's just something about ranks upon ranks of units marching to battle that just looks incredible, makes AoS looke like a skirmish. I hope it works out but they probably need to drastically simplify the rules. One further point - it's unrealistic to expect a range refresh on that scale for a brand new game when they can't tell if it will be a success or not (rightly, by seemingly most comments). If it is a success, they'll support it and update, but you can't expect entire ranges of new models for all armies on launch
The difference is that for AoS miniatures are important, but for ToW models they are just wound tokens, and a unit is one creep. This is why many players cheat with fillers.
And one more thing: a battle is not a parade; in real history, every formation broke down quickly and turned into a dump.
I feel like Get in the Sea is the grown up way of saying go fish.
I personally put a lot of time into every figure I paint, because I enjoy the process - but I don't sit down at the computer and say "I need to find a video teaching me how to paint slower and more relaxed." Whereas a person who'd like to maintain more-or-less the same standard of painting but get finished faster *does* go looking for a video on how to simplify and accellerate their painting. So I'm sure that's a factor in why "Speed Painting Technique (TM)" is the most common subgenre of "how to paint minis" videos.
TOW looks like it's been a major success. Sold out everything in hours. Though whether it remains as successful, we will wait and see.
I think it’s hyped rebirth, I just don’t know if it’s got the momentum to keep going.
I can’t wait to get into old world, tho will wait for either goblins or elves to come out. Love the game format with block units, feels like a real old school battle. Guess it’s different strokes for different folks
Really frustrating number of ads on this weeks video. Hard to enjoy with a pop up every 5 minutes.
Really sorry, it’s not our doing. Pat is investing, again sorry.
GW's insane pricing. I get that inflation is a thing but their price hikes have always outstripped inflation. Honestly its put the breaks on me buying kits I want to fill out my Necromunda, 40K, and AOS forces.
Speaking of posable 3d printed models, Adamant Arsenal is doing a second Mecha kit right now, and he's come up with a rather interesting double ball joint that allows you to basically put the model together without gluing arms, legs and torso on, and then pose it like how you'd pose an action figure, and only then glue everything together. Doesn't matter what resin you're using to print the guys, 3d printer resin isn't designed for action figures, so you're gonna have to pick a pose and glue everything to that pose.
Or alternatively you could use an FDM printer to print the ball sockets, that way you could legitimately keep the guys as action figures. The whole set including stretch goals is 25 euros. Fucking brilliant value when compared to a lot of guys who'll make an STL set that's not even full models, just bits for marines and sell it for 60 euros.
Record sales of VPNs in Canada eh?
I think pat and Geoff can get in the sea after a few of these takes
What Geoff was saying about how some memes sometimes have more of an impact due to the fact that people invest a lot in their army is VERY relatable. I have an ark army that have purple armour as I think that purple and green look lovely together. I can never post an image on reddit or in a Facebook group without the comment of "nice base but where's the Ork?" it was funny the first time but super tiring now, and kinda puts me off sharing them XD
I really enjoyed this episode, a lot of cool things discussed.
i think if peachy was here, he would of taken you to town about your silly Oldworld take XD
Agreed! Utter nonsense 😂👍
Who ever slated the gw files is Bob on. Just buy cheep needle files and a wore brush to clean em
The canada issue simple solution? Imperial mounted arbites
Yessssss!
Ive watched 25 mins of this and had 4 ads for domino's pizza THAT CAN GET IN THE SEA
With the monopose thing, my experience probably comes from a rare point of view (maybe) of just wanting cool looking minis regardless of gameplay, but monopose limits the loadout of what a model can have
The models I have in mind with the problem is death guard: most every model and every piece of the model is near unique, so combining the 2 unique arms I want is most likely not the intended arms to fit the model.
On the other hand, making drukhari scourges let me do that, with all the wacky weapon combinations I wanted (like the longest sniper and a whip)
I understand why GW wouldn’t really care about this viewpoint as it discourages the initial purpose of the model- the gameplay.
But that’s just my 2p worth
is it just me or are there ads legit every 3 mins!? it makes watching a nightmare!?
Didn’t get that many but on some vids I do. If they put an ad every 4 minutes I downvote and close the video and unsub.
For me Legions Imperialis can get in the sea along with The Old World - no offence to the people who like them but it feels like GW's stock issues are bad enough without adding entire new game systems into the mix.
That said, Arbites Exaction Squad is in stock in a few places online right now! Most of the other "rare" Kill Teams are available too. Although I regret not getting one of the other Kill Team boxes as I want a full set of boarding actions and the other half as a Kill Zone is like £90.. might as well buy a full set.
On that note GWs terrain pricing can get in the sea.
Part of the problem with the paint as fast as possible issue is the constant cycle of context creation colliding with the unending release schedule from GW, and both are hurting the community because it cripples people into not painting because they don't think that they can take the time to learn to paint, including making mistakes and starting over while also drowning them in a pool of unbuilt plastic that they may never get to. Maybe instead of it being new year new army it should be enjoy your army at your own pace.
Honestly a lot of my painting videos are very close to real time. I try to edit to make it quicker but still racking up at least 30 minutes to paint one mini. Another great video guys. GET IN THE SEA 😂😂😂
Yea I’m with y’all on the let’s keep monopose. Haha I actually love when they’re fully built already. I print fully built models and love it. I like that Dave’s Ravaged Star has fully built models. They just look good!
The app issues is simple IMO. They should adopt a credit system like Audible. Get one credit on starting the subscription to unlock a faction with the app. Then every 4 or 6 months gift an extra credit to the user. If they want to purchase another codex then they can and unlock it as normal. That way the mega nerds with loads of armies can pay for the flexibility, but a person with a casual one army can get their book "free".
GW Killa Kans are also a ball and socket design. They were designed that way due to having plenty of options, both in terms of rules and models and the bits from that kit are also fully interchangeable with the Deff Dread kit.
(The rant.............. And so it begins.....)
That idea of interchangeable parts was the bedrock of all Ork kits from around 4th edition to 7th edition and actually pre dates it to 3rd edition when the multi part Boyz kit came out. (We now have a slightly changed version of that same kit)
The Shoota Boyz and Slugga Boyz, Lootas, Burna Boyz, Runtherd, Stormboyz and Mekboy can all be kit bashed without any chopping of parts.
The same can be said for any Boy model that came on a Bike, Battlewagon, Trukk, Deffkopta, Stompa, Gorkanaut or Jet kit.
That same pattern was followed with the interchangeability of parts in the Nobz, Flashgitz and Meganobz kits.
That level of kit bashing was so easy and fun to do even for beginners. Just throw all of your bits in a box and have at it.
That in itself surely adds value? Creativity? Extra fun?
It was promoted by GW, encouraged by White Dwarf and embraced by the community.
From roughly 1999 to 2017 that was the norm and that was the culture of the Ork hobby community.
It was very unusual to see any two Ork armies looking the same and new players were encouraged and helped to do it.
In 2018 all of that changed with the release of the Buggies.
All monopose, no options, little to no left over bits, unfinished sections underneath the buggies. Hell, even the Ork heads between each kit were deliberately made with different sizes and styles or had different connection points. :/
Next came the Beast Snagga release and the current Combat Patrol.
Little to no options in many of the kits, monopose, models sliced in really awkward ways, forced load outs that don't make any sense.
Less and less options in kits and rules.
Now I see plenty of Ork armies looking exactly the same with multiples of the same unit and I also see the Ork hobby community embracing those changes and in turn making Orks of all things just as regimental as any other army.
It is coming from both directions. New GW kits and tournament play.
Lore like ''No two Ork vehicles should look the same'' was known by all Ork players for years and has quickly been forgotten.
I can see where the monopose VS posability debate with Marines could be seen as a moot point due to the nature of many Marine armies, but that same argument with Orks is totally different because for years we were actively encouraged by GW to kit bash and create models that GW had rules for, but didn't make mini's of.
GW encouraged us via White Dwarf articles, stories and rules to loot and kit bash other ranges into the Orks.
GW gave us pages full of weapon options to choose from, knowing very well that we had a bits box full of left over parts, so it didn't matter if that weapon didn't specifically come with the unit we were buying.
GW would give us tons of extra bits and bobs to mix and match and we rarely ever needed instruction manuals or a hobby knife.
Did some in the community take it further with hobby knives, plasticard, toys and historical vehicles? Yes, but the entry point for a custom unique army was very small.
GW made all of that the norm, only for them to change it and act like it wasn't ever a thing.
And now people are wanting new models regardless of the downfalls of the kit itself.
I recently put together the new monopose Boyz kit from the Combat Patrol....... omg what a chore on so many levels.
Do they look nice? Some of them do and some of them don't, but receiving a couple of nice Ork Boyz only to be given a weird forced weapon load out that I've never seen anyone use, half a Nobz face is missing, no extra Boy heads and the kit itself goes together pretty horribly and you are basically forced to use the instructions due to the slicing of the models.
After that experience I didn't want to make another 10 and struggled to get anyone to buy my last 10.
I have never had that same negative building experience with any other Ork kit, including the metal, finecast or FW ones.
To make it worse, GW have since released those new Boyz in a Battleforce and possibly again shortly in an upcoming box.
I have a ton of converting and scratch building experience, but even I don't want to work with that kit again.
The new Mega armoured Warboss has no options at all. The leader of the most unique rag tag faction is the same from army to army and it doesn't even have rules to use something different.
The pattern continues.
No doubt that will be the direction of a new Killa Kan kit and that direction is personaly draining all the love I had for something from 1999 til now.
The limited rules and options was one thing because we could always get around that with model creativity and a bits box, but limited bits within the recent kits are now making bits boxes less of a thing and that is yet another part being ripped out of the Ork hobby community and yet another part contributing to many Ork armies looking the same.
It isn't just a monopose VS posable thing for me.
It's a less bits for your money thing, it's a change a community overnight thing, it's a less options and rules thing, it's a less creativity thing.
It's promoting something totally opposite to what drew me to that army in the first place. It's night and day really....
I don’t think TOW needs to “get in the sea”, I suspect it will slowly erode off the cliff and fall in there naturally. It’s WFB but a bit different with less armies and what have always been shit skeleton horses.
Thankfully when WFB died, I picked up Infinity and it completely reshaped the way I look at games. One of the key changes for me is I don’t want to paint a 28mm army of 100+ models, that’s what 6mm is for 😂
So The Old World for me is a nice thing for those who long for that type of games, with those specific models, from that specific company.
It’s not for me anymore. And that’s okay.
From what I’ve seen of TOW, I am intrigued to play it. I will dust off my Tomb Kings, 3D print some stuff I want, and MAYBE buy the books. I’m not laying out the cash for 20 year old models and bigger bases. My friends who are interested and I will play some games out of nostalgia, but I’m not investing a lot in this reboot.
The only real measure of the Old World's "success" is the behavior of its fans. If fantasy fans behave the same way as on the Internet (that is, constantly attack Warhammer Age of Sigmar and its fans) even on OFFICIAL events, then GW better immediately close that Old Word as harmful to the reputation of a “family-friendly” company.
I would 100% pay $10 a month for full access to digital codexes. I would still probably buy my primary armies codex, as I prefer a physical medium, but being able to double check an opponent's rule would be nice, or even looking into if an army is something I would want to play. Instead, I just use Wahapedia instead of paying GW any money.
I am not tossing 40K into the sea, but this whole focusing on rules that can hold for a tournament and blah blah blah needs to be kicked into the sea harder than the Ottawa Silver Seven punted the Stanley Cup into the Rideau Canal, it just makes for a worse experience for everyone else. Give us a book with "COMPETETIVE" rules, and then a book with fun rules. Also don't change them every 5 minutes after launch.
The primaris range for 40k isn't yet completed - how can you expect The Old World to launch with a completely new miniatures range then?
Although, you have to take into account that TOW requires more models as compared to AOS for example. Given that, you cannot release brand new, shiny and expensive units - how would you afford the game then?
See the success of the CA games is what GW are banking on to sell Old World imo, thats a huge audience that simply refuses to engage with AoS but still is open to tabletop fantasy.
This is the stupidest thing in the world, “refuses”, why? Religion doesn't allow it?
And what will you say WHEN the next Total War game will be in the Age of Sigmar Setting, simply because fantasy has been milked dry?
"Which Elements of Warhammer Should Remain in 2023?" For me, literally, Only the Old World. NoSquareNoCare(anymore)
I wonder, with generational changes/instant reward seeking hobbyists. Will there even be an ability to get stuck in and make a 150-200 model Fantasy army? It's a lot of work. See the "unit fillers" GW is advertising.
Warhammer Fantasy Battles died for three main reasons (pet peeves and easily fixable stuff like game balance aside):
1) Overly complex, archaic, 100+ page rulebook that was a lot of effort to learn for little reward.
2) Too expensive, unaffordable to engage in even as a mere collector.
3) Lack of support.
The game did die for a reason but it wasn't the IP or basic concept. Sadly Old World has repeated ALL THREE errors. The game has been set up for fail.
I think it's a little early to make that conclusion.
I would say that depends on what GW's target for success or failure is. To put it very bluntly: how much of it are they required to sell, in function of what it costs to produce, in order to make the profit targets they set out to achieve?
Given that so far they're basically selling out, I'd wager that as far as they are concerned, so far they are on-track vs. expectations.
You forgot another problems:
1. Generic setting that allows you to use non-original models: historical knights and landsknechts, just skeletons, generic elves and so on.
That is, an ALTERNATIVE: instead of buying expensive GV models, you can buy an alternative, which is now especially painful in connection with 3D printing.
2. The toxic community of grognard gatekeepers. Who are completely not happy with new people in their elite club.
Tbh I don't mind the Desolators. They look stupid but they look like stupid ridiculous anime characters, I kind of like the specific brand of comical over the top-ness and it works well for space marines, they're fun.
Also, as a new zealander- I have never, and will never, buy a forgeworld kit!
I'd leave high prices and scarcity in 2023. The most depressing parts of the hobby, for me, are: feeling like the price is always going up, you'll eventually get less product for your money, and you might just not get the product you wanted anyway.
I often wonder if it's ever occurred to GW that they might make more money if they made more product and sold it for slightly cheaper.
A codex should be a lore and modeling book only
It could even have a few battles to play out, Lore on Cold Steel Ridge, how to paint Ultramarines on snow.. then say hay, go find a Tryanid player and act it out. (no rules) Then do thin 12 times, that's a book i'd buy for each faction.
For a third option around codices, you should be able to purchase a digital unlock for rules only. It's, say, 30% of the actually book cost and you have all the data sheets, stratagems, detachments, etc. Been collecting/playing 40k for years. I'm drowning in old edition rulebooks and codices that have very little use to me anymore. The Blood Angel lore doesn't move all that fast to make me want the same story re-hashed again. I genuinely don't want to make more space in my home for books I don't care for outside of what I can essentially get from Wahapedia for free.
The Old World: I've got a lot of FB figures, but there were some I didn't get when they were available last time, so if they become available again I'll buy them.
That's all.
No interest in playing it, no interest in picking up new armies, I want to fill gaps in my old collection without paying insane Ebay prices
Do you mean "from 2023" or "to 2024." Great content as always - What's the best music to have playing while wargaming?
Apparently the Canada thing is because Quebec passed a law requiring all services and products to be provided with a French language version available.
I 100% agree with FOMO getting straight out of 2024! I was hung up wanting to get into the Old World but I don’t have the capacity to start fresh in a new expensive game right now, but seeing everyone putting in their pre orders just makes me feel completely left out and I hate it! I’ll lean into my new Cities of Sigmar army! Here’s to a better 2024!
Buy some movement trays and use 'em as empire! 😎
@@Raygun9000 that’s a great idea!
@@VentiChristopher you don't necessarily need square bases on your models. But it might be worth making a scenic front rank in square bases so you can match your opponents bases.
*Good luck!
Hmm I disagree on the lack of competition to GW - despite what they want people to think. Again, tin hat time again, but I believe the reason GW made anything free is they saw what was happening with One Page Rules where everything is free, and they have a great free army builder app. Seeing as OPR originally had very similar armies (it was designed for GW armies) and people liked the simplicity and alternative actions rather than IGYG, their response was to go online aswell..
Super not fussed about TOW, but respect to those that are. Just not my cup of tea, Got 40k and AoS going already and that’s practically a full time job. 😂
I think the problem with "play what you want" lists is that since GW insistis on scaling rules to tournament stats you have no assurance that a list you like will remain balanced, not to mention the drastic changes to some armies between editions. I started at the end of 9th with DG+ChaKnights and because of rules changes i cant field my $300 knights anymore. Its hard to invest in anything when i dont know if it will remain playable. A buddy has played sonce 4th with Sisters, hasnt won in ages, and effectively left the hobby bc SoB were so consistantly neglected
Tournaments and the competitive scene are far from the real enemy in 40k. You can't fault someone for wanting to own the best army/build, but you can certainly fault someone for being a nob at the table. 40k is a complex game with multiple gotchas and bad experiences if both players aren't approaching the game in the same way - as a collaborative yet competitive game. In short, as always, don't be a nob and respect your opponent's time!
I would argue the Gravis Captain has been the first primaris unit to be refreshed. The original Gravis Captain from the 8th edition starter kit (which honestly looked kinda bad) is now unavailable and looks quite different to the current Gravis Captain kit imo 🤷♂️
Damn! You’re right.
As someone who has been continuing to play Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition since it was discontinued, It's not about having a complete range refresh of new models. It's just great that I'll be able to buy additional units for my armies without spending hundreds of pounds on eBay. It's also nice to know there's new rules/content being made for the game I enjoy.
Imperial Guard and Citis of Sigmar should be the posterboys for the two settings, they are the most relatable factions. Neither are it genetically modified psychoindoctrinated killers (because that's what they are, and if GW would stop marketing them as the finest paragons of humanity, a lot of the problems we have in the hobby community might be alleviated) nor immortal sky-warriors made from reforged souls. Both factions are perfectly fine to have in the setting, but they don't need to be the faces of the franchise. Show me how a regular mortal reacts to the setting, it's much easier to get the grim-darkness across this way.
2 years unopened?...pfft amateur, i have blisters I bought 30 years ago I haven't got around to opening yet 🙂
Negative GW channels into the sea: depends on what you mean. I think we can keep a balanced perspective and not be negative all the time but we should absolutely call GW out for terrible business practices like not crediting artists for their work. I’m not saying be negative all the time but some things are wrong to just willfully ignore all the time. The community has a voice and power. Just look at wizards of the coast with their attempt to restrict their open gaming license in DnD. The community stopped that fiasco not company good will.
I never understood the desolators. Some gravis armoured devastators is what I would have liked. (Speaking as a non player who just likes the models)
Down side of relying on online apps for points, etc, is that when the app becomes unsupported for whatever reason (eg, when GW comes out with the next version of 40K a decides to drop support for the last version even if you don't want to upgrade) then you pretty are stuck.
This to an extent happened with X Wing. Points moved on to an app, and now is all over the place. I have a lot of X Wing miniatures, and think we have played 1 game in about 4 years (and on that we ignored points as just introducing someone to the game)
I dont know if anyone has already mentioned this. But with regards to Canadians not being able to access the Warhammer+. Its because of Language laws passed in the province of Quebec that are effecting the rest of the country. From what I understand its cause Warhammer+ cannot currently be streamed in French.
Players moan about the models not available for all 40k players, yet wfb players have had to deal with scalper prices for years now with no option but to pay. Now we are getting new stuff, and people are complaining that we stuck with it. Strange.
I honestly think Warhammer old world is being designed to fail Just get what money they can get out of the older players and it will die death in a year or so.
But by the most part only older players will play it and they’re just getting their armies out of the attic and they get a few nostalgia sales.
Games workshop have two main games and the support for this will be nowhere near what 40,000 gets or age of sigma, and they’re not going to kill Age of Sigma for old world.
There’s no money in how they’ve rebooted old world it’s been done on the cheap .
If i remember correctly it 30% of the content is to be made in Canada so just some show would a fix even production company doing stuff may also work, it a response to being flooded by American shows ie a cultural life line.
Terrible take on TOW 🙈
Sorry. I just don’t see it going anywhere. I do hope I’m wrong - Geoff