#TaxtheChurches
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- On this episode of FFRF's Ask An Atheist, we discuss financial privileging of tax-exempt churches with Professor Ryan T. Cragun. Professor Cragun is a prominent sociology professor at the University of Tampa and a sociologist of religion.
Learn more about the Freedom From Religion Foundation at ffrf.org.
A mammoth real estate portfolio that is tax exempt? Let's fix that.
The Fundagelical mega churches REALLY need to be taxed!
Absolutely, tax them. No person, no group, or no organization should be exempt from paying taxes.
Any government behavior that privileges the organizations of believers over nonbelievers is a violation of the establishment clause
Your logic is sound, but the united states fought a war over taxation without representation. If you tax religion they will then "deserve" a say in government. At least in theory.
Now I know its a straw man argument and that churches already hold considerable sway over politics. But by not taxing them you could in theory deny them a say in government. That was why they are exempt. But you're right it doesn't seem to work either way.
Any church that talks about politics to the congregation MUST be taxed.
Who's going to turn 'em in? Worthless without enforcement.
I did some research and found the operating budget for the Catholic church in the U.S. is $170 billion.You can find different amounts but all are in the multi billions.The Catholic church has land holdings of over 177 million acres, all tax exempt.Crazy !
Crazy stuff . if Only half of this budget was given to the scientific research Communities All of human ailments will be cured
Don't conservatives complain about people who pay no taxes yet get government benefits?
Hypocrisy is just the normal human brain state.
We could fix alot of problems if churches was taxed and if corporations actually paid taxes
If I pay a gym for my physical health, it gets fully taxed.
If I pay a church for my 'spiritual' health it pays zero tax.
Consistency?
The term (love offering) makes the leaders of religions wealthy, as that money is tax-free And in mega-churches ... it is big-time money. There is always a way to get around paying taxes, if one knows how to manipulate the system, and these most popular preachers, such as televangelists ... are experts at how to manipulate.
I suggest that the first ancient people to start religious myths, were desperate to understand (for instance) why they were suffering.
Making up stories that gods were punishing them for sin, was a ridiculous story, but to them, (who didn't know of any science whatsoever) ... it was better than no "explanation" at all.
Today, we have science that makes it impossible for some people to still invest faith in those ancient myths ... but most people don't study science, and that is why they stay "captivated" by those ancient fear-filled myths.
Thank you! I was about to mention John Oliver's Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption, for a specified time, no problems.
Churches need to pay for the Indian Boarding School atrocities investigation to start.
We're prohibited from making any laws respecting an establishment of religion. However, when churches own other properties, and engage in businesses, those are not establishments of religion. Those other activities are a main source of money that continues to strengthen tax free churches. They tend to grow into mega- businesses and investments. Why can't their properties, businesses, investment and non religious but remunerative activities be taxed?
When I worked at Revenue Canada NPO's (Non Profit Organization) were not taxed on the money used for their stated charitable purpose. However, all income from investments was taxable. I am of the opinion that churches should be held to the same standard as other non-profits.
Exactly! It's a reasonable to separate charitable funds from others and tax everything that doesn't fall under the former category.
The churches *SHOULD* be taxed but they should *NOT* be allowed to get involved in politics because religion and politics should be kept a figurative *million miles apart!*
Two viewers think it's OK for god to keep stealing from humanity. Great interview, thank you ffrf and Prof. Cragun.
If any meaningful opposition to the tax exemptions came about, the Christian persecution complex would kick in, and the churches would play the victim. All we really want is to get rid of the special treatment.
We should tax every religion that makes a profit. As soon as you're making profit, you're in business. Maybe a good idea to check the definition of a business and see if that helps your case. Wishing you the best of luck.
It's a shame we can't get all atheists together. Because we could change this if we all decided to register as a religion. Then the dent in revenue should shake things up.
I agree ! so let's get together please. Let's start on our local level ( country etc) and see whether we can convince other atheists to join. I will gladly do it. As a Swiss I never paid a dime to any church because I officially declared myself an atheist since the moment I had to pay taxes. In my country we can do that. This is called democracy and freedom !
You should join the Satanic Temple. If they get tax exempt status then I'm sure that would make some serious waves with the Talibangelicals.
To be clear, I think "religions" should pay taxes - all taxes. While calculating the benefits of taxing religion, what are the downsides of that kind of a tax? Obviously, the churches would not have as much money to spend on whatever, but what would the public lose?
As much as I want to tax the churches. I think it's not happenin.freakin sad
Thanks for mentioning ZAPPA. Please do so as often as possible
About 2 to 10% of church income goes to charitable causes. The reason we don't know the exact amount is because it's allowed to be hidden. Most of their income is spent on marketing to expand themselves. They should absolutely be taxed.
12:28 Reminded me of John Oliver's "Our lady of perpetual exception" church. Ha you know it 36:40
@3:27 "[I]f we treated religions like corporations, which some people may say that's not a fair comparison..."
"But besides the danger of a direct mixture of Religion & civil Government, *there is an evil which ought to be guarded agst in the indefinite accumulation of property from the capacity of holding it in perpetuity by ecclesiastical corporations. The power of all corporations, ought to be limited in this respect. The growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses.* A warning on this subject is emphatically given in the example of the various Charitable establishments in G. B. the management of which has been lately scrutinized. *The excessive wealth of ecclesiastical Corporations and the misuse of it in many Countries of Europe has long been a topic of complaint.* In some of them the Church has amassed half perhaps the property of the nation. When the reformation took place, an event promoted if not caused, by that disordered state of things, how enormous were the treasures of religious societies, and how gross the corruptions engendered by them; so enormous & so gross as to produce in the Cabinets & Councils of the Protestant states a disregard, of all the pleas of the interested party drawn from the sanctions of the law, and the sacredness of property held in religious trust. The history of England during the period of the reformation offers a sufficient illustration for the present purpose." - James Madison, Detached Memoranda [emphasis added]
press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions64.html
If your bill, non-profit transparency reporting, were brought to legislators it would do much to shake the tree. Additionally, making apparent those that have a vested interest politically. Just raising the issue gives one an idea what the landscape looks like--the complainers would have to make themselves be known.
Scammers all. Tax them all like anyone else would be.
I echo George Carlin on this subject: they want to influence the government, then they can pay their admission fee like everyone else.
If they can sell an invisible product and charge the followers, then they can be taxed.
They sell services that they charge the attendees for, don't they?
If they are non-profit organizations, they should prove that they are not making any profit like normal, regular, law-abiding non-profit organizations.
The Amish do not pay in to social security either.
They also don't collect from it. What's your point? They DO pay federal income taxes btw.
Is that because no charities pay tax? Are churches charities?
"billions and billions"---
"There are as many untaxed dollars in churches as there are grains of sand on earth."
"We are made of star stuff. We are the way the universe has become aware of its religious charlatans."
i'm all for it, it's time the cash started moving in the right direction.
To the concern that many smaller churches would fall financially if they were to be taxed: I'd submit that they would be at liberty to create co-ops, of sorts, in order to continue their activities. So, for example, 4 or 5 congregations, or more, could share one church building and simply meet at different times.
Listen to Peter Tosh song,"stand firm".Real Atheist song.Another Pirate I say!!
it's not just about tax. these right wing States get subsidies from the government that are supposed to go for helping the underprivileged. that money never gets there though. it gets funneled to the churches. so just taxing them isn't enough.
In “left wing” states the money never reaches people either, it’s funneled through tons of different programs that aren’t run by people who genuinely want to improve cities, so it’s just an expensive mess like with the projects.
There’s an invisible man living in the sky looking down at everything we do every minute of every day. And there’s 10 things he doesn’t want us to do and if we do any of them he’ll send us to a place of fire and torture and burning and anguish for eternity. But he loves us. He loves us and he needs money. All mighty all powerful all willing, just can’t handle money.
Thanks for the now famous words of George Carlin.
Omg I love frank zappa...I’m hooked
I dont see any reason why churches would have any privileges compared to other organisations.
Thought that thumbnail looked familiar... it's from my hometown!
If we can’t tax them they should be forced to “feed the hungry, clothe the poor, care for orphans and widows” or lose their exempt status!!!
Account for every dollar that you take in. Account for every dollar that you spend to feed the hungry, cloth the poor..etc.
Whatever is left over is pure profit and MUST be taxed.
Is a Daoist following only the teaching of the Tao Te Ching considered a religious follower??
"No taxation without representation".
At least, assign a tax penalty or fine, if the entity or association is partisan to any governmental party.
The term (love offering) makes the leaders of religions wealthy, as that money is tax-free. And in mega-churches ... it is big-time money. There is always a way to get around paying taxes, if one knows how to manipulate the system, and these most popular preachers, such as televangelists ... are experts at how to manipulate.
I suggest that the first ancient people to start religious myths, were desperate to understand (for instance) why they were suffering.
Making up stories that gods were punishing them for sin, was a ridiculous story, but to them, (who didn't know of any science whatsoever) ... it was better than no "explanation" at all.
Today, we have science that makes it impossible for some people to still invest faith in those ancient myths ... but most people don't study science, and that is why they stay "captivated" by those ancient fear-filled myths.
Hi how can I further my study's with when it comes to religion and the history of atheism ?
I’m curious about what you are trying to say here. Do you think that you can restate it?
What are good book recommendations for the history of religion ?
wait a minute ! did I understand you correctly ? in the USA anybody can establish a religion and NOT pay any taxes since that moment and they don't need to justify that they have created a new religion ? just SAY in your tax declarations that you are a religion and that;'s it ? I should have moved to the USA instead of South America ( though I don't pay taxes here either because I am over 65 years old and live off my Swiss retirement money only).
Along with taxing the churches exactly the same way every other business is taxed, the churches ( mosques, temples, synagogues, etc) should also be required to display the following large prominent sign ( paraphrased from a psychic hotline disclaimer) outside their buildings:
By law, we must state that all services and programs offered here are for entertainment purposes only. You must be 18 years or older to use any program or service provided here. All guidance is subject to your own interpretation. By attending any function here, you are agreeing that any information/guidance provided does not constitute or substitute for legal, psychological, financial, medical, or business advice. You claim full responsibility for the choices and/or actions taken based on the content of what transpires here.
An exemption will be made for anyone of any age using a soup kitchen here or accepting any other charitable program offered here, if this establishment provides such services. Any such charitable function provided here is prohibited from including any religious messages whatsoever or the dispensing or display of any religious paraphernalia or pamphlets.
Catholic Church and other church biggest. Humanitarian delivers in this world nobody is going to tax it..
If church pays tax it will going to involve in your life
If Jesus were to return right now, he would level the same criticisms at our contemporary churches that he did at the Pharisees. These for-profit businesses are no different than the money-changers at the temple. And they would condemn him, just as the Pharisees did.
They are disspicable it's obvious it's just a business. One that makes claims that they never have make good on 🤔
I feel that religions should keep there tax exemptions but have to follow the same rules as other nonprofits and most importantly they should have to stay out of politics or lose that tax exemption given situation with trump
NO ! they should pay taxes. why not ?
Taxing churches is problematic because it means they'd no longer be exempt from political influence. The way I see it, there are three options:
1. The bad option: Tax the churches, and allow them to tell their flock who to support and who to vote for in elections based upon the politicians religious beliefs. (Ugh...)
2. The less bad option: Don't tax the churches, but enforce heavy fines on churches that participate in ANY political bias WHATSOEVER. (And keep in mind that enforcement will require tax dollars.)
3. The best option: Keep convincing people that their religious beliefs are completely without merit and based upon nonsense. Keep the numbers in churches declining until every religious organization is bankrupted and we no longer even need to have this conversation.
Lol option 3 will not happen to the church. Perhaps other religions. But Christianity will NEVER go bankrupt.