“THE REALITY OF HELL” - OR - OUR DISTORTED PERCEPTION OF HELL ??? 28 min mark: Question is posed: What is the best argument from atheists to not believe in God and what … is your response ?” Going by Rebecca McGlaughlin’s response to this question I couldn’t help notice a fundamental flaw in her theology Rebecca: “l happen to think atheists arguments are unpersuasive. I don’t think it’s suffering, and that’s the big recking ball from many atheists perspective that destroys Christianity. l actually think it’s the opposite. So it’s not suffering. I think the hardest question… is the REALITY OF HELL. The REALITY OF HELL IS THE HARDEST THING CHRISTIANS HAVE TO BELIEVE ACTUALLY; much harder than miracles or God’s view of sexuality or why God allows suffering. All these questions are pretty easy by comparison to HAVING A LOVING GOD AND SENDING PEOPLE TO HELL… “ This is tragic!!!!!!! Obviously in her mind God’s love and hell are polar opposites. Unfortunately by and large the Christian world sees God’s justice and mercy, judgment and salvation, wrath and righteousness as polar opposites. Yet God is light and in Him there is NO DARKNESS AT ALL. Our God is not like the dualistic gods of the heathen. There is no yin and Yang dichotomy in God’s character - He is perfect meaning singular and consistent in His personality, heart and action. “There’s no variableness or shadow of turning” in Father God. Unfortunately westernised Christianity views hell under legal punitive lenses. Hell is conceived as a place of external punishment imposed by an angry arbitrary God. Not only that, supposedly the suffering of the lost goes on for TRILLIONS of years!!!… So when it comes to this retributive model or even the annihilation model promulgated by traditional Christianity is it wonder atheists reject Christianity?!!! I don’t blame theme; I think they have a point! Unfortunately most Christians are unable to provide any satisfactory answers re hell fire in response to atheists. That’s because their idea of hell is based on TRADITION and NOT REALITY according to what the Bible prophets, apostles or Jesus say about hell. Rebecca suggests we need to take all that the Bible says on a topic and not just what Jesus said. I agree. However the fact is Jesus said more about Gehenna hell fire than any other Old or New Testament author. In fact out of the 13 references to Gehenna - the Greek word translated “hell” in most modern English Bibles, 12 of the 13 are based on the words of Jesus!!!! The apostle Paul wrote just over half the books of the New Testament, and so we’d expect him to mention hell. He doesn’t - not even once! Why? Is it because he wasn’t aware of the concept? Unlikely. But his perspective of hell is much the same as Jesus! However, although Paul didn’t write about hell he makes indirect mention to it and viewed it as GOD’S SIN CONSUMING PURIFYING FIRE OF LOVE AND TRUTH. According to Paul in God’s saving judgment ungodly WORKS are exposed and consumed not the person. - 1 Cor 3:10-15; God Himself as a sin consuming fire Heb 12:29 (See also Isa 33:14). And Paul says showing kindness to our disrespectful enemies causes burning conviction to their conscience - Rom 12:20. God’s heavenly fire of love manifested in us feels like “coals of fire on their head”. See Song 8:6. God’s unquenchable love is likened to burning flames or what Jesus referred to as everlasting fire, in other words hell! James connects Gehenna fire to the evil effect of an unregulated unbridled tongue (James 3:6). JESUS’ TEACHING OF HELL Well, what about Jesus, what did He teach about hell? ALL Jesus’ 12 references to hell are in relation to preserving Christian ethics!!! In other words in the context of restoring and protecting RELATIONSHIPS!!!! Jesus emphasised preserving moral sensitivity and integrity among our bothers and sisters. KINGDOM ETHICS Most of Jesus teachings on hell are in His sermon on the mount and directed to members of His church! The kingdom consists of a king and people and fracturing relationships fractures the kingdom. For example seeking the highest place (Matt 18:1-9), calling a brother a fool, (Matt 5:22) thinking and behaving lustfully (Matt 5:28,29) harbouring a bitter or unforgiving spirit (Matt 5: 23-26) all damage relationships. Hell awaits CHRISTIANS - not just the baddies - that violate relational integrity!!! So hell is NOT about eternal damnation as we’ve been conditioned to believe. Then there is translation biases.”Eternal punishment” or “eternal destruction” are very misunderstood and misused terms. The original Greek indicates eternal (aionious) is for an age - it is temporary. And punishment or destruction (kolasis) is an agricultural term, it has a corrective connotation relating to destruction preceding renewal! The word was originally used in relation to pruning trees by cutting off branches… God’s spirit cuts and burns anything unfruitful out of our life and character that hurts others. So I submit that IF “The reality of hell” is the hardest thing that Christians have to believe” this is ONLY because we have been viewing hell through western lenses. How tragic! We really need to rethink and redefine our picture of hell and how we communicate it to the broken world in need of healing. Hell does not have to be a stumbling block to atheists. We need to understand God’s fire the way Jesus and the authors of the Bible understood it - as a good thing. God’s fire has a positive purposeful side to it (Mal 3:1-4). Yes hell is psychologically PAINFUL. But God does not inflict physical pain on ANYONE. Imposed external punishment does not make things right or fix that which is broken. Taking moral responsibility and healing relationships fractured relationships in the kingdom is where the gospel and hell intersect. Sooner or later he’ll awaits those who compromise kingdom relationships. So the hell of God’s sin consuming presence is corrective to people and exposes and consumes lies, ungodliness and unbelief. (Mal 3:1-4; Isa 33:14; Zep 3:8; Song 8:6; Luke 3:16). Of course there is much more on this topic beyond the scope of a single comment. I challenge anyone reading this to revisit Scripture and re-examine hell a little more before blindly or unquestionably adopting tradition without reasoning it through. Jeff
1 Timothy 2:12: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."
Well, you don't have to watch it if you don't like a woman speaking.
“THE REALITY OF HELL” - OR - OUR DISTORTED PERCEPTION OF HELL ???
28 min mark: Question is posed: What is the best argument from atheists to not believe in God and what … is your response ?”
Going by Rebecca McGlaughlin’s response to this question I couldn’t help notice a fundamental flaw in her theology
Rebecca: “l happen to think atheists arguments are unpersuasive. I don’t think it’s suffering, and that’s the big recking ball from many atheists perspective that destroys Christianity. l actually think it’s the opposite. So it’s not suffering. I think the hardest question… is the REALITY OF HELL. The REALITY OF HELL IS THE HARDEST THING CHRISTIANS HAVE TO BELIEVE ACTUALLY; much harder than miracles or God’s view of sexuality or why God allows suffering. All these questions are pretty easy by comparison to HAVING A LOVING GOD AND SENDING PEOPLE TO HELL… “
This is tragic!!!!!!! Obviously in her mind God’s love and hell are polar opposites. Unfortunately by and large the Christian world sees God’s justice and mercy, judgment and salvation, wrath and righteousness as polar opposites. Yet God is light and in Him there is NO DARKNESS AT ALL. Our God is not like the dualistic gods of the heathen. There is no yin and Yang dichotomy in God’s character - He is perfect meaning singular and consistent in His personality, heart and action. “There’s no variableness or shadow of turning” in Father God.
Unfortunately westernised Christianity views hell under legal punitive lenses. Hell is conceived as a place of external punishment imposed by an angry arbitrary God. Not only that, supposedly the suffering of the lost goes on for TRILLIONS of years!!!… So when it comes to this retributive model or even the annihilation model promulgated by traditional Christianity is it wonder atheists reject Christianity?!!! I don’t blame theme; I think they have a point!
Unfortunately most Christians are unable to provide any satisfactory answers re hell fire in response to atheists. That’s because their idea of hell is based on TRADITION and NOT REALITY according to what the Bible prophets, apostles or Jesus say about hell.
Rebecca suggests we need to take all that the Bible says on a topic and not just what Jesus said. I agree. However the fact is Jesus said more about Gehenna hell fire than any other Old or New Testament author. In fact out of the 13 references to Gehenna - the Greek word translated “hell” in most modern English Bibles, 12 of the 13 are based on the words of Jesus!!!! The apostle Paul wrote just over half the books of the New Testament, and so we’d expect him to mention hell. He doesn’t - not even once! Why? Is it because he wasn’t aware of the concept? Unlikely. But his perspective of hell is much the same as Jesus!
However, although Paul didn’t write about hell he makes indirect mention to it and viewed it as GOD’S SIN CONSUMING PURIFYING FIRE OF LOVE AND TRUTH. According to Paul in God’s saving judgment ungodly WORKS are exposed and consumed not the person. - 1 Cor 3:10-15; God Himself as a sin consuming fire Heb 12:29 (See also Isa 33:14). And Paul says showing kindness to our disrespectful enemies causes burning conviction to their conscience - Rom 12:20. God’s heavenly fire of love manifested in us feels like “coals of fire on their head”. See Song 8:6. God’s unquenchable love is likened to burning flames or what Jesus referred to as everlasting fire, in other words hell! James connects Gehenna fire to the evil effect of an unregulated unbridled tongue (James 3:6).
JESUS’ TEACHING OF HELL
Well, what about Jesus, what did He teach about hell?
ALL Jesus’ 12 references to hell are in relation to preserving Christian ethics!!! In other words in the context of restoring and protecting RELATIONSHIPS!!!! Jesus emphasised preserving moral sensitivity and integrity among our bothers and sisters.
KINGDOM ETHICS
Most of Jesus teachings on hell are in His sermon on the mount and directed to members of His church!
The kingdom consists of a king and people and fracturing relationships fractures the kingdom. For example
seeking the highest place (Matt 18:1-9), calling a brother a fool, (Matt 5:22) thinking and behaving lustfully (Matt 5:28,29) harbouring a bitter or unforgiving spirit (Matt 5: 23-26) all damage relationships. Hell awaits CHRISTIANS - not just the baddies - that violate relational integrity!!!
So hell is NOT about eternal damnation as we’ve been conditioned to believe. Then there is translation biases.”Eternal punishment” or “eternal destruction” are very misunderstood and misused terms. The original Greek indicates eternal (aionious) is for an age - it is temporary. And punishment or destruction (kolasis) is an agricultural term, it has a corrective connotation relating to destruction preceding renewal! The word was originally used in relation to pruning trees by cutting off branches… God’s spirit cuts and burns anything unfruitful out of our life and character that hurts others.
So I submit that IF “The reality of hell” is the hardest thing that Christians have to believe” this is ONLY because we have been viewing hell through western lenses. How tragic!
We really need to rethink and redefine our picture of hell and how we communicate it to the broken world in need of healing. Hell does not have to be a stumbling block to atheists. We need to understand God’s fire the way Jesus and the authors of the Bible understood it - as a good thing. God’s fire has a positive purposeful side to it (Mal 3:1-4). Yes hell is psychologically PAINFUL. But God does not inflict physical pain on ANYONE. Imposed external punishment does not make things right or fix that which is broken. Taking moral responsibility and healing relationships fractured relationships in the kingdom is where the gospel and hell intersect. Sooner or later he’ll awaits those who compromise kingdom relationships. So the hell of God’s sin consuming presence is corrective to people and exposes and consumes lies, ungodliness and unbelief. (Mal 3:1-4; Isa 33:14; Zep 3:8; Song 8:6; Luke 3:16).
Of course there is much more on this topic beyond the scope of a single comment. I challenge anyone reading this to revisit Scripture and re-examine hell a little more before blindly or unquestionably adopting tradition without reasoning it through.
Jeff