Alister McGrath - from atheist scientist to Christian theologian // From The Archive
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Renowned theologian Alister McGrath tells his story of coming to faith as an atheistic science undergraduate at Oxford University
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I went from atheist to agnostic to in deep deep trouble and now I'm saved by the grace of God thank God Almighty 🙏
You're one of the sheep he left the 99 for to get
Although, I‘m still a hard agnostic, I love this interview, and think he indirectly points out the good at the core of religion.
If you exist God, bless him please on behalf of all of us.
Beautifully said
I absolutely relate to your journey. Thank God I found God.🙏
@@nerdineverythingnerdinnoth4984 what you said is so sincere
I wish all atheists respond like you with a calm heart
I can relate to this story so much after studying Biology. The complexity of DNA made me realize there has to be an intelligent creator behind it.
you didn't pay attention in school.
@@louiscyfer6944 the guy has a degree in biology and you yap about him not paying attention at school? Shows how smart you are.
psycho, yoy are a moron, he said he studied biology, where did he say he had a degree? biology is my field. if he paid attention he would have definitely realized that complexity is not the halmark of intelligent design, and dna is naturally occurring, and we recognize design by contrasting it to what occurs naturally.
@@louiscyfer6944 - Define; 'naturally occurring'! My bet is that you can't!!!
evelyn, you can't possibly be this stupid.
As Mark Twain said, he'd rather believed in God, die and find out there isn't one, than to live as if there isn't a God, die and find out there is a God
but he didnt believe in a afterlife
believing and God and accepting Him as your Lord and savior are two different things. demons and satan belive in God too
@@vaytray5510 demons aren't real defo not, but god not sure on that one
@@mrbirb-rp3lg demons do exist
@@mrbirb-rp3lg demons exist but sadly people think they're ghosts. Just look at nukes top 5, they're tons of videos of "ghosts". But they're just demons playing with them
Without Jesus Christ in our life we’ll destroy our selfs.
This is a big part of what ultimately convinced me of the truth of Christianity. Growing up in the "Bible Belt" South in the 90's, cultural Christianity was the norm. Social cohesion, stability, intact families, healthy communities, etc. As I got older, I saw the cultural Christianity slowly slipping away, and with it that stable social structure I grew up with. Then I moved to a progressive urban area at 21, and to see the cultural decay and dysfunction was a huge eye opener. Where I was from, divorce was still kind of rare and definitely discouraged. Everyone I met in the urban area I moved to seemed to come from a broken home. Obviously, the practicality of Christian belief wasn't the only thing that brought me back to faith, but it was definitely a huge part of it.
What group of people are you talking about?
Humankind? Christians? A group of Christians?
I‘m not saying religion is bad, or that God doesn‘t exist. I‘ve just found that it‘s possible for everyone to find meaning in their life, without anyone dictating you the steps, and trying to make you dependent on them.
@@nerdineverythingnerdinnoth4984 just because you've found meaning does not mean you're fulfilling your purpose... This purpose cannot be decided by oneself, because you don't own reality... And if one is to follow the philosophy of making oneself happy, then that can lead to atrocious results because without proper guidance both morality and knowledge is subjective... Both should be objective otherwise corruption will do its work.
@@coen8677 Oh hello again! I thought we should first end our dialogue in one of the top comments (I don‘t know if you noticed, but I answered), but if you want I can talk to you about this too. What do you think? I personally think we should finish our original topic, since it is more likely that we can finish the topic then, but what do you want?
@@nerdineverythingnerdinnoth4984 sure, it's just strange that I didn't receive a reply 🤔 UA-cam is meddling with our conversations it would seem...
My sister was in pain and I laid my hands on her and prayed “all pain go in Jesus’s name” and it went away instantly. Wasn’t placebo, because we didn’t believe. I was a militant atheist. A buddhist, a hindu and another friend all met Jesus during their outerbody & near death experience. Research showed during NDE; patients (including the blind) can see & recall conversations & scenes inside & outside the hospital/environment accurately, verified by staff. NDErs regardless of background (Muslims, atheists etc) if they met God, it was always Jesus. Jesus saved me completely from my lifelong suicidal & homicidal depression. I couldn’t deny any more. Jesus is the ONLY way to God and loves you more then anyone. Follow him.
Use your magic at hospitals, where children are dying in painful ways due to, for instance, bone cancer.
Why don't you do that? Because you know you are lying. Shame on you.
@@Elaphe472I do. Although 95% of patients refuse prayer so I can't do anything to help them.
Being a former athiest, i also experienced the feeling of being trapped in a limited sphere of my very existence.
I agree, atheism is rational accordingly with what the cirrent science provide. I agree too, that faith to God is behond rationality as of to the worlds standard.
While the experience of God is beyond scientific rationality, I agree, God through Jesus faith in God involves emotional and psychological "right brain" experiences that are rational from various points of view. I can say that because I´ve been extending my undergrad degree in Bio Anthro into Therapeutic Psychology, Psychosomatic Medicine, the Arts and Humanities, and so on.
Yeah, the problem of our position, as theists, whatever our religion, is that God is simply unexplaniable trough words. That's is why the mystic path exists in every religion on earth, and even in New Age, Martial Arts etc. It is something to experience trough meditation, prayers, changes in thoughts etc. Explaining this to an atheist is like explaining colors to a blind person. And I say that as a former atheist. The sad thing about many atheists though is that they are so into their reason driven world view that any word about intuition, faith, meditation, mystical experiences etc just sounds like the ravings of a mad man for them, no matter how reasonably stated.
@@marcusappelberg369 Depends... I am an atheist, and intellectually a materialist, and with that think all this can come from this world. But that doesn‘t make the feelings like glad-ness (for you probably thankfulness), inner happiness, and peace, inner calm, and wideness any less real. I don‘t know, if they are, or will ever be explained (there‘s so much in our universe, that we‘ll probably never know everything), and frankly, I don‘t care, when I feel those.
The only feeling I get fewer, and fewer times is the collective rituality with that we all are under the same great being, that I got (and sometimes still get), while I was(/am) in the church. And I hope, I someday can somehow give this feeling to someone who starves, or has never experienced it, since I also starve it sometimes.
These comments here are emotional, and because of that probably not entirely clear, but I hope that I made a little sense to you. I also hope that if you think, I got something wrong, or not covered, you‘ll write me back.
Have a great day(/night😉).
atheist. Learn to spell.
Atheism has nothing to do with science. It's simply the lack of belief in god claims. Science can't investigate a proposed supernatural, so it doesn't bother with it.
I suppose one could say that it borrows the concept of only using observation and evidence to support a claim. Perhaps that's what you meant.
“Atheism makes rational sense if you think that we are limited to what human reason can prove to be true. Christian faith is about being liberated from the prison husk of rational thought. There is more to life than what reason can discover. It’s not irrational. It goes beyond reason” wowz🙏🏽🙌🏽🌊🔥❤️
Beyond Reasoning is more reasoning stupid not doing reasoning is just being stupid,. Throwaway your Brain in a dustbin
@@Anutosh13 is it just you or are all atheists as aggressive as you?
@@ggez5266 a vast majority of them are aggressive like him. They're lost and upset, which obviously shows, so they're just redirecting their anger at Christians and going on about how they use their BIG brains that will eventually be in the ground, yet they go on about things they were taught in school without a shred of open-minded thought.
@@vohas2691 i mean you cant even blame them. When you dont believe in a higher being or higher self you lose that descipline and motivation to go on. So the frustration probably builds up and end up venting them on theists.
Yea... rational thought is a prison... but believing nonsense sets you free
Yes, God is good.
Science doesn't have ALL the answer.
Christ has, He is Truth.
What’s his answer to how to cross pollinate a hardy grain with some of high yield?
Amen 🙏
Science doesn't claim to have all the answers. That's the beauty of it. Religious people do make that claim. There isn't a scientist out there who will claim to have all the answers; they simply follow the evidence. So far, there has been no concrete evidence for any god, only feelings.
A good way to think it through is to imagine what evidence you would require to believe in a different religion and then hold your own to the same standards.
Of course "science" does not have all the answers, and they know that they'd be fools to claim that science does have all the answers. All "science" can be is that which is solely limited to what the human mind can comprehend. If anyone thinks the human mind is limitless, they're clueless. Every physical being has limits, of course. No matter how far human technology advances, there'll never be a point where it reaches anything outside of what the human mind can comprehend. Can an AI robot think outside of the box that has been built for it? No. It can only think within that which it has been programmed to think within.
That leaves the space open to ask: "Then what is outside of our (human) comprehension that we'll literally *NEVER* discover unless that "thing" outside of our comprehension chooses to reveal itself to us? Like a cell in our body has no comprehension of what we (humans) are, even though that cell is working to keep this human body in motion right now. Does this mean humans do not exist, simply because the cell (in our body) cannot comprehend what a human is? Of course not. So one must ask: Simply because God is outside of your naturalistic minds' comprehension, does this mean He does not exist?"
If all you'll ever end up with is "needing more evidence" of a god then you must also ask yourself: *What do you consider "good enough evidence" to convince you of the existence of a god to begin with?"*
What if this is more than just an intellectual, scientific curiosity we're dealing with? What if your deepest heart (spirit) within you does not genuinely want a Higher Power to have authority that goes beyond your own power, so you can do what you want in this existence and not have to answer to said Higher Power in the process?
Similar to a bunch of ants seeing a computer in the middle of the woods, and the vast majority of the ants claim that it 'evolved' on its own over millions of years, through chance, random processes, melding inside the earth, eventually pushing toward the top, its pieces being thrown together by the wind and tornadoes over millions of years and all falling into place one day? That would be an idiotic little story, all to live in denial of there being a far higher intelligent being who did build this computer and could come back one day to retrieve it, and maybe destroy those ants in the process, right? So their emotions are at play in coming up with a silly explanation on how that computer got there, not because "it's the most scientific" and not because "there's not good enough evidence of human existence." It's their bias, driven by emotions: fear and pride
Atheists try to make it seem like they're always honestly seeking for truth. It's not that easy when they know, deep inside, they do not want the truth if it means a Higher Power (God) makes the moral rules in the end, and they've to be judged according to those rules. So they cling to making up silly stories (evolution -> evildelusion) to make it seem like they're "honestly seeking truth" on our origins and proceed to not look like rebellious, temper tantrum throwing, 5 year old brats who do not want to do what daddy say to do. They want their candy for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and claim that daddy doesn't know what he's talking about when he says that candy is not good for the body in the long term, including the teeth. Stubborn ignorance doesn't care about truth, it only cares about its own selfishness, and that end is destruction.
@@VioletJoy atheists are not looking for evidence, they're looking to avoid the evidence.
Like him I believe there's more than what our mind can observe.
This is how I feel
Mind from matter is THE Unbreakable Wall in front of atheism, and modern physics as well. The act of seeing, smelling, hearing, tasting etc...aren't physical , but analytical processes. The atoms that make up your brain (and the universe) are actually able to analyze the world around you. If atoms were just physical, they couldn't analyze because analysis is a form of intellect, not physicality.
@The Den That's quite obvious and not surprising at all. But It definitely doesn't imply a deity if that's what you are trying to say. Obviously mind is limited and the universe is huge, probably infinite...
+ kyjo72682
THAT not only implies a diety - it REQUIRES a diety. The conversion from material to spiritual is NOT possible without the intervention of diety.
Chemicals cannot think, and the dead person has every chemical needed for life. BUT the SPIRIT is gone. Those chemicals do what everything else in the universe does - THEY decay. Entropy is the universal constant regardless of what the anti-science folk say.
The universe CANNOT be infinite - it had a finite beginning. That also haoppend rto require a SIPERNATURAL God.
+Paul Robinson That's not what I meant by my comment. ;) A simple assertion that there are unobserved (or non-observable) parts of our universe doesn't really say anything. You can't base any additional claims upon it about what is present in the unobserved region. We can't just put anything we want in there. There must be a working theory that also matches the observable reality. For example we know that observable part of space is getting larger with each passing second because there is more time for light to reach us from farther away. We can even roughly predict what the so far unobserved part will look like. But how do we know that? Based on theory of relativity and other theories that give us very good predictions...
About the chemicals: it's not about the chemicals per se. The important thing is the structure - a working machine that can collect information from its environment, process it and act upon it in a useful manner. Generally there can be multiple different machines each composed of different materials but performing the same function. In context of thinking machines we can already see that silicon-based intelligence has the potential to be much faster and better (at specific narrow tasks, at least) than the wet material in our brains.
On the largest scale entropy increases, yes, but in our local neighborhood we have a powerful energy source (Sun) which we can use to put off our inevitable doom.. for a while.. ;) When we die the structure decays and the machine breaks. Chemicals stay, of course..
He is really clear about Christian and Christianity.
He should be clear. He has 3 PhDs and is an ordained minister in the Church of England.
Evidence?
THAT is an opinion without evidence - he has a great DEAL of evidence for his position.
Maybe instead of making a fool of yourself, you might get an education in WHY his position is factual and NOT opinion?
He explains in such grand ways how to open the mind of the atheist through intuition. This is phenomenal.
I agree. True Christians shine with generosity and kindness at all times.
Far more pleasant man and attitude than the rasping, virulent Dawkins
I think it is not very hard to come across as more pleasant than Dawkins.
Richard Reese: So in your value system, to be pleasing is a vice. I'll stick with the babyishness.
Richard Reese Anyone who begins a grownup discussion with "Wow" (followed by a dismissal) is hardly serious about having a discussion. So either address me like a grownup, using grownup words, and making a well-thought-out response... or run along.
Richard Reese God, you're boring!
Richard Reese Must be my inner masochist.
What always amazes me is how emotional and vitriolic some of the new atheists get while they are accusing the Christian of being irrational. Not all, of course, but some get downright vicious.
Welcome to the internet.
christiany is irrational. alister even admitted it. he said christian faith liberated him from the prison of rationality.
@@louiscyfer6944 He didn't. Liberation from the prison of rationality obviously doesn't mean rejection of rationality, but putting faith in things that rationality is too limited to prove, while also continuing being rational.
peter, why would you want to put faith in anything? it would be an irrarional position. faith is not a path to truth.
@David Stanton Please, present this very strong case. Because up till now, I haven't seen any compelling evidence regarding Jesus.
An important point to make: ‘Science’ doesn’t say anything. People do. It is flawed human beings that interpret a specific piece of data, from a study which is probably also flawed. Everything you think you know about science, is really just an interpretation by flawed human beings. That’s why scientific opinion constantly changes - truth never changes, but people do.
‘Does God exist’ is not a scientific question, it’s a philosophical question. Therefore, science shouldn’t come into it at all. Science is all about ‘how things work’, philosophy is all about ‘why things work’ and ‘where do things come from?’.
Correction: "Everything you think you know about THE BIBLE, is really just an interpretation by flawed human beings."
Well science can be proven the bible cant be proven theres a difference
@@FINESTGAMER100 Science can be proven by the bias of it's own standards, obviously, and vice-versa for the Bible.
To carry on with the CS Lewis theme, if one was to observe the Scientific facts of a house trying to find evidence for it's creator WITHIN the observable facts that make up the physical house, you won't find the creator of the house, the architect, cemented into the staircase to help Science identify that it was he who built it.
What you can do, with a humble but adequate level of sophistication, is observe the context of the facts and how the facts work as a collective to build up a minds-eye "idea" of what the architect was like- his taste, style, influences, focuses... this is all found by observing the material facts which reveal certain patterns, clues, fingerprints or signals as to the mind of the architect. You still haven't met the architect and won't ever find Scientific evidence for his existence within his own creation, but clearly there is a designer/creator behind the house given it's complexity and resonance with you as the observer.
You are asking for Harry Potter to declare himself JK Rowling.
We need to understand metaphor and meaning, in addition to merely observable facts, to have a 1% chance of ever even coming close to an understanding which isn't cold, meaningless, mechanical and completely naive.
All of the clout Science has in the world is directly attributable and owing to God. The magic of Science is in the discovery and after the discovery it's just process and systematisation all stemming and indebted to the initial, paradigm-shifting discovery. The former is intelligence the later is smart. Smart is essential but just "good at following set rules/procedures". That's why the implementation of robots in society is for a circuitry called the Smart Grid and not the Intelligent Grid. It's robotic.
All the Scientific forefathers who made those paradigm-shifting discoveries that led to the Scientific method, the Fathers to your beloved Science, were religious men like Newton who maintained their faith AFTER making paradigm-shifting discoveries and despite being in a position of power over the common population where it would be so easy to the manipulate lesser minds and "play God". They didn't. Says everything you need to know about who you'd leave alone with your drunk younger sister- never ever the atheist Scientist who'd say with smug irony "But her eyes were open so as a matter of fact, she wasn't technically "passed out drunk". Yeah, them types...
The true Scientific geniuses, not modern atheist "smart" men well-drilled in processes and nothing else, who know merely how to "repeat" the processes established by better men, those originals and their beliefs blackball the whole quickly scribbled down modern atheistic argument.
There's a quote saying "The likes of Newton believed in and searched for the law of nature PRECISELY because he believed in the great law giver".
Science is a talented child whose parents have (appeared to) finally died off so, free from having to show owed respect, the child is now free to go wild. And the smarter the child, the more screwed everyone else is.
You are right. Imperfect people making wrong conclusions and people believe it. Some people believe anything a person says and does
@@FINESTGAMER100 the bible can be proven. Ask me something. It's science that a imperfect person had a theory and tries to prove it
I grew up a Christian and at 59, l am unlearning the lies of religion that made Almighty Father God impotent and irrelevant and finally into a vibrant relationship. The Biblical text was there all along for me to study, yet l was too lazy to search it for myself. Once into study, l found that faith in God and His Resurrected Son Christ Jesus is anything but blind faith. Prophetically speaking: Precise! Even to the very day that Christ Jesus entered Jerusalem for His "triumphal entry." And, even "intelligence" regarding our current endtimes events that unbelieving world leaders do not even have (Read Isaiah, Ezekiel, The Gospels, Revelation): The whole Bible from beginning to end is filled with prophecy.
HI
The trouble is that everybody DOES have faith! In the wrong things usually, like man made 'Science', or idolatrous religions, not realizing, that they don't get you anywhere.[ concerning death and damnation, I mean ] And it doesn't help one bit that many professing Christians only ever pay lip service to Jesus Christ/ Yeshua, because they don't read or understand the Bible. Hence the terrible lukewarmness Paul of Tarsus warned about has set in. Whereas a REAL, saving faith, comes only by hearing [obeying] the Word of God, [ Which consists of constant profession ' Before men' ] Shalom to you in Christ Yeshua.
that's why their world is so narrow-minded
wisdom stems from a fear of God
I bet you rely on man-made science when you get ill rather than just praying.
If you think people have 'faith' in science, don't see a doctor ever again when you get sick. Oh, and you should probably stop using the internet. And live in the grass. And don't eat food from a supermarket, scavenge corpses instead. And drink from a stream while you're at it.
Medicine, electricity, internet, telecommunications, the materials used to make your phone/computer and build your house, the preservation, sterilisation, filtration, and preparation, of your food and water respectively are all born of science.
Not only born of science, but of the principles, and methods that encompass the same path to knowledge that you so openly disparage.
+ birdman
"that's why their world is so narrow-minded "
IF by that you refer to the atheist's mind you are correct - they are very narrow-minded - and limited to what they can CURRENTLY dream up. Theoretical Science - as we are taught it - is MORE metaphysical deliberations than actual science - for many of their irrational concepts cannot be observed, measured or tested. BUT they absolutely stop short of allowing for GOD who CAN, like Gravity, be indirectly observed. Multiple universes? NOT a chance. GOD is a far more rational avenue of investigation.
ON the other hand, the Christian scientist has no such materialistic limitations on his worldview and can think BEYOND the limits of science into the possibilities of a supernatural creator - hence the preponderance of Christian scientists trough out sciences - and the founders of MOST modern branches of science - they could SEE beyond the limit of materialism.
THEY created science as we know it.
I was SO against the idea of Christianity and God then He saved me. I’m honestly still so shocked. If he can save me and love me and reveal his truth to ME, I promise you he can do it for you too. NOTHING can compare to that moment when he reaches into your heart and flips that switch. It’s unbelievable love. Thank you Jesus. Praise God.
Atheism is a philosophy. It isn’t a scientifically informed conclusion.
Wrong. Atheism is the response to a single question, "do you believe in a god?". There is NO world view.
Newton Arock
It’s way more than the response to a single question.
It’s a philosophical view of reality. It presumes generally, that the material universe is all there is. I suppose that some atheists believe in metaphysical reality without God. Buddhism might fall into that category.
If nothing exists besides the physical world, a person would have to explain the existence of it apart from the physical laws governing the universe. And all physical laws of the universe preclude that it cannot be infinite and cannot create itself. And nothing outside the material universe has been observed or tested. It’s a believe beyond science. Hence, it’s a philosophy.
@@larrytruelove7112 I stand by my original comment. You are confusing atheism with scientific thought and processes, which have nothing to do with the question, "do you believe in a god?". Atheism addresses that question, and that question alone. The world view that follows depends on the individual. That individual may or may not agree with your comment above, but it has nothing to do with being an atheist. You should talk to one someday. You may find that they agree with you on quite a lot, just not the supernatural stuff.
Newton Arock
No. Look at my opening statement in my previous comment. I said it’s way more than the answer to a single question. I did address the untenability of science based atheism because that’s the reason most people pose for their denial of God. But if that’s not yours, then you must have another objection to the existence of God. Most of the time the reason is moral, if people were honest. Being accountable to God is problematic for the life they want to live. I can’t guess the particular motives of a random stranger on the internet.
But the atheism of people has a reason. People do puzzle as to why and how the world came to be. Since we’re limited in our knowledge of The Whole of Reality, the choice to believe one of those is philosophical. It’s what makes the most sense to them, even if none of it is factually based.
If you don’t believe in God or scientific materialism, you probably have some thought as to how the world came to be. Whatever your answer, it’s still a philosophical issue. Maybe you don’t care how the world came to be as long as God is excluded from your answer. It’s hard to anticipate all the possibilities a person can give.
@@larrytruelove7112 There's NO such thing as "science based atheism". I stopped reading your post at that point. They are unrelated. If you feel the need to give attributes to something, why not just tack on a few more made-up things about your god? You have demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of what atheism is, so I wont be wasting anymore time on your post. Although you have an interesting philosophical view of the science behind important questions, its irrelevant here.
Wonderful testimony. I enjoy the intellectual discussion.
It was 100% anti intellectual.
Lynn V Where ?
upsbear where does science say there is no god.
His arguments against his personal brand of atheism are based on bad philosophy.
What are the intellectual arguments for Christianity?
@@myopenmind527 I believe the intellectual arguments for Christianity are called apologetics... AnswersinGenesis is the most famous of channels for that argument.
I’ve lost my fire in my heart that jesus gave me 20 years ago and I have this longing to get it back for that long but I don’t know how. I think that if I take theology class I just might renew that. Don’t get me wrong I have never lost my faith. I just didn’t have that same fire when I converted 20 years ago.
Friend,the fire in your heart that was once kindled was the experience of all genuinely born again Christians have.I also had mine 40+ years ago n I am glad this kindled fire is still on thru association with the local church christians.Much of the spiritual materials are supplied from Living Stream Ministry.I believe you will have the fire in your heart rekindled again if u should seek fellowship with the mentioned Christian groups n ministry .
spickuching - That's very true. I just need the courage to get back to the fellowship again.
I will encourage you to pray and ask the Savior that encountered you by His Spirit to light the fire in you once again. Ask Him to show you what has dulled you - confess and repent of it- and ask Him to light the fire once again in your heart and He will by His Spirit. He has done it for me...Is. 42:3a & Matthew 12:20 says, a bruised reed He will not break andantes smoldering wick He will snuff out....
My friend in Christ, I was raised secular, and built my spiritual-religious experience up until I naturally reengaged with a holistic denomination of Christianity. I dabbled in Tai Chi and the martial arts, Louise Hay who went betond Religious Science into a psychospiritual love approach, studied Therapeutic Psychology, joined the 12 step group Recovery Movement, and more before engaging with Christian Science (that "cult"!). I had long been in association with Unitarian Universalism (in the US), and visited different denominations. So, now, I say, Christianity has a lot of doctrines, and it is University-based culture and the Freedom of Religion that allows us to experience God´s love and learn how to help the churches modernize doctrines. Start doing things that interest you, and keep reading about Jesus, and ask "How does it all fit together?" You are meant to know God´s love through Jesus and the Freedom of Religion has been innovated by seekers like Thomas Jefferson in the US. Follow Gandhi the Christian Hindu, and so on. I like Buddhism and Yoga a lot, as well.
Sometimes we are challenged by a loss of the joy that Faith and hope can give us. We can even lose the sense of joy we feel in doing a kindness or being loving and giving. Many saints and philosophers have experienced this loss, not of faith in God but loss of joy and fire.
Saint John of the Cross referred to it as the Dark Night of the Soul.
The only way back to the joy of union with Christ and with the will of God is through prayer and devotion. Don’t let yourself be separated from union with fellow Christians or from participating in your faith because of the heavy shadow being cast on your soul. Remember that there is a purpose in every trial we experience.
Sorrow lasts for the night, but joy comes in the morning.
Even the way he speaks has the poetic and gentle touch of Lewis. LOVE listening to him.
yeah hes more loving than my mockingful mouth of atheism although rightfully so but i dont hate them even when i seem harsh im nice.
I like this guy! I feel like if most non-religious people just had an open mind like Alister then they would learn to really appreciate the peace that religion has to offer.
brian elliot *excuses excuses*
Yes ... this is one of the best descriptions I have ever heard, so simple, so logical, so inherently holy.... love this... thank you....
It always amuses me how atheists mock the bible and have so much faith in science. The bible states: put everything to the test and hold fast to that which is good. Now that is how science should be done, so it should be called the biblical method not scientific method. The bible stated that the universe had a beginning, had fixed laws of physics, is expanding and states the creation events in the correct order. All of these facts took thousands of years for scientists to discover to be the truth! All biblical prophecies have come to pass except for those whose time has not come yet but will in the very near future i.e. Jesus returning. We are in the end time right now according to bible prophecy and every day the prophecies are being fulfilled in our lifetime. The great falling away, abortion laws, gay marriage, gender change, natural disasters on the rise, climate extremes, floods/droughts/forest fires, food shortages coming next year, pestilence, mockers and Christian persecution, bible banning, evolution being taught in schools when it is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. THE JEWISH PEOPLE GATHERED BACK IN THEIR HOMELAND after 2000 years as prophesied! Jesus said, '' the generation that SEES this will not pass away before I return'' A generation life expectancy is 70/80 years according to the bible. Everything is in place. Israel is surrounded by its enemies and they have Jerusalem as their capital city for ever. It looks like the bible is right again. Maranatha.
Glory to God. Powerful testimony. God bless.
And may God open the heart and minds to the atheists.
Once your brain falls out.......Christianity.
My OpenMind And there’s the insult!
BuT wE’rE 3-0 wOu people are not atheists because they are closed minded. Typically they are former Christians , Muslims or Hindus who woke up from the spell which is religiosity.
@@myopenmind527 there's more substantial evidence for the Bible than there is for the delusional, conjectural nonsense you believe 😄 these theories you put your faith in are ever-changing, meaning you'll always hold a fallacy 😆 go be a swine in a pigsty 😐
I worked for a large government organization which included many highly educated and smart co workers. Here I was from a puny state college. I often deferred to my co workers for many many years in matters of their atheist rant, hostility, and arrogant intellectualism. As the speaker says atheism is all so rational. Well .....it took years before I gradually came to realize these very capable and smart atheist co workers who used the cover of rational and scientific outlook where neither rational or scientific or even historically accurate on much except for an accumulation of facts to stuff their brains for all kinds of silly and petty and infantile tempers.
I find it amazing how athiests troll these videos and pat themselves on the back for their self approved witty comments, but I know that God can use this and other videos to open their eyes to true reason and not just accept the creed handed down to them without asking serious questions
As Alister mentioned in the video, it’s their intuition and conscience that constantly whispers there is a living God. They don’t want it but they can’t get away from it, and their hard heart overflows into their words. I also pray they would give themselves the chance to step out into the light and see that it’s a loving God who’s waiting for them, in fact Christ who gave His life so they (and we) can live.
@@synesthete23 👍😁
"Christian faith is about being liberated from the prison house of rational thought" (4mins 48secs). That's a really great line and one that I will remember and quote in the future. However, it's an appalling thing for a supposed scientist to utter, or for any reasonable or intelligent being to say. I agree that religious faith and rationality are incompatible in the modern world and that adopting one means compromising on, or completely abandoning, the other. But for a supposed scientist to consciously make this choice and to reject rational thought in favour of 'faith' (ie. things for which there is no good evidence or proof, as this guy readily admits) is just horrifying. Mr McGrath may have a science qualification but I would say that a defining characteristic of a scientist is the use of the 'Scientific Method' to determine the nature of our world and the universe, so Mr. McGrath has forfeited the right to apply this label to himself or to expect anyone else to respect his claim to it.
As a scientist/clinician I struggle. I've always believed in God. however , some days the anxiety of what I know scientifically and how that might relate to a god really confuses me. Then as you get deeper you figure out that none of this makes sense without a great creator. I want to be the kind of Christian that just wakes up every morning knowing that with God everything is possible. I will admit some days are harder for me. I keep fighting for my faith. I hope I'm almost there. Please pray for me.
@brinabrina thank you ! 🙏🏼
As someone, who once was christian, it isn‘t that bad. Don‘t look at the uncertainty as a black hole you get lost in, but rather a field with roads to several different cities. Everything is possible, when you realize there doesn’t have to be a God for the world to work, giving everything less urgency. If you let yourself go, you‘ll end up finding your path. May it be Christianity, existentialism, or peaceful suicide (although I hope you don‘t do that since especially clinicians are needed today). That is how it was for me anyways. I can‘t speak for others of course.
I hope you‘re better (although it‘s only been a week), be it that you stayed with Christianity, found back to it, adopted another belief/philosophy, or are on the search.
Take care!
@brinabrina Germany. Why? Is my English that bad?
@brinabrina Oh sorry. I read that as where. How do you mean, if I was born again? Do you think, I chose suicide? I chose a rather existentialist philosophy, that I puzzled myself together, and love to discuss, and sometimes improve it over time (although the second one is always hard) with theist like you, generally realistic people, or listening to discussions, I watch here on UA-cam.
@brinabrina Oh, so you mean that. I already went through first communion, and started to doubt, and found that philosophy before doing the „Firmung“ as we call it here. But I didn’t lie during the „Firmung“, and I still don’t when I say that I believe in God. It might be a different version of God, but I am as certain as I can be that this God exists. It might sound sacrilegious to hard theists, and that is why I leave the church, but it gave me a great amount of self understanding. The born again stage was when I was a baby, if you mean the „Taufe“. Why do you ask?
Awful stuff. It's amazing what adults will do to convince themselves of something.
An intellectual Oxford conversion like Lewis and Chesterton. Two of my favorite 20th Century Christian writers. ❤️
Chesterton, most amazingly, never went to university. I think him to be the most erudite and greatest writer and thinker of his day, if not of all modern letters. A great and avuncular genius who greatly influenced Lewis' conversion and others. Orthodoxy; Heretics; and The Everlasting Man are incredible works offering a profound and phenomenal theological and psychological insight. Yet with the warm joviality of the author ever apparent.
@@vincentmcnabb939 I agree!! How can you not admire the insight, the genius, the wit, and the warmth of a man who can write an entire chapter of a book on the ethics of elf land and can give us such a seemingly simple, but deeply wise and perceptive character like Fr. Brown.
I’m a huge fan of Bishop Fulton Sheen, and when they started releasing his Life is Worth Living shows on UA-cam , I devoured them.
Imagine my surprise when he quoted, almost verbatim, lines from a Fr. Brown story. Two of my favorite thinkers of the 20th century. 🙂
The Door in heaven is NARROW and few souls have found it.And the Door in Hell is WIDE and many souls are invited by Satan and his Disciples for Eternal Torment.Words from Our Lord Jesus Christ the Almighty God.Amen (Matthew 7:13-14)
Jesus said, "Unless your righteousness surpasses the the Pharisees and the scribes you will certainly not enter the Kingdom of Heaven." To be righteous as them you have to follow 613 Laws from the Talmud including those on animal sacrifice. How are you doing on them laws?
Thanks, very well explained, is not about convincing but what it works for me, is about personal experience and here in youtube you can see real miracles that changed people's life
Accept Jesus as Lord and Savior...........
@1:20 "The case for atheism wasn't as good as I thought". There is no "case" for atheism. Atheism is the null hypothesis. It is the default. You are atheist with respect to all other religions. Not because you have studied them all and found them to be false, but because that is the DEFAULT position. You have to have a reason to BELIEVE that there is a god/gods.
Atheism is a serious mental illness🛑
We simply cannot live for even one moment without the grace of God - we are being breath and only God knows when He will end each life🙏🙏
The goal of our earthly existence is sanctity so we can spend eternity with a God that loves each of us🙏🙏
Its maybe not an illness. Just limited thinking and being confined to a small space. Atheist just try to carry their own luggage because they don't want to let go or trust anyone else with it. God took our load on Him and by His grace we were set free. We went through the door which is our savior Jesus. And we are living in his light outside those walls which was placed there by the world to entrap us.
atheists should not mock this man going by his looks and age it seems his been studying possibilities of life for a very long time so when he believes in something we should respect that.
And his definitely more intresting and makes more sense than all the experts in this comment section.
Atleast his up on the screen talking not underneath writing comments that no one cares about.
Justin D they’re also resorting to insults, but that’s not atypical.
No Christian should feel offended when mocked. All glory to God. We do not have to defend ourselves.
Funny. I as an atheist like his position, and rather see theists, that don‘t accept the deal mr.McGrath embodies, when I go through the comments. The angry atheists rather seem to be a more radical reaction to those more radical claims.
@@nerdineverythingnerdinnoth4984 can you explain why?
@@Hanako-San100 What specifically?
The disciplines simply suspended their rational/disbelief in the HOPE that (in following him) their rationalisation will be made manifest through his confidence in his own purpose and their belonging...
to become real with each step on the journey to SELF REALISATION. 🌍
LIKE FOOTSTEPS IN THE SAND! 👣 👣👣
“If you think we are limited by what human reason can prove to be true”
I don’t think atheists are reasonable in the sense of using “reason”.
I don’t believe when given the question, “does life exist by design or happenstance”, it is reasonable to go with happenstance.
So any arguments or thought given to the pursuit of the “happenstance” assumption is merely illogical fruit of the poisonous tree.
It’s not reasonable from the outset, it’s root.
So what’s the purpose of listening to eloquent arguments that are trying to prove the assumption that 2 + 2= 5?
Atheism is a delusion, a stupid demonic trick tailor made for only the most prideful of the mundane masses.
There is nothing intelligent or admirable about it. It’s just pure pride manifest through the demonic deception of academia.
It’s not real.
*let every man be a liar*
He expresses his views beautifully being encouraging.
Intellectual conversation... I couldn’t agree more. Beautiful. That is what repent means, change your mind.
In fact science says God exists
Only Jesus Christ can save anyone.And atheism will end up hell.
Alung Aria: There is not, nor has there ever been, a shred of proof or evidence for the existence of the Christian God or that the Jesus Christ of the Bible was ever a real human being.
Oh. And how do you think that a lack of belief in God (atheism) can be put in a place that doesn't exist (hell)?
And there lies the toxicity of religion.
And only religion can convince you that you need saving in the first place.
A snake oil salesman tells you youre sick and he has the cure. Christianity is just selling you a different product.
Dave P: Actually, religion cannot convince me, or any other sane, rational person, of anything as all religions are founded on lies treated as truth and myths treated as reality.
Furthermore, what exactly is it that you believe we need to be saved from?
Neither I, nor any other human being, is guilty of a fabricated crime committed by a fictitious couple in an imaginary garden (Original Sin).
Grow up and get real.
Millions of atheists are turning to Jesus!! Amen!! Accept Jesus as your Savior and be free from sin!
I hope Richard Dawkins can see this
He has probably seen it, but knowing how rude he is he could have just called this man "stupid", as he usually does with everyone who believes.
@@snowwhitebeautyful the truth hurts. You cant fix stupid.
@@newtonarock1802 true. You talking about yourself?
@@snowwhitebeautyful regrettably, no. there is so much stupid in these comments my gut hurts. You guys are hilarious in your gullibility, I mean faith. I bet you own some trump steaks.
@@newtonarock1802 At least we aren't bitter, butthurt and hateful like some other people here. Also, leave our "stupidity" to us, we are perfectl fine with it. Cheers!
Christian faith is NOT a foray past reason into the realm of the unreasonable. It is altogether reasonable and rational to conclude that God and the gospel are the driving forces behind the cosmos and history.
Reason points to that which transcends materialistic naturalism and when you can comprehend this, atheism seems very child like
Dan Harte Could you explain how?
Dan Harte: Which reasons?
What really is "very child like" is belief in God or in any supernatural power for whom/which there is not, nor has there ever been, a shred of proof or evidence.
"Atheist Logic 104
Intellectual honesty is when you more or less successfully set up and knock down a strawman argument.
Letter to a Christian nation, p.72-73:
The argument runs more or less like this: everything has a cause (sic); space and time exists; space and time must, therefore, have been caused by something that stands outside of space and time; and the only thing that transcends space and time, and yet retains the power to create is God...
As many critics of religion have pointed out, the notion of a creator poses an immediate problem of infinite regress.
If God created the universe, what caused (created) God?
To say that God, by definition, is uncreated simply begs the question." Sam Harris.
And keep in mind that not knowing the answer to a question, like how did the universe come to be, does not serve as proof of anything except that the answer is not yet known, and certainly not as proof of the existence of any supernatural being or power.
Merlinever You wrote "which reasons?" but my post was clear that i was talking about reason In relationship to the naturalistic philosophies and their failings.
You seem to be implying that ive somehow created a strawman argument with the comment I made when this obviously isn't the case whatsoever
If anything, you're the guilty party by proposing an argument ive never made regarding a temporal linear regress then attempting to refute it.
You claim that there has never been any proof to support the theistic position.
Science doesnt actually prove anything, proof only exists in logic mathematics or as in the philosophical sense of the word so what is your definition of proof?
As for evidence, it does infact exists.
You merely challenge and contest it.
After between 2 and 20 second of oxygen starvation all electrical brain activity stops.
The respiratory system including gag reflex and pupil dilation etc all cease and the brain essentially goes off line yet there exists thousands of documented cases of patients reporting events occurring within both their immediate and surrounding locations detailing events not available to their 5 senses later varified by medical experts and other independent sources.
The vast majority of these reports have a theistic theme including contact with a divine being or beings and a spiritual realm or environment.
As you can see, this phenomena very much supports the theistic position.
What evidence do you have to support your atheistic position?
" After between 2 and 20 second of oxygen starvation all electrical brain activity stops. The respiratory system including gag reflex and pupil dilation etc all cease and the brain essentially goes off line "
If you are going to quote Parnia, atleast attribute him as the source.
" yet there exists thousands of documented cases of patients reporting events occurring within both their immediate and surrounding locations detailing events not available to their 5 senses later varified by medical experts and other independent sources."
Actually it's unclear on a majority of cases when the brain activity returned. Neurologists will tell you that this is very hard to pinpoint. It's difficult to know if bloodflow was present when the experience happened. Since doctors are focused on saving lives, the possibilities for actually testing if NDE's occur when the brain has no bloodflow are very slim.
this is certainly an interesting phenomena, it might mean that we need more sensitive equipment, that the brain has functions for keeping certain parts of it active (remember, the brain is still largely a mystery to us, every decade we shed a few missonconceptions)
It's also worth pointing out that most cases report general observations. The sounds made by certain equipment. Could this be explained by most allready having a conception of what this equipment sounds like, and then filling the blanks with it as the brain struggles to process what actually happened? Given what we know of our imperfect memory, it's not at all implausible. Christians see Jesus, Indians see hindu gods, conspiracy theorists see aliens... It's clear that our cultures,fears and beliefs colour the NDE:s. Why do you think that is the case?
But speaking of memory, how does the patients remember? If their brains were completely dead, then the facility for storing memories will not function. In other words, even if they did have a supernatural experience they would not remember it. How do you get around this?
The more interesting cases are of course those who could recall specific conversations.
As for now the answer is "We don't know, further research is required". How you go from that to an implication of theism, is beyond me.
At most, you MIGHT have a case for a supernatural soul, which would certainly make us re-evaluate our worldviews, but that does not mean any deity or god exists.
" What evidence do you have to support your atheistic position?"
Atheism being the sceptic non-acceptance of YOUR theistic position, I don't need any evidence for it.
Your worlview is not convincing, what evidence would I possibly need for that? Are you expecting to rattle off all the millions little things that are not evidence for god and say: "Look, evidence for atheism"? That is a nonsensical request.
" Explain how Nothing turned into life from nothing. I love to hear atheists explain it."
We don't need to explain it. Nobody knows exactly how life began, so why do you expect an explanation?
By the way, "God did it with powers that I can't demonstrate nor comprehend" is not a viable explanation. Love how theists ask smug about their own explanation when it's literally hand-waving on the level of a chil.d
I am and always have been a nontheist (atheist if you'd like). And looking back on my "angry atheist" phase in my twenties, I am struck by the asymmetry between what they (we?) atheists thought we were doing and what we were actually doing. As Dr. McGrath says, atheism fancies itself as super-rational. But from what I remember of our discussions in chatrooms and message boards, there was something more deeply emotional going on there, at least in most cases. Most atheists were atheists for reasons that were only ostensibly rational. Rationality was there, but mostly as a way of covering for some extra-rational reason for the atheism. For some, it was a feeling of being duped or harmed by their prior religion? For others, it was a need to have a self-image of oneself as super-rational. But in most cases, I can assure you that atheists owe their atheism every bit as much to non-rational factors as theists. The difference is that theists are aware of and will admit it.
What an Awesome interview I must say! I thoroughly enjoyed and learned from it for sure!🤗👍...it's going in my library!
Anyone who's jus look at the human body, sole and spirit and how it works. This can't happened just out of nothing . It's amazing how it works! Yes we all are GOD creation
Jesus Christ saves, atheism ends in despair
Goerge17 Really? How so?
If there is no God and no final judgement on evil then evil ultimately wins.
Goerge17
So because someone imagined yet another version of an afterlife for you,
your ending is going to be different than ours because you're naive enough to believe it... Ooookkkaayy
Goerge17 Does God forgive sin?
Goerge17 Does God forgive our evil acts?
This makes no sense, you could use his logic to say Osirus or Krishna exists just as well?
There are millions of people who believe Sai Babba in India can perform magic right now. They claim to be eyewitness. So why not just believe them then?
His argument is "there is probably more to reality then we know". How this makes one certain mythology real and not another is just a load of cognitive bias.
Dr. Alister McGrath holds 3 PHDs. Molecular Biophysics, Divinity in Theology and Letters in Intellectual History.
The why’d he denounce his atheism, and convert to Christianity?
Because childhood indoctrination is extremely hard to shake off. He was taught in religious schools as a child and if he ever was truly an atheist is highly debatable.
Rafal Omnom evolution doesn’t contradict theism
@@Alvinladen Well, if you believe that god created humans in their current form it does. Depends what form of "theism" you follow.
The alternative of theism is a terrible one. It is a better to be a theist than atheist. In the theist world, misery and evil would be justified.
So encouraging, thank you.
Some people say that God is the third of the three, how wrongly they judge!
"Faith brings reasons into fulfilment" is such a beautiful statement of reason and faith complementing each other or shall we say a beautiful marriage of reason and faith.
Iam so glad you saw the light, the Bible saids any man that does not believe in God is a fool. I hope some of the atheist will come to christ before it is too late.
I have faith I can fly . Quit using rational thought to tell me I can’t.
I used to be an atheist, but now I believe in Zeus.
Good for you🤣
Zeus is nothing, mythology.
McGrath was never an atheist. He was always involved with his personal religious belief throughout his science career.
At the end of the day, we can only show people the truth of the faith, if they choose not to believe what Y'shua(Jesus) said, and what all the Nevi'im(Prophets) said, then they certainly aren't going to believe what we say. Even though they can see the wickedness on the earth, as we do. The times we live in now, were spoken of in days of old. The evidence for the Bible truth is being uncovered in these "last" days, but the scoffers will continue to mock until the end of the world, because they don't want to see the reality. As our Adon said regarding the Pharisees and the Sadducees of his time, who scoffed at his words: "Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the pit". So let them follow their blind guides. We can't save them if they feel they know everything, even though it is easy to get saved. Such a shame, so many lost souls.....
Even renowned atheists now accept "Intelligent design". Which we have known about since we confirmed our faith.
Shalom.
Clay: I'm 55-years old and it's my observation that the older a person is, or the more they've seen or experienced things in life, the more likely they are to be a believer. Many of these "atheists" are clamoring for relevance and ticket sales...a niche form of entertainment. Three sentences from Moses' lips contain more wisdom that a three hour atheist conference.
James; I remember when I was 55, it seems half a lifetime ago, but in terms of Earthly years, just over 6. The last few years seem like a few days, filled with intense study of Bible matters. There are so many belief schools of thousands of denominations, we have to chose where we feel comfortable, I checked out quite a few different churches, and none seemed to fit. So I opted for online studies with different "teachers", refining as I progressed, now down to a few I listen to on a regular basis, as well as checking what they say with the texts they quote. There are some good ministries out there, but I don't always agree with everything they claim. At the end of the day, we've all sinned in some way, there was only one perfect man, and they crucified him; though that was part of the reason he was sent, but without him and his personal sacrifice for the covering of our sins, we would have no hope at all.
I wish you peace at this time of intense worldly problems, and hope to see the day our Adon(L-rd) will arrive to shepherd his flock to pastures new.
@@claywithers523 - 👍
Our job is to sow. We do not need to know what happens else. We do not need to know about results or anything else. And we also do not need to argue or try and convince anyone. All of that belongs to God only. We are only little parts in His big machine called life and the world and where we move in it. Your car's spark plugs have no interest in where you are driving or if your car even has wheels and if they are inflated or the windscreen is clean. Or if your aircon is keeping you cool. If the injectors work or even if there is gas in the tank. All it needs to do is spark. The rest happens by itself.
@@rjvw3078 Albeit a motor vehicle has no soul, it may have a character, but it is just a machine, modern ones being controlled by on board computerised diagnostic systems. I could go into the system functions, but that would be a pointless exercise, excuse the pun. The point being, each one of us is given a spark by our Creator, we either ignore it - Atheism - or we ignite it with belief, allowing that spark to grow into a flame that burns within. As you quite inventively explained. Stay safe.
Enjoyed McGrath, and the interviewer was very good. Well done. I've listened to about 1/2 of the interview, and had a laugh when he talked about moving from the 'prison' of reason to faith. I had the exact opposite reaction. Moving from the bubble of Christianity to being an extreme skeptic was one of the most freeing experiences of my life. So many things opened to me. It was like moving from the B&W Kansas and entering into the colorful wonderful land of Oz. It almost sounds like his life in science was his religion so to speak. Science doesn't have all the answers and is empty by itself., But to use it's inadequacies to launch into religion is something I couldn't do. I can't criticize a man for having faith and a what he feels is a relationship with god. Good for him. I'll gladly listen to the rest of the video, but probably won't be suckered into his enthusiasm.
Faith is a form of knowledge with every bit as much integrity as any other form of knowledge. It is a different paradigm from the contemporary scientific (quantitative and/or qualitative) approaches we use. As a different paradigm, unless one is willing to be open to that paradigm, faith is like describing a color to someone who cannot see color. For some, suddenly, an "ah-ha." The "ah-ha" is based on a encounter with God. Still, there were those who looked Jesus in the face and didn't have an "ah-ha" that he was the Christ.
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so" Mark Twain
I don't think you need to go beyond reason to know Christ. My faith is based on evidence and assessing the probabilities, experience and knowing.
i think he means Above reason...
Sometimes the most precious things in life are found in the most irrational places.
And he just happened to pick the religion of the country he was brought up in. What are the chances?
He feels nostalgic when he read Richard Dawkins again 🤗😄
Yeah, I wondered about that too LOL!
The Bible is an extraordinary book. Also an exciting book.
A lot of scientist's either explain the process of creation or they examine it. They will seldom will explain who created it. It's like they will tell you how the car works or examine how the car works. They will not talk about who and how they created it.
I heard one scientist the other day try to explain that a snowflake just does a few chemical interactions and creates the snowflake. My question to that scientist is who created that process. Because it is like trying to explain how steam is created in a kettle chemically. Then not explaining someone put the kettle with water in it on a hot stove which began the chemical reaction in the water. Which absolutely makes no sense.
Anytime an evolutionist tries to explain their false theory make them go right back to where it all began. Even if they say from star dust. Ask them who made the star dust ? If they use the logic that it all puffed into existence. Ask them who made it puff into existence. Even a magician will explain that one to you. For the record I am certainly not agreeing with any of their analogy's because God began it all.
Who made God?
Dave P He always existed. He's eternal. Read the bible he answers that question. When you don't know something, you can look it up in a book. You get a set of instructions when you buy a car or bike. This is the same thing. Bible Acronym stands for. BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. I like that explanation because it's so simple. It's why the bible says there will be no excuse when we stand before him. We had the instructions. We chose to ignore it.
I told my dad before he became a Christian and passed away. Dad if I told you your car in the driveway just puffed into existence. You would say Boy it's time to lock you up. We see his evidence around us everyday , yet we think the same thing. How insane is that thought ! It's another reason we will have no excuse.
Start with Genesis where God is beginning the creation process. Just like when you seen Thomas Edison in his office working. You would say, Thomas was in his lab creating the light bulb. Then you could also say, Dave walked with Albert in his office in the cool of the day. Just like Adam walked in the garden with God, in the cool of the day. The bible reminds us that anyone who denies that Jesus appeared in the flesh, is of the spirit of the Anti Christ. Just like a child who starts kindergarten you start out like a child and you gradually learn new things about God every Sunday.
Find a Full Gospel Church and speak with a Pastor or listen to his sermons on Sunday, or if a church has another service during the week attend it. Just like in a classroom listen carefully to the teacher (Pastor). When I began my journey I started with prayer. I asked God to help me begin my walk with him. I asked him to lead me to a church that he wanted me to attend. I kept hearing this voice in my conscience telling me the exact church to go to. The funny part was there were other church's in the city that was close to me from the same denomination. I am some glad that I listened to that instruction. This Pastor was exactly what I needed in my life, to help me get started off right. Thank God he always provides, what we exactly need. I have been walking with God for over 20 years and it was definitely the best think that could of ever happened to me. I will pray for you and wish you the best in your search for answers. God bless !
'Who' created it. And that's where people like you go wrong.
You start with a fallacy of implication - we can't explain it.. therefore -->..., then continue with yet another failure in honest thought by assuming a creator. By doing that you have taken the limelight from science by making a claim there is a 'who', and in doing so have assumed an enormous burden of proof that I think I may safely assume you cannot meet.
Dazzletoad The only dumb person here is you. Let me explain how your dumb logic never works. When a car is created it is never assumed someone created. It is known someone created. All the scientist can do is examine it and tell you it exists. No presumptions needed to understand any of those facts. Scientists are like car mechanics to the designer. They get to examine and maintain the running of the vehicle only. Now don't you feel pretty dumb ! The creator can be found in this book. BIBLE which stands for Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. For the record if the designer of the car decides to not show you his face, it doesn't mean he doesn't exist, or he has to prove anything to you. Now don't you feel pretty dumb again !!
It's why Jesus said to Thomas when he doubted him, and wanted to see some evidence of his bodily wounds in the resurrection. Thomas Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe. It's like when a child comes up to his dad and says dad can I go skating on the pond today. Dad says no son the ice is not safe. The boy without understanding any science about ice, says okay dad I trust and believe you !!
Science deserves a 'limelight'? Really? How so?
The way a human body functions is a proof itself there is god. It couldn't be blamed from the god of chances.
Sigh, how????
As a follower of Christ myself, I find this gentlemen's argument unconvincing on its own. Is there not any reason to the world He created? Yes, there is! So there must be some reason to God. I think it is reasonable to point to a prophet's writing of Christ's birth in Bethlehem then that happening hundreds of years later. And indeed all of the prophesies in the O.T. regarding Christ came true. It is therefore logical to regard the remaining prophesies about His second coming as true. Lucky guesses? Pah! Being born in the right place; being betrayed for 30 pieces of silver; pierced for our transgressions but not having any bones broken (as was the norm in crucifixion as shown by the other two victims beside Christ). The whole lot being made up? Pah! To believe that all those prophesies and writings were a huge conspiracy, unexposed at the time or shortly after, that Christ's words were written by a mere human mind, that His whole story in the gospels and writings of Paul, were fabrications made by an inner sanctum of fraudsters, is a huge leap of faith. To think that many of His followers were put to death for proclaiming what they had witnessed but still refused to deny its veracity is to surely logically assume its truth? People don't die for a lie they've invented. And they surely can't have been tricked? They all witnessed His ministry including supernatural healings and amazing teaching. Oh, and resurrection. Now some of these events DO go beyond what we know as humanly possible. But to assert that faith is completely beyond reason and logic is to deny an important constituent of the Christian story.
@FanofAslan "Lucky guesses?" nope. they had read the old testament and wrote the story claiming these were fulfilled.
@@DeathMerciless Hello, Tom. If all the stories about Jesus were fabricated to prolong a lie, the fabricators paid a very heavy price for their "conspiracy." Most were murdered for it. Would you not expect someone to recant at the point of being threatened with death if it was all a con? Or do you disbelieve the accounts that describe early Christian martyrdom too?
FanofAslan where can i look up accounts of the apostles deaths?
@@DeathMerciless It's been a while since I trod that path of questioning myself. I'll get back to you, unless someone beats me to it. Sleep time. It's 23:10 here! Night night!
@FanofAslan i was hoping to hear your answer. but oh well...
I read Alister’s book “Intellectuals Don’t Need God and other modern myths” back in college and would highly recommend it!
Why?
All Atheist Repent!! God loves you
Sounds funny :) We as Christians can not demand anything. We can only set an example and talk about our experience. So we can sow the seed. But its only God that makes that seed to start growing. So we need to only show love and understanding because the world has blinded many.
God bless✝️🙏
Very poetically dishonest.
Wow: "Christian faith is about being liberated from the prison house of rational thought." Need I say more? That's christianity in a nutshell.
+ Tim McGee
"Wow: "Christian faith is about being liberated from the prison house of rational thought." Need I say more? That's christianity in a nutshell. "
Being LIMITED by "rationality" is NOT an advantage. Reality IS. IT is irrational to think you know everything, and without knowing everything, truly rational thought is NOT possible.
Rationalism is just another ISM. IT limits science.
If we only had rational thought, we'd go through life like Spock from Star Trek. Not a very appealing prospect.
BUT very efficient. Being rational he probably never thought of it being unappealing. WE have traded the balance of emotion and rationality normal to humanity for 100% emotion in MANY/MOST interactions. Look at the Kavanaugh screening . . .
In reality...
Christianity:
- Mind (Wisdom)
- Heart (Life)
- Soul (Spirituality)
Atheism:
- Mind (Intelligence without any conscience)
@@KenMasters. Update for my atheism:
Spirit = psychological stability
(Not biological) Heart = Core strive(s), and underlining nature
Soul = core identity
Mind/intelligence/clever-/smartness = different ways of evaluating, and processing information
Wisdom = important knowledge, mostly gotten through experience
Ghost = something/someone/an action that reminds you of someone
This is what I feel most people mean when they talk about those in a not supernatural way. I use them kinda in that way. It could very well be that I change the definitions again, when confronted with other worldviews.
In reading the comments, it reconfirms something I've believed for quite some time. Our Materialist friend aren't stupid, its just they really don't know much about What we really believe and Why we believe it. Also they are very good at Bumper Stickers...ie "I was an atheïst i believe now in “THOR” , what i ‘m crazy , fuck off😂"
Amen brother. we have plenty of evidence for Christ and the resurrection. People who do not understand scripture and don't try hard to look for the truth are atheists. then the atheists will actually try and argue they are more wise then us. everybody knows there is a God but people just don't like being told what to do and enjoy living in sin. Romans 1:21 & 22 For although they knew God, they did not honour him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools. This one's for you atheists. God bless
Oh no we don't have any evidence that Jesus existed. Found this text from a freethinker: The most remarkable thing in the evidences afforded by profane history is their extreme paucity; the very existence of Jesus cannot be proved from contemporary documents. A child whose birth is heralded by a star which guides foreign sages to Judaea; a massacre of all the infants of a town within the Roman Empire by command of a subject king; a teacher who heals the leper, the blind, the deaf, the dumb, the lame, end who raises the moldering corpse, a King of the Jews entering Jerusalem in triumphal procession, without opposition from the Roman legions of Caesar; an accused ringleader of sedition arrested by his own countrymen; and handed over to the imperial governor; a rebel adjudged to death by Roman law; a three hours' darkness over all the land; an earthquake breaking open graves and rending the temple veil; a number of ghosts wandering about Jerusalem; a crucified corpse rising again to life, and appearing to a crowd of above 500 people; a man risen from the dead ascending bodily into heaven without a concealment, and in the broad daylight, from a mountain near Jerusalem; all these marvellous events took place, we are told, and yet they have left no ripple on the current of contemporary history.
The physical always reaches for the spiritual ( humans have an innate need for meaning and spirituality) and sometimes the spiritual reaches for the physical (with the life story of Jesus which is scholarly sound evidence) So try to look at the story of Jesus as a moment in human history where God intervened into our lives in a way that would change our civilization for thousands of years, eventually producing Capitalism and Technological revolution we live in right now, the fact itself that there are 2 billion Christians in this world, means that some guy who lived 2000 years ago really did have some merits and went on to be the biggest most influential 'man' in human history. P.S. he was the son of GOD. No hard feelings bro, if you look for the truth deep enough, you will find it
Žygimantas Martūzas Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion. So when Islam becomes more popular are you going to convert? Since you seem to think that having more people believing in something makes that belief true.
I'm not basing my belief on the amount of followers that the religion has, i base it on the impact it has had on our planet, which was the most important thing to ever have happened in humanity apart from agricultural revolution.
Mohammed didn't claim he was the son of God, but rather a prophet, whereas Jesus claimed he is God incarnated in the flesh, which is a massive difference.
And the rise of Islam is mainly due the force the religion inherently has, by which i mean that kids are brought up attending Muslim schools like military, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but the fact that its growing does not mean it is more true than Christianity
It was basically copied from the old testament with a cultural twist to be accommodated in the middle east, and Christianity you can argue produces more productive and efficient societies, both economically and ethically (all love to my Muslim brothers )
Žygimantas Martūzas The impact? That is just immediate history. We see the scars of past theologies all over the planet that we don’t follow anymore and in the future Muslims will look back and say that now that their religion dominates the world that “it” has had the greatest impact.?
I loved it!
Two brilliant men. Thank you
"2+2=4, but that doesn´t get me excited in the morning. Hence, there is a god!"... Vow, what a convincing proof of deity.
It seems such a shame too. He is trying so hard make reason, science and - in this instance - mathematics sound dull. Does he find everything we've learned through research and investigation so unexciting that he needs to go looking for more elsewhere?
"That is how strongly humans need a God to be real. The unbelievers fantasize about creating one. Maybe you should meditate on this."
Well worth considering. How needful the idea is has always been something that I've wondered about. Desperately desired and eschewing reason is an interesting recipe.
I admit that was poor but maybe that statement wasn't for you. The Bible not a scientific book. It's an ancient document written to people 2-4k years ago.
It also doesn't claim to be a Sci book. Consider looking up DR Michael Heiser w how to reason w the Bible in its own context. Good luck in your journey
wishlist011
No he is not trying hard to make reason, science and mathematics sound dull, he is in fact not stopping there like atheists do, no, he is exploring further and found that their is in fact a loving God that created reason, science, mathematics and many more.
Fields of study dependant on reason and research and evidence that have in the past held (and continue to hold) the interest and attention of many of the most intelligent people for their entire lives/careers are caricatured here by Alister McGrath as "2+2=4". These things aren't, even if we could ever hope to understand them all, enough for him. He's discovered a "better" way to truth!
Easy to describe some idea as supposedly "beyond" reason and then call it "profound" or "deep". Impossible to challenge it because, by its own description, it sets itself outside of reasoned criticism. And what do we find if we go "beyond" reason? A "beautiful landscape". A loving creator. Eternal bliss. Justice. Perfection. Divine purpose. And an anthropomorphised figure with remarkably similar values to the ones the individual believer already holds!
… well, if I am to take Alister's advice and trust my intuition, I'd listen to the alarms ringing in my head which are louder than those for the emails I receive from African princes with fortunes to transfer into my bank account.
Science is catching up with what Jesus had said all along---"You would die in your sins, if you do not believe that I AM, (the one I claim to be), you will die indeed in your sins."
Just as Jesus claim to be "I AM," everyone is created in the image of God, that is "I AM."
Not believing in "I AM" you can not please God, for "I AM" is God's name. If you believe you are sick, you will remain sick; if you believe you are poor, you will remain in poverty. For you take the name of the Lord in vain, and you can not but remain in that state. Ten Commandments are the law of the Lord our God within.
Harvard researchers had discovered God's messages in Aramaic in human DNA code. .
There is no argument that humans find faith very reassuring, as it easily provides meaning and guidance in one's life, as well as the lives of those around us. But that does not make faith real or true. Just because faith gives one a very powerful and comforting view from the other side of the wall (to use McGrath's metaphor) does not mean it is the logical continuation of rationality.
Peace Harmony faith!? Its amazing how a word becomes a type of a meme. We all exercise faith.
The fact that we seek for meaning implies that we cannot come there by rational means, rationality is a perfect philosophy to live by, not so good for entering the spiritual realm, which does in fact exist my friend
Because we find meaning reassuring does not mean that what we imagine when we seek is real: I do not think we should conflate the two, or read some form of extra, "hidden" profundity in the fact that we seek meaning.
All of this -- our creation of faiths (ie. religions) boils down to our highly intelligent brain. We want answers, and we want them now. And we have always wanted them now. The irony, I suppose, is that while faith is not an extension of rationality, it does come from the same place: Our search for understanding and knowledge. And while we often prefer that which is factual/scientific when it is available, we are seldom content to recognize when we simply do not have the answer to something. Hence why we so often fill in the blanks with faith and religion.
Faith is a worldview. Voltaire’s scientism was a worldview based on a superficial understanding of newtonian physics. Dawkin’s atheism is a superficial understanding understanding of religion. I doubt he has a clue about the worldview of St. Augustine, and what he had in mind when he wrote the City of God.
SuperDukka is nothing more than a bot.
The problem with god-guided evolution is the same as ID or Creationism - it is untestable and is based on subjective reasoning. As an atheist I will admit that the arguments for atheism do not disprove the existence of angels, witches, gods, demons - the supernatural world. But our point is, "So what?" We are not the ones insisting that invisible beings are monitoring our thoughts 24/7 checking if we're being naughty or nice. We don't claim god answers prayers - except when he doesn't. We don't worship a god whose message is so obtuse that followers slaughter each other over its meaning.
If such a being exists, why all the hide and seek? Why the silence when the creator of the universe could easily transmit his message to every human being and stop the confusion once and for all? Sign me, Perplexed.
smb12321
I disagree, God is not hiding from us at all, we exist as and inside his handiwork. He manifested himself in the flesh as Jesus 2000 years ago, yet they murdered him, and would do the same today. He also proved his divinity by rising from the dead.
As well, science proves evolution is a lie and an intelligent creator exists.
Naturalism does not enlighten, it blinds to the truth.
Sparky - First of all, "they" were the Romans and Jesus was crucified for sedition - not for being good. You can't say whatever pops in your head as if it were a fact. "he proved divinity by rising from the dead" (then why did Paul says god "raised" him instead of the word for "resurrection"?), "naturalism does not enlighten" (you disagree with virtually all church leaders in the Enlightenment)
If Jesus "proved" his divinity then Buddha "proved" reincarnation, Muhammad "proved" Allah & Hinduism "proved" millions of gods. Science doesn't prove anything. That is a math concept. But it does present overwhelming evidence from the fossil and particularly the genetic record of common ancestry and a natural cause (vs magic) for the rise and extinction of a billion species. One reason ID loses every case is the appeal to ignorance. You can't say a designer did it and then refuse to name the designer or how he did it.
smb12321
"First of all, "they" were the Romans and Jesus was crucified for sedition - not for being good. You can't say whatever pops in your head as if it were a fact. "he proved divinity by rising from the dead" (then why did Paul says god "raised" him instead of the word for "resurrection"?), "naturalism does not enlighten" (you disagree with virtually all church leaders in the Enlightenment) "
Pretty much every thing you wrote is contrary to history and the scriptures. Where are you getting this ?
"you disagree with virtually all church leaders in the Enlightenment "
Naturalism and Christianity are incompatible because naturalism denies anything other than materialism and materialistic causes.
"If Jesus "proved" his divinity then Buddha "proved" reincarnation, Muhammad "proved" Allah & Hinduism "proved" millions of gods."
No so, only Jesus died on the cross, and was witnessed by many... after his death. That is historical fact no serious scholar, including atheist scholars deny.
The problem Atheist scholars have is how so many people believed they actually saw Christ after his death.
"Science doesn't prove anything. That is a math concept."
I agree, but there is a difference between proof beyond reasonable doubt, and mathematical proof, and that distinction must be clear in any discussion or it will go no where, would you agree ?
Pretty much every thing we do refers to the former, including probability and statistics.
"But it does present overwhelming evidence from the fossil and particularly the genetic record of common ancestry and a natural cause (vs magic) for the rise and extinction of a billion species. "
I contend the above is incorrect, and I can prove it mathematically.
As well:
(Magic) ... such an overused word... how many times has man used that for what he understands not.
Was not the singularity magic being infinitesimally small yet containing infinite matter without time for that matter to do anything ?
"One reason ID loses every case is the appeal to ignorance. "
Naturalism has exactly the same issue, asserting life started by random chance without a shred of proof.
We don't know how it happened, but we know it did = [appeal to ignorance]
"You can't say a designer did it and then refuse to name the designer or how he did it."
The designer is obviously God based on the things that are made. How he did it ?
I'll try to explain by analogy.
A recent study to map the chemical pathways of a particular enzyme on a simple bacteria (pretty sure it was E-coli ) was commissioned.
The team after almost a year threw up their hands in disillusion reporting, "We stopped at 380 pathways, it's infinite...there is no end to this "
That's only a simple enzyme in a bacteria.
Why is that at issue, the complexity of living systems is mind bending, but we will never understand genetic systems if we think it happened randomly.... if random is false.
Only the truth will lead us out of the dead ends of evolutionary pseudoscience.
"Sign me, Perplexed."
I am not sure if you really want to understand or just playing games, but if you want to have an honest scientific and rational discussion of the facts, I will entertain that.
Sparky - I'll keep it brief. If everything I wrote was "contrary to history" why not give an example? (1) Religious writings are not evidence. The NT is contradictory with historical and geographic errors -hardly surprising considering the superstitious era and the time passed after the events.
(2) Get a dictionary. Naturalism is the explanation of science in terms of natural events. It has nothing to do with god (like evolution) and your inability to see that speaks volumes. Actually your view closely mirrors Islam's. To them, all things - planetary orbits, mountains, speciation, elements, etc - have no natural causes but are Allah's will. they often say (like you) "This is so complex" or "We don't understand this" therefore it must be supernatural.
(3) I find it incredibly odd/arrogant that folks reject the views of 99.9% of experts in a field that is the cornerstone of life in favor of supernatural magic that is as untestable as it is silly. I read somewhere that the greatest irony is that if god created the universe, he did so in a way that it could be explained without his presence.
smb12321
"I'll keep it brief....
Get a dictionary.....
Your inability to see.....
Your view mirrors Islam's. (like you) "
I have no patience for proud priggish ideologues, they are immune to new information and rational discussion, a waste of time.
Ahh great argument “there must be more. Therefore Christianity”
Therefore jesus
elfootman yeah that’s more poetic!
That;s not an argument, that's an assertion.
&one
Condemnation in man is irrefutable....NOT up for debate. Consider that ALL men spend every waking moment, every thought, every motive, etc. trying to avoid or resist condemnation.
Condemnation is the ONLY absolute...no one exempt.
Mr. C lol what the fuck is this babble?
It all comes from within that nothing should sway you from without, who you were, who you are and who you will be, that nothing other than self-deception can deceive you. It is that you are your own salvation no Saviour needed to intrinsically know this, not if as the personification of Love you live your life as did He in whose grace you have found forgiveness. And where Forgiveness is everything as does Love it would have you extend it, are you extended through it, to become everything you were meant to be.
this is such a childish argumentation... the public debate is much further now. this is a waste of time
Cliff Hanley
_'Do you at least agree with him on the limits of human reason?'_
True, and that applies to all of us including Alister McGrath!
john hammond What is your point here?
galoobigboi
His human reasoning is no better than the rest of us yet he makes the claim that a God exists without any evidence for said God.
So he goes beyond what we know and into speculation and special pleading.
john hammond is that a bad thing?Is speculation problematic?
Doesn't scientific inquiry,or inquiry at all, starts by ,in many cases,speculating?Then making(most of the time) deductive claims,then search for validation of those claims,wether true or false?
If his human reasonning isn't better than anyone else,then yours isn't either.
As a matter of fact making such a bold claim is indeed,speculative as well.
You're going well beyond what you know here pal.
Any evidence at all for what you just said?
I suppose you're an atheist.Only atheists can't see they're guilty of the same logical fallacies they perceive in others.
galoobigboi
_'Is speculation problematic?'_
It is when you make a positive claim based on it and not back it up with evidence. And that's what you theists do.
Atheists however do not make any positive claim, they just say they don't believe in any God till evidence for God presents itself.
_'You're going well beyond what you know here pal'_
Me thinks not, but someone sure is.........pal! :)
Shame!
He is free to embrace whatever silly mythologies he wants to.
Dawkins has a mythology.
Judy S. And he is free to embrace that mythology as well
7:15 (paraphrase) "apologetics is as much to challenge a non-Christian as much as it is to help Christians". No. Apologetics is almost exclusively for helping Christians maintain their beliefs in the growing face of evidence against it. The number of people who are converted from apologetics (of any religion) is microscopic.
Brian Dill Show me proof that confirms that last statement of yours.
Resurrection is unbelievable but necessary & meaningful for human existence. Without Jesus's resurrection what hope is there to dependon?
Science is study of mankind & Athiesm is belief of a % of mankind.
Study is inferior on day today basis because of research. Belief is no longer a belief if it is real.
You know, I really want to believe that there is a loving god that is there for us, the happiest times of my life were as a child believing that. But then you grow up and mature and see the world for what it is, a constant battle of game theory where the fittest survive and those who do not adapt falter. McGrath did nothing to convince me, it sounds like he's believing in God simply because it makes him feel better. Well, I need more than that. Heck, you may as well worship Santa as well. Oh, and why did he choose Christianity instead of any other religion? It's not like he gave some sort of explanation of how Jesus came to him.
Interesting. But to be frank, when I was an atheist none of what he said in this interview would have made a dent with me.
As a hard atheist I would simply have considered him a fool. I know that I needed hard evidence that would destroy my “reasonable” hard doubts.
I found that evidence. And it would never had come if I had allowed myself the slightest doubts about Rational Reasoning.
God might be beyond OUR best reasoning abilities- but not Reason itself.
Just like the most complicated and complex mathematical Problem might be beyond OUR ability to solve, but it would STILL conform to 2+2 = 4
I still maintain that there IS PROOF of God- and it gives birth to FAITH.
THATS why I am a Christian today.
(I would relate the process that lead me to (what I considered) “proof” but that’s beyond the scope of this comment.)
Reason can't point to the possibility of a god because the concept itself is logically incoherent. All those omnis -- omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, omnibenevolence -- produce logical paradoxes if you take them seriously. If you want to back off a bit and say, "Well, don't take that literally, god is just *effectively* omniscient compared to us," then you are now talking about a fallible god, and I don't know of any Christian who believes their god is in the slightest bit fallible.
I have never heard McGrath give any reason for believing in “God” other than “it makes sense, it’s robust, it’s exciting”. I deduce from this that he doesn’t actually have any good reasons
Theologians earned their money by preaching fear of punishment from gods, when it was the disruptive words of the warring theologians that the people really did have a need to fear, as they were forced to be caught up in the religious wars started by the theologians.
From the book Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase & Fable by Ivor H. Evans, first published 1817. Odium theologicum (o di um the o loj ikim) (Lat.). The bitter hatred of rival theologians. No wars so sanguinary as holy wars; no persecutions so relentless as religious persecutions; no hatred so bitter as theological hatred.
He doesn’t even really say anything or give any reasons. It’s just a bunch of word vomit. Also, science doesn’t say there is no god. Science can’t study something which can’t be falsified or outside of the universe. And the world is exciting. Making up a belief without any explanatory power doesn’t make it any less or more exciting. Haha
He doesn't even understand science... "Science says there is no god." Bullshit. Show me the published Theory of God Absence and I will retract my call of Bullshit.
If there were the kind of evidence they wanted, then faith wouldn't exist and with it love... With a certainty of God, most to all would become robotic, though we have to wonder about why did Lucifer decide to challenge God... One can only speculate. Well, and if Lucifer did then people could too I suppose.
I heard an argument that at the end of days though, everybody will have the chance to know God, and those who went to Hell wanted to go there...
...
Looking through all of time though I don't know if that fits either.
God exists though. He showed me. Cue laughter. But he absolutely exists, without a doubt.
Atheists are such a bitter bunch. The man believes in something and is happy, no reason to be rude because his beliefs don't fit their narrow minded views