SolarEdge Energy Bank Review, Part 2: Communications board replacement and commissioning
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- 5 weeks after part 1 of my Energy Bank review, we finally receive the crucial replacement part that is needed to continue with the commissioning of the Energy Bank and restore previously lost functions.
I think this is one of the first candid reviews of the Energy Bank on UA-cam.
00:27 Unboxing
01:00 Communication Board Replacement
04:47 Power Up and Inverter Firmware Upgrade
06:33 Inverter Configuration
13:32 Battery Wiring
15:00 Inverter Shutdown, Final Completion of Wiring, Battery /Inverter Power up
19:16 Battery Configuration, firmware upgrade, self test
23:41 Thoughts on the failed communications board
28:35 Summary
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See my next video
SolarEdge Energy Bank Review Part 3
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See my previous videos:
SolarEdge Energy Bank Review Part 1
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• Choosing and Installin...
Commissioning and initial results
• Commissioning and Perf...
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• First anniversary of l...
Maximising Solar Production and Utilisation in Aberdeenshire
• Maximising Solar Produ...
Mid Summer 2021 Solar Performance
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The solar installer is Barry Chapman Electrical Services: bcsolar.co.uk/
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And yet I'm still ordering exactly the same setup :D I'll keep my fingers crossed. Great video, thanks for taking the time.
A great video Anthony!!👍🏽
I ended up showing your video to my installer when commissioning today… as having a battery installed to my new PV and Solar Edge 6kw inverter.
Why is it that Solar Edge do not have such an informative installation video for their installers? Even if on a secure log in?
Keep up the great work!!
My goodness, that is complicated. I wanted to have a battery installation but this is mind boggling. As a retired electronics engineer I still find it much more complicated than I imagined! I like your diagnosis of the events and think you may well be correct. Keep going till you are satisfied as it is encouraging for viewers to see progress. Thanks again.
Great video but WOW, that video makes me happy I went with the Powerwall 2. My installer did not have to call for tech support at all and it was running the same day and my app control was immediate and is a first rate experience. Thanks Enphase and Tesla. :) Great to see you solved the issue yourself. We can't do that here in Oz.
After watch how to properly make a tea, this guy convinced me he is an excelent supporter candidate.
Hey Anthony, a quick thank you. This video really helped and I've now installed the battery and water heater myself. The initial instructions that come with the battery is useless but your video and the installer slides from solaredge helped me complete the project. Their support is great and they answered all questions, your videos however is what gave me the confidence to do it. Thank you 👍
Really glad to hear your story. It’s been a pleasure to know that my video has helped you out.
Excellent work Anthony, so glad to see you finally have it all working. Great video and thanks for sharing. You were so right to proceed with so much caution for risk of the board getting damaged with the very specific start-up and shutdown procedures.
Liked the insert of the tea brewing procedure and the warning.....very funny :) glad to see you have a sense of humour about all of this. I would be so stressed and super upset not management to get it working in the initial install and commissioning. Well done!
It does look more like a RS-485 modbus issue and not a high voltage onto a low voltage board problem.
I agree with your diagnosis of the failure of the comms board. If an incorrect shut down process could cause the board to “blow up” then the board would also be vulnerable in the event of a mains failure.
I’ve recently discovered that an elderly neighbour has a non functioning PV plus battery installation that I’m going to investigate, because the installation company seems to have evaporated. At this point it’s unclear whether the installation was ever working.
I live in the US and we've also had many issues with our solar installation and battery, started the process in March. But now everything should be fine just need our electrical company to come switch out our net meter on our main panel! We got a 10Kw Sonnen battery, which both modules had firmware issues. So the Sonnen rep just switched both of them out last week 😃 Our EV, the Ioniq 5, should be here by the end of the year. We are so close to just enjoying all our solar powered electrical benefits. Great videos, super helpful and enjoyable!
Incorrect isolation procedure at this level & on this type of equipment should not result in damaged internal components. I'm an electrician getting into solar & have been looking at solaredge as they have a good rep, but this is very concerning.
Fascinating stuff Anthony.
As I move towards having my own Solar PV + Battery installed I must admit that your experiences make me somewhat nervous about problems and technical issues arising. Although I am a competent DIYer and reasonably technically minded I would definitely have been well out of my depth if I found myself in your situation. Hopefully my installer would be quick to resolve the problem but, as you said in the video, they are all very stretched at the moment.
The big problem is tech support doctrine. They just think in "pre pandemic" terms, i.e. send a new part out, and next day the problem is solved. That doesn't work now. Spare parts take weeks to arrive, and you're left high and dry in the meantime.
It would be refreshing if they could entertain the idea that maybe a little problem solving outside of the scripted playbook could be entertained. In my instance, if I had the software to upload via USB, or could clear settings by removing the battery, maybe I wouldn't have suffered for 5 weeks.
Thanks for posting that video. Really nice walk through the commissioning process. I think you're right about the comms board. It's highly unlikely to have "blown up" without any physical signs of scorching. SE are extremely anal about their start-up and shut-down procedures so getting it wrong is easily done, especially if you have conflicting information. I'm surprised to see you have a DC isolator as there is no need for one with SEs HD Wave inverters. From all the SE installations I've seen, I think ours is one of the few to have no DC isolator. That 5 minute wait for the DC touch voltage to fall to a safe level is all important. Also good to see a SE hot water diverted in action. I presume you can set it to not pull power from the battery to heat the water? One of the issues we encountered with our solic200 was that it couldn't tell the difference between what was in the battery and what was excess solar. Apparently it's an issue with DC coupled batteries. I've kind of solved it by fitting a smart water heater switch that allows me to toggle the hot water off if the Solic200 starts to drain the battery.
After 1 day, the HW controller and battery, both controlled by Solaredge, sit really well together. Battery takes priority when surplus solar is presented, hot water takes third place behind the electric car. But the electric car charging is completely invisible to the SolarEdge inverter and the home battery is completely invisible to the car charger. However they both have visibility over hot water power. My December video shows how I did that. So I’m working out how to get the car charger to behave using some logical functions.
Regarding DC isolation, I haven’t read the SolarEdge wiring instructions, but I am a safety and automation systems engineer. While the inverter isolation function “works”, the more pertinent question is one of “probability of failure on demand”. DC isolation switches are simple, visible, well understood and are known to satisfy wiring regulations. They can still fail, especially if contacts become welded, but the failure is visible (switch won’t budge). When my comms board failed, the indication of safe DC voltage also failed to work. Whilst I was confident that the actual DC voltage was safe, it’s still fair to suggest that there’s no harm in adding a DC safe isolation switch. The inverter toggle switch after all is merely an input to a programmable logic solver, it’s not a physical barrier in its own right.
@@anthonydyer3939 thanks. Interestingly, I attended a Solaredge webinar this morning on battery installation. They specifically spoke about DC isolation and the requirements of BS7671. They stated that their inverters are fitted with a DC switch disconnector that meets the requirements of Regulation 713.537.2.101 and also meets the requirements of the IET Code of Practice for grid-tied solar PV. I completely understand the belt & braces approach to isolation, but that's why you always check the equipment or circuit is safe before proceeding.
You'll also be delighted, I'm sure, to hear that SE is doing away with RS485 comms on its new product range. Replacing it with a new "home network" arrangement that communicates over local WiFi.
@@daveforrester61 That's very interesting. Can anyone attend their courses or is it only available to persons holding recognised electrical qualifications?
Another advantage to manual DC isolators is the ability to lock out. I'm not to sure if you can do that with the inverter toggle switch. It's not a big deal on a domestic property, as I suppose you can always isolate the inverter itself on the AC switch.
I've always found RS485 comms to be reliable, but they can be a pain to commission (easy with two nodes, and two wire variants, harder with four wire variants). They've never in my experience caused equipment failure however. They either work or they don't, until you fix it.
Wireless have their own issues. It's no doubt fine in my house, but if wireless traffic conflicts or signal attenuation becomes significant then it can be problematic. They also consume more power.
I personally like ethernet. It's low power, ubiquitous, reliable, resistant to obsolescence and interchangable with wi-fi as required.
@@anthonydyer3939 I like ethernet too. I switched our comms from WiFi to ethernet and it's much more stable.
Webinars are open to installers in the main. If you have an installer account, which you must have if you were able to commission your battery, you can sign up for emails from SE on webinars etc. The recordings usually get uploaded to their Academy after a week or so.
Hi Anthony, just discovered your channel
I’ve just had two SE batteries installed, finally commissioned by a SE engineer yesterday. I’m so disappointed to find that I’ve got no control over charging, discharging, scheduling etc. The engineer told me that SolarEdge are hoping to get an update out by mid-November to give the end users rights to manage their own account. Until then I’m unable to stop the car draining the house battery every night
I wish I’d known the difference between AC and DC batteries before giving the go ahead, I turned down a Powerwall because I was taken in by the SolarEdge efficiency blurb. Efficiency is irrelevant though when you start every day with an empty battery in mid winter
Your installer can set you up with a sub account for “installer” privileges. In the account will be “storage profiles” options. My part 3 video discusses these matters in detail. Upload due tomorrow. However Solaredge support sorted this out for me, but it did take quite a few emails to get it sorted.
Agree with your sentiment, but a permanent fix for homeowners is due soon.
@@anthonydyer3939 Thanks for coming back to me. That’s very helpful and I’ll get onto the installer today
Tea bag in with the milk?! The brewing procedures are incorrect.
Very Good! You can say the same thing about the SolarEdge manuals!
One section tells you to turn off the AC supply first, before switching the inverter toggle switch to 0. Contrary to what 1st line support told me.
My 5K SetApp inverter seems to have two wireless slots - I have a similar setup to yours and I have managed to get the battery, modbus communicating via the RS 485 but the battery blue led is blinking. I have just ordered the home net plunging as it seems that the RS connection will reduce the battery capacity by 300W. Zigbee hot water is working fine. I have left the RS dip switches off in the inverter - are yours On or Off?
Omg that’s so complicated and too many gotchas for my liking. We have just had our solar installed and on a 4 month waiting list for the battery. (BYD not Solaredge ) Hopefully this turns out a good investment without the issues you have had.
Great video Anthony, just had my solar and SE battery commissioned this week so interested to see how it copes with charging the Tesla. My battery drained to 0% tonight, wondering if this a drained useable and if there is a % that is hidden from the app.
Having gone through the frustrations of adding batteries to my Fronius I completely understand the frustration of dealing with all these bloody software gizmo's.
Having watched my installer ignore the start up procedure several times it was disconcerting to say the least.
But all that pales in significance compared to pouring the milk in to the cup before the tea has brewed !
Sacrilege. Unforgivable lapse.
It took a stiff brandy to calm my nerves watching that bit.
Excellent videos , really helpful. I have just had two inverters and two 400v batteries installed. You wont be suprised but one battery is not working and waiting for SE to decide what to do !!! Anyway have a question that has just dawned on me, as I have two inverters ( 5kW) if I have system setup to charge on the Octopus go will both inverters charge at full rate? ie 10kW? or can the grid load be limited? I do miss the Victron control to be honest. We have the EV charger to consider along with I have only just trained the wife to use DW and WM in the cheap rate :) . I am afraid I have to ask you this as just have a dumb app with no control or ability to find the answer myself.
SolarEdge Inverters have options to limit grid export, but there's no option (as of last September) for limiting grid import loads.
Part 2 of my energybank review has insights into the installer settings on the SetApp interface.
Part 3 discusses maximum demand, and how the Zappi charger can be configured to limit grid demand. But there is sadly no option that can be set inside the inverter.
Just had my Solaredge HD 3.68 inverter fitted with 10 x 410 JA solar panels ( small system south facing in Dorset) no battery just yet. was really interested in how you solved your issue, your technical understanding is way over my head. My question to you and its very simple could you confirm once again the shut down & start up procedure ( I don't have a DC isolator switch fitted, my installer said it was not necessary for solarEdge inverters!! From you video, Inverter toggle switch off, wait 5 mins, then a/c isolator off. What is the correct start up ? A/C on, then toggle switch on?
I am soon to have my house consumer unit replaced and want to make sure I understand the correct procedure - many thanks and thank you for taking the time with you channel content
Yes, you got it right. Shutdown: Toggle switch off, wait 5 mins, then AC isolator off
Energisation: AC isolator on, then Toggle switch on.
Great walkthrough of all of the elements. I’ve connected my home assistant hub to my SolarEdge inverter, which can pole the inverter directly via the modbus interface. I noticed a battery health of 96% - it was only installed a few days ago. Just wondering what your battery health was when it was commissioned - will the charge/discharge cycles over the first few weeks improve the battery health? I was expecting the battery health to be 100%
I think it will improve. My latest video showed available power as being 9965Wh. So I’m guessing that works out as being 99.7%
If the battery has been in storage for several weeks / months, then it’s likely that cell voltages will drift. Once the battery is commissioned and being cycled, then the battery management system should balance out the cell voltages.
@@anthonydyer3939 I was reckoning that would be the case. I’ll keep an eye on it to see if it improves. 4% seems significant for a new battery. Good to hear your battery health is up near the 100%.
This has been most interesting, I run a older SolarEdge system with optimisers and have been looking into swopping out the old inverter for one like your with battery, will my original SolarEdge optimisers work with the newer inverter is a question,
Looking forward to your next update any advice on upgrading would be welcome 🤗
It’s a good question to ask and difficult question to answer. I just reviewed the data sheet for the latest inverter and there’s no reference to optimisers at all, let alone which ones are compatible with the inverter. I then studied a typical optimiser datsheet. Again, there’s no compatibility list against inverters. I can only say that you need to contact Solaredge support to get a clear answer.
Now if you’re swapping inverters simply for the battery, my advice is not to bother. You could get a separate ac coupled battery tied to its own inverter. In hindsight that’s exactly what I would have done despite the added complication of DNO approval. In reality, I suspect a lot of installers would just do this work “quietly” if there’s already an inverter installed and just keep the export limit the same.
@@anthonydyer3939 That’s a very good point I have started to look into this option as well, I’m lucky my original installer who is a local small independent has become a friend, sadly he was trapped out of the country over covid and it’s only just back I need to sit down with him over dinner he’s very on the ball, My system is much simpler then yours at the moment but I’m sure that’s likely to change in time and although almost impossible to future proof I will try and do my best, I do like the SolarEdge DC DC system
Hi Anthony, very interesting video series. If I understood correctly, you need to wait until midnight to see your battery on the App as SolarEdge will update on that time the new settings on your installation? Or did you need to make changes on the monitoring platform to make the battery appear? Thank you!
The battery just appeared on my monitoring platform. So everything was good after this installation day.
More patience than me,I would have smacked it with a hammer by now,for the money charged solaredge should commission the system for free
What's the state of play regarding power cuts and its effect on
Battery and inverters
And air source heart pumps ,
The state of play is that SolarEdge claim grid blackouts are different to just simply isolating the inverter. The reason is that the capacitors can still discharge through the loads in your house.
Personally I think that 1st line support is entirely incorrect in saying that isolating the inverter without proper shutdown will cause damage. I returned the communications board, but I doubt I'll hear any definitive concluding remarks saying otherwise.
Heat Pumps, I don't have any info.
out of curiosity, why did you not go for the Tesla powerwall 2 with gateway? Similar price to what you paid, more capacity and it includes backup capability. cheers John
I asked for a quote and got no reply. I think Tesla was rationing them for customers who also bought solar from them. But DNO approval is still required. DNO were quite difficult with my site in the first instance, hence the 5kw export limit, but a fair bit of horse trading was going on between my electrician and the DNO prior to that. Adding a 2nd inverter, even under the existing export limit, “should” be allowed, but DNO’s are known to exercise some illogical thinking.
I have a very similar setup to yours. 7.2k panels, 3.68 invt, same battery and EV charger but an Eddi. I see you are using the export margin to stop the EV charger draining the DC battery. Will the export margin method only work if the battery is fully charged, or set to not charge?
Yes. The home battery has 1st priority over surplus power. The EV has 2nd priority and the hot water controller has 3rd priority.
@@anthonydyer3939 thanks for the reply. I think I’d be happy if the car charger had priority. I’ll let you know if I find a solution.
@@honchoNI I can do that with the zappi. I just set the zappi to eco mode rather than eco+. That however will pull 1.4kW minimum even when there's no sun.
That has its uses. If I'm away the following day for instance, I'll set a charge limit on my car to perfectly match the point where the home battery SoC hit's zero at sunrise, and set eco mode. The home battery will drain slowly at 1.4kW to charge the car up overnight until the charge limit, and then when you're away from home the next day, it will have all day to replenish the home battery.
@@anthonydyer3939 I also think a big fat on/off battery switch in the app would be useful. My system has just been installed and not fully configured yet but it seems from your videos that you have to go through a few clicks on the SolarEdge admin to do that.
@@honchoNI Solaredge are woeful with battery settings for system owners. All the settings I have access to a only by virtue of having an installer sub account, organised by Solaredge. They haven’t made these settings available to system owners which is bonkers. So the “on off” switch that you want is behind your installers username / password, and it’s not called an on/off switch (it’s just called “solar power only”).
Solaredge suggested privately to me these features would be available in the system owner app for November last year, and they then suggested privately to someone else that it would be January this year. I’m not holding my breath for a “big reveal” tomorrow.
A nicely made video, Anthony. Could you tell me if your setup has any off-grid capability please? i.e. if there's a power-cut does the Solaredge kit auto isolate from the grid and switch to battery only? I couldn't find any info about this on the Solaredge website. Thank you.
No off grid capability.
This battery only has this capability with an additional device called a "backup interface". This however is not compatible with HD Wave inverters. It only works with "Home Hub" inverters (which are a newer variant compared to HD Wave).
@@anthonydyer3939 Oh, okay. Thanks for the clear answer. I thought HD Wave was the latest inverter from SolarEdge. I haven't bought anything yet so I'll investigate the Home Hub. Sounds like something BT would come out with! It's a shame there aren't many SolarEdge installers in the UK.
@@remaincalm2 what you’ll find with the home hub inverters:
3 phase available in European markets
Single phase available in North American market only.
From what I can tell, home hub inverters are HD wave inverters, but with (provision for) car chargers included. So maybe with a future firmware upgrade, we’ll see that hd wave inverters become compatible with the backup interface. we’ll see.
This collection of modules, wiring, procedures, firmware etc tells me that the power bank and solar energy market is not sufficiently integrated and sure to merit an average consumer to make such a large financial investment..
I'd still call myself an "early adopter" for sure. The economic case for batteries didn't exist only 18 months ago, and now it's a very compelling product.
The solar energy market is certainly ready for mainstream, but the battery market I think will see further evolutions. I think SolarEdge will probably render serial line comms redundant in favour of wireless and/or powerline communications. That would simplify installation even further.
The other thing I'm paying attention to is what Bluetti and Ecoflow are doing to batteries. They have some very interesting "no electrician required" solutions that you can just buy as a homeowner. You still need an electrician to integrate into your house, but they can work standalone and I think that could well be a very popular product in future.
This comment is very true. As a result, many of us have installed bespoke kit that only we understand. Only three companies are moving towards integrated solutions - SolarEdge, Tesla and MyEnergi. Choosing from these, I will stay with SolarEdge for my next project.
Pretty sure red bubble wrap IS usually anti-static.
Yes it appears so. Thanks for the info.
This seems strange. If you have a power cut it will blow the board - that is the same as using the ac isolator?
I raised that point to them, and it's not the same situation. In that instance the capacitors can drain through the loads in your house.
But I don't think that first line support were correct in making that statement.
@@anthonydyer3939 I guess if the RCD tripped it couldnt drain through the house. Interestingly page 42 of the inverter manual clearly tells you to switch off the ac breaker before throwing the switch on the inverter:
www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se_hd_wave_inverter_SetApp_installation_guide.pdf
Definitely sounds like support giving out duff information.
AC disconnect should have no effect on that board. It is the biggest baloney I have heard from a manufacturer. What if someone pulls the meter on the other side of your wall? What if the transformer blows that feeds your house? I'm going to say this is either a horrible design or someone not being able to say "we don't know".
My other take is that provisioning and setting up this Solar Edge setup is extremely complicated. I was considering Solar Edge but ended up going with Sol-Ark and I am very glad I did.
I agree it's complete baloney. It's also a demonstration of how instant messaging keeps a permanent record of that baloney being said. Honestly I got the impression that the calibre of 1st line support was very basic, and their language was very "lazy", somewhat like speaking to a teenager who doesn't assemble a sentence together properly. I certainly wasn't talking to an electronics / systems engineer, and their "seniors" as they call them probably weren't either.
I've read several comments saying that it's put them off choosing a SolarEdge system. So whilst SolarEdge has the defective board and has every right not to tell me what actually went wrong, it's probably in their best interest to go on the record and correct the comments that were made to me by first line support. Because this is bad publicity for them.
But the setup isn't complicated. Essentially the software settings are: Country, Import/Export Meter, Zigbee Module, Peripheral Zigbee devices. Once that's done, the export limitation was specific to my installation.
Battery config was essentially add the device, firmware download, self test, switch on self consumption.
The main trouble is that the natural flow through the menus doesn't match the natural flow through the manuals. The manuals are poor and therefore it's easy to get wrong. This is especially true for setting up the zigbee module - there was no such entity called "home automation", which caused some head scratching.
Communications wiring: The official manuals from the same company tells you to do something else. RS485 communications either work or they don't, and I think they'd do well to replace it with ethernet/wifi/powerline bus communications.
In part 1 of my review, the battery commissioning failed because comms to the existing modbus meter had dropped out, even though it was on another RS485 communications channel. I've never seen that with industrial equipment. All channels are completely independant.
So even if you don't have a battery pack you have to turn the unit off 5 mins before switching the mains power off or you destroy the unit? Who on earth designed that and then allowed it to go into a product? As an electroncs designer i would have been sacked for that.
Have they never heard of a power cut? we are lucky to go a week without some sort of quick power flash , at least enough to have to reset the clock an the oven which takes several seconds of outage.
So thats another one off the options for solar, i am giving up on the idea ad sod the planet.
I think the Solaredge conversation i had with the says more about the calibre of the support team, rather than the quality of the actual electronics. The demeanour of their language included a lot of slang terms (such as “bro”), and was rather unprofessional. I don’t think the support team actually knew how their product works at an electronics level. I think they are actually making incorrect inferences from what their support procedures say. I’d say the failure was actually software corruption, which would be totally recoverable assuming there’s a BIOS that permits booting from the built in USB port. The cause would be identical however: improper shutdown.
However despite suggesting this to them, they never offered any backup recovery files or procedures.
@@anthonydyer3939
thanks , like the show by the way. I think my issue is mainly with something that you have to turn off 5 mins before you turn the mains off , and can be damaged if you don't.Bit of a problem in an emergency and power cuts. It may not be an issue if you dont have the battery and obviously if you have a battery that can continue to run the inverter in event of a mains failure it is not a problem.
Sar peleas jop I'm solar engineering master and elections master
You should be able to cut the AC regardless that's a poor design
I completely agree. Any electrician working on any other part of your house will concern themselves only with the dual supply to the consumer unit. They won't concern themselves with how your inverter works. They only concern themselves with making their circuit safe to work on.
@@anthonydyer3939 yes and then your in for another board
I have to say that this design is fairly poor - if an (accidental) wrong disconnect can fry a board it is simply designed wrong, especially with the switches on the outside of the unit.